Anyone know anything about the ShowBall Showcase?

I got an invite too. There are a couple of schools that I am interested in that are attending.

My son received an invite as well. I assumed it was due to his participation in Perfect Game events in the past.

my son also received an invite but he did not go to Perfect Game. I was wondering how they got his name. He did attend a camp run by some pro scouts and a showcase...but not sure if that's where it came from or not. Saw that it is $595 for the two-day showcase. Same weekend as Perfect Game showcase in Lexington.

Does anyone know if the schools that are listed will actually show up. 32 D1 schools is a big claim to make. It just doesn't seem likely to me that they would all show up.

I have never heard of them either, that's why I asked about this. I have gone to KC Royals and Phillies MLB tryouts, also went to the camp in Louisville, perhaps one of those is where they got my name from I just don't know.
For me, $595 is a huge amount of money and most of what I have to spend on camps this summer and this is an important summer for me as I am a 2012. For that kind of money, would I be better off going to a PG showcase, or attend several college camps here in the midwest instead?

I don't know anything about it either. It looks like quite a few colleges will be there, but with the cost of the event plus travel costs, it could be very expensive. To me, if there are certain colleges that you are looking at, I would go to their camps. My son has not even been seen in a game yet, but went to a camp at a D1 school that has already offered a scholarship. He is also a 2012 pitcher.

2013 received the same letter. Has not attended a PG event but has done the PBR in Illinois, a few college camps and has a BeRecruited site.

We, too, were suspicious of the claims of those schools "committed to attending."

My son went to the florida event last year(I think it was in St, Pete).
Yes, I do believe all the schools listed did indeed send a coach or
at least a team rep to wear the schools hat and or uniform. That being said,
only a handful were really doing any coaching. A number of coaches didn't
even want to interact with players. During the two day event, they put
the players through the typical showcase workout.All players were assigned
to a coach / team for the simulated games.This would be the coach who
gives you your written evaluation at camps end. Even if he didn't see all of your workout.It was a very generic evaluation at best. Son's eval was better than most that I saw,but who really knows ?
Unfortunatly we had to deal with a lot of rain, so the whole event was very disorganized. May explain my bitterness, and why I wouldn't recommend anyone
spend the time or money.
Just my 2cents

quote:

Originally posted by DLOCK15:
Does anyone know if the schools that are listed will actually show up. 32 D1 schools is a big claim to make. It just doesn't seem likely to me that they would all show up.

They do mass mailings, so your name and address/email is out there somewhere. Anyone who pays plays, so it is not an invite in the sense of skill equating to a selective invitation only event.

My son attended last summers event in the same location with roughly the same number of coaches promised. To the events credit they did have all or most of the promised schools in attendance.

HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.

They will give a written evaluation which is done by one of the coaches who's school is listed. If your son performs well and is seen by one of the schools you are interested in, it might work out. Keep in mind that multiple games are going at once, so not every kid is seen by every coach.

To me, the Perfect Game events are the best on several levels. I'd put the Showball and Top 96 events somewhere in the middle based on my experiences last year.

quote:

Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.

You know Vector, I don't think you and I are going to be mailing birthday cards.
Can you quantify "nobody" in terms of a volunteer assistant in your vast experience?
Are you sure the showcase was staffed by volunteer assistants who were evaluating showcase attendees?
Wouldn't that be an NCAA violation per By-Law 11.01.5(a)?
Yes, you guessed it.
Our son is a "nobody" by your description.
Wonder why he is entrusted with coaching outfielders, coaching 1B during games, earned the title of "hitting coach" after his first Fall, is asked to scout the other team during BP to provide input to the pitching coach, works to get kids placed in Summer leagues, shows up 2 hours early for practice for "early work" with hitters and stays sometimes 2 hours and longer after and on days off.
Nope, I don't believe we will be sharing anything from Hallmark!

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

You know Vector, I don't think you and I are going to be mailing birthday cards.
Can you quantify "nobody" in terms of a volunteer assistant in your vast experience?
Are you sure the showcase was staffed by volunteer assistants who were evaluating showcase attendees?
Wouldn't that be an NCAA violation per By-Law 11.01.5(a)?
Yes, you guessed it.
Our son is a "nobody" by your description.
Wonder why he is entrusted with coaching outfielders, coaching 1B during games, earned the title of "hitting coach" after his first Fall, is asked to scout the other team during BP to provide input to the pitching coach, works to get kids placed in Summer leagues, shows up 2 hours early for practice for "early work" with hitters and stays sometimes 2 hours and longer after and on days off.
Nope, I don't believe we will be sharing anything from Hallmark!

