Velocity Numbers?

MNBaseballGuy posted:

I just found this site, wow what a great resource for parents/players going through this the first time.   

Probably a really dumb question, but here goes.  I have a 2020 SS/RHP that is trying to prepare to play college baseball.  We have held off on PG/PBR showcases until he was ready.  We did however do a prospect camp at a Big 10 School where they measured alot of the "showcase" type measurables.  I am trying to compare his results to others that have done showcases.  They reported his exit velo off a tee at 84.8 (avg. of 6 swings).  But he hit 86 two of the 6 times.  How is that recorded in most showcases???  High or Average??

We are doing a PBR event in the spring to get some video and a profile for recruiters.  But in the mean time I am trying to figure out (based on the only numbers we have) where he would rank in other events.

 

Thanks!

Depends on who he is being compared to. Those are good exit velo #s for a 2020, but if he hasn’t already peeked the interest of schools he likely will be best served by waiting on the showcases for a bit

He has not peeked any interest, cause we are just starting the recruiting process.  We are just meeting with his club team owner for his advice and starting that process.  He has made an initial list of schools, and is in the process of reaching out to them.  But it feels weird to him (and me) that as a high school Sophomore who hasn't played an inning of High School Varsity baseball he is starting his college recruiting process.

He has been training very hard since the summer season ended (lifting, throwing program, hitting, etc) and has goals for the March Showcase he is attending.  6.9 60yd, 85 Infield velo, 90 Exit Velo and 85+ off the mound.  Are those the types of numbers (minus the pitching) that would draw interest from D1 schools? 

How big is your son?  Is he a starter for a top club team in your area?  You're asking the right questions, and it is excellent that you're meeting with your club team owner-coach, that is the best place to start to get an assessment before getting on the public radars like PBR and PG.

Size is his major down fall (in my opinion).  He is 5'10" 165lbs.  Dr. said he would be around 6', but he has not grown in a while.  He plays on the top club in our area, but on the 2nd team.  He has won MVP on that team for the past 2 seasons.

MN....the numbers that you're shooting for will get interest. 90 on exit velocity is very good for s 2020.    85+ on the mound with a couple secondary pitches will get him noticed.  I wouldn't worry about the IF velo....my son regularly threw 90 as a HS senior...and was also our starting SS...he never threw 85 across the IF.....80+ was good enough for anyone who was looking at him.   I can tell you based on my experience....son was all state SS with a good bat (4 HR's senior year...2 K's) who hit .475 against pretty good competition and also a RHP who as I said was 88-90 by the time he graduated.....that going into showcases expecting to do great on the mound and the IF is tough.  Son did both and it always seemed like if he had a great BP and IF that he didn't throw good.  If he threw good, he didn't hit well.  It's a pretty hectic day trying to do everything at a showcase...and worry about doing everything well.  The likeihood of playing both ways in college is very slim....make sure your son is prepared for this.  My son had 2 schools recruiting him as an IF and 2 as a pitcher.  He eventually chose pitcher (though now as a junior, he may get to DH in the spring). 

Buckeye - Thanks for the response, great information.  We have been talking to folks (as I mentioned above) and agreed that right now he projects as being an IF in college.  Although we all stated that if he comes back next season after working his butt off and throws 87+, pitcher might be in the cards.  For the 2 showcases we are going to do this spring, we will try to do both.  But I will prepare him for the hectic day he has in front of him.....

MNBaseballGuy posted:

Size is his major down fall (in my opinion).  He is 5'10" 165lbs.  Dr. said he would be around 6', but he has not grown in a while.  He plays on the top club in our area, but on the 2nd team.  He has won MVP on that team for the past 2 seasons.

 

That's avg size for a MIF.  FYI, a combo of 85+ IF velo and a "6.7 60yd" would be appealing to a college coach. It offers flexiblity to put a former SS in the OF. If he's got a Bat, that takes interest to another level.  Coaches are essentially recruiting Hitters and Pitchers.  If your son is excellent defensively, with speed, and hits the ball hard, chances are he'll get noticed during the top summer tournaments.  

It's key to be focused on strength, speed, and skill refinement during the off season.  Realizing what the measurables of top D1 players are an excellent reference point and something to strive toward.

Now is a great time to have conversations about type of colleges he's interested in (small, large, urban etc) and career interests.  How are his grades? This conversation along with an objective assessment of his baseball ability will allow you to help your son craft a recruiting plan.  If your son happens to be a top academic kid there are additional showcases and camps you may want to consider, and be aware of now, because one of them sells out early in January.  (Search Button on top right)

There are still a few months left in the off season, hopefully your son is hitting the gym.  Welcome to the site, great questions to start with...

