What is done is done and the participants in this unfortunate debacle will have to pay the consequences.
From this point forward I hope that you coaches out there, as well as the ones involved will use this as a teaching moment. Communicate to your players what their alternatives are when something like this happens, I am sure a lot of them don't even know what they can and cannot do.
Take a moment (coaches and players) and review
Pursuing Victory with Honor Pursuing Victory with Honor
Coaches Code
Players
I understand the purpose for the rules on automatic suspension for leaving the bench....just real tough to have your son sit on a bench while some of his teammates are being attack...there is something about backing up a teammate. I can't imagine my son sitting on a bench while his teammates are being attack or me being proud that he stayed on the bench.
I hope the punishments are appropriate to the actions of each player.
I hope the punishments are appropriate to the actions of each player.
It is hard to believe that young men of this age would sit on the bench while something of this nature unfolded on the field.
Surely the coach or coaches from either side sensed something was about to blow. Might have been a prudent move to call for time, tell your players to stay put, or close the dugout door if possible.
It's lose/lose when stuff like this goes down.
Surely the coach or coaches from either side sensed something was about to blow. Might have been a prudent move to call for time, tell your players to stay put, or close the dugout door if possible.
It's lose/lose when stuff like this goes down.
That coach should be fired. He did not act like a HIGH SCHOOL educator. Boom, he's gone.
The kid's should have some punishment also, but if I said something like that there is no way in heck i would expect to be at the same postion the next day, regardless of my 20 years without calling people's moms rotten things.
The kid's should have some punishment also, but if I said something like that there is no way in heck i would expect to be at the same postion the next day, regardless of my 20 years without calling people's moms rotten things.
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
…That being said, there is still NO justification for the pitcher to throw at him, or to go over and punch him as is being suggested. It might be the 'right' thing to do in our eyes (heck, I feel the same way) but there are times where a student-athlete has to put his emotions away and deal with it properly. …
I know it man not seem like it, but at its roots, this thing is really no different than all the garbage going on about bullying kids in any situation. I know you THINK the players should be disciplined enough to control themselves and their emotions, but you’re sadly mistaken if you think that of all the millions of kids playing baseball, there won’t be at least a few who would react in what would be considered an inappropriate manner, and this sad story proves it.
When bullying takes place, the person being bullied feels powerless and completely unable to deal with what’s taking place, and that’s what sounds like happened here. Would you rather have seen the kid break down, then go home and kill himself, or worse, go home and get his dad’s AK he proudly shows all his friends, then come to the next game and waste20 people?
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
That coach should be fired. He did not act like a HIGH SCHOOL educator. Boom, he's gone.
The kid's should have some punishment also, but if I said something like that there is no way in heck i would expect to be at the same postion the next day, regardless of my 20 years without calling people's moms rotten things.
I've heard, albeit second hand from another local HS coach, that it is likely that the DC coach will be fired over this. The pitcher from YC has been expelled from school, I've been told, and the catcher may be headed for the same fate. Sometimes, lessons learned the hard way have a truly heavy price.
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
…That being said, there is still NO justification for the pitcher to throw at him, or to go over and punch him as is being suggested. It might be the 'right' thing to do in our eyes (heck, I feel the same way) but there are times where a student-athlete has to put his emotions away and deal with it properly. …
I know it man not seem like it, but at its roots, this thing is really no different than all the garbage going on about bullying kids in any situation. I know you THINK the players should be disciplined enough to control themselves and their emotions, but you’re sadly mistaken if you think that of all the millions of kids playing baseball, there won’t be at least a few who would react in what would be considered an inappropriate manner, and this sad story proves it.
When bullying takes place, the person being bullied feels powerless and completely unable to deal with what’s taking place, and that’s what sounds like happened here. Would you rather have seen the kid break down, then go home and kill himself, or worse, go home and get his dad’s AK he proudly shows all his friends, then come to the next game and waste20 people?
Stats, of course NOBODY would want to see any kid go home and do anything extreme such as you mentioned. However, there are ways of dealing with the situation that would have been far more appropriate. Time could have been called (and should have been by any number of people) and the coach dealt with when he opened his yap. The YC pitcher had one tool available to him that has been used for decades in baseball, whether people like it or not, and that was he could have sent a message with one or more of his pitches. He could have brushed a guy back, or buried a fastball in a batter's ribs. He could have thrown behind a hitter. He could have then thrown over to first to pick off the runner 5, 6 or even more times. A message would have been sent if he had done any of those things. People may not like it, but many hundreds of times each season, messages are sent in exactly this manner. It has been a part of the game for as long as the game has been played. And, it is likely that had they handled things this way, nothing more would have happened other than the umpire finally calling time and issuing warnings to all concerned that he was going to start dumping people if the nonsense continued.
A few thoughts...
First, HSBBW, once again, shows it's amazing connectedness in the baseball community. A relevant event occurs and we have several posters who are right there close enough to the situation to give added in-depth, detailed follow-up stories. I think this could be the case no matter which corner of the country the event took place.
Second, I took Iheartbb's advice and used this event to discuss proper protocal with our team in the event of such confrontations, altercations, etc.
Before doing so, I took a few minutes to prepare, to think about what the proper instruction to the boys should be. That thought process was conflicted. Our HS federation gives clear guidelines (see Iheartbb's "pursuing victory with honor" and other links she provides on this thread)on what we are supposed to be teaching our student athletes. Undoubtedly, a few involved in the Yuba City incident acted way out of line and deserve harsh punishment. But there are several others involved who are in a much tougher predicament. This is where the conflict arises for me.
A few made very bad decisions that resulted in an emotionally charged altercation. As I said, those few who instigated should be harshly punished. But what about the rest of the boys? These are JV kids. It is likely that this is the first time that many of these kids were suddenly thrust into a situtation where their good friend or friends are being physically assaulted. Punches were being thrown. Emotions were running very high. Once things get to this point, do you think the boys are still thinking about the baseball game? If one of the boys getting punched repeatedly is your son, do you not want or expect his friends and teammates to come to his rescue? If you are the coach, have you not taught your players to stick together and support each other, pick each other up, particularly when times get tough? So now, we're supposed to tell the boys they should stay on the bench and watch their friends get pummelled?... so that they remain eligible for the rest of the game and the next one?... for the good of the team? I felt that, by CIF guidelines, I was required to utter similar words but I can't say that I was totally buying what was coming out of my own mouth. The boys aren't dumb. The first question that came out was "what if so-and-so was getting his $#% beat?, do we just let him?" Of course I re-directed and talked about how we avoid getting into those situations to begin with by carrying ourselves properly, etc., etc. But the truth is, that first physical altercation with friends involved is going to happen at some point for most young men. If it happens at a HS sporting event, these boys are going to face some serious conflict over doing the right thing for the team and protecting their friends from physical harm. Not an easy situation for a 14, 15, 16 year old boy.