Yes you and I do seem to be at odds over several subjects, but that might be due to you taking things too personally. Then again we might just have different perspectives.

My experience as it relates to the aforementioned is first hand knowledge since I know the staff in question. When I mentioned to the recruiting coordinator(assistant coach) why a particular "coach" was attending the event, he said it was just a way for him to get some experience. Technically he was nothing more than a first year team manager(you know what that means), but was given the title volunteer coach.
The trouble with you seems to be a willingness to look for areas of possible contention and then run with it. No slight of your son was intended since I do not know anything about him.

I also said coaches with experience and substance did attend some of these events as well. That may be a description of your son, but rather than choose to see the glass half full, you decided to see it as half empty.

Furthermore, not all volunteer coaches are low on the totem pole. Heck I know one of the most knowledgeable coaches in the country that agreed to take a pay cut and is now a volunteer. Yet he is one of the guys you hope shows up because if he likes you, you are in.

So rather than try to personalize things and look for areas of disagreement between us, just be a little less jaded when reading my posts. I do not harbor any ill will toward you and hope you feel the same.

Vector,

This, amongst other items, is what you posted:

"Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole."

Well, it might not just be different perspectives, it might be different experiences leading to a fund of knowledge about college baseball.
Now if you had posted, as you now attempt to clarify, that the volunteer assistant actually was a team manager and was just along for the ride and to observe/get experience, and apparently there was only one, that surely would have been wonderful. Of course if it was only one program at this showcase with a team manager "posed" as a volunteer assistant, standing by the recruiting coordinator, I am hard pressed to figure out why you posted what you you did. "Some" are nothing more than nobody volunteer assistants is meant to communicate there was one team manager with a recruiting coordinator?
Hmmmm

I would propose any reasonable reading of your post didn't say that.
Your words and attitude speak for themselves.

Oh well..surely that is me taking things too personally.

quote:

Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole.

Vector, you just can't go around saying stuff like this as a general statement. Perhaps you didn't mean the way it sounds?

My son's (2) pitching coaches throughout his time at Stanford were both 'volunteers.' And they were FANTASTIC! There is no way I would have ever thought to categorize them as 'low on the totem pole.' And I do believe that through their own camps that these coaches had a say in who was recruited and who was not. I could(?) be wrong about that, but I doubt it.

If I think about who the volunteer at Stanford is now, he's a young guy who no doubt is trying to climb into the coaching profession on a paid basis. This is just the way it works sometimes. I think you will often find that the players on a team are most connected to the volunteer coach...usually younger and easier to connect with.

As I think back about college baseball, two of the very unfair things about the way the game has been structured by the NCAA are the low scholarship numbers and unpaid, "volunteer" assistants.

So if it was one in question does that mean that there was just ONE volunteer coach or there were many?

You know something funny, the volunteer coach at CU when son was there is now the head recruiting coach for them.

That's what being a nobody can do for ya!

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

Your words and attitude speak for themselves.

Oh well..surely that is me taking things too personally.

It clearly is, but you seem unwilling or unable to see the forest for the trees. You have an issue when it comes to me, and have decided to try and find things to argue about. If you had simply said that I painted with too wide a brush, or my generalization was not fair, that would have been fine. Instead you start with the X-mas card thing alluding to the recent past. I have seen other posters essentially same the same thing, and for some reason you do not pounce on them for it. I know of more than just this one incident I specifically mentioned for your benefit, and apparently others here have as well.
I do not need you to analyze every specific comment I make and then try to dissect it for the purpose of being argumentative with me.
I do not expect this behavior will continue on your part, unless you are seriously lacking in maturity. As I recall the last thread we disagreed about Title IX and you had to get the last word at the expense of repeating the same thing over and over again. It essentially took me to say lets move on, and you still felt compelled to throw in another snide comment. Maybe you are just argumentative by nature?

Regardless, I know there are some of these events that either do not have decision makers showing up, or in some cases do not send anyone at all. To deny it ever happens would be foolish on your part.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:

Perhaps you didn't mean the way it sounds?

If what I wrote comes across as impugning all volunteer coaches, then that was not my intention. As I clarified in my followup to infielddad, I know of volunteer coaches who have more gravitas than the head coaches. So my comment was not a blanket generalization, rather an observation in certain circumstances. Others here have said as much regarding some of these events where just because someone is wearing *** Univ Baseball cap or shirt, does not mean they are decision makers.

