34 player rosters-one opinion

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@Mechanized What is your definition of changing the rules of the game in the middle?

As for a 3 yr look back it depends on the school, as for not all schools have drastically changed post covid.

When you say 3 yr look back is useless, is it based on your research efforts or something else?

note, 3 yr look back is only for schools that have coaches more than 3 yrs, otherwise you would look at the new hires, and 1 yr  tenure with a different perspective.

My definition of changing the rules of the  game in the middle is sending your kid to college who’s on a respectable athletic scholarship to a school where he was scouted , recruited and put up respectable numbers in the Fall only to be told he’s getting redshirted and not likely to make the roster next year due to reduced roster sizes  because the HC took 6 additional kids from the portal a month before Fall workouts because the HC was not aware that the  NCAA was reducing  roster sizes . This again all AFTER  you showed up on campus.
This is why all the research you speak of is useless because things are changing so rapidly.
Coaches now have to reduce their rosters by almost double of what they normally would.
If the HC’s knew this prior to the Fall they most likely wouldn’t have recruited as many freshman and simply went to the portal to fill out their rosters without over recruiting.

@Mechanized posted:

My definition of changing the rules of the  game in the middle is sending your kid to college who’s on a respectable athletic scholarship to a school where he was scouted , recruited and put up respectable numbers in the Fall only to be told he’s getting redshirted and not likely to make the roster next year due to reduced roster sizes  because the HC took 6 additional kids from the portal a month before Fall workouts because the HC was not aware that the  NCAA was reducing  roster sizes . This again all AFTER  you showed up on campus.
This is why all the research you speak of is useless because things are changing so rapidly.
Coaches now have to reduce their rosters by almost double of what they normally would.
If the HC’s knew this prior to the Fall they most likely wouldn’t have recruited as many freshman and simply went to the portal to fill out their rosters without over recruiting.

@Mechanized  this has been discussed at ABCA the last couple of years, coaches knew this was coming sooner or later.

Note, the question is "What is the history of the team bringing talent from the transfer portal or JUCO ranks?

How many transfer students do they normally have?

Did he initially have your son earmarked for a collegiate summer league? If so, which one? Note, this is a open ended question that provides another little data point with respect to the coaches sincerity

IMHO, The coach stating there is no room on the 34 man roster, when the number of players for the fall roster size is tbd.

As stated before, IMHO a fall roster size of 34 is not realistic, note it could happen. A fairer number would be 39 to 42.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Arthur is a great guy and always willing to help but I agree with you. It is very difficult to use his data right now to come up with a plan for the next couple years. Your son's situation is particularly egregious.  He performed fine in the fall: ERA 3.9. He's getting screwed.  BUT all these coaches actually knew something like this was coming.  It's been talked about since early this year, if not earlier. So, in this case, they really did recruit those 6 extra players with a pretty good idea that a bunch of other kids are going to get #&@$@#.  People can say college baseball has always been like this, etc, etc but this really is different.

My 2023's D2 situation? I get that. My kid should work on playing better and if an opportunity presents itself, be ready.  My 2025? I'm happy he has no shot of playing D1 baseball. That is a complete shitshow right now. I'm so disillusioned with the NCAA, travel ball, recruiting, and college sports in general. You have a right to be a little bitter.  But I sincerely hope he finds a path that is fulfilling and happy.

Yes in my opinion D1 baseball is a sh$t show right now. I guess in the coming years it will work itself out. We have a decent plan to continue the journey.
My sons little league Coach years ago said it best. Little League is the best baseball you’ll ever play because after this it’s all biusiness. He was right. I wish your boys the best on their journey.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@Mechanized  this has been discussed at ABCA the last couple of years, coaches knew this was coming sooner or later.

Note, the question is "What is the history of the team bringing talent from the transfer portal or JUCO ranks?

How many transfer students do they normally have?

Did he initially have your son earmarked for a collegiate summer league? If so, which one? Note, this is a open ended question that provides another little data point with respect to the coaches sincerity

IMHO, The coach stating there is no room on the 34 man roster, when the number of players for the fall roster size is tbd.

As stated before, IMHO a fall roster size of 34 is not realistic, note it could happen. A fairer number would be 39 to 42.

