Tiny Tim in Trouble

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM

where does it say Linsecum is a "pothead"????

was not charged with using

It didn't say, I said it. People who smoke pot are potheads, at least where I come from.

You must think a friend left the stuff in his car and he was in a hurry (speeding) trying to get it back to him.

quote:

Would you want anybody to know what you are taking for your health??
Or is it your own business?

Well, if you get caught speeding, your car reeks of it, and you have it in your possession, you lose all rights to keep it a secret!

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:

quote:

I am against the use of any illegal drug. And I am against the abuse of those that are legal.

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Good point there. I am curious though that as parents how many of us dont think that underage drinking is less of a law breaker than smoking weed? Just curious because we have had that discussion on here plenty and most people figured their kids would try alcohol at college before they turned 21.
There have been several threads about undergae drinking on here, so I am just curious to what you all think.

Underage drinking is against the law and the law varies in different states for minors. Here in FL you could go to jail for open container (MIP), in SC it's a ticket. Getting caught with alcohol and drugs are both illegal, with drugs the smaller amount is considered for personal use, so it carries a smaller fine and punishment.

I get a kick out of parents who say their kids don't drink in college, perhaps it's just not something they tell you or you have seen. It's the same way for other illegal substances. Very available and these kids are away from home for the first time.

CD, doubt that Tim will get suspended. A milb player would get a 50 game suspension, I don't really see the difference, they are all employed by the same organization, but that's how it goes. Is this the carrot they hang over you, if you get on the 40 man roster, you can do anything? Just some thoughts, seems that we, as a society just don't teach the right lessons.

“Half of all heroin users initially used marijuana” is a statement that if made by any serious student of statistics or logic, would result in an “F”. It ranks right up with “90 percent of all alcoholics initially drank mother’s milk”.

The correct question is what is the rate at which marijuana users graduate to harder drugs?

An extensive 30 year study and subsequent (1989) report by Brook, Gordon, Brook, & Cohen discovered that 9.1 percent of marijuana users who began using prior to age 15 moved up to heroin within 30 years. 1.1 percent who began using after age 20 moved up to heroin.

A 1972 US Government study, 1970 Canadian Government Study and a 1972 Consumer Union Study, each being the largest that each entity has undertaken, all report no direct link causal link between marijuana and heroin.

In reality, as demonstrated by the White House white paper on drug use, false claims like the “gateway” myth and ineffective programs like the “Just say no” campaign may harm efforts to control the spread of drug use. It reported that truth and facts, rationally presented, work far better to keep young people from initial use.

I am not pro marijuana, cocaine, heroin, alcohol or any drug. Rather, I am in favor or presenting the facts and not giving in to the hysteria that historically has accompanied US anti drug efforts from the early 1900’s when heroin was declared a precursor to marijuana use, to the classic “Refer Madness” propaganda film, and to the paranoia of the Johnson and Nixon administrations.

I have two sons in their mid 20’s who say they have never tried drugs and I have been given no reason to doubt them. They are both amazingly successful in their careers for their age and lead good lives. I’m sure they and I have made mistakes getting to this point in our lives, but I believe overall that I, like Bum, owe any success to raising them honestly and teaching them to make to make good decisions and making them aware that they are personally responsible for the consequences of any bad decisions.

What Tim did was illegal and in my view ethically wrong. I am not, however his judge. If he is not held to the consequences of his actions, I will find fault in the legal system and MLB, not him.

I don’t believe his behavior as a role model can even approach the effect that television, music and peers have on our kids. Our attention and efforts in this area would be better directed at those things over which we can exercise some control.

quote:

I get a kick out of parents who say their kids don't drink in college, perhaps it's just not something they tell you or you have seen. It's the same way for other illegal substances. Very available and these kids are away from home for the first time.

Sorry TPM, but I'm gonna nominate that as one of the most ridiculous comments of the day. Believe it or not, their are parents who trust their kids and kids who are honest with their parents and don't drink in college.

I can tell you with 100% assurance Bum, Jr. does not.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:

quote:

I am against the use of any illegal drug. And I am against the abuse of those that are legal.

.

Good point there. I am curious though that as parents how many of us dont think that underage drinking is less of a law breaker than smoking weed? Just curious because we have had that discussion on here plenty and most people figured their kids would try alcohol at college before they turned 21.
There have been several threads about undergae drinking on here, so I am just curious to what you all think.

