2020 High School Baseball Season

Lefty has two ways of doing some things, the HS way and the TB way.  Most of them are inconsequential: routes in the outfield, lead off and base running, etc.  They do have him doing a few things different on the mound but everything is about the way he comes set (But nothing for actual pitch delivery thank god). Playing for different coaches and giving your best effort to achieve what they are asking is part of being an athlete IMO. (Not baseball related but maybe relevant, I was a competitive gymnast, and also left handed. My natural inclination is to rotate in the “wonky” direction. Club coach totally on board. I either went first or last so he could switch sides to spot when working in groups. HS coach couldn’t be bothered said right was right. Reminded me of how they used to make lefties write with their right hand because it wasn’t “natural”.  While it made for a frustrating 4 months, it also made me a stronger athlete.  In fact, gave me more options for how to do things when I got to choose myself. 

Now if it’s something he may hurt himself (arm) doing then he’ll have to talk to old school coach. Maybe asking HC for advice on how to approach the conversation may lead to a soft intervention? 

Kids are going to have multiple coaches throughout their lives, then multiple bosses, girl friends, etc.  Each will have different styles and approaches.  You tell your son, especially as a freshman, to take in all the information he can gather, adapt and grow.  I would especially not have him approach the HC as a freshman.  These are good life lessons he will take with him. 

I especially agree with GO44DAD response, as this is your son's relationship he's building with the coach.  I can tell you the one my son had with his coach was night and day, when you compare freshman to senior year.  It was all on them to develop.

TerribleBPthrower posted:

Could use some advice here from some of the crafty veterans who have been through the high school ball thing. Yesterday was the first day of practice/tryouts for my son, 2023 C. My son has played travel ball for the HC for 2 years and has a great relationship with him. The coach is very new school with a lot of things he teaches. So yesterday my son meets the new C/P coach and he immediately lets my son know he's an old school guy and starts changing up his stance and receiving back to the old school way my son was taught when he was 10-12 years old. My question is, would my son be out of line for asking the new C/P coach if he can show him the way he was taught by his private catching coach? My son is afraid the coach will think he's trying to show him up or something. 

IMO (without knowing more specifics of the personalities and relationships between the coaches) -

He has a great relationship with HC and HC is the boss.  He should speak to HC separately.  He should explain the situation to HC, ask for advice on what to do, and express that he is very concerned that he wants to be respectful to the AC and will do as asked at the end of the day.  He should state that he wants to be a team player and not be a problem but is struggling with that particular change.  Then, he should listen.

The key is to instruct him to be very respectful when he talks to the HC and then both coaches going forward.  As others have mentioned, not an easy discussion for most HS freshmen to initiate.  He will fumble some things.  But, it is the spirit in which he looks for advice that will win the day for him.   

This is a great early opportunity for him to start learning some of the hard lessons sport teaches.  If he can push through this himself, the results are likely to be better in the long run than having dad step in with an assist.  

As someone else mentioned, this is not without risk but I think the best route to take to get resolution one way or the other early on and to set the tone as a young player who will handle issues properly.

I will agree with others that there will always be different teachings and a player should pull the best from all and adapt.  My recommendation applies only if the changes are significant and difficult to incorporate both teachings.

As a side note, there is a decent chance that this actually helps the two coaches move toward being on the same page, which is important.  Let us know how it goes.

 Second side note - as a coach, I frequently reminded players that several aspects of the game have multiple teaches and it is important that they speak up if there is any confusion or if they were being instructed outside of the program to do things a different way.  We would discuss pro's and con's and determine best course moving forward for that player at that time.  I think most coaches are aware of this and, hopefully, it won't be the big issue that your son fears it is.

I am almost always a big advocate of the direct approach.  I veer in this instance, in part, because I think working through the HC is still working within the same organization and is likely to have better results than "my private instructor says to do it this way".

So everything worked out. Told my son he had 3 options; say nothing, talk to HC, or talk to AC. Told him to choose what he was most comfortable with. He chose to talk to HC. Coach basically told him he knows what my son’s skill level is and that he wants him to play the way he’s most comfortable. 

