If you hit you don't sit.
@nycdad posted:If you hit you don't sit.
Yep
I’m the dad of a 5’10” RHP, who in the world of baseball is known as a commodity. Not projectable, not over 6’, not left handed, doesn’t throw 100 and weighs 170lbs. He was never the biggest, best or fastest player on any of his teams. I love my kid and I know I always thought he was a good player. When other people start seeing it (talent) and telling you and he separates himself from the pack, you’ll know it. Foster that development and don’t pigeon hole him. Best of luck to you and your son.
You’re not being trolled. I’m speaking from experience of going through the high school journey with two kids playing three sports and the college baseball and softball journey. I’ve also been a travel baseball, softball and basketball coach.
Between personal experience and this board do you know how many of these stories I’ve seen/heard? 95% of them are from a parent with the wrong take on reality.
The other catcher looks the physical part. Your son doesn’t. Your son isn’t hitting. He’s only a freshman. The coach wants to win. What part of this are you not getting? It doesn’t mean he can’t play. It means he needs to do more.
By the way, the #1 poster on the board isn’t a troll. It’s a woman who knows as much as anyone on this board about baseball and more than most.
DanJ: For most of us, we were the ones in the backyard playing catch and everything else with our kids since age 4 or whatever. Our evaluation/assessment of our kids isn't necessary wrong so much as it's unrealistically comprehensive.
This is a diamond of wisdom.
@RJM posted:The coach’s priority is to win ball games.
What a horrible coach. I can’t imagine any player wanting to play for this misguided coach!
I can see a huge flaw in your thinking. You believe it’s the coach’s responsibility to develop your son. A typical high school baseball season has two to two and a half hour practices three times a week.
Maybe you’re not aware of this. The best players develop away from the game. They practice more away from the team than with the team. They arrive prepared to win a position.
What catching drills are there your son and you can’t develop on your own? Don’t know the catching position? Get. A video, learn from it and work with your son. In eighth grade my son would want to practice with me after middle school games. Because he played a fall sport and travel fall ball we practiced baseball after his fall sport practices.
Does your son have the passion or the preference to play? I only see preference. Everyone prefers to play. Then they make excuses when they don’t. There may be some bias in the coach. But I see excuses more than anything else.
The other catcher may be better. But there is nothing stopping your son from getting the coach in the thinking mode of, “I have to play this kid somewhere.” Nothing, except his passion for the game.
My son got temporarily screwed in another high school sport. It was definitely bias and politics. Rather than make excuses he decided he wasn’t going to allow it to happen. He worked through the issue. He told me to get over it. If I discussed the situation with anyone he would get pissed at me.
When my son graduated from high school and college I looked back and thought how perfect was the experience. It netted out that way. What I’m reminded of by complaining posters/parents on this site is the adversity he fought through to make it seem perfect.
You don’t lose when you get knocked down. You lose when you choose not to get up.
This is an ironic post.
My son was lucky to become friends with a person who has raised as far as one can go in scouting at the MLB level. I've heard him time and time again say the kids here are at a huge disadvantage because at almost every level there is almost no player development. He gave examples of Russian women's tennis, DR baseball, and one other sport where emphasis on development pays off. How here it's win and development takes a back seat.
Ironic the opinion of this poster, who thinks they have it all figured out, lines up with what a director of scouting thinks is wrong with baseball in north america.
If you are serious about baseball you'd be well advised not to look here for advice. Because it's full of people who think they know, but don't know. Well maybe somewhat at the LL, HS, and maybe some college level. But my son has afforded me an insight into the highest level, and this person, along with most here, have no clue.
And, as one can easily see in the quoted post. This site is almost now only how much more "woke" and "enlightened" I am and how well we/my son handled adversity.
I’m as anti woke as anyone can be. Almost everyone faces adversity at some point in time whether it’s baseball, another sport or life. There are two options. 1) Man up and face it or 2) Whine and melt. If you want something you pursue it with a passion. You don’t expect anyone to hand it to you.
