Tufts University

Well, it is 3 and a half years later and my son was just cut this morning after a career of playing in 7 JV games (where he batted .600 with a 1.500 slugging %) and getting 1 at-bat for the big squad (flyout to deep center) and 2 innings in the outfield (no balls hit to him) last year.  My advice to anyone who will listen is to avoid Tufts like the plague.  PM me for the details, but you just can't make up how warped this program is. 

HV ... You might want to delete your post, calm down and turn your post into a valuable lessons learned about college ball post. For every negative point you can make about Tufts I can dig up a player who swears by the program and Coach Casey.

Coach Casey is a little rough around the edges. A Dorchester guy is an odd fit for a preppy school like Tufts. He played at Tufts. His successses speak for themselves.

i first witnessed what I called questionable behavior by coach Casey watching Tufts play the Trinity CT team that won it all. He had to apologize to Trinity for his behavior. Since then I've talked with Tufts players. A friend's son recently played for them. Almost all the players swear by Casey. The term the players and parents use is, "He has the player's backs." 

Several years ago I was watching the NESCAC tournament at Tufts. With a game running late I got a chance to chat with a couple of Tufts players against the fence while they were waiting to take the field. One was a kid was a senior. He started freshman year. He lost his job and sat the bench the next three years. He said he loved Casey and would go to war for him. Not many benched players have this kind of devotion to a coach. 

I realize Coach Casey isn't everyone's favorite flavor of coach. Most of the opposition detests him. But to rip on the program the way you have is absurd. The counter argument would be his very long successful track record..

I don't have a connection to Tufts. My son played elsewhere. I tended to watch BC/ACC games when I didn't travel to see my son play. If BC was out of town I sometimes watched Tufts play. It was a good bike ride from the beach.

Look on the bright side. Your son will walk away with a degree from Tufts. It puts him in a great position applying for jobs or grad school..

Sorry to hear that HV. Tough news to get on opening day, and with only 30 guys listed on the roster. I hope his academic experience is going better than the baseball side.

I'd say that HVBASEBALLDAD provided his (very) candid input about a long-term negative experience. And I'd say that folks interested in Tufts would want to see that thread as one perspective to consider (and perhaps discount or ignore) when evaluating Tufts. I know HSBW tries to be positive and give the benefit of the doubt, but it should not strive to be Pollyanna-land either. My two cents.

RJM,

You have no clue.

Very sorry to hear HV.  Best of luck to your son.  As others have mentioned, it's a great school and I hope his academic experience has been a good one.

I agree with Batty67 that a lot of what makes this a valuable forum is getting candid views of what experiences players/parents have had with coaches and schools.  A lot of these threads like HV's original post end and then nobody ever gets to see how the story played out.  We are just as interested in learning about those that end badly as those that end well.  Discovering if they would do anything differently that might help guide the rest of families going through this process.  Of course every kid and every situation is different, but let the readers decide if they want to take the risk.

Thanks HV for updating your original post and best wishes to you and your son in moving past the baseball phase into hopefully a successful career made better from his learning experience at Tufts.

One lesson I think players and parents can take from this story, as well as that of another member, SluggerDad, is that one should be very wary of any D3 school with a JV baseball program.  I'd rather see my kid sink or swim on V than get strung along on JV.

Anyway like the others say, at least he's getting a Tufts degree and I hope the academic part of his experience has been better.

HVBaseballDad,

I'm also very disappointed to hear about your son's Tufts experience.  Sometimes it is very difficult to explain to people outside a program what it is really like, and difficult for those outside the program to understand what really goes on.  Been there.  At least a thousand times (over 4 years) I've said to myself or my wife (when she doesn't have her earplugs in) ...."what the f*ck is Coach X thinking now" while watching a college baseball game.   I've heard many knowledgeable parents say it under their breath as well.  I've come to the conclusion the Peter principle is alive and well in college baseball and many of them can read a radar gun and a stopwatch, but many are not good at evaluating talent or providing the right or appropriate opportunities.   Those coaches that are experienced and are good at evaluating talent wind up at top baseball schools in top baseball conferences.

I feel your frustration, however there isn't much you can do except to warn people that it could be a future problem.  My hope is that your son gets a great education from a great school and parlays that into his professional career. 

All of this is just my opinion.  Best of luck!

A few thoughts:

1.  Is it OK to post highly critical comments ("warped") about a specific college program on this forum?

I don't know.

2.  I'd expect college coaches would conform to a bell curve:  a minority aren't very competent, another minority are remarkably good, and the majority falls somewhere in the middle.  (Call me Captain Obvious.)

3.  To some degree, all head coaches have a bulls-eye on their back  (I can't remember who said, "Keep the bench players who hate you away from the  bench players who are undecided.") 

HVbaseballDAD posted:

RJM,

You have no clue.

You son had a bad experience. It doesn't mean Tufts is a bad place to play. I know too many kids who would say otherwise. I realize Casey *** isn't everyone's cup of tea. But ripping on an incredibly successful coach doesn't sell. 

*** I thought he was a horse's behind the first game I saw him coach. It might have been his lowest moment. He had to apologize to the player, coach and college president of the other school. So I asked questions. I found out most players respect him. I had parents tell me they respect him. 

Backstop22 posted:

I agree with Batty67 that a lot of what makes this a valuable forum is getting candid views of what experiences players/parents have had with coaches and schools.  A lot of these threads like HV's original post end and then nobody ever gets to see how the story played out.  We are just as interested in learning about those that end badly as those that end well.  Discovering if they would do anything differently that might help guide the rest of families going through this process.  Of course every kid and every situation is different, but let the readers decide if they want to take the risk.

Thanks HV for updating your original post and best wishes to you and your son in moving past the baseball phase into hopefully a successful career made better from his learning experience at Tufts.

It would be valuable to detail his son's experience. Just ripping on the program without information is not valuable. I'll bet every program in the country has been ripped by some dad. All he's trying to do is get payback on the baseball program. It won't work. There are too many players who want to play there. Even if HV discourages a player Tufts will find another just like him. 

This could have been a valuable main thread leaving out the school's name and providing details. Then he could have done PM's with interested parties. Posting Tufts baseball sucks isn't valuable. I guarantee you there are plenty of readers rolling their eyes like I am. 

I'm not trying to be difficult with HV. It's a shame his son's baseball experience didn't work out. But the way HV has handled it sucks. He will probably realize it in a day or two. 

I also appreciate the candor and the "closure" of the story of what happened.  Many times people leave this forum once their kid makes it to college, pros or of course stops playing, and it is good to hear how things went for someone, or did not in this case.  

HV, I am sorry to hear about your son's experience. While I equally appreciate the support for this particular coach from others, it is second and third and further hand...whereas your experience is first hand (or your son's is at least).  

It might be useful to be a bit more constructive about some of the negative lessons or warning signs, or promises made to your son.  Four years ago they were aggressively recruiting him.  Clearly Tufts was an academic fit - so what happened?  Did they over recruit?  Did Coach Casey play favorites (despite their performance)? I mean, the overall record does not mean they could have not been even better had other guys played.  Our HS coach insists on playing certain kids, despite how they perform in games, and it can go under the radar screen if we win anyway.

Does the coaching staff use certain metrics that kept your son from getting playing time?  Was there something your son did that put him on the "negative" list (ie take an afternoon lab, not play over the summer, junior semester abroad, etc.)?  Clearly as an OF this was not about pitching velocity so I'm not even going to go there.  Was your son healthy all 4 years?  

I am sure this is painful for him, you and your family.  My son had some initial discussions with Tufts (including Casey's son who is now RC), and they told him "they are on a good position and can afford to be picky about who they recruit."  I have to add my son did not like the campus at all and scratched it from his list pretty early on as he felt it was in suburbia and he preferred to be in the city, despite the fact it is only a few T stops away! 

Twoboys,

I will gladly relay specifics to anyone in a Private Message.

RJM,

I hope you enjoy the view from your high horse because you have no clue what goes on down on the ground at Tufts. 

HVbaseballDAD posted:

Twoboys,

I will gladly relay specifics to anyone in a Private Message.

RJM,

I hope you enjoy the view from your high horse because you have no clue what goes on down on the ground at Tufts. 

I'm not here to get in a pissing match with you. It's too bad baseball didn't work out for your kid. I disagree based on having known Tufts players and parents. I disagree with how you've handled the situation. But congratulations! You're the one millionth college parent to rip a coach because it didn't work out for their kid. Most don't go to a sports board to do it. You will strut around proud you discouraged a prospect from playing for Tufts. But the Tufts program and Casey will go on and on. 

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

old_school posted:

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

 

Yeah, go figure ...

Tufts University head coach John Casey, now in his 34th season, is one of the most respected leaders in collegiate baseball.

Coach Casey served as President of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) for 2016. A member of the ABCA's leadership team for several years, he ascended to the Presidency after serving as a Vice President for four years. He is a member of the ABCA Board of Directors.

On the field, Coach Casey's Jumbos earned one of their most successful seasons in 2016. Tufts advanced further than any New England team in the NCAA Regionals, reaching the championship round before falling to eventual national runner-up Keystone College. Tufts won the 2016 New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) Championship and their 35-8 final record was the most wins for a season in program history.

Since 2010, Tufts has earned four NCAA berths and won three NESCAC titles under Coach Casey. The Jumbos won back-to-back conference crowns and earned #1 seeds at the 2010 and 2011 NCAA New England Regional Tournaments. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 2014. The program has received six national berths and won four conference titles during Coach Casey’s tenure overall. Tufts captured its eighth NESCAC East Division pennant last spring and hosted the conference championship.

The 2014 Jumbos presented Coach Casey with the 600th victory of his career, a 5-1 win at Bowdoin on April 27 of that season. He was the 43rd coach in NCAA Div. III Baseball history to reach the 600 wins milestone and the seventh among New England Division III mentors. A 1980 Tufts graduate, Casey has directed the Jumbos for 33 seasons at his alma mater and amassed a 669-385-4 record. He is 17th among active coaches and 36th all-time for Division III coaching victories.

Casey's teams have featured five players who signed professionally and several All-Americans. Randy Newsom, a 2004 Tufts graduate, signed with the Boston Red Sox. He was traded to Cleveland as part of a deal for Coco Crisp, and he advanced to the Indians’ Triple A affiliate in Buffalo. Pitcher Jeff Taglienti and outfielder Dan Callahan are also Jumbos coached by Casey who were drafted by Major League organizations. Last spring, pitcher Speros Varinos was honored as an All-American and Northeast Pitcher of the Year by D3baseball.com.

Tufts players have also been recognized for their academic achievement and commitment to community service during Casey’s tenure. Catcher Bryan Egan, a 2015 graduate, and shortstop Scott Staniewicz, a 2013 graduate, were named to the Capital One Academic All-America® Division III Baseball Teams. The team holds an annual 100 inning charity game supporting Homes for Our Troops among its many community service activities.

In November 1999, Coach Casey was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Boston Park League, the oldest amateur baseball league in the country. In 2000, the New England Intercollegiate Baseball Association (NEIBA) presented him the Jack Butterfield Award, its most prestigious honor. He received the Andy Baylock Distinguished Service Award from the NEIBA in 2005. Casey was promoted to Assistant Athletics Director at Tufts in 2001.

As an undergraduate, he helped pitch the Jumbos to consecutive ECAC Division II-III Tournament appearances. Also a tight end on 1979’s undefeated football team, he returned to Tufts a year later as a baseball and football assistant. He replaced Lee Sargent as head baseball coach in 1984. The program has recorded 25 winning seasons during his tenure.

Several former players and assistant coaches under Casey are now successful coaches at the college or high school level. Paul Svagdis, a 1993 graduate, guided Azusa Pacific University to two straight NAIA College World Series berths recently. Jamie Pinzino, a 1997 Tufts graduate, is the associated head coach at Virginia Tech. Former assistant coach Jason Tower is now the head coach at Roger Williams.

RJM posted:

old_school posted:

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

 

Yeah, go figure ...

Tufts University head coach John Casey, now in his 34th season, is one of the most respected leaders in collegiate baseball.

Coach Casey served as President of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) for 2016. A member of the ABCA's leadership team for several years, he ascended to the Presidency after serving as a Vice President for four years. He is a member of the ABCA Board of Directors.

On the field, Coach Casey's Jumbos earned one of their most successful seasons in 2016. Tufts advanced further than any New England team in the NCAA Regionals, reaching the championship round before falling to eventual national runner-up Keystone College. Tufts won the 2016 New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) Championship and their 35-8 final record was the most wins for a season in program history.

Since 2010, Tufts has earned four NCAA berths and won three NESCAC titles under Coach Casey. The Jumbos won back-to-back conference crowns and earned #1 seeds at the 2010 and 2011 NCAA New England Regional Tournaments. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 2014. The program has received six national berths and won four conference titles during Coach Casey’s tenure overall. Tufts captured its eighth NESCAC East Division pennant last spring and hosted the conference championship.

The 2014 Jumbos presented Coach Casey with the 600th victory of his career, a 5-1 win at Bowdoin on April 27 of that season. He was the 43rd coach in NCAA Div. III Baseball history to reach the 600 wins milestone and the seventh among New England Division III mentors. A 1980 Tufts graduate, Casey has directed the Jumbos for 33 seasons at his alma mater and amassed a 669-385-4 record. He is 17th among active coaches and 36th all-time for Division III coaching victories.

Casey's teams have featured five players who signed professionally and several All-Americans. Randy Newsom, a 2004 Tufts graduate, signed with the Boston Red Sox. He was traded to Cleveland as part of a deal for Coco Crisp, and he advanced to the Indians’ Triple A affiliate in Buffalo. Pitcher Jeff Taglienti and outfielder Dan Callahan are also Jumbos coached by Casey who were drafted by Major League organizations. Last spring, pitcher Speros Varinos was honored as an All-American and Northeast Pitcher of the Year by D3baseball.com.

Tufts players have also been recognized for their academic achievement and commitment to community service during Casey’s tenure. Catcher Bryan Egan, a 2015 graduate, and shortstop Scott Staniewicz, a 2013 graduate, were named to the Capital One Academic All-America® Division III Baseball Teams. The team holds an annual 100 inning charity game supporting Homes for Our Troops among its many community service activities.

