"my son is 6'1" and a skinny 150"
My son weighed less than yours and looked like a string when he first hit 90mph. So, gaining weight/strength won't hurt, but it's not the golden route to 85+. Technique is almost everything.
Velocity opens doors.
Goosegg posted:Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.
The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong.
kids grow at different ages you just never know, 1st rd pick of the Astros last yr was throwing low 70s as a freshman, was hitting 97 last yr as a senior in high school. so you just have to patient.
CaCO3Girl posted:Goosegg posted:Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.
The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong.
Not too many 2020's just yet and then 2020's that are showing committed are phenoms. PG is showing a grand total of 303 commitments for 2019 and I would assume fewer than 50 are listed for 2020. It seems like way too many "facts" are getting based on committing as a rising sophomore to a top 25 team (not even counting the Power 5 cellar dwellers). Even if you construct your facts around the 50th percentile of D1 pitchers, Goosegg's comment has a lot of merit (even more if you substitute 14 yo). The couple of 2019 pitcher commits were basically all 16 yo and up with one kid already 17 1/2.
2020Mom, my humble advice...
- Don't sweat it. Your son is in a rare demographic. He throws left, pitches, and is in the 99th percentile in height. That doesn't guarantee success, but it sure puts the odds in his favor. He's also very young compared to the kid he will be competing with in the 2020 college recruiting class. I would not rush him along. Make sure his conditioning is appropriate to his level of physical maturity.
- Take Goosegg up on his offer of a PM.
gunner34 posted:My son has always been one of the hardest throwers in his age group, he's thrown 82 recently as a 14 yr old 8th grader. Our future high school pitching coach reached out to us when he heard we were going to attend his school next year and invited my son to do a weighted ball workout that he's been doing with his high school and travel team pitcher during the month of Dec and Jan. Ill let you know how it goes, its been tough to stay on program we seem to miss 1 or 2 day every week for 1 reason or another but I think its helping. at a minimum it seems hes getting his arm in shape for the spring season about to start down here in Texas like tomorrow. It was interesting when coach pulled out the radar the other day and was getting times for every color ball the intensity really picked up. Everyone complained of being sore the next day, as an aside from a different thread I picked up a marc pro on ebay for about 1/2 cost of a new one and my son used it that night and was only kid the next day that was not sore.
Manage your son closely... Coaches have good intentions but unless they're teaching the correct protocols and the player is following the protocol to the detail you can run into arm issues. Whether it's weighted ball or bands.
Our club baseball program went big on the weighted ball program 2 years ago and disbanded it after only a year. The reason: a few kids hurt their arms and they think it's because the kids started doing their own versions of the weighted ball program, and the program didn't want the risk. Good intentions, but too many young kids without the maturity and discipline to follow the procedures, and they lacked the physical strength to put their bodies in the correct position to execttue the moves. Our baseball program now focuses on dedicated strength training applicable for baseball and long toss. A few of the kids that had success with the weighted ball program now do it as a supplement to their development at another facility where the pitching instructor is dialed into the protocols, arm care, and throwing is his thing (smaller version of Texas B. Ranch or Driveline).
MidAtlanticDad posted:2020Mom, my humble advice...
- Don't sweat it. Your son is in a rare demographic. He throws left, pitches, and is in the 99th percentile in height. That doesn't guarantee success, but it sure puts the odds in his favor. He's also very young compared to the kid he will be competing with in the 2020 college recruiting class. I would not rush him along. Make sure his conditioning is appropriate to his level of physical maturity.
- Take Goosegg up on his offer of a PM.
Concur.
2017LHPscrewball posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Goosegg posted:Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.
The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong.
Not too many 2020's just yet and then 2020's that are showing committed are phenoms. PG is showing a grand total of 303 commitments for 2019 and I would assume fewer than 50 are listed for 2020. It seems like way too many "facts" are getting based on committing as a rising sophomore to a top 25 team (not even counting the Power 5 cellar dwellers). Even if you construct your facts around the 50th percentile of D1 pitchers, Goosegg's comment has a lot of merit (even more if you substitute 14 yo). The couple of 2019 pitcher commits were basically all 16 yo and up with one kid already 17 1/2.
My son is a 2020, I know just locally more than 20 kids that have offers, and I don't know that many people. It would appear to me that MANY offers are going out based on projection and people are being smart and saying "No, we aren't ready yet."
If anyone wants to give the advice to take things slow, let the body progress naturally, don't base projections of what you think your kid will be doing in 12thgrade off of what he is doing in 9th grade... I am 100% good with that. However, the idea that NO college coach cares what a 15 year old is throwing is false. They have to care, it's their job to care.
