Received an invite to the Northeast/Southeast ShowBall Collegiate Showcase Camp in August at Fort Myers, FL.
They Guarantee over 30 schools coaches in attendance. Has anyone heard of them or attended one of their events?
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I got an invite too. There are a couple of schools that I am interested in that are attending.
My son received an invite as well. I assumed it was due to his participation in Perfect Game events in the past.
my son also received an invite but he did not go to Perfect Game. I was wondering how they got his name. He did attend a camp run by some pro scouts and a showcase...but not sure if that's where it came from or not. Saw that it is $595 for the two-day showcase. Same weekend as Perfect Game showcase in Lexington.
Does anyone know if the schools that are listed will actually show up. 32 D1 schools is a big claim to make. It just doesn't seem likely to me that they would all show up.
I have never heard of them either, that's why I asked about this. I have gone to KC Royals and Phillies MLB tryouts, also went to the camp in Louisville, perhaps one of those is where they got my name from I just don't know.
For me, $595 is a huge amount of money and most of what I have to spend on camps this summer and this is an important summer for me as I am a 2012. For that kind of money, would I be better off going to a PG showcase, or attend several college camps here in the midwest instead?
For me, $595 is a huge amount of money and most of what I have to spend on camps this summer and this is an important summer for me as I am a 2012. For that kind of money, would I be better off going to a PG showcase, or attend several college camps here in the midwest instead?
I don't know anything about it either. It looks like quite a few colleges will be there, but with the cost of the event plus travel costs, it could be very expensive. To me, if there are certain colleges that you are looking at, I would go to their camps. My son has not even been seen in a game yet, but went to a camp at a D1 school that has already offered a scholarship. He is also a 2012 pitcher.
2013 received the same letter. Has not attended a PG event but has done the PBR in Illinois, a few college camps and has a BeRecruited site.
We, too, were suspicious of the claims of those schools "committed to attending."
We, too, were suspicious of the claims of those schools "committed to attending."
My son went to the florida event last year(I think it was in St, Pete).
Yes, I do believe all the schools listed did indeed send a coach or
at least a team rep to wear the schools hat and or uniform. That being said,
only a handful were really doing any coaching. A number of coaches didn't
even want to interact with players. During the two day event, they put
the players through the typical showcase workout.All players were assigned
to a coach / team for the simulated games.This would be the coach who
gives you your written evaluation at camps end. Even if he didn't see all of your workout.It was a very generic evaluation at best. Son's eval was better than most that I saw,but who really knows ?
Unfortunatly we had to deal with a lot of rain, so the whole event was very disorganized. May explain my bitterness, and why I wouldn't recommend anyone
spend the time or money.
Just my 2cents
Yes, I do believe all the schools listed did indeed send a coach or
at least a team rep to wear the schools hat and or uniform. That being said,
only a handful were really doing any coaching. A number of coaches didn't
even want to interact with players. During the two day event, they put
the players through the typical showcase workout.All players were assigned
to a coach / team for the simulated games.This would be the coach who
gives you your written evaluation at camps end. Even if he didn't see all of your workout.It was a very generic evaluation at best. Son's eval was better than most that I saw,but who really knows ?
Unfortunatly we had to deal with a lot of rain, so the whole event was very disorganized. May explain my bitterness, and why I wouldn't recommend anyone
spend the time or money.
Just my 2cents
quote:Originally posted by DLOCK15:
Does anyone know if the schools that are listed will actually show up. 32 D1 schools is a big claim to make. It just doesn't seem likely to me that they would all show up.
They do mass mailings, so your name and address/email is out there somewhere. Anyone who pays plays, so it is not an invite in the sense of skill equating to a selective invitation only event.
My son attended last summers event in the same location with roughly the same number of coaches promised. To the events credit they did have all or most of the promised schools in attendance.
HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.
They will give a written evaluation which is done by one of the coaches who's school is listed. If your son performs well and is seen by one of the schools you are interested in, it might work out. Keep in mind that multiple games are going at once, so not every kid is seen by every coach.
