Travel Ball - not seeing the value for us

Yes, and no, and maybe.

it depends. With our son, who is now a freshman baseball player on a D3 team, we saved a lot of money playing travel ball on a team that was less expensive and only traveled within our state until he was 16 and then he started playing on a team that traveled far and wide.

for a position player it is extremely difficult to get enough quality at bats against good pitching, in most of the country, if you’re not playing travel ball. One thing we did with our son is had him play up as much as possible when he was younger. Legion ball, or in our case a low level fall ball league, had extremely miserable pitching, but when you are 14 years old facing 17 year olds that can give you some good experience.

What part of the country are you in?

I look back(way back) and getting a couple bucks from my parents for going to a movie was an adventure. I could never imagine asking for money to play baseball. Well you see we did that on our own stickball in the street or if we had a hardball going down and playing on the sandlot. and guess what I went on to play in high school and college and coached high school for 30 years so I dont feel cheated or anything. Ok I am done with my old person back in the day stuff. Lets move forward I definitely know that 30 years ago if my son had to go through what I read today with the "cost" he just would not have been able to do it. He played high school and college . My wife and I were too busy working 2 jobs for the ability to send my kids to college and a couple thousand to play baseball would be way down on the list and to be honest off the list. It is very sad to see what has transpired over the years.  Somehow people equate paying money somehow insures succes. But the real sad part is to play baseball you have to pay and pay a lot.

It is sad, but you also have to face reality.  I know talented kids who tried to do that in the last 5-6 years (just play Little League and then Legion ball) and none of them, literally none of them, made a college team.

In some parts of country Legion Ball is still pretty good.  So it depends.

Seems like a well thought out plan to me. As long as the kid is getting the work in he will be just fine.

I'm taking a similar approach. My kid just finished freshman year on JV at a 7A school in FL with a strong baseball program.

I've seen the type of kids that get offers this early in the game. My son and none of his freshmen teammates are those dudes.

But all of his teammates are spending over $5k hitting the circuit this summer.

I'm putting our $ towards physical training and baseball lessons. When he's got something elite to show we can talk about expensive travel ball.

I get the "oh my god" how can you pay that for baseball, but reality, if I had girls, they'd be probably doing dance or gymnastics, or softball (btw softball programs are way better than baseball here) etc. at same or more cost.  13-15yo babe ruth is non-existent.  There is no such thing as sand lot anymore, we don't even have kids in the neighborhood to go play catch with and his older brother has no desire to play catch with little bro, unless it's to get a bullpen in.  Everyone has abandoned public baseball for travel and to be honest it's crappier than little league was when I played a billion years ago.  Doesn't stop parents from thinking it means something though and little johnny is just the greatest.  Travel isn't what it was 15 years ago, when it was a few regional teams, now it's 3 teams per age group for nearly every program,  that's way too many kids to be exceptional baseball.  And certainly too many to find coaches worth anything, yet they still promote as "professional coaches", yeah I guess if you get paid 15,000 to coach for the program, that's technically professional, I guess.

Talking about getting pitches,  my son''s been walked 3 out of every 4 times he's up.  Other kids seem to get pitches, for some reason he doesn't.  At 5'3" and a 31" bat, he can't afford to go after bad pitches.  I sit behind home and I can tell you he's gotten maybe 6 pitches worth hitting in probably 30 plate appearances.  he catches one game each double header and in the field or EH the other, 4 games per weekend.  Coach bats pitcher and catcher bottom of the order regardless, so gets 2 PA's a game usually, sometimes one depending on mercy rule.  Seems to happen at least once a weekend either them or us.

At different points a prep age ball player needs different things. If you have nothing to showcase, then yes skill development, speed, and strength are things to work on. But learning to compete on the field is huge. I think in the last 5-10 years strength training and skill development started to get a lot of focus especially on the pitching side and it's been great for the game, but just doing live ABs in a cage is not the same as competing on the field for the hitter or pitcher.

Hs dad

do you know the history of Sam Fuld?
Bob

You think sports is expensive, try music.

I agree with everything you say about travel organizations.  My son is at a D3.  The travel at 13U-16U was useless for recruiting.  BUT...  three things did, I think matter.

