Theory hitting vs. Practical hitting

Is this popping up caused by hitting the bottom of the ball or an extreme upper-cut swing?

I can't see how a swing can be initiated without the 'hands dropping' to get the bat down into the zone or to the desired contact point.

There are many theories concerning hitting but only one high quality swing.

The great majority of swings being taught are flawed beyond reason. They have the hands dragging the bat through the zone side ways before bringing the bat forward. By this time, the hands are about even with the front hip or front foot as the bat head is entering the hitting zone.

The classic swing would have the batter attempting to make contact directly in front of his body. (Swing to your belly button) This is where the old expression comes from to 'watch the bat hit the ball'.

Contact is in a good line of sight. The swing is compact. The swing rides through the hitting zone for the greatest duration.

There are other fine points that apply to each individual such as a more closed or open stance.

The sequence is in my opinion

1) Develop stance establishing greatest potential energy

2) Power the bat down short to the zone and contact point.

3) Allow the hands to follow through.

This method helps to establish good contact when swinging and helps eliminate strike outs.

quote:

I can't see how a swing can be initiated without the 'hands dropping' to get the bat down into the zone or to the desired contact point.

Quincy I'm talking more along the lines of on the stride / trigger the hands go from a nice natural position up around the shoulder area to dropping down to an area just below the chest. All this movement is done before the batter starts the swing to release all the power in the swing. Basically his hands take an "L" shaped path to the ball.

What you're talking about is what I call driving the hands to the zone to hit. I don't want to take the chance of using the word drop to describe these two motions - the L shape on stride / trigger and the bringing the hands down to the hitting zone - in case they may associate the L shape as being good. I like saying drive because it gives the impression of generating power rather than getting through the zone.

Probably a little nitpicky in wording but none of my players have ever had a problem with it once they understood the two concepts of hand movement - one being bad and the other being good.

Hitting is very very difficult to talk about on a website---what is needed is visual and actual with a player--every player is different -- for me the best way is one on one with the instructor on the field or in the cage--I actually like live BP on the field so every pitch is different interms of location and movement

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I actually like live BP on the field so every pitch is different in terms of location and movement

I like it all. When I first see a kid I like tee work and soft toss so it's easier to isolate different areas. I think live BP (with a pitcher who can locate, hopefully) is the most beneficial overall.

While both approaches can be effective, the 'L' swing is later to the zone and only allows contact in front of the plate.

If you look at video or photos of hand position as the bat head comes forward, you can see what I'm saying.

The classic swing brings the bat down to waist level most often since that is where the average pitch would be located. It also allows the continuation down on a low pitch. Or if a higher pitch, the bat is still flexible enough to swat the ball to the outfield.

I prefer BP on the field also. You get instant feed back as to where the ball is traveling as compared to the 'feel' of good contact in the cage.

Coach2709,

The drop you speak of with the player popping up...not talking about a hitch with the hands during the stride that doesn't come back up early enough but rather a kid that drops his hands straight down while loading if I read you right. And if I'm still reading right, you don't want the kids to think of an "L shape" in the swing or handpath.

The broom drill does work with kids whose handpath is wrong and gives quick feedback when they are wrong or right.

****While I personally never liked a hitch in the swing,there have been alot of really great MLB hitters with a hitch. The key with all was when they started and finished the hitch.

While field BP is best, can really be hard in HS when you have Fr/JV/V squads to get time. We have to really stagger practice start times to get adequate fielld time. Varsity wins when push comes to shove. With the rain we've had, cage BP has had to suffice alot.

I'm like TRhit on this, web discussions on hitting without video is tough. Even with video everybody tends to have certain keys they look for; sometimmes everybody understands and sometimes everybody goes ??????

Quincy touched on what I consider to be a very important point.....And, nobody even gave him a mention for saying it....

Quincy, I noticed and I agree with you that the hands must drop in the swing....I do not consider that a swing flaw....I don't even look for what many call flaws in the swing....

I look at the sequencing of the body....How, and just as importantly, when do the body movements produce torque in the hips and hands.....Stretch can be substituted for the word, torque, if you wish....

How and when torque is produced also allows the body to hold the stretch by keeping the back hip and hands "loaded", as many call it....

Bluedog,

I like it...keep going. It's a good start.

Last sentence...not bad but I know you've got more to say than that. Let'r rip.

