Recruiting plan for high academic D3

This coming summer will be huge for recruiting the 2024 class.  Check out the Arizona Fall Classic https://azfallclassic.com

Your plan sounds good.  A key element for my 2021 who ended up at an HA D3 was sending out recruiting emails with video to the various schools he was interested in

You can quickly tell if you are fishing in the right pond based on the responses you get (come to our camp vs when is a good time for a coach to call you?)

The schools that were serious about my son started calling him on a regular basis, invited him to visit campus, and made it clear they would help him get through admissions especially if he applied early decision

He ended up applying early decision at the school that wanted him most, and was the best overall fit for him, and received a substantial academic scholarship

He never attended any of the camps you mentioned, but many many players have been successful going that route

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

. But it’s April and I have the sense from reading this site that it might still be early for high academic schools to be putting a lot of effort into recruiting the 2024 HS class

Teams are the middle of their season right now, trying to win their conference and/or qualify for the conference tournament, with hopes of making the NCAA tournament.  Not much recruiting at all happens in April, other than the top flight pitching recruits getting their weekly phone calls

This will change on a dime as soon as teams get eliminated from the postseason, which begins in early May.  Be ready, because everything accelerates with recruiting in May & June

Sounds like you have a good feel for the situation.  Yes, the Pacific Northwest is not a high target area for D3 HA schools, so you need to take the "show" on the road.   I do like @3and2Fastball's idea of checking out the AZ Classic.  I know quite a few people that have had recruiting success there, although my son never attended.

My son's travel and high school coaches didn't have relationships with D1 or D3 HA schools either.  That shouldn't deter you.   What matters is will they help you and support you if called upon.   College baseball recruiting is a puzzle.  You've got figure out the fit for you.  We spent considerable time and resources trying to find the best baseball program and then bolting on academic fit.  For us, this was the wrong approach.   We got far better results matching the academic fit and then bolting on the baseball.  So with that in mind, I think you need to discuss your son's academic metrics when considering HA schools as well.  It is usually the first question a recruiting coach will  ask in email/phone/in-person.   You've shared athletic/baseball metrics which is fine, but keep in mind you need academic metrics to get the coaches attention and then baseball metrics to keep his attention.   Some of these coaches have a very difficult job, and they have to recruit nationally to get the combination of academic/athletic skills that will make it through Admissions.  Making sure you have both covered makes their job easier.

JMO. 

Claremont Mudd Scripps has a history of recruiting in the PNW. Check their rosters.  Pomona Pitzer too, but not as heavily.   Same with other SCIAC schools that are not quite as HA.  Hopefully, they'll be represented at the events you mentioned.

Completely agree with Fenway, especially the part that travel coaches can contact college coaches even if they don't know them personally.  Sit down with your son's coaches now, explain what your son wants, and make a plan.  Ours had no idea what Headfirst was, but when we explained, they were supportive.

Where is his travel team playing?

If you are looking at very selective HA schools, their timeline is usually:  by the end of summer, have a list of top prospects and bring them on campus visits, leading to commitment to apply Early Decision by the end of October.  AZ Fall Classic is late on that timeline for a senior.  It's fine if you plan to apply Regular Decision at schools where your son will have no difficulty being admitted.

It's true that excellent metrics will attract longer looks at showcases.  Have him practice running the 60 on a football field to see what works for him, don't have him go into the showcases cold.  For a catcher, that metric may not matter - what's his pop time?  And, what is he doing on all those PAs that don't result in strikeouts?

https://community.hsbaseballwe...22#75784881013468922

This is one of the main things we've been wondering about. Very helpful.

@3and2Fastball posted:

Not much recruiting at all happens in April, other than the top flight pitching recruits getting their weekly phone calls

This will change on a dime as soon as teams get eliminated from the postseason, which begins in early May.  

This is one of the main things we've been wondering about. Very helpful.

@fenwaysouth posted:

I think you need to discuss your son's academic metrics when considering HA schools as well.  It is usually the first question a recruiting coach will  ask in email/phone/in-person.   

