Varsity High School Team - 22 players

hshuler posted:

My son plays in the highest classification in Georgia. Our coach is expected to win so he tells parents and players that the best nine will play. 

Last year, we lost in the semis with two seniors, two juniors, two sophomores and three freshmen in the starting lineup. 

This year, we have two seniors, four juniors and three sophomores in the starting lineup. 

He lets the Dugout Club handle all of the off the field duties. He doesn’t know or care who raised the most money, he wants to coach and develop players. 

I’ve seen kids of parents who were heavily involved in volunteering get cut. None of that will determine playing time in his program. 

The AD, who just happens to be a legitimate baseball guy, supports him completely and the kids absolutely love and respect him. 

I guess it’s not the norm everywhere but we feel very fortunate that our son plays for him. 

What you described is absolutely not the norm, and you should feel very fortunate indeed !

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

adbono posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.

You have to be qualified to make the team.  Sophomores on varsity are rare.  At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity.  It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.  

You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud.  It's a GAME!  What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9?  It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.

Yeah, I'm well aware that there are other people besides you that view HS baseball (and other HS sports) as activities - just like going bowling or going to the movies.  And to some extent that's fine.  But you (and like-minded people) should not get the "HS baseball experience" you want at the expense of a more talented younger player that has aspirations beyond HS. Above all, what HS baseball players should be learning is how to compete. This is true regardless of level of ability. When the element of competition is removed from HS sports it diminishes the ability of the participants to learn life lessons as a result of the experience. There is nothing twisted about any of that.

That is what Travel Ball is for.  You aren't removing competition either by playing seniors. Whether they get 1 inning or 30 depends on their work ethic and attitude.

My son, who is going to play baseball in college providing he stays healthy, is learning to wait his turn.  JV season 9th grade he got 19 innings on the mound and 8 at bats....ALL season.  Why? Because the varsity kids playing down and the sophomores had seniority.  I personally liked that life lesson.  There is a pecking order and you haven't made it yet kid.  

Several kids and parents didn't handle that well. One quit mid season, a couple didn't come back this year.  I see a whole new 9th grade class now mumbling while the sophomores are playing. The travel kids who play high level baseball are in shock that they aren't playing every inning...parents are grumbling about playing the best 9....I think this is a pretty big life lesson too. They can choose to have the chip on their shoulders that they are the best that ever played or they can work harder. I live less than 5 miles from East Cobb baseball, no shortage of talent in this area, lots of chips on their shoulders though.

Caco, the bolded is one aspect of your perspective that illustrates why I don't agree with you... If, as you say, seniors (soph's on JV) get priority, then working harder will not help because they are not a senior/soph yet.

Wrong message, wrong lesson but JMO.

The coach decision topic has been beat to death in past threads so I won't expand too much.  Agree with Steve A that there are different philosophies and there isn't necessarily a hard and fast right and wrong.  More important to me is how parents and players react and work with the philosophy in place.

There is one sophomore on Varsity, he plays.  The two MIF's are juniors and D1 commits, they play.  On a squad of 22 players I would estimate that 5 positions rarely change players, they always have those same 5 players out there.  The other positions are up for grabs and will typically go to seniors over juniors.  The juniors will still get playing time but not as much as seniors.  I still say it's not always the best 9, and it shouldn't be in high school.  Travel ball and college are very different.

adbono posted:

hshuler posted:

My son plays in the highest classification in Georgia. Our coach is expected to win so he tells parents and players that the best nine will play. 

Last year, we lost in the semis with two seniors, two juniors, two sophomores and three freshmen in the starting lineup. 

This year, we have two seniors, four juniors and three sophomores in the starting lineup. 

He lets the Dugout Club handle all of the off the field duties. He doesn’t know or care who raised the most money, he wants to coach and develop players. 

I’ve seen kids of parents who were heavily involved in volunteering get cut. None of that will determine playing time in his program. 

The AD, who just happens to be a legitimate baseball guy, supports him completely and the kids absolutely love and respect him. 

I guess it’s not the norm everywhere but we feel very fortunate that our son plays for him. 

What you described is absolutely not the norm, and you should feel very fortunate indeed !

Trust me - I do. 

