Venting...When is it a must swing...tough start to a season!

3and2Fastball posted:

It is high school Baseball, kids get pulled out of games for all sorts of reasons.  Often at the JV or Freshman level substitutions are planned out in advance, regardless of the game situation or score.  i.e. "After Johnny gets 3 at bats I'm gonna put Tommy in", that kind of thing can be decided days in advance of a game.  

It was not, you can watch the coach winging it.  Before the inning you heard him make one change.  He pulled my son as he was walking up to bat, no one on, two outs.  

Let's rewind some of this.  He's throwing 'low 80s'. Is he a pitcher? If not, why not?

JCG posted:

A player has to have an approach.  Having an approach that includes swinging at borderline pitches on a hitter's count to earn more playing time may not achieve the desired result.

Yes, I agree.  It is crappy advice, but sometimes that is all there is.  On a team of 19...could be tough to get at bats unless do something and fast...sucky reality.  

Last season he finished at or around .400. Started hot, had a small slump in middle and finished strong. What would have happened if this was the coach and the start was not hot.  Would the strong finish even happen.  He never missed an at bat because the coach knew he would / could produce.  

SultanofSwat posted:

Let's rewind some of this.  He's throwing 'low 80s'. Is he a pitcher? If not, why not?

Yeah, he pitches.  It is not his love.  Loves hitting and playing in the field.  Normally a starter but this coach came to him and said he wants him to come out of bullpen because needs his defense on the field.  

He has only pitched once so far because we were only in one game and he closed it.  The other games we were not competitive and we burned innings with bottom of rotation.  Kids that don't really pitch.  

Rob T posted:

...how would you solve the problem?

"Hey coach, I was wondering... In the game when I took that high pitch, would you rather I tried to drive it - or did I handle it right by just trying to get on base?"

That will give your son the information he needs, and let the coach know that your son is paying attention to game situations.

I like this approach.  Good advice.  Consult the coach to see what he is looking for.  Creating a dialogue with the coach could definitely prove positive.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Here is the scenario…

Top of the 3^rd with one out, man on 2^nd and 3^rd.  My son is at the plate.  Count is 3-1.  The coach from third yells, gotta be your pitch! 

My son take a fastball that is a bit high, borderline, but probably a strike.  Count now 3-2.  Next pitch bounces in the dirt and he walks.  Should he have swung at the 3-1????  Seems like who cares, but my son and I had a long conversation last night that he should of…100%!  The walk was unacceptable.  

Now, let me set the background.  My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

Plays every position, but catcher.  On his travel team generally center and left, it is a good team here in the Northeast and competes for some weekend championships, but not every one. He is a very good defensive player. On the freshman team he started at 2^nd for the season, this year starts at 3^rd.  He prefers outfield, but as a town we are short on infielders.   He was lead-off for the freshman team last year and led the team in BA, OBP, Hits, Doubles and a few other categories.  One other kid had more extra base hits than him.  He has pretty much led every town team in these categories for 5 years and generally in top 3 in them on his travel team.  He almost always hits leadoff because he hits and has a good eye and does not really strikeout, so is on base a lot.   

The JV team has a new coach who does not know any of the players.  My son’s tryout was decent, but nothing amazing.   He has a circulation issue in fingers and tough in the NE when tryouts and games have been in the high 30’s and windy.   We have only played 5 game so far with weather cancellations. 

In the first 4 games he batted him somewhere between 5 and 7.  He has never batted past 5 before, but everyone has to prove themselves, so no big.  Going into the game he was 0-7 on the year and leads the team in RBI as he has come up multiple times with men in scoring position and less than two outs and has gotten the runs in. In the game before last night had two long shots that were caught, the contact you want though.   Last night he was batted in the 10 spot.

He walked as I said above and then the coach when he was on deck for his second at bat pulled him.  Did not see the field again.  I have mixed feelings on whether in general that pitch should be a take ever, some would say be aggressive and get the runs in.  Others would say 3-1 and you don’t love it, take the pitch. 

BUT, in my son’s case I told him that was a MUST SWING.  Even though the coach yelled gotta be your pitch, he did not mean it.  His actions said, if you don’t make something happen I am pulling you.  This is JV so there are no playoffs, so there is no team argument.  Plain and simple he needed to make a play to not get pulled. Should have swung to fight for more at bats!

Years of performing well and 0-7 with some good shots in the prior game is the 10 hole and one at bat!  Tough game, good life lessons! 

By the way the team BA is .192…FRUSTRATING START TO A SEASON!!!

IMHO, your, "must swing" in this instance is completely a selfish perspective.  You're looking at it from the perspective that it's better for your son to drive in a run than from what is best for the team in that instance.  You're frustrated that your kid isn't hitting particularly well and you'd rather see HIM get a hit to help that frustration.

It's early/mid part of game (3rd inning).  You don't mention the score, but that does matter to some degree, but I'll assume the game is tied or within a run either way.  IF the lead runner had been at third, and a sac fly would have pushed the run across, then maybe you expand your hitting zone a bit larger for the 3-1, but not automatically.  Your son was in a position to flip the order and bring top of the lineup in without risk of hitting into a DP and ending the inning.  7.3 isn't particularly fast, so, like it or not, he's a DP candidate.

The coach told him that it had to be his pitch.  It was not.  Don't second guess it.  Your son did the unselfish thing and what was best for the team.  You say he has a good eye at the plate.  He used it and worked the count, the pitcher and loaded the bases.  Tip your cap to the kid.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

I believe you are overcomplicating the event. Your son is at bat. The count is 3-1. His job is to be selective & get his pitch and hammer it. If it is a borderline pitch, or not where his go zone is, the smart play is to take & fill up the count. You are asking him to be in consideration of all of the background information you relate while at bat & factor that into the equation & swing at a take pitch because he has moved down in the order & may get pulled & career over & bla bla bla. This is impossible.

I mean absolutely no offense by this my friend, but be realistic. Your son is a Sophomore on JV hitting in the 10 hole. He may very well never play beyond HS. It's his game now. It's fine to have a conversation about where the 3-1 was & why he took it but if you lay your info given here on him you are doing harm, not good.. He will either figure things out and progress as a player or not. Your influence over events is heading well into the rear view mirror. Ease off on trying to steer his path. If he becomes a truly exceptional HS player, & he has time to do so, it will have absolutely no relation to the 3-1 pitch. Wish you both well. Chill out & enjoy it. 

Let me ask you a question, let's remove the background from this.  Player comes to you and says I am 0-7 and coach is pulling my at bats, but I don't want him to.  

What do you tell your son to do?  Take the walk and hope the coach gives him more time?  

Or pop up a borderline pitch and be 0 for 8.  Bad logic...

