thinking about giving up the game

I was in basically the same spot as your son, except he has the benefit of being a lefty!

He could have a great D3 career ahead of him at some amazing schools. I was admitted to Harvard, but after extensive research, I didn't feel it was the best bang for my buck as an undergrad (I could go into the shortcomings of many of the big top 25 schools at the undergrad level, but I won't here)

We proud at the extremely selective, small liberal arts schools don't hold some of those schools in such high regard. And we get to play baseball now and go to those big name schools for grad school

Don't ever be a "shoulda, coulda, woulda" guy. I should've played or I could've played or I would've played but..... People like these are a dime a dozen and are all full of regrets. In life we're going to have regrets because we will make the wrong decision but we have to realize we don't know the outcome of decisions until they are over. But you have to factor in EVERYTHING in order to make a decison even if it does turn out to be one with regrets.

If you pursue the game without ever giving up then someone will make that decision for you. College coaches may never offer you a spot on the team due to lack of ability. They may let you on the team but cut you due to lack of improvement. You may play four years and all MLB teams say you're not good enough so they don't draft you. You may get drafted and then released. I think you see where I'm going with that. If you keep going then someone is going to make the decision for you. If you make the decision yourself then you are giving up with the potential that you could have done more.

Now all that being said we can't make that decision for you. We can give you advice on what we would do or what's important to us but we will NEVER know how much fire and drive your son has in his belly. If he doesn't have the fire or drive then yes it is time to hang up the cleats and move on with life. There is no shame in that and the decision probably won't be regretful one. These are the decisions you have to make as you enter into adulthood. They are not easy and they require thinking ahead as to what the future could hold. But to make the decision to walk away you need to consider EVERYTHING to make a decision like this. I have nothing I can add to help you make this decision other than to say, consider everything.

Quick story - I was playing college baseball as a walk on at a NAIA school. I loved it and had great friends on the team although I wasn't playing. But it was frustrating not getting to play. My sophomore year I got the opportunity to be an asst. coach at a local high school under a former team mate who just graduated. He was a senior and I was his freshman backup at catcher. He got the head coaching job right out of college and wanted me to come help him. I tried to do both coach and play while going to school. Amazingly my grades started plummeting and I had make a decision on what to do.

I decided to give up playing and focusing on coaching. I knew my future was in coaching although I had no idea how good I would be. So I went to coach and told him I was done, thanked him for the opportunity to walk on and be part of the team but I had to start planning for the future. Coach was awesome about it and understood.

I started coaching and we had some success. I started building a name for myself. After four years at the school there were some changes and I was no longer coaching there. That summer another former team mate of mine from college was named head coach at another local school and asked me to coach for him. But I also had two other offers from other schools that were fairly close to the second school. I felt pretty good about where I was going with my coaching career. I only coached at that school one year and we made it to the final 8 teams in the state. The next year I got a full time teaching job about 8 hours from the two schools I started at. My second year they named me head coach. The next 9 years saw my teams set school record after record and we had more success than any other team in the school's history. After that I decided I wanted to make a change and be closer to some family and moved to NC. For the past three years I've been an asst. at a very successful school. We've won our conference every year and were state runners up. This past June we had a kid drafted by the Yankees.

The good Lord truly has blessed my coaching career so far and I hope He continues to bless it even more. I've made so many friends and helped to influence so many kids and accomplished so much. But I'm a "shoulda, coulda, woulda" person.

I made the right decision to give up playing and focusing on my teaching / coaching career. I wouldn't trade the wonderful things I've been able to experience while coaching for anything in this world.......but I truly miss playing the game and I do sometimes wish I continued to play the last two years of college. Looking back now I know I never would have went past college and I was lucky just to get to play college. I gave up those last two years to do something good with my life but there are times it gnaws at me.

Nobody here can really tell you anything to help you make that decision. It's all on the player and it's not something to take lightly. Please consider everything and make a decision you can live with.

I wish your son the absolute and very best in making the right decision for him.

I'm not sure you have thought this through if you think that his academic credentials will get him on the baseball team at Vandy or Duke.