MNBaseballGuy posted:

Buckeye - Thanks for the response, great information.  We have been talking to folks (as I mentioned above) and agreed that right now he projects as being an IF in college.  Although we all stated that if he comes back next season after working his butt off and throws 87+, pitcher might be in the cards.  For the 2 showcases we are going to do this spring, we will try to do both.  But I will prepare him for the hectic day he has in front of him.....

Welcome to the site.  That's a good starting plan. 

There is another thread going on currently that touches on measurables.  Your son's are fine but the bigger question is... what is he able to do with it?  With that good exit velo, is he able to barrel balls consistently against good pitching?  With that decent throwing velo, can he pitch?  Is he fluid in the field?  Etc., etc.  Your travel coach is much better suited to answer those questions because he sees your son's whole game regularly.

I understand the "feels weird" remark about a sophomore who hasn't played HS varsity yet but if he is playing decent travel ball with HS age kids, that can be enough of an indicator.  Both HS and travel ball vary WIDELY so you can't really associate recruiting readiness with whether he played one or the other yet.  You will be very glad you found this place.

90 exit velo and 85 across the diamond are solid. 6.9 in the middle infield isn't great. 

i would put the focus in to working on strength in a gym and speed. 165 is small. 

As far as measurables go, there's always exceptions, especially if you have one skill that is amazing. For example, a middle infielder with amazing hands and range doesn't necessarily need to hit well to see the field. Or if you have plus power, you can get a break on speed. Of course attaining all the tools will take you much further

Again, what a great group to get feedback from.   From an academic point of view, he is a 3.6 after his freshman year.  From a college point of view, he has no idea what he wants...  I think we need to take some time this summer and just go visit campus's to see what he likes.   

Joining the Fall/Winter club team 2 years ago opened my eyes to this college baseball thing (and his too!).  Every Sr that plays on our club plays ball somewhere (all levels and varies from year to year).  Last year they had 12 D1 commits.  The 2019 group (very talented group) already has 8 D1 commits.  Getting to know and see some of those kids, and playing along side and against some talented 2020's has been eye opening too.  We were in Vegas for a tournament in Oct. and he hit very well.  Not sure how good the competition really was though.  We have a PG tournament in AZ this  Jan.  That should be a good test.

Ultimately he has been doing exactly what D1catcher said above.  Working hard at getting bigger/faster/stronger in the gym this winter.  I guess in March we will find out what that does to his "measurable's".

I couldn't find an exact 86 for 2020, but here is an idea of where he is at just for exit velocity.

baseballhs posted:

I couldn't find an exact 86 for 2020, but here is an idea of where he is at just for exit velocity.

Yeah, and 85 on the mound was 94th percentile for the 2020 class this year. And a 6.92 sixty was 95th percentile for the 2020 class this year.

Considering the kid is a sophomore, those would be excellent numbers if he achieves them in March. 

Those numbers are roughly equivalent to (but actually slightly better than) -- for a senior -- 90 on the mound (93rd percentile for the class of 2018 this year) and 6.72 for the sixty (92nd percentile for the class of 2018 this year).

baseballhs posted:

I couldn't find an exact 86 for 2020, but here is an idea of where he is at just for exit velocity.

Yes,  86 is  89.81% for a 2020 according to PG. Change the category filter to Exit Velo and grad year to 2020.

https://www.perfectgame.org/Re...8&eventyear=2017

MNBaseballGuy,

Welcome.  So, my sense is that you are looking for confirmation of your son’s metrics and wondering when is the best time to showcase.  You’ve got that information and he appears to be a talented young man that is ready.   You’re doing all the right things and asking the right questions.  As you and your son take your next steps and see what is available to him, you’re going to be overwhelmed with information, attention, and possibilities.  My best advice is to stay grounded with what your son wants, and listen to his shifting thoughts about college baseball and education.   Many of these young men don’t know what they want and what is possible as a high school sophomore.  My son went through the same thing and his travel team background sounds similar to your son.  As a high junior, my son would only consider college + baseball in-state as all 14 of his travel teammates committed to D1 schools in-state and nearby states.  Attending national showcases and camps opened his eyes (and my eyes) to many other opportunities.  He ended up 8hrs away (3 states) playing D1 baseball and pursuing a major that he was passionate about. 

As you and your son go through this, feel free to ask questions to the HSBBWeb board.   Good luck this season and happy showcasing! 

Fenwaysouth - You hit the nail on the head.  I am looking for that confirmation.  It seems like in last 3 years he has gone from a good player on his town team to the best player on that team and a darn good player on a good club team.  Part of me doesn't believe that college baseball is a reality.  And yep, I think he is ready to showcase this spring.  We will see where that takes us. 

