The biggest problem(for lack of a better word) in rec ball isn't so much the types of coaches since you can have good rec coaches and lousy travel ones. The problem is the level of play drops off from the top player in the league who's likely an all-star and travel player while the worst player in the league has no clue of his surroundings and probably would rather be somewhere else than rotting in RF for an inning and an AB but is on the field because everybody has to play in rec ball. Which is fine. That's what rec ball is about.
With the travel leagues, at least from top to bottom in the talent pool, the kids can play and want to play. Just that alone makes it better for the ballplayer looking to improve in his game.
When my kid started playing travel at 13, the biggest benefit to him was the better pitching he faced game-in and game-out in travel. That, more than anything prepared him to handle hitting at the high school level and not just hitting the decent pitchers but top pitchers in the conference. As for his fielding, it was gonna be there no matter where he played with the only diffence being the travel league games were played at a faster pace than most typical rec games and got more action in the OF because the hitting was better.
As for playing travel under 13, he really didn't have to because the local league is huge and most of the local high school ballplayers came thru that league. Since it's a CR/BR league, it's CR/BR all-star tournament team were able to play in open travel tournaments as well as the WS tournament, so he had rec, all-stars and travel built into one league. Otherwise, at his skill level, he probably would've tried out for a travel team but it wasn't necessary.
quote:Originally posted by Daque:
ZD: You chose wisely but your son did not. But then he is a kid.
So, once again for kicks and giggles, please explain.
ZD: The first answer you selected was to have your son on a rec team with a great coach rather than a travel team with a mediocre coach. This, in my opinion, was a wise choice since good coaching is more important than playing lots of games for player development.
You then chose to have your son play on a team that practiced rather than just playing games. Again, a wise decision because practice with lots of reps is where you learn. How many ground balls will be fielded by an F6 in an average game? Maybe 4 or 5? Same goes for reps with batting technique and working on defensive situations. A player learns in practice and uses what he has learned in games.
Your son, on the other hand, chose to play and start on the freshman team which generally is a short season with too many dead wood players. While he would have played less with the varsity team the practices would have been much more educational and challenging. As far as development goes sitting the bench with the varsity in games is trumped by practicing with varsity against tougher pitching and overall stiffer competition.
For most players being assigned to the frosh is a death knell. Excel there or flip burgers next season. Quality frosh are on JV and given the opportunity, and rejecting it, to be nurtured by the varsity coach also sends the wrong message about how serious a player is. This is the age to be the best you can be and get an edge for the next season, it now a sprint to excellence ahead of your peers. There is plenty of time to be had playing summer ball and having been a varsity player gives a player some clout.
You then chose to have your son play on a team that practiced rather than just playing games. Again, a wise decision because practice with lots of reps is where you learn. How many ground balls will be fielded by an F6 in an average game? Maybe 4 or 5? Same goes for reps with batting technique and working on defensive situations. A player learns in practice and uses what he has learned in games.
Your son, on the other hand, chose to play and start on the freshman team which generally is a short season with too many dead wood players. While he would have played less with the varsity team the practices would have been much more educational and challenging. As far as development goes sitting the bench with the varsity in games is trumped by practicing with varsity against tougher pitching and overall stiffer competition.
For most players being assigned to the frosh is a death knell. Excel there or flip burgers next season. Quality frosh are on JV and given the opportunity, and rejecting it, to be nurtured by the varsity coach also sends the wrong message about how serious a player is. This is the age to be the best you can be and get an edge for the next season, it now a sprint to excellence ahead of your peers. There is plenty of time to be had playing summer ball and having been a varsity player gives a player some clout.
I know you have me blocked Daque, but it depends on the program. Many well thought of coaches don't care about Freshman or JV. If you are not on Varsity, you play with your age group to develop the team concept. A lot of times it is better to play on the freshman squad. JV is sometimes filled with players who have little chance to ever play varsity but they want them to be kept in the program to fill uniforms. JV is where more careers end than Freshman IMO.
Doug he is in his own little hypothetical world. He qualifies everything to fit his views. Rec team with great coach VS travel team with poor coach. In fact he is reversing the reality. Rec teams are normally loaded with poor ball players who reluctantly practice if at all They are generally run by Dads which is great for their kids who wouldn't make a great allstar team if they paid double the fee.
I have vivid memories of my son's forced experience with rec ball. I remember he was in LF and a pop up to SS. He raced in knowing the guy wouldn't catch the ball. It popped out of his glove and he dove ca thing it before it hit ground. I remember watching routine plays that the blew 99% of the time. I don't think I ever saw a double play unless he started it.
All of his idle meanderings forget that a good talent won't settle for rec ball unless forced to. He can make up all the scenarios he likes but the fact is the sooner you learn correct skills the more likely you will advance to the next level. Most coaches won't even look at a rec player unless he is an absolute stud. Ain't going to happen unless the coach needs bodies.
I have vivid memories of my son's forced experience with rec ball. I remember he was in LF and a pop up to SS. He raced in knowing the guy wouldn't catch the ball. It popped out of his glove and he dove ca thing it before it hit ground. I remember watching routine plays that the blew 99% of the time. I don't think I ever saw a double play unless he started it.
All of his idle meanderings forget that a good talent won't settle for rec ball unless forced to. He can make up all the scenarios he likes but the fact is the sooner you learn correct skills the more likely you will advance to the next level. Most coaches won't even look at a rec player unless he is an absolute stud. Ain't going to happen unless the coach needs bodies.
You will also notice he contradicts himself. He also says he doesn't compare travel vs rec but he congratulates ZD on his choice of rec ball over the nasty travel team with poor coaches.
quote:Originally posted by Doughnutman:
I know you have me blocked Daque, but it depends on the program. Many well thought of coaches don't care about Freshman or JV. If you are not on Varsity, you play with your age group to develop the team concept. A lot of times it is better to play on the freshman squad. JV is sometimes filled with players who have little chance to ever play varsity but they want them to be kept in the program to fill uniforms. JV is where more careers end than Freshman IMO.
This is the case at Zacks school-not really by age but by grade because actually Zack is older than the other kids on the team.
Zack is and has always been a CF'r. Coach asked him if he wanted to play varsity and play 4 or 5 innings a game or be the starting CF'r on the JV team and play every inning.
The varsity already has 2 cf'rs that are both varsity in rf and it was said point blank that if Zack was faster than the seniors he would be there. Zack just hasn't grown into his feet yet but makes up for it with reads, routes, etc. But ultimately this is Zack's decision-I explained to him the good and bad of both scenarios and let him make the decision. And FWIW I actually agree with the decision in thinking (hoping) that he will play on both squads. Varsity coach spent an hour with just him in the cage after school so I think he "likes" him LOL.
