Tough Decision

Welcome.  Three questions:

- was this freshman, JV, or V team?  were any freshmen pulled up to JV or V?

- did he play other positions this year?

- can he hit?

- No JV at his school so it was Varsity

- He’s versatile and can play anywhere.  Got a few innings at 2B, but kind of part of the problem.  He spent all of his practice fielding time behind the plate.  

- He can hit, but didn’t make the most of his limited opportunities, 0 for 9 in his 9 AB’s on the season.  

So let me get this straight and highlight some points that YOU mention...

#1. Your kid was injured just before the season and "required arm surgery and substantial rehab". This shouldn't require much more thought.

#2. "He is young freshman and a late bloomer". Trust me I understand the statement, but you are using it as an excuse. No successful athlete ever does this, because if they do they won't be successful.

#3. "The other catcher is also very good, but passes the eye test much better.  That I get.  The challenge is more political."  You just contradicted your own statement/thought process??? and really make no sense. The coach seems to playing his better option at catcher.

#4. "They also end every game with conversations with the coach and frequently socialize with the head coach outside of games or practices."  This line of thought is very, very subjective. All I really hear is more and more excuses. Maybe they are good friends, so what. The vast majority of the time it has nothing to do with your kid's playing time. 

#5. "I’m a fair evaluator of my sons talents and weaknesses." I had to slide this one into the conversation. Very, very few parents can honestly evaluate their own kid. That is just a simple truth whether you want to believe it or not.

#6. "I did have a brief conversation with the coach about what he feels would help my son be a more valuable member of the team and his intentions are pretty clear." NO, NO, NO..... This statement doesn't pass the smell test. This is a conversation for which the player needs to have with the coach. This is done in a private manner, and can go along way in building the relationship between the coach and player. Once a parent steps into this role the whole vibe changes.

#7.  "Transferringwill eliminate some valuable academic opportunities."  this is probably the most important thing you wrote and the exact reason I would keep my child in a program. It is pretty safe to say that your kid will likely not make a living playing baseball, and his education will set him up for the future.

My recommendation is to step-back and allow your kid to grow as a person and start learning how to handle situations as they arise. He is the one that needs to build a relationship with the coach. It starts first by showing up, hustling, and being a team-player. None of which require any talent. I could probably pick out a few more things if I took more time, but I just wanted to give you the opportunity to maybe see the issue from a different angle. Bottom-line is that if your kid can catch, but the HS team needs him to play LF, then he plays LF. Ultimately any decent college recruiter/scout understands this. They are not stupid. They can see talent when talent is there.

The frustration can be used as fuel to take his skills to the next level and develop some maturity that most teens lack. There is no safe space from politics, the best cure is to improve and leave no doubt who the best player is on the team, that is as close as being bulletproof on a team. Be supportive on whatever direction he goes, there will be more pitfalls in this journey.

We are in a similar situation after freshman year.  Where we live is affiliated with another school in which my kid would be able to make varsity next year for sure (smaller school), and won a state championship at their classification.  My son is being developed as a catcher, but the catching coach's son is also in his grade.  No chance to catch ahead of him, and most of his playing time this year is at F3.  So, we work on developing his skills at other positions, and take every chance to improve as a F2 even still.  Also, work on hitting the snot out of the ball.  I make sure my kid worries about being the best he can be, making sure he leaves it all on the field.  As far as where he plays, etc., life isn't always fair, but hard work is its own reward.

BTW, the catching coach I referred to (know him quite well) didn't start catching much until his senior year in HS, replacing the injured starting catcher.   During a game, a recruiting coach saw him, and it lead to him getting a small scholarship to a D1 midmajor University as a bullpen catcher.  He ended up working his way on the field and caught quite a few games (again, a couple of injuries ahead of him occurred).  So, things sometimes still work out.

I'd work on being a good overall baseball player vs. a good catcher, and things should work out.  That is the problem of focusing on only one position.  If you transfer to another school and take another catcher's spot, then you may be in the same situation as some of the other parents here (read "Awful HS situation").

I would say stick with the better academic situation based on the details you provided. Have your son talk to the coach and find out if there is a chance for him to play IF next year instead of being a backup catcher. He can work on catching during his own time and during the summer.

Unless your son is a stud, he needs to play other positions and hit the ball. It is extremely hard to be a successful catcher at the next level. That's not to say that he can't attend catching camps over his time at HS to perfect his skills. And spend time in the cage. You just have no clue how difficult catching is in college. You have to be versatile to catch a coaches interest.

Yes, HS sports are political. Your son is a freshman. Get better as a player.  Nothing is going to guarantee if you change schools that he will even catch.

Join a good summer and fall travel team where he will be able to play different positions.

Hit.

Hit hit hit hit hit.

If your son can hit, he will play.  It forces the coach put him somewhere on the field, or DH.  Be versatile.

Going 0-9 doesn't help his case.

Keep working him hard....catch on the summer teams and like others have said if he hits he'll play somewhere. Keep working out get bigger and stronger.  You never know what's going to happen...other kid moves, gets hurt, in trouble etc.

@ReluctantO'sFan dropped some tough love but I think it's important they did.  You're faced with a tough situation for any number of reasons, but if you really want to make the best choice, you'll need to face some tough truths.  I'm not sure "excuses" is the best descriptor.  Maybe.  For the purpose of moving forward, I think it's smarter to call them "challenges."

Before I go any further, I'd be 100% done communicating with the coach.  Reluctant is right.  This is not your job and never will be.  Hopefully it's just happened once and the instance can now begin drying out over time and never occur again.  This is big boy baseball now.  Frankly, the concept of players approaching coaches should have been process that began at age 8 or 9 and was locked down by 12 at the latest.  Regardless, put it behind you.  It is SO not a tool in your kit.

If your kid truly wants to play post-high school, then he needs development and meaningful playing time for the next 3 years.  I'd advise focusing 100% on working the problems and not working the blame or what contributed/s to the problems.

No, do not forego playing high school baseball.  Your son should be able to play both high school and some form of travel ball if you can afford it.  It very well could be the case that his spot on the high school team for the next 3 years doesn't yield a ton of pay dirt for him.  So you then must ensure he gets his elsewhere.  From travel ball, fall ball, lessons, camps, clinics, the gym, the garage, literally anything he can get his hands on outside of his high school team so long as you can afford it.

Catching can be his goal, but understand that goals are something more about working towards them than they are about attaining them.  Catching can be his carrot, but while he's chasing it, he needs to be on the field in some position and at the plate.

Transfer?  I'm not a fan of it, but if you do, it needs to be as close to a guarantee as you can find.  Like I'd want everything short of signed contract saying he'll be the new team's catcher if he transfers.  You'll need to go find a place where exactly what your kid has to offer, is needed.  Without that, stay put and commit to the grind knowing the goal may never be attained.  And to be clear, your son DOES have a legit opportunity to play catcher at his current school.  Does he have a fair opportunity?  Doesn't sound like it.  Seeking fair is chasing a ghost.

My son is smaller and it's undeniably an issue despite measurables and stats that are as good or better than most of his peers.  Fair would dictate he gets just as much as 6'2" kids with equal performances.  But that's nowhere near the case.  We just went through the recruiting gauntlet and we learned that my son needs to smoke the numbers of the 6'2" kid to end up with equal opportunities.  It is what it is.  My son doesn't spend time lamenting his size.  He never brings it up.  He grinds relentlessly with his head down.  After a 3 hour team practice yesterday, he went to the batting cages to hit more and then to the gym to lift.  But that wasn't just yesterday.  It's what he does 7 days a week.  He's hell bent on making his own "fair."  If your son can't find himself in a very similar place, there's an argument to made that he's not cut out for the next level.

One last thing.  When your son goes to the coach, here's the angle I always advise my son to take.  Don't ask "what can I do get more innings behind the plate?"  Ask "can you please help me put a plan together to help me improve my chances of getting more opportunities to get behind the plate?"  Something along those lines.  Don't ask for you WANT.  Ask what you can do to earn the OPPORTUNITY to get what you want.  It might be subtle, but I think it's important.  I think it needs to be clear you're not looking for a hand out.  You're simply looking for the path.  Once you know what the path is, the rest is up to you to deliver on.

Adapt or die.  I agree with others, your son needs to leverage his versatility because it is not going to happen behind the plate unless something unforeseen happens  Find another position.  Focus on it, and hitting.  You'll find the lineup.

So, your story brought back some memories.   So, as a kid I excelled (and loved) two sports....baseball and tennis.  I was a decent catcher, and I thought long and hard about which high school sport I was going to try out for in the Spring.   There was this guy (also a catcher!) in my freshman class who was a "foot taller" and clearly 50 lbs more than I weighed and could hit the snot out of the baseball.  This was my fork in the road as they say.  As a freshman he would be  hitting home runs.   He would be the high school catcher (all state 3 years) for 4 years and get a D1 baseball scholarship.  I believe he was also drafted out of college. Also, I was modestly ranked 12-14 year old tennis player  in New England at the time.  My high school was starting a tennis team my freshman year, and we had a lot of really good players from the area whom I knew real well and had played doubles with in area tournaments.   I knew I could make the team and be among the top three players on the tennis team, so this is the direction I went.   My high school tennis team won the state my sophomore year.  I guess you could look at my decision as a flight or fight decision, but looking back I look at it as "reality check" and "informed pivot".  I think your son can do the same on the baseball team but he has to willing to give up the catching duties to find something new.   