Two things.

1. Social repercussions. A caught drinking will probably get a shrug of the shoulders from an adult and a "too bad". Caught with pot, people won't treat you the same. It's kind of the same talk I have with them about tattoo's. Why would you want to, for no other reason than self indulgence, alienate a large portion of the population before they ever got a chance to know you?

2. The worse drug...hands down, without a doubt, not even close for second place, alcohol. And that's with only one emotion in the mix, anger. Ask any charter captain you know, if they'd rather have a group of people on their boat overserved or stoned, 10 out of 10 will tell you they want the stoned crowd. Alcohol is a drug that leads to many fatalities, injuries, jail, abuse. Pot doesn't really do that. Alcohol is the worst drug problem our society has.

quote:

Originally posted by workinghard:

quote:

I get a kick out of parents who say their kids don't drink in college, perhaps it's just not something they tell you or you have seen. It's the same way for other illegal substances. Very available and these kids are away from home for the first time.

Sorry TPM, but I'm gonna nominate that as one of the most ridiculous comments of the day. Believe it or not, their are parents who trust their kids and kids who are honest with their parents and don't drink in college.

That's ok if you think it is ridiculous, that's just my opinion.
It has nothing to do with not trusting or trusting your kids at college. When they go off they are on their own, I can only hope they make good decisions and if something happens they have to pay the consequences.
If I asked my kids if they drank when underage and they said no, that didn't mean I beleived them.

You see, I was once in college myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

I have two sons in their mid 20’s who say they have never tried drugs and I have been given no reason to doubt them. They are both amazingly successful in their careers for their age and lead good lives. I’m sure they and I have made mistakes getting to this point in our lives, but I believe overall that I, like Bum, owe any success to raising them honestly and teaching them to make to make good decisions and making them aware that they are personally responsible for the consequences of any bad decisions.

Although good in theory, your presentation to them had nothing to do with whether they were to become addicts. No amount of logic or reason can sway the future abuser.

Nature or nurture, I think there's an argument to be made for both. Native Americans have been shown to have genetic defaults that predispose them. Others come from backgrounds that left them as "egomaniacs with an inferiority complex" (which is a very apt description of an addict).

Rather than credit your style of honest teachings about drugs, I would credit the holistic manner in which your family is guided and operates. Your families interactions are counter to the incubator of an addict.

I've seen great kids with everything going for them hit the bottle/pill/pipe/needle, and kids raised from drug addicted parents, abused and neglected, become model citizens unaffected by the disease.

Rather than attribute a specific to the path your children are on, it's a lot of basic humanity mixed with a good amount of, There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Addiction is about not being able to handle the self perception of who you are. That perception is about as real as the boogie man, but to the addict, it's a fact, and he can't deal with it. He has to make it go away, and that means escape from reality, numbness.

Is that perception caused by chemical imbalances or instilled by parental/social effect? I'm not smart enough to know, I just recognize it when I see it.

Sorry about the sermon.

You've missed the point. But that's okay. I see no need to rehash.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
[QUOTE]Booze, drugs, maybe it *** or gambling.... Pick your poision who knows what will comsume you.

Ahem. If *** is poison, theEH, we're all doomed! Or at least our parents are!

Interesting thread!

Not much to add as we all recognize what an uphill battle the issue of "role models" and when they fall short. (no pun intended) :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
You've missed the point. But that's okay. I see no need to rehash.

When I read your first sentence, I thought, OH NO, My wife is on HSBBW! But after I read your next two sentences, I realized it couldn't possibly be her. (If you tell her I said that, I'm gonna get bruised)

quote:

Addiction is about not being able to handle the self perception of who you are. That perception is about as real as the boogie man, but to the addict, it's a fact, and he can't deal with it. He has to make it go away, and that means escape from reality, numbness.

Is that perception caused by chemical imbalances or instilled by parental/social effect? I'm not smart enough to know, I just recognize it when I see it.

Sadly, sometimes it is a combination of both.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
I see no need to rehash.

That's right, Jimmy03. Just say no.

cplz

good stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by johnny appleseed:

I have to disagree that marijuana is a gateway drug. I understand everyone's point that marijuana can lead to other drugs. However, I believe that the person is more responsible for taking other drugs besides marijuana. I believe a person who does marijuana is more inclined to try other things because of his openness to try drugs. I do not think that doing marijuana will cause people to try and "move up" to something more harsh.