In November 1999, Coach Casey was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Boston Park League, the oldest amateur baseball league in the country. In 2000, the New England Intercollegiate Baseball Association (NEIBA) presented him the Jack Butterfield Award, its most prestigious honor. He received the Andy Baylock Distinguished Service Award from the NEIBA in 2005. Casey was promoted to Assistant Athletics Director at Tufts in 2001.

As an undergraduate, he helped pitch the Jumbos to consecutive ECAC Division II-III Tournament appearances. Also a tight end on 1979’s undefeated football team, he returned to Tufts a year later as a baseball and football assistant. He replaced Lee Sargent as head baseball coach in 1984. The program has recorded 25 winning seasons during his tenure.

Several former players and assistant coaches under Casey are now successful coaches at the college or high school level. Paul Svagdis, a 1993 graduate, guided Azusa Pacific University to two straight NAIA College World Series berths recently. Jamie Pinzino, a 1997 Tufts graduate, is the associated head coach at Virginia Tech. Former assistant coach Jason Tower is now the head coach at Roger Williams.

congrats you cut and pate well!!

 I didn't say a negative thing about tufts, I said they were sacred...thanks for immediately lending accuracy to my thoughts and comment.

RJM posted:

HVbaseballDAD posted:

Twoboys,

I will gladly relay specifics to anyone in a Private Message.

RJM,

I hope you enjoy the view from your high horse because you have no clue what goes on down on the ground at Tufts. 

I'm not here to get in a pissing match with you. It's too bad baseball didn't work out for your kid. I disagree based on having known Tufts players and parents. I disagree with how you've handled the situation. But congratulations! You're the one millionth college parent to rip a coach because it didn't work out for their kid. Most don't go to a sports board to do it. You will strut around proud you discouraged a prospect from playing for Tufts. But the Tufts program and Casey will go on and on. 

I am not seeking any urine-soaked outcomes either RJM, and I most definitely do NOT have a horse in this race, but its pretty disingenuous to say you are not looking to escalate this disagreement and then...you do. A lot. 

Batty67 posted:

RJM posted:

HVbaseballDAD posted:

Twoboys,

I will gladly relay specifics to anyone in a Private Message.

RJM,

I hope you enjoy the view from your high horse because you have no clue what goes on down on the ground at Tufts. 

I'm not here to get in a pissing match with you. It's too bad baseball didn't work out for your kid. I disagree based on having known Tufts players and parents. I disagree with how you've handled the situation. But congratulations! You're the one millionth college parent to rip a coach because it didn't work out for their kid. Most don't go to a sports board to do it. You will strut around proud you discouraged a prospect from playing for Tufts. But the Tufts program and Casey will go on and on. 

I am not seeking any urine-soaked outcomes either RJM, and I most definitely do NOT have a horse in this race, but its pretty disingenuous to say you are not looking to escalate this disagreement and then...you do. A lot. 

the same who early week thought is was silly for D3 signings or commitment to be celebrated because they aren't getting anything...maybe it is ok for Tufts kids and the NESCAC in general but not other lowly D3 kids.

Batty67 posted:

RJM posted:

HVbaseballDAD posted:

Twoboys,

I will gladly relay specifics to anyone in a Private Message.

RJM,

I hope you enjoy the view from your high horse because you have no clue what goes on down on the ground at Tufts. 

I'm not here to get in a pissing match with you. It's too bad baseball didn't work out for your kid. I disagree based on having known Tufts players and parents. I disagree with how you've handled the situation. But congratulations! You're the one millionth college parent to rip a coach because it didn't work out for their kid. Most don't go to a sports board to do it. You will strut around proud you discouraged a prospect from playing for Tufts. But the Tufts program and Casey will go on and on. 

I am not seeking any urine-soaked outcomes either RJM, and I most definitely do NOT have a horse in this race, but its pretty disingenuous to say you are not looking to escalate this disagreement and then...you do. A lot. 

I'm hoping he calms down. I wish it had been a better experience for his kid But I believe the way he went about it is really wrong. As you can see there is another poster trying real hard to escalate a confrontation. 

I'm not attempting to defend Tufts due to a connection. Neither my kids or I played there. I respect the program for its success. I've known a few players dads. I bike to a couple of doubleheaders a year when there isn't an ACC game to watch. 

There has always been an unspoken (sometimes spoken) rule that this site is not the place to bash specific schools (any school), players, etc.  And the reasons are honorable and very valid.  There has also been discussion in various threads about how it could be beneficial for those going thru the recruiting process to know specific red flags about a particular school.  It is a bit of a catch 22.

Maybe we can come up with an appropriate way to address/provide this type of information.  Some crazy ideas come to mind but I know they would be frowned upon, at least until refined.  But, so many reputable sites these days allow for honest customer feedback, positive and negative, and then the business (or school, in this case) has the opportunity to respond and defend any negative remarks.   This is actually pretty much the reality of business these days, so ...

HVbaseballDAD posted:

Twoboys,

I will gladly relay specifics to anyone in a Private Message.

RJM,

I hope you enjoy the view from your high horse because you have no clue what goes on down on the ground at Tufts. 

I don't think he was being on a high horse, because he said he didn't like the guy at first.  A lot of baseball coaches are an "acquired taste" so to speak.  What he was suggesting is that your thoughts about how your son was treated could be valid, but the way you've chosen to lash out is probably not the best idea.

I thought his suggestion to put it in a different post without naming names would have been quite beneficial to all.

rynoattack posted:

...A lot of baseball coaches are an "acquired taste" so to speak.  

 

Hahaha... quote of the day.  Even as a coach, that there was funny.

RJM posted:

old_school posted:

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

 

Yeah, go figure ...

Tufts University head coach John Casey, now in his 34th season, is one of the most respected leaders in collegiate baseball.

Coach Casey served as President of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) for 2016. A member of the ABCA's leadership team for several years, he ascended to the Presidency after serving as a Vice President for four years. He is a member of the ABCA Board of Directors.

On the field, Coach Casey's Jumbos earned one of their most successful seasons in 2016. Tufts advanced further than any New England team in the NCAA Regionals, reaching the championship round before falling to eventual national runner-up Keystone College. Tufts won the 2016 New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) Championship and their 35-8 final record was the most wins for a season in program history.

Since 2010, Tufts has earned four NCAA berths and won three NESCAC titles under Coach Casey. The Jumbos won back-to-back conference crowns and earned #1 seeds at the 2010 and 2011 NCAA New England Regional Tournaments. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 2014. The program has received six national berths and won four conference titles during Coach Casey’s tenure overall. Tufts captured its eighth NESCAC East Division pennant last spring and hosted the conference championship.

The 2014 Jumbos presented Coach Casey with the 600th victory of his career, a 5-1 win at Bowdoin on April 27 of that season. He was the 43rd coach in NCAA Div. III Baseball history to reach the 600 wins milestone and the seventh among New England Division III mentors. A 1980 Tufts graduate, Casey has directed the Jumbos for 33 seasons at his alma mater and amassed a 669-385-4 record. He is 17th among active coaches and 36th all-time for Division III coaching victories.

Casey's teams have featured five players who signed professionally and several All-Americans. Randy Newsom, a 2004 Tufts graduate, signed with the Boston Red Sox. He was traded to Cleveland as part of a deal for Coco Crisp, and he advanced to the Indians’ Triple A affiliate in Buffalo. Pitcher Jeff Taglienti and outfielder Dan Callahan are also Jumbos coached by Casey who were drafted by Major League organizations. Last spring, pitcher Speros Varinos was honored as an All-American and Northeast Pitcher of the Year by D3baseball.com.

Tufts players have also been recognized for their academic achievement and commitment to community service during Casey’s tenure. Catcher Bryan Egan, a 2015 graduate, and shortstop Scott Staniewicz, a 2013 graduate, were named to the Capital One Academic All-America® Division III Baseball Teams. The team holds an annual 100 inning charity game supporting Homes for Our Troops among its many community service activities.

In November 1999, Coach Casey was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Boston Park League, the oldest amateur baseball league in the country. In 2000, the New England Intercollegiate Baseball Association (NEIBA) presented him the Jack Butterfield Award, its most prestigious honor. He received the Andy Baylock Distinguished Service Award from the NEIBA in 2005. Casey was promoted to Assistant Athletics Director at Tufts in 2001.

As an undergraduate, he helped pitch the Jumbos to consecutive ECAC Division II-III Tournament appearances. Also a tight end on 1979’s undefeated football team, he returned to Tufts a year later as a baseball and football assistant. He replaced Lee Sargent as head baseball coach in 1984. The program has recorded 25 winning seasons during his tenure.

Several former players and assistant coaches under Casey are now successful coaches at the college or high school level. Paul Svagdis, a 1993 graduate, guided Azusa Pacific University to two straight NAIA College World Series berths recently. Jamie Pinzino, a 1997 Tufts graduate, is the associated head coach at Virginia Tech. Former assistant coach Jason Tower is now the head coach at Roger Williams.

Ok.  But to the ends justify the means? 

cabbagedad posted:

There has always been an unspoken (sometimes spoken) rule that this site is not the place to bash specific schools (any school), players, etc.  And the reasons are honorable and very valid.  There has also been discussion in various threads about how it could be beneficial for those going thru the recruiting process to know specific red flags about a particular school.  It is a bit of a catch 22.

Maybe we can come up with an appropriate way to address/provide this type of information.  Some crazy ideas come to mind but I know they would be frowned upon, at least until refined.  But, so many reputable sites these days allow for honest customer feedback, positive and negative, and then the business (or school, in this case) has the opportunity to respond and defend any negative remarks.   This is actually pretty much the reality of business these days, so ...

 

Yelp for baseball coaches - sad we even need to contemplate that!

Families like mine come to high school baseball web to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. I appreciate any player or parent who comes back to the site and posts the outcome of their college baseball journey. Let the readers decide what they want to believe or ignore. If people are subject to criticism they are not going to bother to post which is a shame for younger parents and players trying to navigate these waters in the future!

SanDiegoRealist posted:

cabbagedad posted:

There has always been an unspoken (sometimes spoken) rule that this site is not the place to bash specific schools (any school), players, etc.  And the reasons are honorable and very valid.  There has also been discussion in various threads about how it could be beneficial for those going thru the recruiting process to know specific red flags about a particular school.  It is a bit of a catch 22.

Maybe we can come up with an appropriate way to address/provide this type of information.  Some crazy ideas come to mind but I know they would be frowned upon, at least until refined.  But, so many reputable sites these days allow for honest customer feedback, positive and negative, and then the business (or school, in this case) has the opportunity to respond and defend any negative remarks.   This is actually pretty much the reality of business these days, so ...

 

Yelp for baseball coaches - sad we even need to contemplate that!

Instead of 'ratemyteacher', ratemycoach?

It could be it's own page!

LOL

We can take 99% of the college coaches and programs at every level, place their name in this thread for Tufts and coach Casey and find a player or parent who ends up extremely critical and full of  resentment 

Yelp for baseball coaches - sad we even need to contemplate that!

Interesting that you mention Yelp, as they are hated by many business owners for aggressive marketing efforts that (allegedly) include threatening bad reviews for those who don't advertize. That's the opposite of the situation here, as clearly this site isn't a moneymaker for the owner. But it is still a useful comparison, as those who use Yelp, Tripadvisor, RateMyTeacher, College Confidential, Google, etc. etc. must learn that any individual review of any business on any site needs to be taken with a grain of salt.  Trends are more reliable, but in some cases even large sample sizes are not enough to establish good intel on a business for a variety of reasons.  So anybody who comes onto this site and makes a decision not to pursue a certain school due to the complaints of one disgruntled parent is simply not being smart. But that doesn't mean that a family shouldn't be able consider that experience along with all of the other info they gather, and it might help them realize  that they  need to be honest with  themselves about the kid's place in the talent pool at that school, as well as how much the kid is focused on academics vs. athletics.

Edit to say thanks to Louise for saying what I wanted to say but better, while using a third as many words.

There is a site already:

http://www.ratemycoaches.com/

infielddad posted:

We can take 99% of the college coaches and programs at every level, place their name in this thread for Tufts and coach Casey and find a player or parent who ends up extremely critical and full of  resentment 

That's true all the way down to Little League. Hell, especially LL. I have a neighbor who 6 years later will barely speak to me because his son didn't start on one of my teams.

Golfman25 posted:

RJM posted:

old_school posted:

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

 

Yeah, go figure ...

Tufts University head coach John Casey, now in his 34th season, is one of the most respected leaders in collegiate baseball.

Coach Casey served as President of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) for 2016. A member of the ABCA's leadership team for several years, he ascended to the Presidency after serving as a Vice President for four years. He is a member of the ABCA Board of Directors.

On the field, Coach Casey's Jumbos earned one of their most successful seasons in 2016. Tufts advanced further than any New England team in the NCAA Regionals, reaching the championship round before falling to eventual national runner-up Keystone College. Tufts won the 2016 New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) Championship and their 35-8 final record was the most wins for a season in program history.

Since 2010, Tufts has earned four NCAA berths and won three NESCAC titles under Coach Casey. The Jumbos won back-to-back conference crowns and earned #1 seeds at the 2010 and 2011 NCAA New England Regional Tournaments. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 2014. The program has received six national berths and won four conference titles during Coach Casey’s tenure overall. Tufts captured its eighth NESCAC East Division pennant last spring and hosted the conference championship.

The 2014 Jumbos presented Coach Casey with the 600th victory of his career, a 5-1 win at Bowdoin on April 27 of that season. He was the 43rd coach in NCAA Div. III Baseball history to reach the 600 wins milestone and the seventh among New England Division III mentors. A 1980 Tufts graduate, Casey has directed the Jumbos for 33 seasons at his alma mater and amassed a 669-385-4 record. He is 17th among active coaches and 36th all-time for Division III coaching victories.

Casey's teams have featured five players who signed professionally and several All-Americans. Randy Newsom, a 2004 Tufts graduate, signed with the Boston Red Sox. He was traded to Cleveland as part of a deal for Coco Crisp, and he advanced to the Indians’ Triple A affiliate in Buffalo. Pitcher Jeff Taglienti and outfielder Dan Callahan are also Jumbos coached by Casey who were drafted by Major League organizations. Last spring, pitcher Speros Varinos was honored as an All-American and Northeast Pitcher of the Year by D3baseball.com.

Tufts players have also been recognized for their academic achievement and commitment to community service during Casey’s tenure. Catcher Bryan Egan, a 2015 graduate, and shortstop Scott Staniewicz, a 2013 graduate, were named to the Capital One Academic All-America® Division III Baseball Teams. The team holds an annual 100 inning charity game supporting Homes for Our Troops among its many community service activities.