2023 C from San Diego.  Most public schools here don't fund a Freshman team - so it's either JV or V for him.  On the one side, the V catchers from last year both graduated and there is only a 2021 'part-time' catcher ready to go now.  That leaves my son and 1 other C vying for a chance to be the starter on V.  Either way, he'll get plenty of reps on V or JV and mostly I am glad he's so excited to play with school friends again after many years of travel ball.  I am kind of amazed at how many C dads are on here though - I wonder what that means about us?

TerribleBPthrower posted:

So everything worked out. Told my son he had 3 options; say nothing, talk to HC, or talk to AC. Told him to choose what he was most comfortable with. He chose to talk to HC. Coach basically told him he knows what my son’s skill level is and that he wants him to play the way he’s most comfortable. 

 

 

Great to hear!  But we all want to know how that was going to be conveyed between the coaches??

TerribleBPthrower posted:

So everything worked out. Told my son he had 3 options; say nothing, talk to HC, or talk to AC. Told him to choose what he was most comfortable with. He chose to talk to HC. Coach basically told him he knows what my son’s skill level is and that he wants him to play the way he’s most comfortable. 

 

 

That's great for you guys.  Hope your son has a big year.

This being written language, us human and with different experiences and having never met most on this board, communication can be trite and lack context at times.  When someone says old school, I envision older, overweight baseball coach dressed in a wool baseball uniform spitting (and missing) a spittoon in the corner of the dugout and yelling "hit into the ground, get the guy over!".  The mention of new school puts an image of Domingo Ayala in my head, swinging out of his shoes and up to the sky, woven gold neck chain flying as he strikes out with runners on second and third, while saying "just missed!".  I try and not say old school or new school for these images.

Posterior elbow impingement on the throwing arm. Osteo side shows no damage or inflammation. MRI next week. Padlock on all throwing activities. Kid is a cucumber, mom is poorly hiding her worry for her baby, dad is making lemonade and hopes his kid will persevere and be a better/stronger person from this.

2022NYC hoping for the best for ya’ll. 

I think Old School is the way it has always been done.  Doesn't even want to discuss using technology and makes you run for everything.  Play through it, rub some dirt on it.  My way or the highway.  Usually don't make good AC's unless the HC is also old school.  Had one of these and I had to have multiple conversations with him.  Alienates himself from parents and players.

New School is the guys who talk launch angle, technology, bat speed, exit velo, and use new ideas to get them where they need to be.  More relational in their discipline and how they deal with players. 

I have moved from old school to new school in just a short time.  I've seen the results of new school outweighing new school.  It is interesting because you can pick out the guys on here that are old school by their responses and criticism of new ideas. 

PitchingFan posted:

I think Old School is the way it has always been done.  Doesn't even want to discuss using technology and makes you run for everything.  Play through it, rub some dirt on it.  My way or the highway.  Usually don't make good AC's unless the HC is also old school.  Had one of these and I had to have multiple conversations with him.  Alienates himself from parents and players.

New School is the guys who talk launch angle, technology, bat speed, exit velo, and use new ideas to get them where they need to be.  More relational in their discipline and how they deal with players. 

I have moved from old school to new school in just a short time.  I've seen the results of new school outweighing new school.  It is interesting because you can pick out the guys on here that are old school by their responses and criticism of new ideas. 

My point is the words have become stereotypes.

PitchingFan posted:

I think Old School is the way it has always been done.  Doesn't even want to discuss using technology and makes you run for everything.  Play through it, rub some dirt on it.  My way or the highway.  Usually don't make good AC's unless the HC is also old school.  Had one of these and I had to have multiple conversations with him.  Alienates himself from parents and players.

New School is the guys who talk launch angle, technology, bat speed, exit velo, and use new ideas to get them where they need to be.  More relational in their discipline and how they deal with players. 

I have moved from old school to new school in just a short time.  I've seen the results of new school outweighing new school.  It is interesting because you can pick out the guys on here that are old school by their responses and criticism of new ideas. 