CaCO3Girl posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

DUDE, CHILL!!!!!  Why do you care so much?  Do you think you have ANY control over his JV season AT ALL?  Or is it more likely you will get onto your kid so much, with your UNACCEPTABLE, that he will shoot you the bird and say screw this baseball thing?  

You seem very angry.  

WOW, that's all you got out of that?  Just WOW!

Mostly I got that you are most likely transferring issues you have / had with your own son to me (e.g getting flicked off).  Attacking me for some reason. I didn't find and don't find the walk unacceptable, the coach did based on his actions.  

I don't "get onto" my son.  We get along.  He came to me and asked what I thought of how to deal with situation moving forward.  How get more playing time.  We together drew the conclusion that the walk led to the situation not improving.  That if he swung and was out he would have likely ended up in the same situation as the walk.  Getting benched.

That the only scenario that had a chance of getting more at bats was taking the chance and hitting the 3-1 pitch.  

I ask again, what advice would you have given?  What actions to take to not get pulled, since that is HIS goal...

You said:   "Should he have swung at the 3-1????  Seems like who cares, but my son and I had a long conversation last night that he should of…100%!  The walk was unacceptable.  "

^^^^^How exactly do you think that sounded?

"He came to me and asked what I thought of how to deal with situation moving forward.  How get more playing time.  "

You don't coach the team, therefore you have ZERO knowledge on the subject and likely fed him the wrong information, which won't make his life any easier with his coach.

I haven't talked about baseball with my son like that since about 11u, he's in 10th grade currently.  This is his team and his dream, I drive the car and I write the checks, that's MY job.  I don't critique.  If he doesn't like what happened during that at bat, or after, then he should talk to the coach about WHY he was pulled.  Supposition is usually pointless, this is between your son and his coach and you are absolutely not involved. 

I think I disagree with basically everything you have said.  People can have knowledge that are not the coach. You have no idea if anything will make his life easier or not with the coach.  You seem good at critiquing.  

Discussing things with your child and providing them with an outlet to discuss in advance, bounce things off of you before talking to a coach and providing advice is good parenting.  Some kids need that.  Not all kids are the same.

This idea that parents are not involved is crazy.  The coach cares about his team and his life.  Some care about the kids, but cannot care about all of them.  Not with 19 on a roster.

It is the parents job to care, help, guide, but not direct or helicopter.  Because you have not talked to your kid about scenarios in five years is fine for you, it does not make it right or wrong.  

rynoattack posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

I believe you are overcomplicating the event. Your son is at bat. The count is 3-1. His job is to be selective & get his pitch and hammer it. If it is a borderline pitch, or not where his go zone is, the smart play is to take & fill up the count. You are asking him to be in consideration of all of the background information you relate while at bat & factor that into the equation & swing at a take pitch because he has moved down in the order & may get pulled & career over & bla bla bla. This is impossible.

I mean absolutely no offense by this my friend, but be realistic. Your son is a Sophomore on JV hitting in the 10 hole. He may very well never play beyond HS. It's his game now. It's fine to have a conversation about where the 3-1 was & why he took it but if you lay your info given here on him you are doing harm, not good.. He will either figure things out and progress as a player or not. Your influence over events is heading well into the rear view mirror. Ease off on trying to steer his path. If he becomes a truly exceptional HS player, & he has time to do so, it will have absolutely no relation to the 3-1 pitch. Wish you both well. Chill out & enjoy it. 

Let me ask you a question, let's remove the background from this.  Player comes to you and says I am 0-7 and coach is pulling my at bats, but I don't want him to.  

What do you tell your son to do?  Take the walk and hope the coach gives him more time?  

Or pop up a borderline pitch and be 0 for 8.  Bad logic...

Just playing devil's advocate...but let's examine the logic.

0-7 with one more walk =  Getting pulled

0-8 with a pop-up  = Likely getting pulled

1-8 with a hit and 2 RBI = could end in getting pulled, but probably not.  

You can argue from a risk / reward perspective trying was the only way to win...

Nuke83 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Here is the scenario…

Top of the 3^rd with one out, man on 2^nd and 3^rd.  My son is at the plate.  Count is 3-1.  The coach from third yells, gotta be your pitch! 

My son take a fastball that is a bit high, borderline, but probably a strike.  Count now 3-2.  Next pitch bounces in the dirt and he walks.  Should he have swung at the 3-1????  Seems like who cares, but my son and I had a long conversation last night that he should of…100%!  The walk was unacceptable.  

Now, let me set the background.  My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

Plays every position, but catcher.  On his travel team generally center and left, it is a good team here in the Northeast and competes for some weekend championships, but not every one. He is a very good defensive player. On the freshman team he started at 2^nd for the season, this year starts at 3^rd.  He prefers outfield, but as a town we are short on infielders.   He was lead-off for the freshman team last year and led the team in BA, OBP, Hits, Doubles and a few other categories.  One other kid had more extra base hits than him.  He has pretty much led every town team in these categories for 5 years and generally in top 3 in them on his travel team.  He almost always hits leadoff because he hits and has a good eye and does not really strikeout, so is on base a lot.   

The JV team has a new coach who does not know any of the players.  My son’s tryout was decent, but nothing amazing.   He has a circulation issue in fingers and tough in the NE when tryouts and games have been in the high 30’s and windy.   We have only played 5 game so far with weather cancellations. 

In the first 4 games he batted him somewhere between 5 and 7.  He has never batted past 5 before, but everyone has to prove themselves, so no big.  Going into the game he was 0-7 on the year and leads the team in RBI as he has come up multiple times with men in scoring position and less than two outs and has gotten the runs in. In the game before last night had two long shots that were caught, the contact you want though.   Last night he was batted in the 10 spot.

He walked as I said above and then the coach when he was on deck for his second at bat pulled him.  Did not see the field again.  I have mixed feelings on whether in general that pitch should be a take ever, some would say be aggressive and get the runs in.  Others would say 3-1 and you don’t love it, take the pitch. 

BUT, in my son’s case I told him that was a MUST SWING.  Even though the coach yelled gotta be your pitch, he did not mean it.  His actions said, if you don’t make something happen I am pulling you.  This is JV so there are no playoffs, so there is no team argument.  Plain and simple he needed to make a play to not get pulled. Should have swung to fight for more at bats!

Years of performing well and 0-7 with some good shots in the prior game is the 10 hole and one at bat!  Tough game, good life lessons! 

By the way the team BA is .192…FRUSTRATING START TO A SEASON!!!

IMHO, your, "must swing" in this instance is completely a selfish perspective.  You're looking at it from the perspective that it's better for your son to drive in a run than from what is best for the team in that instance.  You're frustrated that your kid isn't hitting particularly well and you'd rather see HIM get a hit to help that frustration.