- First, he was playing with other kids who were focused on baseball, that inspired him and made him push himself.  Wouldn't have happened if all he had was HS ball.

- Second, we knew nothing about baseball, and we learned a lot from coaches (who, admittedly, were not all very good) and especially from other parents. If you are a parent who knows baseball, maybe this doesn't matter.

- Third, the fact that he had played against high-level players (in big tournaments like PG) did seem to matter when he got to college, in the sense that he had that kind of experience and confidence from the start.  Maybe that's just me justifying all the money we spent.

There were no decent options around us other than the big organizations (no legion, just daddy-ball with really bad coaching), so I think if we had to do it again, we would.  We knew families whose kids stayed with daddy-ball until 17U and played in college, but their summer experience was kind of frustrating.

At 14, if he’s not off the charts, I’d agree.  We got more than just baseball out of those summers but they mattered little for recruiting.

You don’t showcase when you have nothing to show. Showcasing is for 16u and 17u players. There are a handful of exceptional players who are already prospects below 16u

But development is important. Playing challenging competition is important. My son played on a very competitive 13u travel team the summer after 7th grade. He played grade appropriate. He was 12u eligible with a May birthday. He was only 5’2”. He was 5’4” in 14u ball the following year. The summer after freshman year he played 16u. It was high school varsity level ball without the handful of 17u studs. He was now 5’11”. His play on the 16u team as a 14u eligible got him invited to play for top 17u teams in the region the following year.

His travel coaches taught him a lot. When he got to varsity I asked about the coaching. He told me the coaches know their stuff. But he had been taught all of it from 13u to 16u (team skipped 15u). His high school coaches and 17u coaches refined what he had learned earlier.

If the AAU ball in NH sucks maybe you need to look at stronger programs in Massachusetts. Playing horrible Babe Ruth and Legion teams in lieu of spending money is not going to prepare him for high school ball.

If you know what your expectations are - D1, D2, D3, Juco, NAIA - then choose what you want to do. There's a few of us on here who had the NH baseball experience. Mine is now 7+ years ago in southern NH - it's all about location as in the Nash/Manch/Conc or Ports/Exeter/Roch areas.. AAU was awful, Legion an acceptable alternative, but in no way comparable to what PG could provide. The closest "good" travel program like that was 1.5 hrs drive without traffic. I knew my boys weren't D1 material, so focus was D3 or perhaps D2. We put our $$'s on education (Bishop Guertin) and that left little to even think about travel baseball. We did pay for some focused training, a couple show cases, trips to specific schools - it "paid" off at an academic D3 for one and a D2 in NC for the other. If 9and7dad is still reading, one of his boys got the SEC experience and he was from a smaller NH town west of Concord. Long story short, very hard to realistically make it out of NH to somewhere or be noticed. It's possible - hit the books, get bigger, faster, stronger. Don't get complacent because puberty will even out things a bit if you're not working hard. Consider your positional competition - there's a lot of P, C, SS who only make it so far because they won't consider anything else. You *have* to be *that* good and do not under estimate the value of good grades.

You don't have to pay $3-4,000 for a travel ball experience.  If you are not college prospect, then play on a local team and get better.  No reason to play on big time team until you and your teammates have something to show.  I've seen too many not big time teams show up at big time events because that is where the scouts are.  They are not watching the teams that are not big time and the big time teams are drubbing the mediocre teams and no one is there to watch.  There are very cheap travel options to just get better and work on skills.

Id say I have similar thoughts to the OP.  Im tens of thousands in the travel rabbit hole w 2 boys.  2023 position player verballed at a upper level academic D2 simply through video and performance at school specific camp.  His grades sealed the deal on the offer.  They knew he d fit through ED admissions.  Nothing the travel program did helped him.  They didnt even talk to his travel coach.  They just asked some local high school coaches they knew. 

2025 is LHP who I believe could easily do the same route but get to a upper level D1. 

But I still pay for travel.  Dont ask me why other than we dont have legion or other options.  That and my goal is to keep them so busy they stay out of trouble.