Coach2709, drills can help hitters to hit better....I'm not saying you were wrong....You are right....

Here's what I'm saying about drills....They are a quick fix, or a band-aid approach, to helping a player swing a bat better....

My agenda in teaching a player how to swing a bat is to get them as close to their potential as I possibly can, not just to get them better.....

So, High School Coaches are scrambling to get their players to hit better on a limited time basis....And, they're working with a team of players pretty much all at one time....

I'm working with a single player at a time and have as much time as I need....

Now, perhaps you need drills to coach your players....I don't....

My point in all this is that I don't understand it when Coaches come on here and bash me, saying things like you did on the other thread....This is a hitting thread and hitting is my interest....I don't make it a point to post on the Coach's thread about defense and other points of the game I don't really have a big interest in....

I understand why TRhit does this sort of stuff....His life goal is to follow me around and bash me....This stems from stuff a long time ago on here....I'm OK with it....And, it makes him happy.....

If I can help a player get some playing time because he can outhit his teammates because of something I taught him, he has learned baseball and life lessons, has he not?

Look, I quit trying to talk hitting with Coaches a long time ago....I simply found it a waste of my time and effort....I really am trying to help players and parents...

Bluedog,

I'm sure everybody applauds your intent in helping players and parents and the fact you work with individual students one on one. Often takes people other than the coach or parent to make inroads with a player and help fix their problems

Our collective issue is isn't the desire to help but the "how". I seriously doubt your are as cryptic with your students as your are on this board and don't simply say "sequence better" or "gotta improve your swing plane" to your students. What we are curious about is how do you go about getting your student to sequence better or improve his swing plane.

That is all anyone has really ever asked.

You say you don't like discussing hitting with coaches. Thats fine but there are still parents/players reading that may need more guidance than one line comments or catch phrases to accomplish what you claim to desire. Talk with them instead but not at them and you'll go along way to actually helping those you say you want to help.

Coach2709, perhaps you haven't read much of what I've posted....

I've explained stuff awhole lot on here over a period of time....Maybe you're just listening to the few who instigate mischief on here, I don't know....

That's all they're here for.....Not to help anyone....Many people don't post here, anymore, because of them.....

Wow I have been swamped the past two days. I don't know why but for some reason my school thinks I should still teach when baseball season is in full swing. Too bad I can't trust the kids to grade their own papers to help save time

I'm going to try and get back with everyone who has said something to me and hopefully I won't leave anyone out.

S. Abrams

I think we are on the same page in terms of the hand drop. It's definately not a hitch but a significant dropping to where you end up losing a lot of torque due to everything out of whack plus the body is no longer really providing the power.

I'm with you that I'm not a fan of a hitch but it can be a good tool / adjustment if you got a guy with super quick hands.

I also agree that getting on a website and writing about hitting is a very, very difficult thing to do. We each have our own way of describing things and we each have different levels of ability to explain things through writing.

With that in mind I ask Bluedog and Quincy what do you guys mean exactly by the hands have to drop in the swing? If you guys are talking about the downward path taken to get the barrel into the hittng zone then yes I will agree with you on that point and clarify that's what I call driving the hands - not dropping. Now if you are talking about something that Barry Bonds and a few others do then I understand what is going on and why they do it - I just think it's a terrible thing to teach a high school kid. They are trying to create more of an upward swing path to generate power / distance. They are power hitters and should do that but they are also freaks of nature that can do things that most people cannot do. That is why I believe this swing should not be taught to HS kids. They lack the overall strength and ability to master this swing.

In the other thread I said there is no such thing as the perfect swing and I still stand by that statement but I will add that each player can have a perfect swing just for them. Each player has their own strengths and weaknesses and therefore have to make slight adjustments to their swing. Overall the constants in the swing are the same.

Bluedog

As for the drills there is no way in the world they are band aids or quick fixes or not letting players reach their fullest potential. The concept / idea that I'm hearing you say is that when a hitter practices drills the effect is only going to be temporary. Would you say that is correct? If not please clarify for me. For right now I'm going to go with the assumption that I'm right.

Hitting is about trying to repeat the same mechanics over and over and over each time you hit. For whatever reason(s) a hitter will end up developing a flaw / bad habit in their swing. The drill is there for helping to correct that flaw when needed. There is no method in the world that will stop flaws from developing. They are going to happen because guys get tired through the season or small nagging injuries and start doing things differently. The drills are the best way to reinforce the proper mechanics to fix the flaws or help stave them off.