I welcome all thoughts and opinions.
My son was varsity from day 1. He was a polished 6'2 150lbs LHP. His experience was obvious and he was already pitching against college players. He wasn't overly fast but kept up with most players. He was about 7.2 in the 60. He also had great read off the bat and his foot work was excellent. He was an average hitter but we knew he was going to just pitch eventually. He had great hands and balance. He was never hit by a come backer although 1 tested him pretty good.
He pitched all the big games in his freshman year and was MVP. He handed the best team in the league their 1st loss. They had 3 drafted players and several college players. One is in MLB.
The way I see it everything you do is a step in the direction you want to go. He was taught how to pitch and play. When the ball was put in play he knew what to do and where to go. When he played I watched him and not the game. I watched what he did and how he reacted. I videoed him and not the game. I would then go through the video and we would talk about mis ques etc. You would be amazed at how untrained some pitchers are. I see them stand on the mound not knowing what to do. Our practices where 2-3 times a week and 4 hours long. They were set up in stations just like college and MLB. There were 4-5 knowledgeable coaches at each practice and game. We usually had 3-4 games a week and occasionally 1 mid week. The coaches gave lectures all winter in a class room on strategy and skills. The actual season was short but the fall and travel added up to 75-80 games. I never spent more than 2200 and the total was between 6-7 thousand. We had a large return 1st year of college. My accounting degree tells me my investment paid off big in year 1.
My son played on as many as 5 teams a season for at least 3 years until the year before college. He spent more time on a part time job and just played elite.
This return on investment doesn't even take into consideration the fun our family had. We like many took the BB trips as holidays.
My guy has for now stopped playing and is concentrating on his career. He has been home for 2 weeks but is heading to Wilmington NC until his fiancé graduates next spring and then they will deal with the job offers he has. We are very content with him moving on. They are planning a plantation wedding in Charleston within 2 years. This is all very exciting to us.
He pitched all the big games in his freshman year and was MVP. He handed the best team in the league their 1st loss. They had 3 drafted players and several college players. One is in MLB.
The way I see it everything you do is a step in the direction you want to go. He was taught how to pitch and play. When the ball was put in play he knew what to do and where to go. When he played I watched him and not the game. I watched what he did and how he reacted. I videoed him and not the game. I would then go through the video and we would talk about mis ques etc. You would be amazed at how untrained some pitchers are. I see them stand on the mound not knowing what to do. Our practices where 2-3 times a week and 4 hours long. They were set up in stations just like college and MLB. There were 4-5 knowledgeable coaches at each practice and game. We usually had 3-4 games a week and occasionally 1 mid week. The coaches gave lectures all winter in a class room on strategy and skills. The actual season was short but the fall and travel added up to 75-80 games. I never spent more than 2200 and the total was between 6-7 thousand. We had a large return 1st year of college. My accounting degree tells me my investment paid off big in year 1.
My son played on as many as 5 teams a season for at least 3 years until the year before college. He spent more time on a part time job and just played elite.
This return on investment doesn't even take into consideration the fun our family had. We like many took the BB trips as holidays.
My guy has for now stopped playing and is concentrating on his career. He has been home for 2 weeks but is heading to Wilmington NC until his fiancé graduates next spring and then they will deal with the job offers he has. We are very content with him moving on. They are planning a plantation wedding in Charleston within 2 years. This is all very exciting to us.
quote:Originally posted by Doughnutman:
If you are not on Varsity, you play with your age group to develop the team concept. A lot of times it is better to play on the freshman squad. JV is sometimes filled with players who have little chance to ever play varsity but they want them to be kept in the program to fill uniforms. JV is where more careers end than Freshman IMO.
I agree with this statement as opposed to frosh ball being the death sentence. When my son played HS ball, most of the key cuts were players going thru JV. Freshman kids are given a shot to develop and the ones who got cut for frosh ball had no real chance in the first place. JV is where the coaches see the development or the lack of it to play at the next level and the players who stick it out in JV thru their junior year typically will make varsity although they'll have to do a lot to get some playing time and have an idea their roles may be limited.
When my kid made the freshman team, he platooned and only got about 25 ABs in his freshman year. Part of that may be frosh coach is learning who the players are and in my son's case, he did most of his pitching freshman year because he had a strong arm. As he developed in the system, he got away from pitching and developed more as an offensive force and worked on his hitting and improve his speed because he was an outfielder and the way to win a starting spot in the OF was to hit and cover ground in the OF. It was his bat that won him a starter on the varsity batting in the middle of the order. Although when he made varsity, he played LF but once the coach saw he was more comfortable in his natural spot in RF during practices I assume, and had the strongest OF arm, he eventually moved back to RF and also played some CF. His defense improved each year He went on to lead in OF assists his last 3 years between JV and varsity, committed only one error in his last 2 years as a starter in the outfield and he may currently be the last player to get four hits in his conference in a conference tournament game since he graduated two seasons ago.
He paid his dues and wasn't in a baseball cemetary just because he played freshman ball. From what I've seen it's how they developed in JV.
I think the focus on my comments got diverted to frosh vs JV but that is OK as it is a valid discussion point. The kids not making freshman ball are not HS material. Rare exceptions. The better frosh advance to JV to be tested at that level. They may or may not advance to varsity the following season depending on a lot of factors. The juniors on JV will be weeded out with a few making varsity with limited playing time depending on the talent level. An occasional frosh may be given the opportunity to work out with the varsity. At least that is how it was and maybe no more since I have been away from the game. Of course we have not even touched on political picks.
The purpose of the three questions was to define factors considered to be more important by the board particicpants.
Question 1 was about picking a strong team or a strong coach as the pick relates to player development. Can you develop more rapidly playing a lot of games against good competition or with good coaching? That was the focus of the question.
The second question reveals how important you consider practice to be contrasted to lots of games.
The third and final question addresses the imortance of challenging yourself against stronger competition in practice with better coaching, where it counts, rather than playing more in games against weaker competition with weaker coaching.
I have no hidden agendas. I am not trying to make you look stupid or belittle you. Nor am I here to be belittled or called names. I accept that I may be out of touch since I have not been in the US for many years. Take what you can use and ignore the rest without being so disagreeable. I am trying to make you think in generalities rather than focusing on a particular school, league, or team.
