So this kid starts a fight on the field with his buddy and you don't think they should be suspended from school? Guess what happens when you get into a fight at school - you get suspended. Pretty much all schools have a no tolerance policy towards violent actions. I may be wrong, and if I am hopefully Matt13 can better explain what I'm talking about, but the way it's described with the pitcher and catcher going at the same time with one going high and the other going low sounds like this was premeditated. The description leads me to think these two kids had a coversation as to what they were going to do to this coach.
I may have the definition of premeditation wrong and if so this is where Matt can clear it up. Plus, we have first hand accounts of what happened so maybe they can clear that picture up some that it wasn't already thought out plan.
Violence isn't a "brain ****" - it's impulse control.
Matt you are correct in that I have no formal criminal justice / law enforcement training. I guess great minds think a like LOL
I'll continue to wait for the facts. I've talked to three people who were there and have three different "exact quotes" of what the first base coach said and three different versions of the parents' behavior.
It has been truly interesting to read this thread - excellent comments by many.
If the accounts are true, the first base coach was acting like a complete moron (and should be disciplined for that behavior). But the law does not permit anyone, whether adult or teenager, to violently attack another person for acting like a moron.
Julie
If the accounts are true, the first base coach was acting like a complete moron (and should be disciplined for that behavior). But the law does not permit anyone, whether adult or teenager, to violently attack another person for acting like a moron.
Julie
quote:But the law does not permit anyone, whether adult or teenager, to violently attack another person for acting like a moron.
You are 100% correct on this. I have been a police officer for 23 years. Many of those years as a major crimes detective investigating homicides. Matt is also correct on his comments. The macho "standing up for what's right" so I will commit a violent act is how most of the major crimes I have investigated started.
A D1 baseball player on his 21st birthday went out to a bar and became involved in one of these moronic arguments. He punched the other guy. The victim fell, hit his head and died. This player’s life and bright future ended. Another man's life gone, all over nothing. This was not one of my cases but one that most here could relate to.
So the parents on this board, who still promote violently attacking an ignorant coach over words he said, put yourself in the above players’ shoes, the victims shoes or either of their parents. It's not worth it. Put yourself in any of the main characters shoes in the HS fight, is it really worth it? I would bet none of them today think it was.
Maybe we should explain these things to people who think they can say anything they want. There are consequences to opening your mouth. Some people never learn that lesson until they get seriously hurt.
I had a coach in HS that was like the coach in the story. He would say anything to you to get you upset and mad as long as no one else was around or you were in a setting that you couldn't respond. I was a target because my Dad was his boss. He used it against me by saying things like what are you gonna do? Tell your Dad on me?" Being the stupid teenager I didn't tell anyone.
I had tough skin and ususally just told him to bleep off. My brother was not so tough skinned. He quit basketball because of it. He had enough and walked off the court in practice. The coach told him that his practice shirt and shorts were school property and he couldn't take them with him. He stripped down to jocks and socks and walked off the court.
Even after 30 years it grates on both of us and more than likely many other kids that played for him or even went to the school. Most people do not understand what it is like to have a person in authority take advantage of the situation to humiliate and torture a kid who has no way to defend himself. When it comes to screwing up somebodies head, a teenager has no chance against an adult.
Even after 30 years if I saw that coach lying on the side of the road bleeding to death I would just laugh at him and walk away. My brother would probably kick him a few times for good measure. The feelings still run that deep.
The coach in the story should be arrested for starting a riot. He should never be allowed to be in charge of children. He should consider himself lucky that he hasn't been killed yet.
I had a coach in HS that was like the coach in the story. He would say anything to you to get you upset and mad as long as no one else was around or you were in a setting that you couldn't respond. I was a target because my Dad was his boss. He used it against me by saying things like what are you gonna do? Tell your Dad on me?" Being the stupid teenager I didn't tell anyone.
I had tough skin and ususally just told him to bleep off. My brother was not so tough skinned. He quit basketball because of it. He had enough and walked off the court in practice. The coach told him that his practice shirt and shorts were school property and he couldn't take them with him. He stripped down to jocks and socks and walked off the court.
Even after 30 years it grates on both of us and more than likely many other kids that played for him or even went to the school. Most people do not understand what it is like to have a person in authority take advantage of the situation to humiliate and torture a kid who has no way to defend himself. When it comes to screwing up somebodies head, a teenager has no chance against an adult.
Even after 30 years if I saw that coach lying on the side of the road bleeding to death I would just laugh at him and walk away. My brother would probably kick him a few times for good measure. The feelings still run that deep.
The coach in the story should be arrested for starting a riot. He should never be allowed to be in charge of children. He should consider himself lucky that he hasn't been killed yet.
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn with the recent posts. A couple comments seem in order.