So my point is that some of these events are attended by "coaches" who have no authority when it comes to deciding who will be a recruit. Sure if they come across a LHP throwing 96 then the head and/or assistant coach will pursue that kid because it is a no brainer.

As to the overall work and hours volunteer assistant coaches put it, I have nothing but respect and admiration for what they do. Just because someone has not risen to a higher status within the coaching staff does not reflect on the positive contributions they provide to the program. Everyone has to start somewhere, and in many instances their hard work pays off as they move up the ladder. My hat is off to them because they are the unsung heroes of many a program. Sadly when the head coach gets released, the staff gets the axe as well through no fault of their own.

Vector,
Very interesting response.
Let's see, this thread started with a group of folks(several) asking about attending the ShowBall Showcase.
Your post says your son attended last Summer.
I assume everyone posting and asking before you would trust your personal experience
Your post then includes this huge "HOWEVER" and goes on to describe that anyone attending should be wary, based on your experience, of the following:
"HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer."

.
I have never been to a ShowBall Showcase, as you and your son have.
However, I do know that the NCAA precludes Volunteer Assistants from attending functions such as this to recruit or perform talent assessments.
Logically, your claims that "SOME" of the coaches who attend are volunteer assistants raised questions, to me, as to the validity of your disclaimers and cautions you provided for the readers of this site.
Not only would the prior posters be expected to consider and potentially rely on your comments based on you and your son's personal experience, ShowBall Showcase, whoever they might be, could be impacted by the discussion and your relating of an experience which might cause others to think twice about the "value" of exposure to a Camp, including some number out of 30 coaches who are "volunteers," or are "nobodies" and cannot make any decisions.
From what I can tell from your words, since I cannot read your mind, the truth of your experience was one "manager" at the ShowBall Showcase, which you readily knew when you posted the " However."
Additionally, you represent to have solid relationships with other volunteer assistants who attend showcases and evaluate talent, all in possible violation of the NCAA by law posted previously.
How can volunteers attend showcases to evaluate talent in light of the NCAA prohibitions?
Hopefully, even though you might not like it, dissecting the words which get posted can be helpful for those who are reading and trying to make a judgment on whether the "HOWEVER" in a post like yours is one which is valid.
Hopefully the folks who asked in this thread and those with ShowBall Showcase will be better informed by this discussion surrounding your post of your personal experience and personal knowledge of the coaches who attend, evaluate talent and recruit from this showcase.
Our son won't be attending any showcases to get "exposure" like those asking in this thread are seeking.
I wonder why you would choose to lead those seeking important information for themselves or sons along the pathway you did with everything you posted after However.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
Vector,
Very interesting response.
Let's see, this thread started with a group of folks(several) asking about attending the ShowBall Showcase.
Your post says your son attended last Summer.
I assume everyone posting and asking before you would trust your personal experience
Your post then includes this huge "HOWEVER" and goes on to describe that anyone attending should be wary, based on your experience, of the following:
"HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer."

.
I have never been to a ShowBall Showcase, as you and your son have.
However, I do know that the NCAA precludes Volunteer Assistants from attending functions such as this to recruit or perform talent assessments.
Logically, your claims of that "SOME" of the coaches who attend are volunteer assistants raised questions, to me, as to the validity of your disclaimers and cautions you provided for the readers of this site.
Not only would the prior posters be expected to consider and potentially rely on your comments based on you and your son's personal experience, ShowBall Showcase, whoever they might be, could be impacted by the discussion and your relating of an experience which might cause others to think twice about the "value" of exposure to a Camp, including some number out of 30 coaches who are "volunteers," or are "nobodies" and cannot make any decisions.
From what I can tell from your words, since I cannot read your mind, the truth of your experience was one "manager" at the ShowBall Showcase, which you readily knew when you posted the " However."
Additionally, you represent to have solid relationships with other volunteer assistants who attend showcases and evaluate talent, all in possible violation of the NCAA by law posted previously.
How can volunteers attend showcases to evaluate talent in light of the NCAA prohibitions?
Hopefully, even though you might not like it, dissecting the words which get posted can be helpful for those who are reading and trying to make a judgment on whether the "HOWEVER" in a post like yours is one which is valid.
Hopefully the folks who asked in this thread and those with ShowBall Showcase will be better informed by this discussion surrounding your post of your personal experience and personal knowledge of the coaches who attend, evaluate talent and recruit from this showcase.
Our son won't be attending any showcases to get "exposure" like those asking in this thread are seeking.
I wonder why you would choose to lead those seeking important information for themselves or sons along the pathway you did with everything you posted after However.

