Velocity, God given? Or can it be drastically improved?

Consultant posted:

Do not be concern about "pop" time, it creates one handed "lazy" catchers who cannot block the pitchers curve ball. When you "warm" up - practice catching the thrown ball on the heal of your mitt. This allows a quick transfer into the throwing hand. Infielders also should practice.

Question: do you use a Easton catchers mitt?

Bob

I'm not sure how it creates "lazy" catchers per say. I am more focused on blocking the pictures curve ball then throwing the runner out if I have to choose between the two. and I do not have an Easton mitt, I had All Star 

SultanofSwat posted:

Velocity = technique + mass

Mass is easy, but the technique is elusive

Can you go farther in depth? 

What do you guys think of using weighted baseballs to develop arm strength? 

No, no, no. Are you a "shot put"

Bob

Kyle Boddy posted:

I honestly doubt you threw a verified 1.8. The average pop time for elite MLB catchers is in the high 1.8X range. There's no one here to impress, most of us are ex-coaches and parents of once (and still) very good baseball players. 

The best thing you can do for your career is to be honest with yourself and your current abilities. 

Kyle ,

i agree with your statement , and I always wonder why I see at showcases -1.8s or even 1.7s and 1.9s for some kids .  I wonder if the one doing the timing is accurate ?  

Is there a definition for a "legal" pop time calculation?  I know the basics, but are there some rules that prohibit the catcher from starting his move long before the ball ever reaches the mitt?  I think I remember seeing some comments here about how catchers "cheat" when it comes to having pop times timed in a showcase type setting (for instance their already standing on the plate when they receive the baseball).

It is helpful for catchers to know their pop times and their velocity.  Both are important!  Some need more improvement in catch and throw technique, others need more improvement on arm strength.  The best catchers are good at both.

Pop times will always be better in workouts than games.  In games the catcher is receiving live in game pitches with a hitter that is likely to swing. In workouts, the catcher is receiving BP slow fastballs mostly thrown right down the middle and no worry about the hitter swinging.

Typically catchers pop times in the 1.8s during workouts would be 2.0 or more during games.  We try to get all in game pop times, but sometimes it just doesn't present itself.  And good in game pop times can be the result of the type of pitch and location of that pitch.

Maybe the most neglected thing to evaluate is foot work.  But in the end if you lack the necessary velocity you will never reach the highest level.  Most all high level catchers have very strong arms.  Sometimes they are former pitchers and shortstops.

Topic near and dear to my heart as my son is a 2017 catcher. Looking at D2s and D3s given his size (5'10" 170lbs). Personally, I think hand-measured pop-times can easily help--or hinder--a given throw by as much as 0.2 seconds. So a kid throwing 2.05 consistently can get an artifact 2.2 or a 1.9. It all averages out in theory, but at a busy combine the 2.05 can get a 2.1, 2.1, and 2.2. Or get a 1.95, 2.0, 2.0. You can see which is better. My son has done two, 10-week weighted ball regimens to increase his positional velo to 74-75 (tops) and pops to 2.0-2.05 or so. He's worked hard and transfers and footwork are good but I don't think any amount of training is going to get close to an 80 positional or legitimate, non-artifact 1.9 pop-time. That's genetics. But he does run a legitimate sub-7.0 60 (6.95 or so), he's a tremendous defensive catcher, and a very solid LD-hitting lefty hitter so I hope he gets a D2/D3 offer at a school he wants. Might not happen though. Very good grades so big school (bias for a few big Virginia state colleges) and club baseball might be in the cards.

Batty,

Hope my post didn't bother you.  Mid 70s isn't bad at all, upper 70s is good and 80 or better is outstanding.  Arm strength can be improved with age and work.  80 or better is far from impossible.  If he has quick feet and quick release with some accuracy, he has a chance to play most anywhere. If he can hit, run and receive, he can play at a high level.  Remember that many players develop a lot while they are in college.