He leads with academics in his introductory email (3.95 unweighted / 1340 SAT). With so many schools being test optional these days, we've been wondering about whether he should provide his SAT score to the coaches. Current leaning is that he should. Presumably, if the score is a problem, the coach will either ask him to take it again or just tell him to apply without the test score. LMK if anyone disagrees with this.

@anotherparent posted:

Where is his travel team playing?

His travel team does actually travel that frequently or that far away. They were at a PG tournament in AZ in January. They're traveling to Spokane in July. But the vast majority of their games are in Western Washington. And I don't expect to see any of his prospective coaches on the bleachers.

@anotherparent posted:

- what's his pop time?  And, what is he doing on all those PAs that don't result in strikeouts?

He hasn't attended an event that officially records pop times. I asked Headfirst (he attended last year) for his pop time. They didn't have it but reached out to a coach that was there and reported back to me that it was in the range of 2.35 - 2.47. I have no idea how that compares to what a high academic D3 coach would typically have in a catcher.

I'm not sure how to answer that second question about the other 35 PAs:  C% = 90. BB = 7. HBP = 1. OPS = .881 (this is actually understated because the team's manager (high school kid) is new to scorekeeping and doesn't distinguish between sacrifice flies and flyouts). They're all flyouts to her.

@3and2Fastball posted:

The schools that were serious about my son started calling him on a regular basis, invited him to visit campus,

Would you mind sharing approximately how many schools your 2021 reached out to by email? Another thing I've been wondering about is how widespread the outreach should be in advance of the showcases that he is attending. Any recommendations for how many schools is too many or too few? Many thanks...

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

He leads with academics in his introductory email (3.95 unweighted / 1340 SAT). With so many schools being test optional these days, we've been wondering about whether he should provide his SAT score to the coaches. Current leaning is that he should. Presumably, if the score is a problem, the coach will either ask him to take it again or just tell him to apply without the test score. LMK if anyone disagrees with this.

Your perspective is right. Our son's coach asked for it prior to pre-read in summer before his senior year and ultimately told him that he didn't need to report it when applying ED1.  I don't know how far East your son would go, but there are a number of HA D3 schools in the midwest.  

Video and email will serve him well until this summer, and then a good performance at either Snowball, Headfirst, or both will do him some good.  Best of luck!  Our son's experience at D3 has been good and the quality of baseball has been better than we expected.  

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

Would you mind sharing approximately how many schools your 2021 reached out to by email? Another thing I've been wondering about is how widespread the outreach should be in advance of the showcases that he is attending. Any recommendations for how many schools is too many or too few? Many thanks...

My perspective, send out messages and video to as many programs as he's interested in attending plus some that are on the bubble.  You have to start out with a big pool before the coaches and you shrink it down.  

I would say that our son, conservatively, reached out to 30 HA programs to start.  Other posters have mentioned the time of year we're in, so be patient, contact should pick back up in June and real interest should begin this summer or early fall.  

JMO

Lots of good info here. FYI, test optional will not apply to recruited athletes at some of the top academic schools. A coach of a "test blind" school needed my son's SAT to get him through an admissions pre-read. He should absolutely provide that, IMO. He has a strong score that will get him in the door with most of the HA D3's. You can PM and I'll give you specifics on what some of the schools will be looking for.

Have you considered doing the Chicago Showball? It is early in the summer and will get him on radars sooner. This may give you a better idea of which camps/visits to spend money on. My son did the June SB and finished with the August SB. He was able to gain interest from all of his targets early, then updated them as the summer went on. He had a few who wanted to see him one more time in August if possible. The August SB resulted in a bunch of coaches inviting him to campus for a visit (not camps).

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've never heard a college coach say a kid has a good eye at the plate or good plate discipline. I would find other things to highlight in his messaging.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Have you considered doing the Chicago Showball?

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've never heard a college coach say a kid has a good eye at the plate or good plate discipline. I would find other things to highlight in his messaging.

Chicago would have been ideal, but he has a conflict with a school trip.

