enough advice...thanks...

Tough situation.   I would imagine that the administration probably already knows about the guy.  Surely some other people have spoken to him in the past.   Maybe they don't care.

You could look to layout a case against the guy with the AD by noting the number of people who've left over the years, and asking, "Does the school really have this many 'problem' players?"  I would add, "Sir, don't you think that we are a pretty normal high school as far as kids are concerned?  I see no other high school baseball teams with 5 or more players quitting each year during the season.  Heck, I don't see large numbers of players quitting football, or basketball or soccer, cheer or any other team during the middle of the season, as we have most every year.  Perhaps the issue is not the players but the leadership."  You might add in your experience in leadership.  Add the story of Washington providing leadership https://betterlifecoachingblog...ry-about-leadership/ and note that good leaders are in front leading by example.  Not berating from behind.

Most of all, I would look to move out of the school, if possible.   Do you have a relative in another town that he can move in with?  Can you manage a move?

As far as just playing travel ball.  I don't think that is your best option.  College coaches still expect their prospects to have played high school ball.   Trying to explain to them that your kid quit because the coach is a jerk is not going to work well.  It comes off as not taking coaching and criticism well.  Remember; they most likely won't know anything about the coach in question.  They are only hearing that your son quit the team.

Best to you.  I hope that things work out well.

Details aside, this won't be the last time your son has to deal with an ass for a coach, boss, professor, etc.

You should equip him with how to deal with these people rather than having to do it for him. It's a valuable lesson.

I can sympathize with the coaching situation.  My son's school brought in a new coach that was so toxic that players who would have made up the entire starting lineup this season transferred out or quit over the past 2 years. The administration didn't care.  It took the coach's behavior ending up in the local news for anything to be done about it.

Oh yea - it's not OUR game, it's HIS game.

I have a 2020, so I am in your mindset right now, and I read every word you wrote here. 

Here is what I don't get:

1. You said "The coach literally excised him from the team and humiliated him"...what did you mean by that? Did he walk him off and yell at him...is that what happened?

2. What did you mean by this "sent us a very surprising email; totally trashing my son".  What were the adjectives used? 

3. I am not understanding how the head coach, assistant coach, and senior assistant coach all were on your son at once. Did all three approach him at the same time?

I'm trying to understand what all happened, but while you gave a lot of background on your son and the past coaching antics you didn't give a lot of information on what happened after the confrontation, and why your son feels like he wants nothing to do with this team/coach. 

No matter how much of an A-hole the coach may be, there seems to be a disconnect or parts missing to the story.  The coach or coaches took the time to put a letter together for you.  That is not consistent with a knee-jerk spur-of-the-moment over-reaction.  If you don't mind, what was the basic premise of the letter?  Could there be any substance to any of it?  Might your son have said something that was mis-interpreted?  If the HC is historically the problem, then why did two other coaches react toward your son so negatively before it even got to the HC?  You commented that your son was a teenager and wasn't perfect.  I'm trying to read between the lines and maybe get some of the other side of the story.

How did the meeting come about and who initiated it?  What is the objective?  Why would a coach who doesn't want the kid around the HS team be OK with him being present at the academy?

You, your son and his buddies could be totally right and the whole thing is because there is a bad coach and/or staff in place.  But there could be something else underneath this that could be an eye-opening learning opportunity for everyone.  I would suggest going to that meeting prepared with your position but with an open mind and lots of exploratory questions.

Over the years, we have had many kids leave our program.  Most partings have been very amicable.  Some have not.  Of those where the player and/or parent thought they were being wronged, a very high percentage moved on, only to find themselves in a situation where they "were being screwed again" by the next coach with the next team, in the next sport or in the next town.  So, to be frank, there was a common denominator on their side that they were not willing to see.  I am not saying this is your situation.  I'm only trying to help make sure you are open to finding out.

We will be anxious to hear how the meeting goes.  Best of luck.

BTW, to answer one of your questions - HS ball is not an absolute requirement for pursuing the game at higher levels.  

Sounds like this situation is ugly. yuck. Do you have any other options for his playing high school baseball?? Private school vs public school etc....

Life is short, baseball is a great sport. Why would anyone  let their kid play when it wasnt fun. He is a Freshman?? He still has another four years to play high school baseball. No reason to let these guys ruin the sport for him. I have seen kids get so abused by a coach that they quit the sport. 

As an advocate for YOUR son you have the obligation to do what is best for him at all times. IF this was a lesson that he needed to learn here, then I would leave it up to you to decide that. My son is growing into a man but not yet a man and as such needs to be developed but also needs to be protected against certain people or events that could do more harm than good. Decide if this is one of those times......I dont know the whole story and would refuse to give you any other advice than this. 

