Venting...When is it a must swing...tough start to a season!

coach2709 posted:

Has this really went on for 3 pages????  I read the first page and knew right away we have a coach hater.  It's funny he wonders why we "blindly" accept coaches as always being right but my question back is "why would we blindly accept an upset parent is right"?

Must be tough to have the whole world out to get you all the time.  Moving on.......

Just to follow-up on this, because coach hater is just not true.  We have lived in 3 states since my son started playing baseball.  Between little league, all star teams, travel, legion and now high school he has had something like 15 + head coaches.  We had one dad in little league who was awful. Did not even show up to nominate all star players.  

He has played on 5 different travel teams.  One of 5 was a coaching issue.  They were good, but yelled non-stop and were dicks.  A great program but many leave because they are mean.  So, 4 out of 5 were good.  Some my son batted at top, others he did not. One was a paid sponsor team and he was not good enough to play at top.  

Both legion coaches were great, freshman coach was great.  14U babe ruth coach was terrible but loved my son and he had the most playing time by far.

So, 2-3 bad out of 15...and now just an experienced coach.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

Has this really went on for 3 pages????  I read the first page and knew right away we have a coach hater.  It's funny he wonders why we "blindly" accept coaches as always being right but my question back is "why would we blindly accept an upset parent is right"?

Must be tough to have the whole world out to get you all the time.  Moving on.......

Unreal.  Actually I think the coach is a nice guy in a tough spot who is just drawing too fast of a conclusion.  I have never indicated that I want to in any way try and talk to the coach, get him in trouble or really anything about him.  

The post was about WHAT COULD MY SON DO to turn around the coaches opinion.  If taking a chance was worth it. If it could change the current pattern. If trying to drive his not ideal pitch was worth it.  But, all you saw was coach hater.  

Just your name! LOL

And Ironhorse and coach2709, this hasn't been three pages about the 3:1 pitch...this has been three pages in trying to get this dad to see reason.  He doesn't.  End of story.

Steve A., I LOVED paperchase! Good summation! You forgot the smile at the end though....he played it so cool, lol!

P.S. FOUR pages...the earlier mention of a three page thread was just fake news...I was ahead of the curve.

atlnon posted:

...What we are telling you is that there's an underlying principle behind that question ...

And this is why I do not think it is absurd or preposterous that this thread has gone on for four pages.  It is about so much more than taking or not taking a 3-1 pitch.

atlnon posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

I think you are taking a bridge too far..Can't say I have ever been accused of being a bad parent.  Especially by someone I don't know based on a baseball string.  The internet is an amazing place...

The conversation is about swinging at a pitch that was called a STRIKE, it did not bounce in.  It was just a 3-1 count and not his ideal pitch.  About whether taking a chance on that pitch was a good idea.  If it could have turned around a coaches opinion and led to more chances to prove a player's worth.  It is not an indictment on America, baseball ethics or parenting.  

The coach did not call a take, which he could have done, eliminating any chance of a swing.  He left it up to the hitter to be aggressive if he deemed fit.  My son choose to be conservative and this conversation was about if he could have been better served being less conservative.  

 

We crossed that bridge when you admitted that taking that 3-1 pitch and eventually getting walked is what's best for the team, but you think that your son should have swung at that 3-1 pitch bec it could be what's better for him personally (to get more playing time).  All your justification and explanation is all about how to further your son's playing time regardless of what's best for the team.  You further justified it by saying that the team and the game doesn't matter bec it's JV and there's no playoffs.  I can put all your relevant post here but I don't feel like going back to all 3 pages of postings.

Yes, your question is about taking a chance on that pitch.  What we are telling you is that there's an underlying principle behind that question that is all about how to get your son more playing time regardless of what's best for the team, as oppose to teaching your son to earn more playing time and to impress his coach by placing the team first all the time, working hard at practice, showing that he understand whatever role he's been given in the team, performing his role well, and willing to do whatever it takes for the team.

Not for nothing but the team lost 5-1.  The team is 1-4 now and batting under .200 as a team.  Kids that helped the Freshman team finish with just 4 losses share a lot of time with kids who as juniors could not make varsity, sat the bench on JV last year and now are now not performing on JV.  

Go team! 

Would I rather have my son get to play more and help contribute to winning, as he as proven for years he can do.  Yes, I am guilty.  I also don't believe that most posters on here don't  think the same.  If it was your son who was losing playing time you would  come to the reality that it is make a play or continue to lose more playing time.  I simply don't think you really believe the utopian blah, blah, blah you are indicating.  

All I told my son to do was consider taking a chance on that 3-1 pitch and change the current dynamic.  If you were being less self righteous I think you admit you would give your son the same advice. 

Success comes from taking advantage of opportunities. Bash away...

Golfman25 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

cabbagedad posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Golfman25 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

That is all great in theory.  But, I have given you a real world scenario where the coach is clearly with his actions indicating that without HITS, playing time will be reduced.  Cause that is what is happening.  it is not theoretical.  

 

Actually, you don't have solid evidence of that.  You have one situation, in one game where your kid got pulled.  You think it was because he walked.  Unless your coach is a real clown (and I know them when I see them), I could almost guarantee that is not the case.  

Not true. I have a 4 game pattern of getting pulled before a 3rd at bat and then in the final game getting pulled before a 2nd at bat.  

Uhhh, if I have 19 on my JV roster, most everyone is getting pulled after their 2nd or 3rd AB in most games.  

You even said this in a previous post...

"The coach did not say he got pulled because of that pitch and I don't believe he did. " 

Yes, I don't believe he did.  I don't think the coach said, damn it that kid should have hit that pitch.  I think he did not see anything to change his current thinking on my son, so he pulled him. 

I also think if that at bat was a double, he would not have pulled him.  

Both things can be true at the same time...

You don't know that.  The pattern seems to be -- a couple of at bats, then little Johnny gets his turn.  

Look, we have a bad coach.  He is the head clown.  Can't judge talent, doesn't know the game very well, makes bonehead decisions.  I have seen it all.  Guys that are 0 fer their career being the DH.  Kids moving up and down the lineup with no baseball rational at all.  Kids playing way out of position.  Pinch hitting for kids as they step into the box.  Not pinch hitting when your down by a crap load of runs and the game is over.  We had a kid who struck out almost every at bat, who was kept in the same spot in the line up, while others had to fight for their lives to stay relevant.  Nothing makes sense.  Trying to figure out a bad coach's next move is impossible because there is not rational reason for it -- it just happens. 

But the worst thing you can do is judge every at bat by the result.  You have to judge it by the at bat itself.  If you go up pressing for a hit, because you think you need it to stay in the line up, more bad than good will happen.  If you go up and focus on having have a good at bat, eventually everything works out.  

Exactly what I have been trying to say.  Have a good approach, and you'll have better AB's.  Better AB's lead to more AB's...

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

All I told my son to do was consider taking a chance on that 3-1 pitch and change the current dynamic.  If you were being less self righteous I think you admit you would give your son the same advice. 

Success comes from taking advantage of opportunities. Bash away...