With regard to NoReplay's comments about victimization, give me a break. Everyone in our society these days seems to be preoccupied with being a victim. The coach was 100% wrong to act like he did and say what he did, but none of those boys are victims. From what I've heard, a number of the parents in the stands, and the pitcher's mom in particular, were no angels in this either. A lot worse than what the coach said, OR THE KID'S MOM SAID, have occured on athletic fields before, and nobody suffered any long term harm, so get over the 'victim' mentality, OK?
With regard to what Zombywoof said about the coach deserving a 'beat down', get real. No matter what an idiot this coach was (and yes, I think he acted totally like an idiot. No offense to idiots intended.) condoning violence like the pitcher and catcher started is never justifiable. For those who don't know, I've been told that after the pitcher threw at the coach, that he and the catcher charged him and threw a 'chop block', a high/low tackle on the coach and started punching him. Do you really think that was justifiable? If so, I'd love to read your rationale for that.
Coach2709, you're 100% spot on with your comments.
And Stats, read that part about the pitcher and catcher attacking the coach. That is way beyond 'sending a message'. That is assault. If the kid had thrown the ball and left it at that, he'd probably have gotten a lot more consideration, and a less harsh punishment. He'd have deserved both more consideration and a less harsh punishment, and the dugouts never would have emptied if he hadn't attacked the coach. The pitcher's action AFTER throwing the ball is what triggered the mess in the video that made YouTube.
The bottom line on this mess is that just about everyone was wrong, and nobody took the high road and stopped this from happening when it could have been circumvented. The parents in the stands were wrong. The first base coach was surely 100% wrong in his behavior. Both head coaches were wrong. The umpire was wrong to not have stopped the game and gotten it back under his management. And the player who threw the ball was totally wrong, especially when he and the catcher took it further and attacked the coach. As for all the players who left the dugouts, they were wrong but are probably mostly guilty of being dumb in doing what so many other kids would do under the circumstances. I can't find anyone in the right here, plenty of blame to go all the way around.
No Im not going to give you a break. Not gonna quote the posts you made after this one but I have read all of them before this reply. Not going to "get over it" cuz its the whole point.
What you are is an apologist and an enabler.
These kids were victimized by this jerk; the fact that you dont want to face it doesnt change it. Who gives a **** whether the parents in the stands or the pitchers mother were angels? Not talking about them, not concerned with them, just dont care. They are adults, they are not subject to the administrative bludgening of school administration. They were not placed under the control of this moron and were not subject to the artificial rules in place that allowed this cowardly man to torment children participating in school sanctioned activities. Its probably part of what caused the problem though,... THEY didnt have to sit there and take it and they didnt. Unfortunately the children involved got drawn further in by the actions of all the adults who, in fact, should know better.
This later statement you made:
"3, make 'CONTACT' with any school district employee. By contact, they don't mean accidentally bumping into someone or brushing against them in the hallway. What they mean is contacting ANY school district employee in any malicious manner. It doesn't matter if it is a principal, teacher, office staff, custodian OR ANY ATHLETIC COACHl when a student makes contact, they are GONE, SUSPENDED, NO GRAY AREA. It also covers people like umpires and referees, since they are contracted by the district's to work on their behalf."......
doesnt justify your position, in fact it condemns it. Coach knows he has the kids trapped under the threat of this discipline. This policy means that a kid will be "gone, suspended, NO GRAY AREA if they respond physically to a coach even if he does a Sandusky on them.
No way do I think what the kids did was right, no way do I think that there should not be an appropriate penalty levied.
BUT punishment needs to be applied FIRST and MORE SEVERELY to those who were adults, who were in positions of authority and who allowed this situation to develop. This has to include the moron coach himself, the other coaches, the umpires that didnt control the game and the coach, the AD that knew about the coach's tendencies and the AD and administration that allowed this "educator" access to his victims.
The Kids punishments should be orders of magnitude less than that levied against the adults, not orders of magnitude greater than the adults'
I agree that the adults who acted badly or failed to fulfill their responsibilities should bear heavier punishment than the boys, but I will be mildly surprised if they do.
Most schools have disciplinary and appeal procedures for students that permit them to impose quick suspensions and expulsions and make them stick.
The teachers, on the other hand, have negotiated discipline procedures as part of their collective bargaining agreements and will have the union backing them at every step.
Don't be surprised if the boys come out of this worse than the adults.
Life's not fair, which is all the more reason not to put yourself in situations you cannot win.
Most schools have disciplinary and appeal procedures for students that permit them to impose quick suspensions and expulsions and make them stick.
The teachers, on the other hand, have negotiated discipline procedures as part of their collective bargaining agreements and will have the union backing them at every step.
Don't be surprised if the boys come out of this worse than the adults.