I take issue with your definitions of both old school and new school. When I have more time on my hands I may offer up my own definitions for your amusement. But for now I would summarize my thoughts by saying that IMO the best coaches draw from both schools.  You can’t be stuck in the past and not adapt. But you also can’t be totally dependent on technology. Many things that can be measured are important but all of them aren’t. Anything that can be measured has to translate into game performance in order for it to matter. That is the biggest disconnect I see with people that use measurables as their go to for discussing a baseball player’s level of ability. Measurables don’t always translate into skills. 

Not disagreeing but I would be interested in which ones you think do not relate to skills.  I agree many guys are numbers only and I don't consider those guys new schools, those guys are techie.  But the usable numbers took me a while to understand and begin to implement.  I believe most of the numbers relate to some area of skill when accounted for in a game not in a showcase.  I still believe in the eye test.  Showcase numbers can be manipulated but game numbers are more realistic.  When you see game numbers, you also see kids who pass the eye test. 

Go44dad posted:

PitchingFan posted:

I think Old School is the way it has always been done.  Doesn't even want to discuss using technology and makes you run for everything.  Play through it, rub some dirt on it.  My way or the highway.  Usually don't make good AC's unless the HC is also old school.  Had one of these and I had to have multiple conversations with him.  Alienates himself from parents and players.

New School is the guys who talk launch angle, technology, bat speed, exit velo, and use new ideas to get them where they need to be.  More relational in their discipline and how they deal with players. 

I have moved from old school to new school in just a short time.  I've seen the results of new school outweighing new school.  It is interesting because you can pick out the guys on here that are old school by their responses and criticism of new ideas. 

My point is the words have become stereotypes.

They are stereotypes.  No different than PO means you can't hit but that is not always true.  Some college and pro pitchers who only pitch are great hitters.  I don't think you have to be one or the other but when you classify yourself one or the other and believe it then you have stereotyped yourself.  You are telling people what you are by your own definition as the OP's AC has done.  I think you can be both but I've found myself moving quickly away from Old School and more to New School in my approach to players and use of technology and new ideas. 

I started using Core Velocity Belt in pitching lessons and my guys have made huge jumps in velocity.  I did not buy their belt at $370 but bought two items on Amazon for $50 that does the same thing.  One jumped 5 mph in three sessions and one broke his personal best and put on 3 mph in his ride speed in 4 sessions.  I've never been a fan of gadgets but this and a few other things have changed my mind.

PitchingFan posted:

Not disagreeing but I would be interested in which ones you think do not relate to skills.  I agree many guys are numbers only and I don't consider those guys new schools, those guys are techie.  But the usable numbers took me a while to understand and begin to implement.  I believe most of the numbers relate to some area of skill when accounted for in a game not in a showcase.  I still believe in the eye test.  Showcase numbers can be manipulated but game numbers are more realistic.  When you see game numbers, you also see kids who pass the eye test. 

Game numbers are all that matter. But the overwhelming amount of numbers that are measured are in Showcase or practice settings. Exit Velo is a perfect example. Putting a ball on a tee and measuring the speed that it comes off the bat while generated by a manufactured swing means absolutely nothing. What matters is Exit Velo in game competition. Same is true with fastball velo. It doesn’t matter how hard you can throw the ball if you can’t command it in a game. You know how I know that? Because I threw 94 mph ball 4 a thousand times before I learned to gear back to 90 and command the baseball. Same is true with spin rate. High spin rate on a FB doesn’t do you any good if you can’t locate it. Great speed in the 60 doesn’t matter if you take bad angles to the ball and don’t know how to run the bases. I can go on and on. The point is that you have to be good at playing the game for the measurables to be relevant. You can’t measure desire, coachability, heart, and attitude. All of those things are important too. Technology is important and can help any player improve their game. But IMO you need to learn the fundamentals of how to play the game first, and then apply technology to get better. Too many people have the cart before the horse. 