I think I may have to give further consideration and have a "follow up" talk with the team.
Any suggestions?
First, HSBBW, once again, shows it's amazing connectedness in the baseball community. A relevant event occurs and we have several posters who are right there close enough to the situation to give added in-depth, detailed follow-up stories. I think this could be the case no matter which corner of the country the event took place.
Second, I took Iheartbb's advice and used this event to discuss proper protocal with our team in the event of such confrontations, altercations, etc.
Before doing so, I took a few minutes to prepare, to think about what the proper instruction to the boys should be. That thought process was conflicted. Our HS federation gives clear guidelines (see Iheartbb's "pursuing victory with honor" and other links she provides on this thread)on what we are supposed to be teaching our student athletes. Undoubtedly, a few involved in the Yuba City incident acted way out of line and deserve harsh punishment. But there are several others involved who are in a much tougher predicament. This is where the conflict arises for me.
A few made very bad decisions that resulted in an emotionally charged altercation. As I said, those few who instigated should be harshly punished. But what about the rest of the boys? These are JV kids. It is likely that this is the first time that many of these kids were suddenly thrust into a situtation where their good friend or friends are being physically assaulted. Punches were being thrown. Emotions were running very high. Once things get to this point, do you think the boys are still thinking about the baseball game? If one of the boys getting punched repeatedly is your son, do you not want or expect his friends and teammates to come to his rescue? If you are the coach, have you not taught your players to stick together and support each other, pick each other up, particularly when times get tough? So now, we're supposed to tell the boys they should stay on the bench and watch their friends get pummelled?... so that they remain eligible for the rest of the game and the next one?... for the good of the team? I felt that, by CIF guidelines, I was required to utter similar words but I can't say that I was totally buying what was coming out of my own mouth. The boys aren't dumb. The first question that came out was "what if so-and-so was getting his $#% beat?, do we just let him?" Of course I re-directed and talked about how we avoid getting into those situations to begin with by carrying ourselves properly, etc., etc. But the truth is, that first physical altercation with friends involved is going to happen at some point for most young men. If it happens at a HS sporting event, these boys are going to face some serious conflict over doing the right thing for the team and protecting their friends from physical harm. Not an easy situation for a 14, 15, 16 year old boy.
I think I may have to give further consideration and have a "follow up" talk with the team.
Any suggestions?
.
Punt!
Seriously...I'll have to give it some thought and get back to you. I certainly hope others will share their experiences with you if they have been in a similar circumstance.
.
Punt!
Seriously...I'll have to give it some thought and get back to you. I certainly hope others will share their experiences with you if they have been in a similar circumstance.
.
If I may chime in late on the issue of defending the honor of one's mother and whether it is acceptable or expected to do so with physical force in the context of a game:
First, as a general rule one should never let an adversary know in advance what one will do in response to a particular provocation. If, for example, a player were to say he would always react violently to an insult against his mother, then he has ceded the decision on whether he gets ejected to the other team. If he pitches poorly, the other team leaves mom out of it and lets him struggle. If he pitches well, the other team can get him removed by mentioning his mother. Why give them control by being predictably susceptible to provocation? One year my son had his worst game of the year against a team that had several of his travel buddies on it, and they let him hear about it all summer. Finally, he said, "That's it. If you mention that game one more time, I will bean you when we play next year." One guy kept it up. When my son told me about the exchange, I told him he absolutely could not bean the guy, but he could let him think he would and he could make him wonder when it might happen. When he faced the player the next year, he pounded the ball inside early in the count and struck him out three times.
Second, when an opposing coach or player insults a player's mom, he isn't attacking the lady, whom he almost certainly doesn't know well enough to have an informed opinion of her virtue. He is attempting to exploit a weakness he perceives in the player. Thus, when a player reacts badly to a provocative comment about his mother, he is not defending her honor; rather, he is validating the opposition's perceptions about his own weakness. After the player gets ejected, he may rationalize that he was defending his mother, but the reality is that he let himself get manipulated. It's never about mom.
Third, because the purpose of the comment is to gain a competitive advantage in the game, the best response is to respond only by competing more effectively. Once in high school after my son pitched against a particularly chirpy team, he commented on how much he loves it when a rowdy dugout gets quiet as they realize they're going to get beat. The only satisfactory response to any taunt is to stay in the game and win it.
First, as a general rule one should never let an adversary know in advance what one will do in response to a particular provocation. If, for example, a player were to say he would always react violently to an insult against his mother, then he has ceded the decision on whether he gets ejected to the other team. If he pitches poorly, the other team leaves mom out of it and lets him struggle. If he pitches well, the other team can get him removed by mentioning his mother. Why give them control by being predictably susceptible to provocation? One year my son had his worst game of the year against a team that had several of his travel buddies on it, and they let him hear about it all summer. Finally, he said, "That's it. If you mention that game one more time, I will bean you when we play next year." One guy kept it up. When my son told me about the exchange, I told him he absolutely could not bean the guy, but he could let him think he would and he could make him wonder when it might happen. When he faced the player the next year, he pounded the ball inside early in the count and struck him out three times.
Second, when an opposing coach or player insults a player's mom, he isn't attacking the lady, whom he almost certainly doesn't know well enough to have an informed opinion of her virtue. He is attempting to exploit a weakness he perceives in the player. Thus, when a player reacts badly to a provocative comment about his mother, he is not defending her honor; rather, he is validating the opposition's perceptions about his own weakness. After the player gets ejected, he may rationalize that he was defending his mother, but the reality is that he let himself get manipulated. It's never about mom.
Third, because the purpose of the comment is to gain a competitive advantage in the game, the best response is to respond only by competing more effectively. Once in high school after my son pitched against a particularly chirpy team, he commented on how much he loves it when a rowdy dugout gets quiet as they realize they're going to get beat. The only satisfactory response to any taunt is to stay in the game and win it.
There are other teams, and other schools, but you only have one mom.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
when an opposing coach or player insults a player's mom, ...He is attempting to exploit a weakness
Exploiting a weakness while exposing a sickness. A grown man taunting a hs kid? Sorry, the coach deserves whatever comes his way- a baseball, a fist, a firing, maybe all three.
This morning in the Yuba City Appeal Democrat newspaper, the headline story is about the basebrawl. Apparently, YCHS has kicked 8 players off the team, who will be replaced by freshmen players. The article indicates that harsher punishments may be dished out, but it does not say that anyone has been expelled from school. I did get the expulsion comments from two local high school coaches, but the news article does not indicate that anyone has been expelled at this point.