It's early/mid part of game (3rd inning).  You don't mention the score, but that does matter to some degree, but I'll assume the game is tied or within a run either way.  IF the lead runner had been at third, and a sac fly would have pushed the run across, then maybe you expand your hitting zone a bit larger for the 3-1, but not automatically.  Your son was in a position to flip the order and bring top of the lineup in without risk of hitting into a DP and ending the inning.  7.3 isn't particularly fast, so, like it or not, he's a DP candidate.

The coach told him that it had to be his pitch.  It was not.  Don't second guess it.  Your son did the unselfish thing and what was best for the team.  You say he has a good eye at the plate.  He used it and worked the count, the pitcher and loaded the bases.  Tip your cap to the kid.

Their was no score and there was no DP.  Man on 2nd and 3rd.  No force.  Yes, I agree selfish.  Honestly, I don't care about the team success.  It is JV.  There are no playoffs.  They don't even really report on wins and losses anywhere.  The team will be lucky to win 5 games.  I don't believe the coach cares either about winning either.

Down just 5-1 in the 5th he started to pull the plug on multiple hitters.  That game was in reach.  If the coach does not try and play for the team to win, why should I worry about it.  

When we play a travel tourney to win the weekend championship I care about the team or varsity when playing for something.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

rynoattack posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

I believe you are overcomplicating the event. Your son is at bat. The count is 3-1. His job is to be selective & get his pitch and hammer it. If it is a borderline pitch, or not where his go zone is, the smart play is to take & fill up the count. You are asking him to be in consideration of all of the background information you relate while at bat & factor that into the equation & swing at a take pitch because he has moved down in the order & may get pulled & career over & bla bla bla. This is impossible.

I mean absolutely no offense by this my friend, but be realistic. Your son is a Sophomore on JV hitting in the 10 hole. He may very well never play beyond HS. It's his game now. It's fine to have a conversation about where the 3-1 was & why he took it but if you lay your info given here on him you are doing harm, not good.. He will either figure things out and progress as a player or not. Your influence over events is heading well into the rear view mirror. Ease off on trying to steer his path. If he becomes a truly exceptional HS player, & he has time to do so, it will have absolutely no relation to the 3-1 pitch. Wish you both well. Chill out & enjoy it. 

Let me ask you a question, let's remove the background from this.  Player comes to you and says I am 0-7 and coach is pulling my at bats, but I don't want him to.  

What do you tell your son to do?  Take the walk and hope the coach gives him more time?  

Or pop up a borderline pitch and be 0 for 8.  Bad logic...

Just playing devil's advocate...but let's examine the logic.

0-7 with one more walk =  Getting pulled

0-8 with a pop-up  = Likely getting pulled

1-8 with a hit and 2 RBI = could end in getting pulled, but probably not.  

You can argue from a risk / reward perspective trying was the only way to win...

 

The point is that you can't approach a single AB with what the potential future consequences are (getting pulled, spot in the lineup, saving your next AB, breaking a slump, impressing your girlfriend -chicks dig the long ball, avoiding the talk from dad, etc., etc.) if you wish to be successful at this game.  You have to approach each single AB, each pitch, with a specific plan of attack for the specific game circumstance.  Focus on anything else detracts from your ability to execute in that AB.  

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

You are getting some very good feedback from a broad spectrum of parents and coaches that have been through this and are going through this. Sub V rosters in some cases carry "too" many players. The HC's reasoning for this is his, nothing a parent can do about it(except cause problems), playing time has to be dished out, defensive playing time and AB's suffer, but everyone on the roster should play at that level. You and I don't have to like it, but we certainly have to live with it.

If you continue to contribute to this forum understand that questions or situations posed will not always result in your favor or line of thinking. There are many recent coaching topics, you will find that a lot of us will side with the coaching(with the exception of abuse) because it's not our place to question this in game stuff, we can discuss it, but not necessarily criticize it. It's their workplace, not ours.

We as parents, for the most part, are not entitled to know the coach's decisions before, after or during games. We should rationalize situations with our kids and provide them an alternative, mature, reasoned explanation of what may have happened other than their interpretation of what happened. 

With my boys and thankfully I've never had to deal with abuse, the coach is always right, if they don't like it then they need to get better.

I'll reiterate, your son had a good AB in that situation, I hope that he was mentally present in that AB, pitch to pitch. Challenge him to be better in his future AB's, it will serve him tremendously. Good luck to your son for the remainder of the season.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Nuke83 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Here is the scenario…

Top of the 3^rd with one out, man on 2^nd and 3^rd.  My son is at the plate.  Count is 3-1.  The coach from third yells, gotta be your pitch! 

My son take a fastball that is a bit high, borderline, but probably a strike.  Count now 3-2.  Next pitch bounces in the dirt and he walks.  Should he have swung at the 3-1????  Seems like who cares, but my son and I had a long conversation last night that he should of…100%!  The walk was unacceptable.  

Now, let me set the background.  My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

Plays every position, but catcher.  On his travel team generally center and left, it is a good team here in the Northeast and competes for some weekend championships, but not every one. He is a very good defensive player. On the freshman team he started at 2^nd for the season, this year starts at 3^rd.  He prefers outfield, but as a town we are short on infielders.   He was lead-off for the freshman team last year and led the team in BA, OBP, Hits, Doubles and a few other categories.  One other kid had more extra base hits than him.  He has pretty much led every town team in these categories for 5 years and generally in top 3 in them on his travel team.  He almost always hits leadoff because he hits and has a good eye and does not really strikeout, so is on base a lot.   

The JV team has a new coach who does not know any of the players.  My son’s tryout was decent, but nothing amazing.   He has a circulation issue in fingers and tough in the NE when tryouts and games have been in the high 30’s and windy.   We have only played 5 game so far with weather cancellations. 

In the first 4 games he batted him somewhere between 5 and 7.  He has never batted past 5 before, but everyone has to prove themselves, so no big.  Going into the game he was 0-7 on the year and leads the team in RBI as he has come up multiple times with men in scoring position and less than two outs and has gotten the runs in. In the game before last night had two long shots that were caught, the contact you want though.   Last night he was batted in the 10 spot.

He walked as I said above and then the coach when he was on deck for his second at bat pulled him.  Did not see the field again.  I have mixed feelings on whether in general that pitch should be a take ever, some would say be aggressive and get the runs in.  Others would say 3-1 and you don’t love it, take the pitch. 

BUT, in my son’s case I told him that was a MUST SWING.  Even though the coach yelled gotta be your pitch, he did not mean it.  His actions said, if you don’t make something happen I am pulling you.  This is JV so there are no playoffs, so there is no team argument.  Plain and simple he needed to make a play to not get pulled. Should have swung to fight for more at bats!

Years of performing well and 0-7 with some good shots in the prior game is the 10 hole and one at bat!  Tough game, good life lessons! 

By the way the team BA is .192…FRUSTRATING START TO A SEASON!!!