Interesting comment about plate discipline. I've been wondering how much emphasis to put on that. Why is plate discipline not a strong selling point? As my user name reveals, I didn't play ball and can't rely on my own experience here. The S2 Cognition ads on the D1 Baseball podcast would seem to suggest that it matters. But I really don't know.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've never heard a college coach say a kid has a good eye at the plate or good plate discipline.

My son started playing 17u the summer after soph year. The coaching staff repeatedly told him, “You have a great eye. Now start swinging the bat aggressively. You get to the next level by driving the ball hard.”

NOTBaseballGuy:

Have you considered the U of British Columbia? https://gothunderbirds.ca/spor...13/overview-baseball. Rated #35 in World Universities.

The Coach, Chris Pritchett is a former MLB, Goodwill Series, Area Code and UCLA player. A "short" commute on the ferry boat.

Bob

@RJM posted:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've never heard a college coach say a kid has a good eye at the plate or good plate discipline.

My son started playing 17u the summer after soph year. The coaching staff repeatedly told him, “You have a great eye. Now start swinging the bat aggressively. You get to the next level by driving the ball hard.”

My son's hitting coach was talking to a kid about a showcase he was about to attend and gave him this advice.

"spend the first round of hitting driving the ball consistently to right center, show them you can consistently barrel the ball, then next round every time you get something middle in- turn on it and show them you can hit with power. If you can't hit the ball consistently, how far you hit it doesn't much matter."

My experience now watching games in and around New England  (D3), it's 75% small ball focused and 25% big inning focus.  So hitting for average is still a very desirable thing, but there is no metric you can provide that a coach will pay attention to or trust that shows that.  As a catcher, he will have to be able to hit and show it.  Also, D3 coaches like flexibility and you will want your son to play other positions well, as there are typically 4-5 catchers on a D3 team, if he wants to play, he needs to hit and be able to get on the field somewhere else as well.

The reason hitting stats provided to a recruiting coach mean little to nothing to them is because he doesn't know the level of competition you face,  hitting .500 against kids who can't muster greater than 80mph vs a kid who hits .270 in the top high school league in the country are vastly different.  But exit velo is at least comparable, if not ignoring all the other important elements of hitting a ball.  A coach will know more about whether you can hit or not by your video.

@Consultant posted:

NOTBaseballGuy:

Have you considered the U of British Columbia?

Interesting. I did not know that Canadian universities played intercollegiate sports. Looks like they're mostly competing against US D1 and D2 schools. So, might be out of my kid's league. But we'll look into it.

Guy

Maybe you can watch a game and attend a class. Say hello to the Head Coach.

Bob Williams

@RJM posted:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've never heard a college coach say a kid has a good eye at the plate or good plate discipline.

My son started playing 17u the summer after soph year. The coaching staff repeatedly told him, “You have a great eye. Now start swinging the bat aggressively. You get to the next level by driving the ball hard.”

Can’t Walk your way into playing time at the College level, that is for sure.

But ability to hit is a prerequisite.  Most college coaches hate strikeouts, especially with men on base.  So a “good eye at the plate” speaks to potential plate discipline at the next level, even though you are 100% correct that it won’t help in recruiting

Yes, I know I am delving into somewhat random semantics and splitting hairs

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

Would you mind sharing approximately how many schools your 2021 reached out to by email? Another thing I've been wondering about is how widespread the outreach should be in advance of the showcases that he is attending. Any recommendations for how many schools is too many or too few? Many thanks...

I don’t remember.  Dozens most definitely

We found that when one school in a particular conference had interest, most of the rest in that conference did, as well

A red flag was when only one school in a conference had interest, and the rest only sent back camp invites and automated replies.  That told us that our son had a high probability of merely being a dorm filler guy

You need to know where you stand.  At my son’s D3 school, only 17 position players get Batting Practice in practices, and only 14 get BP before games.  You need to be one of those guys (fortunately my son has been, both Freshman and Sophomore years). The rest literally never get a single BP pitch to swing at.