In November 1999, Coach Casey was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Boston Park League, the oldest amateur baseball league in the country. In 2000, the New England Intercollegiate Baseball Association (NEIBA) presented him the Jack Butterfield Award, its most prestigious honor. He received the Andy Baylock Distinguished Service Award from the NEIBA in 2005. Casey was promoted to Assistant Athletics Director at Tufts in 2001.

As an undergraduate, he helped pitch the Jumbos to consecutive ECAC Division II-III Tournament appearances. Also a tight end on 1979’s undefeated football team, he returned to Tufts a year later as a baseball and football assistant. He replaced Lee Sargent as head baseball coach in 1984. The program has recorded 25 winning seasons during his tenure.

Several former players and assistant coaches under Casey are now successful coaches at the college or high school level. Paul Svagdis, a 1993 graduate, guided Azusa Pacific University to two straight NAIA College World Series berths recently. Jamie Pinzino, a 1997 Tufts graduate, is the associated head coach at Virginia Tech. Former assistant coach Jason Tower is now the head coach at Roger Williams.

Ok.  But to the ends justify the means? 

Ends justify the means? Is there a college coach in any sport at any level who hasn't cut a kid? Nothing is guaranteed. The only thing guarantee is getting on the field in fall ball freshman year. Yes, some players get more opportunity than others. But if a player doesn't recognize the situation when he's being recruited he's not being true to himself.

If a kid doesn't feel he got a chance it's because he wasn't high on the recruiting list. It's just the way it is. It was up to him and his parents to recognize this during the process. With the exception of the top shelf, jaw dropping studs who could have signed out of high school every player is taking a leap of faith. 

This is just me. But if I were a D3 player sent to JV for a second season I would have given up college baseball (still play in the summer) or transferred. At a NESCAC I probably would have stayed at the school.

This is just me. But if I were a D3 player sent to JV for a second season I would have given up college baseball (still play in the summer) or transferred. At a NESCAC I probably would have stayed at the school.

I agree with this.  My son will be heading to a high academic D3 next fall, and if he doesn't win enough playing time after a couple years and wants to quit, good for him, as long as he stays in school. That's the meat and potatoes; the baseball is the gravy. Sports have always been a part his life so he'd probably play club ultimate or rugby or try to walk onto the football or basketball team.

HVbaseballDAD posted:

Well, it is 3 and a half years later and my son was just cut this morning after a career of playing in 7 JV games (where he batted .600 with a 1.500 slugging %) and getting 1 at-bat for the big squad (flyout to deep center) and 2 innings in the outfield (no balls hit to him) last year.  My advice to anyone who will listen is to avoid Tufts like the plague.  PM me for the details, but you just can't make up how warped this program is. 

I always believe that in these situations that there are 2 sides to every story.  Obviously this really wasn't a great baseball fit from the beginning.

I know nothing of your player, other than you feel that he got screwed. If baseball was more important than his degree, why did he stay for 3 and a half years?  

I have been here for a very long time, and I don't approve of anyone saying anything negative about a player or coach. That's not what we do here. 

I spoke to a former player last weekend who began his baseball career at a very prominent, well known D1. He didn't like the HC. Pretty surprising because I know players who would give an arm or a leg to play in this program.  Some just don't realize that for most of the more successful coaches, you do need to acquire a taste.  

I am sorry things didn't work out for your son, but for anyone reading, JV programs serve a purpose, $$$$$ for the school. Very rarely will a player perfectly move up to the VA team.

I am sorry that things didn't work out for your son as far as baseball goes. Your son will walk away with a  Tufts degree, and that IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT.

I am sorry things didn't work out for your son, but for anyone reading, JV programs serve a purpose, $$$$$ for the school. Very rarely will a player perfectly move up to the VA team.

That's an important point when looking at many schools, but not a school like Tufts.  With a 14% acceptance rate., they don't need JV baseball to put paying customers in the classroom.

JCG posted:

I am sorry things didn't work out for your son, but for anyone reading, JV programs serve a purpose, $$$$$ for the school. Very rarely will a player perfectly move up to the VA team.

That's an important point when looking at many schools, but not a school like Tufts.  With a 14% acceptance rate., they don't need JV baseball to put paying customers in the classroom.

Yes and no. 42% are receiving financial aid that averages 32K. I'll bet there's a sliding scale where a kid who "might" help an athletic team and is paying most of his own way might get some preference.

RJM posted:

JCG posted:

I am sorry things didn't work out for your son, but for anyone reading, JV programs serve a purpose, $$$$$ for the school. Very rarely will a player perfectly move up to the VA team.

That's an important point when looking at many schools, but not a school like Tufts.  With a 14% acceptance rate., they don't need JV baseball to put paying customers in the classroom.

Yes and no. 42% are receiving financial aid that averages 32K. I'll bet there's a sliding scale where a kid who "might" help an athletic team and is paying most of his own way might get some preference.

I agree.

Question though, was the player asked to apply ED?

I have to say, after dealing with NESCACs all summer, fall and even a little this winter, I had no idea that Tufts even had a JV team!   Do any of the other NESCAC schools also have a JV team?  On that note, do any of the other known over recruiting high academic D3s have them too??  This is NOT publicized so would be informative to know more....

Twoboys, which high academic schools are you thinking of that over recruit?  Just wondering the same as you.  Amherst does not have a JV.

Would you consider 41 on a roster over recruiting? There's no way to know if they cut down to 41.

http://www.hopkinssports.com/s...op-m-basebl-mtt.html

Would 43 on a roster be considered over recruiting? How many were cut to get to 43?

http://www.goaugie.com/roster.aspx?path=baseball

I know this has been about Tufts and D3 schools, but FIU has 29 commits for class of 2017 on PG website....so either Melendez is cleaning house or he's over-recruiting (IMO)...29!

Added info re: Amherst...38 guys on the 2016 roster, 32 with uniform numbers and Coach is very clear that the travel squad will be much smaller (approx 25)

RJM posted:

Golfman25 posted:

RJM posted:

old_school posted:

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

 

Yeah, go figure ...

Tufts University head coach John Casey, now in his 34th season, is one of the most respected leaders in collegiate baseball.

Coach Casey served as President of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) for 2016. A member of the ABCA's leadership team for several years, he ascended to the Presidency after serving as a Vice President for four years. He is a member of the ABCA Board of Directors.

On the field, Coach Casey's Jumbos earned one of their most successful seasons in 2016. Tufts advanced further than any New England team in the NCAA Regionals, reaching the championship round before falling to eventual national runner-up Keystone College. Tufts won the 2016 New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) Championship and their 35-8 final record was the most wins for a season in program history.

Since 2010, Tufts has earned four NCAA berths and won three NESCAC titles under Coach Casey. The Jumbos won back-to-back conference crowns and earned #1 seeds at the 2010 and 2011 NCAA New England Regional Tournaments. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 2014. The program has received six national berths and won four conference titles during Coach Casey’s tenure overall. Tufts captured its eighth NESCAC East Division pennant last spring and hosted the conference championship.

The 2014 Jumbos presented Coach Casey with the 600th victory of his career, a 5-1 win at Bowdoin on April 27 of that season. He was the 43rd coach in NCAA Div. III Baseball history to reach the 600 wins milestone and the seventh among New England Division III mentors. A 1980 Tufts graduate, Casey has directed the Jumbos for 33 seasons at his alma mater and amassed a 669-385-4 record. He is 17th among active coaches and 36th all-time for Division III coaching victories.

Casey's teams have featured five players who signed professionally and several All-Americans. Randy Newsom, a 2004 Tufts graduate, signed with the Boston Red Sox. He was traded to Cleveland as part of a deal for Coco Crisp, and he advanced to the Indians’ Triple A affiliate in Buffalo. Pitcher Jeff Taglienti and outfielder Dan Callahan are also Jumbos coached by Casey who were drafted by Major League organizations. Last spring, pitcher Speros Varinos was honored as an All-American and Northeast Pitcher of the Year by D3baseball.com.

Tufts players have also been recognized for their academic achievement and commitment to community service during Casey’s tenure. Catcher Bryan Egan, a 2015 graduate, and shortstop Scott Staniewicz, a 2013 graduate, were named to the Capital One Academic All-America® Division III Baseball Teams. The team holds an annual 100 inning charity game supporting Homes for Our Troops among its many community service activities.

In November 1999, Coach Casey was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Boston Park League, the oldest amateur baseball league in the country. In 2000, the New England Intercollegiate Baseball Association (NEIBA) presented him the Jack Butterfield Award, its most prestigious honor. He received the Andy Baylock Distinguished Service Award from the NEIBA in 2005. Casey was promoted to Assistant Athletics Director at Tufts in 2001.

As an undergraduate, he helped pitch the Jumbos to consecutive ECAC Division II-III Tournament appearances. Also a tight end on 1979’s undefeated football team, he returned to Tufts a year later as a baseball and football assistant. He replaced Lee Sargent as head baseball coach in 1984. The program has recorded 25 winning seasons during his tenure.

Several former players and assistant coaches under Casey are now successful coaches at the college or high school level. Paul Svagdis, a 1993 graduate, guided Azusa Pacific University to two straight NAIA College World Series berths recently. Jamie Pinzino, a 1997 Tufts graduate, is the associated head coach at Virginia Tech. Former assistant coach Jason Tower is now the head coach at Roger Williams.

Ok.  But to the ends justify the means? 

Ends justify the means? Is there a college coach in any sport at any level who hasn't cut a kid? Nothing is guaranteed. The only thing guarantee is getting on the field in fall ball freshman year. Yes, some players get more opportunity than others. But if a player doesn't recognize the situation when he's being recruited he's not being true to himself.

If a kid doesn't feel he got a chance it's because he wasn't high on the recruiting list. It's just the way it is. It was up to him and his parents to recognize this during the process. With the exception of the top shelf, jaw dropping studs who could have signed out of high school every player is taking a leap of faith. 

This is just me. But if I were a D3 player sent to JV for a second season I would have given up college baseball (still play in the summer) or transferred. At a NESCAC I probably would have stayed at the school.

This is the root of the problem here.  How does one know if a coach is BSing a recruit?  Especially with D3 where no "love" (money) is involved.  With D1 scholarship schools at least there is are rules - a certain dollar amount spread over a certain number of players.  And there can only be so many players.  There are several discussion about the risks of a "preferred" walk on -- when they find out 20 kids have been "preferred" for a few spots.  Well D3 is similar, isn't it?  Unlimited rosters and JV teams.  Coaches can say a lot to get you to school, but what is the truth?  How do you judge a coach's honesty?  Is he a man of his word?  Really, what is to stop a coach from "offering" 20 plus players each year by saying whatever he has to and than sorting out the 5 or 6 who can play after school starts? 

SanDiegoRealist posted:

I know this has been about Tufts and D3 schools, but FIU has 29 commits for class of 2017 on PG website....so either Melendez is cleaning house or he's over-recruiting (IMO)...29!

FIU is D1 so it does not have anything to do with the discussion.  About 15 are seniors and I am assuming he will clean house after this year.  As far as the PG commit list, that's  probably a commit list only, not necessarily all scholarship signers.

Golfman25 posted:

RJM posted:

Golfman25 posted:

RJM posted:

old_school posted:

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

 

Yeah, go figure ...

Tufts University head coach John Casey, now in his 34th season, is one of the most respected leaders in collegiate baseball.

Coach Casey served as President of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) for 2016. A member of the ABCA's leadership team for several years, he ascended to the Presidency after serving as a Vice President for four years. He is a member of the ABCA Board of Directors.

On the field, Coach Casey's Jumbos earned one of their most successful seasons in 2016. Tufts advanced further than any New England team in the NCAA Regionals, reaching the championship round before falling to eventual national runner-up Keystone College. Tufts won the 2016 New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) Championship and their 35-8 final record was the most wins for a season in program history.

Since 2010, Tufts has earned four NCAA berths and won three NESCAC titles under Coach Casey. The Jumbos won back-to-back conference crowns and earned #1 seeds at the 2010 and 2011 NCAA New England Regional Tournaments. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 2014. The program has received six national berths and won four conference titles during Coach Casey’s tenure overall. Tufts captured its eighth NESCAC East Division pennant last spring and hosted the conference championship.

The 2014 Jumbos presented Coach Casey with the 600th victory of his career, a 5-1 win at Bowdoin on April 27 of that season. He was the 43rd coach in NCAA Div. III Baseball history to reach the 600 wins milestone and the seventh among New England Division III mentors. A 1980 Tufts graduate, Casey has directed the Jumbos for 33 seasons at his alma mater and amassed a 669-385-4 record. He is 17th among active coaches and 36th all-time for Division III coaching victories.

Casey's teams have featured five players who signed professionally and several All-Americans. Randy Newsom, a 2004 Tufts graduate, signed with the Boston Red Sox. He was traded to Cleveland as part of a deal for Coco Crisp, and he advanced to the Indians’ Triple A affiliate in Buffalo. Pitcher Jeff Taglienti and outfielder Dan Callahan are also Jumbos coached by Casey who were drafted by Major League organizations. Last spring, pitcher Speros Varinos was honored as an All-American and Northeast Pitcher of the Year by D3baseball.com.

Tufts players have also been recognized for their academic achievement and commitment to community service during Casey’s tenure. Catcher Bryan Egan, a 2015 graduate, and shortstop Scott Staniewicz, a 2013 graduate, were named to the Capital One Academic All-America® Division III Baseball Teams. The team holds an annual 100 inning charity game supporting Homes for Our Troops among its many community service activities.

In November 1999, Coach Casey was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Boston Park League, the oldest amateur baseball league in the country. In 2000, the New England Intercollegiate Baseball Association (NEIBA) presented him the Jack Butterfield Award, its most prestigious honor. He received the Andy Baylock Distinguished Service Award from the NEIBA in 2005. Casey was promoted to Assistant Athletics Director at Tufts in 2001.

As an undergraduate, he helped pitch the Jumbos to consecutive ECAC Division II-III Tournament appearances. Also a tight end on 1979’s undefeated football team, he returned to Tufts a year later as a baseball and football assistant. He replaced Lee Sargent as head baseball coach in 1984. The program has recorded 25 winning seasons during his tenure.

