The Race to Nowhere in Youth Sports

Just pointing out among the anecdotes on this thread, it's still a fact that the VAST majority of major leaguers were already studs by 12u.

I think every person on here with a 10/11/12/13 year old kid searched out this site because they think their kid is awesome, and I am no exception, this is HSbaseballweb and our kids aren't there yet!

The wonderful thing about this site are people like TPM and RJM who say things like "wait and see", and "I don't want to hear about any miraculous thing a TWELVE year old has done."  While this aggravates me sometimes they are right.

  I know what I think of my kid, I know what his coaches and other coaches have said but the "old timers" are 100% correct that this is a wait and see game and it keeps me and others grounded on here, which helps me keep my kid grounded.  We are in the middle of the hype, we ARE drinking the kool-aid!  If I ever think for a moment that maybe just maybe my 12 year old MIGHT be a MLB player I can come on this site and get swatted back down and reminded that he is ONLY twelve!  I don't know if he is done growing, I don't know if he has weak knees, I don't know what the stress of throwing will do to his arm...he's a kid who doesn't shave and is not in high school, so he's pretty much rubber at the moment...that won't last!

So, while I argue and defend I appreciate being kept grounded and am not drinking as much of the kool-aid as my parental counterparts on the team, so thank you!

roothog66,

This is a business, a very big one. Sometimes and very often the organization doesnt always make the right decision but the player is afraid to say no.

This happened to son, coming off a surgery they said would take 3 months, they pushed him through the season.  Then in the fall when all he wanted to do was come home they made him go to AZFL. OK so the pay was not too shabby and he only put in 9 innings but he was wiped out. Come spring he had some issues again.

Oh, don't get me wrong -- I mostly agree with you. I just provided a few of those lists so people could look back. There are plenty of anecdotes on both sides -- heck, from the 2002 list of honorable mentions there was Eric Hosmer and then there was Aaron Alvey, who as Baseball America noted "Alvey, at 5-foot-7 and 175 pounds, is perceived as more of an early bloomer."

In my (limited) experience, the move from a LL field to a 60-90 field is a huge jump for some kids -- almost like an entirely different sport, so I don't put too much stock in 12U stuff.  

Yeah. Some organizations are better than others in this area.

Keep in mind, too that this list is the absolute cream of the crop. The consistency drops drastically as you move down the ladder. Point is, few players, studs or otherwise, will ever fill the major league dream, but those who do were almost all recognizable studs by 12u. Also, it's not all about size. I said earlier, that in my experience, the studs at 12u make up the biggest percentage of the high school starters in their communities when they get to that age. However, a lot of those "studs" weren't studs simply because they were early bloomers. Many, in fact, weren't early bloomers - just very good ball players.

Correct. Were the vast majority of MLB players studs at age 12? Yes! 

Do the vast majority of 12U studs end up as college or pro players? No!

As a result, there are plenty of anecdotes on both sides. 

This is about being 12 not a professional bb player. And the same principle should not apply, thats what I think that you are missing.

But hey, if that is what you feel you need to do, thats your option, however you and I do not have to agree.

^^^^^^

This!!!!

Well said, Scotty

I believe, as a parent, that I had a responsibility to expose my children to many different sports/activities.  Baseball, football, basketball, swimming, soXXer, shooting, dance, drill team, camping, fishing, hunting, piano, golf, guitar...the list could go on and on. Most of these fell by the waysides. Sometimes due to lack of ability and sometimes due to lack of interest. Some stuck. We all have a tendency to stick with what we like and normally what we are better at.

Give your children opportunities...they will figure it out!

Nice work JBB, who would have thought this would have 6 pages of responses. Maybe we all should get a life. All good!

5 weeks till the season starts! Good luck to all!

In our case this is rest.

Fall season ends middle of October.  There is no activity until the middle of November. About 30 days of nothing for everyone.  Pitchers are shut down until Jan 1.  There is an optional camp in the middle of November to the middle of December that focuses mostly on flexibility, strength and speed and agility.  All players are given an off season strength and conditioning program and are expected to follow it.  The workouts are designed to help strengthen and repair the tendon and muscles.  Somewhere around the middle to end of December players are allowed back into the cages.  Starting Jan 1, pitchers are expected to start light throwing.  Long toss, etc.  Nothing too intense.  This is gradually increased throughout Jan and Feb.  

This program was developed with the help of some folks who work on strength and conditioning with college and MLB players.  Our program is known for the quality of its pitching.  Yet the folks running the program are very insistent that a pitcher does not throw a ball, even just a light toss back to someone for 3 months.  Catchers have similar rules as well.

My take on the "Race to ?" issue is that parents should use fitness and sports to promote their children's development through four stages, which overlap considerably:

The first stage with all kids is to give them a good foundation for lifetime physical fitness.  Promote active routines. Give them positive experiences and teach basic skills in enough sports and activities to make it likely they'll stick with some of them and be healthier, happier adults. 