We have several friends around the country and their sons’ high school experiences cover just about anything that you can think of.

hshuler posted:

My son plays in the highest classification in Georgia. Our coach is expected to win so he tells parents and players that the best nine will play. 

Last year, we lost in the semis with two seniors, two juniors, two sophomores and three freshmen in the starting lineup. 

This year, we have two seniors, four juniors and three sophomores in the starting lineup. 

He lets the Dugout Club handle all of the off the field duties. He doesn’t know or care who raised the most money, he wants to coach and develop players. 

I’ve seen kids of parents who were heavily involved in volunteering get cut. None of that will determine playing time in his program. 

The AD, who just happens to be a legitimate baseball guy, supports him completely and the kids absolutely love and respect him. 

I guess it’s not the norm everywhere but we feel very fortunate that our son plays for him. 

For me, this is how to roll and I would agree. It would be difficult to criticize this framework. Even if you disagree & think otherwise, you would have to respect this approach.

I actually disagree with the best 9 approach for travel ball. In travel ball, you're paying, and plus at any given tournament the "best 9" might (1) already be committed, or (2) not have a coach there to see him at that game, whereas 10, 11, or 12 might have a coach there. Etc. A lot of different factors come into play.

In high school, OTOH, you are trying to win a league title and state title.  It's a team sport in a way that a lot of travel ball is not. And it's not fair to the team, IMHO, to not play the best 9.

Caco3girl wrote : "I still say its not always the best 9. and it shouldn't be in high school."

Maybe you should try REC BASEBALL WEB 

adbono posted:

Caco3girl wrote : "I still say its not always the best 9. and it shouldn't be in high school."

Maybe you should try REC BASEBALL WEB 

And that was helpful how?

2019Dad posted:

I actually disagree with the best 9 approach for travel ball. In travel ball, you're paying, and plus at any given tournament the "best 9" might (1) already be committed, or (2) not have a coach there to see him at that game, whereas 10, 11, or 12 might have a coach there. Etc. A lot of different factors come into play.

In high school, OTOH, you are trying to win a league title and state title.  It's a team sport in a way that a lot of travel ball is not. And it's not fair to the team, IMHO, to not play the best 9.

Yep, kind of by default, don't you think?  You need a larger roster with arms, of which a lot of position players will pitch as well.  With travel you can very easily have how many games in 4 days? 6-9 games depending on size of tourney.  Half the team has to give an inning on the mound which offers up opportunities for the needed back up guys.  Now it's the challenge of the coach to manage his roster.

I get it why some parents still get ticked, to pay that much for fees and travel, and son doesn't see more than a few innings in a four day tournament. Half the time the player knows his role and he's ok with it, he still wants to be on the team. 

This also gets back to the importance of finding teams where your son will see the field (club-travel).  Parents have to do due diligence prior to writing a check.

Will posted:

It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah...........so if you are a senior you play because you are a senior even though the junior is better than the senior?   So I guess making out the lineup card is fairly easy for the coach?  

Last year our coach played seniors over other players who where better.  Some of the these seniors hadn't been regular players in their entire career.  Yet there they where game after game, error after error, and strike out after strike out, playing over better younger players.  It's difficult to watch.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

adbono posted:

Caco3girl wrote : "I still say its not always the best 9. and it shouldn't be in high school."

Maybe you should try REC BASEBALL WEB 

And that was helpful how?

It was a suggestion as to where you might find an audience that would agree with your statement - since this audience clearly doesn't. 

Golfman25 posted:

Will posted:

It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah...........so if you are a senior you play because you are a senior even though the junior is better than the senior?   So I guess making out the lineup card is fairly easy for the coach?  

Last year our coach played seniors over other players who where better.  Some of the these seniors hadn't been regular players in their entire career.  Yet there they where game after game, error after error, and strike out after strike out, playing over better younger players.  It's difficult to watch.  

I have seen a couple seasons of that too.  It is very hard to watch - and I hate watching it.

adbono posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

adbono posted:

Caco3girl wrote : "I still say its not always the best 9. and it shouldn't be in high school."

Maybe you should try REC BASEBALL WEB 

And that was helpful how?

It was a suggestion as to where you might find an audience that would agree with your statement - since this audience clearly doesn't. 

