They turned around their program with the transfer portal and graduate seniors

@adbono posted:

Two years ago when the NCAA ruled to give all spring sports athletes an additional year of eligibility it wasn’t hard to forecast what that would do to recruiting. I posted a lot back then about where things were headed and got some pushback from a few that contended that freshmen would take precedence over 5 year players b/c they are the future of the program. I remember thinking (and saying), it just doesn’t work that way and you are in for a big disappointment. Unfortunately many have had to live that experience. For college coaches the future is NOW and they will ALWAYS defer to more experienced players.

As I have a 2024 trying to navigate this very difficult and different world of baseball recruiting, I am seeing first hand this ^^^ come true! Way less 2023s, 2024s and 2025s being recruited then just 2 years ago. Schools are leaning HEAVY on the portal more so then ever! I believe the transfer portal is the "new" way of recruiting.  One of the D1s my son is talking to has only 4 freshman on their roster this fall.  They have 22 returning players from spring 2022, which 15 of those 22 were from the portal, and 15 new, incoming portal transfers on the roster this fall. 

So, do you tell kids to go to JUCO first then enter the portal? Or, do you let them go D1, then go into the portal? Who knows anymore!

@adbono posted:

TPM, Im not talking about scholarship offers as much as I’m talking about walk on offers. Coaches have nothing to lose by extending as many of those as kids will accept. Maybe a kid turns into a player and helps the program - but that is a rare result.

One of my son's hs teammates is experiencing this first hand.  Had a D1 PWO offer.  Made it half way through the fall and he realized he was never going to see the field.  Would go entire scrimmages with zero action.

Well, now he's home looking for a Juco.

@Master P posted:

One of my son's hs teammates is experiencing this first hand.  Had a D1 PWO offer.  Made it half way through the fall and he realized he was never going to see the field.  Would go entire scrimmages with zero action.

Well, now he's home looking for a Juco.

It's just awful for these kids! It's a process to go to a college - application, financial aid, moving into dorms, adjusting to life away from home, classes, workouts, adjusting to college life, etc. - then be told you no longer have a spot/sit on the bench behind portal transfers knowing you will not see the field and then be forced and/or choosing to leave.  Now, I understand not every kid and family is armed with the all the recruiting knowledge that we are lucky to have on this board, but these HC and RC are doing a majority of kids no favors! All I can do is shake my head at what this college baseball world has become.  It sure was way less complicated when I got recruited in college.  Granted that was a gazillion years ago!!

@BaseballMOM05 posted:

It's just awful for these kids! It's a process to go to a college - application, financial aid, moving into dorms, adjusting to life away from home, classes, workouts, adjusting to college life, etc. - then be told you no longer have a spot/sit on the bench behind portal transfers knowing you will not see the field and then be forced and/or choosing to leave.  Now, I understand not every kid and family is armed with the all the recruiting knowledge that we are lucky to have on this board, but these HC and RC are doing a majority of kids no favors! All I can do is shake my head at what this college baseball world has become.  It sure was way less complicated when I got recruited in college.  Granted that was a gazillion years ago!!

Technology and market conditions have fostered the change

Student Athletes and families must pivot.  Many divisions, very good competition at all levels.  There are Post Grad Options

"The Cheese has been moved"

@BaseballMOM05 posted:

It's just awful for these kids! It's a process to go to a college - application, financial aid, moving into dorms, adjusting to life away from home, classes, workouts, adjusting to college life, etc. - then be told you no longer have a spot/sit on the bench behind portal transfers knowing you will not see the field and then be forced and/or choosing to leave.  Now, I understand not every kid and family is armed with the all the recruiting knowledge that we are lucky to have on this board, but these HC and RC are doing a majority of kids no favors! All I can do is shake my head at what this college baseball world has become.  It sure was way less complicated when I got recruited in college.  Granted that was a gazillion years ago!!