@SomeBaseballDad if you truly believe anyone serious about baseball would be well advised not to look here for advice, you’ve got an optics problem. 5,000+ posts rating here on HSBBW? I respect a diverse range of opinions, but when someone spends a lot of time somewhere that they recommend others DON’T spend their time, yeah, the optics simply look bad. “Don’t go to HSBBW. It sucks. I’ll be back tomorrow.” SMH
While HSBBW is far from perfect, I think it’s largely a gold mine. A largely unparalleled resource where real people come and share their experiences and opinions. I have lots of baseball parent friends that are ignorant to so much of what this incredible complex process and environment is actually like. Anyone ignoring the wealth of information available here is blind to so much and increasing their kid’s odds of not seeing the success they desire.
To the original poster, I think I already stated the importance of growing a thick skin, but I’m not sure it resonated well enough. I’ll say it again. Grow a thick skin and work to do it as soon as possible. I have nothing against you and hope for nothing but the best for you and your son. I want to help if I can. But, yes, some people here - myself included - are picking up on some tell tale signs. Warning signs. I don’t see too many here so when they pop up, they’re fairly easy for some to pick up on. And some people - myself included - feel there’s a poisonous nature to some of them. If some people here are identifying things about you and your situation that stand to handcuff your son’s situation, I’d strongly consider listening. Closely. You’re here for your son. That’s great. But if tougher comments are enough to sour you, I can’t like your kid’s chances. It’s a jungle out there. People here truly understand that. And the straight dope in this jungle is very hard to come by. I had a boss who classified people into 3 types: I can’ts, I cans and I wills. I hear - what I consider to be - too much I can’t in your responses. If people here are trying to help you get to I can (and eventually I will), I’d listen. Closely. Your son is a freshman. You may not have a good sense of how far he (and you) will travel over the next 3 years. I sure didn’t. Perspective - much of it very tough to swallow - will be thrust upon you and your son over the next 3 years. If you listen to people here with a truly open mind, a lot of it won’t be a surprise when it inevitably comes.
I think the OP deleted their account. I can’t click on it.
You seem to have had all the answers all along. Not sure why you even asked on here unless you were just seeking validation. Good luck
Nick;
can you list 5 qualities of a successful HS Baseball Coach?
Bob
Thank you. You listed 5 qualities for a successful College Coach earning $100,000 per year.
You did not mention "communication" and "teaching the real game of baseball".
For example; when your son catches can he "read the bat"?
Bob
@Consultant Ah, you must be the good cop 
Sure lots of qualities that one could hope for in a coach. Leadership would have been a good one too. I get what you are saying. In reality, this feed never really went the direction I was hoping for. Just contemplating options with summer around the corner. The path most taken is not always the best path for an individual. Honestly, I couldn’t care less the why just not a fan of being called a lier or or assumptions being made about the quality or character of my kid, myself or really anyone else.
Not familiar with the term, “read the bat” as it pertains to catching. I’m also not the catcher. Thanks for perspective.
@Nick0977 posted:@Consultant Ah, you must be the good cop
Not familiar with the term, “read the bat” as it pertains to catching. I’m also not the catcher. Thanks for perspective.
Bob has a baseball life that’s incredible and his observations/perspective are always interesting. If you stay on this board I would encourage you to read the bios of the posters whenever you strongly agree (or disagree) with their posts. That can sometimes be helpful in determining how much weight to give what they have to say - and it can also be enlightening to find out the experiences/accomplishments of many members of HSBBW.
Nick;
"read the bat"!
the catcher watches the "on deck" hitter practice swings.
If he is swinging up, the catcher will call for "high" fastball. As a parent you can provide the opportunity for your son to study, observe and prepare for the next level of competition.
Bob
Bob,
Good stuff. He has called his games quite a bit for the last few years, but I hadn’t heard the term. He does talk about pitch selection with his catching coach and frequently calls for an up and in pitch for swinging strike three. Could be. I am merely the Chief Transportation Officer and head cheerleader. Thank you again and I appreciate the civility.