Not everyone disagrees with me, not everyone agrees with me, that's why it is a DISCUSSION board.

adbono posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

adbono posted:

Caco3girl wrote : "I still say its not always the best 9. and it shouldn't be in high school."

Maybe you should try REC BASEBALL WEB 

And that was helpful how?

It was a suggestion as to where you might find an audience that would agree with your statement - since this audience clearly doesn't. 

I can see her point.  There is a level of seniority and pecking order in everything.  The old veteran always gets the benefit of the doubt even when he is past his prime.

To me it all comes down to the coach and communication.  Players and parents can handle honesty.  But once you lie, your doomed.  For example, we had a previous coach keep everybody because he didn't want to let some seniors go -- wanted to give them that final experience on what would be a pretty good team.  But he didn't have enough uniforms, so he gave them warm up tops.  He explained their roles and let them know playing time was obviously real long shot.  Then one day this sophomore kid shows up, all decked out in a varsity uniform.  Rubbed some people the wrong way, because apparently there was an extra uniform lying around.    

How about this one? Son's HS coaches say at the parent meeting: "The backup isn't necessarily on varsity." I have seen a starter get injured and the next game the replacement is the soph or freshman who was starting on JV, not the second-string junior or senior on varsity.  Of course they also say in the parent meeting "if an older player and a younger player are equal in the coaches' eyes, the younger player will get the job."  

2019Dad posted:

How about this one? Son's HS coaches say at the parent meeting: "The backup isn't necessarily on varsity." I have seen a starter get injured and the next game the replacement is the soph or freshman who was starting on JV, not the second-string junior or senior on varsity.  Of course they also say in the parent meeting "if an older player and a younger player are equal in the coaches' eyes, the younger player will get the job."  

Yes, they all SAY that, but they don’t all DO that. 

2019Dad posted:

How about this one? Son's HS coaches say at the parent meeting: "The backup isn't necessarily on varsity." I have seen a starter get injured and the next game the replacement is the soph or freshman who was starting on JV, not the second-string junior or senior on varsity.  Of course they also say in the parent meeting "if an older player and a younger player are equal in the coaches' eyes, the younger player will get the job."  

The bolded statements are interesting.  I agree with the first one in some respects.  I can see carrying some Seniors that probably won't play much because they "paid their dues" even if they came up a little short.  Being the #22 guy on the team is probably not going to diminish the on field talent level in any meaningful way.  That said, a promising young SS isn't going to get a whole lot better sitting next to the #22 senior kid while the #1 SS plays every single game.  

As for playing the younger player over the older player - when equal - would not always be my first choice.  To begin with, I probably wouldn't want some freshman playing instead of a senior - the freshman probably plays JV to start the year and maybe gets pulled up if needed.  Now, assuming Junior and Senior are competing, then I would either determine which one actually contributes more (figure out how to break the tie) or play the senior.  A senior riding the bench because of some Junior has the same talent isn't really going to work extra hard.  That Junior just might work harder and try to steal that spot.  Tie goes to the upperclassman assuming all other things equal (which they never really are).

2017LHPscrewball posted:

2019Dad posted:

How about this one? Son's HS coaches say at the parent meeting: "The backup isn't necessarily on varsity." I have seen a starter get injured and the next game the replacement is the soph or freshman who was starting on JV, not the second-string junior or senior on varsity.  Of course they also say in the parent meeting "if an older player and a younger player are equal in the coaches' eyes, the younger player will get the job."  

The bolded statements are interesting.  I agree with the first one in some respects.  I can see carrying some Seniors that probably won't play much because they "paid their dues" even if they came up a little short.  Being the #22 guy on the team is probably not going to diminish the on field talent level in any meaningful way.  That said, a promising young SS isn't going to get a whole lot better sitting next to the #22 senior kid while the #1 SS plays every single game.  

As for playing the younger player over the older player - when equal - would not always be my first choice.  To begin with, I probably wouldn't want some freshman playing instead of a senior - the freshman probably plays JV to start the year and maybe gets pulled up if needed.  Now, assuming Junior and Senior are competing, then I would either determine which one actually contributes more (figure out how to break the tie) or play the senior.  A senior riding the bench because of some Junior has the same talent isn't really going to work extra hard.  That Junior just might work harder and try to steal that spot.  Tie goes to the upperclassman assuming all other things equal (which they never really are).