Also, marijuana is no where close to being as addictive as cigarettes. Although it has been shown that marijuana can be addictive, there is absolutely no evidence to show that marijuana is more addicting than cigarettes.

If Tim Lincecum keeps smoking pot his life will not be destroyed. Bill Walton smoked pot in college to calm his nerves and nothing bad ever happened to him. I think it is a mistake to believe that people's lives will be ruined because you do not agree with their choices. I understand it is illegal but if you have been paying attention the legalization of marijuana has been gaining ground, and now in many states marijuana possession has become similar to a traffic ticket.

I completely agree here. The biggest problem is that marijuaa is illegal but isn't addictive and destructive like cigarets and booze.

To say marijuana is a gateway drug? I can't wrap my arms around this since pot and other addictive narcotics are completely different and have no connection to one another other than being illegal.

In fact, I'd bet if pot were legalized, you'd have less people involved in other hardcore narcotics because there's probably a ton of people who'd be satisfied just toking on the herb and the govt can collect huge tax revenues like they do with cigs and booze to stimulate the economy.

Just curious ZW, is this what you teach your kids?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:
Just curious ZW, is this what you teach your kids?

Coach,
That sounds like you are challenging ZW's wisdom.

In the spirit of honesty, ZW's assessment seems to be that. You may argue his conclusion, but it's not unreasonable or disingenious.

To try and paint marijuana as a drug as dangerous as alcohol or tobacco would be leaving the truth out of the conversation. Marijuana use carries legal consequences the others don't, while alcohol and cigarettes carry destructive consequences much greater than that of marijuana.

Making a child understand the realistic differences is not condoning or minimalizing illegal use and may serve to maintain the parents role as a credible authority on the subject...IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:
JP,

I don't believe anyone is suggesting marijuana causes a person to move up the illegal drug ladder...but, what it most certainly is, is a drug that precedes stronger drug usage...

So, let me get this straight...since Bill Walton smoked pot to calm his nerves are you saying that kids should do the same?...just asking, cause that's what it's sounding like to me...

No I was just stating that Bill Walton did it because people are saying that using marijuana will cause people's lives to crumble, which I obviously disagree with. Bill Walton's life is not in any way messed up.

No moralizing here...I am not questioning anyone's beliefs, but yes, I am questioning someone's judgment when they know young men read this board and still minimize marijuana use by putting it into print...this is bad judgment...and I'm not being disingenuous...this is what I believe...it's just my opinion that is built upon a lifetime of experiences of exposure to the dark side of drug and alcohol abuse.

Those who fail to understand marijuana is a gateway drug are naive of the dangers to others...what this drug can lead too and has led to...they just don’t get it.

Minimizing the additive nature of marijuana and pointing to successful people who have used it and that 'they are okay' does not justify its usage to me. People who smoke pot need help not admiration...

In an adult only message board I could somewhat understand this attitude because we would all be consenting adults. Since I am a ‘live and let live’ kinda of guy, I would normally care less and not be so passionate about this subject, but since there are minor children and young men who can be easily influenced by older people’s attitudes...and who often read these boards I find this cavalier attitude toward the illegal use if marijuana unacceptable.

Who am I you say to be so judgmental? Nobody, but a father who loves his children, a retired police officer who has seen lives destroyed (yes, even by excessive use of marijuana) and a baseball coach who teaches young men by my word and deed. If I am dismissive and cavalier about marijuana use...I am certain they will be too. And I will not be responsible for leading any young man down that path by my dismissive attitude.

Could a young man become a drug abuser and addict of hard drugs anyway? Of course he could, but I'll be darn if I'm going to let that happen because I had a 'so what' attitude toward marijuana.

Let me ask you guys this question?

I am an airline pilot. I fly an airliner that carries up to 180 people. These good people put their lives in my hands, trust my ability and believe I have the judgment to safely transport them across this beautiful country. How would they feel?...how would you feel if you or your children were flying on an airplane with me at the controls if you knew I was a 'recreational' user of marijuana? Would it be okay if I only did it on my days off and when off duty in the hotel between flights? Would you still trust my judgment and skill?

If I were to be caught and most certainly would with random drug testing, my life would be ruined...I would not be allowed to fly again...I would be unemployed and un-hirable in any other position of responsibility...probably for the remainder of my life.