Check that.  Too simple.  2023 had no other option to see meaningful at bats.  Its a sad thought.  A lot of adults are making livings off youth sports nowadays

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

But I still pay for travel.  Dont ask me why other than we dont have legion or other options.  That and my goal is to keep them so busy they stay out of trouble.

"Don't ask me why other than that we don't have Legion" is the same as video killing the radio star....

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Id say I have similar thoughts to the OP.  Im tens of thousands in the travel rabbit hole w 2 boys.  2023 position player verballed at a upper level academic D2 simply through video and performance at school specific camp.  His grades sealed the deal on the offer.  They knew he d fit through ED admissions.  Nothing the travel program did helped him.  They didnt even talk to his travel coach.  They just asked some local high school coaches they knew.

2025 is LHP who I believe could easily do the same route but get to a upper level D1.

But I still pay for travel.  Dont ask me why other than we dont have legion or other options.  That and my goal is to keep them so busy they stay out of trouble.

I'm not sure you are right on the 2025 LHP.  I don't think video alone will get him to upper level D1 without facing good competition unless he is 92+ with validated velo.  Video may work for D2 HA but not upper level D1, probably not mid-major D1 unless velo is crazy good.  If he is mediocre, they will want to see him pitch against tough competition.  Unless your definition of upper level D1 is different from mine.  I see a lot of 92-94 mph guys get eaten alive in SEC, even LHP's.  You have to pitch to be able to play in upper level D1, P5.

A lot of this could be easily fixed.

For starters I think the baseball specific weight training is wild. Lifting heavy weight at that age is only going to stunt his growth. 5'3 110. Let him hit puberty and then start developing some muscles. For now it should all be body weight stuff, pushups, situps, squats. Getting him on a bench press at 14 is not going to make him a better baseball player. I'd be looking into nutrition and getting him on a caloric surplus before I did anything. Any "trainer" willing to do baseball specific weight training with a middle schooler is a crook and a goon.

From 6th-8th we played only played in tournaments within a 3 hour drive. Some were around the corner, some were a hotel stays a few states away and they were always fun. Competition was good, was not overly expensive. I understand you're in an area which makes this tougher but I would really look for programs where they aren't going crazy with the travel and the fees. Once he gets to HS you can reassess.

HS is where things changed. For the more advanced and developed (college prospects), they went to GA, Ft. Myers, etc. The others did the 3 hour drive thing for another year.

You're going to be hard pressed to find something that won't run you a few thousand each year. Summer should be about $1k-1500 for local tournaments and practices. If he's playing fall another $800-1200.

It's all the extras that are killing you. Axe the private lessons or cut back. None of mine did private lessons until HS and when they did it was only in the offseason once/twice a week ramping up for the HS season with some lessons mixed in during the season to fine tune some things. It was also only because they refused to listen to me after a certain age.

Middle School is really the development stage. He should probably be getting his best coaching now. In HS it's pretty much up to his school to build him up because once travel ball comes around it's about recruiting and reps, not practices and drills.

Lifting weights at any age does not stunt growth. The earlier someone can learn the basic movements like hip hinge, etc, the better.

@PABaseball posted:

A lot of this could be easily fixed.

For starters I think the baseball specific weight training is wild. Lifting heavy weight at that age is only going to stunt his growth. 5'3 110. Let him hit puberty and then start developing some muscles. For now it should all be body weight stuff, pushups, situps, squats. Getting him on a bench press at 14 is not going to make him a better baseball player. I'd be looking into nutrition and getting him on a caloric surplus before I did anything. Any "trainer" willing to do baseball specific weight training with a middle schooler is a crook and a goon.

From 6th-8th we played only played in tournaments within a 3 hour drive. Some were around the corner, some were a hotel stays a few states away and they were always fun. Competition was good, was not overly expensive. I understand you're in an area which makes this tougher but I would really look for programs where they aren't going crazy with the travel and the fees. Once he gets to HS you can reassess.

HS is where things changed. For the more advanced and developed (college prospects), they went to GA, Ft. Myers, etc. The others did the 3 hour drive thing for another year.

You're going to be hard pressed to find something that won't run you a few thousand each year. Summer should be about $1k-1500 for local tournaments and practices. If he's playing fall another $800-1200.