Life's not fair, which is all the more reason not to put yourself in situations you cannot win.
Well said NoReplay. 
The actions of the players and coaches are up for debate, but one thing is for sure...
the media went straight for sensation and outrage, and was not interested in getting to the truth of the story. I wonder how many kids lives will be destroyed (suspensions, etc.) as a result of their actions?
the media went straight for sensation and outrage, and was not interested in getting to the truth of the story. I wonder how many kids lives will be destroyed (suspensions, etc.) as a result of their actions?
quote:The actions of the players and coaches are up for debate, but one thing is for sure...
the media went straight for sensation and outrage, and was not interested in getting to the truth of the story. I wonder how many kids lives will be destroyed (suspensions, etc.) as a result of their actions?
I just watched the video as I cant stream video at work. IMHO I would suspend the every player in yellow on the video sucker punching from behind, arguing with Adult Umpires & Coaches. How anyone could say anyone in Yellow was justified should have their head examined.The parents on the feild make it easy to see why the Players acted the way they did. Very Classy!! All of the kids involved should have their careers destroyed!! What if one of the kids that got punched from someone behind them suffered a career ending injury??
From the state athletic commission down to the head coach, there is a responsibility to protect and educate the students under their supervision.
In this case, all of the protections for the students failed. The students were subjected to the boorish and criminal actions of the first base coach of the blue team. Once that coach assaulted the player's mother, that caused a secondary assault causing the player to fear that the coach was threatening or inciting violence against his mother, the safe guards in place should have protected the sudent. None of the possible safe guards did.
1)The player's coach did not ( as far as we have seen on the tape) come to the aid of the player to allay his fears of possible violence against his mother and the actions of the first base coach.
2)The umpires did not take action against the offending first base coach to allay the fears of the student.
3)The school employing the coach did not protect the student from the behavior of the first base coach. Further, the school employing the coach are subjecting the students under his supervision to his boorish and criminal behavior.
4)The tournament site marshalls should have come to the aid of the student to allay any fears he may have of violence being perpetrated on his mother due to the actions of the first base coach.
In my view, the system has failed the students. When all of the rules and safe guards fail, anarchy ensues. All of the students that even witnessed the commotion brought about by the first base coach's boorish and criminal behavior saw the system in place fail them.
The coach should be punished and be required to attend counseling as to what his role and responsibilities are to the students.
The students should face no more than counseling. They should be counseled that sometimes no matter what restrictions or rules are in place, the system sometimes fails, and how to deal with that failure without violence.
In this case, all of the protections for the students failed. The students were subjected to the boorish and criminal actions of the first base coach of the blue team. Once that coach assaulted the player's mother, that caused a secondary assault causing the player to fear that the coach was threatening or inciting violence against his mother, the safe guards in place should have protected the sudent. None of the possible safe guards did.
1)The player's coach did not ( as far as we have seen on the tape) come to the aid of the player to allay his fears of possible violence against his mother and the actions of the first base coach.
2)The umpires did not take action against the offending first base coach to allay the fears of the student.
3)The school employing the coach did not protect the student from the behavior of the first base coach. Further, the school employing the coach are subjecting the students under his supervision to his boorish and criminal behavior.
4)The tournament site marshalls should have come to the aid of the student to allay any fears he may have of violence being perpetrated on his mother due to the actions of the first base coach.
In my view, the system has failed the students. When all of the rules and safe guards fail, anarchy ensues. All of the students that even witnessed the commotion brought about by the first base coach's boorish and criminal behavior saw the system in place fail them.
The coach should be punished and be required to attend counseling as to what his role and responsibilities are to the students.
The students should face no more than counseling. They should be counseled that sometimes no matter what restrictions or rules are in place, the system sometimes fails, and how to deal with that failure without violence.
I can't wait to see what criminal charges Quincy thinks should be brought against the coach. On the other hand, I think it's pretty simple to find charges against the player(s) if the local law enforcement decides to pursue that...
Assault
a. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
b. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.
"Get that B---- out of here." as a call for the crowd to take action against the student's mother. This act would cause fear in the mother as well as the child/student that the crowd would act with violence.
a. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
b. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.
"Get that B---- out of here." as a call for the crowd to take action against the student's mother. This act would cause fear in the mother as well as the child/student that the crowd would act with violence.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
Assault
a. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
b. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.
"Get that B---- out of here." as a call for the crowd to take action against the student's mother. This act would cause fear in the mother as well as the child/student that the crowd would act with violence.
Really? You can't be serious. That is not assault, if that was the case every game would have someone assaulting someone. Ridiculous.
quote:"Get that B---- out of here." as a call for the crowd to take action against the student's mother.
Or a request for the tournament management to remove the lady...