Yes I recently learned this was a topic of discussion at ABCA.
I think most HC’s still did business as usual in regards to recruiting as to CYA in case the changes didn’t come to fruition.
In regards to history of recruiting at this school almost all PG commits in the past made the spring roster with few exceptions. This year was the first they went heavy on the portal.
And yes my son was to play in the PG collegiate summer league. He was even assigned a team.
is what it is. I just was sharing the reality of what is happening. He will continue to grind it out and and I think he’ll be better for it.
I hope you’re right about the roster sizes. Because next year 1800 kids will be in for a rude awakening .

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Arthur is a great guy and always willing to help but I agree with you. It is very difficult to use his data right now to come up with a plan for the next couple years. Your son's situation is particularly egregious.  He performed fine in the fall: ERA 3.9. He's getting screwed.  BUT all these coaches actually knew something like this was coming.  It's been talked about since early this year, if not earlier. So, in this case, they really did recruit those 6 extra players with a pretty good idea that a bunch of other kids are going to get #&@$@#.  People can say college baseball has always been like this, etc, etc but this really is different.

My 2023's D2 situation? I get that. My kid should work on playing better and if an opportunity presents itself, be ready.  My 2025? I'm happy he has no shot of playing D1 baseball. That is a complete shitshow right now. I'm so disillusioned with the NCAA, travel ball, recruiting, and college sports in general. You have a right to be a little bitter.  But I sincerely hope he finds a path that is fulfilling and happy.

@Dadbelly2023 I will make 3 points:

1 - Permission was  not given to you to include my name.

2 - It was floated around at least 2 years ago by ABCA (just not officially published)

3 - In the case of @Mechanized situation, what is the long game

- coach brings in freshman class (2024  class)

- coach brings in transfer portal (y)

- son is being re-shirted. how many players are they carrying for the 2025 season?

- did the coach offer his son a development plan? is there a collegiate summer league to help said development?

- Would the development give him the opportunity to be one of the 34 players for the 2025-26 season?

Note, @Mechanized answer this in his response

IMHO, it is not what they say, it is what they don't say.

@Mechanized posted:

Yes I recently learned this was a topic of discussion at ABCA.
I think most HC’s still did business as usual in regards to recruiting as to CYA in case the changes didn’t come to fruition.
In regards to history of recruiting at this school almost all PG commits in the past made the spring roster with few exceptions. This year was the first they went heavy on the portal.
And yes my son was to play in the PG collegiate summer league. He was even assigned a team.
is what it is. I just was sharing the reality of what is happening. He will continue to grind it out and and I think he’ll be better for it.
I hope you’re right about the roster sizes. Because next year 1800 kids will be in for a rude awakening .

@Mechanized

As for a rude awakening, it doesn't matter with respects to the timing. if a coach is allowed to bring in 39 to 42 players for the fall, he will need to officially reduce roster sizes to 34 by spring in the form of cuts, red-shirting (???) ,etc.   So as a student athlete and a family, is this any different than the current situation of being player 35 to 40 (or in some cases 47).

Do you know how they came up with 1800 roster slots?

Assumes reducing roster size from 40 to 34 (6) multiplied by 300 teams.

Note, in 2024 there were 104 out of 305 teams that had more than 40 players on their rosters.

10 had roster size of 34

17 had roster sizes less than 34

the rest had between 35 and 40

There are now 307 D1 baseball programs

here is the dashboard that you can use to see the roster sizes by year

https://collegebaseballinsight...nover-insights-free/

Note, "Data doesn't lie, people Do".  You need to read through the some of it, note coaches are creatures of habit, check out the habits.

Yes, it is crazy on many fronts, but remember there is always data trail, some data will evolve.

Note, I've been looking at this stuff since 2015, had data as far back as a 2011 (not published),

There are 3 types of analytics:

descriptive

prescriptive

predictive

Good luck

@Mechanized

So if I understand correctly, your son was told by coach that he will be a RS this coming season. He was not cut from the program or school or told that he could not attend summer ball in the PG summer league? You feel because coach brought in older players your son got screwed. You claim coach didn't know about the possibility of the new roster rules for next year (I don't understand that). Was the coach new to the team?