Its important to understand there is a distinct hierarchy when it comes to D3.  Some conferences are way better than others.  I have no doubt that if my son had overreached to a school in a higher level conference than where he ended up, it would have been an even tougher road for him to even be on the travel squad, let alone be one of the guys who gets BP at practice.  (My son as a Soph hasn’t started a game yet, but had appeared in over half the games so far this season)

Your son is a Catcher, you need to do as much research as you can to figure out if a particular school will use him as a bullpen catcher, or will he be able to be one of the Top 3 catchers who actually get playing time.  Even being in the Top 4 as a Freshman is a good sign, especially if one or two of the top guys will have graduated by the time your son is a Soph

@3and2Fastball posted:

Your son is a Catcher, you need to do as much research as you can to figure out if a particular school will use him as a bullpen catcher, or will he be able to be one of the Top 3 catchers who actually get playing time.  Even being in the Top 4 as a Freshman is a good sign, especially if one or two of the top guys will have graduated by the time your son is a Soph

Is that a question to ask the coach during recruiting? Or is there a better way to try and figure that out?

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

Is that a question to ask the coach during recruiting? Or is there a better way to try and figure that out?

It’s a question your son should ask “coach, do you see me as a bullpen catcher or filler depth, or do you think I’ll have a real shot to be in the mix for playing time?”

Also you should do a ton of research looking at rosters.  See how many Catchers are on the roster and when they’ll graduate.  Also look at at how many JUCO players are on the roster.  After that take a close look at the statistics, see how many players are actually getting playing time.

In my sons conference the season is halfway over, several schools in the conference have 15 or 16 players with 20 at bats or more so far this year, some have only 8 players with 20 at bats or more.

Obviosly players are going to have primary positions. But, hit and you play somewhere.

I followed Vanderbilt closely when two friends/former teammates sons played there. A school like Vanderbilt is going to recruit some of the nest catchers in the country.

When my friend’s son was a freshman the right fielder was moved to catcher. He was eventually drafted as a catcher. One catcher played first, another played left field and another DH’ed. when the third baseman got injured another catcher played third.

It’s unusual a team would recruit four top catchers. But all four could pound the ball. It’s what playing in college is all about. It applies at every level.

Add: One of my friends sons was one of the catchers. He was all world in high school and on his 17u team. He was a top fifty prospect. He thought he would start freshman year. He was the fourth catcher who played third when the third baseman got injured. He started at various positions soph year. He split catching and DH the next two years. He was drafted.

Why isn't he likely to end up at a NWC school?

@MidAtlanticDad posted:

Why isn't he likely to end up at a NWC school?

I would love to be wrong about that statement because I'd get to see more of his games. But, in our initial list-building conversations, most of the schools that he's expressed interest in are east of the Mississippi. It's early though. Who knows...

Available majors, big piece of the search puzzle of course.  Son made a mid-course correction on major choice which affected the ultimate destination.

Headfirst showcase is where he was seen first.

On camps, I thought the Stanford camp provided the most bang for the buck.

He's in the NWC.

Sounds like a talk with your travel coaches might be beneficial; even if they don't know any of the eastern schools, they may have a sense about PNW D3 baseball and where your son is likely to fit.

A big question to think about is, what does your son want out of his college baseball experience?  Will he mind if he doesn't play much?  Has he been a varsity starter, and if so, for how long?  Would he mind being a bullpen catcher?  Some might find that fun.  D3 baseball is all over the map, with teams of 30 players to teams of 50+.

Is baseball going to drive the college search?  Is it just a useful way to differentiate between colleges that otherwise seem all the same?  Are you looking for it to help him get admitted?  All are valid, but each path is different.

@anotherparent posted:

Sounds like a talk with your travel coaches might be beneficial; even if they don't know any of the eastern schools, they may have a sense about PNW D3 baseball and where your son is likely to fit.

A big question to think about is, what does your son want out of his college baseball experience?  Will he mind if he doesn't play much?  Has he been a varsity starter, and if so, for how long?  Would he mind being a bullpen catcher?  Some might find that fun.  D3 baseball is all over the map, with teams of 30 players to teams of 50+.

Is baseball going to drive the college search?  Is it just a useful way to differentiate between colleges that otherwise seem all the same?  Are you looking for it to help him get admitted?  All are valid, but each path is different.