Those of you who who are happy with your decisions and do not desire to have your belief systems challenged would be better served to ignore my posts as I have ignored three posters who cannot be civil. Why be aggrevated? I was only offering what I could from my knowledge and experiences. I am now pretty convinced that this is not the correct place for me to discuss the game and perhaps how it has changed or how it differs in other countries. I will have to think on that.
The purpose of the three questions was to define factors considered to be more important by the board particicpants.
Question 1 was about picking a strong team or a strong coach as the pick relates to player development. Can you develop more rapidly playing a lot of games against good competition or with good coaching? That was the focus of the question.
The second question reveals how important you consider practice to be contrasted to lots of games.
The third and final question addresses the imortance of challenging yourself against stronger competition in practice with better coaching, where it counts, rather than playing more in games against weaker competition with weaker coaching.
I have no hidden agendas. I am not trying to make you look stupid or belittle you. Nor am I here to be belittled or called names. I accept that I may be out of touch since I have not been in the US for many years. Take what you can use and ignore the rest without being so disagreeable. I am trying to make you think in generalities rather than focusing on a particular school, league, or team.
Those of you who who are happy with your decisions and do not desire to have your belief systems challenged would be better served to ignore my posts as I have ignored three posters who cannot be civil. Why be aggrevated? I was only offering what I could from my knowledge and experiences. I am now pretty convinced that this is not the correct place for me to discuss the game and perhaps how it has changed or how it differs in other countries. I will have to think on that.
quote:Those of you who who are happy with your decisions and do not desire to have your belief systems challenged would be better served to ignore my posts as I have ignored three posters who cannot be civil. Why be aggravated? I was only offering what I could from my knowledge and experiences.
I know I am president of your ignore list (self appointed)
Daque to have a valid discussion you have to listen to theirs who have current and more experience than you may.
Nice to see you may be recognizing that you may be out of touch which doesn't necessarily make your opinion invalid. I would be nice if you opened your belief system to some of these posters going forward..
The reason we have had our boys play tournament ball rather that league is due mostly to the pitching.
They see MUCH better and more consitant pitching both in velocity and control at the tournament level. I think of it as season long All Stars.
They see MUCH better and more consitant pitching both in velocity and control at the tournament level. I think of it as season long All Stars.
How was the instruction ?
The players on the team were probably more dedicated and talented across the board.
The players on the team were probably more dedicated and talented across the board.
Like you said in a previous post, blanket statements can't be made due to each region's situation being different. It can even vary from school program to program. The following examples are both large school classification programs. One school just happens to be huge ....quote:A lot of times it is better to play on the freshman squad. JV is sometimes filled with players who have little chance to ever play varsity but they want them to be kept in the program to fill uniforms. JV is where more careers end than Freshman
At my son's high school, playing freshman ball is close to a kiss of death unless a kid makes late, rapid development. The best freshmen start on JV. Depending on the varsity situation and/or the individual's talent level a kid may start two years of JV. Very few sophs start on varsity. Some get called up. My son was the first opening day soph starter in six years. Last season had the first frosh varsity starter ever.
At a nearby huge high school, freshmen play freshman ball. Unless they're a stud they will be playing JV ball soph year. There are very few three year lettermen at this school.
RJM
What's a huge school there? Ours are 3000 plus enrollment and we have:
Sophomore team (don't know why it's called that instead of freshman.)
JV
Varsity
Vast majority of freshmen play on the sophomore team,some JV very rarely one makes varsity.
What's a huge school there? Ours are 3000 plus enrollment and we have:
Sophomore team (don't know why it's called that instead of freshman.)
JV
Varsity
Vast majority of freshmen play on the sophomore team,some JV very rarely one makes varsity.
Large starts at 2,000 since there are only four classfications. The larger school I referenced has about 5,000 kids in three grades. Talk about an advantage over a 2,000 enrollment. There has been talk of having a fifth and/or sixth level classification.
Bigger isn't always better. My sons Freshman class is 800 kids. The smallest of the 4 grades. First day, not enough time for lunch, freshman go last and he was still standing in line with about 200 other kids when they had to go to class. PE lockers? Not enough. Where do you put size 15 PE shoes and sweaty shirts and shorts when the back pack is already stuffed and they don't allow personal lockers? Not a good couple of days so far.
Situation does vary greatly from program to program and kid to kid.
My son's HS has 3,050 students. Our '09 summer ball group was 27 freshmen, 22 JV, 22 Varsity. It was small because most of the seniors were playing Connie Mack or other elite leagues. In spring try-outs for JV/Varsity last year, there were about 75. Freshman had about 35 more.
My son was a 6'2" 185lb LHP when he tried out and last year became the first freshman ever to be moved up beyond freshman for his freshman season. He pitched for the varsity, who finished in the final 4 of 5A-I and had 3 DI signings and a player drafted. Their final record was 25-9. Son was 3-1 with 3 saves.
Why was he moved up? They needed pitching and he could pitch.
The point? At our school, freshmen playing freshmen is the cardinal rule, not the kiss of death. My kid could fill a very unique need and got moved up. He had pitched against JC kids in the fall of his 9th grade year and pitched very well in the AZ Sophomore Classic. He'd proven, through advanced travel ball, that he could get older, more talented hitters out, so he got a chance.
Don't think the HS coach didn't consult local area scouts before he made the choice to take a spot away from a Junior and send him to JV before he moved a freshman up. He so much as told me he'd consulted several scouts prior to making the decision.
Local area scouts don't attend recreational league games unless their car breaks down nearby and their cell phone battery is dead.
Flip side is that his freshman buddies all hit 3-7 HRs. He got exactly 1 AB at varsity and 8 plate appearances at JV (playing 2 games) going 3-4 with 4 BB's. This part was very frustrating.
Moral of the story, put your kid in the situation where he can flourish. In a big school, that may be freshman. In a medium\small school, that may be JV or Varsity. In my kid's place, he projects as a LHP. Getting exposure on a great team 'got him on the radar' and so it was all worth it. He'll get lots of ABs this fall to catch up.
If the kid can play, the coach will find him...
My son's HS has 3,050 students. Our '09 summer ball group was 27 freshmen, 22 JV, 22 Varsity. It was small because most of the seniors were playing Connie Mack or other elite leagues. In spring try-outs for JV/Varsity last year, there were about 75. Freshman had about 35 more.
My son was a 6'2" 185lb LHP when he tried out and last year became the first freshman ever to be moved up beyond freshman for his freshman season. He pitched for the varsity, who finished in the final 4 of 5A-I and had 3 DI signings and a player drafted. Their final record was 25-9. Son was 3-1 with 3 saves.