FWIW, redshirt does not mean that your son is no longer part of the team. I am sure that you are aware that he can practice, receive instruction and dress in uniform, while attending class. The coach gave him an opportunity to preserve one year of eligibility, get bigger, stronger, and do well in school. Do you agree?

The coach could have kept him on the roster, pitched him in 1 game and he would have lost a year of doing nothing. Do you agree on that also?

My son has a pitcher who will be a RS sophmore (third season). As a highly regarded recruit out of a top ranked HS, as a RS freshman last year, he mowed down the competition  and had an excellent summer at the Cape. This year he is projected to be a weekend starter and hear his name called in the draft next summer.

I understand that you are frustrated because your son did well in the fall. The way I see it, more or less he is in a better opportunity to be successful.

Most important he was not cut and asked to go home.

@Mechanized  with respect to recruiting strategies, some of the subtle movements started in 2022, here is a comparison of the P5 for 2023 and 2024 seasons.

As Walter Beede has alluded, teams are getting older, development at other divisions.  The cap accelerates the change.

@TPM posted:

@Mechanized

So if I understand correctly, your son was told by coach that he will be a RS this coming season. He was not cut from the program or school or told that he could not attend summer ball in the PG summer league? You feel because coach brought in older players your son got screwed. You claim coach didn't know about the possibility of the new roster rules for next year (I don't understand that). Was the coach new to the team?

FWIW, redshirt does not mean that your son is no longer part of the team. I am sure that you are aware that he can practice, receive instruction and dress in uniform, while attending class. The coach gave him an opportunity to preserve one year of eligibility, get bigger, stronger, and do well in school. Do you agree?

The coach could have kept him on the roster, pitched him in 1 game and he would have lost a year of doing nothing. Do you agree on that also?

My son has a pitcher who will be a RS sophmore (third season). As a highly regarded recruit out of a top ranked HS, as a RS freshman last year, he mowed down the competition  and had an excellent summer at the Cape. This year he is projected to be a weekend starter and hear his name called in the draft next summer.

I understand that you are frustrated because your son did well in the fall. The way I see it, more or less he is in a better opportunity to be successful.

Most important he was not cut and asked to go home.

Basically he was told he could red shirt but will NOT be on the roster next year. So to me that’s being cut.
He entered college a year late (gap year) due to injury and doesn’t want to sit out another season.
With the uncertainty of what the roster sizes will be next season I guess the coach is thinning the heard now and recovering scholarship $ for next year. Who knows.
what I agree with you on is my son is determined and will be better for it. He’s most likely going to a very competitive D2 since he can’t laterally transfer to a D1 now and play. He will also be playing summer ball hopefully putting up some good numbers to get back to a competitive D1 school that fits him academically as well as athletically. Time will tell. I understand this happens and my son’s situation isn’t unique. Not posting to cry on anyone’s shoulder just sharing his experience to maybe help others

@Mechanized

In order to receive redshirt year and receive scholarship $$, I am pretty sure he has to remain on the team and attend classes.

That's my understanding.

You failed to mention, or I missed, that he had an injury and took a gap year.

As I read it, the coach told him that he wouldn't play this year (i.e. would redshirt) even if he stayed (with his scholarship), and that he would be cut at the end of the season.

In other words, the coach "encouraged" him to leave now and find a place to play this spring.  That way the coach gets his scholarship and roster spot back, to give to another player this spring.

Presumably he could decide to stay, keep his scholarship and roster spot and class schedule.  And that would kind of screw over the coach, but might end his baseball career.

Mechanized, I'm glad he is finding a place to go, and I hope it all works out.  I know that coaches used to cut non-scholarship walk-ons in the fall all the time, and there were cases like your son's, too, but I think it's sad that this is now commonplace.

@anotherparent posted:

As I read it, the coach told him that he wouldn't play this year (i.e. would redshirt) even if he stayed (with his scholarship), and that he would be cut at the end of the season.

In other words, the coach "encouraged" him to leave now and find a place to play this spring.  That way the coach gets his scholarship and roster spot back, to give to another player this spring.