JMO.  Good luck!

Man, seems like some schools don't have anyone decent to put back there and then other schools have too many. One local HS has 4 catchers I'd have no problem playing if I were a coach. One junior, one sophomore, two freshman. It is rumored both freshman are planning to transfer to the same school, which has a very good 2023 catcher.

you say your son is a late bloomer. what's his upside?  are you and mom big and son has a good chance to grow into a monster body?  or, is he a late developer and looking at 5'8" as his ceiling?  I'll give you two anecdotes that can, hopefully, give you some hope

my 2023's good friend is also a catcher and a late developer.  his brother grew between soph and jr years and became a 6'1" beast.  his dad did, too.  friend grew a lot during covid (5"+) but his man strength is not fully there yet. Their HS class is pretty rich with catchers but, mechanically, he's the best one.  he's on JV this year and another 2023 is starting on varsity (and another one didn't make grades).  next year, he has a tough row to how, with the incumbent being the same year, but, if he makes the strength gains i think he will, he'll stand out and blow everyone's minds. he'll be bigger, stronger and better than the current catcher. this should give some hope to late bloomers everywhere.  take care of what you can take care of now so you can take advantage when the pendulum swings the other way.

the other case is another classmate of theirs. he made varsity as a freshman last year when there were two senior catchers.  he didn't catch. at all.  he's a P/3b and is currently a big cog on the varsity team.  once the season ends, though, he goes back to his travel team (coached by one of the best catching coaches in the area) and becomes the primary catcher.  he's pretty good and is actually getting recruited by a couple of mid major d1s as a catcher.  his "goal" is to commit as a catcher without ever having caught for his school, lol.  it can be done but, as others have said, you gotta hit. work on you catching game when you can but make sure you get on the field during HS and make the most of your opportunities.

also, go with the best academic situation you have available.  period.

You said to feel free to be ruthless but I hope my feedback doesn’t come across that way.   A couple of your statements below stood out to me:

“The challenge is more political. “

This is a red herring.  You are seeing a situation that helps you reconcile in your mind that your son lost the job.  The actual challenge is what you stated here:

“Spent the first part recovering from an injury that required arm surgery and substantial rehab...... He is young freshman and a late bloomer.  0 for 9 in his 9 AB’s on the season.  The other catcher is also very good, but passes the eye test much better.”

None of the other stuff you are seeing matters.  The parents being close to the coach or your perception of their cooking the scorebook to make junior look better.  You said yourself the kid is good and he is physical.  So the coach’s two options at catcher apparently boil down to a late bloomer coming off an injury who went 0’fer at the plate and a kid who looks the part and can play the position.  Who would you put behind the plate in a varsity game if you were the coach?  Where would you invest for the future?  Catcher is a premium position and not one where kids get a turn in hopes that they might grow into it.  

“I was under the impression that both boys would be given time to develop as catchers and that didn’t happen.  I did have a brief conversation with the coach about what he feels would help my son be a more valuable member of the team and his intentions are pretty clear.”

Who gave you this impression that they would be given equal time?  Was that just your own expectation going in?  It’s sounds like the coach was honest with you when you talked to him about it and you didn’t like what you heard.  His plan is the only one that will matter.

I think you are correct that your son won’t likely play catcher here but I think you are blinded to the actual reasons.  It’s a shame the school doesn’t have a JV team where he could get some time to develop as JV is the place for that, not Varsity.  If you do transfer, I would suggest choosing a school with multiple levels of play to insure your son gets playing time on the field.  No one gets better watching from the dugout.

My son was a catcher entering HS. He played C and 1B as a freshman. Sophomore year he started varsity at 1B and never played C in HS again. I had no doubt that he was a better C than the various guys who started the position for the next 3 years. He played C on his summer team and got plenty of opportunities to show (until a knee injury ended his catching after junior year). He club coach used to laugh and shake his head at the HS coach not using him at C (big arm).
You didn’t mention how your son is feeling about this, but I don’t think this is a difficult decision. He played some varsity as a freshman coming off a significant injury. He’s in a great academic situation. He hasn’t fully developed physically yet. Many, many good players find themselves blocked by a better player at their primary position.
Mentally, he should approach it like the other catcher is Yadier Molina. Forget the politics, forget the favoritism, and just prepare for his next opportunity. Embrace getting better at other positions. But most importantly, he has to hit the ball hard. No disrespect, but “0-9” means nothing. Can he square up high school pitching, and does he hit the ball hard? That’s the goal, and that's far and away the most important thing he can do.

I see more whining and excuses than constructive observation and thinking in your post.  Even if you are correct welcome to Life Isn’t Always Fair 101. You should know this as an adult. At some point your son has to learn it. Almost everyone goes through this optional life class. It how you deal with it that matters. First, do not whine to other parents. They don’t want to hear it. If someone agrees with you they’re either your buddy or they believe their kid is getting screwed as well and want to whine in return. There a good chance the word will spread and get back to the coach. Your accusations will cook your kid.

I tend to roll my eyes when I see “my kid is getting screwed” comments in person or posted on the board. It does happen. But it’s more likely to be sour grapes and poor perspective on behalf of the parent.

One of my favorite “my kid got screwed” stories goes back to high school. A soph went 0-8 with six whiffs and four misplayed balls or errors that went to the outfield fence in the first four games. When he was pulled from the lineup the father  griped to anyone who would listen. Not many parents wanted to listen other than the couple who also felt their kid was getting screwed. You might say eight at bats is a small sample. But the kid looked grossly overmatched in all eight at bats. There’s no excuse for outfield misplays. The game was too damn fast for the kid. He ended up on JV. Junior year was similar. We had to listen to “my kid got screwed” again. After sitting the bench a few games the kid quit baseball. I thought the coach grossly overrated the kid for two years.

On the other hand a friend of mine never started in high school on JV or varsity at catcher while a less talented kid who went to the same church as the coach started.. My friend started over this kid in Legion (what we had then) and went on to college ball. He also played some first and third for the high school teams.

Before all your excuses let’s start with reality. If your son is in the same class and is stuck behind this kid he better learn another position. If he hits he will play.

I kept the book, ran the website and wrote the first draft of the game article for the coach. I heard all the same accusations. None of it was true. I quit the “volunteer” job. No one wanted it the following year. A great website went to hell. I had the board updated by 9pm after games. Stats were no longer available along with all the college recruiting and other articles I posted.

I talked with coaches at the field before and after games. Parents thought I was paving the way for my son. The coaches talked to me because I played college ball and was coaching a high end travel team at the time. The coaches approached me. What they did ask that I told them I wouldn’t answer was about a kid I coached in travel I didn’t invite back the following season. There were also discussions about interested local college programs that had made contact with the coach about my son. The point is you have no idea about what’s being said in discussions.

Getting into the comparisons no way in hell are you likely to make an objective evaluation about your son’s abilities. It doesn’t come off you’re objective in your post.

Here’s a little reality about the other kid passing the eye test. Kids who look like they should be at a position have to prove they can’t play the position. Kids who don’t look like they fill the part have to prove they can play the position. Your son has failed in each of his opportunities. I don’t want to hear there haven’t been many opportunities, Each one is a chance to look good and earn another. My son became a college starter one at bat and one pinch run at a time before the coach decided to start him mid season. It’s important to maintain being mentally and physically ready to take advantage. You complained one opportunity was during a mercy game. It’s still an opportunity.  If the team stunk chances are so was the pitching. Your son didn’t hit two line drives, did he?

If your son doesn’t play high school ball it’s likely to come up in conversation with a college,coach. What is that coach going to think when he hears your son cut and run because he didn’t get to play his favorite position. Most college players aren’t at their high school position.

Aside from your perspective you’ve already made one HUGE mistake. You went to the coach about your son’s playing time. It’s your son’s job. He’s an adult in training. He needs to be one here and talk to the coach, not you. Stay away from the coach unless it’s about injury or he approaches you.

Your son can still be a catcher. High school is typically twenty something games. Travel teams play 50-80. If he can catch half the travel games it will still be more catching than high school. Most, if not all of college recruiting comes from summer travel teams. In the meantime your son should be part of the team and compete for a position. He should ask the coach other than working on his catching what other position would he be best suited for. If you hit, you play.

Here's another story of two catchers.

One's my son; one's a very close friend of his who happens to also play catcher. They've always attended the same schools.

Kid #2 was always the starter; my kid sat. Both kids work hard, but my kid developed into the #1 option at catcher. Kid #2 shares time and plays infield when not catching (usually 3rd).

Kid #2 just committed to a mid-major D1 - a really good spot for him. He didn't transfer; he stayed and competed and now he'll play four more years at a place he'll love.

Lots of paths to the altar. Flexibility is the key.

@OskiSD posted:

Here's another story of two catchers.

One's my son; one's a very close friend of his who happens to also play catcher. They've always attended the same schools.