Young men face some serious risks at crucial points in their lives and need responsible adults with a steady hand guiding them...to some degree at least...I believe some of these young men are reading all of our words...will your words guide them or mislead them?

We have been entrusted with raising, coaching and teaching them...if they are busted with marijuana in school, on a traffic stop, at a football game...their lives can be changed forever...I am not going to be responsible with a cavalier attitude toward an illegal drug for them to have the same attitude...and then subsequently being caught up in a situation that has future dire consequences for them.

For the record, I don't care what anyone's personal opinion is about drug use...that's their opinion, but when it comes to being in an environment where young men are going to read my words and possibly emulate my attitude...then yes, I do have a problem.

If this post has offended any of you I humbly apologize, but I believe we have a greater responsibility in teaching and demonstrating responsibility to young men and assisting them to become as successful as they possibly can.

Coach Waltrip, you don't have to apologize. But how many young people's lives have been messed up because marijuana is illegal? Thrown in jail, hassled by the police, etc. In my day, I remember a policeman coming to to my school (elementary) actually telling the group of us that marijuana would give you brain damage. Brain damage!

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because it is illegal you, if caught, you are left with social stigma, perhaps stripped of your command as a pilot.. and the same is true if you're a baseball player. Kicked off the team, perhaps.

Is it right?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. The truth is, marijuana is FAR LESS damaging than alcohol, than cigarettes, than almost every other drug both legal and illegal.

Is it a dead end for a baseball player? Absoulutely. They should be studying, playing, practicing, not stoning. But I will not sit here and condemn anyone for smoking marijuana. To me, save the illegality, it is far too inconsenquential.

Bum,

I appreciate your perspective and understand it...at least to some degree...as well as others who have posted.

The unfortunate delimma in these types of dicussions is that it is illegal, which, as you correctly pointed out has social consequences. Because it is illegal a college recruiter, a bb scout and others have to question the judgment of a kid who is caught doing it. They think, if this kid will break the law smoking pot, what other laws are they going to break?

But Bum, since marijuana has been proved to have caused short term memory loss would this not be brain damage?

There are consequences for repeated use of the stuff. Lack of motivation, failure to fully mature and as I have pointed out...can lead to other illegal and dangerous drugs. Will everyone who use marijuana become addicted to harder drugs? Of course not, but marijuana has and can be drustructive to one's personal ambitions, desires and outlook on life. I'm saying 'could' because it's not going to happen to everyone, but it has to enough people I have been a front row witness too that I know it usage is a deadend...this goes for excessive alcohol use as well...the most widely used and legal drug in America.

Gotta go fly now...and I want America to know, I am clean and sober!

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"Gotta go fly now...and I want America to know, I am clean and sober."

If you wanted to go to Jellystone with us Coach all you had to do was ask!




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Coach,
Although we can disagree about items like marijuana being a gateway drug, your stance seems very much like an ends justify the means argument.

You characterize a cold light of day assessment of marijuana as cavalier and then chastise those that offer the assessment as contributing to the delinquency. Whether there are young people reading this board or not, they shouldn't be misled or lied to.

We grew up in a nation where marijuana was listed as a drug. Just the same as heroin, cocaine, etc. Carries almost the same social stigma in most circles. With alcohol legal, isn't this hypocrisy? Shouldn't our young people be brought up without abnormal predisposition and some skewed perception? What is wrong with young people asking valid questions? Maybe it's time the social stigma and illegality of marijuana was erased? Maybe not. But aren't we better off as a society if we deal with the issues factually and don't have to overcome the ignorance of unsubstantiated and hypocritical teachings.

Lets teach our kids the right things. One of them, is not to be hypocrites and deal with issues based in reality.

In rural Saskatchewan, there is a whole culture there that believes that Hurricanes are caused by rocket launches like the Shuttle into space. You can't tell them differently, because their Momma and Daddy brought 'em up believing it and their neighbors swear it's true. Is that who we want our kids to be?

quote:

Originally posted by johnny appleseed:

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:
JP,

I don't believe anyone is suggesting marijuana causes a person to move up the illegal drug ladder...but, what it most certainly is, is a drug that precedes stronger drug usage...

So, let me get this straight...since Bill Walton smoked pot to calm his nerves are you saying that kids should do the same?...just asking, cause that's what it's sounding like to me...