There is a financial component to this as well and the blame for that falls on the institution and not the baseball coaches. Many ADs assign target numbers to every athletic program at their school and tie financial incentives to the coaches for meeting or exceeding those numbers. Every walk on player in every sport pays full tuition to that college or university. So administrators are using sports as a way to lure in more students that pay full tuition on the hope that they will be part of a sports team. The “preferred” tag that gets added on in some cases often means nothing other than offering false hope to a player and his family. Now, having said all that, this is not breaking news. Families should be aware of this and act accordingly.

I just do not get all the coach bashing for going and getting the best players that help your team win.  That is what I want in a college coach for my son.  I want him to bring in the best freshmen, juco guys, and transfer portal guys every year.  If my son is not on the field due to my coach doing his job, then we will pivot and do something differently.  But I cannot be mad at the coach for doing the job he was hired to do at the best of his ability.  That is the type of program that I want my son to be a part of.  Again, UT has been on both sides of it.  Last year, every player was a result of the development of the program.  We had 2 starting outfielders who had started all three years, first baseman, second baseman, ss, and third baseman that waited their turns, catcher that transitioned and learned the position from being an outfielder to help the team and himself, and 3/4 guys who played LF that were waiters, juco guys, and freshmen.  Pitchers were 2 freshmen, 1 transfer portal guy, juco guy, 6 year guy, and rest were in house guys.  10 were drafted and 2 aged out.  Rebuilding entire fielding.  Catcher will be a Catcher who became OF'er to get playing time and now Catcher again.  3 portal guys, 3 juco guys and waiters along with freshmen.  If coach doesn't do his job, we would not have been #1 team in the nation most of the year last year.  Can't be upset with a coaching staff that does their job well.  I know some that left are frustrated and may say differently but he is doing what he was hired to do.  WIN.

@CollegebaseballInsights I do completely agree with you!  "The change" happened so fast that many student athletes and families  (2020s, 2021s and 2022s) didn't know that it was happening, what it meant or how it would play out.  These are the kids and families stuck in the middle of the mess now. That is the unfortunate part for many caught up in this new post-Covid portal transfer world.

For those of us with kids in HS and still in the recruiting process at least we can see the change and have some better insight as to how recruiting and baseball programs are operating now with the portal.  It doesn't make it any more pleasant or easy, but we can at least make more informed decisions.  And, the service you provide is greatly appreciated and vital in helping to make these informed decisions. Thank you!!

@BaseballMOM05 posted:

@CollegebaseballInsights I do completely agree with you!  "The change" happened so fast that many student athletes and families  (2020s, 2021s and 2022s) didn't know that it was happening, what it meant or how it would play out.  These are the kids and families stuck in the middle of the mess now. That is the unfortunate part for many caught up in this new post-Covid portal transfer world.

For those of us with kids in HS and still in the recruiting process at least we can see the change and have some better insight as to how recruiting and baseball programs are operating now with the portal.  It doesn't make it any more pleasant or easy, but we can at least make more informed decisions.  And, the service you provide is greatly appreciated and vital in helping to make these informed decisions. Thank you!!

The impact of Covid19, extra years of eligibility, the transfer portal, and the contraction of the MLB draft on recruiting has been discussed on HSBBW in great detail since spring of 2020. Everything that’s happening now was forecast at least two years ago. Some people listened more than others.

@PitchingFan There is nothing wrong with wanting to win and bringing in the best kids to help a program win. I am all for competition, growing from competition, learning from older, more experienced players and waiting your turn to get field time. I have a problem with the programs that have 8-12 HS kids committed per class, bring them on campus, then bring in tons of portal transfers and after a few weeks into fall, tell the freshman or sophomores that they don't have a spot anymore because there are "better, more experienced" players ahead of them and the program needs to "win."  Now, if coaches want to go strictly recruiting from the transfer portal to get those types of "better, more experienced" players, so be it. That's fine! Nothing wrong with that.  But, don't yank kids around at your expense so you can "experiment" to get the best kids on the field. Now, there will always be kids that just don't cut it once on campus their freshman year and they will be sent packing. That's been happening since I played college sports in the mid 90s.