Kid #2 was always the starter; my kid sat. Both kids work hard, but my kid developed into the #1 option at catcher. Kid #2 shares time and plays infield when not catching (usually 3rd).

Kid #2 just committed to a mid-major D1 - a really good spot for him. He didn't transfer; he stayed and competed and now he'll play four more years at a place he'll love.

Lots of paths to the altar. Flexibility is the key.

BTW Kid #2's school is considered a better baseball program than my kid's committed school.

@RJM is spinning gold above.  Honest, but spot on.  I'd spend some time really thinking deeply about all that is being said here.  A lot of it is tough, but there is no time for anything but a thick skin.  Run TO it, not from it.  I promise you'll be organizing his HS grad party in what will feel like a few months.  My kid's party is Sunday.

A couple things.  For most of us, we were the ones in the backyard playing catch and everything else with our kids since age 4 or whatever.  Our evaluation/assessment of our kids isn't necessary wrong so much as it's unrealistically comprehensive.  I promise you, I've seen my son's absolute best.  I was there each time he pushed the ceiling higher and/or broke through it.  That's what comes when you log that much interaction and observation.  But no coach your kid ever plays for, will get that much 1x1 time with him.  So your kid is really only as good as he shows everyone BUT you.

Along those lines, I don't think it can be overstated how important it is to deliver whenever the opportunity comes up. Especially if playing college ball is the goal.  It's been my experience that the best players don't have "off" days in the sense most would consider "off."  To be clear, I am not just talking about elite phenom type players.  The best players prepare (mentally and physically) to a point where even if they have a bad outing, it's not bad.  Just not good FOR THEM.  Kids get so very few good chances where the right person is watching at the right time.  If you're not able to show an accurate representation of yourself - even on an "off" day - EVERY time the right person is watching, then I'd argue you didn't prepare well enough.  I often apply this concept to kids attending showcases.  If you go to one and beforehand can't tell me what you're measurables will be at a minimum, you didn't prepare.  My son initially went into showcases with hope as his "strategy."  Once I was able to get his head in the right space, there were no more "off" days when it came to showcases.

Senior catcher had an injury. My 2022 started first 5 games of the season at catcher.  Every game moved up in the batting order. Batted in the 5 spot. He was immediately pulled when the senior catcher came back.  In my very biased opinion, 2022 was better than the senior.  Senior catcher ended up batting 9th.

2022 secondary position is third base, played by the senior catcher's twin brother. 2022 played third when the twin brother pitched. The coach is known for always playing his seniors.

After sitting the bench for a week and a half with a few pinch hitting opportunities, 2022 asked the coach what he needed to do to work his way back in the lineup.  Coach tried him in right field.  2022 is servicable in right field with a very strong arm.

First game in right, he hits a grand slam. He plays right field and bats 4th the rest of the season.  He continued to rake and was responsible for most of the RBI's in the playoff run. He hates outfield. Not enough action. He didn't complain and did his best.

No position on the bench is better than any position on the field.

First let me thank everyone for your input.  While I may not agree with everyone, I absolutely respect you opinion.  To clarify, I wasn’t asking for agreement on our situation.  Believe it or not, bias exists in the real world.  I also don’t expect anything to be given to my son.  I expect him to earn it.  The only way that happens is to be given the opportunity to compete. That opportunity does not exist in his current situation.  That’s fine.  Life isn’t fair.  There is more than one way to skin a cat.  As far a putting in work goes, also not an issue.  While many kids his age are spending hours on end paying video games or chasing girls, that’s not his priority.  He’s putting in 10-15 hours a week into his passion with high level instruction and trainers.  Only mentioned his size, because he’s not blessed with the early growth that so many kids his age have been.  The path of least resistance is the big, strong kid.  He will be fine in time and is growing like a weed now and putting on much needed weight.  

For those of you that stuck it out and it ended well, I honestly couldn’t be happier for you.  It’s fantastic!  However, just like any profession, there are great ones and those that just got by.  The surgeon that graduated last in his class is still a surgeon, but that doesn’t mean I’m real excited about going under the knife with that guy.  I’m also not real excited about entrusting my sons playing future to a guy who’s senior catcher transferred out along with two others that would have been sure fire team captains, starters and 3-5 hitters.  

I get where many went with the question I asked.  “This is the typical helicopter parent where little Timmy is the next Derek Jeter, and is boo hooing because Timmy didn’t get his way.”  Not the case.  Just curious if any did it another way and how it worked out.  

Lastly, the conversation I had with the coach was to ask that he be allowed to “potentially” be late to games that he wasn’t going to play in so he could complete his physical therapy after missing several appointments and still having to pay for them out of pocket.  I also asked if he’s going to spend all of his practices behind the plate, but play other positions on occasion to please let me know so I can make sure he gets some work in to help his team.  

We didn’t pick his school for the baseball program, we picked it for the academics.  Many of you are absolutely correct, my son will likely not get an opportunity to catch for his current HS team and if he really wants  compete for the position, he’ll likely have to transfer.  Really just that simple.  I do find it interesting how many of you took the path of some science teacher that may or may not have played independent ball somewhere play baseball god with our kids without question.

Please forgive me if I come off as defensive, not my intent.  Just addressing some of the assumptions.  Love the group and the success stories.  Good to know others have gone through it and found a way.  Thanks again for the input.  It is appreciated and helpful.  

  sorry that you are disappointed but some of what you posted makes no sense.

You live in a state that is loaded with talent. Your son will have to compete better to be on the field and behind the dish here in Florida.

Definitely, you need to get him into one of the better travel programs if he is not.

He does play travel ball and has since he was 10.  He’s played on “National Champion” teams and has more plastic trophies than I care to remember.  He’s played all over the state and will continue to do so with his “Elite” travel program this summer.  Guest playing this weekend and will have his first PG of the season next weekend.  The assumption is that he’s not good enough and that couldn’t be farther from the truth.  The question was never about playing time.  The question was about anyone that was in a similar situation with high school and the path they took.  

I should also state that I didn’t and wouldn’t speak to other parents about the situation.  I bring it up here, because it’s relevant and anonymous.  The only conversation I had with the coach during the season outside of basic pleasantries, was the one I mentioned.  I know the rules about talking to coaches.  I would like nothing better than to have zero interaction with them.  

In fall ball before the start their freshman year, both catchers split time behind the plate for their team.  Both catchers also received custom, monogrammed gear from fundraising for the season.  Both catchers also spent 100% of fielding time behind the plate in practice.  If your intention is to platoon your backup catcher, it might be a good idea to have them take a few ground balls in practice.  Just a thought.  

I’m lost at the confusion.  

No idea where his school is, but every fall ball program I’ve seen in FL is basically rec with some good players sprinkled in. Kids get equal playing time and there are no cuts. Most of the time the top players don’t even play because they are in a tournament or showcase. So I can see where both C’s would get equal time. The coaches also get the opportunity to see game situations and who performs better. You mentioned 0-9 during the season. How did he hit in the fall?

Your son might have to sit another season or even two until he is able to clearly show he is the better catcher (and hitter).

What was the record of the team?

Let’s just say they weren’t exactly making a run at a state title.  

It doesn’t really matter at this point.  I got what I was looking for.  The few people that stayed on topic were helpful.  We’ll have a decision to make come next season.  The coaches priority is to win ball games.  He made it clear in his actions that he has no intention to develop two freshmen catchers for whatever reason.  At best it’s short sighted.  At worst it’s blatant disregard for the baseball development of a 14 year old kid.  Plenty of garbage time in games for reps over the course of a 25 game season.  The split was 125 to 6.  That’s pretty much all you need to know.  

Here's what you have said:

- you picked the school for academic reasons, if he transfers he will lose some valuable academic opportunities

- he is not the best catcher at his current school

Why would you think he would be the best catcher at another school?  Would there be no "politics" there?

Players get injured all the time.  Could be the other catcher - in which case your son will get a shot, since he's practiced at catcher.  Could be your son (who has already been injured once) - in which case, you will have downgraded academics for nothing.

Your son needs to ask his coach, at the end of the year, for an evaluation.  It's awkward for a freshman, but he needs to do it - and pay attention to what the coach says.

I hear your frustration with "development" - my son was DHed for his freshman year, it took him a few weeks that summer to get back in the groove of hitting.  Another freshman got at-bats and did poorly (below .200), but was kept in the lineup - presumably the coach thought he would eventually come around.  He was injured most of junior and senior year and never really did come around.  So, maybe coach was wrong, but he had a plan.

Varsity is not for development anyway, it's for winning.  You yourself said that above, as though it was a bad thing.

Good luck with your son's summer season.

TerribleBPthrower son is a catcher in Florida, he also pitches. No need to be nasty to him. He might be able to share information that might be helpful for your son.

Why are you so angry? You admitted that the school wasn't chosen for the baseball program.   Your son had surgery and was still rehabbing, maybe it would have been better to just not play?

You state that your son has plenty of options out of school so why does 25 HS games mean so much? No player, these days is going to make it to the next level playing HS baseball unless they play at a premium prep or HS.