@Nick0977 Listen, either you want help and input or you don’t. I get the sense you’re READING every word that is being sent your way, but I’m not sure you’re truly HEARING it. If you find yourself scoffing at some of the comments and formulating your rebuttal AS YOU’RE READING them, then I’d argue you’re not truly hearing what is being said. I know a few people who will be the first in the room to SAY “I’m not perfect.” But those same people are never the ones to offer up their actual imperfections FIRST, if ever. Simply saying “I’m not perfect” is all they’re willing to admit. They never are interested in going any deeper than that statement. “Listen, I know I’m not perfect.” and “I never said I was perfect.” Anybody ever hear these statements and immediately ready themselves for the inevitable “but...”
So when I hear you say it was never about “ability, toughness, heart, drive, work ethic” and then I hear you ask for ideas on how to “skip the BS,” it makes me wonder how deeply you’ve truly thought about this. If the ability, the toughness, the heart, the drive and the work ethic are all there, why is there even a need/desire to SKIP the BS? You know what bulldozes right THROUGH the BS? Ability, toughness, heart, drive, work ethic. Those things have been making BS it’s b!tch for eons. Imagine the skill set your son would have if he worked THROUGH this BS instead of trying to circumnavigate it. That skill will write checks for him his whole life when he inevitably finds BS lurking in every corner.
Last piece of advice. If you sincerely want what’s best for your son now and throughout his life, I’d recommend listening MOST to the advice that is TOUGHEST to hear. That’s one of the beauties of this site. People don’t have to candy coat anything here because they’ll never be face to face with you. They can skip the warm fuzzies and just get down to the issue. Things you could never do with all your friends or family. Imagine all the wins possible if you could just be 100% honest with your friends and family all the time. Talk about skipping the BS - that’d be amazing!
I can’t figure this out. OP asks for “ruthless” feedback, gets it, then claims to be getting trolled.
If academics are important to you, go where the academics are best. If your son wants to play baseball in college he can get there without a stellar HS career. I’ve seen kids this spring committed to a college baseball program and weren’t even starters because there are D1 studs ahead of them.
@DanJ I hear everything you’re saying. I know what my son needs to do to be successful. So does he. I think I was pretty upfront about the challenges before I even dug into the possible bias. The more I read these posts I’ve realized that I couldn’t care less about bias, where my kid plays or how much he plays. The question was legitimate, but for all the wrong reasons. I’m realizing more than ever that my real problem is that I believe that the coach is of low character and I don’t want my son to play for him in any capacity. I just wrote a dissertation on why I feel that way and deleted it. It’s not important, really none of your business and I’m damn sure not going to bother defending myself, but it has nothing to do with playing time or even baseball. I apologize to all of you if I was rude, but this was actually incredibly helpful in a totally unintended way. Weird, but thank you.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I can’t figure this out. OP asks for “ruthless” feedback, gets it, then claims to be getting trolled.
If academics are important to you, go where the academics are best. If your son wants to play baseball in college he can get there without a stellar HS career. I’ve seen kids this spring committed to a college baseball program and weren’t even starters because there are D1 studs ahead of them.
You are absolutely correct. Thanks
I’ll say this, between this site and the dozens of local parents I talk to, there aren’t many who would say they are pleased with their school programs right now. And even with those schools there are several other who say those programs were a terrible experience this year. There is one school where practically half the program was rumored to be transferring because the coach sucked, the depth chart sucks, etc. That team just made it to the final 4 of a big division in FL. Now the transfer rumors are all fading away
@nycdad posted:If you hit you don't sit.
That’s a quaint and cute and often used quote but not necessarily the reality in D1 or the minor leagues, especially if there isn’t money invested in you.
In those places, you could hit and still sit. You might need to hit darn near .450-.500 to replace the top prospects.
As far as a high school freshman? Half the high school freshman won’t even be playing Baseball 2-3 years from now. Go where the best academics are, and try to keep the kid away from the pot dealers.