The second stage is to give them the opportunity to learn the character and life lessons (teamwork, discipline, self control, sportsmanship) that can be learned through sports.  These lessons can also be learned through lots of non-sports activities, so kids may start veering away from sports, which is okay as long as the first stage took hold.

The third stage is to give them some say in choosing their activities.  Around late elementary school to middle school, I introduced the rule to my kids that they can choose the activities for each season (within reason and family resources),  but they must commit to meet all team obligations for the entire season.  As my kids arrived at this age, I found myself on the sidelines of sports I knew nothing about (cheer, volleyball, gymnastics, field hockey).  It is good and healthy for kids to try several different activities for just one or two seasons each as they figure out what they like and what they're good at.

The fourth stage is to encourage them to strive for excellence in some activity of their own choosing.  This is where some of my kids chose distinctly non-sports directions. This is the stage--and kids reach it at different times, normal encompasses a broad range centered aroud early high school years--where I think it's okay for parents to start making the money and time commitments for personal trainers and serious travel teams and specialized coaching.  My view is that the child must totally own this decision.  It just doesn't work unless the goals and dreams come from inside the child. 

I learned this lesson after my oldest daughter, who took up running as a "third stage" activity, something she was curious about but not committed to.  She showed a lot of early promise and emerged as the number one varsity runner on her high school cross country team as a freshman.  Unwisely, I pushed her to stick with track.  She grudgingly agreed to go out for track in the spring, but her heart wasn't in it, she stopped having fun, and she stopped improving.  I let her choose her activities after that unhappy season.  She is now a strong, fit, athletic woman of 26 with a passion for rock climbing.  Her goal.  Definitely not mine.  She loves it and she excels at it. (And none of you dads want to arm wrestle this lady who spends so much time hanging by her finger tips!)

I get concerned when I see parents steering the selection which activities their children will pursue excellence in before they have helped their children progress through the preliminary stages.

This approach does have risks.  Kids are people with minds of their own.  They may not choose what you love, but that gives you a chance to demonstrate that you love them more than your favorite sport.  I have four boys but only one baseball player, and the son who has so far produced grandchildren has no interest in baseball at all.  But that's okay.

CaCO3Girl,

My son is a few years ahead of yours.  At 10 he was on a travel team like the one you described.  A lot of off season training.  Hitting, defense, catching (position) and speed/agility.  While it certainly was a lot, it was the right program at the right time for him.  It changed the way he played the game.  During that year, a team of misfits and "rejects" became a very good team. 

If that kind of program works for someone, I have no issue with it.  I would rather have the kid engaged in physical activity than sitting on the couch playing xbox.  Through the years, he has kept up a similar schedule.  HOWEVER, he still played his other sport -- basketball.  At times, basketball interfered with baseball and he went to basketball because that was "in season."  When he got into middle school basketball, he dropped speed/agility altogether because 2+ hrs a day, 5 days a week of basketball took care of that.  And in all honesty, that is when he became "faster" because there was no way 1-2 weekly speed/agility sessions were going to compete with basketball 5 days a week. 

So my position is sport specific training is fine but has to be based on the alternative.  If it replaces xbox, go for it.  If it replaces another in season sport, I would choose the sport.   

It has been said by many that baseball only is a mistake, that as parents we MUST open our children to other experiences.

What would your advice be to a parent like me who when their kid was 6 I said "You need to be in a sport, I don't care which one it is, but I want to see you on a team so pick one".  The 6 year old said "I want to try baseball"...so I bought the walmart glove and bat and found a baseball park near me.  The kid took to it like a fish to water, he looked very comfortable on the field and begs to do it again in the Spring...I have offered other team sports...and while he plays basketball/football/lacrosse/soccer with his friends but he has stated time and time again over the last 6 years that he doesn't want to play ANYTHING else but baseball.  He comes home with stories about the gym coach trying to recruit him for football...AGAIN...he laughs when he tells the stories about being respectful but telling the coach he ONLY wants to play baseball, but thank you.  I tell him at least once a quarter "You know you don't have to play baseball, if you want to become great in something else we can do that too, just speak up, I never want you to look back and say WE made you play baseball"...his response is always "****laughing***** I know Mom, I really do want to play baseball, and only baseball, but thanks", and I follow that up with a "Let me know if you ever change your mind".  And FYI this is his first year on a team that is playing a full fall and Spring schedule, so there was opportunity in the past to play anything else he wanted.

Is it bad parenting to not force the kid to play something else?