I agree with you about hand held times.  We usually have at least three timers.  Most all the time they are within a tenth, but not always.  Truth is I like the eye test better.  The guys that can really catch and throw just standout, you don't need a time or radar gun reading to pick those guys out.  But others that aren't there to see it, want to know the numbers.

PGStaff posted:

Batty,

Hope my post didn't bother you.  Mid 70s isn't bad at all, upper 70s is good and 80 or better is outstanding.  Arm strength can be improved with age and work.  80 or better is far from impossible.  If he has quick feet and quick release with some accuracy, he has a chance to play most anywhere. If he can hit, run and receive, he can play at a high level.  Remember that many players develop a lot while they are in college.

I agree with you about hand held times.  We usually have at least three timers.  Most all the time they are within a tenth, but not always.  Truth is I like the eye test better.  The guys that can really catch and throw just standout, you don't need a time or radar gun reading to pick those guys out.  But others that aren't there to see it, want to know the numbers.

I agree with PGStaff. My velocity 2 years ago was 75. I am not sure what it is now. I have quick feet, and I am accurate. I also am able to block and receive. Would the other assets besides pop time and arm strength be able to get you to the next level?

Velocity is genetics.  Any work you do can only take you to your own potential.  Hope he makes it Batty.  Velo is king (everyone knows it).  School first, then baseball.

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

Wesleythecacther posted:

Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6' 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

CatsPop posted:

Wesleythecacther posted:

Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6" 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

Thank you! I will, I am now lifting 3 days a week for the next 6 months and I will be starting personal training sometime soon. I weighed 200 and then I stared to lift and I did a lot of cardio in a week (10 to 20 minutes every day) and I lost 10 pounds. Now I weigh around 191.

Wesleythecacther posted:

CatsPop posted:

Wesleythecacther posted:

Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6" 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

Thank you! I will, I am now lifting 3 days a week for the next 6 months and I will be starting personal training sometime soon. I weighed 200 and then I stared to lift and I did a lot of cardio in a week (10 to 20 minutes every day) and I lost 10 pounds. Now I weigh around 191.

The muscle mass you are putting on will weigh more than the little bit of fat lost.  Keep at it!

CatsPop posted:

Wesleythecacther posted:

CatsPop posted:

Wesleythecacther posted:

Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6" 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

Thank you! I will, I am now lifting 3 days a week for the next 6 months and I will be starting personal training sometime soon. I weighed 200 and then I stared to lift and I did a lot of cardio in a week (10 to 20 minutes every day) and I lost 10 pounds. Now I weigh around 191.

The muscle mass you are putting on will weigh more than the little bit of fat lost.  Keep at it!

I will! Will keep you guys up to date. Got another 6 months! Can't wait to see the improvements and muscle gain in the following months. Should I still be doing cardio every day?

The piece of advice would be to be careful with the weightlifting. My son injured his shoulder prior to his junior year of HS and missed the whole season. Biggest issue is that it was his throwing shoulder, we suspect he hurt it during off season HS weight session. He was getting a bit of interest before that mostly due to his Pop times and he could swing it a little. 

Wesley, 

As the father of a customer of Kyle's who totally buys into what Kyle is teaching, I believe you can learn (and work) to throw harder. I also believe uninformed effort can be counter-productive, no matter how diligent or intense.

My son didn't get much coaching early because I thought I was raising a wrestler, not a baseball player. If I had to do it over again, I'd have invested in better coaching sooner.

Best wishes,

standballdad posted:

The piece of advice would be to be careful with the weightlifting. My son injured his shoulder prior to his junior year of HS and missed the whole season. Biggest issue is that it was his throwing shoulder, we suspect he hurt it during off season HS weight session. He was getting a bit of interest before that mostly due to his Pop times and he could swing it a little. 

I am using a lifting program I got from a CC that I went and visited. Some one from my high school went there and played baseball and he followed their lifting routine and he got very big.