Well I just got word from someone about you that explains your apparent love to argue. They said this is not uncommon for you, especially since you are supposedly a lawyer. That at least explains part of why you act the way you do(like that generalization that many would agree with)?

I have noticed that you have no regard for the thread when getting into these tit for tat debates with me. If you choose to disagree with me fine, but lets not have you do this in every thread you object to my comments. Presumably we are both trying to help out fellow posters, so they can read our divergent points of view and decide for themselves without having to read through all the other stuff you like to post. I tend to be guilty as well replying back to your posts, so I will try to do better.

As to the rules violation issue, don't assume you understand every factor is this discussion, because clearly you do not. Some coaches are coming under the designation of Baseball Instructional Clinics, not recruitment events. In reality everyone knows that these coaches are not going to ignore talent if they see it just because they are there to "primarily instruct" rather than recruit.
While I am not sure about the rules as it relates to volunteer coaches, many of these "events" are considered instructional in nature, therefore they supposedly skirt NCAA issues(or so I've been told). So if it is an instructional camp which also has XYZ schools attending, maybe that is why it goes on.

(I want to make it clear that I am not singling out Showball because this experience has also occurred at other events. Furthermore the Showball event was decent and well run. While I still prefer Perfect Game events, Showball does have value in my view.)

Furthermore, some coaches are called assistants without the volunteer label, but again they may very well be on the bottom of the food chain in regards to deciding on who is to be recruited. The title "Undergraduate Assistant Coach" is used, and I know of several who do not get paid. So are they volunteers even though that is not in their title?
I have seen coaching staffs that have specific coaches designated as the lead recruiting coordinator, assistant recruiting coordinator, etc., and then the guy on the bottom of the list has no such responsibility, yet is the one coming to the camp/showcase.
Heck if the event says XYZ college is coming, and they send a manager, who is going to know the difference unless they do the research? Are some of these events likely to say two of the 30 colleges could not send a coach, but since the towel boy from XYZ is coming, we are covered? Of course not, but do not assume it does not happen.
At an event(not Showball) last summer a listed coach was fired weeks before hand, but there was a guy who showed up representing the school. Sure enough he turned out to be a "Baseball Operations Coordinator". Was that a violation of the NCAA rules? I don't know nor care, but he certainly was not a person who made recruitment decisions. Another event was suppose to only have head coaches, but the coach from the listed school was gone(quit or fired, I'm not sure which)and the "new head coach" showed up instead. Sure enough he turned out not to be the new head coach, but he was touted as such.

The bottom line and my primary point in all this is, buyer beware. If you have a problem with that so be it, we can again agree to disagree(assuming you can let it go which you have had trouble with in the past).

quote:

At an event(not Showball) last summer a listed coach was fired weeks before hand, but there was a guy who showed up representing the school. Sure enough he turned out to be a "Baseball Operations Coordinator". Was that a violation of the NCAA rules? I don't know nor care, but he certainly was not a person who made recruitment decisions. Another event was suppose to only have head coaches, but the coach from the listed school was gone(quit or fired, I'm not sure which)and the "new head coach" showed up instead. Sure enough he turned out not to be the new head coach, but he was touted as such.

The bottom line and my primary point in all this is, buyer beware. If you have a problem with that so be it, we can again agree to disagree(assuming you can let it go which you have had trouble with in the past).