Good luck getting that one to stand up. Meanwhile that pitcher has "assault with a deadly weapon" written all over his file..
While I'm sure tournament officials have set standards of behavior that would cause an individual to be ejected, the word btch directed at an individual who has a reasonable expectation of rooting for her son's team would not be standard form.
In calling for the crowd to throw the B out, he incited the baseball team of the student athlete. He actually got justice in its truest form. He got smacked in the mouth for speaking as he did.
Once the coach started using profanity on the field, he should have forfeited any connection to the school. He also should have lost any protections he would have as a school employee.
There are many name for trouble makers of this sort who start the fire and then ask 'Who me?'
Juveniles are protected under law because they can be manipulated by adults. This is such a case.
In calling for the crowd to throw the B out, he incited the baseball team of the student athlete. He actually got justice in its truest form. He got smacked in the mouth for speaking as he did.
Once the coach started using profanity on the field, he should have forfeited any connection to the school. He also should have lost any protections he would have as a school employee.
There are many name for trouble makers of this sort who start the fire and then ask 'Who me?'
Juveniles are protected under law because they can be manipulated by adults. This is such a case.
Interesting posts, and for some, I think...irrational.
First of all, I have it from people who were there that the parents were out of hand from the second inning on. They were unruly, and the umpire didn't do what he could have to put a stop to it. Neither did either team's coaches. DC's first base coach acted like an idiot, but when he said "Will somebody shut that b**ch up?" he fell far short of assault, or battery. Was he wrong to say what he did? Darn right he was. BUT, the parents in the stands bear some of the responsibility for this too, because they were setting the tone for 4 innings, running their mouths to an unreasonable degree. The coach was STUPID, however, nobody engaged in any violence until the pitcher threw that ball, and then he and the catcher attacked the coach. I don't think assault may be the best term for what they did, battery seems more appropriate.
One problem with our society today is that so many don't want to hold those who commit violence or heinous acts responsible for their actions. They always want to forgive those who commit terrible acts, and find reasons why they did it, other than they are just stupid, violent, bad character examples. So, when you say it was the coach's fault the kid threw at him and then attacked him, you're demonstrating an example of what I'm talking about. Also, when you say the kids are victims, you're giving another example.
Remember the old saying "Sports doesn't build character, it reveals it"? Well, this game was a pretty good example. And, the discussion that has followed has done the same to some degree. Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE, who was involved in that mess should stand up and take responsibility for what they did, and that includes the parents, and take whatever punishment is deemed appropriate. They should also learn a lesson from it, to hopefully never act like that again.... and a few people on here need a reality check.
First of all, I have it from people who were there that the parents were out of hand from the second inning on. They were unruly, and the umpire didn't do what he could have to put a stop to it. Neither did either team's coaches. DC's first base coach acted like an idiot, but when he said "Will somebody shut that b**ch up?" he fell far short of assault, or battery. Was he wrong to say what he did? Darn right he was. BUT, the parents in the stands bear some of the responsibility for this too, because they were setting the tone for 4 innings, running their mouths to an unreasonable degree. The coach was STUPID, however, nobody engaged in any violence until the pitcher threw that ball, and then he and the catcher attacked the coach. I don't think assault may be the best term for what they did, battery seems more appropriate.
One problem with our society today is that so many don't want to hold those who commit violence or heinous acts responsible for their actions. They always want to forgive those who commit terrible acts, and find reasons why they did it, other than they are just stupid, violent, bad character examples. So, when you say it was the coach's fault the kid threw at him and then attacked him, you're demonstrating an example of what I'm talking about. Also, when you say the kids are victims, you're giving another example.
Remember the old saying "Sports doesn't build character, it reveals it"? Well, this game was a pretty good example. And, the discussion that has followed has done the same to some degree. Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE, who was involved in that mess should stand up and take responsibility for what they did, and that includes the parents, and take whatever punishment is deemed appropriate. They should also learn a lesson from it, to hopefully never act like that again.... and a few people on here need a reality check.
The coach actually engaged in violence when he called for the ejection of the B. He created a situation that would reasonably cause fear of violence in the mother and child.
In my view, the juvenile would not have engaged in the actions he did unless manipulated by the adult coach.
In this case, the kids are victims. They are victims of the system not protecting them from making a bad decision. These are not adults. These are kids going through puberty, tying to understand their role in society while trying at the same time to compete at a high level of sport. They are prone by nature to make bad decisions. That is why the law protects them.
Remove this coach from the situation and I am pretty sure, no situation would have existed.
In my view, the juvenile would not have engaged in the actions he did unless manipulated by the adult coach.
In this case, the kids are victims. They are victims of the system not protecting them from making a bad decision. These are not adults. These are kids going through puberty, tying to understand their role in society while trying at the same time to compete at a high level of sport. They are prone by nature to make bad decisions. That is why the law protects them.