@TerribleBPthrower Funny how winning changes things for people. Since my kid was three years old he has loved the game of baseball. He’d hammer on me every day to go in the back yard so he could hit the ball over our fence with those big plastic red bats After all of the challenges my son has gone though over that last year or so, I honestly thought it was coming to an end. I couldn’t care less about about wins and loses at this point. He killed it this weekend. Every damn day he steps on the field might as well be the World Series for me. Even threw out a prominent big leaguers son today. They called him safe, but he got him, but who really cares? Thanks for trying to help and I apologize if I was a jerk. Hope you too get to enjoy your son getting it done for as long as the game will let him.
@Nick0977 posted:@DanJ I hear everything you’re saying. I know what my son needs to do to be successful. So does he. I think I was pretty upfront about the challenges before I even dug into the possible bias. The more I read these posts I’ve realized that I couldn’t care less about bias, where my kid plays or how much he plays. The question was legitimate, but for all the wrong reasons. I’m realizing more than ever that my real problem is that I believe that the coach is of low character and I don’t want my son to play for him in any capacity. I just wrote a dissertation on why I feel that way and deleted it. It’s not important, really none of your business and I’m damn sure not going to bother defending myself, but it has nothing to do with playing time or even baseball. I apologize to all of you if I was rude, but this was actually incredibly helpful in a totally unintended way. Weird, but thank you.
Unfortunately there are more than a few HS coaches that I wouldn’t want my son to play for either. Freshman HS baseball is almost always a disappointment. Many families set HS baseball as a milestone target and spent huge amounts of money and time getting prepared for it. Only to find out when they get there that nothing lives up to their expectations. And then they freak out. Playing HS baseball can be a great experience if expectations meet with reality, however IMO it’s rare when that happens. Usually parents expectations are not realistic and it takes time for them to realize that. After that you have to decide if the reality is tolerable for you or whether you need to find a better situation.
It’s not unusual for 14u players and their parents to get to high school ball and wonder “what happened.” Every year since whatever year they’ve been playing travel they’ve been a star. All of a sudden they’re playing 18/19u (high school) ball.The freshman who play varsity are usually physically ahead of the curve.
My experience going through the high school journey twice with baseball and softball was there were a lot of recent 14u studs and studdettes whose parents were frustrated and couldn’t grasp its now 18/19u ball and there are some very good upperclassmen ahead of their kids on the depth chart.
A great question a coach could ask to gain perspective on the parent’s thought process is asking who they believe their kid should be starting over. Chances are the correct answer is, no one.
But despite this there were players receiving college offers before they had a chance to start on varsity. It was a matter of depth on the high school teams. They escaped the depth issue playing on different travel teams.
@Nick0977 posted:@TerribleBPthrower Funny how winning changes things for people. Since my kid was three years old he has loved the game of baseball. He’d hammer on me every day to go in the back yard so he could hit the ball over our fence with those big plastic red bats
When my son was a freshman I cared about winning. There were several “projected” D1 players in his class and a lot of buzz around town about the freshman haul. Covid hit and ended the season. Then he was blessed to get in with some great travel coaches For the summer/fall and it really changed how my wife and I viewed this journey. My son was having the most fun I’d seen in years. HS came this year and I had decent hopes for a good season. That didn’t last long and my hopes turned to the season getting over and my son staying healthy.
He’s back with the summer team and they had their first tournament this weekend. Completely different vibe and my son was had a blast this weekend. Unfortunately he has to turn in an essay tonight by midnight.
I guess my point is there are a lot more bad school programs than good ones. We focused on what we could control most, and that is where he plays summer ball. We had more excitement this weekend than the entire 3.5 months of school ball.
Glad your son had a good weekend. Enjoy the summer season. Whatever you decide for school ball, just remember, your travel team and coaches will likely have a much greater impact on your son’s college recruitment.
I feel sad for you guys. When my son was a freshman, he didn't love his school experience, we had questions, we thought there was bias, didn't understand a lot of what happened. He couldn't quit or move - there was nowhere to go. Four years went by, parts seemed to take forever, now it seems like a blink of an eye.
By senior year, we realized the program was great, his friends were great, his coaches were great, he had learned about baseball and more than baseball, we were really sorry to see it end.