Several former players and assistant coaches under Casey are now successful coaches at the college or high school level. Paul Svagdis, a 1993 graduate, guided Azusa Pacific University to two straight NAIA College World Series berths recently. Jamie Pinzino, a 1997 Tufts graduate, is the associated head coach at Virginia Tech. Former assistant coach Jason Tower is now the head coach at Roger Williams.

Ok.  But to the ends justify the means? 

Ends justify the means? Is there a college coach in any sport at any level who hasn't cut a kid? Nothing is guaranteed. The only thing guarantee is getting on the field in fall ball freshman year. Yes, some players get more opportunity than others. But if a player doesn't recognize the situation when he's being recruited he's not being true to himself.

If a kid doesn't feel he got a chance it's because he wasn't high on the recruiting list. It's just the way it is. It was up to him and his parents to recognize this during the process. With the exception of the top shelf, jaw dropping studs who could have signed out of high school every player is taking a leap of faith. 

This is just me. But if I were a D3 player sent to JV for a second season I would have given up college baseball (still play in the summer) or transferred. At a NESCAC I probably would have stayed at the school.

This is the root of the problem here.  How does one know if a coach is BSing a recruit?  Especially with D3 where no "love" (money) is involved.  With D1 scholarship schools at least there is are rules - a certain dollar amount spread over a certain number of players.  And there can only be so many players.  There are several discussion about the risks of a "preferred" walk on -- when they find out 20 kids have been "preferred" for a few spots.  Well D3 is similar, isn't it?  Unlimited rosters and JV teams.  Coaches can say a lot to get you to school, but what is the truth?  How do you judge a coach's honesty?  Is he a man of his word?  Really, what is to stop a coach from "offering" 20 plus players each year by saying whatever he has to and than sorting out the 5 or 6 who can play after school starts? 

Once again, we don't know the full story, and stay away from walk on opportunities.

Golfman25 posted:

RJM posted:

Golfman25 posted:

RJM posted:

old_school posted:

Tufts is one of the sacred cows on this site...say something negative at your own risk!

 

Yeah, go figure ...

Tufts University head coach John Casey, now in his 34th season, is one of the most respected leaders in collegiate baseball.

Coach Casey served as President of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) for 2016. A member of the ABCA's leadership team for several years, he ascended to the Presidency after serving as a Vice President for four years. He is a member of the ABCA Board of Directors.

On the field, Coach Casey's Jumbos earned one of their most successful seasons in 2016. Tufts advanced further than any New England team in the NCAA Regionals, reaching the championship round before falling to eventual national runner-up Keystone College. Tufts won the 2016 New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) Championship and their 35-8 final record was the most wins for a season in program history.

Since 2010, Tufts has earned four NCAA berths and won three NESCAC titles under Coach Casey. The Jumbos won back-to-back conference crowns and earned #1 seeds at the 2010 and 2011 NCAA New England Regional Tournaments. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 2014. The program has received six national berths and won four conference titles during Coach Casey’s tenure overall. Tufts captured its eighth NESCAC East Division pennant last spring and hosted the conference championship.

The 2014 Jumbos presented Coach Casey with the 600th victory of his career, a 5-1 win at Bowdoin on April 27 of that season. He was the 43rd coach in NCAA Div. III Baseball history to reach the 600 wins milestone and the seventh among New England Division III mentors. A 1980 Tufts graduate, Casey has directed the Jumbos for 33 seasons at his alma mater and amassed a 669-385-4 record. He is 17th among active coaches and 36th all-time for Division III coaching victories.

Casey's teams have featured five players who signed professionally and several All-Americans. Randy Newsom, a 2004 Tufts graduate, signed with the Boston Red Sox. He was traded to Cleveland as part of a deal for Coco Crisp, and he advanced to the Indians’ Triple A affiliate in Buffalo. Pitcher Jeff Taglienti and outfielder Dan Callahan are also Jumbos coached by Casey who were drafted by Major League organizations. Last spring, pitcher Speros Varinos was honored as an All-American and Northeast Pitcher of the Year by D3baseball.com.

Tufts players have also been recognized for their academic achievement and commitment to community service during Casey’s tenure. Catcher Bryan Egan, a 2015 graduate, and shortstop Scott Staniewicz, a 2013 graduate, were named to the Capital One Academic All-America® Division III Baseball Teams. The team holds an annual 100 inning charity game supporting Homes for Our Troops among its many community service activities.

In November 1999, Coach Casey was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Boston Park League, the oldest amateur baseball league in the country. In 2000, the New England Intercollegiate Baseball Association (NEIBA) presented him the Jack Butterfield Award, its most prestigious honor. He received the Andy Baylock Distinguished Service Award from the NEIBA in 2005. Casey was promoted to Assistant Athletics Director at Tufts in 2001.

As an undergraduate, he helped pitch the Jumbos to consecutive ECAC Division II-III Tournament appearances. Also a tight end on 1979’s undefeated football team, he returned to Tufts a year later as a baseball and football assistant. He replaced Lee Sargent as head baseball coach in 1984. The program has recorded 25 winning seasons during his tenure.

Several former players and assistant coaches under Casey are now successful coaches at the college or high school level. Paul Svagdis, a 1993 graduate, guided Azusa Pacific University to two straight NAIA College World Series berths recently. Jamie Pinzino, a 1997 Tufts graduate, is the associated head coach at Virginia Tech. Former assistant coach Jason Tower is now the head coach at Roger Williams.

Ok.  But to the ends justify the means? 

Ends justify the means? Is there a college coach in any sport at any level who hasn't cut a kid? Nothing is guaranteed. The only thing guarantee is getting on the field in fall ball freshman year. Yes, some players get more opportunity than others. But if a player doesn't recognize the situation when he's being recruited he's not being true to himself.

If a kid doesn't feel he got a chance it's because he wasn't high on the recruiting list. It's just the way it is. It was up to him and his parents to recognize this during the process. With the exception of the top shelf, jaw dropping studs who could have signed out of high school every player is taking a leap of faith. 

This is just me. But if I were a D3 player sent to JV for a second season I would have given up college baseball (still play in the summer) or transferred. At a NESCAC I probably would have stayed at the school.

This is the root of the problem here.  How does one know if a coach is BSing a recruit?  Especially with D3 where no "love" (money) is involved.  With D1 scholarship schools at least there is are rules - a certain dollar amount spread over a certain number of players.  And there can only be so many players.  There are several discussion about the risks of a "preferred" walk on -- when they find out 20 kids have been "preferred" for a few spots.  Well D3 is similar, isn't it?  Unlimited rosters and JV teams.  Coaches can say a lot to get you to school, but what is the truth?  How do you judge a coach's honesty?  Is he a man of his word?  Really, what is to stop a coach from "offering" 20 plus players each year by saying whatever he has to and than sorting out the 5 or 6 who can play after school starts? 

Coaches don't recruit kids with the intention to cut them.  On the high academic side, it doesn't make much sense that a coach would BS a kid to come to his school, apply on his own, and then cut him.  The coach is going to get his 7-10 players that he needs in every recruiting class; kids he will "support". The schools mentioned here have no pressure from admissions to boost enrollment or applications.  So, what do they get out of lying to a borderline recruit who they will cut?

Let me take the other side here and say more people hear what they want to hear in the recruiting process, than hear what the coach is actually saying.  Let's say a Coach at one of these high academic D3's says, "We have guys ahead of you that we are going to support. If you apply and get in on your own, you will have a fair chance to make the team in the fall."  @Golfman25 this is what some might consider an "offer".  However, there are only 7, or so, that have an "offer". That offer is for support through admissions.  The other 13 have heard this line above.  It's their choice to apply and try out for the team.  This is often misinterpreted as an offer.  The only thing it is an offer for is an opportunity to make the team. I can guarantee you that these high academic D3's are not extending what some would consider "offers" to 20+ players per year.  No chance. They might extend the opportunity to make the team, and a fair chance, but not an offer.  They can't support 20+ kids through admissions. So, if an offer is support through admissions, then they are not over recruiting. They are getting 13 extra kids who have gotten into the school on their own and will receive a fair shot with an unmatched education. 

Keep in mind, those "offered" players still have to perform at a level that is worthy of being on the team.  And the "love" (money) at the D1 level can be taken away.  

Ultimately, whether it's D1,2,3,Juco,NAIA, or the club team, you have to perform at a certain level to make the team, and a certain level to play. Offers, Money, Love, etc, doesn't get you on the field.  

You nailed it sir!  

TPM posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

I know this has been about Tufts and D3 schools, but FIU has 29 commits for class of 2017 on PG website....so either Melendez is cleaning house or he's over-recruiting (IMO)...29!

FIU is D1 so it does not have anything to do with the discussion.  About 15 are seniors and I am assuming he will clean house after this year.  As far as the PG commit list, that's  probably a commit list only, not necessarily all scholarship signers.

 

I can see that Tufts is D3 and FIU is D1, clearly, as I stated so. The point I was making was in relationship to the comment about schools over-recruiting (whether it's to add bodies to the student body or for any other purpose).

About 15 are seniors, you are correct. In fact, exactly 15 of the 35 shown on the roster are seniors. So that should (under normal circumstances) leave 20 for 2018 season and adding 29 more to that mix equals...wait for it (math in public here)...49 players on roster at a D1 that is roster size limited to 35 I believe. 

That means 22 of those 49 kids are not going to be getting any scholarship dollars and 14 of them will not be rostered in the Spring (if everyone stays in place until spring 2018...not gonna happen, I know). Those are big numbers, and when we are discussing roster sizes (whether D1 or D3), recruiting red flags, and kids having opportunities at the schools they sign with, the example is relevant in my opinion.

It also a pretty glaring lesson at what can happen to players when a new coach/staff are brought into a school. Just like a lot of managers in businesses, you take a look at the operation, see what you need to do to improve it, and take action. It may mean personnel moves. I guess I am learning that college baseball rosters should be looked at in the same light. As such, knowing the coaching and recruiting history of a coach seems that much more important for a parent. Sites like PG with the ability to take a look and see who committed and who is rostered in the Spring affords a little bit of insight into that process (I know it's not 100% accurate). But it paints a picture that you can kind of fill in.

To be fair, I know some of the kids committed get drafted, didn't end up going to that school, etc...this is not a knock on one particular coach or program. I am just saying do your homework, use resources available to see how they are recruiting/signing and eventually playing their kids, and ask these questions to their faces. If they are put off by the question, it's not necessarily an admission of guilt or anything, but they should be able to answer that with an honest answer.

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Making an informed decision on where to go to school and potentially play ball is not obsessing, it's called due diligence.

Back to Tufts for a minute:  I have tremendous sympathy for HVbaseballdad as no one wants a child to have such a disappointing experience.  And it certainly is true that a coach can be great for one player and dismal for another.  This thread should be a cautionary tale for anyone whose son is considering college baseball at any level.  Nothing is set in stone.  I hope, HVbaseballdad, that the tremendous education your son is receiving at Tufts is a real consolation to you and to him. 

SanDiegoRealist posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Making an informed decision on where to go to school and potentially play ball is not obsessing, it's called due diligence.

I see it going beyond due diligence.  Parents are looking at commitments 3,4 years down the road and thats just silly.

Pouring over PG commit lists where your son may never get a contact is not necessary. I mean a real contact not just a camp invite. 

The day you are asked to make a trip to visit on campus, or the coach does some serious talking, then its time for due diligence.

JMO

TPM posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Making an informed decision on where to go to school and potentially play ball is not obsessing, it's called due diligence.

I see it going beyond due diligence.  Parents are looking at commitments 3,4 years down the road and thats just silly.

Pouring over PG commit lists where your son may never get a contact is not necessary. I mean a real contact not just a camp invite. 

The day you are asked to make a trip to visit on campus, or the coach does some serious talking, then its time for due diligence.

JMO

You are entitled to your opinion, TPM, and I would also think someone wouldn't waste their time looking up a coach's history unless they are being seriously considered for that program. At the point where there is real interest, then I believe it's time to start kicking the tires. Baseball scholarships are reviewed annually, everyone should be aware of that going in. All you can expect is to take it one year at a time.

It's a big investment of your kid's time, effort and family resources in the recruiting process (showcases, tournaments, camps, visits, etc) and if you actually attend the school and are paying tuition, room, board. I have known families whose sons were recruited and attended D1s only to transfer after a year for myriad reasons, and I can say most of us don't want that for our kids.

When you go out shoe shopping do you just assume that shoe is going to fit comfortably or do you try it on? You try it on, walk around a bit in the store and try to assess in 30 seconds if it's going to wear comfortably. Nothing worse than a pair of shoes that you like but they sit in your closet because they hurt your feet. No different in the recruiting process. RJM stated he saw things in a game on the field that he thought were unprofessional at one point in this thread I believe. For most that would be a caution sign, but maybe he didn't see it that way and is comfortable with that style of coaching. Anecdotally, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

We're all different and a lot of us on this board are just starting to navigate the college recruiting waters, and perhaps many of these parents were not college athletes (I know I wasn't) and are really in unfamiliar waters. I can probably safely say we all want our kids to land at a school where they will be happy, play ball, and graduate from - without transferring. I would never tell a parent not to perform due diligence at any point they feel the need.

My 2 cents.  HV and anyone for that matter should be able to come in this forum and post their view of the experience they feel they've had from a college and not get bashed for doing so.  Certainly,  posters come on and bash the high school coaches for a bad experience without getting as much negative response.  I feel that any information you receive on here is helpful, you simply have to be able to understand where the poster is coming from in offering their perspective.  With Tufts and HV, I sympathize, my son is the same year in college and I remember going back through posts regarding information on Tufts and what I read was not all good or all bad but I was suspicious enough to have second thoughts.  I never told my son and it never became an issue, but if I had read a post like HV's and juxtaposed it to the others, I would have said something to my son.  I realize that we all have opinions on things/programs college baseball wise but when a father gives a first hand account of what he saw his son go through that should count for a lot.  Best of luck to you and your son HV.

I have to add a few things.  I've now heard the other side in a PM re Tufts, and it is not just sour grapes IMHO, and sharing their experience is actually helpful to some of us.  Now about the other issues this thread has drifted into....

Over-recruiting:  there have been several warnings on this site about FOR EXAMPLE (just one of several) Hopkins.  They have everyone "try out" every year.  No one is guaranteed a spot there.  So it does not surprise me (a more informed consumer thanks to HSBW) to see 41 on the roster.  There are many other examples of large rosters too.