Remove this coach from the situation and I am pretty sure, no situation would have existed.
quote:Remove this coach from the situation and I am pretty sure, no situation would have existed.
So with your logic, remove the "btch" and this coach doesn't make the comment.
If I was this coach, I'd be filing charges against the pitcher. He is THE ONE responsible for this becoming a physical altercation. No one else.
06catcherdad I must say now you've done it. You have went out and brought logic into the discussion and we all know there's no point in doing that. Having logic isn't a popular fad anymore - having an excuse is.
I don't care what the situiation is - you can find an excuse for anything. Even a serial killer has an excuse as to why they do the things they do. But at the end of the day you have to be held responsible for your actions no matter what the excuse is. The adults here in this JV game situation can probably find a reasonable excuse for why they acted the way they did......but they need to held accountable for what they did. The kids here in this JV game have excuses for why they acted the way they did......but they also need to be held accountable for what they did.
It's possible to have discipline and empathy at the same time. It's called teaching when things go wrong but so many people don't want to make others mad or want to find excuses they side step that responsibility.
I don't care what the situiation is - you can find an excuse for anything. Even a serial killer has an excuse as to why they do the things they do. But at the end of the day you have to be held responsible for your actions no matter what the excuse is. The adults here in this JV game situation can probably find a reasonable excuse for why they acted the way they did......but they need to held accountable for what they did. The kids here in this JV game have excuses for why they acted the way they did......but they also need to be held accountable for what they did.
It's possible to have discipline and empathy at the same time. It's called teaching when things go wrong but so many people don't want to make others mad or want to find excuses they side step that responsibility.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
The coach actually engaged in violence when he called for the ejection of the B. He created a situation that would reasonably cause fear of violence in the mother and child.
In my view, the juvenile would not have engaged in the actions he did unless manipulated by the adult coach.
In this case, the kids are victims. They are victims of the system not protecting them from making a bad decision. These are not adults. These are kids going through puberty, tying to understand their role in society while trying at the same time to compete at a high level of sport. They are prone by nature to make bad decisions. That is why the law protects them.
Remove this coach from the situation and I am pretty sure, no situation would have existed.
What are you trying to say about the kids? From the way I read this post it sounds like you're saying the kids shouldn't be punished for their actions because they are the victims. Am I reading this correctly? If so how do you justify this and at what age should they be held accountable for their actions?
I have to remind you that the 'Btch' was not the catalyst for the brawl. The coach was.
The law usually has special protections for children up to and including age 16. I believe the JV would mostly fall into this group.
I wouldn't be surprised if the children are re-instated and the mother brings suit against the school system and athletic association. The coaches and umpires are all representatives or pseudo representatives of the athletic association especially when they are working with students. As state employees, they are subject to regulations that may bring further action against them.
The law usually has special protections for children up to and including age 16. I believe the JV would mostly fall into this group.
I wouldn't be surprised if the children are re-instated and the mother brings suit against the school system and athletic association. The coaches and umpires are all representatives or pseudo representatives of the athletic association especially when they are working with students. As state employees, they are subject to regulations that may bring further action against them.
Quincy is the economy better in the world you live in because it's terrible in the world the rest of us live in?
Our economy isn't bad.
Government regulation and manipulation are the problem.
As long as we have people like Yuba City producing goods for our markets we wil still be able to feed ourselves.
Raising the debt ceiling devalues the value of the dollar so prices rise on domestic goods and even more on imported goods.
Until we abandon this 'service economy' in favor of a manufacturing economy, we will eventually reach a point where we cannot produce enough food for the nation and truly enter Third World status.
Government regulation and manipulation are the problem.
As long as we have people like Yuba City producing goods for our markets we wil still be able to feed ourselves.
Raising the debt ceiling devalues the value of the dollar so prices rise on domestic goods and even more on imported goods.
Until we abandon this 'service economy' in favor of a manufacturing economy, we will eventually reach a point where we cannot produce enough food for the nation and truly enter Third World status.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
I have to remind you that the 'Btch' was not the catalyst for the brawl. The coach was.
The law usually has special protections for children up to and including age 16. I believe the JV would mostly fall into this group.
I wouldn't be surprised if the children are re-instated and the mother brings suit against the school system and athletic association. The coaches and umpires are all representatives or pseudo representatives of the athletic association especially when they are working with students. As state employees, they are subject to regulations that may bring further action against them.
Quincy, are you sure? Are you sure that the mom referred to as a "B" isn't the catalyst that made the coach do what he did? I'm not defending the coach, just trying to understand your logic, which seems rather vacant to me. Did the mom make the coach say what he said, which in turn made her son do what he did, which is why we're all talking about it. So, is it the moms fault?