Simply - why do MLB players do drills before BP before games during the season and during the offseason? They know it works and if the best hitters in the game think drills work then it's good enough for me.

BP on the field is wonderful if you are getting ready for a game, fine tuning your swing or maintaining your swing - it is not the place where you go to fix flaws. The cage and hitting stations is the place to go to fix flaws or teach a swing to someone picking up the game. Teaching / fixing require massive number of swings and you can't get them taking BP on a field. But you can get them hitting off a tee, doing soft toss, front screen toss, whiffle balls and things like that. These drills (when done correctly) create muscle memory so the body can take over when out on the field hitting or taking BP on the field.

Bluedog I agree with S. Abrams in that you probably do have some bits of knowledge to add to the mix but you have to realize that your way isn't the only way just as mine isn't as well. On here you say things that are not clear nor precise enough to be of any help. Plus you criticize people like myself saying we are doing things wrong although overall I've been pretty happy with the way my teams hit the ball. Now that implies that what I do works although you think what I'm doing is not making them as good as what you could do with them. You give the impression that if a player follows what you teach then they can be this awesome hitter but I can't see where you have posted anything that would indicate that. All you do is say a bunch of stuff using big words that most people won't understand in terms of hitting. I don't care what others have said about you because I'm going to make my own assesment of who you are and what I think of you.

In all honesty you sound like Yardbird in the pitching forum who happens to be a Mike Marshall disciple. You're not as bad as he is but there are similarities. You get on here and say a bunch of stuff using big words that are difficult to understand. You act like you have all the answers although very few people do / follow the same advice you give. Lastly, you can't / don't list anybody of relevance that has been helped / taught / coached by you so we can see if what you do works.

You said you don't like discussing hitting with coaches but only with parents / players - is that because they may not really know anything so they listen to you whereas a coach knows better?

A high school coach has his hands tied so much by state rules that they can't offer the amount of help needed in order to maximize what needs to be taught. A player who wants to go to the next level has to get outside help from a good private team and / or personal coach. I have no problem with personal coaches and never have as long as they know what they are doing and don't undermine what I teach. Every kid who's played for me that had a personal coach helped them to reinforce or add to what I taught.

If you've been successful in what you do then that is awesome because that means players have advanced in the game. That is one of (and quite possibly) the only thing we have in common - we both want our players to advance and succeed. I know what I've taught and still teach works. I don't see me making wholesale changes to anything I do unless I feel confident that the change will make for better hitters. If someone gets on here and would rather listen to you instead of me that's cool - I have no problem with that. I still hope that the player gets better.

I think 'stretch' better explains the load. The muscles used to bring the bat forward should be stretched by the opposing muscles so that the greatest effect can be gained by the subsequent 'stretched' muscles contracting in the swing.

Torque and torsion are two expressions of external forces affecting the center. Since no external force is used in the load, I think the expression is misleading. Torque is generated by the bat in the swing causing the followthrough.

Good hand-eye coordination makes hitting easier. In some hitters, the swing plane or path may lose the parabola desired. This will cause less accuracy and a longer time to bring the bat to the ball. A sharp parabolic swing on a consistent plane is most effective.

Coaching should be a four year journey rather than single year uses of talent available. Depending on the established program, a freshman could be introduced to the more effective swing. The sophomore should be using the swing and improvements can be made. Juniors and seniors should be ready to face the hardest throwing pitchers the district or league has to oppose them.

quote:

You said you don't like discussing hitting with coaches but only with parents / players - is that because they may not really know anything so they listen to you whereas a coach knows better?

That's quite a knock on parents who spend alot of time researching and learning hitting technique to help their kids....

Actually, there are many parents who study hitting on boards like this one, and many others, who I believe are more knowledgeable on hitting than the coaches their kids play for....

All you have to do is listen to them post on here to know that......

Of the ten most knowledgeable hitting people I know, two are coaches, and eight are parents...

If I taught one of your players, it would not be to reinforce what you teach...

Next time you see me, Power and Mr. Tewks strike up a conversation on here, enter the fray....After all, it could get interesting...

Bluedog,

Obviously, you have issues and differences with the traditional methods and drills coaches use. You say that if you taught one of Coach2709's players you would not reinforce what he teaches....no problem with that at all as he readily admitted he shares your desire that players improve.