To me, the Perfect Game events are the best on several levels. I'd put the Showball and Top 96 events somewhere in the middle based on my experiences last year.
quote:Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.
You know Vector, I don't think you and I are going to be mailing birthday cards.
Can you quantify "nobody" in terms of a volunteer assistant in your vast experience?
Are you sure the showcase was staffed by volunteer assistants who were evaluating showcase attendees?
Wouldn't that be an NCAA violation per By-Law 11.01.5(a)?
Yes, you guessed it.
Our son is a "nobody" by your description.
Wonder why he is entrusted with coaching outfielders, coaching 1B during games, earned the title of "hitting coach" after his first Fall, is asked to scout the other team during BP to provide input to the pitching coach, works to get kids placed in Summer leagues, shows up 2 hours early for practice for "early work" with hitters and stays sometimes 2 hours and longer after and on days off.
Nope, I don't believe we will be sharing anything from Hallmark!
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
You know Vector, I don't think you and I are going to be mailing birthday cards.
Can you quantify "nobody" in terms of a volunteer assistant in your vast experience?
Are you sure the showcase was staffed by volunteer assistants who were evaluating showcase attendees?
Wouldn't that be an NCAA violation per By-Law 11.01.5(a)?
Yes, you guessed it.
Our son is a "nobody" by your description.
Wonder why he is entrusted with coaching outfielders, coaching 1B during games, earned the title of "hitting coach" after his first Fall, is asked to scout the other team during BP to provide input to the pitching coach, works to get kids placed in Summer leagues, shows up 2 hours early for practice for "early work" with hitters and stays sometimes 2 hours and longer after and on days off.
Nope, I don't believe we will be sharing anything from Hallmark!
Yes you and I do seem to be at odds over several subjects, but that might be due to you taking things too personally. Then again we might just have different perspectives.
My experience as it relates to the aforementioned is first hand knowledge since I know the staff in question. When I mentioned to the recruiting coordinator(assistant coach) why a particular "coach" was attending the event, he said it was just a way for him to get some experience. Technically he was nothing more than a first year team manager(you know what that means), but was given the title volunteer coach.
The trouble with you seems to be a willingness to look for areas of possible contention and then run with it. No slight of your son was intended since I do not know anything about him.
I also said coaches with experience and substance did attend some of these events as well. That may be a description of your son, but rather than choose to see the glass half full, you decided to see it as half empty.
Furthermore, not all volunteer coaches are low on the totem pole. Heck I know one of the most knowledgeable coaches in the country that agreed to take a pay cut and is now a volunteer. Yet he is one of the guys you hope shows up because if he likes you, you are in.
So rather than try to personalize things and look for areas of disagreement between us, just be a little less jaded when reading my posts. I do not harbor any ill will toward you and hope you feel the same.
Vector,
This, amongst other items, is what you posted:
"Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole."
Well, it might not just be different perspectives, it might be different experiences leading to a fund of knowledge about college baseball.
Now if you had posted, as you now attempt to clarify, that the volunteer assistant actually was a team manager and was just along for the ride and to observe/get experience, and apparently there was only one, that surely would have been wonderful. Of course if it was only one program at this showcase with a team manager "posed" as a volunteer assistant, standing by the recruiting coordinator, I am hard pressed to figure out why you posted what you you did. "Some" are nothing more than nobody volunteer assistants is meant to communicate there was one team manager with a recruiting coordinator?
Hmmmm
I would propose any reasonable reading of your post didn't say that.
Your words and attitude speak for themselves.
Oh well..surely that is me taking things too personally.
This, amongst other items, is what you posted:
"Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole."
Well, it might not just be different perspectives, it might be different experiences leading to a fund of knowledge about college baseball.
Now if you had posted, as you now attempt to clarify, that the volunteer assistant actually was a team manager and was just along for the ride and to observe/get experience, and apparently there was only one, that surely would have been wonderful. Of course if it was only one program at this showcase with a team manager "posed" as a volunteer assistant, standing by the recruiting coordinator, I am hard pressed to figure out why you posted what you you did. "Some" are nothing more than nobody volunteer assistants is meant to communicate there was one team manager with a recruiting coordinator?