IMHO, your, "must swing" in this instance is completely a selfish perspective.  You're looking at it from the perspective that it's better for your son to drive in a run than from what is best for the team in that instance.  You're frustrated that your kid isn't hitting particularly well and you'd rather see HIM get a hit to help that frustration.

It's early/mid part of game (3rd inning).  You don't mention the score, but that does matter to some degree, but I'll assume the game is tied or within a run either way.  IF the lead runner had been at third, and a sac fly would have pushed the run across, then maybe you expand your hitting zone a bit larger for the 3-1, but not automatically.  Your son was in a position to flip the order and bring top of the lineup in without risk of hitting into a DP and ending the inning.  7.3 isn't particularly fast, so, like it or not, he's a DP candidate.

The coach told him that it had to be his pitch.  It was not.  Don't second guess it.  Your son did the unselfish thing and what was best for the team.  You say he has a good eye at the plate.  He used it and worked the count, the pitcher and loaded the bases.  Tip your cap to the kid.

Their was no score and there was no DP.  Man on 2nd and 3rd.  No force.  Yes, I agree selfish.  Honestly, I don't care about the team success.  It is JV.  There are no playoffs.  They don't even really report on wins and losses anywhere.  The team will be lucky to win 5 games.  I don't believe the coach cares either about winning either.

Down just 5-1 in the 5th he started to pull the plug on multiple hitters.  That game was in reach.  If the coach does not try and play for the team to win, why should I worry about it.  

When we play a travel tourney to win the weekend championship I care about the team or varsity when playing for something.  

Our JV program has 17.  Keep in mind that JV is, in part, development for future V players.  The primary message I give to my JV coaches every year - establish the clear culture that we will play to win but we will play to win using every one of our players at some point during the course of each week and will develop to the point where there is team confidence regardless of who is on the field.  Is it fully realized all the time?  Of course not.  But it makes for the right foundation of what a JV program should be IMO.

Your mentality that you don't care about team success will bleed down through your kid, in some ways that you can't imagine.  This will show itself to the coaches as he attempts to progress in the program as it does in our program on a regular basis.  Things usually don't end well for those players, even those with decent talent and skill set and are otherwise good kids. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

As far as what happened next.  The lead runner scored on a past ball.  The 1 and 2 hitters both weakly grounded out.  They are fast runners who have had a few seeing eye singles, but cannot really hit.  

I like your comment a lot and that it is based on the coaches perspective.  What a 10 hitter is supposed to do.  My son's goal is to show the coach he is not a 10 hitter.  Has never been and does not belong as one. 

I have never seen a scenario where a 10 hitter moves up in the lineup and gets pulled less because he drew a walk.  Have you? 

You sound really obsessed with this.  It's really not that big of a deal.  It is one at bat.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

As far as what happened next.  The lead runner scored on a past ball.  The 1 and 2 hitters both weakly grounded out.  They are fast runners who have had a few seeing eye singles, but cannot really hit.  

I like your comment a lot and that it is based on the coaches perspective.  What a 10 hitter is supposed to do.  My son's goal is to show the coach he is not a 10 hitter.  Has never been and does not belong as one. 

I have never seen a scenario where a 10 hitter moves up in the lineup and gets pulled less because he drew a walk.  Have you? 

 

I would guess this has more to do with being 0-7 than it does one walk.

cabbagedad posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Nuke83 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Here is the scenario…

Top of the 3^rd with one out, man on 2^nd and 3^rd.  My son is at the plate.  Count is 3-1.  The coach from third yells, gotta be your pitch! 

My son take a fastball that is a bit high, borderline, but probably a strike.  Count now 3-2.  Next pitch bounces in the dirt and he walks.  Should he have swung at the 3-1????  Seems like who cares, but my son and I had a long conversation last night that he should of…100%!  The walk was unacceptable.  

Now, let me set the background.  My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

Plays every position, but catcher.  On his travel team generally center and left, it is a good team here in the Northeast and competes for some weekend championships, but not every one. He is a very good defensive player. On the freshman team he started at 2^nd for the season, this year starts at 3^rd.  He prefers outfield, but as a town we are short on infielders.   He was lead-off for the freshman team last year and led the team in BA, OBP, Hits, Doubles and a few other categories.  One other kid had more extra base hits than him.  He has pretty much led every town team in these categories for 5 years and generally in top 3 in them on his travel team.  He almost always hits leadoff because he hits and has a good eye and does not really strikeout, so is on base a lot.   

The JV team has a new coach who does not know any of the players.  My son’s tryout was decent, but nothing amazing.   He has a circulation issue in fingers and tough in the NE when tryouts and games have been in the high 30’s and windy.   We have only played 5 game so far with weather cancellations. 

In the first 4 games he batted him somewhere between 5 and 7.  He has never batted past 5 before, but everyone has to prove themselves, so no big.  Going into the game he was 0-7 on the year and leads the team in RBI as he has come up multiple times with men in scoring position and less than two outs and has gotten the runs in. In the game before last night had two long shots that were caught, the contact you want though.   Last night he was batted in the 10 spot.

He walked as I said above and then the coach when he was on deck for his second at bat pulled him.  Did not see the field again.  I have mixed feelings on whether in general that pitch should be a take ever, some would say be aggressive and get the runs in.  Others would say 3-1 and you don’t love it, take the pitch. 

BUT, in my son’s case I told him that was a MUST SWING.  Even though the coach yelled gotta be your pitch, he did not mean it.  His actions said, if you don’t make something happen I am pulling you.  This is JV so there are no playoffs, so there is no team argument.  Plain and simple he needed to make a play to not get pulled. Should have swung to fight for more at bats!

Years of performing well and 0-7 with some good shots in the prior game is the 10 hole and one at bat!  Tough game, good life lessons! 

By the way the team BA is .192…FRUSTRATING START TO A SEASON!!!

IMHO, your, "must swing" in this instance is completely a selfish perspective.  You're looking at it from the perspective that it's better for your son to drive in a run than from what is best for the team in that instance.  You're frustrated that your kid isn't hitting particularly well and you'd rather see HIM get a hit to help that frustration.

It's early/mid part of game (3rd inning).  You don't mention the score, but that does matter to some degree, but I'll assume the game is tied or within a run either way.  IF the lead runner had been at third, and a sac fly would have pushed the run across, then maybe you expand your hitting zone a bit larger for the 3-1, but not automatically.  Your son was in a position to flip the order and bring top of the lineup in without risk of hitting into a DP and ending the inning.  7.3 isn't particularly fast, so, like it or not, he's a DP candidate.

The coach told him that it had to be his pitch.  It was not.  Don't second guess it.  Your son did the unselfish thing and what was best for the team.  You say he has a good eye at the plate.  He used it and worked the count, the pitcher and loaded the bases.  Tip your cap to the kid.