 

The problem is you gave him bad advice, based on after the fact knowledge that the next pitch was in the dirt and he walked.  What if the the next pitch was dead nuts belt high down the middle?  A perfect BP pitch that he could have put in the next county.  Each pitch is an individual event.  You know the past -- the count.  You know the present -- where that pitch is.  You don't know the future.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

Would I rather have my son get to play more and help contribute to winning, as he as proven for years he can do.  Yes, I am guilty.  I also don't believe that most posters on here don't  think the same.  If it was your son who was losing playing time you would  come to the reality that it is make a play or continue to lose more playing time.  I simply don't think you really believe the utopian blah, blah, blah you are indicating.  

All I told my son to do was consider taking a chance on that 3-1 pitch and change the current dynamic.  If you were being less self righteous I think you admit you would give your son the same advice. 

Success comes from taking advantage of opportunities. Bash away...

 

Short answer, no, I have not, and would not even consider what you are proposing.  To be honest, the question probably would not even come up in my mind.  Whenever he was moved down to the bottom of the order, he and I would celebrate a good at-bat and turning the line up over.  When he was pulled out of his first 3 or 4 middle school game this year after 1 or 2 at bats, he just told me that the coach probably want to get other kids more playing time.  I told him that makes sense and we didn't think twice about it.  He didn't get a hit in middle school until the 5th or 6th game.  He was getting good at bats, getting on base, or lining out straight to someone in the outfield.  I told him not to worry about it.  The hit will drop sooner or later.

I've always emphasized to my son the life lessons he gets from baseball.  We've always talked about finding ways to contribute to the team and support the team regardless of what position he is at.  I always remind him that his character would shine most when he is at the bench.  Yes, I want to see him play.  But I want to see him grow up to be a man of character even more.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

atlnon posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

I think you are taking a bridge too far..Can't say I have ever been accused of being a bad parent.  Especially by someone I don't know based on a baseball string.  The internet is an amazing place...

The conversation is about swinging at a pitch that was called a STRIKE, it did not bounce in.  It was just a 3-1 count and not his ideal pitch.  About whether taking a chance on that pitch was a good idea.  If it could have turned around a coaches opinion and led to more chances to prove a player's worth.  It is not an indictment on America, baseball ethics or parenting.  

The coach did not call a take, which he could have done, eliminating any chance of a swing.  He left it up to the hitter to be aggressive if he deemed fit.  My son choose to be conservative and this conversation was about if he could have been better served being less conservative.  

 

We crossed that bridge when you admitted that taking that 3-1 pitch and eventually getting walked is what's best for the team, but you think that your son should have swung at that 3-1 pitch bec it could be what's better for him personally (to get more playing time).  All your justification and explanation is all about how to further your son's playing time regardless of what's best for the team.  You further justified it by saying that the team and the game doesn't matter bec it's JV and there's no playoffs.  I can put all your relevant post here but I don't feel like going back to all 3 pages of postings.

Yes, your question is about taking a chance on that pitch.  What we are telling you is that there's an underlying principle behind that question that is all about how to get your son more playing time regardless of what's best for the team, as oppose to teaching your son to earn more playing time and to impress his coach by placing the team first all the time, working hard at practice, showing that he understand whatever role he's been given in the team, performing his role well, and willing to do whatever it takes for the team.

Not for nothing but the team lost 5-1.  The team is 1-4 now and batting under .200 as a team.  Kids that helped the Freshman team finish with just 4 losses share a lot of time with kids who as juniors could not make varsity, sat the bench on JV last year and now are now not performing on JV.  

Go team! 

Would I rather have my son get to play more and help contribute to winning, as he as proven for years he can do.  Yes, I am guilty.  I also don't believe that most posters on here don't  think the same.  If it was your son who was losing playing time you would  come to the reality that it is make a play or continue to lose more playing time.  I simply don't think you really believe the utopian blah, blah, blah you are indicating.  

All I told my son to do was consider taking a chance on that 3-1 pitch and change the current dynamic.  If you were being less self righteous I think you admit you would give your son the same advice. 

Success comes from taking advantage of opportunities. Bash away...

 

The thing is, the older they get, the less they play.  The older they get, the more kids on a team.  The older they get, the more everyone needs exposure so they don't often play the same 5 let alone the same 9. My Son's JV coach seemed to have three rosters.  They alternated games.  So one out of three games my son would sit the entire game, pitch one game, play OF one game.  Last year as a 9th grader he usually only pitched one out of 3 games, and sat the rest.  Nothing to be done about it.  Coach may or may not have a grand vision, coach might be dumber than a box of rocks.  You have to just roll with it whatever he decides, but if your kid wants insight as to why the coach did X, he should ask the coach.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

RJM posted:

I’m going to put on the black hat. None of the following matches the rest of the thread ...

My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

He would be a D1 prospect if he grows does not mix with decent shot to play D3. Where he bats in the lineup as a soph on JV doesn’t match either. Unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game.

Are you upset your son isn’t on the path to meet your dreams of him playing college ball? His metrics aren’t that great.

0-7 isn’t a big deal. It’s statistics in extremely small numbers in horrible playing weather. As for taking on 3-1 unless the pitch is dead red in his zone it’s a take for a bottom of the lineup hitter.  As the coach instructed, unless it’s your pitch.

Relax and let it be his experience. Don’t create an environment where he avoids you after the game.

This part of the board always fascinates me. The blind faith in all coaches when the reality is they are just like the employees of any business.  Some are rockstars, most are average, some are terrible.   

So, you don't believe it is possible that a new coach can misdiagnose a potential college player over the first 5 games of a season?  That all high school coaches at the JV level know what they are doing?  

We have a Sophomore kid in town named Matt.  He has attributes off the chart.  7.0 flat 60 or better, 6'2. Big, Strong.  Exit over 85.  I have watched him play for years.  It is the town running joke that every new coach drools over him.  His older brother was very good. Bygame 3 he is out of lineup.  Messes up every other play in the field, if the pitch is over 75 he won't catch up.

In the beginning of this season he had a bomb off a slow pitcher and two seeing eye singles off average to poor pitching.  The freshman coach recognized what he was right away, as did the town legion coaches.  Not yet for the JV coach.  

We have another player, a 6'2 lefty pitchers.  Can throw in the low 80's, with a great breaker.  Excellent athlete.  He is still ramping up throwing due to winter.  Coach did not invite him to pitchers and catchers.  Did not really start him to begin the season, because he did not realize what he had.  Threw the last game and coach was like I did not realize.  

Feel free to leave your hat on, but your factually based statement "unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game" is utter nonsense.

Of course that is not the norm, but of course it also happens.  Kids have slumps, coaches try and manage large rosters it can take time.  

Where did I mention the coach? You stand out as the problem. I’ll net it out. It appears you’re frustrated your son isn’t meeting your dreams. Chances are a part time soph JV player batting last isn’t much of a prospect to be a future high school varsity regular much less a college prospect. 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

RJM posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

baseballhs posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess I'd look at it this way......you know what ended up happening....he got walked and loaded the bases.  Exactly what a 10 hole hitter is supposed to do.  He's there to get on base to allow the top of the order guys to do the damage.  If he's hitting in the 4 hole....sure, go ahead and swing for the fence and at worst get a SAC fly.  In this case, if I'm the coach, I'm thrilled he got on base....and we've got bases loaded and 1 out.  What happened next?   Did the leadoff batter hit into a DP?  If so, the coach is mad at him...and maybe it transferred to your son.    Back to back strikeouts?   Coach is mad...but again, not at your son.  