Learn to play another position to get at bats, because if you don't hit, you don't play.  That's the bottom line for any position player.

Sounds like the OP's mind was already made up and only wanted opinions that supported his own.

@Nick0977 posted:

Let’s just say they weren’t exactly making a run at a state title.  

It doesn’t really matter at this point.  I got what I was looking for.  The few people that stayed on topic were helpful.  We’ll have a decision to make come next season.  The coaches priority is to win ball games.  He made it clear in his actions that he has no intention to develop two freshmen catchers for whatever reason.  At best it’s short sighted. At worst it’s blatant disregard for the baseball development of a 14 year old kid.  Plenty of garbage time in games for reps over the course of a 25 game season.  The split was 125 to 6.  That’s pretty much all you need to know.  

Faulty thinking if you thought Varsity was the place for development.  Coaches bring up young players for a specific need and because they think they have the skills.    Even if a coach is developing players, most of that "development" is in practice.  Basically, a player on a varsity team should be ready to play today.   There may be some further development, but it will be the responsibility of the player to push this - probably on his own time.  JV is the place for development - I realize the school didn't have a JV team and that really is a shame.  Varsity is "the Show".

You mention your son was recovering from surgery and was not able to play for a significant period of time.  Did you really expect the coach to "make up" for the time your son was unable to play?   His job is to win games with the players he has.

TPM has been right on the money.

Most of us here have been through challenges.  When my son made Varsity his sophomore year, he beat out the returning senior for catcher.   Played most games at that position.  Senior was gracious about it since it was plainly evident he was not as good as my son.  Even on Senior night, he didn't play until the last inning or so (it was critical district game and the team was in a three way race for the district title).

Next season with another good catcher coming up, son was moved to 3B.  I wasn't happy with it, but it was something he did at the request of the coach and son was a team player.  Next season moved to 1B - again because that's where the coach needed him.  Kind of a blessing in disguise as my son hit better when he wasn't behind the plate.

If two players are vying for one spot and are "equal" in talent and skills, the deciding factor may come down to hitting.  If one can consistently get hits (and not just bloopers, but hard hit balls) and the other doesn't, it doesn't take much thinking to know which way the coach is going to go.  And it all starts in practice.  And, yes, going 0-9 isn't going to help his cause.  When the opportunity presents itself, a player has to be ready to perform - you just don't always know when that will be.

Good luck in whatever you and your son decide.

@Nick0977 posted:

He does play travel ball and has since he was 10.  He’s played on “National Champion” teams and has more plastic trophies than I care to remember.  He’s played all over the state and will continue to do so with his “Elite” travel program this summer.  Guest playing this weekend and will have his first PG of the season next weekend.  The assumption is that he’s not good enough and that couldn’t be farther from the truth.  The question was never about playing time.  The question was about anyone that was in a similar situation with high school and the path they took.  

I should also state that I didn’t and wouldn’t speak to other parents about the situation.  I bring it up here, because it’s relevant and anonymous.  The only conversation I had with the coach during the season outside of basic pleasantries, was the one I mentioned.  I know the rules about talking to coaches.  I would like nothing better than to have zero interaction with them.  

In fall ball before the start their freshman year, both catchers split time behind the plate for their team.  Both catchers also received custom, monogrammed gear from fundraising for the season.  Both catchers also spent 100% of fielding time behind the plate in practice.  If your intention is to platoon your backup catcher, it might be a good idea to have them take a few ground balls in practice.  Just a thought.  

I’m lost at the confusion.  

Some parents here can't see the situation from your point of view because they had (or claim to have had) kids who either just fought through everything, or dominated from the start because they were so naturally gifted. They assume anyone who didn't must themselves be at fault and is imagining any bias.

On the other hand, parents can see bias where there is none. When your description started out that your kid both was coming off injury and went 0 for 9 when he did play, it's hard to think that bias/favoritism is why he catch. Could it be part of it? Sure. But we only can go by the evidence presented.

Catcher is a unique position in that you can get blocked. At our high school the year before we entered, there were 2 catchers in the same class year. One started, one barely caught. Both are great young men today.

Catcher A went D1, had a coaching change, and came back a little closer to home at a D2 and is doing great by all accounts and we see his highlights on Twitter all the time.

Catcher B went JC, tore his non throwing labrum and missed his whole first season. After season number 2 he was on fire and gets drafted in the later rounds. Elects to go D1 and is now a Semifinalist  for NCAA Buster Posey catcher of the year. Sure glad he never gave up as a high school freshman!

@stranded1 posted:

Some parents here can't see the situation from your point of view because they had (or claim to have had) kids who either just fought through everything, or dominated from the start because they were so naturally gifted. They assume anyone who didn't must themselves be at fault and is imagining any bias.

I don't necessarily agree with the above but you make a good point.

Baseball is a game of failure. All players, even the most gifted, struggle.  It's not exclusive to just one type of player. IMO, the most successful players are those that fight through adversity.

The problem these days is that too many parents make excuses and place blame on others, either the other parents on the team or the coach.  As soon as it doesn't work out the way as planned, its lets make a switch where he will play because he is better than those who got more at bats, more mound time, etc. 

I feel that when in a private school situation, because parents pay, they think that they have a right to bitch and moan.

Just wait until your player goes to college.

JMO

@Nick0977 posted:

Let’s just say they weren’t exactly making a run at a state title.  

It doesn’t really matter at this point.  I got what I was looking for.  The few people that stayed on topic were helpful.  We’ll have a decision to make come next season.  The coaches priority is to win ball games.  He made it clear in his actions that he has no intention to develop two freshmen catchers for whatever reason.  At best it’s short sighted.  At worst it’s blatant disregard for the baseball development of a 14 year old kid.  Plenty of garbage time in games for reps over the course of a 25 game season.  The split was 125 to 6.  That’s pretty much all you need to know.  

The coach’s priority is to win ball games.

What a horrible coach. I can’t imagine any player wanting to play for this misguided coach!

I can see a huge flaw in your thinking. You believe it’s the coach’s responsibility to develop your son. A typical high school baseball season has two to two and a half hour practices three times a week.

Maybe you’re not aware of this. The best players develop away from the game. They practice more away from the team than with the team. They arrive prepared to win a position.

What catching drills are there your son and you can’t develop on your own? Don’t know the catching position? Get. A video, learn from it and work with your son. In eighth grade my son would want to practice with me after middle school games. Because he played a fall sport and travel fall ball we practiced baseball after his fall sport practices.

Does your son have the passion or the preference to play? I only see preference. Everyone prefers to play. Then they make excuses when they don’t. There may be some bias in the coach. But I see excuses more than anything else.

The other catcher may be better. But there is nothing stopping your son from getting the coach in the thinking mode of, “I have to play this kid somewhere.” Nothing, except his passion for the game.

My son got temporarily screwed in another high school sport. It was definitely bias and politics. Rather than make excuses he decided he wasn’t going to allow it to happen. He worked through the issue. He told me to get over it. If I discussed the situation with anyone he would get pissed at me.

When my son graduated from high school and college I looked back and thought how perfect was the experience. It netted out that way. What I’m reminded of by complaining posters/parents on this site is the adversity he fought through to make it seem perfect.

You don’t lose when you get knocked down. You lose when you choose not to get up.

I feel that when in a private school situation, because parents pay, they think that they have a right to bitch and moan.

I watched a million dollar donor ruin a USA Today Top 25 program paving the way for his mediocre son to play. Until this dad did his thing the school had more college baseball prospects than positions on the field.

Just curious ... Paper newspapers aren’t relevant anymore. There are better second options to the local paper available online than USA Today. Does USA Today Top 25 even exist or relevant anymore?

To add to RJM's post, if you aren't playing to win, why are you playing?

If a player really wants to be a starter, they better be finding ways (lessons, etc) to improve their skills before they show up for tryouts and practices.

Give reasons the coach should put you in the line up.

The record of the team is very relevant IMO. If they are 5-20 I could see your argument. But if they are a 10+ win team I would side with having a starter and sticking with him.

@RJM So clearly you just read the last post and run with it.  Lots of trolling here.  Given you are the #2 poster on here I’m sure your one of the best.  I’ll bite so we can go in circles for a few days.  Never made excuses.  Also would never leave the development in the hands of a high school coach.  I’m aware of high school practices as he attended them all season.  Development occurs in more ways than practice and training.  You can train till you’re blue in the face, but live game reps are always going to be necessary.  My son has hitting,  fielding, catching and strength and conditioning coaches.  All are professionals and would be considered some of the best in our area.  He’s caught pens for college and MLB players.  Spends 10-15 hours a week on his craft outside of team practices.  Has played high level travel ball for the last 4 years, all of this is redundant because scrolling is hard.  My son is truly blessed to have those opportunities and doesn’t take them for granted.  Don’t assume you know who I am or what I know.  This all started with a simple question about doing things differently and has grown into people questioning my integrity and the abilities of my son.  Not really helpful or constructive.  If you would like to post your resume and why you’re an authority on the subject matter I’d be very interested in reading it.  While some high school coaches are great mentors and people.  Some are just teachers, picking up a few extra bucks doing I/O for few hours a week.  High school baseball is no longer a necessity for the player looking to play at the next level.  In the last couple of days I’ve experienced a lot of the same garbage mentality that is the true problem.  “I am high school baseball coach, hear me roar, but you damn sure better never question me because I am all knowing and above reproach.” I asked for opinions and ruthless and that is exactly what I received. I have no problems with conflicting views or opinions as long as they are helpful, but trolling is a complete waste of everyone’s time.  All the best.  I think we’ll take the far less obnoxious door number two.  Thank you.  