Instead of Coach2709's methods/drills and what he teaches, what would you teach and how would you teach it to one of his players? "What" is nice but the "how" is what is ultimately needed for the player to improve. What can you share to one of the coach's players or other players reading this board?

Sequencing obviously will be a key area you probably focus on based on your previous post. How do you go about instructing the decent HS hitter to get better by improving his sequencing? That just one area but I'm sure you have a few key things you look for...what are they and how do you help players in those areas?

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:

The purpose of drills are to

2 - work on developing a shorter stroke

Why would I want a "shorter stroke"? What is different about this swing, exactly? Are you just fixing casting? Or something else?

A short stroke is a faster stroke, able to catch up with a 90+ pitch after sitting on a 83mph Change.

In order to recognize the difference between the two in a game situation, you need to be able to wait and read the pitch. If you wait, you better have a short quick stroke to turn on an inside FB.

foridafan,

Excellent example of the practical side of hitting.

Worthy of an "Atta Babe".

Even tougher is looking for 90+ and getting that 80 mph change. Trevor Hoffman has had a real nice career making hitters look really bad with what, a 78 mph change. Vapor locked more hitters than I care to count over the years.

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
A short stroke is a faster stroke, able to catch up with a 90+ pitch after sitting on a 83mph Change.

So what drill do I use to develop a faster stroke? Is this the same as faster bat speed? Or something different?

Can I get in here?
The problem I have with H.S. coaches, is that they often times (not always) act like they know more than everyone else because they played college baseball or because they're a H.S. coach and you're not. If I was a H.S. coach, I would continue to learn and be open to changing from what I was taught if it is better. Most CAN'T do this. I can. If today, I see something that makes sense, I'll look into it, and possibly add it or change what I'm doing. Basically, I have no ego. I want my son and the others I work with to reach their potential regardless of it being the way I was taught or not. Period.
I believe we all have a "swing". I prefer to tweak each kids swing(if possible). I believe some are naturally better than others.I'm not gonna hold them back by forcing them to swing the same way as the others. I'm not gonna take a big strong kid and teach him linear, swing down, put the ball on the ground mechanics and watch him ground out every at bat. If he wants to play baseball, his potential is to hit the ball a long way beause we don't want him clogging up the bases if he does get on.

I think H.S. coaches should coach the parents in their community because they ARE ALLOWED to work with the kids all year! That's what our H.S. coach is doing. He told us (mid school coaches) that WE can work all year, HE CANT. This is what I want them to know when they get here!
I think most H.S. coaches really get off on teaching kids THEIR WAY and seeing the kids have success. Nothing wrong with the intention to help the kids, but it should be about THE KIDS, NOT THE COACH. If we have a move-in come to our school and he can hit the ball but it's a little different than we typically teach, we don't tell him " No son. Do it like this." We watch him as much as possible and see what makes this kid tick. Hell, we might learn something ourselves! Basically, if it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT! You see, I get off on helping kids succeed PERIOD. If I make a small suggestion and it helps, we're BOTH happy.
Now, about those pop-ups discussed earlier, I think this is caused a lot of times by the swing plane of the bat not matching the plane of the pitch. I tell the kids, "you aren't swinging on the same plane and 'this is what it looks like'. Usually in about 5 swings they are hitting line drives. It usually doesn't take a drill, but can be accomplished in the cage.Point is, it MAY well be the position of the hands that's causing this, but I find it easier to explain what the affect is and what it looks like in the big picture, then they correct the "hands problem" themselves. Just a thought.

A faster stroke will always begin with hands and is not a purely rotational swing where the hands and arms are "along for the ride".

A faster stroke takes a direct path to the ball in as straight a path as possible. If the ball is outside, a straight path which will take the ball to the right half of the field.

The drill that I would recommend is called "Dynamic Pepper".

Dynamic Pepper is a drill that involves a person soft tossing to a hitter roughly 3 feet away and hitting into a net. It involves 3 sequenses of events and a finnish for each pitch location.

1st location is middle. Ball is tossed to the hitter over the middle of the plate. Using HANDS and ARMS ONLY the hitter is to make firm contact with the ball and drive it straight into the net. When the bat makes contact with the ball the hitter freezes. No follow through, no shoulder turn, no hip movement.