As far as what happened next.  The lead runner scored on a past ball.  The 1 and 2 hitters both weakly grounded out.  They are fast runners who have had a few seeing eye singles, but cannot really hit.  

I like your comment a lot and that it is based on the coaches perspective.  What a 10 hitter is supposed to do.  My son's goal is to show the coach he is not a 10 hitter.  Has never been and does not belong as one. 

I have never seen a scenario where a 10 hitter moves up in the lineup and gets pulled less because he drew a walk.  Have you? 

 

I would guess this has more to do with being 0-7 than it does one walk.

Do you believe  a player can be judged in 7 at bats?  That being 0-7 with multiple hard hit line drives where outfielders have to move back on the ball and 5 RBI in those at bats is indicative of a poor hitter.  

I at no time have judged the coach or said he should have done X or Y.  I think it is a tough spot to manage 19 kids you have never seen before and can barely practice outside due to weather.  

My premise was entirely about how my son could maximize his chances to show what he can do in a tough situation for him and the coach.  

Coaches don’t judge players they selected for the team in seven at bats unless they look completely overwhelmed at the plate. They’re judging their development daily in practice and games over the course of the season.

My son was the heir to shortstop starting in 8th grade. Soph year he started the season 1-9. The coach hadn’t made up his mind he wasn’t a player. He sent him down to JV for one non conference game and told him to relax. The next two varsity games he went 4-6 with four rbi’s. He was now 5-15 (.333).

The funny thing is he made better contact going 1-9. But the hits started him on the path to an all conference season. The coach barely talked to him all season other than baseball instruction. My son never knew where he stood from game to game. At the end of the season the coach told my son he expected him to own the league the following year. 

By your parameters starting 1-9 and getting sent down for a game would have been the end of the world. Sometimes you just have to believe and keep plugging. 

Again the generalizing about "coaches". Yes, most coaches or good coaches don't make their mind up fast.  But, some can and some do.  They are not all the same.  They are not all perfect.  They are also not all bad.

And, no, going 1-9 is not terrible.  It is only sucks if it causes a coach to make a premature judgement about a player that won't finish that way.   

The point of this post was to point out that sometimes situations happen which cause players to do the less than ideal or risk not getting playing time.  And, that is EVERY PLAYERS GOAL.  To play.  

The problem is YOU wanted your son to do the less than ideal thing. Your son did the right thing taking ball four. 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Coach_May posted:

Then the coach is a clown and let him lead the circus. I will tell you what I would tell my own son. Don't become a bad hitter just to stay in his line up. Unless your final destination is this HS program. 

I don't think he is a clown, I think he got put in a tough spot.  He was not really a baseball coach.  He was a really good high school player and then a juco kid for awhile and a football coach.  Our JV coach quit very late and he was available to fill in.  He is the Varsity football coach.  

Team of 19, new to this.  Not easy.  My son is a casualty, but hopefully works his way out of it.  We will see.  

Assume the victim position. I think I know what your kid’s problem is. It’s not his approach at the plate or his coach.

coach2709 posted:

Has this really went on for 3 pages????  I read the first page and knew right away we have a coach hater.  It's funny he wonders why we "blindly" accept coaches as always being right but my question back is "why would we blindly accept an upset parent is right"?

Must be tough to have the whole world out to get you all the time.  Moving on.......

As a former travel coach to 18u softball, 16u baseball I’m a little biased towards coaches. I’ve seen the good and the bad. I watched my son’s high school baseball coach develop from some WTF moments and become a much better coach. He ultimately became a very good coach. He recently purchased an academy and gave up coaching high school due to the parents. Two other coaches from the conference joined him.

There are some bad coaches. But there are a lot of delusional parents. It usually occurs when their 14u stud doesn’t make varsity freshman year or just plain hits the wall in high school.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

Has this really went on for 3 pages????  I read the first page and knew right away we have a coach hater.  It's funny he wonders why we "blindly" accept coaches as always being right but my question back is "why would we blindly accept an upset parent is right"?

Must be tough to have the whole world out to get you all the time.  Moving on.......

Just to follow-up on this, because coach hater is just not true.  We have lived in 3 states since my son started playing baseball.  Between little league, all star teams, travel, legion and now high school he has had something like 15 + head coaches.  We had one dad in little league who was awful. Did not even show up to nominate all star players.  

He has played on 5 different travel teams.  One of 5 was a coaching issue.  They were good, but yelled non-stop and were dicks.  A great program but many leave because they are mean.  So, 4 out of 5 were good.  Some my son batted at top, others he did not. One was a paid sponsor team and he was not good enough to play at top.  

Both legion coaches were great, freshman coach was great.  14U babe ruth coach was terrible but loved my son and he had the most playing time by far.

So, 2-3 bad out of 15...and now just an experienced coach.  

You realize that you have 100% made up your mind that because he took a 3-1 pitch he was removed yet there is absolutely NO, NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NOPE, ZERO evidence to back that up.  You talk about how you don't want to be misunderstood yet you don't want to afford this coach the same respect.  Has your son (not you since you don't hate coaches and have a long post that I stopped reading) even talked to the coach like someone suggested earlier?  

Your posts REEK of selfishness the way you want your son to do everything in his power to go outside of common sense baseball to "prove" something in order to get to play more.  You criticize the team for not hitting yet expect your son to be in the middle of the order when HE HASN'T GOT A SINGLE HIT YET.  Looks to me NOBODY should be hitting in the middle of the order but you have to put somebody there.  Maybe that's the next excuse you'll have for why your son isn't where you want him.

Venting and Tebow, all in the same thread???  The Apocalypse is near.

RJM posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

RJM posted:

I’m going to put on the black hat. None of the following matches the rest of the thread ...

My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

He would be a D1 prospect if he grows does not mix with decent shot to play D3. Where he bats in the lineup as a soph on JV doesn’t match either. Unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game.

Are you upset your son isn’t on the path to meet your dreams of him playing college ball? His metrics aren’t that great.

0-7 isn’t a big deal. It’s statistics in extremely small numbers in horrible playing weather. As for taking on 3-1 unless the pitch is dead red in his zone it’s a take for a bottom of the lineup hitter.  As the coach instructed, unless it’s your pitch.

Relax and let it be his experience. Don’t create an environment where he avoids you after the game.

This part of the board always fascinates me. The blind faith in all coaches when the reality is they are just like the employees of any business.  Some are rockstars, most are average, some are terrible.   

So, you don't believe it is possible that a new coach can misdiagnose a potential college player over the first 5 games of a season?  That all high school coaches at the JV level know what they are doing?  

We have a Sophomore kid in town named Matt.  He has attributes off the chart.  7.0 flat 60 or better, 6'2. Big, Strong.  Exit over 85.  I have watched him play for years.  It is the town running joke that every new coach drools over him.  His older brother was very good. Bygame 3 he is out of lineup.  Messes up every other play in the field, if the pitch is over 75 he won't catch up.