Presumably he could decide to stay, keep his scholarship and roster spot and class schedule.  And that would kind of screw over the coach, but might end his baseball career.

Mechanized, I'm glad he is finding a place to go, and I hope it all works out.  I know that coaches used to cut non-scholarship walk-ons in the fall all the time, and there were cases like your son's, too, but I think it's sad that this is now commonplace.

You got it exactly right.
That is exactly what happened. And yes he could stay and take classes on their dime but he would basically be hurting himself with the baseball side. I appreciate this board and all of the responses. I told my son if you are still playing any level of college baseball your the one of  luckiest kids around. Be greatful

@Mechanized posted:

You got it exactly right.
That is exactly what happened. And yes he could stay and take classes on their dime but he would basically be hurting himself with the baseball side. I appreciate this board and all of the responses. I told my son if you are still playing any level of college baseball your the one of  luckiest kids around. Be greatful

This is an excellent perspective. It’s also true - and about to become even more so.  
  IMO (and this may not be popular) there is a lot more behind the recent (and soon to come) changes in D1 college baseball than some realize. I believe it’s a thinning of the herd - at the direction of MLB, in order to make scouting easier and add more certainty to draft picks. MLB wants only the very best players in D1 college baseball. They don’t want to watch a hitting prospect face the 10th guy out of the bullpen in a Sunday game blowout. They want to see hitting prospects face pitching prospects as much as possible. Reducing roster sizes helps make that happen.
  As many have mentioned, this will have a trickle down effect. The game will (theoretically) get better at every level - meaning the bar to enter will be raised. It won’t impact the superstars. But it will make it more difficult for all the other players.

@Mechanized posted:

You got it exactly right.
That is exactly what happened. And yes he could stay and take classes on their dime but he would basically be hurting himself with the baseball side. I appreciate this board and all of the responses. I told my son if you are still playing any level of college baseball your the one of  luckiest kids around. Be greatful

If he participated in the fall it's possible that he could loose his redshirt status.

Just saying.....

@TPM posted:

If he participated in the fall it's possible that he could loose his redshirt status.

Just saying.....

From what I was told he still has 4 years of eligibility since he declined the red shirt and has left the school

@Mechanized posted:

From what I was told he still has 4 years of eligibility since he declined the red shirt and has left the school

I’m not aware of any situation where a player can lose a year of eligibility by participating in the fall. It’s my understanding that to lose a year of eligibility a player has to be listed on a NCAA or NJCAA spring roster AND appear in at least one official game in the spring season.

My son's travel organization had been developing a mini "pipeline" to a D1 mid-major. Multiple players committed to this school the past 2 years. Part of the summer travel itinerary had been a campus visit and workout for the rising juniors and seniors.

The mid-major coach told our travel coach not to come this year as they are moving away from bringing in freshmen and focusing on the portal.

The school currently has 5 2025 listed commits. The college is coming off their most successful season ever, so I don't believe the coach is anywhere near the hot seat.

Just another anecdote to display that none of the research of this programs past operating procedures would indicate of what they are doing NOW. I do appreciate the college coach's transparency. If the NCAA won't control it at least this coach is up front on what they are doing.

I’m going to restate from my earlier post: From my perspective there our only 2 reasons to play college baseball, possibly 3 if you count “Girls dig ballplayers”, but I think that falls into reason 1…

• To enhance the college experience.
• To become a professional baseball player.

If you’re not in option 2 bucket (if you’re not getting team inquires or P4 D1 attention, option 2 is unlikely), go where you can get the best education and get on the field and play!

My kid was a 2014, so my info is dated. However, I know several kids in that timeframe that were told by p4 teams - we have too many returning seniors, so go find a juco. I also know a non-scholarship kid that pitched a mid 3 ERA in the SEC but was cut loose because of incoming talent (a good kid, he was part of recruitment group during my kid’s visit – he caught on with another D1 and did well). I know a kid that committed to Alabama, they changed coaches and he had nowhere to go (connected last minute with Texas and became the starting catcher). These are just my personal experiences, so I guess my point is kids who are not top prospects have always been pawns in the college process.