Why was he moved up? They needed pitching and he could pitch.
The point? At our school, freshmen playing freshmen is the cardinal rule, not the kiss of death. My kid could fill a very unique need and got moved up. He had pitched against JC kids in the fall of his 9th grade year and pitched very well in the AZ Sophomore Classic. He'd proven, through advanced travel ball, that he could get older, more talented hitters out, so he got a chance.
Don't think the HS coach didn't consult local area scouts before he made the choice to take a spot away from a Junior and send him to JV before he moved a freshman up. He so much as told me he'd consulted several scouts prior to making the decision.
Local area scouts don't attend recreational league games unless their car breaks down nearby and their cell phone battery is dead.
Flip side is that his freshman buddies all hit 3-7 HRs. He got exactly 1 AB at varsity and 8 plate appearances at JV (playing 2 games) going 3-4 with 4 BB's. This part was very frustrating.
Moral of the story, put your kid in the situation where he can flourish. In a big school, that may be freshman. In a medium\small school, that may be JV or Varsity. In my kid's place, he projects as a LHP. Getting exposure on a great team 'got him on the radar' and so it was all worth it. He'll get lots of ABs this fall to catch up.
If the kid can play, the coach will find him...
6'2" freshman LHP's are not the norm from which to draw general conclusions.
Just because you are a 6'2 LHP doesn't mean you can pitch and compete, you have to learn fron top coaching and competition. You have to believe you can pitch and top experience is the only teacher.
Bobblehead: Exactly. It's just another 'thing'.
In a big school (small pond in the grand scheme), to compete with the bigger fish, you have to be a big fish. The 4'2" kid better do something REALLY well to get noticed at the tryout.
The 6'2" LHP throwing in the mid 80's with control, poise and competing gets a look. When coach throws him out there in varsity tryouts against the meat of the senior ladden varsity order starting with a 2-1 count and he retires 6 out of 7 and coach asks him, 'how did that feel' and he says, 'I missed my location on that one pitch to the D-I signee & he burned me for the double to right center, but it won't happen again coach. I was throwing under his hands because I've seen the ink that he can't hit that pitch, but I missed by a 6" and he drove it. Got the next guy on a pop up to end it. I won't do that again, sorry coach'.
This was a true story...
It sounds better than from the 4'2" RHP younger freshman, 'ummm Good?', after displaying a below average arm, speed, power, average and defensive ability.
Maturity on the field comes from competing against great players, getting humbled and coming back. Baseball isn't easy and you have to compete against the best to discover where you really are and where you have to grow. Jr could easily have gone out this season and thrown fastballs by other freshmen, but that isn't growth. That's dominating marginal competition.
There are lots of fish in the sea. In our little pond, JR stands out, yet when he plays against the best in the West, the water gets deeper and JR stops throwing fastballs and starts pitching. In HS this past season, he pitched to 3 draft picks and 16 kids who signed D-I. Don't blow many FB by those guys...
You've got to play against the best to be the best. You have to be perpared to NOT succeed all the time to take those next steps.
Just my 2 cents.
In a big school (small pond in the grand scheme), to compete with the bigger fish, you have to be a big fish. The 4'2" kid better do something REALLY well to get noticed at the tryout.
The 6'2" LHP throwing in the mid 80's with control, poise and competing gets a look. When coach throws him out there in varsity tryouts against the meat of the senior ladden varsity order starting with a 2-1 count and he retires 6 out of 7 and coach asks him, 'how did that feel' and he says, 'I missed my location on that one pitch to the D-I signee & he burned me for the double to right center, but it won't happen again coach. I was throwing under his hands because I've seen the ink that he can't hit that pitch, but I missed by a 6" and he drove it. Got the next guy on a pop up to end it. I won't do that again, sorry coach'.
This was a true story...
It sounds better than from the 4'2" RHP younger freshman, 'ummm Good?', after displaying a below average arm, speed, power, average and defensive ability.
Maturity on the field comes from competing against great players, getting humbled and coming back. Baseball isn't easy and you have to compete against the best to discover where you really are and where you have to grow. Jr could easily have gone out this season and thrown fastballs by other freshmen, but that isn't growth. That's dominating marginal competition.
There are lots of fish in the sea. In our little pond, JR stands out, yet when he plays against the best in the West, the water gets deeper and JR stops throwing fastballs and starts pitching. In HS this past season, he pitched to 3 draft picks and 16 kids who signed D-I. Don't blow many FB by those guys...
You've got to play against the best to be the best. You have to be perpared to NOT succeed all the time to take those next steps.
Just my 2 cents.
A couple posters have PM'd me and are wondering why Daque had pushed his view about pre 16 travel ball vs rec ball not being necessary for youth development.What is he trying to achieve?
The best I can figure he is trying to save all parents from their own stupidity. That is insulting to my INNATE intelligence.
The best I can figure he is trying to save all parents from their own stupidity. That is insulting to my INNATE intelligence.
You guys have touched on one of the biggest issues with discussion like this on the Internet...
It's a natural reaction for people to think that everyone's baseball environment is like their own. Every place is different, and those differences influences choices for athletes (and parents).
If you bear with me I'll share two examples I have personal knowledge / experience with.
I know a kid who grew up in a small town. As in his graduating class was less than 200 kids. The High School had a strong football program, for the area they competed in, but they never did much in baseball. Most years it seemed they were lucky to field a team. Growing up he played in the local youth rec league. The way he played there is still talked about by kids that played with him and coaches. Was a he a good player? Most definitely. But his talent / ability was magnified by the small pool of players around him. One Fall (They didn't have and Fall Baseball there) his Dad came home to the kid throwing a baseball against his pitch back. They talked and the kid expressed how disappointed he was that there wasn't any baseball to be played after LL was over. That caused Dad to get together with a couple of other Dads and try to put together a league. There simply wasn't enough interest. They ended up with 10 kids from the area who wanted to play. Surprise, surprise, they were 10 of the better players. One day at work the Dad mentioned to his Boss (the Dad commuted to a medium size city to work) that lack of Fall Baseball. Next thing you know the Dad is taking the team into the town to scrimmage a team his Boss knew of. By the end of the Fall they were playing a game or two most weekends against different teams in the area.