Actually, I am a father, a baseball fan, especially someone who enjoys college baseball and a person who really likes this site. But it always gives me when someone brings in the lawyer issue...and attributes it to information or "haunting warnings" from others.
The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have considerable experience with showcases.
It also becomes clear you are educated and far more familiar than most with many of the intricate aspects of the NCAA rules and how schools may try and skirt them or play on the edges.
With your showcase experience and awareness of the NCAA issue and implications, I would have to assume you knew exactly what you were doing when you posted everything in your disclaimer to Showball Showcase about having sufficient coaches with decision making ability attend in order to make the dollars and showcase worthwhile for those who asked in the thread.
In light of your obvious appreciation of the NCAA issues and the ways schools and staffs might seek to circumvent or skirt the issues, your "caution" to those seeking input seems more curious than ever:
" That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.
In light of your posts, there surely is one area of agreement...showcases are buyer beware.
Hopefully, those reading this thread will be even more aware of what they might be unaware in showcases and posting on the site.
Vector, in September of 2010, you arrived on the site with posts like this one:
" As a few of you know from my first thread I have a 17yr old pitcher going into his senior year. We have not gone to the highly recruited tourneys and showcases last year, and time is obviously running out. His HS fall ball team has decent local competation, but they do not travel to the big tourneys where sctouts typically gather. So I'd like to know the three best options for him this coming fall and winter. We live in Florida, but would be willing to travel. Obviously showcases are pay and play, but for any of these invitation only tourneys, how do you find a team that is looking for pitchers? The second part of my inquiry is related to invitations to various schools camps. I get invitations all the time to send my son to various camps, but I've been under the impression it is a money making solicitation. So aside from maybe sending him to a few at schools he has a genuine interest in, are there any which have enough scouts from various schools to justify the overall cost?"
Contrasted with your last several very knowledgeable posts in this thread about many showcases attended and how they function/interact with college coaches, I think there is more to Vector than Vector has provided in seeking and offering opinions and advice.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
Actually, I am a father, a baseball fan, especially someone who enjoys college baseball and a person who really likes this site. But it always gives me when someone brings in the lawyer issue...and attributes it to information or "haunting warnings" from others.
The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have considerable experience with showcases.
It also becomes clear you are educated and far more familiar than most with many of the intricate aspects of the NCAA rules and how schools may try and skirt them or play on the edges.
With your showcase experience and awareness of the NCAA issue and implications, I would have to assume you knew exactly what you were doing when you posted everything in your disclaimer to Showball Showcase about having sufficient coaches with decision making ability attend in order to make the dollars and showcase worthwhile for those who asked in the thread.
In light of your obvious appreciation of the NCAA issues and the ways schools and staffs might seek to circumvent or skirt the issues, your "caution" to those seeking input seems more curious than ever:
" That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.
In light of your posts, there surely is one area of agreement...showcases are buyer beware.
Hopefully, those reading this thread will be even more aware of what they might be unaware in showcases and posting on the site.
Vector, in September of 2010, you arrived on the site with posts like this one:
" As a few of you know from my first thread I have a 17yr old pitcher going into his senior year. We have not gone to the highly recruited tourneys and showcases last year, and time is obviously running out. His HS fall ball team has decent local competation, but they do not travel to the big tourneys where sctouts typically gather. So I'd like to know the three best options for him this coming fall and winter. We live in Florida, but would be willing to travel. Obviously showcases are pay and play, but for any of these invitation only tourneys, how do you find a team that is looking for pitchers? The second part of my inquiry is related to invitations to various schools camps. I get invitations all the time to send my son to various camps, but I've been under the impression it is a money making solicitation. So aside from maybe sending him to a few at schools he has a genuine interest in, are there any which have enough scouts from various schools to justify the overall cost?"
Contrasted with your last several very knowledgeable posts in this thread about many showcases attended and how they function/interact with college coaches, I think there is more to Vector than Vector has provided in seeking and offering opinions and advice.

I quoted this just to show what you are all about. I never claimed the things you say I did. My vast experience as you imply is just based on my recent experiences with a handful of showcases by different organizations. Still it does not preclude me from sharing my experiences with others here on the site. In trying to help someone I did not expect for you to come here trying to continue a personal vendetta.


It is clear you disregard what I actually write and/or give your own interpretation and spin on things. For instance when I say I do not know the NCAA rule regarding volunteers and this issue, you turn around and say I claim to be "far more familiar" with NCAA rules than most. Aside from your sarcasm you are clearly misrepresenting what I said, but I guess since you do that for a living it comes easy. I will also note you cannot resist having the last word even when the other party requests the issue be dropped. Again that is something at least one other person has noted about you, and I am sure there are more who see it but remain silent.

I really do not want to make this personal and have stated as much. However you seem compelled to do so, and do not care whos thread you trample in the process. Most of what you have posted in this thread has nothing to do with the subject, and is nothing more than a veiled way of trying to get me annoyed. Why not just PM me and tell me how you think I am all wet? Or do you get some thrill out of a public sparring match where you are willing to look up old posts in an effort to make your point? That is really sad when you picture an adult man so invested that he needs to spend time doing past post research to try and attack another poster.

So for the record I invite you to carry out this immature behavior privately rather than inject this nonsense into any other posters threads.

To the OP, you have my apologies for getting involved in this back and forth with infielddad in your thread.
I've given my opinion for what it is worth and will not respond again to the inevitable reply he will feel compelled to post here.