To me, old school would refer to guys that teach things the same way I was taught back in the early 90's. These guys aren't necessarily still saying squish the bug, but it isn't far from it. I see it more with my son and catching. He was going to a guy for a while for lessons that I feel gave him good fundamentals, but a lot of it was the same stuff I was taught in high school. By chance, we were introduced to a new guy who has a ton of new drills, new receiving ideas/techniques, and he sends us videos all the time of things he wants to try. 

Basically, I guess I see the 2 as one is stubborn and it is their way or the highway, and the other is more forward thinking and looking to try new ideas.

adbono posted:

PitchingFan posted:

Not disagreeing but I would be interested in which ones you think do not relate to skills.  I agree many guys are numbers only and I don't consider those guys new schools, those guys are techie.  But the usable numbers took me a while to understand and begin to implement.  I believe most of the numbers relate to some area of skill when accounted for in a game not in a showcase.  I still believe in the eye test.  Showcase numbers can be manipulated but game numbers are more realistic.  When you see game numbers, you also see kids who pass the eye test. 

Game numbers are all that matter. But the overwhelming amount of numbers that are measured are in Showcase or practice settings. Exit Velo is a perfect example. Putting a ball on a tee and measuring the speed that it comes off the bat while generated by a manufactured swing means absolutely nothing. What matters is Exit Velo in game competition. Same is true with fastball velo. It doesn’t matter how hard you can throw the ball if you can’t command it in a game. You know how I know that? Because I threw 94 mph ball 4 a thousand times before I learned to gear back to 90 and command the baseball. Same is true with spin rate. High spin rate on a FB doesn’t do you any good if you can’t locate it. Great speed in the 60 doesn’t matter if you take bad angles to the ball and don’t know how to run the bases. I can go on and on. The point is that you have to be good at playing the game for the measurables to be relevant. You can’t measure desire, coachability, heart, and attitude. All of those things are important too. Technology is important and can help any player improve their game. But IMO you need to learn the fundamentals of how to play the game first, and then apply technology to get better. Too many people have the cart before the horse. 

This!  All you have to do is go on Twitter and see the guys pimping their 95 MPH FB videos, then check out their MiLB stats and 5/9 BB:IP ratio.  There's a reason why they're stuck in low A ball with that velocity.

CTbballDad posted:

adbono posted:

Game numbers are all that matter. But the overwhelming amount of numbers that are measured are in Showcase or practice settings. Exit Velo is a perfect example. Putting a ball on a tee and measuring the speed that it comes off the bat while generated by a manufactured swing means absolutely nothing. What matters is Exit Velo in game competition. Same is true with fastball velo. It doesn’t matter how hard you can throw the ball if you can’t command it in a game. You know how I know that? Because I threw 94 mph ball 4 a thousand times before I learned to gear back to 90 and command the baseball. Same is true with spin rate. High spin rate on a FB doesn’t do you any good if you can’t locate it. Great speed in the 60 doesn’t matter if you take bad angles to the ball and don’t know how to run the bases. I can go on and on. The point is that you have to be good at playing the game for the measurables to be relevant. You can’t measure desire, coachability, heart, and attitude. All of those things are important too. Technology is important and can help any player improve their game. But IMO you need to learn the fundamentals of how to play the game first, and then apply technology to get better. Too many people have the cart before the horse. 

This!  All you have to do is go on Twitter and see the guys pimping their 95 MPH FB videos, then check out their MiLB stats and 5/9 BB:IP ratio.  There's a reason why they're stuck in low A ball with that velocity.