The kid made the HS Varsity as a FR. He still played with his "Fall Team" after the HS season. They traveled to a couple of tournaments in the next state over. The Team now fielded the best few players from the few surrounding High Schools. More than several of those kids went on to play College / Pro ball after being noticed at some of the bigger tournaments the Fall Team played in. Those kids still played High School...they wanted to play for their school and with their friends. The kid in question played D1 ball. Got as high as AAA before moving on after getting married and having a kid.
Would the kid(s) in question have played at the next level if they hadn't played "travel" ball? I hear people say "If you're good enough you'll get noticed." Noticed by who? What college recruiters or pro scouts routinely go out to small out of the way town / schools to check out one player? Many assume that the kid is probably considered "so good" because of the competition, or lack of, around him.
And another:
A Dad is transferred by his company. They pick up and move two states over. The kid is a pretty good ball player. He's a rising Freshman, already working with the High School Varsity staff to get ready to play the following Spring. Now he's the new kid in town. No one knows who he is.
He shows up and tries out for his new HS Team. He along with over 125 other kids show up. He runs, throws, takes a few ground balls and a few cuts. He's asked if he pitches, he says he does, and he's supposed to pitch for one of the coaches. He never does. Try outs / practice ends.
Kid doesn't make the first cut.
Note: This High School in question does not have Middle School / Junior High Ball, and does not have a FR team. JV and V only.
A local Travel Coach was helping with the tryouts at the request of one of the coaches. He notices this kid. Notices he doesn't get a look at all. He flags down the kid in the parking lot the next day before the 2nd day of tryouts. Asked the kid why he's not going to the field. Kid replies that he was cut. The Coach can't believe it. Talks the Varsity Coach into taking a look at the kid after tryouts that day. So the kid gets on the mound and throws. BTW....14 years old. 6', lanky build, Mom is tall and an ex-college VB player, Dad is over 6'2" and was a good athlete. Throws gas. Good CU, great control and a nasty breaking ball. Varsity Coach doesn't seem impressed...tells the kid to come back out tomorrow after tryouts and he'll let him throw live to a "few of his players from last year".
Next day, the "few players" are his best 5-6 returning Varsity Players. He proceeds to make them look silly.
Kid makes the JV team. Pitches some there, moves up to V and throws some. Does very well. Has two wins in post-season play. Lots of ****ed off parents giving the coach grief about the "new kid". Kid "makes" the HS Summer Team, but hardly plays. Ends up playing with the Travel Coach some that Fall..on a 16U Team. Gets playing time and does extremely well.
As a Soph, kid makes the JV. Pitches some but doesn't play much at all. Never steps foot on the V Team. Has to be talked into playing Summer ball with the Travel Coach again. Does well again. Very well.
Over the Summer break, kid decides he's going to apply for an academic scholarship at a local private school. They have a HIGH Academic standard, and also have several college level courses that are in his planned field of study for college. Says he "might play ball" but he's concentrating on school and college after that. Gets the academic ride. The school starts a baseball program that year. Kid is asked to play, does and leads the team to a post season run in it's first year. Plays Summer / Fall ball at several large showcase tournaments. Gets more than a few letters and contacts. None from the school he wants to study at, so he keeps that as his focus. Returns to the private school as a Senior...a 6'3" 200lb senior. With mid to high 80's FB and good off speed stuff.
The private HS plays in a local pre-season tournament sponsored by the High School he started at. He pitches a complete game shutout against their team. Travel coach is making calls and trying to make contacts at the school the kid intends on going to anyway (For academics) but they also happen to have a strong baseball program. Kid trys out for one of the Coaches. He's asked to come back and do it again. Kid signs to play ball and study there. Gets his degree. Gets drafted. Decides to give it a shot. Currently playing AA ball, and projects well.
Would this kid have ended up where he is if it wasn't for "Travel" baseball and that Coach?
Sure these are extreme examples...but it shows you that every situation and every person is different.
So maybe don't be so quick to discounts someone else's opinions here, as maybe, just maybe, their particular situation is much different than your own.
It's a natural reaction for people to think that everyone's baseball environment is like their own. Every place is different, and those differences influences choices for athletes (and parents).
If you bear with me I'll share two examples I have personal knowledge / experience with.
I know a kid who grew up in a small town. As in his graduating class was less than 200 kids. The High School had a strong football program, for the area they competed in, but they never did much in baseball. Most years it seemed they were lucky to field a team. Growing up he played in the local youth rec league. The way he played there is still talked about by kids that played with him and coaches. Was a he a good player? Most definitely. But his talent / ability was magnified by the small pool of players around him. One Fall (They didn't have and Fall Baseball there) his Dad came home to the kid throwing a baseball against his pitch back. They talked and the kid expressed how disappointed he was that there wasn't any baseball to be played after LL was over. That caused Dad to get together with a couple of other Dads and try to put together a league. There simply wasn't enough interest. They ended up with 10 kids from the area who wanted to play. Surprise, surprise, they were 10 of the better players. One day at work the Dad mentioned to his Boss (the Dad commuted to a medium size city to work) that lack of Fall Baseball. Next thing you know the Dad is taking the team into the town to scrimmage a team his Boss knew of. By the end of the Fall they were playing a game or two most weekends against different teams in the area.
The kid made the HS Varsity as a FR. He still played with his "Fall Team" after the HS season. They traveled to a couple of tournaments in the next state over. The Team now fielded the best few players from the few surrounding High Schools. More than several of those kids went on to play College / Pro ball after being noticed at some of the bigger tournaments the Fall Team played in. Those kids still played High School...they wanted to play for their school and with their friends. The kid in question played D1 ball. Got as high as AAA before moving on after getting married and having a kid.
Would the kid(s) in question have played at the next level if they hadn't played "travel" ball? I hear people say "If you're good enough you'll get noticed." Noticed by who? What college recruiters or pro scouts routinely go out to small out of the way town / schools to check out one player? Many assume that the kid is probably considered "so good" because of the competition, or lack of, around him.
And another:
A Dad is transferred by his company. They pick up and move two states over. The kid is a pretty good ball player. He's a rising Freshman, already working with the High School Varsity staff to get ready to play the following Spring. Now he's the new kid in town. No one knows who he is.
He shows up and tries out for his new HS Team. He along with over 125 other kids show up. He runs, throws, takes a few ground balls and a few cuts. He's asked if he pitches, he says he does, and he's supposed to pitch for one of the coaches. He never does. Try outs / practice ends.
Kid doesn't make the first cut.
Note: This High School in question does not have Middle School / Junior High Ball, and does not have a FR team. JV and V only.