NESCAC/High academic schools:  Our 2017 has had "offers" (as explained above, that means admissions support from the coach).  Not from Tufts, but other schools in the conference.  This makes me interested to know about JV possibilities, as that is not what mine would want.  But he also has had several schools tell him he has a spot on the team (not a chance to make the team, some schools have ALSO said that) if he gets in on his own.  His scores and grades make him an attractive academic candidate anywhere, and some coaches have used that to help the guys that need the help to make the team better and get the "gravy" of our 2017 getting in without the slot.  There is some risk for us in that strategy as he may not get in without coach's support.  If and when he does however, he will want to clarify his position on the team before deciding where he goes.  

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

I don't believe in absolutes...including this one. SOME coaches abosolutly are dishonest and SOME people hear only what they want to hear.

this site has a large presence that defends the schools and coaches at all times - balance is a huge part of the equation and generally speaking it is lacking on here. 

seaver41 posted:

My 2 cents.  HV and anyone for that matter should be able to come in this forum and post their view of the experience they feel they've had from a college and not get bashed for doing so.  Certainly,  posters come on and bash the high school coaches for a bad experience without getting as much negative response.  I feel that any information you receive on here is helpful, you simply have to be able to understand where the poster is coming from in offering their perspective.  ...

Seaver, I think the main point of contention, though, is actually naming the school or coach out on the open forum.  I think most HS coach bashing here has been without naming the school or coach.

Trying to think further about the best solution here... it probably already exists.  We just need to make more aware of it...  People do come on the site asking about specific schools and I often see where PM's are offered. 

cabbagedad posted:

seaver41 posted:

My 2 cents.  HV and anyone for that matter should be able to come in this forum and post their view of the experience they feel they've had from a college and not get bashed for doing so.  Certainly,  posters come on and bash the high school coaches for a bad experience without getting as much negative response.  I feel that any information you receive on here is helpful, you simply have to be able to understand where the poster is coming from in offering their perspective.  ...

Seaver, I think the main point of contention, though, is actually naming the school or coach out on the open forum.  I think most HS coach bashing here has been without naming the school or coach.

Trying to think further about the best solution here... it probably already exists.  We just need to make more aware of it...  People do come on the site asking about specific schools and I often see where PM's are offered. 

I think this thread has been basically self-correcting. Next fall, if a family is  weighing an offer from Tufts and Google directs them to this thread, they will learn that at least one family thinks their kid was treated unfairly there, and also that the coach, program, and school have many admirers and a long history of success.

... and also that they have a JV team.  IMO nobody should head to any D3 school without knowing if there is a JV  team and how that impacts his role in the program.

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Let's take a bit closer look at these statements shall we?

1. Coach's are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want. Do you personally know every coach in college baseball? (i'm guessing not). How do you validate a statement like this? The use of the word 'tend' in the second part is a good qualifier, but again......HUGE generalization!

2. You know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't? Maybe his kid is considering an offer to the school mentioned? Maybe he knows just about everything about everyone of them? (appears he likes to do some research on the subject, No?)

3a. Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. I'll step out on the edge here and say.....Pretty sure that the OP feels his son did EXACTLY this and look what happened to him. Do any of us know the depths of the actual situation just by reading the first/original post? Of course not....Personally doing what you imply in this statement guarantee's nothing but MAYBE a 'decent' opportunity. Pretty sure that no-ones sone sets out to do poorly either in the classroom or on the field from the get go. (I know....I shouldn't generalize...lol)

3b. People have to stop obsessing over this. Wouldn't it be fair to say that one man's obsession is another man's hobby? How can you generalize with such broad statements about people you likely no nothing about? Seems to me that 'SDR' is not obsessing but rather educating himself on the topic which is likely to have a rather big impact on his family in a number of ways as he navigates down the path.

I get that you have been around here a while, have traveled the road that many of us are just getting started on (or are in the middle of) and may even have quite a bit of experience with the college baseball recruiting topic in general. But it seems (at face value) to be rather disingenuous and perhaps even counter-productive to paint EVERYONE with such a broad brush.....No?

In my opinion, college coaches expect 150% player commitment but give nothing in return. I don't know anything about Tufts, nor do I want to. Whether you are getting athletic money at other divisions or not (Div 3), they will replace you in a heartbeat if they feel like it. What these coaches don't realize is this was a big commitment for the player and family. Last I looked, college baseball doesn't give free rides.  College is a big deal and not something to be taken lightly. Coach loses no skin off his back if a player is not happy. You can't burn any bridges as a player (but I would sure love to). At the D3 level, they're not sure who will be on the field in the Fall so I think they have to string along as many players as they can . I realize that there are no guarantees, but there should be.

Rangerboy posted:

In my opinion, college coaches expect 150% player commitment but give nothing in return. I don't know anything about Tufts, nor do I want to. Whether you are getting athletic money at other divisions or not (Div 3), they will replace you in a heartbeat if they feel like it. What these coaches don't realize is this was a big commitment for the player and family. Last I looked, college baseball doesn't give free rides.  College is a big deal and not something to be taken lightly. Coach loses no skin off his back if a player is not happy. You can't burn any bridges as a player (but I would sure love to). At the D3 level, they're not sure who will be on the field in the Fall so I think they have to string along as many players as they can . I realize that there are no guarantees, but there should be.

What in life regarding success is guaranteed? My kids haven't played on a team where anything is guaranteed since rec ball. When I worked for someone else it was succeed or be fired. When I started a company it was succeed or go broke. Even college is pass or go home.

HV ... You publicly outed the college and the coach. How about publicly posting the issues? 

I understand where you're coming from, Ranger, but I'm not sure it's realistic. The baseball uncertainty is why a kid should pick a school he thinks he'll be happy at even if baseball doesn't work out. JMO. 

SanDiegoRealist posted:

TPM posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Making an informed decision on where to go to school and potentially play ball is not obsessing, it's called due diligence.

I see it going beyond due diligence.  Parents are looking at commitments 3,4 years down the road and thats just silly.

Pouring over PG commit lists where your son may never get a contact is not necessary. I mean a real contact not just a camp invite. 

The day you are asked to make a trip to visit on campus, or the coach does some serious talking, then its time for due diligence.

JMO

You are entitled to your opinion, TPM, and I would also think someone wouldn't waste their time looking up a coach's history unless they are being seriously considered for that program. At the point where there is real interest, then I believe it's time to start kicking the tires. Baseball scholarships are reviewed annually, everyone should be aware of that going in. All you can expect is to take it one year at a time.

It's a big investment of your kid's time, effort and family resources in the recruiting process (showcases, tournaments, camps, visits, etc) and if you actually attend the school and are paying tuition, room, board. I have known families whose sons were recruited and attended D1s only to transfer after a year for myriad reasons, and I can say most of us don't want that for our kids.

When you go out shoe shopping do you just assume that shoe is going to fit comfortably or do you try it on? You try it on, walk around a bit in the store and try to assess in 30 seconds if it's going to wear comfortably. Nothing worse than a pair of shoes that you like but they sit in your closet because they hurt your feet. No different in the recruiting process. RJM stated he saw things in a game on the field that he thought were unprofessional at one point in this thread I believe. For most that would be a caution sign, but maybe he didn't see it that way and is comfortable with that style of coaching. Anecdotally, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

We're all different and a lot of us on this board are just starting to navigate the college recruiting waters, and perhaps many of these parents were not college athletes (I know I wasn't) and are really in unfamiliar waters. I can probably safely say we all want our kids to land at a school where they will be happy, play ball, and graduate from - without transferring. I would never tell a parent not to perform due diligence at any point they feel the need.

I never said not to do your homework. 

This whole process is like a marriage, people break up for different reasons, but I am pretty sure its not always about the coach.

RJM, with all due respect, my point was that college is a big commitment for the entire family. My son is out of state, BIG financial commitment for us. Those were the great years when I wasn't expecting any guarantees from little league/rec ball. That was fun !  It's not fun anymore when you have forked over a lot of money because a coach told you your son would be able to play there (within a specific time frame) and it hasn't happened. Nothing changed for my son and his ability so you have to question what the coaches motives are.

TPM posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

TPM posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Making an informed decision on where to go to school and potentially play ball is not obsessing, it's called due diligence.

I see it going beyond due diligence.  Parents are looking at commitments 3,4 years down the road and thats just silly.

Pouring over PG commit lists where your son may never get a contact is not necessary. I mean a real contact not just a camp invite. 

The day you are asked to make a trip to visit on campus, or the coach does some serious talking, then its time for due diligence.

JMO

You are entitled to your opinion, TPM, and I would also think someone wouldn't waste their time looking up a coach's history unless they are being seriously considered for that program. At the point where there is real interest, then I believe it's time to start kicking the tires. Baseball scholarships are reviewed annually, everyone should be aware of that going in. All you can expect is to take it one year at a time.

It's a big investment of your kid's time, effort and family resources in the recruiting process (showcases, tournaments, camps, visits, etc) and if you actually attend the school and are paying tuition, room, board. I have known families whose sons were recruited and attended D1s only to transfer after a year for myriad reasons, and I can say most of us don't want that for our kids.

When you go out shoe shopping do you just assume that shoe is going to fit comfortably or do you try it on? You try it on, walk around a bit in the store and try to assess in 30 seconds if it's going to wear comfortably. Nothing worse than a pair of shoes that you like but they sit in your closet because they hurt your feet. No different in the recruiting process. RJM stated he saw things in a game on the field that he thought were unprofessional at one point in this thread I believe. For most that would be a caution sign, but maybe he didn't see it that way and is comfortable with that style of coaching. Anecdotally, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

We're all different and a lot of us on this board are just starting to navigate the college recruiting waters, and perhaps many of these parents were not college athletes (I know I wasn't) and are really in unfamiliar waters. I can probably safely say we all want our kids to land at a school where they will be happy, play ball, and graduate from - without transferring. I would never tell a parent not to perform due diligence at any point they feel the need.

I never said not to do your homework. 

This whole process is like a marriage, people break up for different reasons, but I am pretty sure its not always about the coach.

I think Desert Duck's reply to your post kind of sums it up. There are two sides to every story, and to use your marriage analogy, it's foolish to rush into a marriage without really knowing the other person (sounds a lot like due diligence). 

Nobody said it was "always" about the coach...but in my experience where there is smoke, there is fire.

DesertDuck posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Let's take a bit closer look at these statements shall we?

1. Coach's are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want. Do you personally know every coach in college baseball? (i'm guessing not). How do you validate a statement like this? The use of the word 'tend' in the second part is a good qualifier, but again......HUGE generalization!

2. You know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't? Maybe his kid is considering an offer to the school mentioned? Maybe he knows just about everything about everyone of them? (appears he likes to do some research on the subject, No?)

3a. Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. I'll step out on the edge here and say.....Pretty sure that the OP feels his son did EXACTLY this and look what happened to him. Do any of us know the depths of the actual situation just by reading the first/original post? Of course not....Personally doing what you imply in this statement guarantee's nothing but MAYBE a 'decent' opportunity. Pretty sure that no-ones sone sets out to do poorly either in the classroom or on the field from the get go. (I know....I shouldn't generalize...lol)

3b. People have to stop obsessing over this. Wouldn't it be fair to say that one man's obsession is another man's hobby? How can you generalize with such broad statements about people you likely no nothing about? Seems to me that 'SDR' is not obsessing but rather educating himself on the topic which is likely to have a rather big impact on his family in a number of ways as he navigates down the path.

 

I get that you have been around here a while, have traveled the road that many of us are just getting started on (or are in the middle of) and may even have quite a bit of experience with the college baseball recruiting topic in general. But it seems (at face value) to be rather disingenuous and perhaps even counter-productive to paint EVERYONE with such a broad brush.....No?

You arent gonna like this, but after 3 and a half years of not making the team, maybe the player, in the coaching staffs opinion would not contribute to the success of the team, for any reason.

Thats usually the case, and I truly understand that parents see their players as better than they are, but this is how it works.  

These are really tough situations. I'm fretting over my 2017 being moved to LF from CF this season and others are seeing once-promising baseball experiences going up in smoke. A lot of blood, sweat and tears we all shed for our kids and a game. 

Interesting thread here, many good points made. Good to hear all sides of the story. Every thing is rosy when a commit arrives at a school. HV's post was as a result of a long timeframe not an isolated instance and one person's assessment. Things do not always go as planned. Recruits do need to do their homework on a program and look at would they still like the school (climate, culture, geography, academics,placement) if the baseball part doesn't work out.  Remember, the coin as we see in this thread has two sides to it.

Rangerboy posted:

RJM, with all due respect, my point was that college is a big commitment for the entire family. My son is out of state, BIG financial commitment for us. Those were the great years when I wasn't expecting any guarantees from little league/rec ball. That was fun !  It's not fun anymore when you have forked over a lot of money because a coach told you your son would be able to play there (within a specific time frame) and it hasn't happened. Nothing changed for my son and his ability so you have to question what the coaches motives are.

If "Nothing has changed for your son and his ability", then maybe that is the problem.  He hasn't gotten better, or the coach brought in better players?  That is his job.  

College Baseball is not easy, and nothing is guaranteed.  I tell Ryno that he has to compete EVERY day, because his teammate and future teammates are fighting for his spot.  When he has found himself in an unenviable position, I have told him to work harder, not stay the same...

I personally am in the middle on this.  I can see where coaches wouldn't be entirely truthful, but I can't recall where Ryan had that situation happen to him.  The Kansas found Ryan late in the process, and told him that he had a scholarship IF his players were drafted.  Unfortunately, they had no players drafted that year, so the money was not available.  West Virginia came out to watch Ryan late in his Sr. Yr., and they said they really liked him, but they had 2 other guys they were considering.  He didn't get the spot.  

Do I think parents here what they want to hear?  Yes.  I would bet more times than the coach doesn't provide the full truth.  Why?  Because it feels good.  Everybody wants their boy to be wanted, and they hope he gets the best opportunity possible.

When a person says they got screwed, or the infamous, "It was politics", it initially gives me the "proceed with caution" feeling.  I need to know more prior to making a decision.

With all of the above being said, if the coach at Tufts cut him the day of the first game, I think that is horse@#$%!  The coach should have been able to let the boy know prior to that.  I can't imagine putting in the work all Fall/Winter, and then thinking I am on the opening day roster, and then be told the day of that I am not on the team.  I just don't think that is the right way to handle it.