As for the law, perhaps they need you out here. Yuba City, and many surrounding communities, have a significant gang problem. Many of those gang members are under 16. Perhaps you can come help fix that problem since it is not their fault. You can explain it to everyone that it's the fault of the adults and these kids are victims, and then maybe they'll all leave the gangs, kiss and make-up and then stand in a circle holding hands and sign Kumbaya together.
When you've finished with Yuba City and Carmichael (Del Campo's community) you can go to the Bay Area. My daughter is a senior who will graduate from Cal next month. One of her classes the last couple year's at U.C. Berkeley has involved her going into juvenile hall facilities in Oakland, Alameda and San Francisco to teach creatvie writing to juveniles who are incarcerated at those facilities. She called me earlier this year to ask what a 15 year old has to do to get "life without parole". Maybe you can come explain that it wasn't his fault that he killed people that got him sent away for the rest of his life while still only as old as these baseball players. That it was the fault of some adults like this idiot coach. That it was anyone's fault except his because he is a juvenile and a "protected" class.
I coach and mentor a lot of young men from 13-18 years old. I'm fortunate that they're nearly all good students, and all are good citizens (those are requirements to play in our program). A couple things they learn through the years they play baseball with us include that they are responsible for their own actions, nobody else is. And, they cannot let outside influences affect them and derail them from accomplishing their tasks and goals. They learn that character not only matters, it counts for where you're going to go in your life. You can bet your bottom dollar on three things here with our program. #1, we don't have idiots like this coach in our program. #2, we don't have players like the thugs who attacked the coach.... and #3, we don't have parents like that mom in the stands. We look for good student athletes from good famlies who are at least decent baseball players that aspire to play college baseball. When you do that, you tend to not have idiots on the field, in the dugout or sitting in the stands.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
I have to remind you that the 'Btch' was not the catalyst for the brawl. The coach was.
Why do you suppose the coach, ill-advisedly, said "Get that b---- out of here"? Just for fun? Do you think she was sitting quietly in the front row not saying anything, not doing anything and he just decided that she should leave for no reason? Really?
I believe the final report may find that the parents behavior may have been the initial provocation. Can't wait for a factual report.
Concerning the actions of the mother or the 'Btch', if she was in fact acting in a manner that was disruptive or even unsportsmanlike, the marshalls of the tournament would have acted on their own. I see no evidence of that in the tape.
The coach as an adult is not as easily manipulated and is more responsible for his actions than a juvenile in the eyes of the law. He would have better luck claiming' the devil made me do it' than blaming the actions of anyone at or on the field.
Gangs have always been the place for those unable to stand on their own amongst their peers. The very fact that they are in a gang shows a lack of parenting. The adults that brought these children into the world failed them in the most basic form.
It has been my observation the 'leaders' of the gangs in California are adults, usually graduates of some penitentiary. If an adult is contributing to the deliquency of children, they should be arrested and forbidden to congregate with children in the future. If no action is taken against these adults by the state or locality, then I would say that the state and or locality is at fault.
Science tells us that if left to their own devices without good parental influence children will have the mentallity of animals. (Lord of the Flies) If the children are nurtured in a reasonable family atmosphere they usually learn to function in society.
There was a time when social services would remove children from unhealthy home environments. Those children were usually then placed in foster care, orphanages or state (reform) schools. The various government agencies have either taxed or regulated those places into non-existence.
The coach as an adult is not as easily manipulated and is more responsible for his actions than a juvenile in the eyes of the law. He would have better luck claiming' the devil made me do it' than blaming the actions of anyone at or on the field.
Gangs have always been the place for those unable to stand on their own amongst their peers. The very fact that they are in a gang shows a lack of parenting. The adults that brought these children into the world failed them in the most basic form.
It has been my observation the 'leaders' of the gangs in California are adults, usually graduates of some penitentiary. If an adult is contributing to the deliquency of children, they should be arrested and forbidden to congregate with children in the future. If no action is taken against these adults by the state or locality, then I would say that the state and or locality is at fault.
Science tells us that if left to their own devices without good parental influence children will have the mentallity of animals. (Lord of the Flies) If the children are nurtured in a reasonable family atmosphere they usually learn to function in society.
There was a time when social services would remove children from unhealthy home environments. Those children were usually then placed in foster care, orphanages or state (reform) schools. The various government agencies have either taxed or regulated those places into non-existence.
quote:Concerning the actions of the mother or the 'Btch', if she was in fact acting in a manner that was disruptive or even unsportsmanlike, the marshalls of the tournament would have acted on their own. I see no evidence of that in the tape.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't recall the video showing the coach's actions either. Maybe they're all made up? All I see is the physical violence started by the players...