There has been no mention of any disciplinary actions toward any of the Del Campo players. Antz, to respond to your comments about their coach, I agree to a point. He deserves at least a suspension from the team, and probably should be dismissed as a coach. However, if this coach is a teacher, do you really believe he should be fired from his teaching job because of this? I do not. You're talking about someone's livlihood, and if he's a teacher and gets fired, that seems (at least to me) to be an extremely harsh over-reaction to something that happened at a baseball game. Fire him as a coach, sure. As a teacher, no way. As for your comments about a baseball or fist, maybe from the "mom's" husband, but not from the player. There is no justifying what that pitcher did, no wayy at all to justify it.
There has been no mention of any disciplinary actions toward any of the Del Campo players. Antz, to respond to your comments about their coach, I agree to a point. He deserves at least a suspension from the team, and probably should be dismissed as a coach. However, if this coach is a teacher, do you really believe he should be fired from his teaching job because of this? I do not. You're talking about someone's livlihood, and if he's a teacher and gets fired, that seems (at least to me) to be an extremely harsh over-reaction to something that happened at a baseball game. Fire him as a coach, sure. As a teacher, no way. As for your comments about a baseball or fist, maybe from the "mom's" husband, but not from the player. There is no justifying what that pitcher did, no wayy at all to justify it.
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
...if this coach is a teacher, do you really believe he should be fired from his teaching job because of this?
No, just baseball this year, but that's up to his AD. I don't think the player should be expelled, either. Neither did the right thing, so both can sit out. For me, that would be the end of it. Come back next year. And, watch what you say!!!
Make them all shake hands in public, and write "I will not be a moron" 500 times on the chalkboard, and all is forgiven.
Play ball.
Free Jaylon Deas.
Play ball.
Free Jaylon Deas.
Good enough for me!
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Stats, of course NOBODY would want to see any kid go home and do anything extreme such as you mentioned. However, there are ways of dealing with the situation that would have been far more appropriate. Time could have been called (and should have been by any number of people) and the coach dealt with when he opened his yap. The YC pitcher had one tool available to him that has been used for decades in baseball, whether people like it or not, and that was he could have sent a message with one or more of his pitches. He could have brushed a guy back, or buried a fastball in a batter's ribs. He could have thrown behind a hitter. He could have then thrown over to first to pick off the runner 5, 6 or even more times. A message would have been sent if he had done any of those things. People may not like it, but many hundreds of times each season, messages are sent in exactly this manner. It has been a part of the game for as long as the game has been played. And, it is likely that had they handled things this way, nothing more would have happened other than the umpire finally calling time and issuing warnings to all concerned that he was going to start dumping people if the nonsense continued.
Of course hindsight always provides a myriad of ways to better handle situations, but these kinds of things happen very often with little forewarning, then take place in just a few seconds.
What someone SHOULD have done is immaterial. It wasn’t done, and the situation got out of control. And as far as any amateur pitcher sending “messages”, that’s just plain BS and you know it, because its so darn dangerous. How would you feel if some kid was trying to send a message to your son, and he ended up disfigured for life? encouraging that kind of things is no different than handing the kid a loaded gun, some brass knuckles, a knife, or a billy club.
I’m sorry, but I’ve never been a big fan of condoning amateur pitchers showing how manly and tough they are by endangering someone else.
quote:What someone SHOULD have done is immaterial. It wasn’t done, and the situation got out of control. And as far as any amateur pitcher sending “messages”, that’s just plain BS and you know it, because its so darn dangerous. How would you feel if some kid was trying to send a message to your son, and he ended up disfigured for life? encouraging that kind of things is no different than handing the kid a loaded gun, some brass knuckles, a knife, or a billy club.
So throwing at a batter is dangerous and shouldn't be done, but throwing at a coach who is not expecting a ball thrown at them is perfectly okay?
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
What someone SHOULD have done is immaterial. It wasn’t done, and the situation got out of control. And as far as any amateur pitcher sending “messages”, that’s just plain BS and you know it, because its so darn dangerous. How would you feel if some kid was trying to send a message to your son, and he ended up disfigured for life? encouraging that kind of things is no different than handing the kid a loaded gun, some brass knuckles, a knife, or a billy club.
I’m sorry, but I’ve never been a big fan of condoning amateur pitchers showing how manly and tough they are by endangering someone else.
Stats, first of all, I NEVER encourage any of my players to throw at someone. And everyone who knows anything about me knows that, you can be certain that all of my many players over the years have known it. It is completely unacceptable for an adult to encourage or suggest that any pitcher throw at a batter, and in this day and age of tort law, stupid. However, what you seem to miss is that often times the players take care of these things themselves. I limit my discussions to reminding players that when they do things like throw at a batter, that the potential consequences can be serious, especially since a number of the pitchers on my 18u team throw from 88-92 mph, and that if they are going to throw at someone on their own that they'd better hit him in the butt and to never go high. I've told a number of my players that if I ever think they are head hunting that I'll immediately pull them from the game and suspend them, with possible greater consequences down the road. I've never had to do that, not once. They understand that they can hurt someone badly. I don't know any coaches who do encourage throwing at batters, but I've known plenty of pitchers (and cathers) who have no problem doing it if they think the situation calls for it. Like it or not, it is done over the course of a season. My point was that if the pitcher had thrown a ball behind the batter or put one in his ribs or rear end, they'd have sent a message to knock it off, and it is one that has been sent so many thousands of times in the history of baseball that most people understand what the message is.
Throwing at a coach or umpire, absolutely never acceptable under any circumstance.
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
This morning in the Yuba City Appeal Democrat newspaper, the headline story is about the basebrawl. Apparently, YCHS has kicked 8 players off the team, who will be replaced by freshmen players. The article indicates that harsher punishments may be dished out, but it does not say that anyone has been expelled from school. I did get the expulsion comments from two local high school coaches, but the news article does not indicate that anyone has been expelled at this point.
There has been no mention of any disciplinary actions toward any of the Del Campo players. Antz, to respond to your comments about their coach, I agree to a point. He deserves at least a suspension from the team, and probably should be dismissed as a coach. However, if this coach is a teacher, do you really believe he should be fired from his teaching job because of this? I do not. You're talking about someone's livlihood, and if he's a teacher and gets fired, that seems (at least to me) to be an extremely harsh over-reaction to something that happened at a baseball game. Fire him as a coach, sure. As a teacher, no way. As for your comments about a baseball or fist, maybe from the "mom's" husband, but not from the player. There is no justifying what that pitcher did, no wayy at all to justify it.
Yes. OF COURSE he should be fired for this offense. He started it, as an adult, and a privileged adult at that, who is supposed to be teaching and moulding the high school students. He is, as others have pointed out, bullying. That is generally against formal school policies these days.
So does he coach softball or field hockey too? Is he allowed to mouth off and say "whatever it takes" to the female athletes that the school places in position to become his victims?