I also think you are also 100% correct that a sophomore doesn't know what he wants.  He has some homework from his club coach to reach out to 30 colleges...  Wide net.  But he has zero idea of what he wants from a college and has no video/online profile.  So do we wait until he has showcased and kind if know what he wants.  Or just pick 30 schools and go for it.

MNBaseballGuy posted:

Size is his major down fall (in my opinion).  He is 5'10" 165lbs.  Dr. said he would be around 6', but he has not grown in a while.  He plays on the top club in our area, but on the 2nd team.  He has won MVP on that team for the past 2 seasons.

 

Over the course of my son's HS career we played with two kids that sound similar to your son, 5-10ish and 170ish. One at TB and the other HS. Both were very good players. Both MIF. Very, very good defensive players and no slouches at the plate. Good grades also. One went NAIA and the other DII. Neither received any attention from DI, at least not any they were interested in.

I knew size played a role in the process but to see these two passed over was really eye opening. I've said it before, if you were 6-4, left handed, and ran a 6.5 you could fail in every way on the diamond and someone would still give you a chance.

Not trying to be a party pooper but it is what it is. 

We haven't completed this process yet, but we started a showcase and camp run in October.  I was worried by how many 2020s I saw committing.  Things started happening and it was better than we had hoped, or so I thought, until my son broke down and told me last week that he is overwhelmed and scared and not feeling at all ready.  He doesn't even drive yet.  The train is kind of rolling now and he wants to shut everything down.  I think you are smart to wait until Spring.  I'm worried now that he will miss opportunities because he is freaked out.  Not sure they ever feel ready but some must because they are committing every day.  I am now hearing from a few who have gone through this, that it wasn't as fun and exciting of a time for their boys as you would think.

baseballhs posted:

We haven't completed this process yet, but we started a showcase and camp run in October.  I was worried by how many 2020s I saw committing.  Things started happening and it was better than we had hoped, or so I thought, until my son broke down and told me last week that he is overwhelmed and scared and not feeling at all ready.  He doesn't even drive yet.  The train is kind of rolling now and he wants to shut everything down.  I think you are smart to wait until Spring.  I'm worried now that he will miss opportunities because he is freaked out.  Not sure they ever feel ready but some must because they are committing every day.  I am now hearing from a few who have gone through this, that it wasn't as fun and exciting of a time for their boys as you would think.

It's early. As a 2020 the best thing he can be doing is getting as strong and as fast as he can during the off season, as well as continuing to refine his baseball skills. Focus on reps and rest in the off season. This will help him regain some confidence.

The process and all the talk can be overwhelming.  Every player has his own path, relay that to him and make sure he knows how early it is.  Players that project D1 and are physically mature are the players getting interest now.  Back off from planned winter showcases, and backoff on the constant conversation about anything related to recruiting.  This website is an excellent site for a dad to vent and inform himself of all the recruiting related events.    

A player has to be feeling good about his skills to be mentally prepared for showcasing.  I've got a 2018 and we had a few too many camps scheduled the past August, I had already paid for a camp and was ready to purchase airfare, son told me he was not feeling it, and it was a potentially pivotal camp that could get him to a dream school.  It was difficult for me to suck it up and tell my son, maybe it was one camp too many.  I knew it was critical to be "feeling it" to have the confidence needed  to showcase.  I cancelled the camp, ate the $895, and saw immediate relief with my son.  It just wasn't meant to be.  

Keep the blinders on, and don't worry about the other kids being recruited.  Get your son feeling good about himself and his skills.  Confidence is key.  

The process can be overwhelming and intimidating. After a weekend at PG I commented to my kid, “You’re known in our area. But I just saw 500 kids just like you.” How are you going to separate yourself from the pack?”

In the big picture you don’t separate yourself from the pack. But you do for certain college programs. It’s important to figure out which schools it might be and how you’re going to do it. Everyone focuses on baseball talent. It is the primary focus. But a player may separate himself by how he carries himself on the field or maturity in a conversation with a coach. No kid ever got recruited for a firm handshake and looking a coach in the eye and calling him “sir.”. But it might be a difference maker. There are personal mannerisms that display confidence kids don’t think about that coaches notice. It’s hard to miss a kid who is always hustling from the top step of the dugout.

baseballhs posted:

  Not sure they ever feel ready but some must because they are committing every day.  I am now hearing from a few who have gone through this, that it wasn't as fun and exciting of a time for their boys as you would think.