Their was no score and there was no DP.  Man on 2nd and 3rd.  No force.  Yes, I agree selfish.  Honestly, I don't care about the team success.  It is JV.  There are no playoffs.  They don't even really report on wins and losses anywhere.  The team will be lucky to win 5 games.  I don't believe the coach cares either about winning either.

Down just 5-1 in the 5th he started to pull the plug on multiple hitters.  That game was in reach.  If the coach does not try and play for the team to win, why should I worry about it.  

When we play a travel tourney to win the weekend championship I care about the team or varsity when playing for something.  

Our JV program has 17.  Keep in mind that JV is, in part, development for future V players.  The primary message I give to my JV coaches every year - establish the clear culture that we will play to win but we will play to win using every one of our players at some point during the course of each week and will develop to the point where there is team confidence regardless of who is on the field.  Is it fully realized all the time?  Of course not.  But it makes for the right foundation of what a JV program should be IMO.

Your mentality that you don't care about team success will bleed down through your kid, in some ways that you can't imagine.  This will show itself to the coaches as he attempts to progress in the program as it does in our program on a regular basis.  Things usually don't end well for those players, even those with decent talent and skill set and are otherwise good kids. 

Sounds like you run a good JV program.  Ours is not run by the head coach. He has no idea what occurs.  He never once has attended a game or practice of either JV or Freshman. He does not any of the players names or where they play and how they perform.  

baseballhs posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

As far as what happened next.  The lead runner scored on a past ball.  The 1 and 2 hitters both weakly grounded out.  They are fast runners who have had a few seeing eye singles, but cannot really hit.  

I like your comment a lot and that it is based on the coaches perspective.  What a 10 hitter is supposed to do.  My son's goal is to show the coach he is not a 10 hitter.  Has never been and does not belong as one. 

I have never seen a scenario where a 10 hitter moves up in the lineup and gets pulled less because he drew a walk.  Have you? 

 

I would guess this has more to do with being 0-7 than it does one walk.

Do you believe  a player can be judged in 7 at bats?  That being 0-7 with multiple hard hit line drives where outfielders have to move back on the ball and 5 RBI in those at bats is indicative of a poor hitter.  

I at no time have judged the coach or said he should have done X or Y.  I think it is a tough spot to manage 19 kids you have never seen before and can barely practice outside due to weather.  

My premise was entirely about how my son could maximize his chances to show what he can do in a tough situation for him and the coach.  

3and2Fastball posted:

You sound really obsessed with this.  It's really not that big of a deal.  It is one at bat.

Serenity now!

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

baseballhs posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

As far as what happened next.  The lead runner scored on a past ball.  The 1 and 2 hitters both weakly grounded out.  They are fast runners who have had a few seeing eye singles, but cannot really hit.  

I like your comment a lot and that it is based on the coaches perspective.  What a 10 hitter is supposed to do.  My son's goal is to show the coach he is not a 10 hitter.  Has never been and does not belong as one. 

I have never seen a scenario where a 10 hitter moves up in the lineup and gets pulled less because he drew a walk.  Have you? 

 

I would guess this has more to do with being 0-7 than it does one walk.

Do you believe  a player can be judged in 7 at bats?  That being 0-7 with multiple hard hit line drives where outfielders have to move back on the ball and 5 RBI in those at bats is indicative of a poor hitter.  

I at no time have judged the coach or said he should have done X or Y.  I think it is a tough spot to manage 19 kids you have never seen before and can barely practice outside due to weather.  

My premise was entirely about how my son could maximize his chances to show what he can do in a tough situation for him and the coach.  

This just seems easy.  If he wants favor with the coach, do what the coach tells him to do.

tanndonn posted:

You are getting some very good feedback from a broad spectrum of parents and coaches that have been through this and are going through this. Sub V rosters in some cases carry "too" many players. The HC's reasoning for this is his, nothing a parent can do about it(except cause problems), playing time has to be dished out, defensive playing time and AB's suffer, but everyone on the roster should play at that level. You and I don't have to like it, but we certainly have to live with it.

If you continue to contribute to this forum understand that questions or situations posed will not always result in your favor or line of thinking. There are many recent coaching topics, you will find that a lot of us will side with the coaching(with the exception of abuse) because it's not our place to question this in game stuff, we can discuss it, but not necessarily criticize it. It's their workplace, not ours.

We as parents, for the most part, are not entitled to know the coach's decisions before, after or during games. We should rationalize situations with our kids and provide them an alternative, mature, reasoned explanation of what may have happened other than their interpretation of what happened. 

With my boys and thankfully I've never had to deal with abuse, the coach is always right, if they don't like it then they need to get better.

I'll reiterate, your son had a good AB in that situation, I hope that he was mentally present in that AB, pitch to pitch. Challenge him to be better in his future AB's, it will serve him tremendously. Good luck to your son for the remainder of the season.

I love the feedback and have no issue with people disagreeing with me.  I appreciate it actually, I already know what I think.  

I was not seeking to understand or get an explanation behind "why" the coach made a decision.  He is the coach and can do whatever he wants and I have no say and would never seek to discuss with him.   The school cannot pay fully for everything the program wants to do so they ask families to pay...that comes with strings...but I would never question as it comes to my child.  I am clearly impartial as it relates to my own child.  

What I was raising is how can my son influence the coaches future decisions.  How to not get pulled...the fact he was pulled is water under the bridge. Can only influence the future.  

baseballhs posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

baseballhs posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

As far as what happened next.  The lead runner scored on a past ball.  The 1 and 2 hitters both weakly grounded out.  They are fast runners who have had a few seeing eye singles, but cannot really hit.  

I like your comment a lot and that it is based on the coaches perspective.  What a 10 hitter is supposed to do.  My son's goal is to show the coach he is not a 10 hitter.  Has never been and does not belong as one. 

I have never seen a scenario where a 10 hitter moves up in the lineup and gets pulled less because he drew a walk.  Have you? 

 

I would guess this has more to do with being 0-7 than it does one walk.

Do you believe  a player can be judged in 7 at bats?  That being 0-7 with multiple hard hit line drives where outfielders have to move back on the ball and 5 RBI in those at bats is indicative of a poor hitter.  

I at no time have judged the coach or said he should have done X or Y.  I think it is a tough spot to manage 19 kids you have never seen before and can barely practice outside due to weather.  

My premise was entirely about how my son could maximize his chances to show what he can do in a tough situation for him and the coach.  

This just seems easy.  If he wants favor with the coach, do what the coach tells him to do.

hahah...if that was all we had to do to get what we want in life...

 It's amazing what a difference 5 months can make!