It's all the extras that are killing you. Axe the private lessons or cut back. None of mine did private lessons until HS and when they did it was only in the offseason once/twice a week ramping up for the HS season with some lessons mixed in during the season to fine tune some things. It was also only because they refused to listen to me after a certain age.

Middle School is really the development stage. He should probably be getting his best coaching now. In HS it's pretty much up to his school to build him up because once travel ball comes around it's about recruiting and reps, not practices and drills.

I have to disagree with the bolded section.  I don't recall ever seeing any evidence to support the statement that lifting weights will stunt growth, just assumptions.  I think weight training for middle school athletes (and really middle schoolers in general given the sedentary lifestyle that many of the live) is great, I've seen the transformation in athleticism and body control that it can give young athletes (students of mine that play other sports).   

I don't know that at the middle school age range a baseball specific strength program is necessary but a general strength program done correctly is almost always going to help them become a better baseball player (or athlete, or hopefully help lead them on a path to a healthier lifestyle in the future).

Quick feet, can you improve? Do you know the track coach? DO YOU HAVE A EYE SPECIALIST in your area. Ask for eye exam and recommendations to improve his tracking of the pitch.

What is the "role of a hitter"?  TO SEE THE BALL!!!!

Bob

Idk, it’s not just about baseball.  It’s about meeting new friends,  it’s about hanging out at the pool with your buddies.  Walking to the gas station with your buddies at night to buy a candy bar when your 13.  It’s about growing up.  I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

@Dadof3 posted:

Idk, it’s not just about baseball.  It’s about meeting new friends,  it’s about hanging out at the pool with your buddies.  Walking to the gas station with your buddies at night to buy a candy bar when your 13.  It’s about growing up.  I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

That I'd agree with.  We cut them loose on multiple 4-7day team trips each year and it is like going off to camp for them.  They come back with funny stories and clearly grow up some each time. 

@HSDad22, try your plan for a year and see how it goes. If he truly develops in all areas and has fun, mission accomplished!

To be fair, the senior partner (wife) and I would have preferred vacations together rather than multiple trips across God's country for baseball, many times it was just me or her as we also have a second kid who played travel sports. I agree with what others have stated, my knucklehead enjoyed the hang outs and bonding at the hotel with his team mates. I definitely enjoyed sharing adult sodas with the parents. Its only been 10 months and I am starting to miss the long drives with oldest. I figure the better exotic vacations with the missus can be taken when the kids are off to college. 

@gamecock303 posted:

I have to disagree with the bolded section.  I don't recall ever seeing any evidence to support the statement that lifting weights will stunt growth, just assumptions.  I think weight training for middle school athletes (and really middle schoolers in general given the sedentary lifestyle that many of the live) is great, I've seen the transformation in athleticism and body control that it can give young athletes (students of mine that play other sports).   

I don't know that at the middle school age range a baseball specific strength program is necessary but a general strength program done correctly is almost always going to help them become a better baseball player (or athlete, or hopefully help lead them on a path to a healthier lifestyle in the future).

I've seen too many 7th and 8th graders lifting hard with trainers at the gym who never ended up getting past 5'8 but they're shredded up. There may not be hard evidence, but every single middle schooler I've seen on a weight training program ended up being the jacked short guy. Every single one of them. I'm not taking pushups, situps, conditioning type workouts. I'm talking bench, squat, lunges, deadlift.

Sure it's anecdotal, but it's not nothing.

Training and competition are not the same.

The training you can get in may ways, on small scale and have it done very well. The competition is much more complex. I feel like it is more difficult to make the adjustment to the college game if you haven't played a higher level travel season. I don't think it needs to be national every week but the local rec leagues and legion seasons are not really an indicator of the college competition to come.

As a couple of recent posts stated, fun needs to be a part of the plan. I'd try to find a way to get some games in over the summer. At that age I'd focus the training on developing overall athleticism more than baseball specific weight lifting.

@3and2Fastball posted:

for a position player it is extremely difficult to get enough quality at bats against good pitching, in most of the country, if you’re not playing travel ball.