@NotABaseballGuy, this is exactly where I was headed. Use the local teams as comparables for other D3 programs. Ask the local experts if your son could get playing time at Whitworth right now. (Most kids don't improve dramatically from 17 to 19.) If so, he's in great shape for most D3 programs. If not, no worries, there are lots of northeast HA D3 schools that don't play at the level of NWC. Showball will probably be a great help in figuring that out, too. Have fun.

You might be able to find a regional showcase that might not be as big as SB but still has a lot of HA schools. PTW usually has a few.

Check your PM.

Thought about another thing re the “good eye at the plate” thing:

You learn pretty quickly that D3 umpires are extremely inconsistent.  Can’t leave an at bat in their hands if the pitch is anywhere close.  I’ve seen players rung up on pitches literally a foot off the plate

Hot take for a baseball blog - my new thinking for HA D3 posters is to apply to the best schools, D1, D2, or D3, with your son's major of preference, and then if the coach doesn't offer you a spot and you end up at D3, try to walk on or play club.  If your son doesn't know what major he wants,  go to a larger high academic school (likely D1) with many different majors, as mentioned by @dverespey above, and play club, join a frat, and live the college experience.   Don't force a fit for baseball; force the fit for academics and career, and then backfill the baseball side.  Most important thing is that you have a happy son who ends up with many career choices.

^^This. My son's not a HA, but we're prioritizing schools for academic fit, so if the school is a fit that might mean only trying to walk on or play club.

Have a son in HA D3 and the thing I’d advise most is to be very wide eyed about how challenging the process is and how high the level of student-athletes are. Post Covid especially as so much talent trickled down.  In certain ways, HA D3 is one of the most difficult spots to land on the whole recruiting continuum.  Because at D3 level, even unlike Ivies, the HC often can only go so far to push administration given there’s no scholarships in play.  

Given that. I’d suggest doing everything he can to maximize his athletic performance and testing before the Summer.  In normal land the SAT your son scored is amazing.  In HA D3 recruiting, it may require a bit more at *some* schools.  In HS plate discipline is important.  At a camp where coaches seen 800 kids a day, it’s impossible to judge. Numbers natter. Can the kid barrel a  ball consistently and if so, what’s his Exit Velo. To start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90’s for a C.  That pop time?  Work with a specialty coach for the next 3-4 months to bring that down. His 40 that some say don’t matter? It does. Bring it down.  Coaches prefer their C’s to be all around athletes.  Bottom line, and this is not meant to be discouraging, rather an inspiration, is to REALLY ready himself for the most competitive process of his young life. He has a few months to put himself in a position where he can stand out.  Assume the competition from a national talent pool will be deep and intense. Go in prepared and as fully maximized as he can be.  Don’t be intimidated but also don’t underestimate the significance of the challenge.  

For you as a parent, it’s a roller coaster that gets real intense from late summer through the Fall.  Be prepared for setbacks and disappointments to manage, but also  a North Star of victory knowing he’ll ultimately get there and land in a good spot.  Lean on the group throughout this process there is a LOT of collective knowledge here.  

@Wechson posted:

In HS plate discipline is important.  At a camp where coaches seen 800 kids a day, it’s impossible to judge. Numbers natter. Can the kid barrel a  ball consistently and if so, what’s his Exit Velo. To start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90’s for a C.  

More questions below related to exit velo:

Let me provide a little more info on this and get your thoughts on how exit velo is defined in this conversation. The data I have for him comes from last summer's Stanford camp cage sessions courtesy of Rapsodo. I'm sure many of you know how they run those cage sessions. I think he had five opportunities to hit BP while getting measured by Rapsodo. His fastest exit velo swing during those sessions was 99 mph. The second and third fastest were at 87 mph. The meat of the bell curve were between 75 mph and 85 mph. Keep in mind that this was summer after sophomore year. I think he's stronger now.