I find that baseball dreams are hard to give up (hence me being on this board) or even modify for both players and parents. Good luck to everyone going through the process, it can be the best and worst of times but it’s a blessing to have the opportunity.

@adbono posted:

I’m not aware of any situation where a player can lose a year of eligibility by participating in the fall. It’s my understanding that to lose a year of eligibility a player has to be listed on a NCAA or NJCAA spring roster AND appear in at least one official game in the spring season.

It's possible especially if a player is not given a release.

I am in agreement with JucoDad.

I'd add another reason to play - if you want to work in baseball in some capacity other than as a player.

I'm so disillusioned with the NCAA, travel ball and recruiting.

I’ve been in this board since 2007. Has there been a year this statement hasn’t been posted?

Add: After going through the process with two kids I’ve always told people, “Don’t forget the TUMS.”

@DaddyBaller posted:

My son's travel organization had been developing a mini "pipeline" to a D1 mid-major. Multiple players committed to this school the past 2 years. Part of the summer travel itinerary had been a campus visit and workout for the rising juniors and seniors.

The mid-major coach told our travel coach not to come this year as they are moving away from bringing in freshmen and focusing on the portal.

The school currently has 5 2025 listed commits. The college is coming off their most successful season ever, so I don't believe the coach is anywhere near the hot seat.

Just another anecdote to display that none of the research of this programs past operating procedures would indicate of what they are doing NOW. I do appreciate the college coach's transparency. If the NCAA won't control it at least this coach is up front on what they are doing.

@DaddyBaller of course coaches will pivot, many have stated the recruiting strategy has changed to get older players:

Transfer Portal , JUCO then HS Players

Note the 2024 class is the transition class, those that publish their fall rosters will provide a sign for how the coach is changing based on the new rules.

New Hires will skew the results, because they will go heavy transfer portal and JUCO.

of the 221 teams that have posted fall rosters, 2004 out of 8000 are classified as freshman.

Spring of 2025 provides the Phase 1 cutover to the new model,   Phase 2 is the 34 man roster, again the question is "what will be the allowable roster size in the fall?.

Note, its understood this subject to change

The 2025 class is the eye of the storm.

Is information 100 percent exact, no and it never has been, but if know what to look for, you will have better insights on where some are going.

@RJM posted:

I'm so disillusioned with the NCAA, travel ball and recruiting.

I’ve been in this board since 2007. Has there been a year this statement hasn’t been posted?

Add: After going through the process with two kids I’ve always told people, “Don’t forget the TUMS.”

Good one.

People must be able to adapt to change, that is the one constant

I think change is fine, but I think the pendulum has swung to far in the other direction, we need to come back to the middle.

@JucoDad said, “I guess my point is that kids that are not top prospects have always been pawns in the college (baseball) process”

This is a fact - and the more competitive the program the more it applies. If everyone understood this before making a commitment we would all be better off.

@Dadof3 posted:

I think change is fine, but I think the pendulum has swung to far in the other direction, we need to come back to the middle.

It won't come back to the middle until coaches go back to developing talent instead of replacing  every year.  Unfortunetly lots of coaches have been forced to make adjustments they don't want or know how to make. Many aren't prepared to develop a competitive program.

@Dadof3 posted:

I think change is fine, but I think the pendulum has swung to far in the other direction, we need to come back to the middle.

Dad, looked at through baseball lenses and the uncertainties and vagueness created by the pending House settlement, you may be correct. The dichotomy is when we look at this through the lenses of revenue sports: football and basketball. In those, the pendulum is swung vastly in favor of the players! Assuming House is eventually approved, except at the top 20-30 revenue producing baseball programs (perhaps even less), one can expect the sports producing the revenue may well dilute $$$ from baseball at many many D1 programs.

To add to the uncertainty, a hearing is scheduled for 12/8 on the preliminary injunction requested by Vanderbilt’s QB to prevent the NCAA from limiting JC transfer athletes to 2 years of NCAA eligibility. If granted, every JC transfer and player would have 4 full years  of NCAA eligibility.
That hearing could yield a result devastating to the landscape of college baseball and recruiting when the portal is superimposed. If granted, it seems plausible that the recruiting of HS players would be nonexistent except for the elite players.