The fact is college baseball recruiting and roster management has changed due to the transfer portal and as @CollegebaseballInsights said families and student athletes need to learn and pivot. 

@adbono posted:

The impact of Covid19, extra years of eligibility, the transfer portal, and the contraction of the MLB draft on recruiting has been discussed on HSBBW in great detail since spring of 2020. Everything that’s happening now was forecast at least two years ago. Some people listened more than others.

Yes it has and I am grateful that it has been discussed in depth by the very knowledgeable people on this board! It has helped us and our 2024 very much.  But, some of the kids and families in the middle of this mess right now didn't have this information and had no idea how all this would play out.  Those are the ones that I do feel for.

@BaseballMOM05 posted:

@CollegebaseballInsights I do completely agree with you!  "The change" happened so fast that many student athletes and families  (2020s, 2021s and 2022s) didn't know that it was happening, what it meant or how it would play out.  These are the kids and families stuck in the middle of the mess now. That is the unfortunate part for many caught up in this new post-Covid portal transfer world.

For those of us with kids in HS and still in the recruiting process at least we can see the change and have some better insight as to how recruiting and baseball programs are operating now with the portal.  It doesn't make it any more pleasant or easy, but we can at least make more informed decisions.  And, the service you provide is greatly appreciated and vital in helping to make these informed decisions. Thank you!!

I think many on this forum felt like chicken little, IMHO we all want the best for every family and hopefully we've provided some practical information so you can make the most informed decision for your family.

Remove the emotions, execute your plan, make better decisions with the best information available.

@PitchingFan posted:

I just do not get all the coach bashing for going and getting the best players that help your team win.  That is what I want in a college coach for my son.  I want him to bring in the best freshmen, juco guys, and transfer portal guys every year.  If my son is not on the field due to my coach doing his job, then we will pivot and do something differently.  But I cannot be mad at the coach for doing the job he was hired to do at the best of his ability.  That is the type of program that I want my son to be a part of.  Again, UT has been on both sides of it.  Last year, every player was a result of the development of the program.  We had 2 starting outfielders who had started all three years, first baseman, second baseman, ss, and third baseman that waited their turns, catcher that transitioned and learned the position from being an outfielder to help the team and himself, and 3/4 guys who played LF that were waiters, juco guys, and freshmen.  Pitchers were 2 freshmen, 1 transfer portal guy, juco guy, 6 year guy, and rest were in house guys.  10 were drafted and 2 aged out.  Rebuilding entire fielding.  Catcher will be a Catcher who became OF'er to get playing time and now Catcher again.  3 portal guys, 3 juco guys and waiters along with freshmen.  If coach doesn't do his job, we would not have been #1 team in the nation most of the year last year.  Can't be upset with a coaching staff that does their job well.  I know some that left are frustrated and may say differently but he is doing what he was hired to do.  WIN.

To be blunt, you are living in Lala land because it hasn't had an effect on your son.  You were all for the extra covid year because it helped your son (not good for athletes overall).  Please tell me how understanding you would be if your son signed a one year lease (the example I will use was $1100 a month, as that's the rate at this college), played in a regional, then was blindsided in mid June (lease started June 1) and told to hit the portal?  You are understanding and just "pivoting" to plan B?  Then your son gets an offer from Northwestern but they are only going to take 7 hours...yes I said 7, and he is about to start his junior year. Or God forbid, you kid gets hurt and needs surgery and they ask for his scholarship.  I get that Tennessee hasn't done this to kids, but questioning why people are upset when you have no frame of reference is a rub. There is a human element to it, 18-22 (or 25) year old are still kids and treating them like trading cards is wrong.  If coaches are being totally upfront, I can respect it, but you clearly have no idea what is happening to a lot of kids.