I think that the above is a really important point.  Even though my son grew up around plenty of D1 pitchers, (and some now pro), he almost never faced them in local travel or high school games.  These kids only pitched in the high profile or high leverage games.  So national travel tournaments is where he got the experience of facing 90+ and quality breaking stuff. 

I always did the research to know what was in the horizon for each kid leading into next year. I also have a daughter five years older than my son who played travel softball.

When my son was in LL in 6th grade with a year of eligibility remaining I was told no way, no how the Jr Legion coach would take him next year. Then, when the kids were thirteen the JR Legion coach believed they practice hard and watch games. He called it paying your dues. I decided no way, no how was my son going to enter high school ball coming off LL and sitting on a Jr Legion bench over two years.

I played college ball. I coached Babe Ruth ball out of college. I started my own 13u tournament travel team. During a LL all star rain delay I chatted with a dad coach from another league. He was all in on the travel team idea. He had played college and pro. I found two more dad coaches with college and/or pro experience with talented kids. Then I added nine more of the most talented kids from our LL all star district. I was looking for potential high school players to train, not the biggest kids in the moment. I took the athletic 5’2” kid with the 6’2” dad over the 5’8” kid with the 5’6” dad. The team lasted three years. They played 16u when the kids were 15yo freshmen. Five were asked to play for the most elite 17u teams in the area and went on to D1. All but one went on to college ball at some level. He could have. He chose college basketball.

We didn’t play fall ball after 7th and 8th grade. The cost was about $600 per player. Fall ball added five more tournaments and $300. All ten summer tournaments were within commuting range except two. A third depended on how early someone wanted to get up and drive if the 8am game. As coaches, the four of us knew the game. We weren’t in it for money. We were in it for the love of the game.

During a break between games during the 13u season I was watching a 14u travel game chatting with one of the dads. He thought travel was too expensive. He didn’t know baseball to coach it. He told a couple of former college baseball dads if they would do the coaching (their kids were on the team) he would do all the administrative work (essentially the team GM).

There are always ways to get around the cost if you’re motivated. It’s more challenging to be motivated. It takes little effort to complain.

@PABaseball posted:

I've seen too many 7th and 8th graders lifting hard with trainers at the gym who never ended up getting past 5'8 but they're shredded up. There may not be hard evidence, but every single middle schooler I've seen on a weight training program ended up being the jacked short guy. Every single one of them. I'm not taking pushups, situps, conditioning type workouts. I'm talking bench, squat, lunges, deadlift.

Sure it's anecdotal, but it's not nothing.

Of course there are limits to what is healthy at a young age, but weightlifting does not stunt your growth. You're projecting conclusions onto reality that don't make sense. A tall, very skinny 8th grader is not yet biologically able to get huge in the gym. A shorter, stockier kid is more biologically able to bulk up at a younger age, and probably feels the need to do so to compensate for being shorter. Neither of those facts means that weightlifting stunted the shorter kid's growth, or that the 6 foot 3 kid would have been 5 foot 9 if he lifted weights. It's just an outdated myth.

"Travel Ball - not seeing the value for us"

After reading most of this thread, the honest answer I came to is "you may be right". It may not have any value at all, especially through a monetary lens and in your situation. But, I guess it really just depends on what your kid really wants to do with his time.

However, I will say from experience that it's hard to simulate live pitching and split second reads. I've seen quite a few gym monsters/cage warriors fail badly when the pressure gets real. You know, the whole "steel sharpens steel" thing.   jm2c....

imo seeing good/great pitching as early/often as possible is key.  It's the one thing I'd have done different with my son....from 9-12 he played USSSA tournaments mostly against AA teams until he was 12, then we took our AA teams and competed with AAA and majors teams as often as we could.  We didnt have the pitching to be a majors team at 12u, but we competed with them, lost mostly, won some and were competetive in most.

I don't know your area of the country.  In the Atlanta area, you have several levels and types of travel.  Academy teams are "known for being known" that do zero development, Academy teams known for development, local teams that are cheaper but a little iffy on what you are going to get.  You don't have to pay $3K to get reps.

At 13u, my older son's team fell apart right before the season.  He played pick up ball until we found a great team half way through the season.  Some teams charged us $25 for the weekend, most were free.  There were always teams that would take an extremely fast outfielder.