I don’t care if that senior doesn’t work hard in your example above. I want to be better year in and year out. You know who sees that senior riding the pine in favor of the junior? The freshmen and sophomores. Those are the guys you want to have hungry and working hard. If that senior wanted to work hard to ensure he got playing time, his senior season certainly isn’t the time to finally learn that lesson. As an 8th grader, you better know who is ahead of you on the freshman and JV teams and set your sights on beating them out the day you walk on campus. Always hungry, no excuses.

Tie goes to the younger player because he'll have more time in the program and thus more time to improve. That's the rationale my son's coaches provided. They also say "Program - Team - Player, in that order" -- and the tie going to the younger player is better for the program (since he has more time to improve and help future teams), and neutral to the team (since it's a tie currently).

2019Dad posted:

Tie goes to the younger player because he'll have more time in the program and thus more time to improve. That's the rationale my son's coaches provided. They also say "Program - Team - Player, in that order" -- and the tie going to the younger player is better for the program (since he has more time to improve and help future teams), and neutral to the team (since it's a tie currently).

Never happening in our program, or any I’m familiar with.  Similar skills/tools the Senior is Playing.

This is an outlier.  IMO

Cubs vs Brewers on top 8, 1-2

Just out of curiosity, for the "seniors-paid-their-dues" camp, in your opinion would the same rationale apply to a college baseball team and, if not, why not?

In both cases, the majority of the team is not going to play baseball after the current level.* In both cases, the seniors have "paid their dues" and devoted years to the program. In both cases, there are summer baseball opportunities that could provide underclassmen other avenues for playing time. 

*Yes, there are a few college programs where the majority of kids get drafted, but there are also some high schools where the majority of kids go on to play in college.

2019Dad posted:

Just out of curiosity, for the "seniors-paid-their-dues" camp, in your opinion would the same rationale apply to a college baseball team and, if not, why not?

In both cases, the majority of the team is not going to play baseball after the current level.* In both cases, the seniors have "paid their dues" and devoted years to the program. In both cases, there are summer baseball opportunities that could provide underclassmen other avenues for playing time. 

*Yes, there are a few college programs where the majority of kids get drafted, but there are also some high schools where the majority of kids go on to play in college.

Well said, agree with your points. It sounds like those in favor of seniority winning the job either have seniors who are in a position because of seniority system or they project their Underclass men to be beaten out by the kids behind them. And for the calcium carbonate girl, nobody, and I mean nobody, can guarantee their sophomore player will play in college...unless you are a college coach and plan on putting them on your roster. Having that expectation is dangerous and often leads to disappointment.

GaryMe posted:

2019Dad posted:

Just out of curiosity, for the "seniors-paid-their-dues" camp, in your opinion would the same rationale apply to a college baseball team and, if not, why not?

In both cases, the majority of the team is not going to play baseball after the current level.* In both cases, the seniors have "paid their dues" and devoted years to the program. In both cases, there are summer baseball opportunities that could provide underclassmen other avenues for playing time. 

*Yes, there are a few college programs where the majority of kids get drafted, but there are also some high schools where the majority of kids go on to play in college.

Well said, agree with your points. It sounds like those in favor of seniority winning the job either have seniors who are in a position because of seniority system or they project their Underclass men to be beaten out by the kids behind them. And for the calcium carbonate girl, nobody, and I mean nobody, can guarantee their sophomore player will play in college...unless you are a college coach and plan on putting them on your roster. Having that expectation is dangerous and often leads to disappointment.

If he's healthy, which is the qualifier I used above, I see no reason why he wouldn't play in college.

As for the senior in college scenario, no, not the same.  High School is something everyone has a shot at attending, not so much with college.! The HS coaches are paid to be a mentor and a leader, and hopefully win.  College coaches are paid to win, PERIOD.  If you get one that also wants to be a mentor then you have hit the lottery.  

Look, here is the deal. There are competitive HS baseball programs and there are non-competitive programs. If your kid is districted for a HS that is a competitive program, you better make sure Johnny’s stuff is tight going in as a Frosh, or else he may be transferring to a less competitive HS for the chance to make that roster. I see kids every year who will transfer just because they aren’t good enough for school “A,” but they are a stud at school “B.” Know the environment. Don’t go in with an attitude of entitlement. If your kid wants to play at the college level or beyond, you better be training a competitor from age 10 on.