My oh my so much stuff to read in this thread and a lot of it is pure rubbish.

The roster limit in 2020 and prior (whenever it changed from the previous limit) was 35.

I don't care what kind of data has been collected. The limit of 35 was and is still a fact. Check any posted college roster. Out of which a maximum of 27 players could receive a portion of the 11.7 scholarships.

Since 2022 the roster limit has been 40. That was to accommodate all the 2020 extra year of eligibility players which was granted to everyone (regardless of class). So, if your freshman season would have been 2020 then you could have played through 2024 (barring redshirts and other factors). Why an extra year of 40 after 2024? The Ivy League didn't play in 2021 or 2022 and many D3's didn't play either.  Maybe not specifically for them but rather to give time for the bubble effect to clear out. Unfortunately this allowed teams with NO COVID-related eligible players to start filling their teams with freshman and other post-COVID transfer players. Going to a 34 limit will end up cutting a lot of these players regardless of whether that team overrecruits in the Fall. That's 6 players per team x the number of D1 teams that will be looking for a home in Fall of 2025. At least that's what was part of the settlement but has yet to be formally approved.

Is this fair? Or course it is; it's only 1 less than what it was prior to 2021. And now EVERY player on the roster will be bale to receive athletic money (of course that doesn't mean they will which is no different than 27 players receiving athletic money). I highly doubt any team, SEC, ACC, or otherwise will be giving 34 full-ride athletic scholarships starting in 2025. Will it happen in the future? Perhaps, but the settlement hasn't even been formally adopted yet and kids have signed NLI's this month!!!

About Fall rosters... Should NCAA put in verbiage stating a limit of 34? Hard to say. There was a 35 limit prior to 2021 and many schools had more than 35 in the Fall during those years. So why change? Not saying I agree with it but all those years prior to 2021 certainly set precedent.  And if the verbiage is added that restricts the Fall roster to 34 to include the Spring? Can coaches work with that? Of course they can, the Ivy League has been doing it for a very long time including the last 4 years! And if someone gets injured in the Fall? Better hope you have enough catchers and whatever else you would need to cover if a player is injured!

Redshirt is simply a term used to describe a player who didn't lose a year of eligibility just because they worked out with a team (practiced) but never participated. This has to be requested and verified by the NCAA. Medical redshirt (actually called medical hardship) is a bit different with it's own set of rules regarding what % of games played (prior to season halfway point not including post-season) and then no games after the halfway point. It also must be requested by the player and then approved by the NCAA. So if a coach tells a player he should redshirt before the season even starts there is certainly a high possibility he wants to kid to leave! And his athletic scholarship? Of course he can continue to attend the school and collect the $ but that counts against the 11.7 spread amongst 27 rule even if he's not on the roster. Of course he wants you to leave! Some players in this situation (especially at good academic schools) stick it to the team and just quit baseball--rare but it does happen. Especially if you were a player at a former academic P5 school and you signed a 4 year scholarship (remember that's just an agreement with conference members and not the NCAA--NCAA athletic money is year to year).

There was a recent court case brought against a HC who put a player in to pinch hit in the last game of the season so he would lose a year of eligibility. At least that's what was contested; I'm sure coach said he was just trying to win the game. The player suggested the coach did it in retaliation because the player reported discriminatory behavior by the coach. Not sure how the court case worked out but that player IS now playing another year. 2025 will be his 4th year at a different school so the NCAA must have sided with him. That well-known coach is no longer with the same school. He left and became an assistant and is now a HC elsewhere...

Easy way to check which schools over-recruit--they don't post Fall rosters. Some do post their Fall rosters even though they have more than the approved limit for the Spring. At least those coaches are transparent. The roster will be correct before the season starts--it's a guarantee! And some schools post their entire roster at the limit.

How about those poor coaches who don't have people to update those Fall rosters on the web page? Please! If a HC at an SEC school wants his Fall roster posted believe me it will happen!

Just start checking the transfer portal as we move into the holidays and all the way leading up to the first scheduled games. As different teams finalize their rosters (to 40) you will see those kids who you knew were committed to school A or B but never saw them on the Fall roster (because it was never published) post messages on social media thanking their coaches who overrecruited. To be fair, many players who get cut were not over-recruited; it just didn't work out for them. Of course their coach can pick someone out of the transfer portal to replace them over the holidays!