Rynoattack: My interpretation of "nothing has changed" means my son's baseball talent has not deteriorated since he's been with the program. Of course he has gotten stronger/better and I would expect a good program to continue to develop its players.  If that is the way coaches conduct themselves (they are running a business). They should be honest and say to each and every recruit,"I will make you no promises, I don't know if and when you will play, and you may have a chance if there isn't a player I like more than you". That is the reality. We should all know why coaches don't say those things, no one would come to their school!

TPM posted:

DesertDuck posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Let's take a bit closer look at these statements shall we?

1. Coach's are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want. Do you personally know every coach in college baseball? (i'm guessing not). How do you validate a statement like this? The use of the word 'tend' in the second part is a good qualifier, but again......HUGE generalization!

2. You know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't? Maybe his kid is considering an offer to the school mentioned? Maybe he knows just about everything about everyone of them? (appears he likes to do some research on the subject, No?)

3a. Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. I'll step out on the edge here and say.....Pretty sure that the OP feels his son did EXACTLY this and look what happened to him. Do any of us know the depths of the actual situation just by reading the first/original post? Of course not....Personally doing what you imply in this statement guarantee's nothing but MAYBE a 'decent' opportunity. Pretty sure that no-ones sone sets out to do poorly either in the classroom or on the field from the get go. (I know....I shouldn't generalize...lol)

3b. People have to stop obsessing over this. Wouldn't it be fair to say that one man's obsession is another man's hobby? How can you generalize with such broad statements about people you likely no nothing about? Seems to me that 'SDR' is not obsessing but rather educating himself on the topic which is likely to have a rather big impact on his family in a number of ways as he navigates down the path.

 

I get that you have been around here a while, have traveled the road that many of us are just getting started on (or are in the middle of) and may even have quite a bit of experience with the college baseball recruiting topic in general. But it seems (at face value) to be rather disingenuous and perhaps even counter-productive to paint EVERYONE with such a broad brush.....No?

You arent gonna like this, but after 3 and a half years of not making the team, maybe the player, in the coaching staffs opinion would not contribute to the success of the team, for any reason.

Thats usually the case, and I truly understand that parents see their players as better than they are, but this is how it works.  

??

Is this like a..."Ground Control To Major Tom" type moment that I'm not quite picking up on?

I like it just fine and agree completely.

Rangerboy posted:

RJM, with all due respect, my point was that college is a big commitment for the entire family. My son is out of state, BIG financial commitment for us. Those were the great years when I wasn't expecting any guarantees from little league/rec ball. That was fun !  It's not fun anymore when you have forked over a lot of money because a coach told you your son would be able to play there (within a specific time frame) and it hasn't happened. Nothing changed for my son and his ability so you have to question what the coaches motives are.

I had two kids play baseball/softball hundreds of miles away. Neither one was promised anything. They were told the coaching staff felt they had the ability to contribute. They were told they had the potential to earn a position. My daughter was a fourth outfielder for four years. My son started somewhere on the field from mid freshman year. Every year a new hot recruit started over him opening day. He played the Sunday game, hit and never looked back. Every year he had a new position, or two.

What my kids did was chose universities where they would be happy to walk away with a degree. I would like to think Tufts fits this objective. It's one of the top small colleges in the country. 

For those who don't get it here is the coach's motivation ... Have thirty-five players available in a given year (could be more at a D3 or JuCo) that will provide eighteen to twenty players who can help the program win. If a player is not one of the eighteen to twenty it doesn't mean the coach is a jerk. It means the coaching staff placed more value in those eighteen to twenty players than the player in question. It happens at every baseball program every year.

It doesn't  mean a kid can't play. It only means he's not going to play there. It happens to D1 players who end up drafted every year.

RJM posted:

Would 43 on a roster be considered over recruiting? How many were cut to get to 43?

http://www.goaugie.com/roster.aspx?path=baseball

how about this one:  http://www.goboxers.com/roster.aspx?path=baseball

50!

This roster has 46. It must be a program to stay away from (sarcasm)

http://www.linfield.edu/sports...e.html?sport=bb#tab3

40 on this roster. Must be another program to avoid.

http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2016-17/roster

RJM posted:

40 on this roster. Must be another program to avoid.

http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2016-17/roster

Someone piss in your Cheerios? I don't think the OP would have had as big of beef with Tufts or the Coach had his son even been on the roster on the website, as that seemed to have impacted his ability to play summer ball as well. Perhaps if you would have PM'd him and actually heard his story you wouldn't be coming off like the jerk that you are right now.

SanDiegoRealist posted:

RJM posted:

40 on this roster. Must be another program to avoid.

http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2016-17/roster

Someone piss in your Cheerios? I don't think the OP would have had as big of beef with Tufts or the Coach had his son even been on the roster on the website, as that seemed to have impacted his ability to play summer ball as well. Perhaps if you would have PM'd him and actually heard his story you wouldn't be coming off like the jerk that you are right now.

Piss on my Cherios? I'm making a point large rosters as a result of a lot of recruits is not unusual at D3's.

The original poster had the courage to publicly trash Tufts and Coach Casey. I'm asking him to have the courage to posts the issues publicly. My issue is I thought it was gutless to trash the school and the coach without posting the issues.

In keeping with how this site operates he should have created a post explaining his son was recruited at an eastern academic D3. Here's what happened. If you want to know the name of the college and the coach PM me. 

But since he's publicly outed the college and the coach have the courage to publicly list the issues. Also, I have questions. Was the kid asked to apply ED? Did the coach say he would walk his application through admissions?

RJM posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

RJM posted:

40 on this roster. Must be another program to avoid.

http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2016-17/roster

Someone piss in your Cheerios? I don't think the OP would have had as big of beef with Tufts or the Coach had his son even been on the roster on the website, as that seemed to have impacted his ability to play summer ball as well. Perhaps if you would have PM'd him and actually heard his story you wouldn't be coming off like the jerk that you are right now.

Piss on my Cherios? I'm making a point large rosters as a result of a lot of recruits is not unusual at D3's.

The original poster had the courage to publicly trash Tufts and Coach Casey. I'm asking him to have the courage to posts the issues publicly. My issue is I thought it was gutless to trash the school and the coach without posting the issues.

In keeping with how this site operates he should have created a post explaining his son was recruited at an eastern academic D3. Here's what happened. If you want to know the name of the college and the coach PM me. 

But since he's publicly outed the college and the coach have the courage to publicly list the issues. Also, I have questions. Was the kid asked to apply ED? Did the coach say he would walk his application through admissions?

Ok, I am going to take the bait here, RJM. You seem compelled to take HV to task over his coming on a public forum and airing his grievances. Big deal. It's a big bad world out there, and apparently it's ok to learn that lesson on a baseball field but not anywhere else in life (like a forum like this)?

If the coach or university has a problem with what he said, they can come on here and defend themselves or slap him with a cease and desist order. Neither will likely happen, and as you said...there will be more who are willing to take the same route this kid did at Tufts because either they hear what they want to hear or think they can make the cut.

Emotions are a part of the game, right? I think most who are reading this understand there is emotional investment here. Easy to sit in a different position with a kid or kids who are currently rostered and "living the dream," quite another to see your kids dreams crushed. Give him a break, I think there is a lot of emotion going on and his heart is in the right place. I am sure if you PM him, he will likely answer your questions. But to sit here and put links to D3 rosters with sarcastic comments is only serving one purpose...

A coach isn't coming on here to defend himself. He's heard it all before. He has nothing to defend. Kids feeling they got screwed in college sports is as common as the cold. 

I would like to have my two questions answered. It would provide a lot of perspective. 

PM him, sure he's a little gun shy after his reception over the past day.

TPM posted:

DesertDuck posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Let's take a bit closer look at these statements shall we?

1. Coach's are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want. Do you personally know every coach in college baseball? (i'm guessing not). How do you validate a statement like this? The use of the word 'tend' in the second part is a good qualifier, but again......HUGE generalization!

2. You know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't? Maybe his kid is considering an offer to the school mentioned? Maybe he knows just about everything about everyone of them? (appears he likes to do some research on the subject, No?)

3a. Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. I'll step out on the edge here and say.....Pretty sure that the OP feels his son did EXACTLY this and look what happened to him. Do any of us know the depths of the actual situation just by reading the first/original post? Of course not....Personally doing what you imply in this statement guarantee's nothing but MAYBE a 'decent' opportunity. Pretty sure that no-ones sone sets out to do poorly either in the classroom or on the field from the get go. (I know....I shouldn't generalize...lol)

3b. People have to stop obsessing over this. Wouldn't it be fair to say that one man's obsession is another man's hobby? How can you generalize with such broad statements about people you likely no nothing about? Seems to me that 'SDR' is not obsessing but rather educating himself on the topic which is likely to have a rather big impact on his family in a number of ways as he navigates down the path.

 

I get that you have been around here a while, have traveled the road that many of us are just getting started on (or are in the middle of) and may even have quite a bit of experience with the college baseball recruiting topic in general. But it seems (at face value) to be rather disingenuous and perhaps even counter-productive to paint EVERYONE with such a broad brush.....No?

You arent gonna like this, but after 3 and a half years of not making the team, maybe the player, in the coaching staffs opinion would not contribute to the success of the team, for any reason.

Thats usually the case, and I truly understand that parents see their players as better than they are, but this is how it works.  

This has been a colorful and entertaining thread and I'm probably better off as an observer than a participant but I want to say that TPM is in my opinion correct.......After 3 1/2 years of primarily JV ball this shouldn't be a shock to the Parent or the player.

And TPM certainly doesn't need my defense here or anywhere else .This is a long time member whose son played not only at the highest level of NCAA baseball but also Pro ball. And a member that I have personally sought council with.

Opinions on this thread vary but could be categorized in two columns:

1)  posts from parents whose son's play college ball

2) post's from parents whose son's want to play college ball

There is validity in both categories. 

I think parents of players currently playing NCAA baseball have a much simpler view of these issues.

A couple of things:

'Playing time' is usually always at the root of whether a program or a coach gets bashed on here at HSBBWEB

NCAA Baseball coaching culture IS in fact one of truth and transparency . Most coaches do tell the truth. The ones that don't , Do not last.

PLAYING TIME : Parents convolute this issue when it is actually very, very simple. NCAA coaches dictate playing time by playing guys that they believe will help them WIN. These coaches are paid to WIN. Their lively hood depends on it. If your kid can hit and help them win. Then he will play. If your kid pitches and gets guys out he will play. Period.

*If they are not playing it is because they are not doing these things.

The commitment coaches make to players are contingent upon PERFORMANCE by the player. Also, it's worth mentioning that NCAA baseball coaches end up on the wrong side of deals every day. Players get hurt, Guys don't do well academically, Kids get into trouble at school or in the community , Kids fail drug tests. And these programs lose thousands of dollars in wasted scholarship money

Lastly, anything I type is just my opinion base on my experience

Ok so general question...

It looks like the tufts baseball roster lists abt 35 players on their website and unless I missed it, no mention of a jv roster or schedule. I assume the only way one knows how big a roster a team actually carries would be to ask the HC or RC at the appropriate time?

CmassRHPDad posted:

Ok so general question...

It looks like the tufts baseball roster lists abt 35 players on their website and unless I missed it, no mention of a jv roster or schedule. I assume the only way one knows how big a roster a team actually carries would be to ask the HC or RC at the appropriate time?

I am not sure but I think a JV team is more like a club team and not really affiliated with the Varsity team. There is a JV team at sons program, and as a coach he has absolutely nothing to do with the team.

I am awaiting an answer.

There is a tab on Tufts baseball website where you can get last year's media guide which shows both varsity an jv.  At least for 2015 it did http://www.jumbobaseball.com/media-guide.  

I have to add to my 2 cents. I copied a post from a while ago, the good and the bad is explained in this post, but the program and the coach are named.  So, while it's not done frequently, it is done.   Generally, I don't see the problem expressing naming someone if there is a bad experience, given that it is ok to issue superlatives to a named coach at other times.   HV started a hot button, I don't want to speak for him, but I'm sure his only intention was to provide information.  As a dad I certainly appreciate his position and sympathize with it.  BTW look at HV 's past posts and you can see what happened.  Again the below post is from over 10 years ago.

Info on top New England Schools | High School Baseball Web

seaver41 posted:

There is a tab on Tufts baseball website where you can get last year's media guide which shows both varsity an jv.  At least for 2015 it did http://www.jumbobaseball.com/media-guide.  

I have to add to my 2 cents. I copied a post from a while ago, the good and the bad is explained in this post, but the program and the coach are named.  So, while it's not done frequently, it is done.   Generally, I don't see the problem expressing naming someone if there is a bad experience, given that it is ok to issue superlatives to a named coach at other times.   HV started a hot button, I don't want to speak for him, but I'm sure his only intention was to provide information.  As a dad I certainly appreciate his position and sympathize with it.  BTW look at HV 's past posts and you can see what happened.  Again the below post is from over 10 years ago.

Info on top New England Schools | High School Baseball Web

massfan100+ posts

9/14/061:57 PM

Gold glove,
My brother, Ben Simon, is a captain at Tufts. He is a pitcher there. I won't speak much about it academically, because the NESCACs are all top notch schools. Tufts is particularly strong in political science, engineering, and sciences.

As for baseball, Ben has had an interesting 3 years. He was thrown into the weekend rotation as a freshman, and was the #1 as a sophomore and a junior. Coach Casey is an extremely intense man. It is well known in the area that people either love him or hate him. As a 2 year captain, Ben has had many experiences that frustrated him, but his overall experience has been great. Because Casey is so intense, he recruits hard nosed kids who want to work hard on and off the field. If you don't want to get yelled at, it's not the right place for you. If you don't want to hit the weight room and the swimming pool, it's not the right place for you. If you want to surround yourself with tough kids who sacrifice as much as possible to win, it is the right place for you. Last year, Tufts was #9 in the country until they lost 7 games in 2 weekends to Bowdoin and Middlebury. 6 of the 7 were one run games. They finished 24-14 and they beat 2 teams (Eastern CT and NC Wesleyan) that made the D III CWS. This year's team is hoping to get to the NCAAs and returns a very strong senior class.