We certainly had our share of ups and downs with travel teams, so I might well say "there are more bad than good travel teams." Funny, there are far fewer discussions about that, I wonder why?
@anotherparent I think if you asked my son he’d say he likes the HS team for all of the reasons you mentioned. He has great teammates and the coaches really seem to like and care about him. For us, it’s more the nonsense outside the fence.
You are right on though with the travel teams. I think that is a little more in the control of the individuals where the school situation isn’t. It took us a few years to find the right fit for a travel team, but we feel like we did. And the team that we feel is a perfect fit will probably be a bad experience for others.
There are a lot of good advice/shared experience here. I will add one more...your kid just experienced a near miss with an injury. I am pleased read he will make a full recovery, but some here were not as fortunate and that closed the window of opportunity for their kid moving to the next level...totally f-ed up. When your kid has a fighting change to comeback from a potential career ending injury, the HS BB politics and drama BS will go away.
The truly funny part in all of this is I feel like I have been programmed to think that my son has to take the beaten path to continue his baseball journey. I get putting in your dues and earning it, but when it’s clear that the guy on the other side of the fence is not a great mentor for your kid it becomes frustrating. The thought of putting this guys name down as my kids advocate if and when he’s recruited turns my stomach. Early on, I stayed for a couple of practices to see what they were doing and watch my kid. Towards the end of practice a few parents and coaches are chatting and the coach is openly trashing some of his current and former players. I’m not talking in good fun trash talk, I’m talking private stuff that I absolutely should not know. I remember being blown away that I’m even privy to this information and that this is the last guy I want my son to play for, but now we’re stuck. About 37 red flags later and I started to talk to people I trust and research the implications of not playing high school ball and still playing in college. Might have even seen something here. The long and short was that if he is able and doesn’t, there better be a good explanation. That was kind of the origin of this feed. When I got a lot of the early responses here it was very much the logic of there must be something wrong with you, the kid or both, I must admit it completely stoked my fears of my kid being stuck. The good news is his summer program has a team that plays in a local JV league and I have built a team of phenomenal coaching professionals that love my kid and will help guide him on his journey. His school is a feeder school to Georgia Tech so many of you were absolutely right, about putting the academics first. If he wants to go back for his Junior or Senior season, that might be an option, but I believe more than ever that this is what’s best for my son.
My son's HS coach and his HS record had NOTHING to do with him getting into college.
Unless your son attends an IMG, an American Heritage, other private known for sports, or a powerhouse public school, follow the recommendations about travel programs and stop worrying about the 37 red flags. Seriously.
Training and tournament play with coaches that have relationships is what's happening in FL, unless your son attends any of the above.
I recommend a member's You tube channel. Josh Rudd, Quarantine Coaches series. Gives you an idea of what coaches are looking for in players.
@TPM I’ll check them out. Thank you.
@Nick0977 just wanted to touch base with you that my original post wasn't meant to be a personal attack.... I was just was trying to convey some ideas from a different point of view.
What age does he play for travel? (sorry if it was already mentioned, thread got very long)
@Nick0977 posted:The thought of putting this guys name down as my kids advocate if and when he’s recruited turns my stomach.
My son's HS coach played for my son's college coach on the cape for two summers however it was my son's travel coach that assisted with the recruitment of my son at his college. His HS coach didn't do anything and that's not to blast him. He's a great guy, he really liked my son, he was a great college player (Big East player of year one year) but he doesn't reach out for his players. For us, it was the travel program that made the biggest difference, not the HS program. That doesn't mean my son didn't like his HS journey, he did very much.
@ReluctantO'sFan posted:@Nick0977 just wanted to touch base with you that my original post wasn't meant to be a personal attack.... I was just was trying to convey some ideas from a different point of view.
What age does he play for travel? (sorry if it was already mentioned, thread got very long)
No problem at all. I completely understand where you were coming from. As I mentioned before, I was off base on the why. He is technically 14U because he’s a young freshman, but is playing 2024/15U this summer.