The time is now. Once you get to high school your time is running short quickly. Now is when you should be asking the questions of what you have to do to get velocity up so that come junior year it IS up! The great ones will already be offered to by then. Many committed. If you are not getting an offer as a freshman it tells you they do not consider you elite. If you are not even getting mild interest it tells you they don't consider you at all! Need to have some interest by end of sophomore year or you can definitely consider yourself behind the 8 ball. Remember you might get one year of a huge jump, maybe 7 or 8mph. Probably not two. The rest of the way through hs you may get 2-3. So if you are say 75 as a freshman... Then 82 as a soph, 85 as a junior you are definitely on the bubble and definitely waiting til senior season - most spots are long since gone by then. Now you are lowering your sights. So NOW is the time to get those MPH!!
I don't know anything about pitching, never have and probably never will so I have no idea what it takes to gain velocity...but using weighted balls is liking throwing a curve ball from what I've heard. If you do it right, probably not much of a risk but if you do it wrong, you might want to have Dr. Andrews number handy.
SultanofSwat posted:"my son is 6'1" and a skinny 150"
My son weighed less than yours and looked like a string when he first hit 90mph. So, gaining weight/strength won't hurt, but it's not the golden route to 85+. Technique is almost everything.
Velocity opens doors.
Likewise, my son was a true 6.0' and a skinny 145 and has always strove to be "bigger" (like when he was little after weighing in at the doctor's office at 43 lbs and telling the doctor of his goal . . . "I want to be 50 lbs."). As a HS freshman he was sitting at 79-80 and touching 82 (and keep in mind, this wasn't throwing all out as hard as he could, but more like 90% to maintain command). He got here because the year before we worked a lot on his mechanics and (in our case) never worked on strength and conditioning as I just felt it wasn't that important at that stage. He was already VERY athletic and had a strong and flexible core. His HS had a specified strength and conditioning facility and coaching that was mainly directed towards football, but baseball players would take part and later in HS my son got serious about that and the nutrition that needs to go along with it. By his senior year he grew to 6'2" and 185 lbs and his pitching was sitting at 90 and touching 93.
He was a two way player SS/RHP with most of his interest for playing SS. He was recruited for both way and turned down a draft as a pitcher to play SS at dream school college. As he entered college he felt his size still wasn't enough and he wanted to be "bigger", though he was touching 94 his college freshman year. His body had matured and as he increased his caloric intake and lots of strength and conditioning, height didn't increase but he got up to his goal of 205 lbs. in the sophomore year. IMHO, I don't feel that weight was good for him and it seemed to slow his agility down a bit defensively sprinting wise and he has a hard time maintaining any weight over 200 lbs.
After listening to and speaking with Tom House at a baseball coaches convention, he inspired me to focus on my son's mechanics. And I'm strongly convinced that mechanics/technique is indeed "almost everything" . . . particularly at these younger ages. I believe focusing on it early certainly worked well for my son.
"The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong."
Did I miss that the NCAA now has NLI's for freshman or sophomores?
Do you understand what those early commitments are worth?
Many posters here have tried to explain how the system works; yet, you keep going to the same watering trough of looking at what A PLAYER does - not what THE SCHOOL does.
Let me put it this way: 2020A throws 85 at a showcase and a coach approaches his naive parents, throws an unenforceable offer in front of them, and gets a "comittment." 2020B is busy working on his mechanics and conditioning and has no idea what his velo is (but, let's say 72), and attends no showcases. Junior year arrives. 2020A is throwing 85 at his umpteenth showcase. 2020B shows up for the first time and throws 89.
What do you think happens? To the coaches it's a business, it's not personal.
Stop living in fear that the train is leaving the station without your sons. While the coaches are indeed throwing "offers" around, each knows that the "offers" will only turn enforceable if the player appears to be able to contribute to the program. It's a brutal world for the kid who has been maneuvered out of his unenforceable offer - and coaches are experts at the maneuver.
In other words, that early offer is meaningful ONLY if the player continues on the path the coach projected; if not, the player will be replaced by one who is on a path to help the program. So, if you want to push that kid who isn't physically ready, who doesn't have the proper mechanics, who gets injured because of all that, fine - one less player in the game of musical chairs.
As for attention from pro scouts, while I am at a HS game scouting a senior, yes, attention will be paid to an incredible underclassman. But all I do is write his name down and file it (along with the velo); the kid gets no credit for his FB velo - because it just doesn't matter until draft year. And, if he was 88 as a junior, he better be more than that as a senior.
Now, from all my posts, you do understand that I feel velo is king. But you can't get there without following a long, hard road which has no shortcuts and which cannot be forced. All you can do is prepare the body for the time the entire chain is ready to come together - some parts of the chain can be worked on early (mechanics, PT, game IQ); other parts can't (growth, physical maturity). Forcing the issue doesn't move the goal closer - it may even foreclose the goal.
As always, the original question turns into an debate about another topic...Time to stop following this thread...
Goosegg posted:"The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong."
Did I miss that the NCAA now has NLI's for freshman or sophomores?
Do you understand what those early commitments are worth?