Frankly, I think the attitude that it is all the kids fault, and he/them should have known better, is scandalously inappropriate. The actions of this "educator" have led to several of the children exposed to him being further victimized by the very system that is supposed to vet these idiots and prevent the children being exposed to bullying thugs. 6-8 kids kicked off team for season or forever? 2 other kids denied the public education their parents are taxed to pay for because a teacher/coach is allowed to say/do whatever he wants?.
Multiple sentences outlining better courses the kid could have taken? Like the other coaches, the umpires ie the ADULTS put in place by school authorities SPECIFICALLY to manage the event dont have the responsibility to behave appropriately?
Why do you apologists think the children involved should be held to a higher level of conduct than the adults in charge? I call Bullcrap to that
Swampboy that is a great post and I agree with it 100%. I love my mom more than anything on this earth and I'll never come close to thanking her for everything she has done for me. She is half the reason why I've turned out to be the person I am.
I would do anything for her except get in a fight to defend her honor. The reason why - she would probably beat me with a stick if I did. Yeah if someone says something about my mom I'm going to mouth back but I'm also smart enough to walk away from that because of her teaching me that.
What comes out of a fight or throwing a baseball at a coach if someone says your mom is a b***h? Well on one hand you have the fact everyone knows you won't tolerate someone talking bad about your mom. The other hand you may be thrown off your team, you may be put in jail, you may be sued if you cause bodily harm and things like that. Ask yourself this question - would your mom actually WANT you to get in a fight if all these bad things could happen to you? All of that negative stuff that could happen over WORDS - does your mom really WANT to be defended by you to that degree?
This situation is a failure on the parts of several adults - the moron coach who was saying stuff about the mom. The moron's head coach who didn't tell him to shut up is at fault. What is he teaching his players by keeping silent? That it's ok to run your mouth to the point where you start a brawl? Great lesson. The umpire who allowed the trash to start and then to keep coming. At some point he should have stopped the game and brought both head coaches together to give them a reality check to get their teams under control or people are getting dumped. Or stopped the game until site management got the crowd to settle down. At some point the pitcher has to take responsibility even if nobody has taught him how to handle himself. He has to learn the lesson somehow if nobody is teaching him at home.
There is a difference between understanding and justification but people sometimes confuse the two. It's understandable why the pitcher threw at the coach but it's not justifiable. When something is wrong but understandable you can use it as a teaching moment. People can teach this kid about right and wrong because they understand where he was coming from - he got mad because a guy spoke bad about his mom. Now punish him and then teach him about why it's wrong and other alternatives he could use to avoid getting in trouble. You can't justify the coach calling the mom a bad name and therefore it's impossible to understand where he's coming from. So drop a hammer on him and punish him. Maybe he will learn something and maybe he won't but give him rope to hang himself. I highly doubt this is his first embarassing action. If it's not then he does deserve to have his teaching job taken away.
There are other ways to handle a person insulting your mom. But I will say that if you threaten bodily harm my mom then you better bet I'm going to fight you. And I'm going to win and I'm going to put a hurting on you because you threatened my mom. But to do it just because you call her a name???? Come on.......
I would do anything for her except get in a fight to defend her honor. The reason why - she would probably beat me with a stick if I did. Yeah if someone says something about my mom I'm going to mouth back but I'm also smart enough to walk away from that because of her teaching me that.
What comes out of a fight or throwing a baseball at a coach if someone says your mom is a b***h? Well on one hand you have the fact everyone knows you won't tolerate someone talking bad about your mom. The other hand you may be thrown off your team, you may be put in jail, you may be sued if you cause bodily harm and things like that. Ask yourself this question - would your mom actually WANT you to get in a fight if all these bad things could happen to you? All of that negative stuff that could happen over WORDS - does your mom really WANT to be defended by you to that degree?
This situation is a failure on the parts of several adults - the moron coach who was saying stuff about the mom. The moron's head coach who didn't tell him to shut up is at fault. What is he teaching his players by keeping silent? That it's ok to run your mouth to the point where you start a brawl? Great lesson. The umpire who allowed the trash to start and then to keep coming. At some point he should have stopped the game and brought both head coaches together to give them a reality check to get their teams under control or people are getting dumped. Or stopped the game until site management got the crowd to settle down. At some point the pitcher has to take responsibility even if nobody has taught him how to handle himself. He has to learn the lesson somehow if nobody is teaching him at home.
There is a difference between understanding and justification but people sometimes confuse the two. It's understandable why the pitcher threw at the coach but it's not justifiable. When something is wrong but understandable you can use it as a teaching moment. People can teach this kid about right and wrong because they understand where he was coming from - he got mad because a guy spoke bad about his mom. Now punish him and then teach him about why it's wrong and other alternatives he could use to avoid getting in trouble. You can't justify the coach calling the mom a bad name and therefore it's impossible to understand where he's coming from. So drop a hammer on him and punish him. Maybe he will learn something and maybe he won't but give him rope to hang himself. I highly doubt this is his first embarassing action. If it's not then he does deserve to have his teaching job taken away.
There are other ways to handle a person insulting your mom. But I will say that if you threaten bodily harm my mom then you better bet I'm going to fight you. And I'm going to win and I'm going to put a hurting on you because you threatened my mom. But to do it just because you call her a name???? Come on.......
Once the DC coach ran his mouth on the kid's mother, then all bets are off and the DC COACH deserved whatever physical beating he could have gotten. This is supposed to be an adult of authority over kids and the coach knows the kids are at a disadvantage because of CIF rules so this coach has to be fired.
Taunting the mom right in front of the player is just so wrong. Especially coming from a coach. If it were another player then it would be a different story because they're peers and are playing by the same rules. The coach by doing what he did took advantage of the situation that caused this mess. This coach was wrong and deserved a beatdown. And to top it off this clown coach was yakking it up. How pathetic. Grown ups act like this then play high and mighty and hold the kids to a high standard. What a joke
Taunting the mom right in front of the player is just so wrong. Especially coming from a coach. If it were another player then it would be a different story because they're peers and are playing by the same rules. The coach by doing what he did took advantage of the situation that caused this mess. This coach was wrong and deserved a beatdown. And to top it off this clown coach was yakking it up. How pathetic. Grown ups act like this then play high and mighty and hold the kids to a high standard. What a joke
coach2709,
I certainly agree with the concept of “sticks and stones” being something a mature adult shouldn’t even have to think about, but how many HS JV players would you bet on thinking and acting like a mature adult? I’m certainly not condoning what that boy did, but I feel its very important to temper any punishment by not treating him as though he’s a mature adult, the way the coach should be treated.
But I wonder if anyone’s considered the possibility that all the boy was doing was “sending a message”. I.e., not trying to hit or hurt the guy, but rather sending one under his chin or sticking it in his ribs, rather than doing it to some poor kid batting, who had absolutely nothing to do with any of the name calling.