A local Travel Coach was helping with the tryouts at the request of one of the coaches. He notices this kid. Notices he doesn't get a look at all. He flags down the kid in the parking lot the next day before the 2nd day of tryouts. Asked the kid why he's not going to the field. Kid replies that he was cut. The Coach can't believe it. Talks the Varsity Coach into taking a look at the kid after tryouts that day. So the kid gets on the mound and throws. BTW....14 years old. 6', lanky build, Mom is tall and an ex-college VB player, Dad is over 6'2" and was a good athlete. Throws gas. Good CU, great control and a nasty breaking ball. Varsity Coach doesn't seem impressed...tells the kid to come back out tomorrow after tryouts and he'll let him throw live to a "few of his players from last year".
Next day, the "few players" are his best 5-6 returning Varsity Players. He proceeds to make them look silly.
Kid makes the JV team. Pitches some there, moves up to V and throws some. Does very well. Has two wins in post-season play. Lots of ****ed off parents giving the coach grief about the "new kid". Kid "makes" the HS Summer Team, but hardly plays. Ends up playing with the Travel Coach some that Fall..on a 16U Team. Gets playing time and does extremely well.
As a Soph, kid makes the JV. Pitches some but doesn't play much at all. Never steps foot on the V Team. Has to be talked into playing Summer ball with the Travel Coach again. Does well again. Very well.
Over the Summer break, kid decides he's going to apply for an academic scholarship at a local private school. They have a HIGH Academic standard, and also have several college level courses that are in his planned field of study for college. Says he "might play ball" but he's concentrating on school and college after that. Gets the academic ride. The school starts a baseball program that year. Kid is asked to play, does and leads the team to a post season run in it's first year. Plays Summer / Fall ball at several large showcase tournaments. Gets more than a few letters and contacts. None from the school he wants to study at, so he keeps that as his focus. Returns to the private school as a Senior...a 6'3" 200lb senior. With mid to high 80's FB and good off speed stuff.
The private HS plays in a local pre-season tournament sponsored by the High School he started at. He pitches a complete game shutout against their team. Travel coach is making calls and trying to make contacts at the school the kid intends on going to anyway (For academics) but they also happen to have a strong baseball program. Kid trys out for one of the Coaches. He's asked to come back and do it again. Kid signs to play ball and study there. Gets his degree. Gets drafted. Decides to give it a shot. Currently playing AA ball, and projects well.
Would this kid have ended up where he is if it wasn't for "Travel" baseball and that Coach?
Sure these are extreme examples...but it shows you that every situation and every person is different.
So maybe don't be so quick to discounts someone else's opinions here, as maybe, just maybe, their particular situation is much different than your own.
Not as extreme as you might think. I can show you a link to a travel team that has about 200 college and pro placements including Joey Votto (Reds), Marcel Champignie ( Ariz State? Milb) and many others. The owner is an Assoc Scout with the Pirates and holds pro tryouts. He spends most of his spare time calling and placing players with the many, many colleges he has had personal relations with. He also played MLB. You can't even play for one of his4 teams unless he sees the potential to place you. I remember a very well liked player who the one team coach put him on the roster and the owner removed him. The coach argued with the owner and his exact words were " I can't place this guy ".
If you are a serious ball player and the opportunities are there you play to the highest level possible. It is the nature of the beast.
Nick Weglarz was an unremarkable HS player. He was cut from a AAA travel team in Niagara Falls Ontario (16U). He hooked up with some great coaches in TO who had recognized his potential and he is in his 3rd year as a pro. One of the purest swings I have ever seen. He needed a lot more work than he had got from the small town travel teams he played for. My son pitched to him indoors when 15 cross checkers were there. He got a 445,000 bonus and was 17 when he signed.
If you are a serious ball player and the opportunities are there you play to the highest level possible. It is the nature of the beast.
Nick Weglarz was an unremarkable HS player. He was cut from a AAA travel team in Niagara Falls Ontario (16U). He hooked up with some great coaches in TO who had recognized his potential and he is in his 3rd year as a pro. One of the purest swings I have ever seen. He needed a lot more work than he had got from the small town travel teams he played for. My son pitched to him indoors when 15 cross checkers were there. He got a 445,000 bonus and was 17 when he signed.
This is a partial list. They don't keep the site up lately.
http://www.canadianthunderbird...ship_Placements.html
http://www.canadianthunderbird...ship_Placements.html
I think you've skewed the statement. I've always known Dacque's argument to be the preteen smaller fields versus the full size fields. That would be 12U and under versus 13U and older.quote:A couple posters have PM'd me and are wondering why Daque had pushed his view about pre 16 travel ball vs rec ball not being necessary for youth development.What is he trying to achieve?
Personally, I don't believe where a kid plays prior to playing on the 60/90 field has any bearing at all on his future (high school or beyond). What matters is learning the basics of the game properly. But until the kid can walk on the 60/90 field and prove he belongs, anything he did previous to 13U (smaller fields) and where he did it (rec or travel) is meaningless.
My son played both rec and travel from 9-12. Most of those 9-12 travel players are no longer playing in high school. At 13U we started getting selective about who was on the travel team. It wasn't about developing successful LL all-star programs anymore. All those kids are playing high school ball. But we carefully selected players from a wide area we believed had the potential for success on the 60/90 field.
Note: One of the stud 9U/10U pitchers, the son of a former AAA pitcher didn't make the high school team. So much for genes and projection being 100% accurate. It wasn't lack of passion. It was lack of ability.
quote:A couple posters have PM'd me and are wondering why Daque had pushed his view about pre 16 travel ball vs rec ball not being necessary for youth development.What is he trying to achieve?
I can imagine where this came from. Anyone having a question about my position would be well advised to ask me rather than a 3rd party. Evidently these people cannot read. RJM has my position correctly stated and I would challenge the posters to find where I stated otherwise.
I have explained my reasoning and experiences ad nauseum and others on this board have agreed. Some have not and that is just fine as well. But reality does not change.
Here a 9yo and up would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to play rec. I remember it like it was yesterday. The problem is that there is a lot of great travel ball here and a good ball player won't play rec.
Also we all know the young stud stories who were over taken. They would be over taken no matter what they played. We are talking about the select few who go to the next level and who honed their skills at an early age right through to college and pro. Forget the HS stuff. That can vary from awful to amazing. We have played some US HS teams including a state Champion team team that had 3 sign and play for LSU. The teams I saw were good but couldn't play out 17U elite team.
If you don't have exposure to good travel teams then maybe what you call rec is full of guys who could play allstar and coaches that are good. My experience tells me that isn't the norm.