Coach, that was truly a beautiful post. Should be golden, no doubt.

There are so many reasons to quit this game. Only one to continue on.. belief in one's self.

I kind of know what your son is going through. I'm a freshman at a NAIA school who is in the process of getting back from a slap tear of my labrum.I had solid grades in high school and a 28 ACT. I had the choice to go to one of the in state universities or go off to play small college baseball far from home. What made the difference for me was the fact that there isn't another thing in this world that i'd rather do with my life besides playing baseball. Out of all the things I hate about being injured, I do love the fact that it made me realize the impact it has made on my life. I'm sure deep down inside your son knows whether or nothe loves the game. Yes, school fills his life with opportunities but he will never havethe chance to play baseball at a high level again. Like coach said don't be filled with regret. If he does go and hates it what is the worst that can happen? He decides to transfer out and follow a different path? I love this game and everything that it has brought me and Im sure if your son has been around it the game will help him make the right choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
I'm not sure you have thought this through if you think that his academic credentials will get him on the baseball team at Vandy or Duke.

This guy has the inside track! :P

Seriously though, Mr. Kremer would surely be glad to talk to you about Duke.

Rob- I believe the implication was that his son would be attempting to attend a school such as Vanderbilt or Duke and not play baseball

If he wants a career in baseball (coaching, writing, marketing, etc.), then go D3 and play.

Otherwise, go with Duke or Vandy and make some big bucks.

This thread has hit me emotionally for some reason.

coach2709 - what a wonderful post.

smithers505 - it seems to me that your son's tears answer all the questions and essentially make the decision for you. He can take his 35 ACT and probably go to school for free at any University in the country. The good thing here, some of the very best academic universities also happen to be on the D3 level. Sounds to me like your young man can have his cake and eat it too and how many kids can say that! What he needs to do is get busy finding a high academic fit where he'll also have a chance to play in college.

What coach2709 said is true. His coaching career would have been there for him regardless of how his playing career ended up but he gave up something valuable that he can never go back and receive.

If your son makes the decision to give up baseball now, it will be like ringing a bell. As the old saying goes, you can never go back and "un-ring" the bell. There is no reason why your son cannot find a perfect university to attend and also turn tears into smiles knowing that his baseball career is going to continue for at least four more years

I can tell you for a fact based on my son's experience you will get lots more academic money at a D3 than you will athletic money anywhere with those scores. (I assume you have the grades to go along with it) You need to get an accurate assessment of your abilities and then select a number of D3 programs that match those and your desired major. You will find that approximately 20% of the D3 programs that are typically ranked high every year are more or less looking for D1 athletes that fall through the cracks for whatever reason, so don’t assume that just because they are D3 that you will get playing time. Pick a range of programs that might interest you and get in touch with the coaches. There are lots of opportunities to play college baseball and beyond (if you have the skills) if you look around a bit. Look at d3baseball.com.

SOS you can have both with some research, there are a number of highly ranked baseball and academic D3’s that routinely put kids in the pros and their graduates earn top dollars.

Smithers505,

Does your son know what he wants to study and does he have a specific reason to go to one of the schools you mentioned other than the prestige of doing so or the expectation that kids with his mental horsepower are supposed to go to schools like that?

Your son should view his high academic credentials as something that increases his options, not as something that boxes him into a certain small set of elite colleges.

Now, if he knows he really wants to pursue a particular course of study and he can't play baseball at the few schools that offer excellence in that field, then he either has to drop baseball or settle for less than the top academic program in his field.

However, if he doesn't know exactly what he wants to study in college and just wants a good, well-rounded undergraduate education, he can explore the whole range of schools that might accommodate his athletic and academic interests.

It might be premature to sacrifice his baseball aspirations.

Best wishes.

If it were my son, I'd say...... Go to school, play like there is no tomorrow. Because, in reality, tomorrows borrowed time already. If you are questioning this decision now, think how you'll second guess it later!

GED10DaD

CD, BOF, and Swampboy,

You've said it all and read my mind! Great advice.