@No! Don't Call Bunt! You couldn't be more wrong.  Outs and base runners are precious things in baseball.  You need base runners to score runs.  And you only have so many outs to do so.  Your kid's job in that situation was to preserve an out, get on base, and turn the lineup over.  3-1 with a borderline high pitch is not anywhere near a "must swing."  In fact, a coach who knew what he was doing would bench a player for that.  He pops it up or grounds out to pitcher -- we have just given up an out we didn't need to give up.  He doesn't even need a double in that situation.  He needs to find a way on base, period.  If he hits it into the outfield for a single and two runs score, great.  

As for being 0-7, that is meaningless at this point.  How have the at bats been?  If they are crappy, then yeah he'll be moved down and out.  If they are good at bats, he'll continue to get his chances.  He had a good at bat.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

 It's amazing what a difference 5 months can make!

NO! DON'T CALL BUNT!100+ POSTS

11/10/178:41 AM

Hi all, my first post on here.  Sorry if it is long....

Love the site and all the valuable feedback!  My son is a 2020 and just starting the process.  He has played travel since pretty young and is a good ball player.  One of those players every coach wants and does everything well.  Plays every position, starts in center and pitches.  Every coach travel or high school hits him lead off.  Generally leads the team in batting average and extra base hits from the lead-off spot.  He can flat out hit, does not swing at bad pitches and is an excellent defensive player with good speed. If the team is in a tough spot, he is the pitcher they bring in and he performs.  

He is not a physical phenom and we TOTALLY GET that recruiting is about numbers.  From a numbers perspective he runs just under 7 seconds and is at 80 from a throwing velocity and exit velocity perspective.  Still growing and getting stronger.  Not at a place yet where we are really looking to get any kind of offer and we know if does not get stronger he won't get any bigger offers or maybe none at all.  We are very realistic.

.........etc  

 

So, what is the point you are making?  All of those things are true or at least they were true until this season.  Thus the hard time he is having, thus my post today, thus my son's frustration.  

I saw you highlighted the 60 time. He had run under a 7 on turf at a scouting session his travel team hosted. He has since grown some and at tryouts he ran a 7.3, so I did not want to say he was under 7...since the last time he ran he was not.  His throwing and exit velocity are up a little though.

Again...are you making a point of some kind?  

Golfman25 posted:

@No! Don't Call Bunt! You couldn't be more wrong.  Outs and base runners are precious things in baseball.  You need base runners to score runs.  And you only have so many outs to do so.  Your kid's job in that situation was to preserve an out, get on base, and turn the lineup over.  3-1 with a borderline high pitch is not anywhere near a "must swing."  In fact, a coach who knew what he was doing would bench a player for that.  He pops it up or grounds out to pitcher -- we have just given up an out we didn't need to give up.  He doesn't even need a double in that situation.  He needs to find a way on base, period.  If he hits it into the outfield for a single and two runs score, great.  

As for being 0-7, that is meaningless at this point.  How have the at bats been?  If they are crappy, then yeah he'll be moved down and out.  If they are good at bats, he'll continue to get his chances.  He had a good at bat.  

I agree with you, but that has not been what has occurred.  His first 5 at bats were a mix of productive (RBI producing - 5 RBI) and not great contact.  His last two at bats were excellent, both long ropes deep, but at guys so outs.  

Final plate appearance was the walk.  So, in a sample size that is really small the last 3 times at the plate were 2 hard hit balls and a walk.  Yet...pulled again...

So, my point is I agree the team did not need a double.  Hard to argue that my son did not need a double to maintain or increase playing time...

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

 It's amazing what a difference 5 months can make!

NO! DON'T CALL BUNT!100+ POSTS

11/10/178:41 AM

Hi all, my first post on here.  Sorry if it is long....

Love the site and all the valuable feedback!  My son is a 2020 and just starting the process.  He has played travel since pretty young and is a good ball player.  One of those players every coach wants and does everything well.  Plays every position, starts in center and pitches.  Every coach travel or high school hits him lead off.  Generally leads the team in batting average and extra base hits from the lead-off spot.  He can flat out hit, does not swing at bad pitches and is an excellent defensive player with good speed. If the team is in a tough spot, he is the pitcher they bring in and he performs.  

He is not a physical phenom and we TOTALLY GET that recruiting is about numbers.  From a numbers perspective he runs just under 7 seconds and is at 80 from a throwing velocity and exit velocity perspective.  Still growing and getting stronger.  Not at a place yet where we are really looking to get any kind of offer and we know if does not get stronger he won't get any bigger offers or maybe none at all.  We are very realistic.

.........etc  

 

So, what is the point you are making?  All of those things are true or at least they were true until this season.  Thus the hard time he is having, thus my post today, thus my son's frustration.  

I saw you highlighted the 60 time. He had run under a 7 on turf at a scouting session his travel team hosted. He has since grown some and at tryouts he ran a 7.3, so I did not want to say he was under 7...since the last time he ran he was not.  His throwing and exit velocity are up a little though.

Again...are you making a point of some kind?  

Yes, my point is you are very contradictory and I think you are a troll.

Past post and this post don't match.

You said it's unacceptable then said you never said that.

You said it wasn't about the coach, but this whole post is about the coach and yet you have not given the simple instruction that 99% of us have "If you have a problem with it go talk to the coach." Which is why I think you are a troll.

I'm done

CaCO3Girl posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

 It's amazing what a difference 5 months can make!

NO! DON'T CALL BUNT!100+ POSTS

11/10/178:41 AM

Hi all, my first post on here.  Sorry if it is long....

Love the site and all the valuable feedback!  My son is a 2020 and just starting the process.  He has played travel since pretty young and is a good ball player.  One of those players every coach wants and does everything well.  Plays every position, starts in center and pitches.  Every coach travel or high school hits him lead off.  Generally leads the team in batting average and extra base hits from the lead-off spot.  He can flat out hit, does not swing at bad pitches and is an excellent defensive player with good speed. If the team is in a tough spot, he is the pitcher they bring in and he performs.  

He is not a physical phenom and we TOTALLY GET that recruiting is about numbers.  From a numbers perspective he runs just under 7 seconds and is at 80 from a throwing velocity and exit velocity perspective.  Still growing and getting stronger.  Not at a place yet where we are really looking to get any kind of offer and we know if does not get stronger he won't get any bigger offers or maybe none at all.  We are very realistic.

.........etc  

 

So, what is the point you are making?  All of those things are true or at least they were true until this season.  Thus the hard time he is having, thus my post today, thus my son's frustration.  

I saw you highlighted the 60 time. He had run under a 7 on turf at a scouting session his travel team hosted. He has since grown some and at tryouts he ran a 7.3, so I did not want to say he was under 7...since the last time he ran he was not.  His throwing and exit velocity are up a little though.

Again...are you making a point of some kind?  

Yes, my point is you are very contradictory and I think you are a troll.

Past post and this post don't match.

You said it's unacceptable then said you never said that.