Its real easy to point fingers and say this guy was wrong because…, or that one was justified because …, but the fact is, there’s nothing good that comes out of punishing kids for something totally the fault of adults.
I certainly agree with the concept of “sticks and stones” being something a mature adult shouldn’t even have to think about, but how many HS JV players would you bet on thinking and acting like a mature adult? I’m certainly not condoning what that boy did, but I feel its very important to temper any punishment by not treating him as though he’s a mature adult, the way the coach should be treated.
But I wonder if anyone’s considered the possibility that all the boy was doing was “sending a message”. I.e., not trying to hit or hurt the guy, but rather sending one under his chin or sticking it in his ribs, rather than doing it to some poor kid batting, who had absolutely nothing to do with any of the name calling.
Its real easy to point fingers and say this guy was wrong because…, or that one was justified because …, but the fact is, there’s nothing good that comes out of punishing kids for something totally the fault of adults.
Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn with the recent posts. A couple comments seem in order.
With regard to NoReplay's comments about victimization, give me a break. Everyone in our society these days seems to be preoccupied with being a victim. The coach was 100% wrong to act like he did and say what he did, but none of those boys are victims. From what I've heard, a number of the parents in the stands, and the pitcher's mom in particular, were no angels in this either. A lot worse than what the coach said, OR THE KID'S MOM SAID, have occured on athletic fields before, and nobody suffered any long term harm, so get over the 'victim' mentality, OK?
With regard to what Zombywoof said about the coach deserving a 'beat down', get real. No matter what an idiot this coach was (and yes, I think he acted totally like an idiot. No offense to idiots intended.) condoning violence like the pitcher and catcher started is never justifiable. For those who don't know, I've been told that after the pitcher threw at the coach, that he and the catcher charged him and threw a 'chop block', a high/low tackle on the coach and started punching him. Do you really think that was justifiable? If so, I'd love to read your rationale for that.
Coach2709, you're 100% spot on with your comments.
And Stats, read that part about the pitcher and catcher attacking the coach. That is way beyond 'sending a message'. That is assault. If the kid had thrown the ball and left it at that, he'd probably have gotten a lot more consideration, and a less harsh punishment. He'd have deserved both more consideration and a less harsh punishment, and the dugouts never would have emptied if he hadn't attacked the coach. The pitcher's action AFTER throwing the ball is what triggered the mess in the video that made YouTube.
The bottom line on this mess is that just about everyone was wrong, and nobody took the high road and stopped this from happening when it could have been circumvented. The parents in the stands were wrong. The first base coach was surely 100% wrong in his behavior. Both head coaches were wrong. The umpire was wrong to not have stopped the game and gotten it back under his management. And the player who threw the ball was totally wrong, especially when he and the catcher took it further and attacked the coach. As for all the players who left the dugouts, they were wrong but are probably mostly guilty of being dumb in doing what so many other kids would do under the circumstances. I can't find anyone in the right here, plenty of blame to go all the way around.
With regard to NoReplay's comments about victimization, give me a break. Everyone in our society these days seems to be preoccupied with being a victim. The coach was 100% wrong to act like he did and say what he did, but none of those boys are victims. From what I've heard, a number of the parents in the stands, and the pitcher's mom in particular, were no angels in this either. A lot worse than what the coach said, OR THE KID'S MOM SAID, have occured on athletic fields before, and nobody suffered any long term harm, so get over the 'victim' mentality, OK?
With regard to what Zombywoof said about the coach deserving a 'beat down', get real. No matter what an idiot this coach was (and yes, I think he acted totally like an idiot. No offense to idiots intended.) condoning violence like the pitcher and catcher started is never justifiable. For those who don't know, I've been told that after the pitcher threw at the coach, that he and the catcher charged him and threw a 'chop block', a high/low tackle on the coach and started punching him. Do you really think that was justifiable? If so, I'd love to read your rationale for that.
Coach2709, you're 100% spot on with your comments.
And Stats, read that part about the pitcher and catcher attacking the coach. That is way beyond 'sending a message'. That is assault. If the kid had thrown the ball and left it at that, he'd probably have gotten a lot more consideration, and a less harsh punishment. He'd have deserved both more consideration and a less harsh punishment, and the dugouts never would have emptied if he hadn't attacked the coach. The pitcher's action AFTER throwing the ball is what triggered the mess in the video that made YouTube.
The bottom line on this mess is that just about everyone was wrong, and nobody took the high road and stopped this from happening when it could have been circumvented. The parents in the stands were wrong. The first base coach was surely 100% wrong in his behavior. Both head coaches were wrong. The umpire was wrong to not have stopped the game and gotten it back under his management. And the player who threw the ball was totally wrong, especially when he and the catcher took it further and attacked the coach. As for all the players who left the dugouts, they were wrong but are probably mostly guilty of being dumb in doing what so many other kids would do under the circumstances. I can't find anyone in the right here, plenty of blame to go all the way around.
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
coach2709,
I certainly agree with the concept of “sticks and stones” being something a mature adult shouldn’t even have to think about, but how many HS JV players would you bet on thinking and acting like a mature adult? I’m certainly not condoning what that boy did, but I feel its very important to temper any punishment by not treating him as though he’s a mature adult, the way the coach should be treated.
But I wonder if anyone’s considered the possibility that all the boy was doing was “sending a message”. I.e., not trying to hit or hurt the guy, but rather sending one under his chin or sticking it in his ribs, rather than doing it to some poor kid batting, who had absolutely nothing to do with any of the name calling.
Its real easy to point fingers and say this guy was wrong because…, or that one was justified because …, but the fact is, there’s nothing good that comes out of punishing kids for something totally the fault of adults.
So you expect a mature adult to behave accordingly and the way they should but ask me how many JV players would do that? Well honestly I don't know because how many of them were actually taught (or being taught is more appropriate) by their parents ahead of time?
How does an adult become a mature adult? You teach them when they are young kids. Young kids are going to do very dumb stuff because they don't know any better but you have to teach them and punish them when they do wrong. I've never said punish a kid like an adult and I even said in my post this is 98% the fault of the adults. But you still have to hold these kids accountable for their actions - that is how you turn them into mature adults. But punishment without teaching creates more confusion instead of solutions. The only way to turn young kids who do dumb stuff into mature adults has to have two elements - education and discipline.
I feel the hammer needs to be brought down on the moron coach. I won't go as far as saying he SHOULD be fired from teaching but I think it's justifiable to fire him from teaching if he has other incidences in his career - even if they are not this extreme.
As for the kid he needs to be punished because when he gets in the real world he will be punished. So punish him but teach him at the same time. Should he be kicked off the team depends on same as the coach - has he done other things in his past to show there is a pattern? If so then a more severe message needs to be sent.