JP----solid advice

quote:

Originally posted by smithers505:
we're debating whether it'd be better for 2012 (who, frankly, doesn't stand a chance of getting drafted unless he grows three inches) to choose a D3 school and continue his playing career, or just play one more summer and use his academic credentials to attend somewhere like vanderbilt or duke. he cried tonight when he thought of not playing anymore--i'm honestly torn. if anybody wants to know, he missed his junior season with tendinitis, and he's been injured before; when healthy, he's a low-80s LHP who also happened to score a 35 on ACT

What does he want to do? That's really all that should matter. Even if he goes to Vandy/Duke, he can always play adult baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
If he wants a career in baseball (coaching, writing, marketing, etc.), then go D3 and play.

Otherwise, go with Duke or Vandy and make some big bucks.

So, you're saying that a degree from an Amherst, Williams, Pomona, Wesleyan, Bates, Macalester, Harvey Mudd, Whitman, Emory, Swarthmore, Claremont-McKenna, Haverford, Trinity, Colorado College and so on, and so on won't prepare you sufficiently for a successful career?

There is no doubt that your son will make the best decision. I am assuming his grades reflect his ACT, which will give him opportunities anywhere. I am with the others who will tell you an undergrad degree from a Swarthmore or a Pomona is as good as any big name school, and he will have the academic $ to get there. No doubt a fine DIII with a baseball program would be highly interested in your son. Of course, if his heart is set on Vanderbilt or Duke he will have to figure it out. Regardless, it is a wonderful situation to be in. I wish him the best and will hope for a healthy senior year.

This thread is a great example of just why this site exists. To begin with, thank you to smithers505 for sharing an emotional moment with this board. And kudos to those that have given such fantastic advice. You guys could be the reason that this kid goes on to future greatness, regardless of school, baseball, etc.

Your son has his entire life left for work.....I say...if you can play....play while you can.....work will be there waiting for you when your done.

Smithers, I'd just like to add that I have no problem talking via PM about this and about any school/team, including my own :P

If you're wondering about a school, conference, degree program, or anything -- chances are I thought about it and researched it.

There are also several great resources on here. TRHit is a wonderful resource for the types of schools that will fit you, especially in the Northeast.

Be proactive!!!

quote:

Your son has his entire life left for work.....I say...if you can play....play while you can.....work will be there waiting for you when your done.

+1. Chase the dreams of youth as long as you can...you just may catch them. If not, you have >40 years of work waiting for you. They are not going anywhere.

There are a lot of nice posts in this thread. However, I think those that have made it to the highest levels have steadfastedly refused to give up the game. True, many leave because that decision is made for them, but not many that make it to the highest level decided to quit on their own.

Otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Just a thought.

smithers- You mentioned that your son was emotional about the potential of not continuing to play the game. It is evident that he loves to play and does not wish to give it up. So, why give it up?

Vanderbilt and Duke are fantastic, world renowned schools. But so are dozens of other schools around the country that could be fitting for your son athletically.

quote:

Originally posted by smithers505:
we're debating whether it'd be better for 2012 (who, frankly, doesn't stand a chance of getting drafted unless he grows three inches) to choose a D3 school and continue his playing career, or just play one more summer and use his academic credentials to attend somewhere like vanderbilt or duke. he cried tonight when he thought of not playing anymore--i'm honestly torn. if anybody wants to know, he missed his junior season with tendinitis, and he's been injured before; when healthy, he's a low-80s LHP who also happened to score a 35 on ACT

I read this over and really don't get it. Sorry.
Not sure about the draft comment either, do you think that it's just his height that would keep him out of the draft? Seriously maybe you were just kidding.

Why is your son crying (there is no cryin' in baseball just lots and lots and lots of hard work), because there is no offer on the table? What are the expectations, what have you all done in the recruiting process? What has your son done to improve his velocity? What have you all done to improve his health issues? Out for a season with tendinitous? Depending on the underlying issue, doctor and PT, it doesn't take forever to recover. Obviously the test scores are not an issue, but FWIW, that doesn't mean an automatic admission to schools like Duke and Vanderbilt.