If you hit you don't sit.

@nycdad posted:

If you hit you don't sit.

Yep

I’m the dad of a 5’10” RHP, who in the world of baseball is known as a commodity. Not projectable, not over 6’, not left handed, doesn’t throw 100 and weighs 170lbs. He was never the biggest, best or fastest player on any of his teams. I love my kid and I know I always thought he was a good player. When other people start seeing it (talent) and telling you and he separates himself from the pack, you’ll know it. Foster that development and don’t pigeon hole him. Best of luck to you and your son.

You’re not being trolled. I’m speaking from experience of going through the high school journey with two kids playing three sports and the college baseball and softball journey. I’ve also been a travel baseball, softball and basketball coach.

Between personal experience and this board do you know how many of these stories I’ve seen/heard? 95% of them are from a parent with the wrong take on reality.

The other catcher looks the physical part. Your son doesn’t. Your son isn’t hitting. He’s only a freshman. The coach wants to win. What part of this are you not getting? It doesn’t mean he can’t play. It means he needs to do more.

By the way, the #1 poster on the board isn’t a troll. It’s a woman who knows as much as anyone on this board about baseball and more than most.

DanJ: For most of us, we were the ones in the backyard playing catch and everything else with our kids since age 4 or whatever. Our evaluation/assessment of our kids isn't necessary wrong so much as it's unrealistically comprehensive.

This is a diamond of wisdom.

@RJM posted:

The coach’s priority is to win ball games.

What a horrible coach. I can’t imagine any player wanting to play for this misguided coach!

I can see a huge flaw in your thinking. You believe it’s the coach’s responsibility to develop your son. A typical high school baseball season has two to two and a half hour practices three times a week.

Maybe you’re not aware of this. The best players develop away from the game. They practice more away from the team than with the team. They arrive prepared to win a position.

What catching drills are there your son and you can’t develop on your own? Don’t know the catching position? Get. A video, learn from it and work with your son. In eighth grade my son would want to practice with me after middle school games. Because he played a fall sport and travel fall ball we practiced baseball after his fall sport practices.

Does your son have the passion or the preference to play? I only see preference. Everyone prefers to play. Then they make excuses when they don’t. There may be some bias in the coach. But I see excuses more than anything else.

The other catcher may be better. But there is nothing stopping your son from getting the coach in the thinking mode of, “I have to play this kid somewhere.” Nothing, except his passion for the game.

My son got temporarily screwed in another high school sport. It was definitely bias and politics. Rather than make excuses he decided he wasn’t going to allow it to happen. He worked through the issue. He told me to get over it. If I discussed the situation with anyone he would get pissed at me.

When my son graduated from high school and college I looked back and thought how perfect was the experience. It netted out that way. What I’m reminded of by complaining posters/parents on this site is the adversity he fought through to make it seem perfect.

You don’t lose when you get knocked down. You lose when you choose not to get up.

This is an ironic post.

My son was lucky to become friends with a person who has raised as far as one can go in scouting at the MLB level. I've heard him time and time again say the kids here are at a huge disadvantage because at almost every level there is almost no player development. He gave examples of Russian women's tennis, DR baseball, and one other sport where emphasis on development pays off. How here it's win and development takes a back seat.

Ironic the opinion of this poster, who thinks they have it all figured out, lines up with what a director of scouting thinks is wrong with baseball in north america.

If you are serious about baseball you'd be well advised not to look here for advice. Because it's full of people who think they know, but don't know. Well maybe somewhat at the LL, HS, and maybe some college level. But my son has afforded me an insight into the highest level, and this person, along with most here, have no clue.

And, as one can easily see in the quoted post. This site is almost now only how much more "woke" and "enlightened" I am and how well we/my son handled adversity.

I’m as anti woke as anyone can be. Almost everyone faces adversity at some point in time whether it’s baseball, another sport or life. There are two options. 1) Man up and face it or 2) Whine and melt. If you want something you pursue it with a passion. You don’t expect anyone to hand it to you.

@SomeBaseballDad if you truly believe anyone serious about baseball would be well advised not to look here for advice, you’ve got an optics problem. 5,000+ posts rating here on HSBBW?  I respect a diverse range of opinions, but when someone spends a lot of time somewhere that they recommend others DON’T spend their time, yeah, the optics simply look bad. “Don’t go to HSBBW. It sucks. I’ll be back tomorrow.” SMH

While HSBBW is far from perfect, I think it’s largely a gold mine.  A largely unparalleled resource where real people come and share their experiences and opinions. I have lots of baseball parent friends that are ignorant to so much of what this incredible complex process and environment is actually like.  Anyone ignoring the wealth of information available here is blind to so much and increasing their kid’s odds of not seeing the success they desire.

To the original poster, I think I already stated the importance of growing a thick skin, but I’m not sure it resonated well enough. I’ll say it again. Grow a thick skin and work to do it as soon as possible. I have nothing against you and hope for nothing but the best for you and your son.  I want to help if I can. But, yes, some people here - myself included - are picking up on some tell tale signs. Warning signs. I don’t see too many here so when they pop up, they’re fairly easy for some to pick up on. And some people - myself included - feel there’s a poisonous nature to some of them.  If some people here are identifying things about you and your situation that stand to handcuff your son’s situation, I’d strongly consider listening. Closely.  You’re here for your son.  That’s great.  But if tougher comments are enough to sour you, I can’t like your kid’s chances.  It’s a jungle out there.  People here truly understand that.  And the straight dope in this jungle is very hard to come by.  I had a boss who classified people into 3 types: I can’ts, I cans and I wills.  I hear - what I consider to be - too much I can’t in your responses.  If people here are trying to help you get to I can (and eventually I will), I’d listen.  Closely.  Your son is a freshman.  You may not have a good sense of how far he (and you) will travel over the next 3 years.  I sure didn’t.  Perspective - much of it very tough to swallow - will be thrust upon you and your son over the next 3 years.  If you listen to people here with a truly open mind, a lot of it won’t be a surprise when it inevitably comes.

I think the OP deleted their account. I can’t click on it.

You seem to have had all the answers all along. Not sure why you even asked on here unless you were just seeking validation. Good luck

Nick;

can you list 5 qualities of a successful HS Baseball Coach?

Bob

@Consultant

1. Knowledge

2. Experience

3. Integrity

4. Accountability

5. Patience

Thank you. You listed 5 qualities for a successful College Coach earning $100,000 per year.

You did not mention "communication" and "teaching the real game of baseball".

For example; when your son catches can he "read the bat"?

Bob

@Consultant Ah, you must be the good cop  Sure lots of qualities that one could hope for in a coach.  Leadership would have been a good one too.  I get what you are saying.  In reality, this feed never really went the direction I was hoping for.  Just contemplating options with summer around the corner.  The path most taken is not always the best path for an individual.  Honestly, I couldn’t care less the why just not a fan of being called a lier or or assumptions being made about the quality or character of my kid, myself or really anyone else.  

Not familiar with the term, “read the bat” as it pertains to catching.  I’m also not the catcher.  Thanks for perspective.  

@Nick0977 posted:

@Consultant Ah, you must be the good cop  Sure lots of qualities that one could hope for in a coach.  Leadership would have been a good one too.  I get what you are saying.  In reality, this feed never really went the direction I was hoping for.  Just contemplating options with summer around the corner.  The path most taken is not always the best path for an individual.  Honestly, I couldn’t care less the why just not a fan of being called a lier or or assumptions being made about the quality or character of my kid, myself or really anyone else.  

Not familiar with the term, “read the bat” as it pertains to catching.  I’m also not the catcher.  Thanks for perspective.  

Bob has a baseball life that’s incredible and his observations/perspective are always interesting. If you stay on this board I would encourage you to read the bios of the posters whenever you strongly agree (or disagree) with their posts. That can sometimes be helpful in determining how much weight to give what they have to say - and it can also be enlightening to find out the experiences/accomplishments of many members of HSBBW.

Nick;

"read the bat"!

the catcher watches the "on deck" hitter practice swings.

If he is swinging up, the catcher will call for "high" fastball. As a parent you can provide the opportunity for your son to study, observe and prepare for the next level of competition.

Bob

Bob,

Good stuff.  He has called his games quite a bit for the last few years, but I hadn’t heard the term.  He does talk about pitch selection with his catching coach and frequently calls for an up and in pitch for swinging strike three.  Could be.  I am merely the Chief Transportation Officer and head cheerleader.  Thank you again and I appreciate the civility.  