Hmmmm
I would propose any reasonable reading of your post didn't say that.
Your words and attitude speak for themselves.
Oh well..surely that is me taking things too personally.
quote:Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole.
Vector, you just can't go around saying stuff like this as a general statement. Perhaps you didn't mean the way it sounds?
My son's (2) pitching coaches throughout his time at Stanford were both 'volunteers.' And they were FANTASTIC! There is no way I would have ever thought to categorize them as 'low on the totem pole.' And I do believe that through their own camps that these coaches had a say in who was recruited and who was not. I could(?) be wrong about that, but I doubt it.
If I think about who the volunteer at Stanford is now, he's a young guy who no doubt is trying to climb into the coaching profession on a paid basis. This is just the way it works sometimes. I think you will often find that the players on a team are most connected to the volunteer coach...usually younger and easier to connect with.
As I think back about college baseball, two of the very unfair things about the way the game has been structured by the NCAA are the low scholarship numbers and unpaid, "volunteer" assistants.
So if it was one in question does that mean that there was just ONE volunteer coach or there were many?
You know something funny, the volunteer coach at CU when son was there is now the head recruiting coach for them.
That's what being a nobody can do for ya!
You know something funny, the volunteer coach at CU when son was there is now the head recruiting coach for them.
That's what being a nobody can do for ya!
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
Your words and attitude speak for themselves.
Oh well..surely that is me taking things too personally.
It clearly is, but you seem unwilling or unable to see the forest for the trees. You have an issue when it comes to me, and have decided to try and find things to argue about. If you had simply said that I painted with too wide a brush, or my generalization was not fair, that would have been fine. Instead you start with the X-mas card thing alluding to the recent past. I have seen other posters essentially same the same thing, and for some reason you do not pounce on them for it. I know of more than just this one incident I specifically mentioned for your benefit, and apparently others here have as well.
I do not need you to analyze every specific comment I make and then try to dissect it for the purpose of being argumentative with me.
I do not expect this behavior will continue on your part, unless you are seriously lacking in maturity. As I recall the last thread we disagreed about Title IX and you had to get the last word at the expense of repeating the same thing over and over again. It essentially took me to say lets move on, and you still felt compelled to throw in another snide comment. Maybe you are just argumentative by nature?
Regardless, I know there are some of these events that either do not have decision makers showing up, or in some cases do not send anyone at all. To deny it ever happens would be foolish on your part.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Perhaps you didn't mean the way it sounds?
If what I wrote comes across as impugning all volunteer coaches, then that was not my intention. As I clarified in my followup to infielddad, I know of volunteer coaches who have more gravitas than the head coaches. So my comment was not a blanket generalization, rather an observation in certain circumstances. Others here have said as much regarding some of these events where just because someone is wearing *** Univ Baseball cap or shirt, does not mean they are decision makers.
So my point is that some of these events are attended by "coaches" who have no authority when it comes to deciding who will be a recruit. Sure if they come across a LHP throwing 96 then the head and/or assistant coach will pursue that kid because it is a no brainer.
As to the overall work and hours volunteer assistant coaches put it, I have nothing but respect and admiration for what they do. Just because someone has not risen to a higher status within the coaching staff does not reflect on the positive contributions they provide to the program. Everyone has to start somewhere, and in many instances their hard work pays off as they move up the ladder. My hat is off to them because they are the unsung heroes of many a program. Sadly when the head coach gets released, the staff gets the axe as well through no fault of their own.
Vector,
Very interesting response.
Let's see, this thread started with a group of folks(several) asking about attending the ShowBall Showcase.
Your post says your son attended last Summer.
I assume everyone posting and asking before you would trust your personal experience
Your post then includes this huge "HOWEVER" and goes on to describe that anyone attending should be wary, based on your experience, of the following:
"HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer."
.
I have never been to a ShowBall Showcase, as you and your son have.