On Sunday, Ben broke his arm in the middle of a fall ball practice. It was a freakishly scary experience for all involved. Coach Casey got to the field some time later (in the NESCAC, coaches cannot be present at fall ball practices, although this MUST change or else somebody is going to get sued for alot of $$$) and drove him to the hospital. He stayed with him all night, drove him back to his house, and waited with him until my parents picked him up. He stayed in the hospital room with him while doctors tried to mend the situation so that season ending surgery would not be neccessary. Ben called it the most painful thing he's ever endured and said that the only person he would have ever wanted with him other than family was Coach Casey.

I understand when people rip Casey because he definitely can make some enemies with his behavior. However, I can say with 100% assurety that if you play 4 years for him and give him everything you have, he will go to war for you.

Seaver, still not sure you are making your point with the attached post...

It is written by a brother, not a parent (the expectation of proper restraint is perhaps generally lessened) and, more importantly, the overall post is positive.  Many of the specifics listed (you're gonna get yelled at, you're gonna work hard with conditioning and you're gonna sacrifice) apply to every college coach.  There are certain tough traits that will be quite common for any man in charge of 35-55 young college males who have to come together and accomplish difficult tasks, working at it several hours a day for several months a year with no pay.

 

TPM posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

Ok so general question...

It looks like the tufts baseball roster lists abt 35 players on their website and unless I missed it, no mention of a jv roster or schedule. I assume the only way one knows how big a roster a team actually carries would be to ask the HC or RC at the appropriate time?

I am not sure but I think a JV team is more like a club team and not really affiliated with the Varsity team. There is a JV team at sons program, and as a coach he has absolutely nothing to do with the team.

I am awaiting an answer.

Well if it's a club team, call it a club team.  No reason to "disguise" it as "jv" which implies a relationship. 

StrainedOblique posted:

TPM posted:

DesertDuck posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Let's take a bit closer look at these statements shall we?

1. Coach's are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want. Do you personally know every coach in college baseball? (i'm guessing not). How do you validate a statement like this? The use of the word 'tend' in the second part is a good qualifier, but again......HUGE generalization!

2. You know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't? Maybe his kid is considering an offer to the school mentioned? Maybe he knows just about everything about everyone of them? (appears he likes to do some research on the subject, No?)

3a. Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. I'll step out on the edge here and say.....Pretty sure that the OP feels his son did EXACTLY this and look what happened to him. Do any of us know the depths of the actual situation just by reading the first/original post? Of course not....Personally doing what you imply in this statement guarantee's nothing but MAYBE a 'decent' opportunity. Pretty sure that no-ones sone sets out to do poorly either in the classroom or on the field from the get go. (I know....I shouldn't generalize...lol)

3b. People have to stop obsessing over this. Wouldn't it be fair to say that one man's obsession is another man's hobby? How can you generalize with such broad statements about people you likely no nothing about? Seems to me that 'SDR' is not obsessing but rather educating himself on the topic which is likely to have a rather big impact on his family in a number of ways as he navigates down the path.

 

I get that you have been around here a while, have traveled the road that many of us are just getting started on (or are in the middle of) and may even have quite a bit of experience with the college baseball recruiting topic in general. But it seems (at face value) to be rather disingenuous and perhaps even counter-productive to paint EVERYONE with such a broad brush.....No?

You arent gonna like this, but after 3 and a half years of not making the team, maybe the player, in the coaching staffs opinion would not contribute to the success of the team, for any reason.

Thats usually the case, and I truly understand that parents see their players as better than they are, but this is how it works.  

This has been a colorful and entertaining thread and I'm probably better off as an observer than a participant but I want to say that TPM is in my opinion correct.......After 3 1/2 years of primarily JV ball this shouldn't be a shock to the Parent or the player.

And TPM certainly doesn't need my defense here or anywhere else .This is a long time member whose son played not only at the highest level of NCAA baseball but also Pro ball. And a member that I have personally sought council with.

Opinions on this thread vary but could be categorized in two columns:

1)  posts from parents whose son's play college ball

2) post's from parents whose son's want to play college ball

There is validity in both categories. 

I think parents of players currently playing NCAA baseball have a much simpler view of these issues.

A couple of things:

'Playing time' is usually always at the root of whether a program or a coach gets bashed on here at HSBBWEB

NCAA Baseball coaching culture IS in fact one of truth and transparency . Most coaches do tell the truth. The ones that don't , Do not last.

PLAYING TIME : Parents convolute this issue when it is actually very, very simple. NCAA coaches dictate playing time by playing guys that they believe will help them WIN. These coaches are paid to WIN. Their lively hood depends on it. If your kid can hit and help them win. Then he will play. If your kid pitches and gets guys out he will play. Period.

*If they are not playing it is because they are not doing these things.

The commitment coaches make to players are contingent upon PERFORMANCE by the player. Also, it's worth mentioning that NCAA baseball coaches end up on the wrong side of deals every day. Players get hurt, Guys don't do well academically, Kids get into trouble at school or in the community , Kids fail drug tests. And these programs lose thousands of dollars in wasted scholarship money

Lastly, anything I type is just my opinion base on my experience

 

 

That was very nice, thank you and your post is 100 % correct. 

The one thing here that jumps out at me, is that those who have players, that have never attended or committed to any program, seem to have all the answers. They don't. 

Those such as yourself who have a player in a program or anyone who has previously, gets it.

As far as one doing due diligence, I am not sure what everyone is looking for, I know what we were looking for and I can tell you that playing for Jack Leggett and Kevin O'Sullivan at the same time wasn't easy.  I mean seriously. But my son wouldn't be who he is if he wasn't taken to the woodshed a few times, when he did deserve it and when he didn't.  These guys are not successful because they kiss your a$$ or want you to love them.  But when push comes to shove, they will take the bullet for you, but you have to give them all you got, or you won't make it.

I don't know HV or his son, I don't know Coach Casey.  It should have been handled differently.  Seaver41s post isubject the reason, all players see coaches differently, all parents do as well.  If the program has issues, that's a different discussion.

Golfman25 posted:

TPM posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

Ok so general question...

It looks like the tufts baseball roster lists abt 35 players on their website and unless I missed it, no mention of a jv roster or schedule. I assume the only way one knows how big a roster a team actually carries would be to ask the HC or RC at the appropriate time?

I am not sure but I think a JV team is more like a club team and not really affiliated with the Varsity team. There is a JV team at sons program, and as a coach he has absolutely nothing to do with the team.

I am awaiting an answer.

Well if it's a club team, call it a club team.  No reason to "disguise" it as "jv" which implies a relationship. 

I was just making a comparison.  Not sure of the significance of what JV actually means.

TPM posted:

StrainedOblique posted:

TPM posted:

DesertDuck posted:

TPM posted:

Coaches are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want.

Here is the deal, you know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. 

Rather than spend hours pouring over PG, just ask the coach during recruiting how many they plan on bringing in.  Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. People have to stop obsessing over this.

Let's take a bit closer look at these statements shall we?

1. Coach's are not dishonest, but rather people tend to hear what they want. Do you personally know every coach in college baseball? (i'm guessing not). How do you validate a statement like this? The use of the word 'tend' in the second part is a good qualifier, but again......HUGE generalization!

2. You know nothing about the recruits that are listed on PG. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't? Maybe his kid is considering an offer to the school mentioned? Maybe he knows just about everything about everyone of them? (appears he likes to do some research on the subject, No?)

3a. Have your son do well in the classroom and on the field and he will be fine. I'll step out on the edge here and say.....Pretty sure that the OP feels his son did EXACTLY this and look what happened to him. Do any of us know the depths of the actual situation just by reading the first/original post? Of course not....Personally doing what you imply in this statement guarantee's nothing but MAYBE a 'decent' opportunity. Pretty sure that no-ones sone sets out to do poorly either in the classroom or on the field from the get go. (I know....I shouldn't generalize...lol)

3b. People have to stop obsessing over this. Wouldn't it be fair to say that one man's obsession is another man's hobby? How can you generalize with such broad statements about people you likely no nothing about? Seems to me that 'SDR' is not obsessing but rather educating himself on the topic which is likely to have a rather big impact on his family in a number of ways as he navigates down the path.

 

I get that you have been around here a while, have traveled the road that many of us are just getting started on (or are in the middle of) and may even have quite a bit of experience with the college baseball recruiting topic in general. But it seems (at face value) to be rather disingenuous and perhaps even counter-productive to paint EVERYONE with such a broad brush.....No?

You arent gonna like this, but after 3 and a half years of not making the team, maybe the player, in the coaching staffs opinion would not contribute to the success of the team, for any reason.

Thats usually the case, and I truly understand that parents see their players as better than they are, but this is how it works.  

This has been a colorful and entertaining thread and I'm probably better off as an observer than a participant but I want to say that TPM is in my opinion correct.......After 3 1/2 years of primarily JV ball this shouldn't be a shock to the Parent or the player.

And TPM certainly doesn't need my defense here or anywhere else .This is a long time member whose son played not only at the highest level of NCAA baseball but also Pro ball. And a member that I have personally sought council with.

Opinions on this thread vary but could be categorized in two columns:

1)  posts from parents whose son's play college ball

2) post's from parents whose son's want to play college ball

There is validity in both categories. 

I think parents of players currently playing NCAA baseball have a much simpler view of these issues.

A couple of things:

'Playing time' is usually always at the root of whether a program or a coach gets bashed on here at HSBBWEB

NCAA Baseball coaching culture IS in fact one of truth and transparency . Most coaches do tell the truth. The ones that don't , Do not last.

PLAYING TIME : Parents convolute this issue when it is actually very, very simple. NCAA coaches dictate playing time by playing guys that they believe will help them WIN. These coaches are paid to WIN. Their lively hood depends on it. If your kid can hit and help them win. Then he will play. If your kid pitches and gets guys out he will play. Period.

*If they are not playing it is because they are not doing these things.

The commitment coaches make to players are contingent upon PERFORMANCE by the player. Also, it's worth mentioning that NCAA baseball coaches end up on the wrong side of deals every day. Players get hurt, Guys don't do well academically, Kids get into trouble at school or in the community , Kids fail drug tests. And these programs lose thousands of dollars in wasted scholarship money

Lastly, anything I type is just my opinion base on my experience

 

 

That was very nice, thank you and your post is 100 % correct. 

The one thing here that jumps out at me, is that those who have players, that have never attended or committed to any program, seem to have all the answers. They don't. 

Those such as yourself who have a player in a program or anyone who has previously, gets it.

As far as one doing due diligence, I am not sure what everyone is looking for, I know what we were looking for and I can tell you that playing for Jack Leggett and Kevin O'Sullivan at the same time wasn't easy.  I mean seriously. But my son wouldn't be who he is if he wasn't taken to the woodshed a few times, when he did deserve it and when he didn't.  These guys are not successful because they are always your best friends. But when push comes to shove, they will take the bullet for you, but you have to give them all you got, or you won't make it.

I don't know HV or his son, I don't know Coach Casey.  It should have been handled differently.  Seaver41s post is the reason. 

 

So....did the bolded statement above apply to you prior to your son playing at the 'highest level of NCAA D1 baseball'? Did you also have all the answers about the draft and intricacies of being a professional baseball player before your son experienced it all?

The one thing here that jumps out at me, is the condescending tone and ignorant blanket generalizations with the statements that you previously made above (I see you just added a couple more to the list). If I didn't know any better, I'd get the idea (from this thread anyway) that YOU are the one that seems to have ALL the answers?

I personally come here to learn what I can about the process from people that have already experienced it (both the good and bad) and are willing to share their experiences for the benefit of others. Not because I want to be chastised by someone that was fortunate enough to see their kid live a dream at the highest level's of college and professional baseball.

One thing I do know....is how to pick out an 'internet tough guy' (or gal) in a large crowd from a mile away.....

If anything I have written or suggested in this thread (or any other for that matter) gives the impression that "I know it all"......God help those that read what i type!

Good for you and your son. Very happy to hear that quite a bit has worked out well for you and your family. Others should be so blessed-

DD,

TPM posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

Ok so general question...

It looks like the tufts baseball roster lists abt 35 players on their website and unless I missed it, no mention of a jv roster or schedule. I assume the only way one knows how big a roster a team actually carries would be to ask the HC or RC at the appropriate time?

I am not sure but I think a JV team is more like a club team and not really affiliated with the Varsity team. There is a JV team at sons program, and as a coach he has absolutely nothing to do with the team.

I am awaiting an answer.

An answer from me? I missed the question. Please repeat?

Nevermind. 

It seems like jv means different thing to different schools. 

Rollins appears to have a pretty formal and well organized jv program.

http://www.rollinssports.com/S...08&SPSID=1079014

It sounds likes others describe college jv programs as little more than self managed rec programs?

CmassRHPDad posted:

It seems like jv means different thing to different schools. 

Rollins appears to have a pretty formal and well organized jv program.

http://www.rollinssports.com/S...08&SPSID=1079014

It sounds likes others describe college jv programs as little more than self managed rec programs?

I was trying to find out if JV teams are required to follow NCAA rules.

Thanks.

And not to hijack this thread even further but StrainedO said "If your kid pitches and gets guys out he will play. Period."  

I have to agree to disagree - there is this little something called velocity and most coaches seem to use that first and foremost.  So maybe "if you kid pitches, throws hard enough, and gets guys out" would work better for me.  I look forward to seeing what happens to guys we know who throw 90 but can't pitch but are playing D1 next year...And, yes, I also look forward to seeing where 2017 lands and if he can make the velo cut because he has the getting guys out part down. 

Hijack over.

There's greater potential for bitterness against NESCAC programs because transferring is not a viable option.  It's virtually impossible to transfer within the NESCAC, and to transfer to a non-NESCAC D-3 almost always would result in attending a school that is rated a lot lower academically.

Just the way it is.  Know it going in.  Not, in my opinion, a cause for complaint.

Twoboys posted:

And not to hijack this thread even further but StrainedO said "If your kid pitches and gets guys out he will play. Period."  

I have to agree to disagree - there is this little something called velocity and most coaches seem to use that first and foremost.  So maybe "if you kid pitches, throws hard enough, and gets guys out" would work better for me.  I look forward to seeing what happens to guys we know who throw 90 but can't pitch but are playing D1 next year...And, yes, I also look forward to seeing where 2017 lands and if he can make the velo cut because he has the getting guys out part down. 

Hijack over.

90+ draws attention. But it doesn't keep a pitcher on the mound. A team will have 16-18 pitchers. Typically only ten get meaningful mound time. Six to eight can be projects. But patience only lasts so long. A new batch of pitchers arrives every year. There are plenty of major conference and other high profile program pitchers cruising 87/88. There are plenty of mid major pitchers cruising 85/86.