@Nick0977  Listen, either you want help and input or you don’t. I get the sense you’re READING every word that is being sent your way, but I’m not sure you’re truly HEARING it.  If you find yourself scoffing at some of the comments and formulating your rebuttal AS YOU’RE READING them, then I’d argue you’re not truly hearing what is being said. I know a few people who will be the first in the room to SAY “I’m not perfect.”  But those same people are never the ones to offer up their actual imperfections FIRST, if ever. Simply saying “I’m not perfect” is all they’re willing to admit. They never are interested in going any deeper than that statement. “Listen, I know I’m not perfect.” and “I never said I was perfect.”  Anybody ever hear these statements and immediately ready themselves for the inevitable “but...”

So when I hear you say it was never about “ability, toughness, heart, drive, work ethic” and then I hear you ask for ideas on how to “skip the BS,” it makes me wonder how deeply you’ve truly thought about this.  If the ability, the toughness, the heart, the drive and the work ethic are all there, why is there even a need/desire to SKIP the BS?  You know what bulldozes right THROUGH the BS?  Ability, toughness, heart, drive, work ethic.  Those things have been making BS it’s b!tch for eons. Imagine the skill set your son would have if he worked THROUGH this BS instead of trying to circumnavigate it.  That skill will write checks for him his whole life when he inevitably finds BS lurking in every corner.

Last piece of advice. If you sincerely want what’s best for your son now and throughout his life, I’d recommend listening MOST to the advice that is TOUGHEST to hear. That’s one of the beauties of this site. People don’t have to candy coat anything here because they’ll never be face to face with you. They can skip the warm fuzzies and just get down to the issue. Things you could never do with all your friends or family. Imagine all the wins possible if you could just be 100% honest with your friends and family all the time.  Talk about skipping the BS - that’d be amazing!

I can’t figure this out. OP asks for “ruthless” feedback, gets it, then claims to be getting trolled.

If academics are important to you, go where the academics are best. If your son wants to play baseball in college he can get there without a stellar HS career. I’ve seen kids this spring committed to a college baseball program and weren’t even starters because there are D1 studs ahead of them.

@DanJ  I hear everything you’re saying.  I know what my son needs to do to be successful.  So does he.  I think I was pretty upfront about the challenges before I even dug into the possible bias.  The more I read these posts I’ve realized that I couldn’t care less about bias, where my kid plays or how much he plays.  The question was legitimate, but for all the wrong reasons.  I’m realizing more than ever that my real problem is that I believe that the coach is of low character and I don’t want my son to play for him in any capacity.  I just wrote a dissertation on why I feel that way and deleted it.  It’s not important, really none of your business and I’m damn sure not going to bother defending myself, but it has nothing to do with playing time or even baseball.  I apologize to all of you if I was rude, but this was actually incredibly helpful in a totally unintended way.  Weird, but thank you.  

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I can’t figure this out. OP asks for “ruthless” feedback, gets it, then claims to be getting trolled.

If academics are important to you, go where the academics are best. If your son wants to play baseball in college he can get there without a stellar HS career. I’ve seen kids this spring committed to a college baseball program and weren’t even starters because there are D1 studs ahead of them.

You are absolutely correct.  Thanks

I’ll say this, between this site and the dozens of local parents I talk to, there aren’t many who would say they are pleased with their school programs right now. And even with those schools there are several other who say those programs were a terrible experience this year. There is one school where practically half the program was rumored to be transferring because the coach sucked, the depth chart sucks, etc. That team just made it to the final 4 of a big division in FL. Now the transfer rumors are all fading away

@nycdad posted:

If you hit you don't sit.

That’s a quaint and cute and often used quote but not necessarily the reality in D1 or the minor leagues, especially if there isn’t money invested in you.

In those places, you could hit and still sit.  You might need to hit darn near .450-.500 to replace the top prospects.

As far as a high school freshman?  Half the high school freshman won’t even be playing Baseball 2-3 years from now.  Go where the best academics are, and try to keep the kid away from the pot dealers.

@TerribleBPthrower Funny how winning changes things for people.  Since my kid was three years old he has loved the game of baseball.  He’d hammer on me every day to go in the back yard so he could hit the ball over our fence with those big plastic red bats After all of the challenges my son has gone though over that last year or so, I honestly thought it was coming to an end.   I couldn’t care less about about wins and loses at this point.  He killed it this weekend.  Every damn day he steps on the field might as well be the World Series for me.  Even threw out a prominent big leaguers son today.  They called him safe, but he got him, but who really cares?  Thanks for trying to help and I apologize if I was a jerk.  Hope you too get to enjoy your son getting it done for as long as the game will let him.  

@Nick0977 posted:

@DanJ  I hear everything you’re saying.  I know what my son needs to do to be successful.  So does he.  I think I was pretty upfront about the challenges before I even dug into the possible bias.  The more I read these posts I’ve realized that I couldn’t care less about bias, where my kid plays or how much he plays.  The question was legitimate, but for all the wrong reasons.  I’m realizing more than ever that my real problem is that I believe that the coach is of low character and I don’t want my son to play for him in any capacity.  I just wrote a dissertation on why I feel that way and deleted it.  It’s not important, really none of your business and I’m damn sure not going to bother defending myself, but it has nothing to do with playing time or even baseball.  I apologize to all of you if I was rude, but this was actually incredibly helpful in a totally unintended way.  Weird, but thank you.  

Unfortunately there are more than a few HS coaches that I wouldn’t want my son to play for either. Freshman HS baseball is almost always a disappointment. Many families set HS baseball as a milestone target and spent huge amounts of money and time getting prepared for it. Only to find out when they get there that nothing lives up to their expectations. And then they freak out. Playing HS baseball can be a great experience if expectations meet with reality, however IMO it’s rare when that happens. Usually parents expectations are not realistic and it takes time for them to realize that. After that you have to decide if the reality is tolerable for you or whether you need to find a better situation.

It’s not unusual for 14u players and their parents to get to high school ball and wonder “what happened.” Every year since whatever year they’ve been playing travel they’ve been a star. All of a sudden they’re playing 18/19u (high school) ball.The freshman who play varsity are usually physically ahead of the curve.

My experience going through the high school journey twice with baseball and softball was there were a lot of recent 14u studs and studdettes whose parents were frustrated and couldn’t grasp its now 18/19u ball and there are some very good upperclassmen ahead of their kids on the depth chart.

A great question a coach could ask to gain perspective on the parent’s thought process is asking who they believe their kid should be starting over. Chances are the correct answer is, no one.

But despite this there were players receiving college offers before they had a chance to start on varsity. It was a matter of depth on the high school teams. They escaped the depth issue playing on different travel teams.

@Nick0977 posted:

@TerribleBPthrower Funny how winning changes things for people.  Since my kid was three years old he has loved the game of baseball.  He’d hammer on me every day to go in the back yard so he could hit the ball over our fence with those big plastic red bats After all of the challenges my son has gone though over that last year or so, I honestly thought it was coming to an end.   I couldn’t care less about about wins and loses at this point.  He killed it this weekend.  Every damn day he steps on the field might as well be the World Series for me.  Even threw out a prominent big leaguers son today.  They called him safe, but he got him, but who really cares?  Thanks for trying to help and I apologize if I was a jerk.  Hope you too get to enjoy your son getting it done for as long as the game will let him.  

When my son was a freshman I cared about winning. There were several “projected” D1 players in his class and a lot of buzz around town about the freshman haul. Covid hit and ended the season. Then he was blessed to get in with some great travel coaches For the summer/fall and it really changed how my wife and I viewed this journey. My son was having the most fun I’d seen in years. HS came this year and I had decent hopes for a good season. That didn’t last long and my hopes turned to the season getting over and my son staying healthy.

He’s back with the summer team and they had their first tournament this weekend. Completely different vibe and my son was had a blast this weekend. Unfortunately he has to turn in an essay tonight by midnight.

I guess my point is there are a lot more bad school programs than good ones. We focused on what we could control most, and that is where he plays summer ball. We had more excitement this weekend than the entire 3.5 months of school ball.

Glad your son had a good weekend. Enjoy the summer season. Whatever you decide for school ball, just remember, your travel team and coaches will likely have a much greater impact on your son’s college recruitment.

I feel sad for you guys.  When my son was a freshman, he didn't love his school experience, we had questions, we thought there was bias, didn't understand a lot of what happened.  He couldn't quit or move - there was nowhere to go.  Four years went by, parts seemed to take forever, now it seems like a blink of an eye.

By senior year, we realized the program was great, his friends were great, his coaches were great, he had learned about baseball and more than baseball, we were really sorry to see it end. 

We certainly had our share of ups and downs with travel teams, so I might well say "there are more bad than good travel teams."  Funny, there are far fewer discussions about that, I wonder why?

@anotherparent I think if you asked my son he’d say he likes the HS team for all of the reasons you mentioned. He has great teammates and the coaches really seem to like and care about him. For us, it’s more the nonsense outside the fence.

You are right on though with the travel teams. I think that is a little more in the control of the individuals where the school situation isn’t. It took us a few years to find the right fit for a travel team, but we feel like we did. And the team that we feel is a perfect fit will probably be a bad experience for others.