In a previous post you inferred that removal of either the 'Btch' or the coach would have negated this incident.
If the Btch was the antagonist, we would have seen tournament officials moving in some manner that would suggest she was being removed from the premises at the request of the first base coach. We did not.
After the incident calmed down towards the end of the tape, no official asked the mother to leave or not to sit in the stands.
As we all seem to agree , this coach is a loose cannon wrapped up in the mob mentality from the jawing taking place all game. He chose someone to attack to make himself a big man on his own.
"According to sources, both teams had been "jawing" at each other throughout the game. But the melee occurred in the sixth inning after the Del Campo first base coach made comments to the Yuba City dugout and pitcher Jaylon Deas."
So did the coach refer to the child's mother as a Btch directly to his face? Bad form. Abuse of authority and crass disregard for the responsibilties of the coaching position.
I wouldn't be surprised if it is found that the player acted in what he believed was self-defense in protecting his mother when the agents of the state athletic commission failed to do so.
If the Btch was the antagonist, we would have seen tournament officials moving in some manner that would suggest she was being removed from the premises at the request of the first base coach. We did not.
After the incident calmed down towards the end of the tape, no official asked the mother to leave or not to sit in the stands.
As we all seem to agree , this coach is a loose cannon wrapped up in the mob mentality from the jawing taking place all game. He chose someone to attack to make himself a big man on his own.
"According to sources, both teams had been "jawing" at each other throughout the game. But the melee occurred in the sixth inning after the Del Campo first base coach made comments to the Yuba City dugout and pitcher Jaylon Deas."
So did the coach refer to the child's mother as a Btch directly to his face? Bad form. Abuse of authority and crass disregard for the responsibilties of the coaching position.
I wouldn't be surprised if it is found that the player acted in what he believed was self-defense in protecting his mother when the agents of the state athletic commission failed to do so.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
Meanwhile that pitcher has "assault with a deadly weapon" written all over his file..
A pitcher throwing a baseball? I hope you're joking.
quote:Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Maybe we should explain these things to people who think they can say anything they want. There are consequences to opening your mouth. Some people never learn that lesson until they get seriously hurt.
I live outside a big city where people are killed over things like parking spaces, facebook and dog poop. If you don't understand this, and think you can say anything to anyone because 'it's only words', you might be in for a big surprise, some day.
quote:A pitcher throwing a baseball? I hope you're joking.
During the minor league brawl, Castillo threw a ball towards the Dayton Dragon dugout, which deflected off the dugout and hit a fan. The fan was taken to a hospital, and Castillo would later be charged with felony assault after the game.
http://voices.yahoo.com/class-...s-major-1724131.html
Precedent?
I find it interesting how some people who never see anything other than some video or some pictures have such firm opinions about who is at fault in an incident. There are some people on here who've seen nothing except some video, yet who know exactly who is at fault. While I don't know exactly what happened as I wasn't there, I have talked to a number of people who were either there, or spoke directly with people who were there, so I have a little better idea of what happened (because I've been told more than the video shows) than some on here who are so totally sure of who is at fault. I don't know a lot of the details about what happened, but I do know this... There is NO justification for players to initiate an attack on anyone simply over words they found offensive. If they were attacked physically by someone, I could see them defending themselves, but from what I've been told by people who were there, the pitcher threw the ball, then charged off the mound to attack the coach, while the catcher charged from the plate to join in on the attack. The ACTIONS of the pitcher were the trigger for what was shown on the video, everyone else's contributions to this mess notwithstanding. Since when do WORDS justify this kind of over-reaction? When those two players left their positions to attack the coach, who was in the area of the first base coach's box, they initiated the whole melee. That is one detail that nobody has disputed at any time that I'm aware of.
The parallels between how people view this incident, and how many view the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident are interesting, and I think say something about American society in 2012. It's interesting how so many are ready to pass judgement on what happened over evidence as skimpy as a poor video that shows only a portion of what occured, or pictures that may be outdated, or audio that has been edited by a news organization. Too often, people are ready to pass judgement on what they "know" happened, when they actually don't know so many details about what really may have happened. And I think that is one of the things wrong with our culture in this day and age.
The parallels between how people view this incident, and how many view the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident are interesting, and I think say something about American society in 2012. It's interesting how so many are ready to pass judgement on what happened over evidence as skimpy as a poor video that shows only a portion of what occured, or pictures that may be outdated, or audio that has been edited by a news organization. Too often, people are ready to pass judgement on what they "know" happened, when they actually don't know so many details about what really may have happened. And I think that is one of the things wrong with our culture in this day and age.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
Concerning the actions of the mother or the 'Btch', if she was in fact acting in a manner that was disruptive or even unsportsmanlike, the marshalls of the tournament would have acted on their own. I see no evidence of that in the tape.