But doesn't the ability to throw 94 is what allows you to throw 90 with command as opposed to maxing out at 90 and having to come down to throwing 85 with command?

atlnon posted:

CTbballDad posted:

adbono posted:

Game numbers are all that matter. But the overwhelming amount of numbers that are measured are in Showcase or practice settings. Exit Velo is a perfect example. Putting a ball on a tee and measuring the speed that it comes off the bat while generated by a manufactured swing means absolutely nothing. What matters is Exit Velo in game competition. Same is true with fastball velo. It doesn’t matter how hard you can throw the ball if you can’t command it in a game. You know how I know that? Because I threw 94 mph ball 4 a thousand times before I learned to gear back to 90 and command the baseball. Same is true with spin rate. High spin rate on a FB doesn’t do you any good if you can’t locate it. Great speed in the 60 doesn’t matter if you take bad angles to the ball and don’t know how to run the bases. I can go on and on. The point is that you have to be good at playing the game for the measurables to be relevant. You can’t measure desire, coachability, heart, and attitude. All of those things are important too. Technology is important and can help any player improve their game. But IMO you need to learn the fundamentals of how to play the game first, and then apply technology to get better. Too many people have the cart before the horse. 

This!  All you have to do is go on Twitter and see the guys pimping their 95 MPH FB videos, then check out their MiLB stats and 5/9 BB:IP ratio.  There's a reason why they're stuck in low A ball with that velocity.

But doesn't the ability to throw 94 is what allows you to throw 90 with command as opposed to maxing out at 90 and having to come down to throwing 85 with command?

I would argue that if you learn proper mechanics there doesn’t need to be that kind of drop off. If you learn to command the baseball before the emphasis is put on velocity there will be a much smaller discrepancy. But nobody wants to go on Twitter and talk about how well they command the baseball. They only want to talk about how hard they can throw. Pitchers win games by commanding the baseball and changing speeds effectively. That’s what gets hitters out. 

Broke his coach’s taillight at practice yesterday 😊

HomeField2020 posted:

Broke his coach’s taillight at practice yesterday 😊

Parked in the bomb range. 

HomeField2020 posted:

Broke his coach’s taillight at practice yesterday 😊

Opening night in two weeks. 🤩

hshuler posted:

Opening night in two weeks. 🤩

Best of luck to your son! Hope he has a great senior year! 

In Texas, tomorrow is first day of practices for public schools.

Yes, we have our first scrimmage next Saturday.

baseballhs posted:

Yes, we have our first scrimmage next Saturday.

Good luck, thanks and same to your guy and team!

Go44dad posted:

In Texas, tomorrow is first day of practices for public schools

Best wishes to HK and squad!

Tryouts are tomorrow and Saturday.  First exhibition game is a week from Saturday.  My 2022 is feeling pretty good about his chances to make Varsity but will not find out until Monday.

His school is a traditionally average team in a pretty decent 6A Division 1 (largest classification) district.

Here in FL we have been scrimmaging for 2 weeks and begin to play exhibition games Tuesday. The season starts 2/10. We will travel to Hoover, AL and Lake Point for HS tournaments in March.  Looking forward to a great season playing some top-notch competition. Melancholy because it's his senior season. But, excited for his future playing college ball!

Best of luck to everyone!

Go44dad posted:

In Texas, tomorrow is first day of practices for public schools.

Best day of the year.  High expectations as always.  Hope for a healthy season for all.

2022's tryouts start Monday, with the JV team only. Son is probably looked at as a PO but would like to be considered a two-way player.  He's working on all parts of his game  Any potential varsity players are invited to the Varsity tryouts a week later. Vars only lost two starting field players but lost 5 out of ten pitchers.  I'm ambivalent about where he ends up. Not sure how durable his arm is and I can't think of any pitchers who have gone through the program doing so without arm issues.  He'll throw more on JV but maybe more than he should.  He won't throw a lot on Vars but that might be better for his arm in the long run.

Any suggestions for helping him learn how to close out hitters?  He gives up too many two-strike hits. Does a good job getting ahead in the count but something's not clicking with his two strike pitches.

smokeminside posted:

2022's tryouts start Monday, with the JV team only. Son is probably looked at as a PO but would like to be considered a two-way player.  He's working on all parts of his game  Any potential varsity players are invited to the Varsity tryouts a week later. Vars only lost two starting field players but lost 5 out of ten pitchers.  I'm ambivalent about where he ends up. Not sure how durable his arm is and I can't think of any pitchers who have gone through the program doing so without arm issues.  He'll throw more on JV but maybe more than he should.  He won't throw a lot on Vars but that might be better for his arm in the long run.