In the beginning of this season he had a bomb off a slow pitcher and two seeing eye singles off average to poor pitching.  The freshman coach recognized what he was right away, as did the town legion coaches.  Not yet for the JV coach.  

We have another player, a 6'2 lefty pitchers.  Can throw in the low 80's, with a great breaker.  Excellent athlete.  He is still ramping up throwing due to winter.  Coach did not invite him to pitchers and catchers.  Did not really start him to begin the season, because he did not realize what he had.  Threw the last game and coach was like I did not realize.  

Feel free to leave your hat on, but your factually based statement "unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game" is utter nonsense.

Of course that is not the norm, but of course it also happens.  Kids have slumps, coaches try and manage large rosters it can take time.  

Where did I mention the coach? You stand out as the problem. I’ll net it out. It appears you’re frustrated your son isn’t meeting your dreams. Chances are a part time soph JV player batting last isn’t much of a prospect to be a future high school varsity regular much less a college prospect. 

Dear RJM,

Thanks for "netting this out"  No, really. I am glad you came to the party to help before my son had his games today and tomorrow.  Now he knows you have said "chance are he is not much of a future high school varsity regular" he can adjust his plans accordingly.  

I will let him know ASAP!  He may be confused and ask why for the last several seasons of travel ball on the big field coaches have hit him lead off mostly and he has been able to hit consistently over .300 while being in the top 2 or 3 in extra base hits off kids who throw mid 80's at big tourneys. Why he was able to help those teams win some good tournaments.  Why he led the freshman team in most offensive categories.  But, I will tell him.. RJM says no.  

He may think he possibly just got off to a bad start, but he clearly is wrong.  He has hit the wall as has been indicated and should just pack it up.  

Sincerely,

A Grateful Parent! 

coach2709 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

Has this really went on for 3 pages????  I read the first page and knew right away we have a coach hater.  It's funny he wonders why we "blindly" accept coaches as always being right but my question back is "why would we blindly accept an upset parent is right"?

Must be tough to have the whole world out to get you all the time.  Moving on.......

Just to follow-up on this, because coach hater is just not true.  We have lived in 3 states since my son started playing baseball.  Between little league, all star teams, travel, legion and now high school he has had something like 15 + head coaches.  We had one dad in little league who was awful. Did not even show up to nominate all star players.  

He has played on 5 different travel teams.  One of 5 was a coaching issue.  They were good, but yelled non-stop and were dicks.  A great program but many leave because they are mean.  So, 4 out of 5 were good.  Some my son batted at top, others he did not. One was a paid sponsor team and he was not good enough to play at top.  

Both legion coaches were great, freshman coach was great.  14U babe ruth coach was terrible but loved my son and he had the most playing time by far.

So, 2-3 bad out of 15...and now just an experienced coach.  

You realize that you have 100% made up your mind that because he took a 3-1 pitch he was removed yet there is absolutely NO, NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NOPE, ZERO evidence to back that up.  You talk about how you don't want to be misunderstood yet you don't want to afford this coach the same respect.  Has your son (not you since you don't hate coaches and have a long post that I stopped reading) even talked to the coach like someone suggested earlier?  

Your posts REEK of selfishness the way you want your son to do everything in his power to go outside of common sense baseball to "prove" something in order to get to play more.  You criticize the team for not hitting yet expect your son to be in the middle of the order when HE HASN'T GOT A SINGLE HIT YET.  Looks to me NOBODY should be hitting in the middle of the order but you have to put somebody there.  Maybe that's the next excuse you'll have for why your son isn't where you want him.

  You realize the suggestion was to hit a pitch that was called a strike right?  

Cherokeeplayer posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

atlnon posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

I think you are taking a bridge too far..Can't say I have ever been accused of being a bad parent.  Especially by someone I don't know based on a baseball string.  The internet is an amazing place...

The conversation is about swinging at a pitch that was called a STRIKE, it did not bounce in.  It was just a 3-1 count and not his ideal pitch.  About whether taking a chance on that pitch was a good idea.  If it could have turned around a coaches opinion and led to more chances to prove a player's worth.  It is not an indictment on America, baseball ethics or parenting.  

The coach did not call a take, which he could have done, eliminating any chance of a swing.  He left it up to the hitter to be aggressive if he deemed fit.  My son choose to be conservative and this conversation was about if he could have been better served being less conservative.  

 

We crossed that bridge when you admitted that taking that 3-1 pitch and eventually getting walked is what's best for the team, but you think that your son should have swung at that 3-1 pitch bec it could be what's better for him personally (to get more playing time).  All your justification and explanation is all about how to further your son's playing time regardless of what's best for the team.  You further justified it by saying that the team and the game doesn't matter bec it's JV and there's no playoffs.  I can put all your relevant post here but I don't feel like going back to all 3 pages of postings.

Yes, your question is about taking a chance on that pitch.  What we are telling you is that there's an underlying principle behind that question that is all about how to get your son more playing time regardless of what's best for the team, as oppose to teaching your son to earn more playing time and to impress his coach by placing the team first all the time, working hard at practice, showing that he understand whatever role he's been given in the team, performing his role well, and willing to do whatever it takes for the team.

Not for nothing but the team lost 5-1.  The team is 1-4 now and batting under .200 as a team.  Kids that helped the Freshman team finish with just 4 losses share a lot of time with kids who as juniors could not make varsity, sat the bench on JV last year and now are now not performing on JV.  

Go team! 

Would I rather have my son get to play more and help contribute to winning, as he as proven for years he can do.  Yes, I am guilty.  I also don't believe that most posters on here don't  think the same.  If it was your son who was losing playing time you would  come to the reality that it is make a play or continue to lose more playing time.  I simply don't think you really believe the utopian blah, blah, blah you are indicating.  

All I told my son to do was consider taking a chance on that 3-1 pitch and change the current dynamic.  If you were being less self righteous I think you admit you would give your son the same advice. 

Success comes from taking advantage of opportunities. Bash away...

 

The thing is, the older they get, the less they play.  The older they get, the more kids on a team.  The older they get, the more everyone needs exposure so they don't often play the same 5 let alone the same 9. My Son's JV coach seemed to have three rosters.  They alternated games.  So one out of three games my son would sit the entire game, pitch one game, play OF one game.  Last year as a 9th grader he usually only pitched one out of 3 games, and sat the rest.  Nothing to be done about it.  Coach may or may not have a grand vision, coach might be dumber than a box of rocks.  You have to just roll with it whatever he decides, but if your kid wants insight as to why the coach did X, he should ask the coach.

That has not been the case in our program and is not the case on freshman or varsity.  On varsity the starters really never move unless one is pitching and then a bench player fills their spot when on the mound.  Freshman the same.  First year this has happened on JV.  I assume it will shake out once the coach knows the players. 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

RJM posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

RJM posted:

I’m going to put on the black hat. None of the following matches the rest of the thread ...