Teach kids life is about choices - you either choose to keep your cool when someone talks trash or lose it and do something stupid. If you choose the second option then don't be surprised you were punished. I mean if having someone call your mom a name is justifiable for going off on someone then how do we have any players in the profession ranks?
How can you even say with a straight face "has anyone considered the possibility that all the boy was doing was 'sending a message'"? What's the message - "hey look at me, I'm going to do something very stupid because you're doing something stupid"?
Or how about somebody somewhere sends the players this message - "guys you are going to do everything with class and character. If someone wants to talk trash then let them. Shut them up by doing your job in the field. Those who want to do the trash talk game are weak and they are trying to make you weak. Don't play their game cause nothing good comes from it. Keep your composure and keep your cool cause it will pay off in the end for us. I have faith that you guys will do the right thing but if you don't we will handle it cause you don't embarass the program, the school, your parents or yourself."
Then when the trash talk starts you follow up with "guys they tried everything in their power to get in your head and they failed. I'm so proud of you because you won one of the biggest parts of the game in mental toughness. People who watched that game had no doubt you guys had class and character. Be proud of yourself because I am very proud of you right now."
You do this enough you would be amazed how many kids will follow it. Kids will do what you expect them to do if you lay it all out. Tell them the expectations, tell them how to act and tell them what the repercussions are and I bet they will do the right thing 90% of the time. The other 10% is when you earn your money in teaching them how to act through discipline and teaching.
It's not brain surgery.
Very well said, Coach. 
I am surprised at the number of people who continue to assert that it's expected or proper to descend to the level of one's coarsest antagonist if he insults one's mother.
Let's see if this idea really holds water.
Consider the scenario in which you the ballplayer are the son of a virtuous mother and you resolve daily to honor your mother at all times.
Then one day, suddenly and unexpectedly in the midst of a game you are pitching, an opposing coach yells out the most base aspersion against your mother's character.
Which of the following courses of action brings more honor to your mother?
Plan A: Initiate a brawl that gets viewed about a million times on YouTube and gets you thrown off the team, expelled from school, and subjected to a police inquiry; or
Plan B: Maintain your composure, trust that anyone who knows your mother will not believe the accusation, concentrate on each pitch, demonstrate that your mother raised you not to act like an idiot just because you encounter an idiot, and let your coach take up the matter through the proper channels afterwards.
How many moms here hope your son chooses Plan A? How many hope he chooses Plan B?
Let's see if this idea really holds water.
Consider the scenario in which you the ballplayer are the son of a virtuous mother and you resolve daily to honor your mother at all times.
Then one day, suddenly and unexpectedly in the midst of a game you are pitching, an opposing coach yells out the most base aspersion against your mother's character.
Which of the following courses of action brings more honor to your mother?
Plan A: Initiate a brawl that gets viewed about a million times on YouTube and gets you thrown off the team, expelled from school, and subjected to a police inquiry; or
Plan B: Maintain your composure, trust that anyone who knows your mother will not believe the accusation, concentrate on each pitch, demonstrate that your mother raised you not to act like an idiot just because you encounter an idiot, and let your coach take up the matter through the proper channels afterwards.
How many moms here hope your son chooses Plan A? How many hope he chooses Plan B?
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn with the recent posts. A couple comments seem in order.
With regard to NoReplay's comments about victimization, give me a break. Everyone in our society these days seems to be preoccupied with being a victim. The coach was 100% wrong to act like he did and say what he did, but none of those boys are victims. From what I've heard, a number of the parents in the stands, and the pitcher's mom in particular, were no angels in this either. A lot worse than what the coach said, OR THE KID'S MOM SAID, have occured on athletic fields before, and nobody suffered any long term harm, so get over the 'victim' mentality, OK?
With regard to what Zombywoof said about the coach deserving a 'beat down', get real. No matter what an idiot this coach was (and yes, I think he acted totally like an idiot. No offense to idiots intended.) condoning violence like the pitcher and catcher started is never justifiable. For those who don't know, I've been told that after the pitcher threw at the coach, that he and the catcher charged him and threw a 'chop block', a high/low tackle on the coach and started punching him. Do you really think that was justifiable? If so, I'd love to read your rationale for
There's no sympathy for that clown coach for running his mouth the way he did. This whole thing could've been avoided if the adults did their job and kept things under control. There's plenty of blame to go around and the players involved shouldn't get off scott free but if this coach don't get fired, I see no reason to punish or expel any players
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
I am surprised at the number of people who continue to assert that it's expected or proper to descend to the level of one's coarsest antagonist if he insults one's mother.
Let's see if this idea really holds water.
Consider the scenario in which you the ballplayer are the son of a virtuous mother and you resolve daily to honor your mother at all times.
Then one day, suddenly and unexpectedly in the midst of a game you are pitching, an opposing coach yells out the most base aspersion against your mother's character.
Which of the following courses of action brings more honor to your mother?
Plan A: Initiate a brawl that gets viewed about a million times on YouTube and gets you thrown off the team, expelled from school, and subjected to a police inquiry; or
Plan B: Maintain your composure, trust that anyone who knows your mother will not believe the accusation, concentrate on each pitch, demonstrate that your mother raised you not to act like an idiot just because you encounter an idiot, and let your coach take up the matter through the proper channels afterwards.
How many moms here hope your son chooses Plan A? How many hope he chooses Plan B?
Oh man, this post made my day. I'm still laughing at it, even though you were (I think) being very serious.
So well put.
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn with the recent posts. A couple comments seem
With regard to what Zombywoof said about the coach deserving a 'beat down', get real. No matter what an idiot this coach was (and yes, I think he acted totally like an idiot. No offense to idiots intended.) condoning violence like the pitcher and catcher started is never justifiable. For those who don't know, I've been told that after the pitcher threw at the coach, that he and the catcher charged him and threw a 'chop block', a high/low tackle on the coach and started punching him. Do you really think that was justifiable? If so, I'd love to read your rationale for
There's no sympathy for that clown coach for running his mouth the way he did. This whole thing could've been avoided if the adults did their job and kept things under control. There's plenty of blame to go around and the players involved shouldn't get off scott free but if this coach don't get fired, I see no reason to punish or expel any players
quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
A few thoughts...
First, HSBBW, once again, shows it's amazing connectedness in the baseball community. A relevant event occurs and we have several posters who are right there close enough to the situation to give added in-depth, detailed follow-up stories. I think this could be the case no matter which corner of the country the event took place.
Second, I took Iheartbb's advice and used this event to discuss proper protocal with our team in the event of such confrontations, altercations, etc.
Before doing so, I took a few minutes to prepare, to think about what the proper instruction to the boys should be. That thought process was conflicted. Our HS federation gives clear guidelines (see Iheartbb's "pursuing victory with honor" and other links she provides on this thread)on what we are supposed to be teaching our student athletes. Undoubtedly, a few involved in the Yuba City incident acted way out of line and deserve harsh punishment. But there are several others involved who are in a much tougher predicament. This is where the conflict arises for me.
