Why do some D1 colleges pick the Dumb players

I'll take your word the players are equal in ability. No one has likely watched your son more than you. That may the issue. The coaches have seen your son less. Perhaps your son and the other kid looked less equal based on the limited exposure. Even though they have both been to numerous camps, so have LOTS of kids and they can't watch them all at the same time. Their opinions of the two players are based on their exposure to them.

Many times coaches feel that the academic advisory capabilities and tutoring budget of their "high-profile" program can overcome a recruits academic deficiencies. Many times they are right if the student does his part too.

Good luck to your son. The cream almost always rises.

I don't agree with the premise that the lower ACT score is the equivalent of a "dumb" player. From the information you have provided, the only explanation obvious to me is probably the one which is hardest for us as parents to accept. That explanation is, viewed by the college coaches, the difference in the skills of the players more than offsets any ACT differences. In our family, our son went through numerous disappointments in the recruiting process. Sometimes there are no explanations and most times we, as parents, don't agree with the coaches choices when they do not involve our son. Helped us learn to move on and to find the program where our son was valued and not to look back.

You are overlooking something vita.

Coaches do not care about whether two players were equal caliber in high school.

Coaches are choosing the player who has the most potential to be the best player in college.

Two players of equal talent today may very well not be anticipated to be of equal talent tomorrow.

It's a whole different thing they are looking at.

Well maybe the coaches can say "hey, you got a low ACT socre so we can't give you that good of a scholarship because of it".
Does it work like that?

Someone I know quite well has an IQ score of 122 (in the "Superior" Range, 7% of population), but scored only 19 on the ACT coming out of high school.

Standardized tests do not tell the whole story - this kid may have more on the ball than outsiders know.

I dunno!!

There is mention of the comparison of ACT scores, billyjoe, but not GPA. Research does show that HS GPA is a better predictor of college academic success than ACT score. And if the other kid's ACT score and GPA are good enough to qualify him for admission and to play then that, along with the ability to play baseball, is all the coach needs.

A low ACT score does not make anyone "dumb", billyjoe.

My kid's I.Q. is 131 but he's learning dysabled - dyslexia and dysgraphia. His standardized scores are in the mid range. His gpa is average at best. He's no Rhodes Scholar by a long shot, but he sure ain't dumb.

Sheesh......

AParent...Agree with you 100%.

I learned when my son was being recruited a lot of the coaches look to see if these kids can take it to the next level. In my sons case he is 6'2'' and around 200 but he gets stronger every year. The coaches had been watching him for a couple of years.

As a side note to GPA, can an athelete get both and academic and an atheletic scholarship to college?

In some schools yes-- not all schools "blend"

Billie Joe--can you define "dumb" ?

I am afraid I am the dumb one TR. What does "blend" mean. Is there any restrictions from the NCAA on getting a little of both in a scholarship.

Welcome to the world of the realities of recruiting. It's very difficult to understand why some coaches make offers to some and not to others. The same way we don't understand why one player is drafted higher than another. Coaches and scouts, see things differntly than we do as parents.
Coaches choose players for their needs. This player filled his needs, for whatever reason.

Many college coaches of D1 programs, have to consider how the recruit will fit in on the field and off the field. They watch closely the players interaction with his team mates, his pre game workout, his hustle, his body language, is he a team player? Those things may weigh far more heavily in one's favor than an ACT score.

I think AParent gave a great response to your post and it is food for thought.

This may be more pronounced at the larger D-1 levels because of greater support from the academic staff (tutors, curriculum choices etc.). A coach from a top D-1 program told the parent of a high school senior with a score of 12 on the ACT test: “If you can get him eligible, I can keep him eligible”.
Why would the ACT NOT be a major factor in the coach’s decision when recruiting players? ...simple... Winning at the larger D-1 level is the goal of the D-1 coach and talent is by far the greatest factor in determining who wins and who loses (not ACT scores).

EXCEPTIONS: A player with an ACT of 28 or higher would qualify for academic money and would allow a coach to “save” his scholarship money so in my opinion this athlete would be more appealing (free player).
Some states offer free tuition (HOPE etc) based on a student’s academic achievements again “saving” athletic money.

Even with the noted exceptions the coach still HAS TO HAVE the talented players to win so there is where he is going to put his scholarship money! Welcome to big time college athletics!
Fungo

Here, in Massachusetts, SAT scores are considered to be prized possessions as valuable as the price of your home...but my question to you is...how do you know so much about the academic standing of these other boys and, furthermore, how is it you are so knowledgeable in regards to their recruiting status....perhaps these boys are not good "test takers" but still have adequate performance in the classroom...perhaps with a little extra individual attention they may actually be quite successful in the college arena...I find your classifying students who have lower SAT scores as "dumb" insulting and I sincerely hope that you are not destroying these youngmen as you sit on the sideline...appears to me to be a huge case of "sour grapes"

Colleges and universities are businesses. If they feel that the student can pay, or the parents of the student, why give a scholarship? The super star may get the scholarship as an inducement. The financially challenged (couldn't resist) may get the scholarship as a means to get an education. Athletic departnebts may have "favorite sons". Athletic scholarships are subjective at best.

THanks...there is hope for my son yet.

Billyjoe

The GPA issue has been touched on only lightly. I know from first hand experience (unfortunately) a high ACT/SAT measure potential not motivation. GPA is a much better predictor.

Tell us about the GPA for the players?

My money (and I'm guessing most coaches) will always be on the classroom worker over the more gifted -- how should I say -- grasshopper (parable of the grasshopper and the Ant.) If your motivated and focused but not gifted you can work hard enough to make it in college. If your bright but unmotivated in the long run you won't likely keep up in college.