Is this just a matter of doing a lot of hard work and not seeing results or just waiting for someone to make an offer based on his grades and which hand he throws with?

Lots of good advice given. I have no advice as I am really not sure of the situation.

Just my two cents, but:

Keep playing as long as you keep moving up. If he can play at a D3, he should play. He clearly loves the game. No reason to give it up. As a previous post stated, if baseball doesn't work out at the D3, he can always go to another school. If he doesn't play, he will regret it. With his intelligence, he will be fine. Best of luck!

quote:

Originally posted by 2013 Dad:
Just my two cents, but:

Keep playing as long as you keep moving up. If he can play at a D3, he should play. He clearly loves the game. No reason to give it up. As a previous post stated, if baseball doesn't work out at the D3, he can always go to another school. If he doesn't play, he will regret it. With his intelligence, he will be fine. Best of luck!

Great advice, but you have to have a plan to do that and that includes making a strong effort at recruiting and being healthy.

quote:

Originally posted by smithers505:
he's a low-80s LHP who also happened to score a 35 on ACT

I suspect you have more options than you might imagine. A 35 out of 36 on the ACT is incredible, and my hats off to you as parents and your son for having tested so well. Assuming his grades are at least decent, you can get into most schools, including the Ivy's with a lot of academic money.

That said, if he truly wants to continue to play baseball and you do not want to waste the opportunity to get admitted into an elite academic school, you need to find coaches who will give you an answer if he can play for them. Remember there are elite academic schools that have weak baseball programs even in D1(Duke and Vandy do not fit that description), so he might be able to have his cake and eat it as well. Depending on his ability to make the team, you might look into D3's like Occidental, John Hopkins, etc. that have excellent reputations. Then again John Hopkins is a strong D3 program, so it again boils down to your sons ability. Being LH, the velo wont be as important to some coaches provided he can get kids out with 3 pitches. So if he has a good change, curve, and locates his FB well, you never know who may need or want your son. It is not too late for you and he to do your homework to find the right fit. You are holding better cards in your hand than you might think, so keep your chin up and find the right fit for your son.

smithers

I was in the same type of situation as you with my son. He was a 4.6 GPA out of 4, 35 ACT, and valedictorian of his graduating class. He was rated a 7.5 at 2 PG events to give you an indication of baseball abilities. He is playing baseball in college. He received plenty of academic money from the school.

It sounds like your son owes it to himself to see what possibilities are out there to combine a good education with his pursuit of playing ball. It doesn't have to be one or the other unless in the end coaches don't believe he has the ability to play or he does not do the research to find the fit. But to find out those answers it does take work, alot of work.

To TPM's point I don't know what your son has done to fulfill that goal or attempt to combine good academics with baseball. For my son it was alot of college camps, showcases, playing for a top summer and fall team at scouted tournaments, contact emails and videos. This resulted in several offers to play in college ranging from D2, D3,JUCO, NAIA.

One of the schools, D3, had everything he was looking for from very good academics, his intended major, location, to liking the coach and the baseball program. That is where he is today. But I would be lying if I said it was an easy process. If your son has the ability and really wants to play he could find that fit. If he does not want to give up the big name school for academics for a college/baseball fit there is nothing wrong with that either.

I read a post on this site a year or two ago where a Dad answered the same question. He said he still wasn't sure if his son made the right choice in not going to the high profile academic university to go to play D3 baseball at a very good school. He knew his son made the right choice when he saw his son on their spring baseball trip in uniform warming up with the rest of his team. He was a college baseball player, something that completed him as a person.

It sounds like your son owes it to himself to see if that "fit" exists. And then make a final decision based on those options once they exist.

shortnquick - outstanding post!

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
shortnquick - outstanding post!

I haven't read all of these posts but I have to say, the title of the OP makes me sad.

Great Thread.