A few made very bad decisions that resulted in an emotionally charged altercation. As I said, those few who instigated should be harshly punished. But what about the rest of the boys? These are JV kids. It is likely that this is the first time that many of these kids were suddenly thrust into a situtation where their good friend or friends are being physically assaulted. Punches were being thrown. Emotions were running very high. Once things get to this point, do you think the boys are still thinking about the baseball game? If one of the boys getting punched repeatedly is your son, do you not want or expect his friends and teammates to come to his rescue? If you are the coach, have you not taught your players to stick together and support each other, pick each other up, particularly when times get tough? So now, we're supposed to tell the boys they should stay on the bench and watch their friends get pummelled?... so that they remain eligible for the rest of the game and the next one?... for the good of the team? I felt that, by CIF guidelines, I was required to utter similar words but I can't say that I was totally buying what was coming out of my own mouth. The boys aren't dumb. The first question that came out was "what if so-and-so was getting his $#% beat?, do we just let him?" Of course I re-directed and talked about how we avoid getting into those situations to begin with by carrying ourselves properly, etc., etc. But the truth is, that first physical altercation with friends involved is going to happen at some point for most young men. If it happens at a HS sporting event, these boys are going to face some serious conflict over doing the right thing for the team and protecting their friends from physical harm. Not an easy situation for a 14, 15, 16 year old boy.
I think I may have to give further consideration and have a "follow up" talk with the team.
Any suggestions?
I just finished reading this entire thread and watched the youtube video. What an ugly and unfortunate situation for the players, coaches, parents, and administrators to deal with. Ironically, I had driven through Yuba City earlier this week while taking my daughter on a college road trip to a few universities in Northern California.
As for suggestions for cabbagedad? You know what, I agree with you coach, and I'm glad you had a discussion with your team. And...if my son's best friend/teammate is being assaulted on the field...I expect him to come to his rescue, right or wrong...it's a tough situation for a HS player or any player for that matter. I hope it all works out.
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn with the recent posts. A couple comments seem in order.
With regard to NoReplay's comments about victimization, give me a break. Everyone in our society these days seems to be preoccupied with being a victim. The coach was 100% wrong to act like he did and say what he did, but none of those boys are victims. From what I've heard, a number of the parents in the stands, and the pitcher's mom in particular, were no angels in this either. A lot worse than what the coach said, OR THE KID'S MOM SAID, have occured on athletic fields before, and nobody suffered any long term harm, so get over the 'victim' mentality, OK?
With regard to what Zombywoof said about the coach deserving a 'beat down', get real. No matter what an idiot this coach was (and yes, I think he acted totally like an idiot. No offense to idiots intended.) condoning violence like the pitcher and catcher started is never justifiable. For those who don't know, I've been told that after the pitcher threw at the coach, that he and the catcher charged him and threw a 'chop block', a high/low tackle on the coach and started punching him. Do you really think that was justifiable? If so, I'd love to read your rationale for
There's no sympathy for that clown coach for running his mouth the way he did. This whole thing could've been avoided if the adults did their job and kept things under control. There's plenty of blame to go around and the players involved shouldn't get off scott free but if this coach don't get fired, I see no reason to punish or expel any players
Zomby, NOBODY is expressing any sympathy for the coach. He acted like an idiot and he needs to be punished. However he is dealt with, it is independent from what the players (pitcher and catcher) did. I haven't heard anything yet about what may happen to the Del Campo coaches or players, and I just got off the phone with a school administrator (our call was about something unrelated, though we talked about this mess) who is kinda close to the situation, and he hadn't heard anything about what DC is going to do.
Del Campo has significant problems within their athletic department that go way beyond what happened in this game, and much of the problem at that school stems from a 'win at all costs' mentality among some of the coaches. Their football team had an even uglier incident last fall with Jesuit HS. Del Campo's football coach tried to defend his players, who it turned out had broken into a bunch of lockers and stolen Ipods, Iphones and other electronics from the Jesuit players lockers. Instead of setting a great example bytaking decisive and immediate action against his CRIMINALS (read student athlete football players), he defended them until a search of backpacks by campus police uncovered a lot of stolen items. DC's problems go way beyond an idiot assistant coach on their JV baseball team.
One thing that got me thinking more about this whole thing is......If this incident had not been caught on video, I wonder how things would have unfolded.
Would we be talking about this? Would the story make headlines and newsfeeds without the video? Hmmmmmm....
All of us can learn yet one more thing from all of this - Your actions good or bad, may be caught on video anytime, anywhere, and more than likely it's the bad ones that will make the news.
Would we be talking about this? Would the story make headlines and newsfeeds without the video? Hmmmmmm....
All of us can learn yet one more thing from all of this - Your actions good or bad, may be caught on video anytime, anywhere, and more than likely it's the bad ones that will make the news.
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
Once the DC coach ran his mouth on the kid's mother, then all bets are off and the DC COACH deserved whatever physical beating he could have gotten.
And you wonder why things like this happen. Coach was wrong in his remarks...but come on, you are also undisciplined, juvenile and irresponsible promoting that idea. It takes just a little maturity by someone to avoid this. Most people after a situation like this will tell you it wasn't worth it, and its not.
More than any other thread, this one has told me alot about our posters and is the reason I find out as much about parents as I do players before I have them play for me.
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
…
And Stats, read that part about the pitcher and catcher attacking the coach. That is way beyond 'sending a message'. That is assault. If the kid had thrown the ball and left it at that, he'd probably have gotten a lot more consideration, and a less harsh punishment. He'd have deserved both more consideration and a less harsh punishment, and the dugouts never would have emptied if he hadn't attacked the coach. The pitcher's action AFTER throwing the ball is what triggered the mess in the video that made YouTube.
The bottom line on this mess is that just about everyone was wrong, and nobody took the high road and stopped this from happening when it could have been circumvented. The parents in the stands were wrong. The first base coach was surely 100% wrong in his behavior. Both head coaches were wrong. The umpire was wrong to not have stopped the game and gotten it back under his management. And the player who threw the ball was totally wrong, especially when he and the catcher took it further and attacked the coach. As for all the players who left the dugouts, they were wrong but are probably mostly guilty of being dumb in doing what so many other kids would do under the circumstances. I can't find anyone in the right here, plenty of blame to go all the way around.
Believe me, I understand the point you’re trying to make, and as I’ve said before, I’m not trying to condone anything the pitcher, or really what any of the other kids did. What I’m trying to make sure is understood, is that there’s a difference between kids, no matter what their age, and adults.
