34 player rosters-one opinion

@adbono posted:

  From the perspective of the players & parents, an expectation that (since you were recruited) a player had a roster spot for 4 years, regardless of how he performs, when he arrives on campus is totally unrealistic outside of D3.

You know this, I know it (from reading this site), everyone here knows this.  But most people don't.  Should there be disclosure, or should it just be buyer beware?

Lots of people buy clunker cars, too.

@PABaseball posted:

I'm of the opinion each school should have to make a documented formal offer in writing,

Yes, and these should be allowed with no age limit.  If 9th-graders could sign contracts with colleges, you could bet that early offers and "commitments" would vanish quicker than smoke.  No coach would want to be legally bound to someone at age 14; they would hold off until senior year.

@PABaseball posted:

The roster limit was always 35. Bringing it back to 34 really should not be an issue. I get it, they upped the roster limits and now there need to be cuts.

To get upset about that is shortsighted. What people should be yelling at the clouds about is the fact that the NCAA (and society) made a bunch of reactionary decisions in 2020. Everybody gets to play, everybody gets to stay. There are now 5x All Americans in a league where you only have 4 years of eligibility. Make that make sense.

In a very short period of time we saw an extra year of eligibility added, the MLB draft get shortened by 88%, roster expansion, penalty free transfers, blanket waivers, NIL deals, now roster reduction, and 100% scholarships for those who can afford it.

This whole situation was caused by those who preached doomsday in 2020 and pushed for what was wanted and not what made sense. It is now the wild west. The people got what they wanted and they don't like it. The parallels to the world beyond sports are eerily similar.

Agree with overall premise.

Can't lose a year of eligility if you don't play.

MLB eliminating 40 minor league teams removed jobs.

Decision by SCOTUS forced more open market based on $$$.

Since it is a business, unless the player is under contract for x number of years, should a player be penalized for looking for other opportunities?

@anotherparent posted:

Have to say I don't agree.  The model is the college process generally.

To be admitted to a college as a student, you apply and are accepted, you pay tuition, and attend classes.  They don't give you more tests after you get there, and turn some people away.   If you do the work, you will get a degree.

That's the model I think people assume for college baseball.  You get recruited, are accepted with some kind of offer, work hard, and have a roster spot.

The assumption is that if you have been offered a spot on the team, the coach has already kicked the tires, just like the admissions office has.  Obviously the coach will be evaluating you for playing time, but why would anyone assume that the coach is going to be doing more evaluation with an eye to rejecting you?  Unless he has told you that is what he does.

@anotherparent based on the number of players on rosters, the coach is kicking a lot of tires.

Here is some info that may be of interest to those interested in researching D1 baseball programs.

Athletic D1 teams are not required to post fall rosters. It's not the coaching staffs job.

One of the conclusions I came to after making inquiries, gathering new transfer bio as well as updating current player info has slowed down the process.

I can't speak for all divisions, but D1 programs employ staff that inputs student information to the SID (Student Information Director). Depending on the size of the institution, depends on staff, many are grad students. That SID is also responsible for all published info written for the team. It's a big job.

I can't say why coaches over recruit. Each has their own reason. I can give some info on how to determine if the coaching staff is legit.  Until a definite ruling comes down from NCAA parents and players will have to determine whether that coach you want to play for is ethical or not.

@TPM posted:

Here is some info that may be of interest to those interested in researching D1 baseball programs.

Athletic D1 teams are not required to post fall rosters. It's not the coaching staffs job.

One of the conclusions I came to after making inquiries, gathering new transfer bio as well as updating current player info has slowed down the process.

I can't speak for all divisions, but D1 programs employ staff that inputs student information to the SID (Student Information Director). Depending on the size of the institution, depends on staff, many are grad students. That SID is also responsible for all published info written for the team. It's a big job.

I can't say why coaches over recruit. Each has their own reason. I can give some info on how to determine if the coaching staff is legit.  Until a definite ruling comes down from NCAA parents and players will have to determine whether that coach you want to play for is ethical or not.

@tpm  good  to know.  based on what we've extracted over the years, you can see which schools have the resources to maintained roster information for all sport programs.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@tpm  good  to know.  based on what we've extracted over the years, you can see which schools have the resources to maintained roster information for all sport programs.

@TPM posted:

Here is some info that may be of interest to those interested in researching D1 baseball programs.

Athletic D1 teams are not required to post fall rosters. It's not the coaching staffs job.

One of the conclusions I came to after making inquiries, gathering new transfer bio as well as updating current player info has slowed down the process.

I can't speak for all divisions, but D1 programs employ staff that inputs student information to the SID (Student Information Director). Depending on the size of the institution, depends on staff, many are grad students. That SID is also responsible for all published info written for the team. It's a big job.