GaryMe posted:

Look, here is the deal. There are competitive HS baseball programs and there are non-competitive programs. If your kid is districted for a HS that is a competitive program, you better make sure Johnny’s stuff is tight going in as a Frosh, or else he may be transferring to a less competitive HS for the chance to make that roster. I see kids every year who will transfer just because they aren’t good enough for school “A,” but they are a stud at school “B.” Know the environment. Don’t go in with an attitude of entitlement. If your kid wants to play at the college level or beyond, you better be training a competitor from age 10 on.

7A (largest division) school, No 9th grade team but made JV as a freshman, Varsity made it to the state championship game, over half of the seniors usually go on to play in college, a few have been drafted, he's been in Mid to high level travel ball in the Atlanta area since he was 9, and current travel coach is a JUCO head coach...so I'm going with check, check, check and check for the path to college...IF he remains healthy.

CaCO3Girl posted:

GaryMe posted:

Look, here is the deal. There are competitive HS baseball programs and there are non-competitive programs. If your kid is districted for a HS that is a competitive program, you better make sure Johnny’s stuff is tight going in as a Frosh, or else he may be transferring to a less competitive HS for the chance to make that roster. I see kids every year who will transfer just because they aren’t good enough for school “A,” but they are a stud at school “B.” Know the environment. Don’t go in with an attitude of entitlement. If your kid wants to play at the college level or beyond, you better be training a competitor from age 10 on.

7A (largest division) school, No 9th grade team but made JV as a freshman, Varsity made it to the state championship game, over half of the seniors usually go on to play in college, a few have been drafted, he's been in Mid to high level travel ball in the Atlanta area since he was 9, and current travel coach is a JUCO head coach...so I'm going with check, check, check and check for the path to college...IF he remains healthy.

Mmm hmmm....

What is the objective of the baseball program? To develop players for College or to "WIN" all the games. Both can be accomplished with a "fair" system of practice in game situations.

I previously suggest daily games [Varsity and JV] with Double DH, 6 outs per inning, coaches pitching. Keep records of each AB, each pitch, errors.

Use RBI's per time AB, BA, to determine your line up for next scheduled game.

Coach, you have no questions from parents. This is based on facts, not 6th sense. In addition you develop a team concept where anyone in a "hot" streak can make a start.  You can team pitch. Your stronger pitcher finishes the game. use extra player/pitchers in the middle of the game. Watch a game there will be 3 times in 7 innings, when the game can be lost or won.

Be prepared to gain the edge with the right "call" to your defense or offense in the 3 situations.

Bob

Bob, I like your idea but in our HS system it wouldn't work well.  Both V and JV have three games per week.  Can't waste the pitchers.  

Use the coaches to pitch or a athletic parent [he will need a screen]!!!! Do you have Womans baseball program in your area?

Bob

Consultant posted:

Use the coaches to pitch or a athletic parent [he will need a screen]!!!! Do you have Womans baseball program in your area?

Bob

 

Coaches pitch about 60, lol, so not helpful.  No girls baseball, only softball sadly.

Move to 40' use a screen. Track every pitch that is hit.

this is our weekly practice with the JC. Do you have a college in your area?

scriminage their extra players!

Bob

One more comment about senior playing ahead of junior.  First off, I don't have that situation so it is not some personal philosophy hoping to keep my kid on the field.  As for two players being equal, this almost never happens so the argument is somewhat hypothetical.  Assuming that is the case, I would still play the senior as I believe this would be the most beneficial to the program.  I understand the concept of allowing the junior additional development and contributing more next season, but I also see making the junior continue to work to gain a spot, whether permanent or part time.  If you pass on the senior, my experience is that that senior is probably not going to be the best person to then push the junior to improve.  I personally do not think you can easily strip out high school dynamics from most high school baseball programs.  There may be some ultra-competitive schools where high school dynamics has zero impact on the program, but for 95% of high school programs, this is the case.

I have seen where there might be a freshman that should be on the varsity team, but in very few case is that freshman going to be able to deal with getting put into that situaion.  Sure, if he is on the field and the ball gets hit to him, he will probably make the play.  But, sitting in the dugout next to some guys 3-4 years older than him having their usual conversation (and all the other athletic and social interactions) is not something that will benefit the team in the long run. 