Twoboys posted:

And not to hijack this thread even further but StrainedO said "If your kid pitches and gets guys out he will play. Period."  

I have to agree to disagree - there is this little something called velocity and most coaches seem to use that first and foremost.  So maybe "if you kid pitches, throws hard enough, and gets guys out" would work better for me.  I look forward to seeing what happens to guys we know who throw 90 but can't pitch but are playing D1 next year...And, yes, I also look forward to seeing where 2017 lands and if he can make the velo cut because he has the getting guys out part down. 

Hijack over.

I said "If your kid pitches and gets guys out he will play.Period" and that is correct. He will 'play' . I did not say get 'recruited'

I am talking about playing time at the college level..... Not recruiting.

Velocity is a measuring stick at the recruiting level but isn't nearly as big a factor when it comes to in game pitching changes / decisions. That is based on what I stated earlier. They want guys that 'get outs' . Preferably guys that get outs quick.

There are LHP's at the college level sitting 83 mph that will pitch today . And righty's throwing mid 80's with dirty breaking stuff that will be coming out of the pen today all over the country

smokeminside posted:

RJM posted:

Would 43 on a roster be considered over recruiting? How many were cut to get to 43?

http://www.goaugie.com/roster.aspx?path=baseball

how about this one:  http://www.goboxers.com/roster.aspx?path=baseball

50!

Wow..Smoke you know a program over-recruits when you see those football type #s (Unless the player/AD was a Gretzsky fan!)

Wow, I went away for a day and a half to visit 2016 at school and a lot transpired on this thread!  Can we not agree that cutting a player at the D3 level his senior year (when they can keep as many player as they want - or even those they don't) is a little over the top?  I can agree a bit that after 3 years on JV there is a little bit of the writing on the wall but can't we also agree that a player who has worked for 3 year and hung around (and also payed $60k+ per year minus whatever merit aid) deserves a shot to at least be around his senior year?  

Written from afar with out all the details obviously but just doesn't seem right to me.  

My two cents, i think it is relevant to the thread. My 2016 was a fr. at Tufts until today.  He and Coach Casey parted ways.  I told 2016 that he is a smart kid  and I will support him in any decision he makes.  To answer a few questions about our exp at Tufts.  

Casey is a intense coach, however 2016 and I have no issues with him. The issue was with 2016.  He lost the love for the game.  He was asked to apply ED and last semester he had a 4.00 GPA.  He kind  of used baseball as his hook ( and a 34 ACT ) get into Tufts. He wants the geo political science degree. 

Coupled with losing the love for the game, he fell in love with the academic side .. he will stay at the school and Casey even told him if the love returns come back out next year.   

2016 could not justify spending so much time at baseball when he could be spending time academically .... He wants to apply to study abroad at Oxford and needs to maintain his gpa to even apply.  

So am I sad he stopped playing baseball , sure a little, but it's his life and hey he's at Tufts making straight A's   ... I'm not that worried.  I hate that the OP invested so much time in the process... but the sting will wear off and another chapter in his life will start. I am sure he is a very talented person in other areas besides baseball.  

 BTW , TPM.... Tufts has a JV team and also a club team... not sure if the JV team is bond by NCAA.... 

Backdor, thanks for sharing this.  I've followed your posts ever since I joined, and have always appreciated your balance, and awareness of different routes to the college game.  Your son sounds very mature and focused and I wouldn't worry about him either. 

bacdorslider,

Congrats to your son.  It sounds like he's found what is most important to him, and he is pursuing it with everything he's got.   A big tip o' the cap to him and you for supporting him.

Best of luck!

MKbaseballdad posted:

Wow, I went away for a day and a half to visit 2016 at school and a lot transpired on this thread!  Can we not agree that cutting a player at the D3 level his senior year (when they can keep as many player as they want - or even those they don't) is a little over the top?  I can agree a bit that after 3 years on JV there is a little bit of the writing on the wall but can't we also agree that a player who has worked for 3 year and hung around (and also payed $60k+ per year minus whatever merit aid) deserves a shot to at least be around his senior year?  

Written from afar with out all the details obviously but just doesn't seem right to me.  

Here's a view on this independent of this particular situation. These comments are in no way directed at THIS player.

Keeping players who can't contribute as seniors is easier said than done.  Even though it's D3, they still don't just roll the balls out and play pickup games.  The more players you have, the more players you have to work into practice, the harder it is to get reps to contributors.  Running a practice with 40 kids is not an easy feat. Especially at the NESCAC level where your time with your team as a coach is so limited.  Also, not every D3 team can keep as many as they want.  In that case, keeping an upperclassmen with no chance to contribute causes a younger guy, who might improve, to get cut.  

Paying the $60k has absolutely nothing to do with being on the baseball team.  They're all paying.  

One situation could be the coach offers an upperclassmen that he would cut to stick around as a team manager.  I've had this on teams I've played/coached on, and it worked out great. The converse of keeping an upperclassmen around as a player often leads to a pretty disgruntled kid. A senior who thinks he "paid his dues" and never see's the field could be an issue.  Again, I'm not saying that would happen in this case, just giving a scenario. 

bacdorslider posted:

My two cents, i think it is relevant to the thread. My 2016 was a fr. at Tufts until today.  He and Coach Casey parted ways.  I told 2016 that he is a smart kid  and I will support him in any decision he makes.  To answer a few questions about our exp at Tufts.  

Casey is a intense coach, however 2016 and I have no issues with him. The issue was with 2016.  He lost the love for the game.  He was asked to apply ED and last semester he had a 4.00 GPA.  He kind  of used baseball as his hook ( and a 34 ACT ) get into Tufts. He wants the geo political science degree. 

Coupled with losing the love for the game, he fell in love with the academic side .. he will stay at the school and Casey even told him if the love returns come back out next year.   

2016 could not justify spending so much time at baseball when he could be spending time academically .... He wants to apply to study abroad at Oxford and needs to maintain his gpa to even apply.  

So am I sad he stopped playing baseball , sure a little, but it's his life and hey he's at Tufts making straight A's   ... I'm not that worried.  I hate that the OP invested so much time in the process... but the sting will wear off and another chapter in his life will start. I am sure he is a very talented person in other areas besides baseball.  

 

 BTW , TPM.... Tufts has a JV team and also a club team... not sure if the JV team is bond by NCAA.... 

 

 

 

 

 

Dave,

Congratulations and I love this story. He is doing what he wants to do, life goes on without baseball.  There is nothing more important than an education at the highest level. We need more young folks taking the path he has chosen.

As you stated, Coach Casey is an intense coach, which is very typical of the most successful coaches in any sport. 

JV teams have to abide by NCAA rules. Club teams do not.

BrianTRC posted:

MKbaseballdad posted:

Wow, I went away for a day and a half to visit 2016 at school and a lot transpired on this thread!  Can we not agree that cutting a player at the D3 level his senior year (when they can keep as many player as they want - or even those they don't) is a little over the top?  I can agree a bit that after 3 years on JV there is a little bit of the writing on the wall but can't we also agree that a player who has worked for 3 year and hung around (and also payed $60k+ per year minus whatever merit aid) deserves a shot to at least be around his senior year?  

Written from afar with out all the details obviously but just doesn't seem right to me.  

Here's a view on this independent of this particular situation. These comments are in no way directed at THIS player.

Keeping players who can't contribute as seniors is easier said than done.  Even though it's D3, they still don't just roll the balls out and play pickup games.  The more players you have, the more players you have to work into practice, the harder it is to get reps to contributors.  Running a practice with 40 kids is not an easy feat. Especially at the NESCAC level where your time with your team as a coach is so limited.  Also, not every D3 team can keep as many as they want.  In that case, keeping an upperclassmen with no chance to contribute causes a younger guy, who might improve, to get cut.  

Paying the $60k has absolutely nothing to do with being on the baseball team.  They're all paying.  

One situation could be the coach offers an upperclassmen that he would cut to stick around as a team manager.  I've had this on teams I've played/coached on, and it worked out great. The converse of keeping an upperclassmen around as a player often leads to a pretty disgruntled kid. A senior who thinks he "paid his dues" and never see's the field could be an issue.  Again, I'm not saying that would happen in this case, just giving a scenario. 

Good post.  Thank you.

As to the reply about keeping a senior around,  you goy it, it only applies to situations where the senior will play an important role or not.  Most of the time, its just about moving on and whats best for the team and then the player. For acoach, any coach, the team is his #1 priority.

Wow,  3 days later and a lot of misinformation and speculation is out there.  For one, my son is a junior.  Secondly, I did not even mention anyone's name.  I referred to the program as "warped".  I stand by that comment and will gladly go into any detail or answer any questions in a Private Message - as I have done with 10-12 so far.  Some may feel that "ripping" a program and not providing details is gutless, that is their prerogative, and I am fully aware that this story has invited criticism of my son as a player from many who have never seen him play.  Thirdly, the only reason I posted the end to my son's story is because baseball is his passion in life.  He is a good student, an even better person, and was patently misled during his recruiting process and then witnessed many bizarre events over the last 2.5 years (the 3.5 was from the original post during his senior year in HS).  

For those of you who are interested, getting one at-bat in a JV game burns a year of eligibility and club baseball is more akin to beer-league softball.  It may not meet the bill for my son who has played in state championship games at the highest level at his "crappy New York high school".

As my only son has had his opportunity to play the game competitively taken from him (basically from day 1) at this school, I no longer have any skin in the game.  Therefore, this is my last public post EVER on the HS Baseball Web as I have nothing more to offer since I did virtually everything wrong for my son.  As I said above, the full story is available via Private Message and will be for years as I will check in occasionally on the friends I have made on the forum, as people search the name of the school on this forum.  Thanks to many, particularly Fenway, who tried to help in his journey.  I only hope that I can help others avoid the sense of lost opportunity and guilt that I now harbor over not helping my own son see through the garbage and avoid this situation.

Also, transferring at a high academic D3 level is not really an option for the following reasons:

1.  Since baseball is a Spring sport and most high academics don't cut in the Fall, you may not really know if it isn't working out soon enough to meet transfer deadlines in your freshman year.

2.  When you know in your heart, and teammates (and some assistant coaches) keep telling you you have the talent, work ethic, attitude, and production to contribute where you are, you tend to want to prove it to them (if given an opportunity).

3.  You better have received very good grades (Deans List or better) in the first semester, because the transfer bar at a high academic is much higher than the freshman admit bar.

I am very sorry that things didn't work out for your son, as far as college baseball.  Once again what is important will be his degree earned.  

You came here and started a small paragraph leaving a lot of assumptions, never returned, so you can't really be pissed off at anyone, not sure what you expected.

JMO

HV didn't leave a lot of assumption, people made a lot of assumptions based on his original post. He solicited PMs to share details with those who desired to hear them. Those who made assumptions probably did not take him up on that offer. Finally, he returned one day later and addressed a few of the questions asked on the board. Never seemed to be "pissed off at anyone," as far as I can tell, at least with the folks who responded to his post.

HVBaseballDad,

Thanks for sharing your Tufts experience through a PM.  A PM was the best way to handle and share these details.   I believe every word.  Your son got screwed by a hard selling program that takes exaggeration to a new level.  Plain and simple.  I know the difference between disliking a coach and not respecting a coach as a human being.  

High academic recruits tend to have more than one option when considering their major and college baseball.  If I had a son currently considering Tufts and other high academic schools for baseball, I'd definitley consider others based on your son's experience.   Eight years ago my son was offered by Tufts, and it was 2nd on his list due to its engineering program.  Today, I feel like he dodged a bullet.

I wish you and your son only the best going forward.  You deserve it. 

fenwaysouth posted:

HVBaseballDad,

Thanks for sharing your Tufts experience through a PM.  A PM was the best way to handle and share these details.   I believe every word.  Your son got screwed by a hard selling program that takes exaggeration to a new level.  Plain and simple.  I know the difference between disliking a coach and not respecting a coach as a human being.  

High academic recruits tend to have more than one option when considering their major and college baseball.  If I had a son currently considering Tufts and other high academic schools for baseball, I'd definitley consider others based on your son's experience.   Eight years ago my son was offered by Tufts, and it was 2nd on his list due to its engineering program.  Today, I feel like he dodged a bullet.

I wish you and your son only the best going forward.  You deserve it. 

 

 

Wait, what? cmon on Fenway, TPM and RJM already have run this guy out of town...his kid is obviously not getting it done...Tufts is an amazing institution above reproach and certainly shouldn't be criticized by some mortals who have made it abundantly clear they know nothing about college baseball!!

Are you aware the coach as been there since the 80's?? They are in the NESCAC for godsake...

The kid should just thank the good Lord Tufts let him into school (I am sure he didn't have any  other offers to quality schools) There is to be no name calling from the peasants - just send your children, money and shut the hell up!!

Ok little extreme and some sarcasm but the point is pretty damn accurate! Nobody has ever accused me of being a bleeding heart, I compete every damn to make a living but sometimes this place is just a bit over the top!

One other thing, you can get a quality education, play good baseball, become part of the program and become very successful in life without having to lick the boots of some miserable person posing as a baseball coach.

FWIW, there are plenty of websters here who have not had their kids be 100% happy in their situation. They just didnt advertise it here.  Never. Some moved onto other programs others stayed, some played after college, all got degrees, great ones too from great schools.

This happens to players everyday, they get cut,  they dont like the staff, they manage to move on wirt their lives with or without baseball.

So do the parents.

I didnt run the guy out of town, neither did RJ, he did it himself.

Batty67 posted:

I'd say that HVBASEBALLDAD provided his (very) candid input about a long-term negative experience. And I'd say that folks interested in Tufts would want to see that thread as one perspective to consider (and perhaps discount or ignore) when evaluating Tufts. I know HSBW tries to be positive and give the benefit of the doubt, but it should not strive to be Pollyanna-land either. My two cents.

Well said.  OP was relaying a personal experience... programs with big V and JV rosters should cause any player and parent to temper their expectations. More players tougher to break in, and every experience is not a positive one.  We've all had experience with coaches, this is just at another level.

Good luck to your son HV.  

TPM posted:

...I didnt run the guy out of town, neither did RJ, he did it himself.

I don't think anyone ran him out of town, heck if you can't disappear for 24 hours after making a post on here that is a little controversial without replying to every contradictory post there is a serious problem in how you are prioritizing your time.