However, I do know that the NCAA precludes Volunteer Assistants from attending functions such as this to recruit or perform talent assessments.
Logically, your claims that "SOME" of the coaches who attend are volunteer assistants raised questions, to me, as to the validity of your disclaimers and cautions you provided for the readers of this site.
Not only would the prior posters be expected to consider and potentially rely on your comments based on you and your son's personal experience, ShowBall Showcase, whoever they might be, could be impacted by the discussion and your relating of an experience which might cause others to think twice about the "value" of exposure to a Camp, including some number out of 30 coaches who are "volunteers," or are "nobodies" and cannot make any decisions.
From what I can tell from your words, since I cannot read your mind, the truth of your experience was one "manager" at the ShowBall Showcase, which you readily knew when you posted the " However."
Additionally, you represent to have solid relationships with other volunteer assistants who attend showcases and evaluate talent, all in possible violation of the NCAA by law posted previously.
How can volunteers attend showcases to evaluate talent in light of the NCAA prohibitions?
Hopefully, even though you might not like it, dissecting the words which get posted can be helpful for those who are reading and trying to make a judgment on whether the "HOWEVER" in a post like yours is one which is valid.
Hopefully the folks who asked in this thread and those with ShowBall Showcase will be better informed by this discussion surrounding your post of your personal experience and personal knowledge of the coaches who attend, evaluate talent and recruit from this showcase.
Our son won't be attending any showcases to get "exposure" like those asking in this thread are seeking.
I wonder why you would choose to lead those seeking important information for themselves or sons along the pathway you did with everything you posted after However.
Very interesting response.
Let's see, this thread started with a group of folks(several) asking about attending the ShowBall Showcase.
Your post says your son attended last Summer.
I assume everyone posting and asking before you would trust your personal experience
Your post then includes this huge "HOWEVER" and goes on to describe that anyone attending should be wary, based on your experience, of the following:
"HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer."
.
I have never been to a ShowBall Showcase, as you and your son have.
However, I do know that the NCAA precludes Volunteer Assistants from attending functions such as this to recruit or perform talent assessments.
Logically, your claims that "SOME" of the coaches who attend are volunteer assistants raised questions, to me, as to the validity of your disclaimers and cautions you provided for the readers of this site.
Not only would the prior posters be expected to consider and potentially rely on your comments based on you and your son's personal experience, ShowBall Showcase, whoever they might be, could be impacted by the discussion and your relating of an experience which might cause others to think twice about the "value" of exposure to a Camp, including some number out of 30 coaches who are "volunteers," or are "nobodies" and cannot make any decisions.
From what I can tell from your words, since I cannot read your mind, the truth of your experience was one "manager" at the ShowBall Showcase, which you readily knew when you posted the " However."
Additionally, you represent to have solid relationships with other volunteer assistants who attend showcases and evaluate talent, all in possible violation of the NCAA by law posted previously.
How can volunteers attend showcases to evaluate talent in light of the NCAA prohibitions?
Hopefully, even though you might not like it, dissecting the words which get posted can be helpful for those who are reading and trying to make a judgment on whether the "HOWEVER" in a post like yours is one which is valid.
Hopefully the folks who asked in this thread and those with ShowBall Showcase will be better informed by this discussion surrounding your post of your personal experience and personal knowledge of the coaches who attend, evaluate talent and recruit from this showcase.
Our son won't be attending any showcases to get "exposure" like those asking in this thread are seeking.
I wonder why you would choose to lead those seeking important information for themselves or sons along the pathway you did with everything you posted after However.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
Vector,
Very interesting response.
Let's see, this thread started with a group of folks(several) asking about attending the ShowBall Showcase.
Your post says your son attended last Summer.
I assume everyone posting and asking before you would trust your personal experience
Your post then includes this huge "HOWEVER" and goes on to describe that anyone attending should be wary, based on your experience, of the following:
"HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totum pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer."
.
I have never been to a ShowBall Showcase, as you and your son have.
However, I do know that the NCAA precludes Volunteer Assistants from attending functions such as this to recruit or perform talent assessments.