Son has not gained an extra year yet.   He is still a normal senior.  I know it affects kids but I also know it is part of sports on all levels.  It has been happening for years, pre-Covid.  Guys got cut in the summer after the season was over.  For some it after the leases were signed but they normally found someone, a guy coming in to take over the lease.

I do know many that it has happened to personally and I do feel sorry for them but I also know it is part of the process.  I just don't get why the coaches are being trashed as a whole.  I know there are some bad ones out there but I don't think most are.  I know every year there are guys who get told at some point during the fall that they will be redshirted in the spring.   I think the number that their scholarships are pulled during the fall is very minimal.  I think the problem overall is no plan B.

BTW, I never said I could not understand why people are frustrated.  I get that but why trash coaches in general.  If a coach did it to your kid or some other kid, then put their name on here.  That is how you stop it from happening.  But it is like so many other things in life and people aren't willing to say it.  Plus we always use analogies when we don't always know the truth.  The kids that I know it has happened to are not starters.  They are guys who stretched to start with and were above their heads and took the chance or it was their dream school.  Not saying everyone but most.  I do not know of a starter who was cut for a transfer.

There are reasons people don’t say names. Surely you understand that. It has happened for years, not at this rate. Yes, I believe some coaches do it with respect for how it will affect the kid. Others do not. I know way too many kids to thinks it’s isolated. I don’t think it’s coach bashing, it is saying some coaches have been pretty callous and very cut throat.  You can call that bashing or just call it truth. If you are fine with that approach, it’s not an insult. I’ve also said that coaches who did it were rewarded with good seasons (just like basketball) so it’s not going anywhere. This is a warning to parents that it’s happening on a large scale and there are academic and financial implications beyond finding a new place to play.

When you say Large Scale, what % do you think it happens?  That infers 25% of players are cut at some point in their career.  I'm guessing that number is more like 1-2% at the most.  Unless you also count the number that see the writing on the wall and leave because of lack of playing time.  But I don't think that number is any higher than it was.  I'm guessing it works it way out and the guys who are doing it also eventually reduce their recruiting freshman classes.  Not good for those it affects but it does away with the unworthy part.

It just adds a much different dynamic to the recruiting process.

You also have to remember that it has had a tough affect on the coaches.  The ones who swore it was a very bad thing will not be winning without doing it.  So many have had to change their approach because if they want to compete, they must go into the transfer portal whether they fully want to or not.  I believe those who do it harshly will see the effects in the long run also.  The ones who over recruited struggled getting the middle level kids for years.  So give it time.  Not a consolation for those in it but that is also a part of life.

I’m going to weigh in on this point being made by @baseballhs. I believe the biggest issue lies with Recruiting Coordinators. IMO too many of them tell players what they want to hear and not what the likely results will be. I have heard many a RC tell a pitching prospect, “you will be a dude for us! Our guy! I can see you as a weekend starter this year.” Then they say the same thing to 10 more pitching recruits. Granted, it’s a numbers game. But there are only 2 weekend starters and if you are leading 10 kids to believe they will be one of them that’s being less than honest. And this goes on all the time at lots of schools. So this is just one more place where homework has to be done to verify the gap between “recruiting pitch” and how things actually play out. It’s not hard to look at stats from prior years to see how many innings the freshmen pitchers pitched (for example). It’s usually not many btw. It’s also not hard to find out whether or not a RC has a history of exaggerating the truth. Some are much worse than others.

@PitchingFan posted:

When you say Large Scale, what % do you think it happens?  That infers 25% of players are cut at some point in their career.  I'm guessing that number is more like 1-2% at the most.  Unless you also count the number that see the writing on the wall and leave because of lack of playing time.  But I don't think that number is any higher than it was.  

1-2%….How is A&M going to take 16 transfers, 15 freshmen, and any returners from their squad of 37 last year, and only cut 2%?

Our program cut 8 over the summer…that’s far more than 1-2% and doesn’t include those cut in December.