Just the hands and the arm directly to contact and then freeze. The ball should jump off the bat.

After a bit the forearms will begin to "Burn".
So, the ball is tossed and using just arms and hands at 75%/85%/90% the ball is driven into the net freezing on contact.

Drill 2 requires that the hitter take the same toss and swing all the way through, again without turning shoulders or using any lower body movement. Again, the toss is to the middle of the plate and MUST be driven back up the middle.

Drill 3 brings the upper half into the equation. The ball again is tossed to the same part of the plate. The hitter uses his hands and arms to drive the ball, but now allows the upper body to rotate at the core. Still no lower half. Care MUST be taken to prevent the upper half to turn before the hands begin to move to point of contact.

Drill 4 finally brings the lower half into play. Sit on or keep your weight on the back leg. HANDS AND HIP NEED TO BE CONNECTED. When the hands go, they line up with the hip, and the hands and hip go together. Again, care must be taken to not allow the shoulder to fly open or the "Torso" to open up prematurely.

When you put it all together you FREEZE at finnish and check your position. The "Powerline" is checked, the front leg should "Post" and there should be a anglular line from the toe to the head, weight shifting forward, then finnishing back again with some weight on the back leg.

This is a CRITICAL point, the FINNISH. This is the only time that the body is not in motion, It is FROZEN. The hitter can check things like 1) Is my foot closed off (a good thing) is my follow through above the shoulders, is my powerline correct (angled back). Is my head looking right where my bat made contact with the ball. The point is, if all these points of are correct at the finnish, then A LOT of things had to go right at high speed in order to get to a correct finnish.

This drill is repeated with different soft toss pitch locations. Inside/Outside/Middle/Middle-In/Middle-Out. The ball MUST be Driven where it is tossed. Outside Tosses to the extreme down the 1st baseline or foul, but always with authority. Same with inside pitches.

Care must be taken to arrange the location of the tosser and the plate and hitter so that the person tossing the pitch is not drilled, especially on the outside drills.

These drills have been done by my sons for years and were taught by a former pro who played 12 years in the Majors. He has been teaching close to 30 years and has worked with players that moved on to be MLB players and stars we see today and stars of yesterday. I found this list of his "Alumni":

Gerald Alexander
Jeff Baker
Derek Bell
Casey Blake
Rick Colbert
Jose Cruz, Jr.
J.D. Drew
Tim Drew
Tony Grafanino
Kevin Gregg
Bobby Howry
Charles Johnson
Steve Karsay
Paul Kilgus
Mike Kolplove
Paul Konerko
Casey Kotchman
Marc Kroon
Derek Lee
Paul LoDuca
Albie Lopez
David Martinez
All Nipper
Joe Oliver
Jim Poole
Bill Pulsipher
Jody Reed
Chris Reitsma
Brian Roberts
Larry Rothschild
John Shave
Gary Sheffeld
Robby Thompson
Tim Wakefield
Turner Ward
Walt Weiss
Dan Wilson

This drill is the foundation to everything else he teaches. It has worked for my guys as well.

quote:

This is a CRITICAL point, the FINNISH............The hitter can check things like 1) Is my foot closed off (a good thing).....

Floridafan, can you explain what you mean by this?....I want to comment, but, I wanna make sure I understand what you're saying here....

The Finnish - is the critical part of THE DRILL. If you finnish correctly, as I stated, a lot of things will have had to go right. It gives the hitter the ability to check things to ensure that he did a number of things correctly.

If you are refering to the CLOSED FOOT, some teach this some don't. With a closed front foot and the bat held at point of contact, there is more power with a closed foot that an open one. You can hold a bat at a simulated contact point with a closed foot and have someone push on the bat. The hitter will be firm and have good strength. Do the same with an open foot and the person pushing on the bat will be able to move it and even cause the hitter to lose balance.

OK, I understand......You are saying it's how THE DRILL is done....You're not saying great hitters do it in their swings, though, correct?....

quote:

You can hold a bat at a simulated contact point with a closed foot and have someone push on the bat. The hitter will be firm and have good strength. Do the same with an open foot and the person pushing on the bat will be able to move it and even cause the hitter to lose balance.

Not if they use their hips efficiently....Most amateur hitters don't, though, I will admit...

That is correct...it is a drill.