I am trying to make the factual argument that playing the senior can be a better choice, not saying the senior plays based on seniority alone.  If anyone disagrees, please feel free to comment (and give some insight into how this impacts the team when the senior - who in this argument is just as good 100% across the board - gets dumped in favor of the younger player).  If anyone feels like throwing out the participation trophy argument again, please save the effort for a more appropriate time.

I can see both sides from a purely competitive standpoint, but simply see more benefit in going with the senior.

Gov posted:

2019Dad posted:

Tie goes to the younger player because he'll have more time in the program and thus more time to improve. That's the rationale my son's coaches provided. They also say "Program - Team - Player, in that order" -- and the tie going to the younger player is better for the program (since he has more time to improve and help future teams), and neutral to the team (since it's a tie currently).

Never happening in our program, or any I’m familiar with.  Similar skills/tools the Senior is Playing.

This is an outlier.  IMO

Cubs vs Brewers on top 8, 1-2

I think that is the case because there is no such thing as a tie.  If anything, the Senior has 1 more year on the earth than the younger player.  1 more year of experience and maturity.  That should count for something.  

Golfman25 posted:

Gov posted:

2019Dad posted:

Tie goes to the younger player because he'll have more time in the program and thus more time to improve. That's the rationale my son's coaches provided. They also say "Program - Team - Player, in that order" -- and the tie going to the younger player is better for the program (since he has more time to improve and help future teams), and neutral to the team (since it's a tie currently).

Never happening in our program, or any I’m familiar with.  Similar skills/tools the Senior is Playing.

This is an outlier.  IMO

Cubs vs Brewers on top 8, 1-2

I think that is the case because there is no such thing as a tie.  If anything, the Senior has 1 more year on the earth than the younger player.  1 more year of experience and maturity.  That should count for something.  

If it’s a close race, I think the coach should attempt to give equal reps and hopefully, someone will “earn” the job. 

At any rate, I would think a senior would get first consideration.  If he doesn't pan out or the underclassman proves to be better, then the younger player should get a shot.   At least, that's the way it worked back when I played HS football 38 years ago.

hshuler posted:

Golfman25 posted:

Gov posted:

2019Dad posted:

Tie goes to the younger player because he'll have more time in the program and thus more time to improve. That's the rationale my son's coaches provided. They also say "Program - Team - Player, in that order" -- and the tie going to the younger player is better for the program (since he has more time to improve and help future teams), and neutral to the team (since it's a tie currently).

Never happening in our program, or any I’m familiar with.  Similar skills/tools the Senior is Playing.

This is an outlier.  IMO

Cubs vs Brewers on top 8, 1-2

I think that is the case because there is no such thing as a tie.  If anything, the Senior has 1 more year on the earth than the younger player.  1 more year of experience and maturity.  That should count for something.  

If it’s a close race, I think the coach should attempt to give equal reps and hopefully, someone will “earn” the job. 

Now there's a position that is hard to argue.  The seniority vs develop for the future of the program both have merit but you really need to dig deeper.  At the end of the day, one will win out and help the team more. 

I have a senior who is solid as a rock with practice reps and a very upstanding citizen.  Every year, we see him and think he finally has it together and is ready to hold that starting role and contribute (based on spring practice performance).  Then we start playing games.  The wheels fall off mentally for him.  Freshman and sophomore kids eat his lunch with their game performances.  

Each situation is different.  If there is a tie, dig deeper until the tie is broken.  It may change next week but that's next week.  For some, yes, that senior experience will show in game situations.  For some, the younger guys have actually played more highly competitive ball or have slight mechanical advantages that will show against better competition.  The points of separation can manifest themselves in a thousand different ways.  A parent will, by nature, have their lens adjusted to those points that their own kid excels at.  A coach has to try to look at all and make the call for that day, even if the assessment comparison score is 501-499.

Cabbage Dad:

when we travel to Australia with our American Goodwill team. The players meet for one practice and the player's ability needs a quick evaluation. If a player has average talent, we start this player every game for one at bat. This allows the players to gain confidence and contribute.