No I was just stating that Bill Walton did it because people are saying that using marijuana will cause people's lives to crumble, which I obviously disagree with. Bill Walton's life is not in any way messed up.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in terms of using successful people as an excuse to use drugs. Marijuana is a drug!! As of right now, it is an illegal drug!! If this poster (I am assuming johnny is an adult) can use a sports figure as an exuse to justify using drugs, think about all the kids who can and will do it as well.

I think we can talk philosophically about drug use, but bottom line, I DO NOT WANT MY SON TO DO IT AT ALL!! Regardless of whether some on here think marijuana is a less destructive drug than some others out there, it is still a drug and there are effects as a result of the use of it. I do not condone drug use of any kind.

Coach Waltrip, I completely agree with you. BUM, you did not answer Coach's question. Would you want to be a passenger in a plane that Coach was flying if he was under the influence of marijuana?

I'll also ask, would you want or encourage your child to smoke pot? AND like it or not, it is illegal and there are consequences for it's use. Until the time that it actually becomes legal, there will be lifelong consequences.

When I was a teenager, I was arrested for possession of marijuana. To this day, 30 years later, I have to answer yes to the question and explain what the deal was. My use of this DRUG still affects me to this day and I have not used any drugs for 30 years. I think we all need to look at our attitude towards the use of this and any other drugs - especially when it concerns our kids.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
I do not condone drug use of any kind.

Are you against the use of alcohol of any kind?

While I agree that I don't want my kids doing drugs, that includes alcohol.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
When I was a teenager, I was arrested for possession of marijuana. To this day, 30 years later, I have to answer yes to the question and explain what the deal was. My use of this DRUG still affects me to this day and I have not used any drugs for 30 years. I think we all need to look at our attitude towards the use of this and any other drugs - especially when it concerns our kids.

That is certainly a severe consequence and it is the greatest single reason to avoid marijuana use. This is especially true in todays hard line, unrealistic society.

Calling marijuana a drug though, and giving it the same weight as addictive/destructive drugs like cocaine, meth, heroin, and alcohol, seems wrong. It's a shame that 30 years later, we aren't enlightened enough as a society to see the differences and not stigmatize and brand the user.

This isn't done because the drug is so bad for society and people, it's done because that's the way our parents did it and their parents too. That's unfortunate.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm

http://alcoholism.about.com/od.../a/bldea050426_4.htm


Here are just a couple of links that address the effects of marijuana. There are many studies cited in the articles to back up the claims. Read and decide for yourself. Marijuana is not as harmless as some want to think.

quote:

When I was a teenager, I was arrested for possession of marijuana. To this day, 30 years later, I have to answer yes to the question and explain what the deal was. My use of this DRUG still affects me to this day and I have not used any drugs for 30 years. I think we all need to look at our attitude to wards the use of this and any other drugs - especially when it concerns our kids.

Absolutely true.
One classmate years ago got busted for selling Mary Jane. He graduated teachers college and has never been able to teach full time. He is a (hate to use the tern) supply teacher filling in for others.
Another had a similar problem. Both were top students. Years later when I met them they were always bringing up their problems.
Using MJ is just dumb. I hung around lots of guys who used it. I stayed clear of them.

CPLZ, that does include alcohol. Especially underage drinking. I 100% agree that alcohol is probably the one of the worst drugs out there. And you know what? I do think it is hypocritical that alcohol is legal and the others are not. Alcohol probably kills more people than all others combined. Everytime you drink and step behind the wheel of a car, you are putting your life and the lives of others on the road in jeopardy. Whether iit is hypocritical or not does not change the issue of legal consequences of use or possession of pot.

To answer your question, yes - I do insist that my kids do not drink until they are of legal age. Once they reach legal age, I would prefer that they don't, but won't insist or make a huge deal out of it. Unlike marijuana, alcohol is legal and does not carry with it the legal ramifications pot does - unless you are using it underage or while driving.

Like I said earlier, I still deal with the consequences of my use from 30 years ago. Whether I agree with it's use or not, it is a reality that I do not want my kids to have to deal with. I do not want my son's baseball career to come to an end because he got caught with pot. I don't want him to have to put on his college application that he has been arrested for pot use or possession. Or that he got kicked off the HS baseball team or out of HS because of it's use or possession.

Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the fact that marijuana is illegal, the consequences will be the same in the eyes of the legal system. I personally think it is irresponsible to instill in kids that it is OK to do this even though it is illegal just because you think there is nothing wrong with it. If they get caught, the ramifications will last a lifetime.

From the article...

Marijuana is a gateway drug. In drug law enforcement, rarely do we meet heroin or cocaine addicts who did not start their drug use with marijuana. Scientific studies bear out our anecdotal findings.

Simple statements like this, show why we should not veil our conversations with kids about marijuana use. This statement, in its complete ignorance and inability to actually quote a credible study, completely undermine the credibility of the author and the article. It's the equivalent of asking your kids gym teacher if he thinks your kid has what it takes to be a concert violinist and then claiming an unnamed study shows a link between dodgeball and high level music achievement.

Is that really the effect we want on our kids, to show them that they can't trust what we tell them and we'll just manipulate the facts in the name of protection?

CPLZ, why don't you quote the whole reference? Here it is in it's entirety:

Gateway Drug
Marijuana is a gateway drug. In drug law enforcement, rarely do we meet heroin or cocaine addicts who did not start their drug use with marijuana. Scientific studies bear out our anecdotal findings.
For example, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported, based on a study of 300 sets of twins, that marijuana-using twins were four times more likely than their siblings to use cocaine and crack cocaine, and five times more likely to use hallucinogens such as LSD.

Furthermore, the younger a person is when he or she first uses marijuana, the more likely that person is to use cocaine and heroin and become drug-dependent as an adult. One study found that 62 percent of the adults who first tried marijuana before they were 15 were likely to go on to use cocaine. In contrast, only one percent or less of adults who never tried marijuana used heroin or cocaine.


Sounds like you can find the study in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

...bear out our anecdotal findings.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
“Half of all heroin users initially used marijuana” is a statement that if made by any serious student of statistics or logic, would result in an “F”. It ranks right up with “90 percent of all alcoholics initially drank mother’s milk”.

This was a great response and I couldn't have said it better, so I used Jimmy03's response.


The article infers that their conclusions are the only obvious answer. They are wrong. It shows a complete lack of understanding of what addiction is and who addicts are. The AMA did not reach those conclusions.

This does show how you can manipulate findings to support a flawed stance. The author, who obviously has no background in addiction science, drew the conclusions he wanted either from total ignorance or deliberate untruth.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:

For example, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported, based on a study of 300 sets of twins...

To someone who truly understands addiction, this is the most telling sentence of all. It shows that a predisposition to addiction exists, either genetically or parental/social. The fact that both twins became drug users shows that individuality is a non factor. Those siblings, in their specific circumstance, became addicts, while other siblings, in slightly varied circumstances, were unaffected by the disease.

Let's take that one step further. How surprising is it that the siblings that didn't use marijuana were 4 times less likely to use other, harder drugs? C'mon, that's voodoo science trying to create an argument that marijuana was the cause for greater drug use as a gateway drug.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
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That's it exactly dad43! There was no mention in the article if the state trooper tried to determine if Lincecum's driving ability was impaired. That seems strange to me. Does being under the influence of marijuana impair your ability to drive safely? If yes, then why wasn't Lincecum tested on the spot?

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LOL Stoned guys can do the tests, they just do them very slowly and are hungry when finished!

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Since the test involves a large bag of these and an empty interrogation room...

DO NOT OPEN THIS PACKAGE UNDER PENALTY OF LAW!

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Their guilt is easy enough to determine!






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TPM and others:

What defines a pothead? A guy/gal who smokes once in awhile?

What defines an alcoholic in your mind ? A guy/gal who has a couple of drinks a day ?

Everyone sees things differently--some even send PM's/emails regarding people they see having a drink

Yes I drink !
Yes I did drugs!

My wife and I enjoy a drink in the evening as we discuss the days activites---what the h e l l is wrong with that !!!

We do it at home---if we go out for dinner -she won't drink so that we have a "clean driver"--I raely drive anymore due to health reasons anyway

I am not here to tell you what to do or not to do or to criticize anyone for what they do but please don't call a kid a pothead when the police did not nail him for being high---

TPM --your cynical attitude toward me is appreciated but please get off your high horse and realize that there is a world out there besides the small one you live in

I cannot swear that my boys, or daughters for that matter, did or did not drink in HS or college !! Can you ?