You said it wasn't about the coach, but this whole post is about the coach and yet you have not given the simple instruction that 99% of us have "If you have a problem with it go talk to the coach." Which is why I think you are a troll.

I'm done

Well, that is positive that you are done, you have been kind of mean and seem quite angry.  You could see someone to help with that.  I was honestly seeking perspectives from the board and received a lot of valuable insight and feedback.  Obviously from people other than you.  

Let's go through each of your points one by one...

My posts are not contradictory at all.  When that was posted it was all the case and I even indicated in this post he was always a top hitter and performer.  Thus his frustration this season, when he has thus far not been.  The only thing that is different is his 60 time went up a bit, just a fact.  Could have been a fast or slow clock either time or one on turf other in mud.  Either way his last time was worse...so that is his speed right now that the coach knows of.  Wanted to be factual.

I did say unacceptable, what I meant was that is was unacceptable to the coach, not to me.  

I would never just give the advice go to to the coach unless had something to actually say.  It is pointless to go to the coach and say...how do I get more at bats.  But, I received a valuable idea from one of the posters, which I texted to my son.  

Thanks for your valuable contributions to this discussion and being done.  

Ultimately if he's running 7-7.3 and throwing 80 as a Soph, with a plus glove, he's got a strong foundation to work with.  Just tell him to  work hard, he'll get opportunities.

3and2Fastball posted:

Ultimately if he's running 7-7.3 and throwing 80 as a Soph, with a plus glove, he's got a strong foundation to work with.  Just tell him to  work hard, he'll get opportunities.

 

Thanks!  Just frustrating when you see your kid frustrated.  You want to help your kid solve their issues, but some have no easy solution and this may be one of those times.  Time will tell...

Rising above frustrations and dealing with adversities is just part of being a Baseball player.  As a parent we sometimes want to protect our kids from that stuff, but we know they will grow stronger from going through it & learning.  Life isn't fair.  Success comes from strong preparation, when hard work meets opportunity, good things will happen

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

.........  It is pointless to go to the coach and say...how do I get more at bats.  

 

FYI, that's exactly what most kids do.  It also works well to say "What do I need to work on to get into the line up?" Now I'm done.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Golfman25 posted:

@No! Don't Call Bunt! You couldn't be more wrong.  Outs and base runners are precious things in baseball.  You need base runners to score runs.  And you only have so many outs to do so.  Your kid's job in that situation was to preserve an out, get on base, and turn the lineup over.  3-1 with a borderline high pitch is not anywhere near a "must swing."  In fact, a coach who knew what he was doing would bench a player for that.  He pops it up or grounds out to pitcher -- we have just given up an out we didn't need to give up.  He doesn't even need a double in that situation.  He needs to find a way on base, period.  If he hits it into the outfield for a single and two runs score, great.  

As for being 0-7, that is meaningless at this point.  How have the at bats been?  If they are crappy, then yeah he'll be moved down and out.  If they are good at bats, he'll continue to get his chances.  He had a good at bat.  

I agree with you, but that has not been what has occurred.  His first 5 at bats were a mix of productive (RBI producing - 5 RBI) and not great contact.  His last two at bats were excellent, both long ropes deep, but at guys so outs.  

Final plate appearance was the walk.  So, in a sample size that is really small the last 3 times at the plate were 2 hard hit balls and a walk.  Yet...pulled again...

So, my point is I agree the team did not need a double.  Hard to argue that my son did not need a double to maintain or increase playing time...

If you think that, your kid will be out of the game shortly.  Nothing like going up to bat thinking "I need a double" to stay in the line up.  And you seem to equate batting order position with "success."  Again, nothing further from the truth in HS ball.  A lot depends on how the coach is trying to construct his team.  Ours has his three fastest kids bat 1-2-3.  The guy at the 3 spot has no business being there from a hitting standpoint.  But it is obvious that he is trying to get speed on base before his mashers come up at 4-5-6.  In your case it seems like the coach is looking at a speedy, contact hitter type -- which is what you want for the 9 (or 10) spot.  As to why your kid was pulled, who knows.  Maybe the coach isn't getting any at home -- yes it can be that random with some guys.  I have seen some goofy things in HS ball.  You'll have better luck trying to figure out women.    

I’m going to put on the black hat. None of the following matches the rest of the thread ...

My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

He would be a D1 prospect if he grows does not mix with decent shot to play D3. Where he bats in the lineup as a soph on JV doesn’t match either. Unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game.

Are you upset your son isn’t on the path to meet your dreams of him playing college ball? His metrics aren’t that great.

0-7 isn’t a big deal. It’s statistics in extremely small numbers in horrible playing weather. As for taking on 3-1 unless the pitch is dead red in his zone it’s a take for a bottom of the lineup hitter.  As the coach instructed, unless it’s your pitch.

Relax and let it be his experience. Don’t create an environment where he avoids you after the game.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

I believe you are overcomplicating the event. Your son is at bat. The count is 3-1. His job is to be selective & get his pitch and hammer it. If it is a borderline pitch, or not where his go zone is, the smart play is to take & fill up the count. You are asking him to be in consideration of all of the background information you relate while at bat & factor that into the equation & swing at a take pitch because he has moved down in the order & may get pulled & career over & bla bla bla. This is impossible.

I mean absolutely no offense by this my friend, but be realistic. Your son is a Sophomore on JV hitting in the 10 hole. He may very well never play beyond HS. It's his game now. It's fine to have a conversation about where the 3-1 was & why he took it but if you lay your info given here on him you are doing harm, not good.. He will either figure things out and progress as a player or not. Your influence over events is heading well into the rear view mirror. Ease off on trying to steer his path. If he becomes a truly exceptional HS player, & he has time to do so, it will have absolutely no relation to the 3-1 pitch. Wish you both well. Chill out & enjoy it. 

Let me ask you a question, let's remove the background from this.  Player comes to you and says I am 0-7 and coach is pulling my at bats, but I don't want him to.  

What do you tell your son to do?  Take the walk and hope the coach gives him more time?  

Your son’s playing time is not determined in one at bat unless he’s extremely marginal to even be on the team. He’s evaluated daily in practice and games. When he made the team the coach determined his upside potential which can change weekly based on attitude and effort.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

cabbagedad posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Nuke83 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Here is the scenario…

Top of the 3^rd with one out, man on 2^nd and 3^rd.  My son is at the plate.  Count is 3-1.  The coach from third yells, gotta be your pitch! 

My son take a fastball that is a bit high, borderline, but probably a strike.  Count now 3-2.  Next pitch bounces in the dirt and he walks.  Should he have swung at the 3-1????  Seems like who cares, but my son and I had a long conversation last night that he should of…100%!  The walk was unacceptable.  