It is the 5th to the 7th inning that determines the outcome. With pitchers we have pitch the 1st and 2nd innings.

Bob

cabbagedad posted:

hshuler posted:

Golfman25 posted:

Gov posted:

2019Dad posted:

Tie goes to the younger player because he'll have more time in the program and thus more time to improve. That's the rationale my son's coaches provided. They also say "Program - Team - Player, in that order" -- and the tie going to the younger player is better for the program (since he has more time to improve and help future teams), and neutral to the team (since it's a tie currently).

Never happening in our program, or any I’m familiar with.  Similar skills/tools the Senior is Playing.

This is an outlier.  IMO

Cubs vs Brewers on top 8, 1-2

I think that is the case because there is no such thing as a tie.  If anything, the Senior has 1 more year on the earth than the younger player.  1 more year of experience and maturity.  That should count for something.  

If it’s a close race, I think the coach should attempt to give equal reps and hopefully, someone will “earn” the job. 

Now there's a position that is hard to argue.  The seniority vs develop for the future of the program both have merit but you really need to dig deeper.  At the end of the day, one will win out and help the team more. 

I have a senior who is solid as a rock with practice reps and a very upstanding citizen.  Every year, we see him and think he finally has it together and is ready to hold that starting role and contribute (based on spring practice performance).  Then we start playing games.  The wheels fall off mentally for him.  Freshman and sophomore kids eat his lunch with their game performances.  

Each situation is different.  If there is a tie, dig deeper until the tie is broken.  It may change next week but that's next week.  For some, yes, that senior experience will show in game situations.  For some, the younger guys have actually played more highly competitive ball or have slight mechanical advantages that will show against better competition.  The points of separation can manifest themselves in a thousand different ways.  A parent will, by nature, have their lens adjusted to those points that their own kid excels at.  A coach has to try to look at all and make the call for that day, even if the assessment comparison score is 501-499.

“Then we start playing games. The wheels fall off mentally for him.”

Cabbage - I have seen this in all sports over the years. Some kids can never seem to relax enough to get it done in games. 

Then, you have some kids who aren’t practice players but are gamers. 

I guess that’s why coaches get paid the big bucks. :-)

Why not just simply play the player who gives your team the best opportunity to win? Of course you hope it's the kid who has been with you the longest. You hope it's the kid that works the hardest. You hope its the kid that has invested the most.

I just can't remember a time when 2 guys were equal. Yes sometimes there isn't much of a difference. But there is always something that will separate them. Sometimes one will have the upper hand and then the other will grab it. Sometimes it kind of goes back and forth. But in your heart just play the player you believe honestly gives you the best opportunity to win that day.

If you do anything other than that you are not doing your job imo.

Coach_May posted:

Why not just simply play the player who gives your team the best opportunity to win? Of course you hope it's the kid who has been with you the longest. You hope it's the kid that works the hardest. You hope its the kid that has invested the most.

I just can't remember a time when 2 guys were equal. Yes sometimes there isn't much of a difference. But there is always something that will separate them. Sometimes one will have the upper hand and then the other will grab it. Sometimes it kind of goes back and forth. But in your heart just play the player you believe honestly gives you the best opportunity to win that day.

If you do anything other than that you are not doing your job imo.

“If you do anything other than that you are not doing your job imo”

Finally, the nail has been hit squarely on the head! 

Any more than 14 and you are pandering to parents.    If you have PO's carry no more than 3 then the rest are position players.  You need 

4 Outfielders(2 CF min) - 4 Infielders(2 SS min) - 3 Catchers who can play 1B/3B 

If you play 30 Games in a season -  You need to cover 200 IP  and you probably only have 900 PA's

Your 3 best pitchers get 140 Innings  So you have 60 left (3 Guys).  Your top 7 Hitter get 700 PA's you only have 200 left  (5 Guys)   - Guaranteed 3 of your top 6 pitchers are everyday players.

High school Baseball is 4 Weeks Pre-Season 7-8 Weeks Regular season.  75% of teams are out after the second tournament game.   Asking a kid to give up 200+ hours and then not giving them innings or PA's is really a waste of time.     Summer ball is different you play 11+ Weekends  and you can play 6-8 Games per week.  you need extra bodies  especially Catchers and Pitchers.  So a quality PO in summer is Gold.