Some kids can get away with reduced effort in HS not so much in college.

Please excuse me while I now carefully get down from my soap box

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
In some schools yes-- not all schools "blend"

Billie Joe--can you define "dumb" ?

Yes sir I will try without trying to offend anyone. Have you ever heard of the modern day high school football super star that graduates and can barely speak english or do math. Yes, it happens in baseball as well. That's my whole point except the about described players are really not super stars but more like 3 to 4 tool above average players. Why would a prestigous D1 school chase this talent. Are talented baseball players a rare commodity at the entering college level. I don't think so.

can you define sports entertainment---It may help us to undertsand your thinking and word usage.

What are "3 to 4 tool above average players" ?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
can you define sports entertainment---It may help us to undertsand your thinking and word usage.

What are "3 to 4 tool above average players" ?

Hits for power, hits for average, speed, fielding - well above average for both players

sports entertainment - huh?

Sports entertainment is listed on your profile as your occup--what the heck does it mean? I ask you and you go "HUH"? It is in your profile

Thanx for the tools bit==how many do you think are found as HS Seniors?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Sports entertainment is listed on your profile as your occup--what the heck does it mean? I ask you and you go "HUH"? It is in your profile

Thanx for the tools bit==how many do you think are found as HS Seniors?

All the tools exist and i'm sure that the scouts measure the HS players based on some standard they use.

Truth be known the ACT/SAT scores have absolutely nothing to do with how many tools a player has, they are mutually exclusive.

The link only reveals character, work ethic, and motivation level.

The best baseball players are not always D-1 level scholarship types, there happen to be a lot of players that opt to play in Central America and Mexico, some go up to Canada and I recently met a player that is playing in Europe. All of the ones I've met didn't give a whit about going to college.

However, as we have seen how things work we know that in the uSA the system in place as controlled by the NCAA has very specific requirements that all prospects must meet. It is supposed to be designed to give the Colleges a shot at the best players and best students. It doesn't always work out that way. I know of some athletes who are D-1's who's SAT's were 800's.

It's just how good they are and how bad a college coach wants the kid.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramrod:
Truth be known the ACT/SAT scores have absolutely nothing to do with how many tools a player has, they are mutually exclusive.

The link only reveals character, work ethic, and motivation level.

The best baseball players are not always D-1 level scholarship types, there happen to be a lot of players that opt to play in Central America and Mexico, some go up to Canada and I recently met a player that is playing in Europe. All of the ones I've met didn't give a whit about going to college.

However, as we have seen how things work we know that in the uSA the system in place as controlled by the NCAA has very specific requirements that all prospects must meet. It is supposed to be designed to give the Colleges a shot at the best players and best students. It doesn't always work out that way. I know of some athletes who are D-1's who's SAT's were 800's.

It's just how good they are and how bad a college coach wants the kid.

Good point and I guess that answers my question about college recruiters and that is that they want the best "eligble" players out there. They are not interested in the best academic prospect that is let's say a smidgen less talented than the boarderline eligible athlete. So in summary, a players academia means little to college recruiters.

I would certainly not say that a players academia means little to college coaches.

But academica is not going to weigh heavier than basic baseball skills and tools.

In a truly equal situation (equal in potential, not hs accomplishments) the academia could very well become a deciding factor.

But no, a kid with a higher ACT is not going to beat out an eligible player with a lower ACT but a smidgen more potential in a lot of schools. But keep in mind, there are some schools where that is not the case at all.

It is much more complicated than that.

Billy joe

I think you have no idea as to what is going in and yet you strive to make affirmative statements

What is sports entertainment as you have it listed in your profile ??

TR

I don't understand why you find it necessary to goad posters like billyjoe, what difference does it make whether he gives you a definition of sports entertainment?

Aren't you the one that is always reminding everyone here about sticking to the thread topic?

Why not stick to the thread topic?

quote:

Originally posted by Ramrod:
TR

I don't understand why you find it necessary to goad posters like billyjoe, what difference does it make whether he gives you a definition of sports entertainment?

Aren't you the one that is always reminding everyone here about sticking to the thread topic?

Why not stick to the thread topic?

Thank you Ramrod.

RR

And I ask why you, cannot stay with one ID?

Are you and billy joe from the xame cloth?

Sorry, TRhit good job asking a simple question. Ramrod, I don't think TR is "goading" this time. WE just wanted to know what Billie Joe's definition of Sports Ent. is. Sorry for the vulgarity in my previous post.

Sorry...
Isnt professional wrestlings business moniker "Sports Entertainment"?

Backdash, it sure is! As Hulk Hogan once said "What ya gonna do when 60 some odd years of TRhit starts yelling at you?" Sorry about the age poke TR.

Is Limon back?

AK
No Offense taken

It took me a long time to get to this stage so don't knock--I hope you are a happy as I am when you get to the same age

By the way, did you get the resposne to your PM?

TRhit,
Yes I did get it. I appriciate you responding. Is there anyone who might know the answer to my question?

Is that Limom 84? Where did she go? She was always one of my favorites.

OHHHHHHHH DEAR!!

PiC has re-emerged...now you want to resurrect Limom!!??

Go to your corner!

PA mom,
You have a PM from me.

quote:

Originally posted by AKBaseball20:
Sorry, TRhit good job asking a simple question. Ramrod, I don't think TR is "goading" this time. WE just wanted to know what Billie Joe's definition of Sports Ent. is. Sorry for the vulgarity in my previous post.

I'm not sure why everyone is trying to get into my personal business or who all these people you are talking about.
Here is a simple answer for you - None of your business.