My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

He would be a D1 prospect if he grows does not mix with decent shot to play D3. Where he bats in the lineup as a soph on JV doesn’t match either. Unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game.

Are you upset your son isn’t on the path to meet your dreams of him playing college ball? His metrics aren’t that great.

0-7 isn’t a big deal. It’s statistics in extremely small numbers in horrible playing weather. As for taking on 3-1 unless the pitch is dead red in his zone it’s a take for a bottom of the lineup hitter.  As the coach instructed, unless it’s your pitch.

Relax and let it be his experience. Don’t create an environment where he avoids you after the game.

This part of the board always fascinates me. The blind faith in all coaches when the reality is they are just like the employees of any business.  Some are rockstars, most are average, some are terrible.   

So, you don't believe it is possible that a new coach can misdiagnose a potential college player over the first 5 games of a season?  That all high school coaches at the JV level know what they are doing?  

We have a Sophomore kid in town named Matt.  He has attributes off the chart.  7.0 flat 60 or better, 6'2. Big, Strong.  Exit over 85.  I have watched him play for years.  It is the town running joke that every new coach drools over him.  His older brother was very good. Bygame 3 he is out of lineup.  Messes up every other play in the field, if the pitch is over 75 he won't catch up.

In the beginning of this season he had a bomb off a slow pitcher and two seeing eye singles off average to poor pitching.  The freshman coach recognized what he was right away, as did the town legion coaches.  Not yet for the JV coach.  

We have another player, a 6'2 lefty pitchers.  Can throw in the low 80's, with a great breaker.  Excellent athlete.  He is still ramping up throwing due to winter.  Coach did not invite him to pitchers and catchers.  Did not really start him to begin the season, because he did not realize what he had.  Threw the last game and coach was like I did not realize.  

Feel free to leave your hat on, but your factually based statement "unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game" is utter nonsense.

Of course that is not the norm, but of course it also happens.  Kids have slumps, coaches try and manage large rosters it can take time.  

Where did I mention the coach? You stand out as the problem. I’ll net it out. It appears you’re frustrated your son isn’t meeting your dreams. Chances are a part time soph JV player batting last isn’t much of a prospect to be a future high school varsity regular much less a college prospect. 

Dear RJM,

Thanks for "netting this out"  No, really. I am glad you came to the party to help before my son had his games today and tomorrow.  Now he knows you have said "chance are he is not much of a future high school varsity regular" he can adjust his plans accordingly.  

I will let him know ASAP!  He may be confused and ask why for the last several seasons of travel ball on the big field coaches have hit him lead off mostly and he has been able to hit consistently over .300 while being in the top 2 or 3 in extra base hits off kids who throw mid 80's at big tourneys. Why he was able to help those teams win some good tournaments.  Why he led the freshman team in most offensive categories.  But, I will tell him.. RJM says no.  

He may think he possibly just got off to a bad start, but he clearly is wrong.  He has hit the wall as has been indicated and should just pack it up.  

Sincerely,

A Grateful Parent! 

My experience from many years of being a terrible, moronic coach in travel baseball, softball and boy’s and girl’s basketball, when the kid hits high school the parent is the last one to figure it out. Its why coaching high school sports has become such a nightmare.  

I wish your kid well. But half the writing is already on the wall. He’s a part time, bottom of the order JV player as a sophomore. Plus he has a hell of an obstacle to overcome ... a father who tells him to do what’s best for himself rather than the team when he doesn't know much about the game. 

Borderline pitches are rarely hit hard and as you move up in talent levels it becomes more difficult to hit them hard. 

Maybe print out that opening post and give it to the coach so he knows how great your son is since he's not showing it in games or practices.

RJM posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

RJM posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

RJM posted:

I’m going to put on the black hat. None of the following matches the rest of the thread ...

My son is a sophomore on JV.  It is not a great team.  He also plays travel and has since he was young.  Probably not a D1 player unless adds some size. He is an excellent student, wants to be a Dr. and has a decent shot to play D3 and keep playing baseball as long as possible.  Which he would love to do. 

He is just under 5’10, but is solid and strong.  Runs a 7.3 or so 60 yard dash . Exit velo low 80 ‘s and throws low 80’s. Good stats for a young sophomore, but need to improve.  

He would be a D1 prospect if he grows does not mix with decent shot to play D3. Where he bats in the lineup as a soph on JV doesn’t match either. Unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game.

Are you upset your son isn’t on the path to meet your dreams of him playing college ball? His metrics aren’t that great.

0-7 isn’t a big deal. It’s statistics in extremely small numbers in horrible playing weather. As for taking on 3-1 unless the pitch is dead red in his zone it’s a take for a bottom of the lineup hitter.  As the coach instructed, unless it’s your pitch.

Relax and let it be his experience. Don’t create an environment where he avoids you after the game.

This part of the board always fascinates me. The blind faith in all coaches when the reality is they are just like the employees of any business.  Some are rockstars, most are average, some are terrible.   

So, you don't believe it is possible that a new coach can misdiagnose a potential college player over the first 5 games of a season?  That all high school coaches at the JV level know what they are doing?  

We have a Sophomore kid in town named Matt.  He has attributes off the chart.  7.0 flat 60 or better, 6'2. Big, Strong.  Exit over 85.  I have watched him play for years.  It is the town running joke that every new coach drools over him.  His older brother was very good. Bygame 3 he is out of lineup.  Messes up every other play in the field, if the pitch is over 75 he won't catch up.

In the beginning of this season he had a bomb off a slow pitcher and two seeing eye singles off average to poor pitching.  The freshman coach recognized what he was right away, as did the town legion coaches.  Not yet for the JV coach.  

We have another player, a 6'2 lefty pitchers.  Can throw in the low 80's, with a great breaker.  Excellent athlete.  He is still ramping up throwing due to winter.  Coach did not invite him to pitchers and catchers.  Did not really start him to begin the season, because he did not realize what he had.  Threw the last game and coach was like I did not realize.  

Feel free to leave your hat on, but your factually based statement "unless he’s playing at a school like Avon Farms a college prospect isn’t batting at the bottom of the lineup on JV and getting pulled from the game" is utter nonsense.

Of course that is not the norm, but of course it also happens.  Kids have slumps, coaches try and manage large rosters it can take time.  

Where did I mention the coach? You stand out as the problem. I’ll net it out. It appears you’re frustrated your son isn’t meeting your dreams. Chances are a part time soph JV player batting last isn’t much of a prospect to be a future high school varsity regular much less a college prospect. 

Dear RJM,

Thanks for "netting this out"  No, really. I am glad you came to the party to help before my son had his games today and tomorrow.  Now he knows you have said "chance are he is not much of a future high school varsity regular" he can adjust his plans accordingly.  

I will let him know ASAP!  He may be confused and ask why for the last several seasons of travel ball on the big field coaches have hit him lead off mostly and he has been able to hit consistently over .300 while being in the top 2 or 3 in extra base hits off kids who throw mid 80's at big tourneys. Why he was able to help those teams win some good tournaments.  Why he led the freshman team in most offensive categories.  But, I will tell him.. RJM says no.  

He may think he possibly just got off to a bad start, but he clearly is wrong.  He has hit the wall as has been indicated and should just pack it up.  