There are a lot of good advice/shared experience here. I will add one more...your kid just experienced a near miss with an injury. I am pleased read he will make a full recovery, but some here were not as fortunate and that closed the window of opportunity for their kid moving to the next level...totally f-ed up. When your kid has a fighting change to comeback from a potential career ending injury, the HS BB politics and drama BS will go away.   

The truly funny part in all of this is I feel like I have been programmed to think that my son has to take the beaten path to continue his baseball journey.  I get putting in your dues and earning it, but when it’s clear that the guy on the other side of the fence is not a great mentor for your kid it becomes frustrating.  The thought of putting this guys name down as my kids advocate if and when he’s recruited turns my stomach.  Early on, I stayed for a couple of practices to see what they were doing and watch my kid.  Towards the end of practice a few parents and coaches are chatting and the coach is openly trashing some of his current and former players.  I’m not talking in good fun trash talk, I’m talking private stuff that I absolutely should not know.  I remember being blown away that I’m even privy to this information and that this is the last guy I want my son to play for, but now we’re stuck.  About 37 red flags later and I started to talk to people I trust and research the implications of not playing high school ball and still playing in college.  Might have even seen something here.  The long and short was that if he is able and doesn’t, there better be a good explanation.  That was kind of the origin of this feed.  When I got a lot of the early responses here it was very much the logic of there must be something wrong with you, the kid or both, I must admit it completely stoked my fears of my kid being stuck.  The good news is his summer program has a team that plays in a local JV league and I have built a team of phenomenal coaching professionals that love my kid and will help guide him on his journey.  His school is a feeder school to Georgia Tech so many of you were absolutely right, about putting the academics first.  If he wants to go back for his Junior or Senior season, that might be an option, but I believe more than ever that this is what’s best for my son.  

My son's HS coach and his HS record  had NOTHING to do with him getting into college.

Unless your son attends an IMG, an American Heritage, other private known for sports, or a powerhouse public school, follow the recommendations about travel programs and stop worrying about the 37 red flags.  Seriously.

Training and tournament play with coaches that have relationships is what's happening in FL,  unless your son attends any of the above.

I recommend a member's  You tube channel.  Josh Rudd, Quarantine Coaches series. Gives you an idea of what coaches are looking for in players.

@TPM I’ll check them out.  Thank you.  

@Nick0977  just wanted to touch base with you that my original post wasn't meant to be a personal attack.... I was just was trying to convey some ideas from a different point of view.

What age does he play for travel? (sorry if it was already mentioned, thread got very long)

@Nick0977 posted:

  The thought of putting this guys name down as my kids advocate if and when he’s recruited turns my stomach. 

My son's HS coach played for my son's college coach on the cape for two summers however it was my son's travel coach that assisted with the recruitment of my son at his college.   His HS coach didn't do anything and that's not to blast him.  He's a great guy, he really liked my son, he was a great college player (Big East player of year one year) but he doesn't reach out for his players.   For us, it was the travel program that made the biggest difference, not the HS program.   That doesn't mean my son didn't like his HS journey, he did very much.

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

@Nick0977  just wanted to touch base with you that my original post wasn't meant to be a personal attack.... I was just was trying to convey some ideas from a different point of view.

What age does he play for travel? (sorry if it was already mentioned, thread got very long)

No problem at all.  I completely understand where you were coming from.  As I mentioned before, I was off base on the why.  He is technically 14U because he’s a young freshman, but is playing 2024/15U this summer.  

A lot of us here had the same expectations that @Nick0977 has right now for the high school and coaching experience.  The harsh reality for almost all of us, was that our expectations were not at all realistic and looking back, largely laughable.  I, too, honestly believed that a good deal of development would be available to my son over the course of his 4 years in HS ball.  The reality - that is largely common, if not exclusive - is that no development happened for my son over the last 4 years due to the HS coach and the program.  Every piece of development my son got over the last 4 years came from elsewhere.  My son had to drive it all.  High school baseball mostly was an avenue to have fun and play with friends.  This grand vision for what I'd hope it'd entail, was a pipe dream.  Knowing that 4 years ago likely would have had me bitter, but today?  I simply accept it as reality, so I am not bitter.  Of course I still face palm when the coaches do dumb things, but I now have the perspective needed to realize the nothing burger it all is.

Yes, I too once believed that my son's high school baseball would be an integral piece to his recruiting approach.  And yes, the coach's name and number was attached to every email my son sent out.  My son sent out a lot of emails and established a good number of connections/relationships with coaches and RCs.  Guess how many ever reached out to my son's high school coach?  Exactly zero.  As TPM said above, unless your kid plays for IMG or the like, no one will ever speak to your kid's HS coach.

On my 2021's visit to the JUCO (Jayhawk conference) he's committed to, I asked the HC point blank if he had connected with my son's HS coach.  His response?  "No, why would I?"  He essentially said he doesn't have time to waste speaking with some English teacher pretending to be a baseball coach when he's largely a baby sitter throwing BP and filling out the lineup card for each game.  He said there was nothing of any value his HS coach could tell them that he couldn't/wouldn't find out on his own.  Not that my kid is some crazy stud, but he was his program's first commit of the 2021 class and got really good money.  Coaches really want to know exactly who they're offering their best money to, yet his coach didn't spend 5 minutes calling his HS coach?  That right there tells you how incredibly unimportant a HS coach is to 99.9% of college recruits out there.  My son was verbally offered after the coach came out to watch him play over a weekend.  In the 3 weeks from that verbal offer until we made it down for the visit (and offer specifics), we later learned my son was being "secret shopped" by the HC and his assistants.  And all this happened on his travel team - not his HS team.

My son was fortunate enough to get an offer he really liked, so he committed before some likely other ones came in.  But when he committed, he had two D2 offers to play both baseball and football (kicker/punter), two JUCO offers for baseball and got pretty close to getting offers from 3 D1s for baseball (thank God he didn't!).  So multiple offers and across 2 sports.  But his HS baseball and football coaches were never called.  Not once.  It seems like most everyone understands what HS coaches are except for freshmen parents.  That's not a shot - I swear.  In 2-3 years, it'll make perfect sense.  Believe me when I say that you are not entrusting your son's athletic future to any HS coach.

I will say here in Oklahoma, at least at my son's high school, the high school coach reached out to college coaches and vice versa...I know the exception doesnt disprove the rule and vice versa...but it probably also depends on who the high school coach is...my son's high school coach was a former college coach

DanJ,

So, my son's experience (albeit 10 years) ago did include college coaches calling his high school coach and travel coach.   Specifically, these were what I call "character calls" not performance calls.   They wanted to know what kind of teammate, leader, and about his academic and athletic work ethic.   Additionally, I've known others like my son (who I've helped with HA recruiting) over the years who's high school coaches have received similar calls.

Just my experience....

@Nick0977 posted:

No problem at all.  I completely understand where you were coming from.  As I mentioned before, I was off base on the why.  He is technically 14U because he’s a young freshman, but is playing 2024/15U this summer.  

2024 class and/or 15/16u is where I would recommend playing him as freshman in HS. Also don't get discourage if it takes a couple years to gain size. Stay in the gym and put some healthy weight on over the next couple years. He can take this time to develop good work-out habits. Staying honest on a training program/weight room can be just as mental as it is physical. Also to note, a break from catching might just be a blessing in disguise. It kills me to watch a great fundamental catcher with a injury prone/weakened arm (personal pet-peeve).

After all, I have personally seen the lack of versatility eliminate opportunities.

Best wishes going forward.....

@fenwaysouth posted:

DanJ,

So, my son's experience (albeit 10 years) ago did include college coaches calling his high school coach and travel coach.   Specifically, these were what I call "character calls" not performance calls.   They wanted to know what kind of teammate, leader, and about his academic and athletic work ethic.   Additionally, I've known others like my son (who I've helped with HA recruiting) over the years who's high school coaches have received similar calls.

Just my experience....

My experience is the same as yours Fenway

@ReluctantO'sFan Thank’s for the feedback.  We were  pretty limited on the options for this summer because he wasn’t medically cleared to play when a lot of the tryouts were offered.  I contacted one of the programs he had played for in the past and they were happy to take a flier on him, probably are cool with my money too He’s on the C or D team but that’s fine by me.  Game reps is what we were after given all the challenges of the last year or so.  Great program and a highly respected coach.  He and I couldn’t be happier.  

By sheer dumb luck, a guy with a masters In exercise kinesiology who interned with driveline opened up shop next door to his hitting and fielding instructors and he’s been working with him for about a month with great results.  He’s in fantastic hands across the board and better yet he loves the work.  The wait for the growth spurt is always a tough one, especially when a lot of his teammates and friends are shooting to 6’/160lbs.  He’s eating like a horse now and is sitting 5’8”ish, 130.  I think he’ll get to 5’10”, maybe a little more.  Packing on some muscle shouldn’t be a problem either as it came pretty easy for me when I was his age.  He’s never going to be the physical specimen that scouts drool over, but his skill set, drive and work ethic should give him a fighting chance.  

Thanks again and best of luck to you and yours as well.  