First a baseball thing. 4.2 to first and an 8.3 60 don't mesh. One is major league speed. One is snail slow. I completely question the person doing the timing. 

I'm betting the story isn't exactly as your son told you. More than one coach is upset with him. There isn't a conspiracy to get him. Your son has to suck it up and talk with the coaching staff about what they perceive he did wrong. 

My son was a varsity starter soph year of high school. When the bus stopped for a game the coach made a public announcement regarding my son that completely caught him off guard and humiliated him in front of the entire program. My son's response? I may never get to tell the coach. But I'll show him he's wrong. That's how these situations should be dealt with. 

Its normal to want to know the situation about the varsity as your son approaches the opportunity. But you can't just buy into every negative point you're told. You have to completely understand the circumstances before being able to access the claims. Whatever you do don't poison your son's mind with other people's opinions.

As the father of an 8th grader I don't recommend starting a coup against the coaching staff. Leave that to the upperclassmen varsity. You don't want to kill your son's chances before he has the opportunity to make varsity.

Sometimes coaches have difficult personalities. If they're breaking the rules and running off players the Board, Superintendent and AD notice. I don't believe for a second a coach threatened to hit your son with a clipboard unless he was smiling and joking about it. Otherwise it's assault. He could lose his job.

My son played high school for a coach where kids quit baseball because of the coach. The parents publicly complained about the coach. It was obvious to me the coach could be difficult at times. But it was nothing to quit over according to my son. Every kid who quit was questionable to start. They had to blame someone over their lack of ability. Why not the coach who snapped at them a few times? 

Let your kid work it out! Pertaining to HS athletics, your job is done.

There was a kid at our high school who left after soph year because the coach screwed him. He went to a Catholic private and got screwed there. He returned to the high school,and got screwed again. This time my son was a junior. He said the kid grossly overrates his ability. I can say the same thing about the dad. 

 According to the dad big time programs disocovered his son at showcases. But they ultimately backed off and screwed him. The kid headed for a JuCo first year of college and got screwed. He transferred to another JuCo. Junior year he didn't make the spring roster at a ranked D2. Guess why he didn't make it?

There was some talent there. The kid threw mid 80's. But he was uncoachable. He listened to his dad telling him not to listen to his coaches. Only listen to his private  instructors. Picture a high school and college coach being told off by a player he's wrong. I doubt every coach the kid ever had was wrong.

RJM we actually had the same thought on this. The 4.2 and 8.3 stuck out like a sore thumb to me as well.  Maybe a typo but when I see that everything after it gets called into question. there do seem to be major pieces missing. Makes it hard to make any fair comment. 

Q: What's the difference between a coach who is challenging versus one who is an arse?

A: it depends whether you ask a starter's parent or a bench, cut, or quit kid's parent.

Major league fast as a 5'5" 8th grader? Does he bat left or right? What's his 60 time?

1. My son is pretty good pitcher and wants to mature his skills. Does he need high school ball for this? Or will Travel/Showcase suffice for recruiters?

My son is playing JC baseball after being cut Junior year of HS by a coach not too different from yours. Never played Varsity. May be a longer, harder road but it's possible. Can your kid still play 14U next spring? A little young but maybe look into spring leagues for red-shirted JC players.

Mchlwlsh posted:

2020dad posted:

...4.2 and 8.3 stuck out like a sore thumb to me as well.  Maybe a typo but when ... 

Sorry, it was a typo. Actually, 4.24 home to first, he is a fast little guy.

The 4.2 and 8.3 are not in sync. That time to first equates to mid 6's+ in 60, not low 8's.

Your situation requires further investigation as to what was said by all parties: perhaps a quiet conversation with one of the assistants, away from the field and in a neutral, non-confrontational setting.

Quotes from the 'trashing' email may help us understand the situation better.

Quite honestly none of your son's friends  etc are ever going to say something bad about your son, their reaction is not necessarily the best information to rely on.  Same for previous coaches.  I would also not initiate conversations with your son's friends or former coaches regarding the situation nor would I send them copies of the e-mails.  That's just asking for more trouble when one of those people mentions it to the coach or some other friend who does the same. 

If the coach sent me an email about my son's attitude etc. I would have told the coach he should talk directly to my son, not me.  Maybe you can still move the discussion in that direction as the more involved you are with the coaches, the bigger the problem.  Try to stay on the sidelines, it might not be the most satisfying approach in the short term, but it will work in the long run.

Don't know the coaches involved but some will challenge players as a way help them develop or to see what they are made of.  Yes, some coaches are just jerks, even at the professional level, however they can hold you back if you don't learn how to deal with them.