Now, let me set the background.  My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

Plays every position, but catcher.  On his travel team generally center and left, it is a good team here in the Northeast and competes for some weekend championships, but not every one. He is a very good defensive player. On the freshman team he started at 2^nd for the season, this year starts at 3^rd.  He prefers outfield, but as a town we are short on infielders.   He was lead-off for the freshman team last year and led the team in BA, OBP, Hits, Doubles and a few other categories.  One other kid had more extra base hits than him.  He has pretty much led every town team in these categories for 5 years and generally in top 3 in them on his travel team.  He almost always hits leadoff because he hits and has a good eye and does not really strikeout, so is on base a lot.   

The JV team has a new coach who does not know any of the players.  My son’s tryout was decent, but nothing amazing.   He has a circulation issue in fingers and tough in the NE when tryouts and games have been in the high 30’s and windy.   We have only played 5 game so far with weather cancellations. 

In the first 4 games he batted him somewhere between 5 and 7.  He has never batted past 5 before, but everyone has to prove themselves, so no big.  Going into the game he was 0-7 on the year and leads the team in RBI as he has come up multiple times with men in scoring position and less than two outs and has gotten the runs in. In the game before last night had two long shots that were caught, the contact you want though.   Last night he was batted in the 10 spot.

He walked as I said above and then the coach when he was on deck for his second at bat pulled him.  Did not see the field again.  I have mixed feelings on whether in general that pitch should be a take ever, some would say be aggressive and get the runs in.  Others would say 3-1 and you don’t love it, take the pitch. 

BUT, in my son’s case I told him that was a MUST SWING.  Even though the coach yelled gotta be your pitch, he did not mean it.  His actions said, if you don’t make something happen I am pulling you.  This is JV so there are no playoffs, so there is no team argument.  Plain and simple he needed to make a play to not get pulled. Should have swung to fight for more at bats!

Years of performing well and 0-7 with some good shots in the prior game is the 10 hole and one at bat!  Tough game, good life lessons! 

By the way the team BA is .192…FRUSTRATING START TO A SEASON!!!

IMHO, your, "must swing" in this instance is completely a selfish perspective.  You're looking at it from the perspective that it's better for your son to drive in a run than from what is best for the team in that instance.  You're frustrated that your kid isn't hitting particularly well and you'd rather see HIM get a hit to help that frustration.

It's early/mid part of game (3rd inning).  You don't mention the score, but that does matter to some degree, but I'll assume the game is tied or within a run either way.  IF the lead runner had been at third, and a sac fly would have pushed the run across, then maybe you expand your hitting zone a bit larger for the 3-1, but not automatically.  Your son was in a position to flip the order and bring top of the lineup in without risk of hitting into a DP and ending the inning.  7.3 isn't particularly fast, so, like it or not, he's a DP candidate.

The coach told him that it had to be his pitch.  It was not.  Don't second guess it.  Your son did the unselfish thing and what was best for the team.  You say he has a good eye at the plate.  He used it and worked the count, the pitcher and loaded the bases.  Tip your cap to the kid.

Their was no score and there was no DP.  Man on 2nd and 3rd.  No force.  Yes, I agree selfish.  Honestly, I don't care about the team success.  It is JV.  There are no playoffs.  They don't even really report on wins and losses anywhere.  The team will be lucky to win 5 games.  I don't believe the coach cares either about winning either.

Down just 5-1 in the 5th he started to pull the plug on multiple hitters.  That game was in reach.  If the coach does not try and play for the team to win, why should I worry about it.  

When we play a travel tourney to win the weekend championship I care about the team or varsity when playing for something.  

Our JV program has 17.  Keep in mind that JV is, in part, development for future V players.  The primary message I give to my JV coaches every year - establish the clear culture that we will play to win but we will play to win using every one of our players at some point during the course of each week and will develop to the point where there is team confidence regardless of who is on the field.  Is it fully realized all the time?  Of course not.  But it makes for the right foundation of what a JV program should be IMO.

Your mentality that you don't care about team success will bleed down through your kid, in some ways that you can't imagine.  This will show itself to the coaches as he attempts to progress in the program as it does in our program on a regular basis.  Things usually don't end well for those players, even those with decent talent and skill set and are otherwise good kids. 

Sounds like you run a good JV program.  Ours is not run by the head coach. He has no idea what occurs.  He never once has attended a game or practice of either JV or Freshman. He does not any of the players names or where they play and how they perform.  

 

My son played JV as a freshman. We never saw the varsity coach at games. He was busy coaching the varsity. But the JV coach was always updating him on player progress. I guarantee it’s the same at your high school. 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

baseballhs posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

As far as what happened next.  The lead runner scored on a past ball.  The 1 and 2 hitters both weakly grounded out.  They are fast runners who have had a few seeing eye singles, but cannot really hit.  

I like your comment a lot and that it is based on the coaches perspective.  What a 10 hitter is supposed to do.  My son's goal is to show the coach he is not a 10 hitter.  Has never been and does not belong as one. 

I have never seen a scenario where a 10 hitter moves up in the lineup and gets pulled less because he drew a walk.  Have you? 

 

I would guess this has more to do with being 0-7 than it does one walk.

Do you believe  a player can be judged in 7 at bats?  That being 0-7 with multiple hard hit line drives where outfielders have to move back on the ball and 5 RBI in those at bats is indicative of a poor hitter.  

I at no time have judged the coach or said he should have done X or Y.  I think it is a tough spot to manage 19 kids you have never seen before and can barely practice outside due to weather.  

My premise was entirely about how my son could maximize his chances to show what he can do in a tough situation for him and the coach.  

Coaches don’t judge players they selected for the team in seven at bats unless they look completely overwhelmed at the plate. They’re judging their development daily in practice and games over the course of the season.

My son was the heir to shortstop starting in 8th grade. Soph year he started the season 1-9. The coach hadn’t made up his mind he wasn’t a player. He sent him down to JV for one non conference game and told him to relax. The next two varsity games he went 4-6 with four rbi’s. He was now 5-15 (.333).

The funny thing is he made better contact going 1-9. But the hits started him on the path to an all conference season. The coach barely talked to him all season other than baseball instruction. My son never knew where he stood from game to game. At the end of the season the coach told my son he expected him to own the league the following year. 

By your parameters starting 1-9 and getting sent down for a game would have been the end of the world. Sometimes you just have to believe and keep plugging. 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

3and2Fastball posted:

Ultimately if he's running 7-7.3 and throwing 80 as a Soph, with a plus glove, he's got a strong foundation to work with.  Just tell him to  work hard, he'll get opportunities.

 

Thanks!  Just frustrating when you see your kid frustrated.  You want to help your kid solve their issues, but some have no easy solution and this may be one of those times.  Time will tell...

I can see where the kid gets the frustration gene. I’ll guessing you reinforce his frustration daily. No one ever got better by getting frustrated and complaining. Players get better with determination and work ethic.

Did this thread beat “Tebow” for most posts in the first eight hours?