Logically, your claims of that "SOME" of the coaches who attend are volunteer assistants raised questions, to me, as to the validity of your disclaimers and cautions you provided for the readers of this site.
Not only would the prior posters be expected to consider and potentially rely on your comments based on you and your son's personal experience, ShowBall Showcase, whoever they might be, could be impacted by the discussion and your relating of an experience which might cause others to think twice about the "value" of exposure to a Camp, including some number out of 30 coaches who are "volunteers," or are "nobodies" and cannot make any decisions.
From what I can tell from your words, since I cannot read your mind, the truth of your experience was one "manager" at the ShowBall Showcase, which you readily knew when you posted the " However."
Additionally, you represent to have solid relationships with other volunteer assistants who attend showcases and evaluate talent, all in possible violation of the NCAA by law posted previously.
How can volunteers attend showcases to evaluate talent in light of the NCAA prohibitions?
Hopefully, even though you might not like it, dissecting the words which get posted can be helpful for those who are reading and trying to make a judgment on whether the "HOWEVER" in a post like yours is one which is valid.
Hopefully the folks who asked in this thread and those with ShowBall Showcase will be better informed by this discussion surrounding your post of your personal experience and personal knowledge of the coaches who attend, evaluate talent and recruit from this showcase.
Our son won't be attending any showcases to get "exposure" like those asking in this thread are seeking.
I wonder why you would choose to lead those seeking important information for themselves or sons along the pathway you did with everything you posted after However.
Well I just got word from someone about you that explains your apparent love to argue. They said this is not uncommon for you, especially since you are supposedly a lawyer. That at least explains part of why you act the way you do(like that generalization that many would agree with)?
I have noticed that you have no regard for the thread when getting into these tit for tat debates with me. If you choose to disagree with me fine, but lets not have you do this in every thread you object to my comments. Presumably we are both trying to help out fellow posters, so they can read our divergent points of view and decide for themselves without having to read through all the other stuff you like to post. I tend to be guilty as well replying back to your posts, so I will try to do better.
As to the rules violation issue, don't assume you understand every factor is this discussion, because clearly you do not. Some coaches are coming under the designation of Baseball Instructional Clinics, not recruitment events. In reality everyone knows that these coaches are not going to ignore talent if they see it just because they are there to "primarily instruct" rather than recruit.
While I am not sure about the rules as it relates to volunteer coaches, many of these "events" are considered instructional in nature, therefore they supposedly skirt NCAA issues(or so I've been told). So if it is an instructional camp which also has XYZ schools attending, maybe that is why it goes on.
(I want to make it clear that I am not singling out Showball because this experience has also occurred at other events. Furthermore the Showball event was decent and well run. While I still prefer Perfect Game events, Showball does have value in my view.)
Furthermore, some coaches are called assistants without the volunteer label, but again they may very well be on the bottom of the food chain in regards to deciding on who is to be recruited. The title "Undergraduate Assistant Coach" is used, and I know of several who do not get paid. So are they volunteers even though that is not in their title?
I have seen coaching staffs that have specific coaches designated as the lead recruiting coordinator, assistant recruiting coordinator, etc., and then the guy on the bottom of the list has no such responsibility, yet is the one coming to the camp/showcase.
Heck if the event says XYZ college is coming, and they send a manager, who is going to know the difference unless they do the research? Are some of these events likely to say two of the 30 colleges could not send a coach, but since the towel boy from XYZ is coming, we are covered? Of course not, but do not assume it does not happen.
At an event(not Showball) last summer a listed coach was fired weeks before hand, but there was a guy who showed up representing the school. Sure enough he turned out to be a "Baseball Operations Coordinator". Was that a violation of the NCAA rules? I don't know nor care, but he certainly was not a person who made recruitment decisions. Another event was suppose to only have head coaches, but the coach from the listed school was gone(quit or fired, I'm not sure which)and the "new head coach" showed up instead. Sure enough he turned out not to be the new head coach, but he was touted as such.