You say what he did was assault, and I don’t disagree. But I also believe intentionally throwing a baseball with the intent of hitting a batter is no less assault, but seem to somehow be acceptable because its been done for so many years.
I also take into consideration how parents and coaches spend years trying to instill a feeling of camaraderie and team spirit in players, and how many see the game as akin to war or some other life and death struggle, then when they act like its flat out war and they put it on the line for their teammates, suddenly they’re expected to think and act like mature adults, and in a few seconds unlearn everything they’ve been indoctrinated with.
Again. I’m not trying to defend anyone, but rather only attempting to separate the participants into different groups, minors and adults.
coach2709,
Just as you point out that you never said to punish them like adults, I never said they shouldn’t be punished or held accountable. You say his punishment should depend on his past, but if there was a pattern of that kind of thing, what coach in his right mind would keep the kid on the team? I know our coach wouldn’t even of the kid was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth and Cy Young rolled into one. As for how professional players act, that hasn’t got a thing to do with what we’re discussing.
“How can you even say with a straight face "has anyone considered the possibility that all the boy was doing was 'sending a message'"? What's the message - "hey look at me, I'm going to do something very stupid because you're doing something stupid"?”
That’s a very distinct possibility coming from an immature mind.
“Or how about somebody somewhere sends the players this message - "guys you are going to do everything with class and character. If someone wants to talk trash then let them. Shut them up by doing your job in the field. Those who want to do the trash talk game are weak and they are trying to make you weak. Don't play their game cause nothing good comes from it. Keep your composure and keep your cool cause it will pay off in the end for us. I have faith that you guys will do the right thing but if you don't we will handle it cause you don't embarass the program, the school, your parents or yourself." …”
That’s a great message, and is very close to the “Pursuing Victory with Honor” code so many schools have incorporated into their athletic programs. Trouble is, there are times when the kids have brain farts and do the wrong thing. That doesn’t mean they should be pilloried. Kick the kid off the team for the season, fine. Suspend him from school? That’s just ridiculous.
Just as you point out that you never said to punish them like adults, I never said they shouldn’t be punished or held accountable. You say his punishment should depend on his past, but if there was a pattern of that kind of thing, what coach in his right mind would keep the kid on the team? I know our coach wouldn’t even of the kid was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth and Cy Young rolled into one. As for how professional players act, that hasn’t got a thing to do with what we’re discussing.
“How can you even say with a straight face "has anyone considered the possibility that all the boy was doing was 'sending a message'"? What's the message - "hey look at me, I'm going to do something very stupid because you're doing something stupid"?”
That’s a very distinct possibility coming from an immature mind.
“Or how about somebody somewhere sends the players this message - "guys you are going to do everything with class and character. If someone wants to talk trash then let them. Shut them up by doing your job in the field. Those who want to do the trash talk game are weak and they are trying to make you weak. Don't play their game cause nothing good comes from it. Keep your composure and keep your cool cause it will pay off in the end for us. I have faith that you guys will do the right thing but if you don't we will handle it cause you don't embarass the program, the school, your parents or yourself." …”
That’s a great message, and is very close to the “Pursuing Victory with Honor” code so many schools have incorporated into their athletic programs. Trouble is, there are times when the kids have brain farts and do the wrong thing. That doesn’t mean they should be pilloried. Kick the kid off the team for the season, fine. Suspend him from school? That’s just ridiculous.
Stats, let me provide you with something to think about, that I believe may cause you to change your mind about how ridiculous you think it is to suspend these players. Consider the following...
When I was talking to the school administrator that I referred to earlier in this thread, he told me that there are three things that are automatic suspension items in almost all California school districts. They are:
#1, bring a weapon onto campus, any weapon.
#2, bring a controlled substance on campus. He told me that, strangely, neither alcohol or marijuana are listed among the controlled substances that are automatic suspension items.
3, make 'CONTACT' with any school district employee. By contact, they don't mean accidentally bumping into someone or brushing against them in the hallway. What they mean is contacting ANY school district employee in any malicious manner. It doesn't matter if it is a principal, teacher, office staff, custodian OR ANY ATHLETIC COACHl when a student makes contact, they are GONE, SUSPENDED, NO GRAY AREA. It also covers people like umpires and referees, since they are contracted by the district's to work on their behalf.
By the pitcher and catcher going after the coach and attacking him, they made it real easy to suspend them without having to give much deliberation. It was explained to me that this is likely where the school will hang their hat on the suspensions, and that it is non-negotiable.
Honestly, I'm perpelexed how anyone can think that when a couple players attack someone, anyone, how you can think that they should not be suspended.
When I was talking to the school administrator that I referred to earlier in this thread, he told me that there are three things that are automatic suspension items in almost all California school districts. They are:
#1, bring a weapon onto campus, any weapon.
#2, bring a controlled substance on campus. He told me that, strangely, neither alcohol or marijuana are listed among the controlled substances that are automatic suspension items.
3, make 'CONTACT' with any school district employee. By contact, they don't mean accidentally bumping into someone or brushing against them in the hallway. What they mean is contacting ANY school district employee in any malicious manner. It doesn't matter if it is a principal, teacher, office staff, custodian OR ANY ATHLETIC COACHl when a student makes contact, they are GONE, SUSPENDED, NO GRAY AREA. It also covers people like umpires and referees, since they are contracted by the district's to work on their behalf.
By the pitcher and catcher going after the coach and attacking him, they made it real easy to suspend them without having to give much deliberation. It was explained to me that this is likely where the school will hang their hat on the suspensions, and that it is non-negotiable.
Honestly, I'm perpelexed how anyone can think that when a couple players attack someone, anyone, how you can think that they should not be suspended.
t
Forgive me if I'm wrong, Coach, but as far as I know, you don't have any formal criminal justice/law enforcement training. That is why I find it amazing that this one sentence is, literally, verbatim what I say to my classes when I teach them not to confuse what someone wants to do with what someone can or should do.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
There is a difference between understanding and justification but people sometimes confuse the two.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, Coach, but as far as I know, you don't have any formal criminal justice/law enforcement training. That is why I find it amazing that this one sentence is, literally, verbatim what I say to my classes when I teach them not to confuse what someone wants to do with what someone can or should do.
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Stats, let me provide you with something to think about, that I believe may cause you to change your mind about how ridiculous you think it is to suspend these players. Consider the following...
Also, consider this: The vast majority of assaults and murders in the US are victim-precipitated. This does not mean that the (eventual) victim causes it; it means that there is an interaction between the victim and perpetrator that ends up becoming a physical confrontation. Someone says something that is (correctly or incorrectly) taken as an affront. The offended party escalates the situation verbally. One party or the other turns it physical, and there you go...
quote:but if there was a pattern of that kind of thing, what coach in his right mind would keep the kid on the team?
a coach that see's potential in a kid and thinks he can help him move in the right direction.