Sincerely,

A Grateful Parent! 

My experience from many years of being a terrible, moronic coach in travel baseball, softball and boy’s and girl’s basketball, when the kid hits high school the parent is the last one to figure it out. Its why coaching high school sports has become such a nightmare.  

I wish your kid well. But half the writing is already on the wall. He’s a part time, bottom of the order JV player as a sophomore. Plus he has a hell of an obstacle to overcome ... a father who tells him to do what’s best for himself rather than the team when he doesn't know much about the game. 

That's quite amusing.  I love when people try and backtrack something mean they say about someone they have never seen play by "wishing him well" but can't really bring themselves to say it.  So, the next word is...BUT.  

I think you are full of crap and know it or maybe don't know it.  I have seen MANY posts on here that say, my kid normally is a great hitter, but started 0-for 6 or 7 or 10 or whatever and I am worried.  The responses are always, that is nothing if hitting the ball hard it will fall.  Probably can even find some from you.  

BUT, you got all bent out shape over the scenario in general and lost perspective and ended up passing judgement on a kid you have never seen play.  I would hope not your finest moment...

coach2709 posted:

Borderline pitches are rarely hit hard and as you move up in talent levels it becomes more difficult to hit them hard. 

Maybe print out that opening post and give it to the coach so he knows how great your son is since he's not showing it in games or practices.

Borderline pitches are hit well non-stop as you advance.  Watch any MLB game, college game.  And, not just pitches that are in the zone as this one was.  Over and over you see players line a outside curve to right field to make a difference.  Drive a low pitch out of the zone over the fence.  If good hits only happened when pitchers made mistakes and threw the batters ideal pitch baseball would be a terrible game.  

Is that ideal, no.  But, the best hitters hit non-ideal pitches all the time.  

I can't tell you the number of times I have watched a rookie come up to the majors and swing at stuff they should not.  Partly because they are fooled and partly because they want to make an impression.  Not get sent back down, they are thinking their interests first.  

It is part of the game. Hell, it is part of life. Part of capitalism.  The idea that people can only create success when conditions are ideal is a failing strategy.  

Go44dad posted:

Haha, that was good. Finally, a topic that deserves a multiple page thread. Four pages for one ab in a JV game?

One last try - Tell your son to keep working hard and you understand it can be frustrating when you are not hitting like you are used to.  Maybe tell him to pick the pitches that are in his wheel house and drive them hard and good things will happen.  Tell him that there will be games he gets pulled and games he plays more and to put in extra work in practice and the cage.  Tell him you love him and are proud of him for working thru his first real rough spot and most of all, have fun.  For the love of God be there for him and recognize that this is all fleeting and a JV season will not make or break his potential college plans. 

The flip side is to tell him to swing out of his shoes at every pitch he sees so he can impress the coach and get more playing time.  Just also consider that if he swings at the 3-1 pitch, get the magical double and still gets pulled, what would be the issue then?  I understand you believe that he wouldn't have been pulled and no one can change that, but what if he still had been pulled then what???  Also consider that in 4 pages no one has said, yes, he should have swung at the pitch, maybe he really did do the right thing in spite of your belief.   

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

Has this really went on for 3 pages????  I read the first page and knew right away we have a coach hater.  It's funny he wonders why we "blindly" accept coaches as always being right but my question back is "why would we blindly accept an upset parent is right"?

Must be tough to have the whole world out to get you all the time.  Moving on.......

Just to follow-up on this, because coach hater is just not true.  We have lived in 3 states since my son started playing baseball.  Between little league, all star teams, travel, legion and now high school he has had something like 15 + head coaches.  We had one dad in little league who was awful. Did not even show up to nominate all star players.  

He has played on 5 different travel teams.  One of 5 was a coaching issue.  They were good, but yelled non-stop and were dicks.  A great program but many leave because they are mean.  So, 4 out of 5 were good.  Some my son batted at top, others he did not. One was a paid sponsor team and he was not good enough to play at top.  

Both legion coaches were great, freshman coach was great.  14U babe ruth coach was terrible but loved my son and he had the most playing time by far.

So, 2-3 bad out of 15...and now just an experienced coach.  

You realize that you have 100% made up your mind that because he took a 3-1 pitch he was removed yet there is absolutely NO, NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NOPE, ZERO evidence to back that up.  You talk about how you don't want to be misunderstood yet you don't want to afford this coach the same respect.  Has your son (not you since you don't hate coaches and have a long post that I stopped reading) even talked to the coach like someone suggested earlier?  

Your posts REEK of selfishness the way you want your son to do everything in his power to go outside of common sense baseball to "prove" something in order to get to play more.  You criticize the team for not hitting yet expect your son to be in the middle of the order when HE HASN'T GOT A SINGLE HIT YET.  Looks to me NOBODY should be hitting in the middle of the order but you have to put somebody there.  Maybe that's the next excuse you'll have for why your son isn't where you want him.

 

  You realize the suggestion was to hit a pitch that was called a strike right?  

Have you ever seen a pitch called a strike that wasn't a strike?  Were you in the batter's box?  Of course you weren't.  I have sat at games and thought a pitch was a strike, but someone from another vantage point clearly believes it was a ball.  Either way, it was apparently a border line pitch.  

Your examples of pro guys hitting borderline pitches, pitches out of the strike zone, etc. are terrible comparisons to your sons situation.  More times than not, your son was going to get himself out.

Here is an example:  

Talked to my son the other night.  He was going to pitch the following night, and he was pretty confident that he would handle the other team.  Why? Because he thought they swung for the fences, and they would "Get themselves Out"!  

Your son ABSOLUTELY, 100% did the right thing!  He is a struggling, #10 hitter, that gets to play part time.  He had a good approach and didn't get himself out.  Good for him.  If he keeps swinging at pitches that he can handle, and laying off the ones he doesn't think he can, he will be in a much better place.

Thanks!  We def stay very positive and if he asks, we go and hit more after practice.  He knows he can only control his approach and do his best to hit the ball hard and whatever happens, happens.  

Your question if he still got pulled anyway.  Well, then nothing.  All he can do is try and perform.  Take advantage of the chances provided.  His effort is up to him, if the balls fall is up to the baseball gods.  If he plays is up to the coach. He wouldn't argue with a coach or be disrespectful and neither would I.  He can just keep trying to perform to impress him and get more time.  

Me and my son both know that it is more likely he does not play in college than he does.  That there are many factors.  Many.  Hell, If he does not get into a school that will let him be pre-med and play baseball he would give up baseball anyway more than likely.  

I think that is the point that sooo many coaches lose sight of in this team versus individual discussion.  So many posters jumping up and down about team over individual.  Maybe it is not about that. They lose sight over the kids perspective, because they are kids looking to have fun and play a game.  For almost every kid they coach this is the last 4 years of their entire life they get to play baseball.  And, only in Varsity are they playing to win something.  Have a chance at some title.  The rest of the time they just want to play a game that they will never get to play again.  

Varsity coaches that pull Sophomores up to get 5  at bats all season and justify it by saying it is better for them or they are gaining valuable experience for next season.   Sure, they may end up helping the team or it may not.  But, really what it probably did is took one of the last 3 years of actual game play away from a 15 year old.  