Any suggestions for helping him learn how to close out hitters?  He gives up too many two-strike hits. Does a good job getting ahead in the count but something's not clicking with his two strike pitches.

I think Maddux sums it up nicely.....

https://twitter.com/PitchingNi...674921375977473?s=09

22and25 posted:

Tryouts are tomorrow and Saturday.  First exhibition game is a week from Saturday.  My 2022 is feeling pretty good about his chances to make Varsity but will not find out until Monday.

 

His school is a traditionally average team in a pretty decent 6A Division 1 (largest classification) district.

2022 had his post tryouts sit down with the coaches yesterday afternoon.  He will be in the starting rotation for the Varsity squad this spring right behind a 2021 top 20 P5 commit.  First exhibition game is this Saturday.....let's goooooooo!

Congrats to your son and thx for the Maddox quote,  22/25. Really interesting, given that my guys coaches are telling him to throw curves in the dirt on 0-2 to try to get guys to chase. I think he just has to be more precise and stay focused on the edges of the strike zone on  0-2. He’s a divergent thinker. Needs self control. Not that I would know anything about that. 

smokeminside posted:

Congrats to your son and thx for the Maddox quote,  22/25. Really interesting, given that my guys coaches are telling him to throw curves in the dirt on 0-2 to try to get guys to chase. I think he just has to be more precise and stay focused on the edges of the strike zone on  0-2. He’s a divergent thinker. Needs self control. Not that I would know anything about that. 

Unless he has something he hasn't shown that he can throw for a strike, I wouldn't throw anything they can hit on 0-2. I hate seeing kids set up a foot off the plate 0-2 as you aren't going to get someone to chase that bad. I love the curve in the dirt 0-2 if he hasn't shown it that at bat. Guess it depends if you are looking for an out or looking for a strikeout.

My 2023 (granted, this all worked against youth teams and hasn't pitched a single high school pitch yet) would go to a slide step 0-2, would throw a filthy knuckle ball 0-2, drop down side arm, you name it he would throw it. Most of his K's though would come after a couple balls and foul balls. Very rarely did he strike many kids out on 3 pitches.

Went  by tryouts yesterday just to watch and see some kids we do lessons with.  I will say to you guys that in the process.  Don't miss it.  It flies by.  I can't go watch 2019 practice but I will drive 3 hours each way every time he plays to see him play or even sit the bench.  Enjoy the Ride!

So far the hs "practices" have gone as expected.  Not much organization, coaches aren't around much.  My guess is that they are focusing on the older kids, which I understand - Varsity should be the focus. Tryouts are 3/2.  Should start to get interesting.  I am surprised at the number of kids who have quit before tryouts (about 5 or 6).  Not that they would have made the freshman team, but still give it a shot!

My kid has been cleared to hit but no throwing for 2-3 more weeks. He is hitting with his HS team on Friday.   

Tryouts start next week.  Jr will be a senior and should be the #1 P on an admittedly not very strong staff. The team should be competitive, but is probably playing for 2d or 3rd in the conference at best.  I'm a little concerned the boy is looking past this year to college ball--I hope he will enjoy this last HS season. (Youth really is wasted on the young...)  He is my youngest and an empty nest is coming up quickly.  I'm going be at every game I can.

smokeminside posted:

Congrats to your son and thx for the Maddox quote,  22/25. Really interesting, given that my guys coaches are telling him to throw curves in the dirt on 0-2 to try to get guys to chase. I think he just has to be more precise and stay focused on the edges of the strike zone on  0-2. He’s a divergent thinker. Needs self control. Not that I would know anything about that. 

I'm no pitching coach, but in his MLB days Maddux was throwing to guys who were a lot less likely to be fooled if he bounced a curve ball.  And it also was going to be pretty rare that Maddux accidentally got too much of the plate when trying to put an 0-2 curve on the corner.  A breaking ball in the dirt is a much more viable option for amateur pitchers throwing to amateur hitters.