My kid was ranked in the top 10 in his state by PBR. 6-3 190 by jr year. Threw hard, hit hard, decent defense. And the recruiting process was still really stressful. He had seven offers when he committed but didn't fall in love until the last one. So yeah, lots of ups and downs.

On the other hand some kids landed offers quickly. A lot ranked lower than the kid. They just found a fit/expectations weren't so high.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

MNBaseballGuy posted:

Size is his major down fall (in my opinion).  He is 5'10" 165lbs.  Dr. said he would be around 6', but he has not grown in a while.  He plays on the top club in our area, but on the 2nd team.  He has won MVP on that team for the past 2 seasons.

 

Over the course of my son's HS career we played with two kids that sound similar to your son, 5-10ish and 170ish. One at TB and the other HS. Both were very good players. Both MIF. Very, very good defensive players and no slouches at the plate. Good grades also. One went NAIA and the other DII. Neither received any attention from DI, at least not any they were interested in.

I knew size played a role in the process but to see these two passed over was really eye opening. I've said it before, if you were 6-4, left handed, and ran a 6.5 you could fail in every way on the diamond and someone would still give you a chance.

Not trying to be a party pooper but it is what it is. 

SomeBaseballDad - You're not being a party pooper, you're being honest.  I get that size is something that is very important at the next level.  And that might be his reality.  But for now, he is focusing on things he can control....  and working hard at it.  Where ever that takes him, it takes him.

As the parent of a 2020 this is what we are doing:

1. We are NOT getting hung up on D1.  If they are interested, great, but D2, NAIA and JUCO also give scholarships and if he improves the draft touches all divisions so it doesn't matter as long as he's playing.

2. I'm starting to believe more and more that showcases are for kids that have the potential to be drafted out of high school and for kids from a podunk town that no scout will ever visit.  AND THAT'S ALL!  If you are playing in the decent tourneys like the BCS or the WWBA or possibly the area code games the kid will be seen.  I saw over 50 scouts at last years PG Elite Underclass Championship.  They weren't there to see the team my son was guest pitching for, but as he sat down the other team one by one that the scouts WERE there to look at, he was seen.

3. If you can find a school and or campus you are really interested in bug the crud out of the HC there. Be at every camp, ask for unofficial visits, update constantly about where you will be, ask where THEY will be.  Get in front of them so many times it seems like you are already on the team.  This won't work for D1, and you can't put all your eggs in one basket.

4. I've seen kids work their tails off and never get to 80.  If your kid is a RHP throwing 85 this year D2 or NAIA are a solid options.  Many kids would love to be there, and if he has decent movement on his pitches you should reconsider his infield future.  Please remember that half the scholarships and half of all college baseball team rosters are pitchers.  A kid has a better shot at making it to a college roster as a pitcher than a position player, if he can actually pitch and not just throw the ball for strikes.

5. Don't judge your own kid.  There will be plenty of people to do that for you.  Get him out where you can and let the world decide.  With the numbers he already has he can play on several college teams, don't stress.  If he wants it he can make it happen at some school, somewhere.

MNBaseballGuy posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

MNBaseballGuy posted:

Size is his major down fall (in my opinion).  He is 5'10" 165lbs.  Dr. said he would be around 6', but he has not grown in a while.  He plays on the top club in our area, but on the 2nd team.  He has won MVP on that team for the past 2 seasons.

 

Over the course of my son's HS career we played with two kids that sound similar to your son, 5-10ish and 170ish. One at TB and the other HS. Both were very good players. Both MIF. Very, very good defensive players and no slouches at the plate. Good grades also. One went NAIA and the other DII. Neither received any attention from DI, at least not any they were interested in.

I knew size played a role in the process but to see these two passed over was really eye opening. I've said it before, if you were 6-4, left handed, and ran a 6.5 you could fail in every way on the diamond and someone would still give you a chance.

Not trying to be a party pooper but it is what it is. 

SomeBaseballDad - You're not being a party pooper, you're being honest.  I get that size is something that is very important at the next level.  And that might be his reality.  But for now, he is focusing on things he can control....  and working hard at it.  Where ever that takes him, it takes him.

I've seen plenty of MIF's that are 5/10-11 and 175ish lbs get attention and recruited by D1's.  It's also a matter of: is that particular D1 of interest to you?  Lots of D1's out there, and you've got to be looking for the right fit.  Chance to actually play, campus size and location, money offered, good fit as a student.....

In a competitive game against advanced pitching, if the 5'10 kid is making plays, stealing bases, and hitting it hard, the college coach isn't paying attention to the 6'2 MIF just because he's 6'2.  This is where it benefits the smaller player to be playing on a top team against top competition so he'll satisfy the college coach optics test.

I've also never heard of 5'10 being small in baseball.