Can I just chime in on a point that for some is well known and obvious, but for many folks it might not be. The super elite D3 schools do not give merit money; they reserve all of their aid as need based aid. In some cases, there might be 'merit within need' but a family still needs to qualify on some level for need based aid.

So even a terrific student with a 4.9 and a 36/2400 will still not get a nickel in merit based aid from the top tier D3s, unless the EFC is at or below that school's cut off for need based aid.

It is important to know what we are all chasing here.

quote:

Originally posted by BaseballmomandCEP:
Great Thread.

Can I just chime in on a point that for some is well known and obvious, but for many folks it might not be. The super elite D3 schools do not give merit money; they reserve all of their aid as need based aid. In some cases, there might be 'merit within need' but a family still needs to qualify on some level for need based aid.

So even a terrific student with a 4.9 and a 36/2400 will still not get a nickel in merit based aid from the top tier D3s, unless the EFC is at or below that school's cut off for need based aid.

It is important to know what we are all chasing here.

This both is and isn't true. Many of the top schools are in the Northeast, where this is true almost without exception. However, there is a bit of a flaw to the way we rate colleges that makes it seem that there are only top notch schools in the Northeast. Many schools outside of that region give a good deal of merit aid. My school does that to steal kids from the Ivies in particular (like me).

"This both is and isn't true. Many of the top schools are in the Northeast, where this is true almost without exception. "


Good clarification! The schools I am referring to were the East Coast elites: NESCACs, the places like Emory, Haverford / Swarthmore Div 3 Schools are the type I was referring to. They state clearly that all aid is need based.


However, there is a bit of a flaw to the way we rate colleges that makes it seem that there are only top notch schools in the Northeast. Many schools outside of that region give a good deal of merit aid. My school does that to steal kids from the Ivies in particular (like me).[/QUOTE]


Yeah us Northeasterners are elitist academic snobs aren't we?!!

quote:

Many schools outside of that region give a good deal of merit aid. My school does that to steal kids from the Ivies in particular (like me).

Wouldn't this result in the particular school's academic reputation decreasing? I find it hard to believe that a school would give out money just to get a kid not to attend another school. Admissions doesn't work like athletic recruiting.

JH:

I'm not exactly clear on what you're getting at.

Admissions wise, all of my last choices wanted to know what other schools I was looking at and how much money they were giving me. Each one that gave me merit aid subsequently increased the aid to try to become the best deal. Finally one of them increased the most and that happened to be my favorite school anyway.


The point wasn't to prevent me from going to school X, they just wanted me to go to their own school.

Does that make more sense?

Interesting. So some admissions do work like recruiting. Thanks for the lesson, you learn something new everyday!

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
Interesting. So some admissions do work like recruiting. Thanks for the lesson, you learn something new everyday!

It really felt like recruiting on a few of the trips. I was given rides, met the Presidents of a couple colleges, one school reimbursed my travel, and a couple gave me gift cards to the bookstore.

I put in my enrollment deposit after the President of my college called my cell phone and talked to me for about twenty minutes. The oddest part was that he called around 9:30 at night, that's borderline rude! :P

quote:

Originally posted by J H:

quote:

Many schools outside of that region give a good deal of merit aid. My school does that to steal kids from the Ivies in particular (like me).

Wouldn't this result in the particular school's academic reputation decreasing? I find it hard to believe that a school would give out money just to get a kid not to attend another school. Admissions doesn't work like athletic recruiting.

JH,

Perhaps you can explain why you assume the academic reputations of those "snobby" NE schools are helped by their decision to offer only need-based aid.

Doesn't it stand to reason that a school that gives discounts to great students will get more great students? A school that says it wants the best students and backs it up by offering merit aid has more academic credibility.

The most probable connection between the NE schools' price-fixing scheme and academic merit is the likelihood they will drive away the truly elite students for whom money is a consideration. They'll still get lots of strong students who think the brand name is worth the cost, but in many cases they drive away the middle class academic elites and and settle instead for the social elite.

I'd match the academic reputation of the Midwest D3 I attended, which offers a lot of merit aid, to that of any of the New England D3's.