Yes, while my comments may sound comprehensive/superlative, I do recognize they're not 100% all encompassing.  But I would argue they're EFFECTIVELY 100% as far as setting up parental (and player) expectations.  I know of a few kids who largely pinned their recruiting approach around their HS coach.  In the 11th hour, reality finally hit and they scrambled to leverage the smarter pieces available.

And yes, I have no doubt that 10 years ago, college coaches were making much more contact with HS coaches.  But the differences between now and even 10 years ago to the recruiting model are massive.

As far as character calls go, I am sure they happen, but it's been my experience that they're largely not happening these days with HS coaches.  My son has close personal relationships with lots of D1, D2, D3 and JUCO commits and the character calls to HS coaches simply aren't happening.  It's a good sample size, but I suppose it's at least possible that the sample is an aberration.  I am hearing about character INSPECTIONS, but not character calls to HS coaches.  Where college coaches are pulling their character data through first hand observation or proxies.  They're watching players in the dugouts, in between games, heading out into the field, etc.  Last summer when my son was playing travel ball, some of his teammates were approached by prospective coaches after games asking about my son.  So there's no doubt college coaches care about character and are pulling that data.

I did ask a college coach from my kid's travel program about my kid's HS coach a while back and his reply was "Is he's still coaching?!" I politely laughed and that pretty much summed it up for me

To the point that people are paying attention when you don’t think they are:

Early in jr. season, son was very interested in a specific NE D3. Seemed a good fit across the board. He made contact w coach, sent in what little video he had and a transcript.  Coach writes back expressing mild but personal interest, says keep in touch. We live a bit west of there so coach couldn’t come and see him play. I had zero hope of the coach actually  following  up with my son.

Son then  has a couple of good games offensively and defensively, and steals a couple bases. Probably the best two-game sequence in his HS career.

Right after that, coach calls and said he “saw” the games and he’s definitely interested in him. We’re scratching our heads about him seeing son play. No way that happened.

Then we learn the coach’s DAD was on vacation in our neck of the woods, had attended the games, and reported back to the coach.

The baseball world is an intimate place and sometimes it’s even smaller than you will ever know.

@smoke wrote (brilliantly) ; “the baseball world is an intimate place and sometimes it’s even smaller than you will ever know.”

Then he dropped his mic and walked off the stage.

In our experience, there definitely were calls to my son’s HS coach when he was being recruited. They were cold calls after seeing my son’s contact info in perfect game or PBR, plus some in response to my son’s outreach even though he also gave the travel coach contact info. My thought on why that might have been is maybe the HS coach has a better idea if a player can meet the demands of the sport and school at same time, and also can tell if the player works hard even if it’s “less important than travel ball”.  

@smokeminside posted:

The baseball world is an intimate place and sometimes it’s even smaller than you will ever know.

Indeed.  It just proves the old adage, "You never know who's 'watching'."

@fenwaysouth posted:

DanJ,

So, my son's experience (albeit 10 years) ago did include college coaches calling his high school coach and travel coach.   Specifically, these were what I call "character calls" not performance calls.   They wanted to know what kind of teammate, leader, and about his academic and athletic work ethic.   Additionally, I've known others like my son (who I've helped with HA recruiting) over the years who's high school coaches have received similar calls.

Just my experience....

This was my experience. College coaches contacted the high school coach to ask about character, leadership and did they keep up on their academics.

My daughter’s high school softball coach was also part of the travel program. My son’s baseball coach detested his travel team’s assistant coach. But it never got in the way.

@fenwaysouth posted:

DanJ,

So, my son's experience (albeit 10 years) ago did include college coaches calling his high school coach and travel coach.   Specifically, these were what I call "character calls" not performance calls.   They wanted to know what kind of teammate, leader, and about his academic and athletic work ethic.   Additionally, I've known others like my son (who I've helped with HA recruiting) over the years who's high school coaches have received similar calls.

Just my experience....

My son's current college coach came to one of his HS practices 3000 miles away and met with the coach and observed...

@adbono posted:

@smoke wrote (brilliantly) ; “the baseball world is an intimate place and sometimes it’s even smaller than you will ever know.”

Then he dropped his mic and walked off the stage.

I was imagining dropping his lei and grabbed his board

My son played the first 3 years of HS ball for a coach that's in the state hall of fame after a 33 year career. His senior year he played for a first-time coach (assistant to the hall of famer previously). When we were sending out emails, we always included the former coach in the contacts as well as his current coach. The current coach didn't receive any calls, but the former one received several. Probably because he was so well known and respected.

@2022NYC posted:

I was imagining dropping his lei and grabbed his board

shoots, brah...

Interesting thread.  My biggest takeaways:

1. So glad that we are not in the same boat as football and have the option of travel ball for recruiting purposes.  Football is 100% dependent on HS, can I can't imagine being stuck in a HS program with a bad coach.

2. Given that recruiting mostly happens in summer travel ball, I would base my decision almost purely on academics and social/peer group influence of the school.

3. If the school has a bad HS coach or program, then my son can learn just as much (if not more) in terms of character building.  The only time I would let the HS coach or team influence my decision is if there is truly bad influence/integrity issues (i.e. alcohol, drugs, cheating, etc.) - which I guess is related to #2 above.  I do not consider HS baseball politics, HS coach ineptitude or unfair playing time as a bad influence/integrity issue.  I guess even then, if the academics and social influence outside of the baseball team is not an issue, I would still stay in the school and not have my son play baseball for the school (he can play for one of the HS baseball alternative travel league that is becoming more popular around here).

@atlnon posted:

Interesting thread.  My biggest takeaways:

1. So glad that we are not in the same boat as football and have the option of travel ball for recruiting purposes.  Football is 100% dependent on HS, can I can't imagine being stuck in a HS program with a bad coach.

2. Given that recruiting mostly happens in summer travel ball, I would base my decision almost purely on academics and social/peer group influence of the school.

3. If the school has a bad HS coach or program, then my son can learn just as much (if not more) in terms of character building.  The only time I would let the HS coach or team influence my decision is if there is truly bad influence/integrity issues (i.e. alcohol, drugs, cheating, etc.) - which I guess is related to #2 above.  I do not consider HS baseball politics, HS coach ineptitude or unfair playing time as a bad influence/integrity issue.  I guess even then, if the academics and social influence outside of the baseball team is not an issue, I would still stay in the school and not have my son play baseball for the school (he can play for one of the HS baseball alternative travel league that is becoming more popular around here).

You could choose not to play for your HS and (theoretically) still be recruited. That’s true. But it would be a big red flag to a college RC. Not saying it couldn’t be overcome but Lucy would have a lot of splaining to do.

@adbono posted:

You could choose not to play for your HS and (theoretically) still be recruited. That’s true. But it would be a big red flag to a college RC. Not saying it couldn’t be overcome but Lucy would have a lot of splaining to do.

Yes.  Totally agree.  And I hope that drugs/alcohol/etc. issue is something that college recruiters and coaches will appreciate and respect.

But this is all theoretical for us as we don't have that problem in his HS.  We love his HS and teammates, and his HS coach values and trusts my son.

I think those are good points.  To not play HS ball, I'd want my son to be able to point to something truly egregious.  Anything less runs the risk of either looking suspect and/or coming off as white noise.

I will chime in.  Is there politics, money any of those issues in high school baseball - sure.  Are they at my sons high school - possible.  My question is - what can I do about it?  Nothing.  Deals and politicking behind closed doors are situations I have no control over - and neither does my son.   Best bet is to work towards his goal.  Is it to play in college - then work towards it.  Tune out all the noise in the background and work on what you can control and try and forget the rest. 

Atlnon - good to hear you guys have a good coach.  My son left the school when the basketball coach was made the baseball coach.  Now he was a terrible baseball coach.  In halftime during the basketball games you could hear him screaming at the players in the locker room over the crowd - he did win at basketball though.

In Wisconsin there is a High School Spring League run by the Hitters travel program (the #1 travel program in the state, and one of the best regionally.  Gavin Lux of the Dodgers, Ben Rortvedt of the Twins, and Jarred Kelenic of the Mariners all came out of that program, as well as many other MLB and MiLB players)

Alot of kids choose to play in that League instead of for their high school.  It’s well scouted by MLB, and lots of D1 commits play in it.  It’s not an issue as far as recruitment goes.  It was definitely NOT a “red flag” for my son in his recruitment, or the hundreds of other kids who came out of that league and played in college.

It could be a unique situation that isn’t available in other states.

@3and2Fastball posted:

In Wisconsin there is a High School Spring League run by the Hitters travel program (the #1 travel program in the state, and one of the best regionally.  Gavin Lux of the Dodgers, Ben Rortvedt of the Twins, and Jarred Kelenic of the Mariners all came out of that program, as well as many other MLB and MiLB players)

Alot of kids choose to play in that League instead of for their high school.  It’s well scouted by MLB, and lots of D1 commits play in it.  It’s not an issue as far as recruitment goes.  It was definitely NOT a “red flag” for my son in his recruitment, or the hundreds of other kids who came out of that league and played in college.

It could be a unique situation that isn’t available in other states.

There are a few programs like this in FL and a bunch more on the way. I was speaking to a HS coach yesterday who was telling me he is helping someone get one started and depending on how quickly it grows he might jump ship to it permanently.