Also we all know the young stud stories who were over taken. They would be over taken no matter what they played. We are talking about the select few who go to the next level and who honed their skills at an early age right through to college and pro. Forget the HS stuff. That can vary from awful to amazing. We have played some US HS teams including a state Champion team team that had 3 sign and play for LSU. The teams I saw were good but couldn't play out 17U elite team.
If you don't have exposure to good travel teams then maybe what you call rec is full of guys who could play allstar and coaches that are good. My experience tells me that isn't the norm.
You guys also talk about big diamond and small diamond. That is also garbage. Our kids here adjust to the 60-90 without any adjustment to speak of. If you can throw a ball properly and have the strength the distance makes very little difference.
Maybe we should abolish school grade 1 through 6. Also tel Tiger and the Williams sisters they wasted their time and money with all the high priced coaches before 16yo. Name any superstar athlete and you will see early development with high quality coaching.
Maybe we should abolish school grade 1 through 6. Also tel Tiger and the Williams sisters they wasted their time and money with all the high priced coaches before 16yo. Name any superstar athlete and you will see early development with high quality coaching.
Now you've skewed the conversation from typical 9U to 12U baseball players to superstar athletes. There are also plenty of kids who got the Tiger Woods and Williams sisters treatment we've never heard of because they failed at an early age. Then there's Todd Marinovich's and Jennifer Capriati's storiesquote:Name any superstar athlete
As I have said you can't make a star out of someone who doesn't have the drive and talent. We are talking about maximizing your potential.
I think you guys are giving bad advice. It is unquestionable that the sooner you learn the more likely you will succeed. So anyone asking the question if they should play good travel ball over rec would be ill advised to play rec unless they had no other choice. The talent they have will eventually dictate how far they can go.
When you have to rely on motor skills the guy who is trained properly at an early age will have the big advantage.
I think you guys are giving bad advice. It is unquestionable that the sooner you learn the more likely you will succeed. So anyone asking the question if they should play good travel ball over rec would be ill advised to play rec unless they had no other choice. The talent they have will eventually dictate how far they can go.
When you have to rely on motor skills the guy who is trained properly at an early age will have the big advantage.
Did I say typical ? I pointed out that superstars started early many at 5yo. I know lots of superstar hockey players. They start at 5 yo playing organized hockey. The competition is far above BB in terms of travel ball. They play all summer and there is often 3-4 levels of elite teams costing thousands of dollars a year at 9 +. There are 14 arenas here with double and quad pads. I can tell you that no one plays rec and advances to travel teams at the highest level.
You know, I hate to admit it, but Daque may be at least half right. I go out to tournaments with my son and I see these 8-10 year olds playing tournaments and I just wonder "why"? The parents are in the stands yelling and screaming worse than any team 12 and up. They are all yelling at the players where to throw the ball, whether to keep running the bases or to stop. It's any wonder at all that the kids can hear the coaches trying to coach. It's now to the point where they are having 8 year old coach pitch tournaments.
I really want to defend travel ball. My son started when he was 12. But I see this going on with the little kids and really think it's not necessary if I am honest with myself.
I say Daque is half right because, the age that most are talking about being a good age to start travel is 12. That is still the small field. I am also not convinced that 1 year on 60/90 prior to HS is enough to instill the value of better competition to be best prepared for HS ball. My son made varsity as a freshman as a pitcher. He was not a big freshman. He was 5'9", 155 lbs. He threw pretty hard and had a breaking ball and change up that were very effective. But the biggest thing that made him able to do it, I think was his confidence that he could face anyone and get outs. Didn't matter who he was facing. Several of the coaches approached me about the "cojones" my son had being able to get out there and pitch to these guys. We are in the largest classification in the state. In our region alone, there were 23 D-1 signees and I believe 4 or 5 kids who got drafted.
I think my kid was able to do this because he had 4-5 years of facing the best competition around. He had to actually had to pitch, not just throw strikes.
I think my point is that the answer is somewhere between starting playing travel at 7,8,9 years old and waiting till you are 14 and on the big field the year before HS. My son did just fine playing rec until he was 11 years old. I don't think he could have made varsity if he only played travel one year on the big field before HS.
I really want to defend travel ball. My son started when he was 12. But I see this going on with the little kids and really think it's not necessary if I am honest with myself.
I say Daque is half right because, the age that most are talking about being a good age to start travel is 12. That is still the small field. I am also not convinced that 1 year on 60/90 prior to HS is enough to instill the value of better competition to be best prepared for HS ball. My son made varsity as a freshman as a pitcher. He was not a big freshman. He was 5'9", 155 lbs. He threw pretty hard and had a breaking ball and change up that were very effective. But the biggest thing that made him able to do it, I think was his confidence that he could face anyone and get outs. Didn't matter who he was facing. Several of the coaches approached me about the "cojones" my son had being able to get out there and pitch to these guys. We are in the largest classification in the state. In our region alone, there were 23 D-1 signees and I believe 4 or 5 kids who got drafted.
I think my kid was able to do this because he had 4-5 years of facing the best competition around. He had to actually had to pitch, not just throw strikes.
I think my point is that the answer is somewhere between starting playing travel at 7,8,9 years old and waiting till you are 14 and on the big field the year before HS. My son did just fine playing rec until he was 11 years old. I don't think he could have made varsity if he only played travel one year on the big field before HS.
I believe if a kid starts playing travel as soon as he hits the big field he'll be fine. That would be 13U. That's three years of ball before varsity given one freshman has ever started in the history of our high school, and soph starters are rare.
I don't see where the level of competition in 9U to 12U travel made a difference to my son. He would have been just as competitive regardless of the competition. I don't see where facing a kid from 50 feet regardless of the velocity makes a difference. And following a breaking pitch from 50 feet verus 60 feet is different.
But starting with 13U travel where the pitchers in the semis and finals of tournaments were often 5"10 to 6'2" and throwing at least 80 was beneficial. By 14U he saw some mid 80's. At fifteen he played 16U and saw some upper 80's. Due to this level of competition, he never flinched at anything he's seen on high school varsity.
I agree with bball. There are a lot of insane parents of preteen travel players with serious delusions.
I don't see where the level of competition in 9U to 12U travel made a difference to my son. He would have been just as competitive regardless of the competition. I don't see where facing a kid from 50 feet regardless of the velocity makes a difference. And following a breaking pitch from 50 feet verus 60 feet is different.