This is why I think you don’t have a frame of reference. If Tennessee is at 1-2%, there are an anomaly.

Baseballhs is right about this issue. After the best season in program history A&M cut 13 players. That’s over a third of the roster. Now, most of those players were not recruited by the current coaching staff so 35% plus may be on the high side of the spectrum. Average may be more like 20% at top D1 programs. But 1-2% is not even in a real world conversation. This is much more common right now than some people seem to realize. Especially if they happen to be in a program that isn’t doing this to extreme. But I can tell you for a fact that people that are seeing this firsthand, and talking about it on HSBBW are not making things up. It’s very real.

So you guys are saying 1/4 of all recruits who come into a program are cut.  Can’t count those who quit.  Maybe I am in left field. I keep up with probably over 100 players and only two of those have been cut. Several have transferred but it was due to lack of playing time or other things but they were never cut or told to leave.

That is what I’m saying.

I would recommend Tennessee to anyone who is being recruited by them…

I would also. But I also count Texas A&M and LSU and things like that that have changed coaches as outliers at this point because they are having to do what it takes to win and obviously in a lot of cases those players that were there were not their choices.  Transfer portal is quickest way to catch up fast.  But that is where you have to keep an eye on where a coach is on tenure to know whether he will be there for long or not.  

@PitchingFan posted:

I would also. But I also count Texas A&M and LSU and things like that that have changed coaches as outliers at this point because they are having to do what it takes to win and obviously in a lot of cases those players that were there were not their choices.  Transfer portal is quickest way to catch up fast.  But that is where you have to keep an eye on where a coach is on tenure to know whether he will be there for long or not.  

I know for a fact A&M is using this angle in recruiting '24s and '25's.  They are saying that they wont take nearly the amount of transfers going forward in order to get the early commits.

I don’t want to hijack this discussion but I also don’t wanna start a new thread. So is it right or wrong For a new coach to not keep the players he did not recruit?  
should he feel obligated to keep the old coach’s players or should he be allowed with no repercussions to go get the guys he wants?   Which would include bringing players with him from his old school.

Well we aren’t at A&M or LSU, so not all outliers.

I hate that we are using my alma mater as the example but let’s do the math at A&M.
37 players on 2022 roster. 7 were lost to the MLB draft or graduation. Then 13 more were cut. That leaves 17 returning players. This fall they added 9 from the transfer portal, 7 JuCo transfers, and 15 freshmen. That’s a total of 48 players on the fall roster. Which isn’t published btw. The spring roster will consist of 37 players which means 11 players will be cut or asked to redshirt. Assume 1 or 2 players redshirt and the rest are cut. That puts it right around 20% of the roster. Which I’m agreeing with baseballhs is typical for a top 50 D1 program. Yes, there are exceptions. But as I said earlier, you could replace A&M with OSU, OU, UT, TCU, Texas Tech, Grand Canyon, LSU, and on and on and it would still be true.

@BaseballMOM05 posted:

@PitchingFan There is nothing wrong with wanting to win and bringing in the best kids to help a program win. I am all for competition, growing from competition, learning from older, more experienced players and waiting your turn to get field time. I have a problem with the programs that have 8-12 HS kids committed per class, bring them on campus, then bring in tons of portal transfers and after a few weeks into fall, tell the freshman or sophomores that they don't have a spot anymore because there are "better, more experienced" players ahead of them and the program needs to "win."  Now, if coaches want to go strictly recruiting from the transfer portal to get those types of "better, more experienced" players, so be it. That's fine! Nothing wrong with that.  But, don't yank kids around at your expense so you can "experiment" to get the best kids on the field. Now, there will always be kids that just don't cut it once on campus their freshman year and they will be sent packing. That's been happening since I played college sports in the mid 90s.

The fact is college baseball recruiting and roster management has changed due to the transfer portal and as @CollegebaseballInsights said families and student athletes need to learn and pivot.