I concur that the situation for freshman is dramatically different than even just 3 years ago. Coaches who never cut are now changing the way they operate (making past data meaningless), and also it is definitely getting harder to find the field in D2/D3/Juco/NAIA due to the drop-downs. Yes, it will make the competitiveness better at all levels, but more players than ever are being told they should leave the schools they are at if they want to continue their dream. That is very difficult for academic-minded athletes since they've spent years preparing for academics as much as for baseball. Uprooting their college path after 1 semester does a tremendous disservice to the "student" part of being a student-athlete, and that is where the NCAA has faltered in its mission. They should have least phased all these changes over time so current players in the system could move through and future players know what the limitations are ahead of time.

@collegebaseballinsights... dude. Your name is RIGHT ON YOUR WEBSITE.

@Dadof3 posted:

I think change is fine, but I think the pendulum has swung to far in the other direction, we need to come back to the middle.

@Dadof3  what is your definition of "the middle".

Most decisions were are a result of SCOTUS rulings.

If you believe in free market principles then you want to have the ability to move, with no restrictions.

From  baseball perspective are they employees or contractors?

understand there is no clean answer

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

@collegebaseballinsights... dude. Your name is RIGHT ON YOUR WEBSITE.

@Dadbelly2023 it doesn't matter what is listed.   Was you given permission?

@Mechanized posted:

My sons little league Coach years ago said it best. Little League is the best baseball you’ll ever play because after this it’s all biusiness. He was right.

I hope this is untrue for most going through the process but I do think that parents can become bitter if their expectations go unrealized at any level.

I think applying those expectations to the athletes either intentionally or through behavior is a common mistake and it will often have a negative impact on both our and the athlete’s experience. It’s hard, but I believe supporting and enjoying them being the best version of themselves in the moment brings positive memories at each stage.

I’ve had the honor of watching my son fail and succeed at more levels than a father deserves and have enjoyed ride. The highs would be be nothing without the perseverance of the difficult times, nobody goes through this process without a degree of significant discomfort…

As for best baseball, for me it was juco. Why, because nothing about it was nice or easy, and they all still loved it! You can’t grind out juco and not love baseball.

@JucoDad posted:

I hope this is untrue for most going through the process but I do think that parents can become bitter if their expectations go unrealized at any level.

I think applying those expectations to the athletes either intentionally or through behavior is a common mistake and it will often have a negative impact on both our and the athlete’s experience. It’s hard, but I believe supporting and enjoying them being the best version of themselves in the moment brings positive memories at each stage.

I’ve had the honor of watching my son fail and succeed at more levels than a father deserves and have enjoyed ride. The highs would be be nothing without the perseverance of the difficult times, nobody goes through this process without a degree of significant discomfort…

As for best baseball, for me it was juco. Why, because nothing about it was nice or easy, and they all still loved it! You can’t grind out juco and not love baseball.

This post is spot on, as are most of the things said on here by @JucoDad - who is one of the members of this board that really sees the big picture.

@ABSORBER posted:

My oh my so much stuff to read in this thread and a lot of it is pure rubbish.

The roster limit in 2020 and prior (whenever it changed from the previous limit) was 35.

I don't care what kind of data has been collected. The limit of 35 was and is still a fact. Check any posted college roster. Out of which a maximum of 27 players could receive a portion of the 11.7 scholarships.

Since 2022 the roster limit has been 40. That was to accommodate all the 2020 extra year of eligibility players which was granted to everyone (regardless of class). So, if your freshman season would have been 2020 then you could have played through 2024 (barring redshirts and other factors). Why an extra year of 40 after 2024? The Ivy League didn't play in 2021 or 2022 and many D3's didn't play either.  Maybe not specifically for them but rather to give time for the bubble effect to clear out. Unfortunately this allowed teams with NO COVID-related eligible players to start filling their teams with freshman and other post-COVID transfer players. Going to a 34 limit will end up cutting a lot of these players regardless of whether that team overrecruits in the Fall. That's 6 players per team x the number of D1 teams that will be looking for a home in Fall of 2025. At least that's what was part of the settlement but has yet to be formally approved.