That's a good question. My kid has always played multiple sports, but didn't want to play basketball this year. I practically twisted his arm and made him play. We're in a small town and he's a very good basketball player, but just doesn't love it enough to think it worth all the time with practice, etc. The basketball program isn't very good here. Personally my son thinks that's a good thing. Half the baseball team plays basketball and if they were good enough to make the playiffs, it would extend basketball through the first three weeks of baseball practice. Problem is that the HS basketball coach is pretty excited about him (averages 11pts/9 rbs on JV). However, he's already complaining that he doesn't want to play next year.

Hi CaCo3girl,

I've followed many of your posts and admire that you've embraced this great resource.  However, you are still fighting the "keep up with the Joneses" syndrome and I would encourage that you continue forward with an open mind in that regard.

I am another parent on the back end of the journey, my youngest playing his third year of college ball.  I also see things from the perspective of a HS coach, ex-club coach and one who works large youth tourneys.

I strongly second the view that you will look back at this time and wish you insisted he do more 12 yr old things.  I second that you will laugh at yourself how much you drank the Kool-Aid.  It is evident that your son loves the game enough that he will work plenty hard at it to reach his potential.  There is also much merit to the genetic aspect - he does not have to work all year to get there.  The further down the baseball road he goes, the more pressure will come for him to play at all times from all directions.  Then later, starting with HS, it becomes more and more an every day job. At 12, that notion should not enter his mind.  There will likely be times during the recruiting process and college years where he has no choice but to play close to all year.  At this early age, if he is over-the-top in love with the game and good at it, you have to be the regulator.  You have to keep things in perspective for his current age.  You have to be able to say no and lay out some down time, some family fun time, some preserve-the-arm time, some life balance time. You forced him to pick a sport at six and it worked out pretty well.  IMO, yes, you should have him pick a few other activities or interests to provide balance and a physical and mental break from baseball.  One of the residual effects is likely to be even more excitement when he gets to step back on the field.

And, since you asked about parenting... 

Make sure you enjoy every moment of him being 12, then 13, ...  Make sure you recognize that the mom and dad sitting next to you at the game who's son is only an average baseball player love their son just as much and he is surely just as special but in other ways with other talents and character traits.  Make sure that holding your son to your set of standards for being a solid citizen is never compromised due to his athletic accomplishments.  These are some of the common challenges I see with parents of exceptional athletes.

Keep learning.  You are being a great parent for caring so much.

Wow, what a great message thread.  Six pages and for the most part, everybody is pretty civil and all offer great points of view.  Awesome!

No matter what your kid's ability, take time to enjoy the ride and use lessons learned on the field to re-enforce life's lessons.  There is no better sport than BASEBALL for that purpose!

I still don't understand that out of what seems like 40 different signals his coach just did he can pick out the ones relevant to him, but can he remember to take out the trash...NOOOOO!!!!

Look no one is calling anyone a bad parent. And no one has all the answers. My youngest never wanted to play anything but baseball. In fact he never wanted to do anything unless it centered around the game. I had the experience of coaching hundreds of kids before him. I wanted him to have balance in his life. So encouraged him to try other sports. Took him hunting, fishing and many activities. When we had down time I steered the conversations away from baseball as much as I could. I didn't critique his games I let him ask me. Kids that love the game and put so much effort into something don't need the added pressure of a parent. They need to know they are much more to you than a baseball player. Because in their baseball world that's who they are. A baseball player. And their status in that world they live in is very important to them. 

After my sons college games it was good game can we eat later on? I don't care if he was 0-4 or 4-4 that was it. Over dinner I never brought it up unless he said something. It was on purpose because I just wanted to see my son. Not the baseball player. When you make it all about baseball that's all you will have. Then what kind of relationship will you have when the baseball is over? Its tough enough on a grown man to deal with this stuff much less a 12 year old. 

Let him drive it. But don't let it get out of control because many times it does. There is a reason many kids give it up before they reach their full potential in the game. There is a reason many Dads and Moms struggle with the post baseball relationship. My son now coaches in college. He calls from time to time. Comes home when he can. We have an awesome relationship. 

I have seen so many people who feel they have to get ahead or stay up with other people. You can't make chicken salad out of you know what. If your son has the talent, drive, work ethic to be a good player just support him and enjoy it. Don't think you have to train a 12 year old like a 18 year old. You might just train him out of being what he could have been. Many players don't get serious until the HS years when they are mature enough to handle the mental and physical demands. I know because I won a lot of games with these kids and they went along way in the game. Best of luck.

...or put his clothes in the hamper?!  Seriously, it's right there next to his stinky socks and yesterday's workout clothes.  Geez.

Some of the Caribbean players will play a portion of the season out of respect for their town or country. Otherwise, the MLBers are typically players who missed a good portion of the MLB season with injuries.

The problem is the delusional parents who think their 12yo is the next Harper or DeShields. 99.99% are wrong.

Yes most 18yo studs were 12yo studs** . But a lot of 12yo studs don't become 18yo studs.