But starting with 13U travel where the pitchers in the semis and finals of tournaments were often 5"10 to 6'2" and throwing at least 80 was beneficial. By 14U he saw some mid 80's. At fifteen he played 16U and saw some upper 80's. Due to this level of competition, he never flinched at anything he's seen on high school varsity.
I agree with bball. There are a lot of insane parents of preteen travel players with serious delusions.
Mine played machine pitch at 9 but had played fast pitch at 5 until he wanted to play Hard ball like one of his friends who played both. Frankly he didn't play that well until a few weeks into the season of rec. He tried out for the allstar team but was carded as a call up. After a few weeks he turned a corner and was noticed by the allstar coach. He was called and asked to play for the allstar team permanently. We refused because he started with a team and he would finish with the team No quitting. We were later told that he could do both and that his rec team could take precedence over the allstar tea. That caused some real problems with disgruntled parents but we were thrilled. His rec team had 5 coaches.And a couple were good. 1 was a pro fast ball player and 1 was a farm hand in the Boston organization Most the kids were good athletes in other sports. At that level it was fun but there was no comparison to allstars.
The players had to play different positions and that was fun. My son stood out at SS but played 3rd on the allstar team. He had amazing balance and rotation. After the championship rec game I could hear people lamenting at how could they win with a kid who could turn double plays like he did.
Now the allstar team played more games, longer into the season and some of the most enjoyable tournaments I ever attended. As many as 30 teams and they were very well behaved. Our coaches had to be level 2 under the Ontario Baseball Association and I have always credited my son's early years and later success to the great environment that that organization provided. Even when elite ball came on we still tried to support OBA.
My son playing both levels as a 9yo caused a real problem and a disgruntled parent organized the demise of the allstar coach claiming that he saw him smoke and drink near the kids. It wasn't true as the coach was an athlete still playing high level ball. The coach quit out of disgust and the new guy who was the disgruntled parent took over. He cut all the good players on the team. My son cried his eyes out when he found out. I had to talk him into playing rec the next year. It was short and excruciating. The quality had fallen severely because the better rec guys were now on the allstar team and bombing badly. I was painful to watch. The local organization fired the coach early in the season but the team was un salvageable.
The last few years the allstar and rec has gotten even worse. Elite ball has sucked most of the talent from the allstar teams and rec has started to play interlock which requires short travel . Elite ball is flourishing. My economic training tells me that the demand is creating supply. In fact the elite teams are catering to younger and younger players. I don't like to see this because their fees are so high. The allstar teams at 9-15 were inexpensive running 3-400 a season. Rec was 125.
I just don't think Daques advice is good. If you think saving a few hundred dollars is advisable go right ahead but don't be surprised when you son hits a brick wall.
The players had to play different positions and that was fun. My son stood out at SS but played 3rd on the allstar team. He had amazing balance and rotation. After the championship rec game I could hear people lamenting at how could they win with a kid who could turn double plays like he did.
Now the allstar team played more games, longer into the season and some of the most enjoyable tournaments I ever attended. As many as 30 teams and they were very well behaved. Our coaches had to be level 2 under the Ontario Baseball Association and I have always credited my son's early years and later success to the great environment that that organization provided. Even when elite ball came on we still tried to support OBA.
My son playing both levels as a 9yo caused a real problem and a disgruntled parent organized the demise of the allstar coach claiming that he saw him smoke and drink near the kids. It wasn't true as the coach was an athlete still playing high level ball. The coach quit out of disgust and the new guy who was the disgruntled parent took over. He cut all the good players on the team. My son cried his eyes out when he found out. I had to talk him into playing rec the next year. It was short and excruciating. The quality had fallen severely because the better rec guys were now on the allstar team and bombing badly. I was painful to watch. The local organization fired the coach early in the season but the team was un salvageable.
The last few years the allstar and rec has gotten even worse. Elite ball has sucked most of the talent from the allstar teams and rec has started to play interlock which requires short travel . Elite ball is flourishing. My economic training tells me that the demand is creating supply. In fact the elite teams are catering to younger and younger players. I don't like to see this because their fees are so high. The allstar teams at 9-15 were inexpensive running 3-400 a season. Rec was 125.
I just don't think Daques advice is good. If you think saving a few hundred dollars is advisable go right ahead but don't be surprised when you son hits a brick wall.
quote:I believe if a kid starts playing travel as soon as he hits the big field he'll be fine
How can you say at 13 when kids develop at different rates ? My son at 13 was very advanced. You would hold him back and watch him get bored and he would probably quit and never attended college for BB.
Now its about insane parents ?
quote:I believe if a kid starts playing travel as soon as he hits the big field he'll be fine. That would be 13U.
Around here pretty much all 13u's play 54/80 other than middle school ball - which is a whole nother story. USSSA, Triple Crown, Grand Slam all do 54/80, so technically even at that age it is not the big field yet. I still don't see a problem with playing on the small field at that age. Competition is much better. The experience is much needed going into HS.
quote:Now its about insane parents ?
It's not about them. I just think it is a lot of pressure for little kids to be under. Playing 3 or 4 games a day in a tournament environment, especially with parents like that, is very stressful. They are still just little kids, regardless of how good they are. I would worry about burn out at an early age being under that much pressure for that many years. My son is 16 and a sophmore and I still impress on him that it is still a game and you need to be having fun. He is about to the point where it should be much more serious, but even when it is a business, it still needs to be fun.
Look at the MLB guys in the dugout. They are generally having a good time with each other.
You are kidding ?
My son would be all over me if I tried to stop him back then I couldn't have cared less and only put him in FB because his sisters were in it.
He enjoyed every minute of the travel ball. He enjoyed the machine pitch until he played allstar.
What part about cried for 2 hours after being informed he was carded and only a call up for the allstar team.
Myself I never make a sound at the games and only see an occasional ballistic parent. On our teams you would be barred from attending a game or 2 until you figured it out. I have seen more ballistic parents at high level 18U games. East Cobb was one of the worst.
Our coaches certified and not just Dads.
My son would be all over me if I tried to stop him back then I couldn't have cared less and only put him in FB because his sisters were in it.
He enjoyed every minute of the travel ball. He enjoyed the machine pitch until he played allstar.
What part about cried for 2 hours after being informed he was carded and only a call up for the allstar team.
Myself I never make a sound at the games and only see an occasional ballistic parent. On our teams you would be barred from attending a game or 2 until you figured it out. I have seen more ballistic parents at high level 18U games. East Cobb was one of the worst.
Our coaches certified and not just Dads.