Which programs do that? Curious.

There are many coaches out there that like having freshman players that grow in their program, which adds to the schools culture.

For years mid D1 programs have been bringing in JUCO and D2 programs have been bringing in drop downs. This is not a new thing. Covid created issues, nothing you can do about it right now.

You had to be a stud to play in top conferences and you have to be one now, or you need to hit or get hitters out. Hasn't changed. Be realistic. Attend games of programs recruiting you, would it be a right fit for you?

Here is a suggestion. Have an independent  evaluation of your player if he isn't getting attention. Or change the narrative, go Juco and gain the experience needed to compete at the next level. Attend D3.

If you are a player in a program where you feel you aren't needed or appreciated, leave!

But do it when the time is right, don't quit because that might be the end.

Sorry. It's always the same discussion. Coaches are not bad people. They have obligations to the program and alumni and players to WIN. They all do things differently.

The only way I would say a coach is a bad guy is if he is constantly gas-lighting players.  You're in our plans, next season you're my guy, etc.  Such that it keeps you hanging on rather than being able to move on. That's the only way I would call him a bad guy.  (basically what Adbono said about Rc's).  The rest is a natural progression of the way the recruiting/rebuilding game is played today.

@BaseballMOM05 posted:

@PitchingFan There is nothing wrong with wanting to win and bringing in the best kids to help a program win. I am all for competition, growing from competition, learning from older, more experienced players and waiting your turn to get field time. I have a problem with the programs that have 8-12 HS kids committed per class, bring them on campus, then bring in tons of portal transfers and after a few weeks into fall, tell the freshman or sophomores that they don't have a spot anymore because there are "better, more experienced" players ahead of them and the program needs to "win."  Now, if coaches want to go strictly recruiting from the transfer portal to get those types of "better, more experienced" players, so be it. That's fine! Nothing wrong with that.  But, don't yank kids around at your expense so you can "experiment" to get the best kids on the field. Now, there will always be kids that just don't cut it once on campus their freshman year and they will be sent packing. That's been happening since I played college sports in the mid 90s.

The fact is college baseball recruiting and roster management has changed due to the transfer portal and as @CollegebaseballInsights said families and student athletes need to learn and pivot.

I am not a fan of the way recruiting is handled now, but players and families have had plenty of time to see how things go now. Look at recruiting classes…. Kids are still committing with 15+ other kids per class. Yes, some coaches will lie cheat and steal. At this point I put it on the parents and players for falling for it over and over again

Did I see a reference that family's should be researching coach's contracts and how long they have left? What are we even doing if that's the expectation? That said I do appreciate this thread and think it's a good middle ground between the coach apologists and people just wanting to do what's right by their kid without hiring a private investigator.

@adbono posted:

I hate that we are using my alma mater as the example but let’s do the math at A&M.
37 players on 2022 roster. 7 were lost to the MLB draft or graduation. Then 13 more were cut. That leaves 17 returning players. This fall they added 9 from the transfer portal, 7 JuCo transfers, and 15 freshmen. That’s a total of 48 players on the fall roster. Which isn’t published btw. The spring roster will consist of 37 players which means 11 players will be cut or asked to redshirt. Assume 1 or 2 players redshirt and the rest are cut. That puts it right around 20% of the roster. Which I’m agreeing with baseballhs is typical for a top 50 D1 program. Yes, there are exceptions. But as I said earlier, you could replace A&M with OSU, OU, UT, TCU, Texas Tech, Grand Canyon, LSU, and on and on and it would still be true.

this is extermely accurate...

the previous analogy of Tenn only cutting 1-2 %  is an extreme outlier in todays game and I will guess(educated) that there are only a handful of top D1's that fall into that low cut catagory. you are very fortunate to have your son at such a rare and Top baseball school these days..I would give my left nut for that.

20-25%  cut is average - for Most schools : P5..mid major and even some lower D1.