Many posters here have tried to explain how the system works; yet, you keep going to the same watering trough of looking at what A PLAYER does - not what THE SCHOOL does.
Let me put it this way: 2020A throws 85 at a showcase and a coach approaches his naive parents, throws an unenforceable offer in front of them, and gets a "comittment." 2020B is busy working on his mechanics and conditioning and has no idea what his velo is (but, let's say 72), and attends no showcases. Junior year arrives. 2020A is throwing 85 at his umpteenth showcase. 2020B shows up for the first time and throws 89.
What do you think happens? To the coaches it's a business, it's not personal.
Stop living in fear that the train is leaving the station without your sons. While the coaches are indeed throwing "offers" around, each knows that the "offers" will only turn enforceable if the player appears to be able to contribute to the program. It's a brutal world for the kid who has been maneuvered out of his unenforceable offer - and coaches are experts at the maneuver.
In other words, that early offer is meaningful ONLY if the player continues on the path the coach projected; if not, the player will be replaced by one who is on a path to help the program. So, if you want to push that kid who isn't physically ready, who doesn't have the proper mechanics, who gets injured because of all that, fine - one less player in the game of musical chairs.
As for attention from pro scouts, while I am at a HS game scouting a senior, yes, attention will be paid to an incredible underclassman. But all I do is write his name down and file it (along with the velo); the kid gets no credit for his FB velo - because it just doesn't matter until draft year. And, if he was 88 as a junior, he better be more than that as a senior.
Now, from all my posts, you do understand that I feel velo is king. But you can't get there without following a long, hard road which has no shortcuts and which cannot be forced. All you can do is prepare the body for the time the entire chain is ready to come together - some parts of the chain can be worked on early (mechanics, PT, game IQ); other parts can't (growth, physical maturity). Forcing the issue doesn't move the goal closer - it may even foreclose the goal.
I agree with everything you have said in THIS post. I was pointing out the flaw in your previous post.
College coaches do care what 15 year olds are throwing...not many 15 year olds... and if your 15 year old isn't throwing 80 that doesn't mean anything long term, and if your 15 year old IS throwing 90 again, that doesn't mean anything long term.
I do understand what you are saying and agree with the principles you have stated, just not that ONE line.
"College coaches do care what 15 year olds are throwing...not many 15 year olds... and if your 15 year old isn't throwing 80 that doesn't mean anything long term, and if your 15 year old IS throwing 90 again, that doesn't mean anything long term."
No, college coaches have parents thinking they care. The coaches know that it's Kabuki theater, know it's illusory, and know that's how the recruiting game is currently played - and the parents and players are worse off for that.
Goosegg posted:"Stop living in fear that the train is leaving the station without your sons. While the coaches are indeed throwing "offers" around, each knows that the "offers" will only turn enforceable if the player appears to be able to contribute to the program. It's a brutal world for the kid who has been maneuvered out of his unenforceable offer - and coaches are experts at the maneuver.
Yo, i did that...folks, please listen...step away from the trough.
As far as the Velo, big D1s didn't really pay attention to my undersized, "max effort" kid until he hit 90 consistently his Junior HS season. He had lived in the weight room for the previous 6 months and squatting became his 2nd love. It didn't hurt to have a + curveball. Otherwise, he was just another short RHP toiling away chasing the dream.Take care of his arm/health, research alot and ask questions along the way.
I wish you and your son much success.
I guess we all want to think our kid is "Elite" and wonder why he doesn't have an offer to the power 5 school in 8th grade. Having been on here for several years now, I think the majority of kids are well outside that demographic. Most people on here are here to help there kid play baseball as long as they can, where ever they can. This gets back to the "dream school" discussion, early offers, and all the other things that go into this baseball recruiting world. What is great about this site is that whatever level your kid is at and whatever level of "recruit" he may be, there is someone on here who has been there/done that. It is really hard, but let the situation play out. Get good coaching, work on mechanics, get stronger etc. Control the things you can control and if all goes well, they can continue to play beyond high school if that is the dream. For others it may be to just be part of the high school team. Whatever the goal, enjoy the ride and try not to force it. It really does go fast...
As I said, my son never used the weighted ball program, but someone earlier in this thread said their coach pulled out a radar gun had the kids throw weighted balls and everyone was sore the next day. I've never heard of anyone using a gun with weighted balls.
Buckeye 2015 posted:As I said, my son never used the weighted ball program, but someone earlier in this thread said their coach pulled out a radar gun had the kids throw weighted balls and everyone was sore the next day. I've never heard of anyone using a gun with weighted balls.
Scary visual
Actually both Driveline and Baseball Ranch both use the gun with weighted balls. I believe both overload and underloadRemember these programs are all about tracking and measuring progress. There are lots of impacts on the athlete's mental game as well and progress tracking plays a big part here too.
I've seen the impacts on my son physically, mentally, and pitch quality. I'm a big believer. It will be the future IMO