And if you hold a bat at point of contact with an imaginary ball and stand there, and have someone apply pressure to the bat as if a ball was hitting it. You will have much more control and power with a closed foot than an open one. Just standing there...of course while swinging a bat in a game, one is never just standing there.

However it is interesting to feel the difference between an open and "closed" front foot.

A side benefit of this drill is it does develop very good forearm strength, which will allow a batter to stop his swing once he recognizes that the pitch is not the pitch he initially thought it was.

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
A faster stroke will always begin with hands and is not a purely rotational swing where the hands and arms are "along for the ride".

A faster stroke takes a direct path to the ball in as straight a path as possible. If the ball is outside, a straight path which will take the ball to the right half of the field.

FF, can you clarify? When you say the hands begin the swing and the swing takes a direct path, what do you mean?

Back to the title ..... theory v practical

I hunt, so I will give an analogy along those lines. The skills that will win you a world championship duck calling contest are not the same skills that will put the most food on the table. How do you know the difference? You have to be in the field.

Same is true about hitting. The skills that make you a world class hitting instructor may not be the same skills that will win the most games.

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
That is correct...it is a drill.

And if you hold a bat at point of contact with an imaginary ball and stand there, and have someone apply pressure to the bat as if a ball was hitting it. You will have much more control and power with a closed foot than an open one. Just standing there...of course while swinging a bat in a game, one is never just standing there.

However it is interesting to feel the difference between an open and "closed" front foot.

A side benefit of this drill is it does develop very good forearm strength, which will allow a batter to stop his swing once he recognizes that the pitch is not the pitch he initially thought it was.

Floridafan,

The problem I have with your theory of the closed foot, is that you are saying (in a round-a-bout way) that a hitter still needs to be applying force at and through contact. The thing is, all of the power creation in a high level swing is over after the first two frames of a five frame swing.

Closed vs open front foot.....we are running into semantics problem in that what exactly constitutes closed or open? To some closed is anything angle that is to the 2nd base side of the diamond while to others closed is 90 degree angle to pitcher (toe pointed generally directly at the plate).

Powertoallfields brings up good point about early generation of batspeed. Kinda important.

Several good points being raised but the "how" is still missing. For that matter, some of the "why" is missing also. Forget proving whose idea is best...think about the audience you are instructing and "how" and "why" you want the player to do something. Otherwise, we're just writing in the snow.

Personally, interested in floridafan's Drill#4 as it is similar function to what I teach hitters. Hips and hands is something I've said on this board many times.

Remember Drill#4 is actually step 4 of 1 drill!

And yes we are talking semantics regarding a closed front foot. If you try to keep it closed it may not fly all the way open. I know that there are MLB hitters that do fly open...I don't necessarilly believe that makes it a good mechanical trait.

As far as having more power at initial contact, not sure why that would not be a positive outcome. I could care less after the ball leaves the bat.

Again, this is not my drill or teaching but the teaching from a very successful instructor. Not an instructor who teaches a Little League Swing, or a High School Swing or a College Swing, but a high level MLB swing.

And Power, while I may agree with you that the most power developed in a swing may occur early as you indicate the first few frames, power can bleed off throughout the swing. The key to a high level swing is to get rid of every source of bleeding power as possible. A closed front foot can be the difference between a fly out to the warning track or over the wall. Every aspect needs to be identified and considered.

What I'm saying, is that the position of the front foot means very little, it lands where it lands, but if you try to keep it closed, you will keep the front hip closed as well and THAT is a killer in the swing. There is no way to bleed power from a swing by opening the front foot or hip as long as the weight and stretch is balanced. The weight needs to stay over the rear leg until "go". The stretch needs to be balanced "around" the rear hip pivot point, so, if you open your hip more or foot more, you will need to coil more to balance the stretch. If you don't, you will fall off the rear hip and lose balance and weight and that is a bleed of power.

There was some video posted a while back that showed Pujols with a VERY closed front foot. For better or worse...Not saying that the foot needs to stay closed all the way either...

I don't think that whether the front foot stays open or closed is the emphisis of the drill. It is primarily a drill that is geared to develop quick hands and a powerful stroke and I believe involves "sequensing" which was a topic earlier.

My guy tries to keep his front foot closed as long as possible, however as you state as the hips clear, which is after contact, the foot will open up some. But he is not spinning on his heel as some MLB hitters do.