I can see you have never attended a Yuba City game.
That,and I have not seen a video that begins before the pitcher throwing at the coach. Is there one? If not, how do you know what exactly occurred with the mom before the videos begin?
We are in agreement Antzdad.
With freedom of speech comes responsibility for the words you utter. If one uses threats of force and /or violence against a person, that person has a reasonable expectation of be met with like force or violence (if not excessive force or violence).
I can tell that catcherdad and Jimmy are Democrats and not only voted for Obama but also seek his re-election.
I can tell this because they do not weigh the responsibilities of the parties involved, the legal capacity of the parties involved and they cannot accept the information (evidence) from the videos and the accounts of witnesses as reported by the various newspapers. They instead continue to add or subtract from the evidence to suit their opinions.
Bottom line is that the first base coach failed in his responsibilty as a representative of the state athletic commission. He failed to execute his duties stipulated by such commission and abused the protections granted by such commission.
To use profanity to manipulate a minor into a confrontation is inexcusable.
Any coach who has to wonder at what age children are to be treated as adults, the answer is when the children meet the age when you are not expected to care and safeguard them from the time the parents turn them over to your care until you return them to their parents.
I can tell that catcherdad and Jimmy are Democrats and not only voted for Obama but also seek his re-election.
I can tell this because they do not weigh the responsibilities of the parties involved, the legal capacity of the parties involved and they cannot accept the information (evidence) from the videos and the accounts of witnesses as reported by the various newspapers. They instead continue to add or subtract from the evidence to suit their opinions.
Bottom line is that the first base coach failed in his responsibilty as a representative of the state athletic commission. He failed to execute his duties stipulated by such commission and abused the protections granted by such commission.
To use profanity to manipulate a minor into a confrontation is inexcusable.
Any coach who has to wonder at what age children are to be treated as adults, the answer is when the children meet the age when you are not expected to care and safeguard them from the time the parents turn them over to your care until you return them to their parents.
quote:To use profanity to manipulate a minor into a confrontation is inexcusable.
Quincy, I think you give this coach way too much credit. Do you really think this dumb arse was smart enough to THINK about using profanity to manipulate a player? I think this guy was just plain stupid and got caught up in the moment and acted like a moron (sorry morons, no offense intended toward you) and the player acted equally, actually more, moronic than the coach.
Don't give that dipstick more credit than he deserves.
quote:A pitcher throwing a baseball? I hope you're joking
A Pitcher throwing a ball at a Coach who may or may not have even been looking at him. The player instigated the Brawl. The conduct of the Mother after the Brawl calls into question her conduct before.
The misconception seems to be that this "issue" was either an isolated incident with name calling in the 6th inning when the reality is that it had gone on the whole game. While I understand that players will jaw at each other during games, a coach should NEVER participate. High school coaches are bound by both CIF and NFHS regulations that explicitly name
'taunting players or parents' and 'using profanity' as unacceptable behaviors. I don't care if this is baseball and this is what has been done for years... we are spending hours every day reinforcing in these kids that if you are being bullied by adults you need to speak up. Those kids were being harassed, spoke up for 5 innings and were ignored. What nobody cares to mention is that the video used for punishment and all over the news was shot by the DC head coaches daughter and doesn't show any of the actions leading up to the YC altercation. There is no video of the DC players or parent involvement, but it existed. Why is that do you suppose? The pitcher should not have thrown the ball at the coach, I will give you that, but the coach should not have been there to have a ball thrown at him. These boys have now had everything they love taken away from them, and honestly just because you didn't see it on a video doesn't mean it didn't happen. DC played the next day, seems the video did it's job. Do some research people, look into the athletics program at Del Campo, and at YC. Seems to me that the media convicted these kids but hey, don't believe me, I'm just somebody that knows both teams well.
'taunting players or parents' and 'using profanity' as unacceptable behaviors. I don't care if this is baseball and this is what has been done for years... we are spending hours every day reinforcing in these kids that if you are being bullied by adults you need to speak up. Those kids were being harassed, spoke up for 5 innings and were ignored. What nobody cares to mention is that the video used for punishment and all over the news was shot by the DC head coaches daughter and doesn't show any of the actions leading up to the YC altercation. There is no video of the DC players or parent involvement, but it existed. Why is that do you suppose? The pitcher should not have thrown the ball at the coach, I will give you that, but the coach should not have been there to have a ball thrown at him. These boys have now had everything they love taken away from them, and honestly just because you didn't see it on a video doesn't mean it didn't happen. DC played the next day, seems the video did it's job. Do some research people, look into the athletics program at Del Campo, and at YC. Seems to me that the media convicted these kids but hey, don't believe me, I'm just somebody that knows both teams well.