Finally, a  lot of rising to the next level is overcoming..... physically and mentally.  Mentally one must be able use "bad times" to your advantage, learn to cope and overcome, this doesn't always mean rolling over.  Let him deal with it directly with the coaches, you can advise him before and after the meetings. 

Good luck.

Okay, you didn't answer my questions so I will just say that I don't understand why YOU are having a meeting at the school or with the coach.  I also don't understand why the coach would email YOU about your sons behavior.  You know how I can tell my son is pissing off the coach, when he is sitting on the bench for an entire game.  There are no emails or heart to hearts...my son either has to take care of HIS business with the coach or he doesn't get to play.

Is HS necessary for a college baseball opportunity, no.  It isn't necessary, and if the coach has as bad of a rep as you say the college coaches know it and won't hold it against your kid.  Now, if the coach is known for being a hard a$$ and being hard on anyone that comes off as a punk, and your kid didn't make it in the program, that will also tell the college coach everything he needs to know.

If the email said your kid had an attitude then he likely did, why am I so sure, because I have a 14 year old 9th grader who says WAY more with his body than his mouth.  It's almost a prerequisite for being 14.

here is an uneducated opinion based on the facts I skimmed, I assume they are not 100% complete and probably only somewhat accurate...

Will it hurt to not play school, maybe some but maybe not, it won't be a deal breaker if he is a good kid and good player. Should there be some other resolution outside of a freshman walking off and quitting the team? absolutely.

Mchlwlsh posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Okay, you didn't answer my questions so I will just say that I don't understand why YOU are having a meeting at the school or with the coach.  I also don't understand why the coach would email YOU about your sons behavior.  You know how I can tell my son is pissing off the coach, when he is sitting on the bench for an entire game.  There are no emails or heart to hearts...my son either has to take care of HIS business with the coach or he doesn't get to play.

Is HS necessary for a college baseball opportunity, no.  It isn't necessary, and if the coach has as bad of a rep as you say the college coaches know it and won't hold it against your kid.  Now, if the coach is known for being a hard a$$ and being hard on anyone that comes off as a punk, and your kid didn't make it in the program, that will also tell the college coach everything he needs to know.

If the email said your kid had an attitude then he likely did, why am I so sure, because I have a 14 year old 9th grader who says WAY more with his body than his mouth.  It's almost a prerequisite for being 14.

Sorry, at work...

thats what I dont understand either, he just got done pitching three innings...why would why did he email me. yeah, I dont get it either, something isn't making sense. 

Was my son a butthead...probably, but the coach put it as if this attitude was an absolute, that if my son was turd all the time...there is a major disconnect when I know they chose him to play this fall.

As part of my original post, I was glad he made it through a year of what was a tough program...but to tell a kid to leave the game, after he just pitched well, coming off an injury, the first game/scrimmage since May? something is not making sense and because the coach has a history, that has put us onto defense when the coach asked us 

Is there a chance it went down like this:

Assistant coach is the only one keeping track of who is injured and who isn't and he was off when your kid started pitching.  After the third inning of your kid was pitching he walked out, saw who was on the mound and then told the other coaches "we have a problem".  At that point he called your kid over and said "Are you even allowed to be running yet?" Meaning....aren't you still hurt kid?  Your kid responds with a cocky singsong answer “my doctor said that I can't sprint to my fullest yet.” The Assistant snapped, “that's not what I asked you.”...wouldn't it make more sense in this scenario of WHY the assistant snapped, why the senior assistant told him to just go home, and why the head coach jokingly said he was going to hit him with a clip board?   Then you got an email about how cocky your kid is and did it possibly mention that he isn't taking his health seriously?

Pitching is one of the hardest activities you can do to your legs....I'm not a doctor but I would guess repetitive slamming of your legs downhill on a mound isn't something that should be tried unless you ARE fully recovered and can sprint and jog. And maybe it's possible that your kid has been told before about watching his health but he's ignoring the coaches and coming off as a cocky know it all who made the team in 8th grade so you know, he's already hot stuff and knows it all.

Just guessing

Just as you obtain information on the HS coach, he too gets information, sometimes years in advance of a player heading his way. So, forming an opinion before one gets the opportunity to prove what they're about is a two way street.

You don't have to like the coach or his program, but you do have to respect it.

Your player needs to work this out on his own and simply get to an understanding with the coach. Learn what it means to be humble and work his tail off getting better. That is how you prove a point.

Coaches love talented kids that do not bring baggage and contribute to the team. It's a very simple proposition. If he looks to a program like UVA.......go take in a practice, O'Connor is a very demanding coach. That's why he's successful.