** A lot of 12yo studs aren't studs in the true sense of the word. But their parents think they are. So they place their kids in extensive training.

I put together a 13u USSSA Majors travel team from the best of our LL district all star players. Over two years I saw a lot of LL all stars excel. There were plenty I was reasonably sure wouldn't be high school players. I made enemies not selecting several all stars from our LL that won the district. (everyone played LL or Ripken in our area when my son was twelve) 

I have two kids five years apart. As a preteen my daughter was a mediocre to below average athlete. It was surprising given my wife's and my athletic background. It wasn't lack of ability. She was timid. Her best sport was softball because two players don't physically compete for the ball. She was above average but didn't standout as a preteen softball player. Despite her timidness she also played soccer, basketball and field hockey. By the time my son was seven whatever sport he was playing I heard, "You won't have to pay for his college."

Both kids ended up in the same place, playing college baseball/softball. Both kids lettered in multiple varsity sports in high school. They absolutely took different routes in terms of their ability. My son played travel everything (in addition to rec) starting at nine. My daughter couldn't have made a middle school team or travel team in anything but softball even if I paid off the coach. My son was always dragging me out to practice. My daughter never did. But once she grew she stopped being timid. She became an athletic terror. She knew how to play the sports. By high school the skill and passion kicked in.

Neither kid played anything but the sport in season until high school. Neither kid had any professionally paid training until high school. Once I saw the potential in high school they received strength, speed and agility training. They received fine tuning for their hitting. I suppose I could have spent all the money on training when the kids were ten. My son was already the best athlete in his grade. Besides, who trains to prepare for middle school sports? My daughter probably would have resented being pushed and quit.

Who said that baseball is a mistake. BTW, the concept at 6 should be about learning the team concept, sharing a goal and learning to take insrtuction from other adults.

Nothing about competition.

This is where I think that youth sports get whacky, in t ball they have travel teams.

I know this was not the case fpr you, but thats why I put son in tball, not to be the next phenom, but he had skills other than baseball to work on.

I have seen lots of families chase those wins in rec ball, and think that they were really doing something when they went 12-4 in a local league against rec competition. Kids that were aggressive athletic players stayed in the weaker leagues to be left behind. But at least mom and dad can brag about how they beat Barney's Body Shop 3 years in a row, that's really important!

No, it has 228 replies.  

Let me ask this question... if at 6 years old your son came to you and said "I don't want to learn science, only math. Math all the time." Would you have been okay with it? 

Let me ask this question... if at 6 years old your son came to you and said "I don't want to learn science, only math. Math all the time." Would you have been okay with it? 

Boom!  There it is. 

I never considered allowing my kids to play one sport as preteens. If you asked them what was their favorite sport as preteens the answer was easy to predict. Just look at the calendar. Whatever sport they were playing at that time would be the answer. Even as they were working towards becoming college baseball/softball players basketball was just as big of a deal to them.

I never considered making my son play a sport he didn't want to play.  I have offered countless times, given him examples of his friends playing other sports, but if the kid ONLY wants to play baseball I didn't want to bully him into another sport.  I look at that like the parents that bully their kid into playing baseball because the parents were good at it.

I feel awful.  My wife and I sent our only son to a high school that has a "Compulsory Sports" policy.  As a frosh YOU MUST play 3 sports, Soph and Junior years YOU MUST play 2 sports.  As a senior YOU MUST play 1 sport.  I'm all for it and the school believes participating in sports is part of a well-rounded education.

Heck, when I was a kid my folks sent me to a K-8 school where playing 3-sports per year was MANDATORY grades 4-8.  There is an argument to be made that a wide array of sports is as important as a wide array of academic subjects.

Of course there is a limit to the forcing of a child to play a sport.  But you get what I'm saying.  The idea "forcing" a kid is not as cruel as one might think.

I can't say that I've ever heard of a mandaroty sports policy. Were these intramural sports? I mean, is this basically a P.E. requirment?

I went to a private school one year that required everyone to either play a sport or be involved in an activity (band, chorus, school play, etc.) every season.

Our school does that. Lot of kids in choir. I just wondered because I would hate to caoch at a school with a policy like that where I had to deal with a group of kids, half who probably didn't want to be there.

 Balil, that who!! Sorry, couldn't resist.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/...20141124-column.html

I am an advocate of multi-sports but this article doesn't do a very good job of addressing the problems.  The focus is on Giancarlo Stanton and other star athletes who were studs in HS.  Sure, everyone will make things work for the studs.  And of course they will make the teams regardless of participation in other sports.  The real challenge for student athletes, parents, coaches and AD's lies with the majority of athletes who are not stud athletes and may, in fact, be losing ground/ falling behind others and having to try to catch up when their second and third season sports roll around.