I believe that if you are 6'4 and 230 pounds, some mechanical issues will be irrelevent, you can afford to "bleed" some power. My guy is 5'11" and 195 and needs to focus and be efficient with all the energy he can create.

I believe that the key to power is the linkage between the hands and the hip.

The hands (top hand) needs to get the clubhead on the correct plane of the pitch as quickly as possible, as they link with the hip. This is why hands are important. They control the club head.

You think Pujols' hips don't clear until after contact in this clip?


http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Pujols8.gif

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
I believe that the key to power is the linkage between the hands and the hip.

The hands (top hand) needs to get the clubhead on the correct plane of the pitch as quickly as possible, as they link with the hip. This is why hands are important. They control the club head.

The hands are connected to the hip?

I'm not getting how the small, really miniscule, muscles in the hand generate power.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
What I'm saying, is that the position of the front foot means very little, it lands where it lands, but if you try to keep it closed, you will keep the front hip closed as well and THAT is a killer in the swing. There is no way to bleed power from a swing by opening the front foot or hip as long as the weight and stretch is balanced. The weight needs to stay over the rear leg until "go". The stretch needs to be balanced "around" the rear hip pivot point, so, if you open your hip more or foot more, you will need to coil more to balance the stretch. If you don't, you will fall off the rear hip and lose balance and weight and that is a bleed of power.

You rob power by keeping your hips closed? Seems like it would "bleed" power, as you call it, if they start to prematurely open. So, you are saying that most MLB power hitters do not use a closed foot?

Why can't I "lose balance"? and why is that a bad thing? I hear this all the time re pitching, but it's a myth in pitching - just watch Lincecum.

Actually the position of the front foot pretty much follows these rules in MLB - short to medium stride, land on ball of front foot - long stride, land on heel (can't land on ball of foot when stretched out that far). Landing on the heel may cause the hips to open slightly.

I totally understand why coaches don't get involved in hitting discussions.

Videos are often useless unless used by the individual hitter and his coach when they both know pitch location and type of pitch. Period. Everybody is merely guessing the above and use various videos to support their theory and ignore the rest. Unfortunately videos are all we have to work with on an internet board but we need to understand their limitations.

Unless MLB hitters don't make adjustments during the swing based on pitch location and speed, so that each swing is identical.....ohh yeah, that I believe. Open vs closed hip/foot seems to be a sticking point for many as if it was a universal key to a good swing. Question...do the hips open the same way/time for an inside fastball and for a curve on the outer edge of the plate?

Theory vs. practical.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
What I'm saying, is that the position of the front foot means very little, it lands where it lands, but if you try to keep it closed, you will keep the front hip closed as well and THAT is a killer in the swing. There is no way to bleed power from a swing by opening the front foot or hip as long as the weight and stretch is balanced. The weight needs to stay over the rear leg until "go". The stretch needs to be balanced "around" the rear hip pivot point, so, if you open your hip more or foot more, you will need to coil more to balance the stretch. If you don't, you will fall off the rear hip and lose balance and weight and that is a bleed of power.

You rob power by keeping your hips closed? Seems like it would "bleed" power, as you call it, if they start to prematurely open. So, you are saying that most MLB power hitters do not use a closed foot?

Why can't I "lose balance"? and why is that a bad thing? I hear this all the time re pitching, but it's a myth in pitching - just watch Lincecum.

Actually the position of the front foot pretty much follows these rules in MLB - short to medium stride, land on ball of front foot - long stride, land on heel (can't land on ball of foot when stretched out that far). Landing on the heel may cause the hips to open slightly.

You think your icon had his hips closed when he starts to take the barrel to the ball??? You think Lincecum is unbalanced or his hips are closed when he starts to bring the ball forward??? You must be on another drinking binge Babe.

quote:

Originally posted by S. Abrams:
Unfortunately videos are all we have to work with on an internet board but we need to understand their limitations.

Open vs closed hip/foot seems to be a sticking point for many as if it was a universal key to a good swing. Question...do the hips open the same way/time for an inside fastball and for a curve on the outer edge of the plate?

Theory vs. practical.

Yes, video is what we have. Yes, the hips open the same way/time on EVERY pitch. Now, they may not open as much on outside pitches, but they start to open at the same time. No great hitter ever hit with his hips closed when he was taking the barrel to the ball. NOT ONE! No great Pitcher ever threw the ball with his hips closed either. NOT ONE!