In any case, when you all talk about exit velo, I don't really know how you define that. Are you using the peak number (99 here) even if it seems like an outlier? Or are we not even talking about BP exit velo at all? For example, at Headfirst last summer, no one, to my knowledge, was measuring BP or live game exit velo. It was all measured from a T. Is T exit velo the relevant stat? I assume that T exit velo and BP exit velo would be different. If so, are we just taking the peak number no matter who much of an outlier it would seem to be?

The next time he's in a Rapsodo situation, should he not care about whiffing on a few pitches and just swing for the fences? He rarely whiffs on a live game pitch. Should he risk whiffing more to try and bring his exit velo up?

We didn't go to Showball last summer. How is exit velo measured at Showball? Is it from a T or is it BP or both?

Should we be going to a local PBR event to get an updated exit velo measurement? Or can we just wait until this summer's Showball and HF?

Finally, how many of you would agree with @Wechson that "to start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90's for a C"?

@Wechson posted:

In certain ways, HA D3 is one of the most difficult spots to land on the whole recruiting continuum.  Because at D3 level, even unlike Ivies, the HC often can only go so far to push administration given there’s no scholarships in play.  

In normal land the SAT your son scored is amazing.  In HA D3 recruiting, it may require a bit more at *some* schools.  

Were any of you with post-COVID college applicants told by a coach at an HA that the test score didn't matter? The reason I'm asking is because my daughter swims at an HA D3. She attended the same school as my son (an independent college prep school) and had about the same GPA but with a lower test score. When she contacted coaches, she never even mentioned her test score and the coaches didn't ask for it. She applied test optional RD and was admitted to a handful of HA schools. Unfortunately, she only had a roster spot at two of them and decided (without regret) to decline the offer at her favorite school for a school where she could swim. Did any of you have a similar test optional experience with your post-COVID baseball applicants?

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

More questions below related to exit velo:

Let me provide a little more info on this and get your thoughts on how exit velo is defined in this conversation. The data I have for him comes from last summer's Stanford camp cage sessions courtesy of Rapsodo. I'm sure many of you know how they run those cage sessions. I think he had five opportunities to hit BP while getting measured by Rapsodo. His fastest exit velo swing during those sessions was 99 mph. The second and third fastest were at 87 mph. The meat of the bell curve were between 75 mph and 85 mph. Keep in mind that this was summer after sophomore year. I think he's stronger now.

In any case, when you all talk about exit velo, I don't really know how you define that. Are you using the peak number (99 here) even if it seems like an outlier? Or are we not even talking about BP exit velo at all? For example, at Headfirst last summer, no one, to my knowledge, was measuring BP or live game exit velo. It was all measured from a T. Is T exit velo the relevant stat? I assume that T exit velo and BP exit velo would be different. If so, are we just taking the peak number no matter who much of an outlier it would seem to be?

The next time he's in a Rapsodo situation, should he not care about whiffing on a few pitches and just swing for the fences? He rarely whiffs on a live game pitch. Should he risk whiffing more to try and bring his exit velo up?

We didn't go to Showball last summer. How is exit velo measured at Showball? Is it from a T or is it BP or both?

Should we be going to a local PBR event to get an updated exit velo measurement? Or can we just wait until this summer's Showball and HF?

Finally, how many of you would agree with @Wechson that "to start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90's for a C"?

IMO, PBR has the best exit velo measurement since they do it on the field. HF exit velo is a joke. I watched kids take the most ridiculous swings. At one point they had an attendee holding the gun. Not sure how SB does it. My son felt he had a terrible BP round at SB but a few coaches (1 D1, 1 D2, and the rest D3) commented on his swing and approach and not to worry about the results in that setting. Also, hitting balls hard during the games is probably the most important. Hitting a ball hard against a good pitcher is even better.

One thing I'll mention on SB and HF, it is very hard to stand out as a position player/hitter. As a catcher, he needs to be -2.0 or have a cannon to 2B that impresses the coaches.

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but at the two SB events my son did last summer, every single D3 coach asked what his SAT score was. The Patriot League coaches asked about it in later conversations, but they still asked. Some of these HA D3 schools are among the most competitive schools to get into. Admissions isn't going to give a coach a slot for a kid well below their average admitted students or one who they feel will not be able to handle the academic rigor of the school.