I can't say why coaches over recruit. Each has their own reason. I can give some info on how to determine if the coaching staff is legit.  Until a definite ruling comes down from NCAA parents and players will have to determine whether that coach you want to play for is ethical or not.

@TPM what we've noticed, as colleges have switched from custom to sidearm or presto, the data has gotten better.

Within d1 most are 85% good, HBCU programs are lacking.

With respect to other divisions:

d2 - ok, might be missing transfer data

d3 - ok, normally missing transfer data

NAIA - Incomplete, definitely missing transfer data, high school

JUCO normally incomplete, definitely missing previous school (if college),

NCCAA/ USCAA - similar to NAIA

@PABaseball posted:

To answer this part.

The process is far too informal. There should be formal offers and accountability for the programs. I'm of the opinion each school should have to make a documented formal offer in writing, and there should be a hard cap on how many offers each school can make and a cap on the size each recruiting class. Once a formal offer is made schools cannot renege. Let's say you could only make 50 offers and you can only bring in 12 recruits/class - wouldn't we think coaching staffs would be more inclined to do their homework, develop relationships, watch these kids for 2-3 years before making a decision? Up until recently even football had a hard cap of 25 recruits/class.

One of the many issues is there is no accountability or discipline for the schools. In order to prevent over recruiting, oversight from a governing body would be necessary.

Sure you still get your 3rd parties making back door deals and what not but there is no confusion. You either have a formal offer or you do not. Eliminates any confusion when it comes to an offer being there. Verbals are garbage and leaves the players/families solely reliant on the integrity of the staff. It needs to be taken out of the equation completely.

Essentially a capped NLI with a much larger signing window

@pabaseball

"wouldn't we think coaching staffs would be more inclined to do their homework, develop relationships, watch these kids for 2-3 years before making a decision?"

Unfortunate the numbers don't bear out, there is more supply than demand, if I'm the coach, and the cap is 34, then I want an additional 6 to 8 student athletes for the fall semester. IMHO, that is not over-recruiting, that is having reserves as a just in case.

As for capped NLI, with larger signing window, I'm assuming that you are referring specific to HS players. What would you propose as a fair signing window for HS Players?

With respect to head coaching changes, how does that factor into the process? Would there be exceptions to the rules?

HC Changes normally create a domino effect, which trigger student athletes to search for other opportunities.

Post Covid (2021) -Roughly 14% - 16% HC Turnover annually.

E.G. Mitch Hannahs left Indiana State ->  USF

Tracy Archuleta left Southern Indiana -> Indiana State

Southern Indiana hired Chris Ramirez on July 7th,

https://collegebaseballinsight...l-coaching-carousel/

Here is what Chris Ramirez did to recruit for the fall

2024 fall roster by position and graduation class

Players that are not on 2024 fall roster

Incoming recruiting class

I need my coffee to read over the above but I agree there has to be accountability.

From my understanding the NLI, which has become worthless, will be replaced with a written contract and 5th,6th year players will become obsolete.

JMO

One other point to make in this discussion.

Every college coach has to answer to his/her boss, the AD who also employ assistant ADs and compliance people to each team. A coach doesn't decide on his own to bring in huge numbers.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@pabaseball

"wouldn't we think coaching staffs would be more inclined to do their homework, develop relationships, watch these kids for 2-3 years before making a decision?"

Unfortunate the numbers don't bear out, there is more supply than demand, if I'm the coach, and the cap is 34, then I want an additional 6 to 8 student athletes for the fall semester. IMHO, that is not over-recruiting, that is having reserves as a just in case.

As for capped NLI, with larger signing window, I'm assuming that you are referring specific to HS players. What would you propose as a fair signing window for HS Players?

With respect to head coaching changes, how does that factor into the process? Would there be exceptions to the rules?

HC Changes normally create a domino effect, which trigger student athletes to search for other opportunities.

The bolded is predicated on the idea that there will be some sort of formal offer which would be capped. If coaches could only put out X amount of offers. I have to believe this would be the case. Prior to Covid there were reserves (just in case) - they were walk ons and you were allowed 8 after the 27 scholarship players were accounted for.

A fair signing window would be from June 1 entering senior year until Aug 1 entering college. If the draft kills you, transfers kill you, etc you essentially have until school starts to backfill those positions. This is where you go and get your transfers, your late bloomers, etc. This also prevents premature commitments and lower likelihood of HC change.

And in order to hold the recruit accountable, the only time they should be able to able to walk away from their commitment would be for a HC change.

Colleges have been more concerned with getting there first, not getting their guys. This eliminates that.