If you say you can then you are more naive that I thought

Just my two cents---BTW way I do not believe in "gateway drugs", be it booze or weed---it all has to do with the make up of the individual in question---some genetic make ups are prone to going further---others are able to control what they do--others cannot-look at those who are *** addicts who ruin their family life---are they any different from any other addict---they get high--highh on *** !!!!


Think about it folks

TRhit, CPLZ and others who lean more on one side of this argument than I do. I am by no means critizing your views or beliefs. My point, beyond all others, is that smoking and possessing marijuana is still illegal and there are a myrad of consequences for it's use and possession as a result of that fact alone.

I, personally, am not trying to make a point as to whether smoking pot is good or not good, moral or not moral, addictive or not addictive, a gateway drug or not a gateway drug, etc... I am simply making the point that it is illegal and our kids could have life lasting consequences as a result of partaking. I have lived it and continue to suffer the consequences and just don't want my kids to have to deal with what I have dealt with. Plain and simple.

Do I believe that everyone that smokes pot will become a drug addict? Nope. Do I think that everyone who smokes pot will become a total stoner? Nope. Do I think that everyone who smokes pot is a bad person? Nope. Do I think that everyone who gets caught smoking or possessing pot will have a criminal record for the rest of their lives that will not go away and have to be explained? Yep!

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"...others cannot-look at those who are *** addicts..."

Avert your eyes folks! Avert your eyes!















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quote:

Originally posted by bballman:

quote:

Originally posted by johnny appleseed:

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:
JP,

I don't believe anyone is suggesting marijuana causes a person to move up the illegal drug ladder...but, what it most certainly is, is a drug that precedes stronger drug usage...

So, let me get this straight...since Bill Walton smoked pot to calm his nerves are you saying that kids should do the same?...just asking, cause that's what it's sounding like to me...

No I was just stating that Bill Walton did it because people are saying that using marijuana will cause people's lives to crumble, which I obviously disagree with. Bill Walton's life is not in any way messed up.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in terms of using successful people as an excuse to use drugs. Marijuana is a drug!! As of right now, it is an illegal drug!! If this poster (I am assuming johnny is an adult) can use a sports figure as an exuse to justify using drugs, think about all the kids who can and will do it as well.

I think we can talk philosophically about drug use, but bottom line, I DO NOT WANT MY SON TO DO IT AT ALL!! Regardless of whether some on here think marijuana is a less destructive drug than some others out there, it is still a drug and there are effects as a result of the use of it. I do not condone drug use of any kind.

Coach Waltrip, I completely agree with you. BUM, you did not answer Coach's question. Would you want to be a passenger in a plane that Coach was flying if he was under the influence of marijuana?

I'll also ask, would you want or encourage your child to smoke pot? AND like it or not, it is illegal and there are consequences for it's use. Until the time that it actually becomes legal, there will be lifelong consequences.

When I was a teenager, I was arrested for possession of marijuana. To this day, 30 years later, I have to answer yes to the question and explain what the deal was. My use of this DRUG still affects me to this day and I have not used any drugs for 30 years. I think we all need to look at our attitude towards the use of this and any other drugs - especially when it concerns our kids.

Bballman, I am actually 18 years old. I will take you assuming me to be an adult as a compliment. So depending on people's definition of an adult, I may be an adult, or still a child who cannot make responsible decisions so I need an older, more mature person to let me know what the most responsible choice is, such as Coach Waltrip .

I never used Bill Walton as an excuse to use marijuana. I am not using a sports figure to justify using drugs. If you reread what I said, I stated that marijuana use did not destroy Bill Walton's life. I am trying to say that although there are people who lose control of their lives because of drugs, there are as many people who are in complete control of their lives who use marijuana.

So everyone here agrees that alcohol is a drug. How would you like if a pilot occasionally drank alcohol, or as Coach Waltrip states, was a 'recreational" user of alcohol? Would it be okay if he only did it on his day off? What is the difference between using alcohol and using marijuana on off days? If the true argument here is about the drug aspect, and not the legality of the issue, what is the difference?

It would be stupid to risk a criminal record whether you are an athlete or not.
I once tried to cross the border with a friend who had the same name as a pro hockey player with a criminal record. They wouldn't let him in to the US. I had to call a friend in the NY Treasury Dept to get him in.
You can't get into the Us or Canada with a criminal record.