Is this fair? Or course it is; it's only 1 less than what it was prior to 2021. And now EVERY player on the roster will be bale to receive athletic money (of course that doesn't mean they will which is no different than 27 players receiving athletic money). I highly doubt any team, SEC, ACC, or otherwise will be giving 34 full-ride athletic scholarships starting in 2025. Will it happen in the future? Perhaps, but the settlement hasn't even been formally adopted yet and kids have signed NLI's this month!!!

About Fall rosters... Should NCAA put in verbiage stating a limit of 34? Hard to say. There was a 35 limit prior to 2021 and many schools had more than 35 in the Fall during those years. So why change? Not saying I agree with it but all those years prior to 2021 certainly set precedent.  And if the verbiage is added that restricts the Fall roster to 34 to include the Spring? Can coaches work with that? Of course they can, the Ivy League has been doing it for a very long time including the last 4 years! And if someone gets injured in the Fall? Better hope you have enough catchers and whatever else you would need to cover if a player is injured!

Redshirt is simply a term used to describe a player who didn't lose a year of eligibility just because they worked out with a team (practiced) but never participated. This has to be requested and verified by the NCAA. Medical redshirt (actually called medical hardship) is a bit different with it's own set of rules regarding what % of games played (prior to season halfway point not including post-season) and then no games after the halfway point. It also must be requested by the player and then approved by the NCAA. So if a coach tells a player he should redshirt before the season even starts there is certainly a high possibility he wants to kid to leave! And his athletic scholarship? Of course he can continue to attend the school and collect the $ but that counts against the 11.7 spread amongst 27 rule even if he's not on the roster. Of course he wants you to leave! Some players in this situation (especially at good academic schools) stick it to the team and just quit baseball--rare but it does happen. Especially if you were a player at a former academic P5 school and you signed a 4 year scholarship (remember that's just an agreement with conference members and not the NCAA--NCAA athletic money is year to year).

There was a recent court case brought against a HC who put a player in to pinch hit in the last game of the season so he would lose a year of eligibility. At least that's what was contested; I'm sure coach said he was just trying to win the game. The player suggested the coach did it in retaliation because the player reported discriminatory behavior by the coach. Not sure how the court case worked out but that player IS now playing another year. 2025 will be his 4th year at a different school so the NCAA must have sided with him. That well-known coach is no longer with the same school. He left and became an assistant and is now a HC elsewhere...

Easy way to check which schools over-recruit--they don't post Fall rosters. Some do post their Fall rosters even though they have more than the approved limit for the Spring. At least those coaches are transparent. The roster will be correct before the season starts--it's a guarantee! And some schools post their entire roster at the limit.

How about those poor coaches who don't have people to update those Fall rosters on the web page? Please! If a HC at an SEC school wants his Fall roster posted believe me it will happen!

Just start checking the transfer portal as we move into the holidays and all the way leading up to the first scheduled games. As different teams finalize their rosters (to 40) you will see those kids who you knew were committed to school A or B but never saw them on the Fall roster (because it was never published) post messages on social media thanking their coaches who overrecruited. To be fair, many players who get cut were not over-recruited; it just didn't work out for them. Of course their coach can pick someone out of the transfer portal to replace them over the holidays!

@ABSORBER What was the roster limit in 2020 vs what was recorded to the department of education (EADA) could be different as is the case with the following schools.

Here is a little secret, school will adjust website post season.

For example, in 2016 Coastal Carolina (CWS year) started with 35, by end of the year, they had 29.  They reported to the DOE 35.

Note, knew 2 of the players that weren't of the roster as of Aug, played against my son and other played at juco in 2017, as he had TJ surgery while at Coastal Carolina. The other 4 were MIA.

As colleges have migrated to Sidearm and Presto solutions the information has gotten better, but as @TPM has stated it all depends on the SID

Note, for the most part rosters are 95% accurate (for NCAA-D1), but how they manage roster players that become inactive will vary.  We've seen players with statistics deleted off the roster, thus creating data integrity issues.