So much outrage over swinging at a 3-1 strike to possibly earn more playing time.  To try and play more before it is over over. I think maybe some folks would benefit from taking a step back and looking at this from a diff perspective.  

rynoattack posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

Has this really went on for 3 pages????  I read the first page and knew right away we have a coach hater.  It's funny he wonders why we "blindly" accept coaches as always being right but my question back is "why would we blindly accept an upset parent is right"?

Must be tough to have the whole world out to get you all the time.  Moving on.......

Just to follow-up on this, because coach hater is just not true.  We have lived in 3 states since my son started playing baseball.  Between little league, all star teams, travel, legion and now high school he has had something like 15 + head coaches.  We had one dad in little league who was awful. Did not even show up to nominate all star players.  

He has played on 5 different travel teams.  One of 5 was a coaching issue.  They were good, but yelled non-stop and were dicks.  A great program but many leave because they are mean.  So, 4 out of 5 were good.  Some my son batted at top, others he did not. One was a paid sponsor team and he was not good enough to play at top.  

Both legion coaches were great, freshman coach was great.  14U babe ruth coach was terrible but loved my son and he had the most playing time by far.

So, 2-3 bad out of 15...and now just an experienced coach.  

You realize that you have 100% made up your mind that because he took a 3-1 pitch he was removed yet there is absolutely NO, NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NOPE, ZERO evidence to back that up.  You talk about how you don't want to be misunderstood yet you don't want to afford this coach the same respect.  Has your son (not you since you don't hate coaches and have a long post that I stopped reading) even talked to the coach like someone suggested earlier?  

Your posts REEK of selfishness the way you want your son to do everything in his power to go outside of common sense baseball to "prove" something in order to get to play more.  You criticize the team for not hitting yet expect your son to be in the middle of the order when HE HASN'T GOT A SINGLE HIT YET.  Looks to me NOBODY should be hitting in the middle of the order but you have to put somebody there.  Maybe that's the next excuse you'll have for why your son isn't where you want him.

 

  You realize the suggestion was to hit a pitch that was called a strike right?  

Have you ever seen a pitch called a strike that wasn't a strike?  Were you in the batter's box?  Of course you weren't.  I have sat at games and thought a pitch was a strike, but someone from another vantage point clearly believes it was a ball.  Either way, it was apparently a border line pitch.  

Your examples of pro guys hitting borderline pitches, pitches out of the strike zone, etc. are terrible comparisons to your sons situation.  More times than not, your son was going to get himself out.

Here is an example:  

Talked to my son the other night.  He was going to pitch the following night, and he was pretty confident that he would handle the other team.  Why? Because he thought they swung for the fences, and they would "Get themselves Out"!  

Your son ABSOLUTELY, 100% did the right thing!  He is a struggling, #10 hitter, that gets to play part time.  He had a good approach and didn't get himself out.  Good for him.  If he keeps swinging at pitches that he can handle, and laying off the ones he doesn't think he can, he will be in a much better place.

So, is your definition of a "struggling #10 hitter" someone who is 0-7 with 5 RBI and the last two batted balls were deep line drive outs that moved the left and right fielder back.  

What if those two balls were 10 feet in either direction and would have been doubles.  It would have been the exact same contact.  That batter with the exact same contact is batting .285 with extra base power to both fields.  

To me a struggling hitter is someone who looks lost, has struck out multiple times or can only generate weak contact regardless of position in the order. Is not bringing in runs when they are in scoring position. 

PSA: When you hit the 'quote' button, you can delete most of what is copied, and leave just the part you are ummm quoting.

I thought I would pick up the wounded during this brief truce period. Carry on. 

Maybe send the coach an email detailing his historical travel ball OPS as evidence he should be leadoff??

Hey, great comment Steve A, but someone beat you to that joke...maybe next time...

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Hey, great comment Steve A, but someone beat you to that joke...maybe next time...

Yeah, I'm usually late to the party! Seriously though. Just chill out on it. You don't need to do anything & all your boy needs to do is keep giving it his best & things will work themselves out one way or another. These years go fast. Encourage him & let him have fun. The coach may be clueless or the best but you have no control.

haha.  Thanks and I am.  This is just a post that people got super worked up over.  I guess I offended some peoples delicate baseball let's all hold hands and sacrifice for the greater good of JV baseball sensitivity.  This was discussed for less than half of a car ride home in my house and not again.  But to me a fun and interesting baseball debate online. 

It is possible my son does not even recall the conversation as his brain likely strayed to school and some girl.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

So much outrage over swinging at a 3-1 strike to possibly earn more playing time.  To try and play more before it is over over. I think maybe some folks would benefit from taking a step back and looking at this from a diff perspective.  

So much outrage whether or not to swing at a 3-1 strike.  

I think maybe you would benefit from taking a step back and looking at this from a diff perspective.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

So much outrage over swinging at a 3-1 strike to possibly earn more playing time.  To try and play more before it is over over. I think maybe some folks would benefit from taking a step back and looking at this from a diff perspective.  

Okay, but you need to take a step back and consider the following:

In this thread you have had opinions from:

• High school coaches
• Travel coaches
• Professional scouts
• College players
• College coaches

They have all said the player did the right thing.

The only person saying the player was wrong:

• The player's dad

There are some very experienced people telling you that your advice wasn't good, and that it wasn't going to produce the results you seek. They've explained why. It's your choice to listen or not - but just realize that you aren't getting advice from people who haven't been in your shoes, or the shoes of the coaches your son will play for. I haven't always liked things I was told, but the advice was rooted in experience - and more often that not it turned out to be correct.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

haha.  Thanks and I am.  This is just a post that people got super worked up over.  I guess I offended some peoples delicate baseball let's all hold hands and sacrifice for the greater good of JV baseball sensitivity.  This was discussed for less than half of a car ride home in my house and not again.  But to me a fun and interesting baseball debate online. 

It is possible my son does not even recall the conversation as his brain likely strayed to school and some girl.  

Hey I will give you this. You did stir it up & I like that! I think your new handle should be The Straw.... take care & keep stirring.

Rob T posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

So much outrage over swinging at a 3-1 strike to possibly earn more playing time.  To try and play more before it is over over. I think maybe some folks would benefit from taking a step back and looking at this from a diff perspective.  

Okay, but you need to take a step back and consider the following:

In this thread you have had opinions from:

• High school coaches
• Travel coaches
• Professional scouts
• College players
• College coaches

They have all said the player did the right thing.

The only person saying the player was wrong:

• The player's dad

There are some very experienced people telling you that your advice wasn't good, and that it wasn't going to produce the results you seek. They've explained why. It's your choice to listen or not - but just realize that you aren't getting advice from people who haven't been in your shoes, or the shoes of the coaches your son will play for. I haven't always liked things I was told, but the advice was rooted in experience - and more often that not it turned out to be correct.

 

Thanks and believe me I do.  A lot of what was posted I think was well thought out and with good intentions.  A few were just being dicks as was to be expected. I took all of it in and none of it was communicated to my son.  We had a discussion and he will decide for himself how he will handle.  The way we do most things in my house. We discuss all sides and then he decides.  