"Cut" includes: actually cut, told you will not get much playing time , asked to redshirt , etc..all which leads to the player leaving..

I have a ton of experience with my son and other players on this subject.

Basically the coach will use the tools that they have- which has changed greatly past few years- to their fullest extent-

to help them WIN..

which adds greatly to their own resume..

which helps in future recruiting and possibly securing their dream job sometime in the future if they are not already at it.

@fishnsail posted:

which helps in future recruiting and possibly securing their dream job sometime in the future if they are not already at it.

Doesn't always help in future recruiting, especially when the lower level D1s are doing it like you mentioned.

@nycdad posted:

Right!? What were they supposed to research? There was nothing to research!! Still not much,  but a little more!

@nycdad posted:

Doesn't always help in future recruiting, especially when the lower level D1s are doing it like you mentioned.

the head coach goal = "Winning"

helps his future recruiting and his resume for possible move up job or dream job/pay increase etc..

it is all about winning and using the tools they have to put the best team on the field.

@fishnsail posted:

the head coach goal = "Winning"

helps his future recruiting and his resume for possible move up job or dream job/pay increase etc..

it is all about winning and using the tools they have to put the best team on the field.

Does not help a lower level D1 coach to rip through recruiting classes. Just like there are kids that go into the portal to drop down, there are players that are looking to move up and into better situations. Saw it first hand with my sons' teams.

@adbono posted:

I hate that we are using my alma mater as the example but let’s do the math at A&M.
37 players on 2022 roster. 7 were lost to the MLB draft or graduation. Then 13 more were cut. That leaves 17 returning players. This fall they added 9 from the transfer portal, 7 JuCo transfers, and 15 freshmen. That’s a total of 48 players on the fall roster. Which isn’t published btw. The spring roster will consist of 37 players which means 11 players will be cut or asked to redshirt. Assume 1 or 2 players redshirt and the rest are cut. That puts it right around 20% of the roster. Which I’m agreeing with baseballhs is typical for a top 50 D1 program. Yes, there are exceptions. But as I said earlier, you could replace A&M with OSU, OU, UT, TCU, Texas Tech, Grand Canyon, LSU, and on and on and it would still be true.

@adbono thanks for the intel.  

Currently only 194 of the 305 d1 programs have published their fall rosters.  About 10% have posted partial roster, ie returning players.

IMHO, schools should be required to publish their fall rosters by a specified date, maybe 9/15.

Then we can have some fun trying to figure this mess out.

@HSDad22 posted:

That's the only way I would call him a bad guy.  (basically what Adbono said about Rc's).  The rest is a natural progression of the way the recruiting/rebuilding game is played today.

So the coach that employs the RC, makes the final choices and sets the standards for his assistants to operate by is cleared of bad guy statues how?  Or is the HC just hiding behind the RC and getting exactly what he wants....why would these coaches not hold the staff accountable if they don't stamp the process?

Funny thing for me is I don't really blame the coaches but to sit here and act like they are good guys and innocent of this is just not an accurate portrayal of the game.

I am totally comfortable blaming the school administrators, the conferences and the NCAA because they are pretty much all just fleas on a dog.

@old_school posted:

So the coach that employs the RC, makes the final choices and sets the standards for his assistants to operate by is cleared of bad guy statues how?  Or is the HC just hiding behind the RC and getting exactly what he wants....why would these coaches not hold the staff accountable if they don't stamp the process?

Funny thing for me is I don't really blame the coaches but to sit here and act like they are good guys and innocent of this is just not an accurate portrayal of the game.

I am totally comfortable blaming the school administrators, the conferences and the NCAA because they are pretty much all just fleas on a dog.

Of course not I just failed to mention it,  anyone complicit in allowing those behaviors to take place would also be guilty.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Interesting thread....Seems that in today's current NCAA landscape, almost all HS kids that aspire to "PLAY" at the next level need to start understanding and embrace the Juco route. But then again, maybe they always should have. jmc2