Your son is a catcher.  About a 1/3 of travel teams need a spare catcher.  If you want reps on the field, you can find them.  Georgia has a website for teams looking for players, most are for a specific weekend/tournament.

Prepubescent weight training trains coordination and some strength.  Not enough testosterone to get big and strong.  I wouldn't pay for a strength trainer until his body can develop from the training.  Just my opinion. Focus should be on faster and more coordinated than strength.

HSDad22,

Honestly, if you aren't seeing the value in where you're spending your money then try a different approach.   This isn't Russia.   You seem like an organized parent who is not satisfied with the current situation, and not seeing the benefits.  You can take a hands on approach with his training or baseball skills development or hire someone to do it or take a blended approach.   

My two cents....Sit down with your son and map out a different approach that includes value in the solution.   In my experience, there were times where I had to sit down with each son and ask some very pointed questions about their baseball future.  My oldest son never waivered on his goals and approach.   My two younger sons looked at baseball differently than their older brother, and we tweaked their approach with travel, high school or Legion as well as training methods.

As always, JMO.

Let me help.  According to his page, he is from New Hampshire.  Long ways from Ga and totally different setup for travel ball.  I can only imagine the struggles with travel ball up there.  Probably if he wants to play it includes a lot of travel for practices and tournaments.  My insight would not be useful at all because I have always been in the south and midwest.  Teams and tournaments are a dime a dozen.

I have as all little familiarity with travel ball in the area. When in Maine I’ve biked by games, stopped, watched and chatted with parents.

It’s mostly league ball in northern New England. The league is the New England AAU League. There is a New Hampshire/Maine Division. Most of the games are doubleheaders on weekends. For example the Maine Lightning website says travel is typically not more than two hours one way to games.

There are also baseball tournaments in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Some of them are PG/WWBA.

When my son played 17u we traveled to Massachusetts from the Mid Atlantic area for a major 17u team event with all the major college programs in attendance.

When my son was playing travel ball a very talented team from the New England Baseball Complex (Massachusetts) would show up at tournaments in the Mid Atlantic area.

since he's pre puberty, i'd suggest looking into pilates or yoga instead of weights.  I don't think the weights are harmful at that age but i also don't think the benefit is as great since he doesn't have that hormone superpower yet. 

The player has to develop his individual skills.  Your plan should allow that to happen.  I'm assuming the lessons component is reinforced.  i.e. hitting lessons once a week that are not reinforced with supporting drills and BP are a waste of money.  The player has to do the work of reinforcing techniques.  Same for other aspects of individual improvement.  Once he is a top player at whatever level of competition he is playing you need to move him up to face better and play with better players.  If at 16 or so he seems to have the ability to play in college (does he stand out when he plays?) then you will need a plan to get him in the network of schools.  Many times that is from referrals of trusted travel  or high school coaches.  College coaches just don't have the time to see players often enough to know they are a fit.  Not a lot of time for discovery at camps or tournaments.  Now if you can hit a ball  400 ft or throw 90 plus coaches can find him easily.  My son played for a high school coach that had contacts so he was able to play on a very economical travel team and have a great time with the team.  Coach was a former Pro whose son was on the team and everyone played and the focus was on players playing and winning.  The team was never going to be a powerhouse but two players are playing pro ball and several others played in college at various levels.  It worked for us well since my son also played soccer and he had the flexibility to balance both sports.  Had he played on an elite team he would have been locked into baseball only which was not his desire.  Ultimately, he has to develop his individual skills.  If he is dominating in the levels you propose then he will not face the challenges to grow. 

The process is definitely good and spending time on training, development etc will certainly improve a player more.

However you also have to consider the mental side and especially for hitters it helps to regularly face good pitching to stay sharp.

If a player just trains and then plays at a low level he might get bored and think he already is the king because he destroys bad pitching which could his work ethic negatively.

An appropriate level of competition is important to keep the mind right, if the level is too good (say the player hits 0.180) then he might get crushed mentally and of the level is too easy (let's say he hits 0.500) then the player might get bored and start slacking.