I don't just throw stuff out haphazardly and I took the time to have a phone conversation with a few coaches I know and respect. Get their take.  

My issue here is this fell into the "what's best for the team" end all be all logic.  And I think some disingenuous responses.   

I think most people agree (even the posters) that if that at bat resulted in a double it was MORE LIKELY he remains on the field.  That they also agree that swinging at a 3-1 fastball that was called a strike is not really crazy at all. 

In fact, let me take it a step further.  I wonder what the coaches who have posted here and most in general would have said to this hitter if they watched the 3-1 fastball strike go by and the next pitch was a nasty curve for a K and not a ball in the dirt.  I bet most of the coaches would call the player over and say..."hey, in that spot you need to act on that fastball, it was a strike, those runs need to come in, not every pitch is going to be perfect".  Or they would at least be thinking it...

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

So, is your definition of a "struggling #10 hitter" someone who is 0-7 with 5 RBI and the last two batted balls were deep line drive outs that moved the left and right fielder back.  

What if those two balls were 10 feet in either direction and would have been doubles.  It would have been the exact same contact.  That batter with the exact same contact is batting .285 with extra base power to both fields.  

To me a struggling hitter is someone who looks lost, has struck out multiple times or can only generate weak contact regardless of position in the order. Is not bringing in runs when they are in scoring position. 

You seem to think your son is the struggling hitter -- swing at a crappy pitch vs walk.  To me the kid showed real baseball sense by laying of the crappy pitch and ending up on base.  Add a few hard hit balls and it doesn't sound like a struggle to me.  

I think you are full of crap and know it or maybe don't know it.  I have seen MANY posts on here that say, my kid normally is a great hitter, but started 0-for 6 or 7 or 10 or whatever and I am worried.  The responses are always, that is nothing if hitting the ball hard it will fall.  Probably can even find some from you.  

Talk about delusion! No one said your kid is probably a great hitter. All that was discussed was the pitch in his at bat and don’t swing at bad pitches since they're hard to hit well. 

As a travel coach I have experience with parents like you who don't understand some kids don’t get over the next hurdle in the journey. I’ve witnessed it with parents of middle school and high school age players at the schools my kids attended. I’ve heard countless stories from middle, high school and travel coaches. They all start the same away as people are thinkimg here ... You won't believe this parent yada, yada, yada.

If coaches got a dollar for every parent who believes their kid is a stud and he's not, and pooled the money It would fund one hell of a party.

What kind of a travel team does your son play for where he leads off yet is a part time bottom of the lineup hitter as a soph JV player? The situation is usually the other way around. The kid leads off at school and is marginal on his travel team.

I’m done. I don’t enjoy slapping people upside the head with reality when it comes off like I'm picking on their kid. 

RJM posted:

I think you are full of crap and know it or maybe don't know it.  I have seen MANY posts on here that say, my kid normally is a great hitter, but started 0-for 6 or 7 or 10 or whatever and I am worried.  The responses are always, that is nothing if hitting the ball hard it will fall.  Probably can even find some from you.  

Talk about delusion! No one said your kid is probably a great hitter. All that was discussed was the pitch in his at bat and don’t swing at bad pitches since they're hard to hit well. 

As a travel coach I have experience with parents like you who don't understand some kids don’t get over the next hurdle in the journey. I’ve witnessed it with parents of middle school and high school age players at the schools my kids attended. I’ve heard countless stories from middle, high school and travel coaches. They all start the same away as people are thinkimg here ... You won't believe this parent yada, yada, yada.

If coaches got a dollar for every parent who believes their kid is a stud and he's not, and pooled the money It woukd fund ine hell of a party.

What kind kf a travel team does your son play for where he leads off yet is a part time bottom of the lineup hitter as a soph JV player? The situation is usually the other way around. The kid leads off at school and is marginal on his travel team.

I’m done. I don’t enjoy slapping people upside the head with reality when it comes off like I'm picking on their kid. 

 

 

 

I think I am starting to see some of your issues, simple reading comprehension.

  "I have seen MANY posts on here that say, my kid normally is a great hitter, but started 0-for 6 or 7 or 10 or whatever and I am worried.  The responses are always, that is nothing if hitting the ball hard it will fall.  Probably can even find some from you. "

This quote was not about MY KID it is referring to other people posting about their own kids and their early season struggles.  How the response from this board to 0-7 is almost always, that is NO BIG DEAL.  Because anyone that makes wholesale judgments after 7 at bats has no idea what they are talking about.

Travel team - one with their own facility with an indoor half baseball field.  All professional coaches.  Teams from 11u and up.  At the higher ages an "A" team based on ability and a "B" team to still make money. People on staff to help make videos and help educate on college recruiting.  The 15U  and 16U teams are college showcase teams in the summer mixed with PBR evaluations.  Traditional tournaments in the fall. 

I am not a delusional parent and I would not spend money on a travel team if my kid was not excelling in actual on field performance.  I have seen many people pay for their kids to ride the bench and not perform.  If my son reached that point we would switch to town baseball.  When my son fights off curves and drives mid 80's good pitchers into the gap it provides me evidence that he can actually play. When his measuresbles are in a good percentile, but not quite elite I know he could stop getting stronger or maybe keep advancing to being a decent prospect.   When he does this and still draws walks and hits .350 then I don't believe he automatically has hit some advancement wall when he goes 0-7 against average to poor JV pitching.  

It is perfectly logical for you to read my post and question the logic of swinging at the pitch or even not being a "team player".  Those are legitimate comments and you and others may be right about it and I may be wrong.  

But, you reading this and concluding that since he is in the #10 spot for one game and started 0-7 means he can't play (especially when provided background info) makes you look...well...not that smart...

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

coach2709 posted:

Borderline pitches are rarely hit hard and as you move up in talent levels it becomes more difficult to hit them hard. 

Maybe print out that opening post and give it to the coach so he knows how great your son is since he's not showing it in games or practices.

Borderline pitches are hit well non-stop as you advance.  Watch any MLB game, college game.  And, not just pitches that are in the zone as this one was.  Over and over you see players line a outside curve to right field to make a difference.  Drive a low pitch out of the zone over the fence.  If good hits only happened when pitchers made mistakes and threw the batters ideal pitch baseball would be a terrible game.  

Is that ideal, no.  But, the best hitters hit non-ideal pitches all the time.  

I can't tell you the number of times I have watched a rookie come up to the majors and swing at stuff they should not.  Partly because they are fooled and partly because they want to make an impression.  Not get sent back down, they are thinking their interests first.  

It is part of the game. Hell, it is part of life. Part of capitalism.  The idea that people can only create success when conditions are ideal is a failing strategy.  

That's really not that easy to come by.  We have an all state D1 commit in our league who doesn't make contact with bad pitches.  He's very patient and squares up well on pitches he likes.  I have the one guy on my team who can hit those pitches, any pitches.  He's swung and missed just once this year and last year 3 times total as a freshman.  But he's far from D1 material unless someone projects they can add 30mph to his max velo.