A lot of us here had the same expectations that @Nick0977 has right now for the high school and coaching experience. The harsh reality for almost all of us, was that our expectations were not at all realistic and looking back, largely laughable. I, too, honestly believed that a good deal of development would be available to my son over the course of his 4 years in HS ball. The reality - that is largely common, if not exclusive - is that no development happened for my son over the last 4 years due to the HS coach and the program. Every piece of development my son got over the last 4 years came from elsewhere. My son had to drive it all. High school baseball mostly was an avenue to have fun and play with friends. This grand vision for what I'd hope it'd entail, was a pipe dream. Knowing that 4 years ago likely would have had me bitter, but today? I simply accept it as reality, so I am not bitter. Of course I still face palm when the coaches do dumb things, but I now have the perspective needed to realize the nothing burger it all is.
Yes, I too once believed that my son's high school baseball would be an integral piece to his recruiting approach. And yes, the coach's name and number was attached to every email my son sent out. My son sent out a lot of emails and established a good number of connections/relationships with coaches and RCs. Guess how many ever reached out to my son's high school coach? Exactly zero. As TPM said above, unless your kid plays for IMG or the like, no one will ever speak to your kid's HS coach.
On my 2021's visit to the JUCO (Jayhawk conference) he's committed to, I asked the HC point blank if he had connected with my son's HS coach. His response? "No, why would I?" He essentially said he doesn't have time to waste speaking with some English teacher pretending to be a baseball coach when he's largely a baby sitter throwing BP and filling out the lineup card for each game. He said there was nothing of any value his HS coach could tell them that he couldn't/wouldn't find out on his own. Not that my kid is some crazy stud, but he was his program's first commit of the 2021 class and got really good money. Coaches really want to know exactly who they're offering their best money to, yet his coach didn't spend 5 minutes calling his HS coach? That right there tells you how incredibly unimportant a HS coach is to 99.9% of college recruits out there. My son was verbally offered after the coach came out to watch him play over a weekend. In the 3 weeks from that verbal offer until we made it down for the visit (and offer specifics), we later learned my son was being "secret shopped" by the HC and his assistants. And all this happened on his travel team - not his HS team.
My son was fortunate enough to get an offer he really liked, so he committed before some likely other ones came in. But when he committed, he had two D2 offers to play both baseball and football (kicker/punter), two JUCO offers for baseball and got pretty close to getting offers from 3 D1s for baseball (thank God he didn't!). So multiple offers and across 2 sports. But his HS baseball and football coaches were never called. Not once. It seems like most everyone understands what HS coaches are except for freshmen parents. That's not a shot - I swear. In 2-3 years, it'll make perfect sense. Believe me when I say that you are not entrusting your son's athletic future to any HS coach.
I will say here in Oklahoma, at least at my son's high school, the high school coach reached out to college coaches and vice versa...I know the exception doesnt disprove the rule and vice versa...but it probably also depends on who the high school coach is...my son's high school coach was a former college coach
DanJ,
So, my son's experience (albeit 10 years) ago did include college coaches calling his high school coach and travel coach. Specifically, these were what I call "character calls" not performance calls. They wanted to know what kind of teammate, leader, and about his academic and athletic work ethic. Additionally, I've known others like my son (who I've helped with HA recruiting) over the years who's high school coaches have received similar calls.
Just my experience....
@Nick0977 posted:No problem at all. I completely understand where you were coming from. As I mentioned before, I was off base on the why. He is technically 14U because he’s a young freshman, but is playing 2024/15U this summer.
2024 class and/or 15/16u is where I would recommend playing him as freshman in HS. Also don't get discourage if it takes a couple years to gain size. Stay in the gym and put some healthy weight on over the next couple years. He can take this time to develop good work-out habits. Staying honest on a training program/weight room can be just as mental as it is physical. Also to note, a break from catching might just be a blessing in disguise. It kills me to watch a great fundamental catcher with a injury prone/weakened arm (personal pet-peeve).
After all, I have personally seen the lack of versatility eliminate opportunities.
Best wishes going forward.....