The bottom line and my primary point in all this is, buyer beware. If you have a problem with that so be it, we can again agree to disagree(assuming you can let it go which you have had trouble with in the past).
quote:At an event(not Showball) last summer a listed coach was fired weeks before hand, but there was a guy who showed up representing the school. Sure enough he turned out to be a "Baseball Operations Coordinator". Was that a violation of the NCAA rules? I don't know nor care, but he certainly was not a person who made recruitment decisions. Another event was suppose to only have head coaches, but the coach from the listed school was gone(quit or fired, I'm not sure which)and the "new head coach" showed up instead. Sure enough he turned out not to be the new head coach, but he was touted as such.
The bottom line and my primary point in all this is, buyer beware. If you have a problem with that so be it, we can again agree to disagree(assuming you can let it go which you have had trouble with in the past).
Actually, I am a father, a baseball fan, especially someone who enjoys college baseball and a person who really likes this site. But it always gives me
when someone brings in the lawyer issue...and attributes it to information or "haunting warnings" from others. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have considerable experience with showcases.
It also becomes clear you are educated and far more familiar than most with many of the intricate aspects of the NCAA rules and how schools may try and skirt them or play on the edges.
With your showcase experience and awareness of the NCAA issue and implications, I would have to assume you knew exactly what you were doing when you posted everything in your disclaimer to Showball Showcase about having sufficient coaches with decision making ability attend in order to make the dollars and showcase worthwhile for those who asked in the thread.
In light of your obvious appreciation of the NCAA issues and the ways schools and staffs might seek to circumvent or skirt the issues, your "caution" to those seeking input seems more curious than ever:
" That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.
In light of your posts, there surely is one area of agreement...showcases are buyer beware.
Hopefully, those reading this thread will be even more aware of what they might be unaware in showcases and posting on the site.
Vector, in September of 2010, you arrived on the site with posts like this one:
" As a few of you know from my first thread I have a 17yr old pitcher going into his senior year. We have not gone to the highly recruited tourneys and showcases last year, and time is obviously running out. His HS fall ball team has decent local competation, but they do not travel to the big tourneys where sctouts typically gather. So I'd like to know the three best options for him this coming fall and winter. We live in Florida, but would be willing to travel. Obviously showcases are pay and play, but for any of these invitation only tourneys, how do you find a team that is looking for pitchers? The second part of my inquiry is related to invitations to various schools camps. I get invitations all the time to send my son to various camps, but I've been under the impression it is a money making solicitation. So aside from maybe sending him to a few at schools he has a genuine interest in, are there any which have enough scouts from various schools to justify the overall cost?"
Contrasted with your last several very knowledgeable posts in this thread about many showcases attended and how they function/interact with college coaches, I think there is more to Vector than Vector has provided in seeking and offering opinions and advice.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
Actually, I am a father, a baseball fan, especially someone who enjoys college baseball and a person who really likes this site. But it always gives me
The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have considerable experience with showcases.
It also becomes clear you are educated and far more familiar than most with many of the intricate aspects of the NCAA rules and how schools may try and skirt them or play on the edges.
With your showcase experience and awareness of the NCAA issue and implications, I would have to assume you knew exactly what you were doing when you posted everything in your disclaimer to Showball Showcase about having sufficient coaches with decision making ability attend in order to make the dollars and showcase worthwhile for those who asked in the thread.
In light of your obvious appreciation of the NCAA issues and the ways schools and staffs might seek to circumvent or skirt the issues, your "caution" to those seeking input seems more curious than ever:
" That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer.
In light of your posts, there surely is one area of agreement...showcases are buyer beware.
Hopefully, those reading this thread will be even more aware of what they might be unaware in showcases and posting on the site.
Vector, in September of 2010, you arrived on the site with posts like this one:
" As a few of you know from my first thread I have a 17yr old pitcher going into his senior year. We have not gone to the highly recruited tourneys and showcases last year, and time is obviously running out. His HS fall ball team has decent local competation, but they do not travel to the big tourneys where sctouts typically gather. So I'd like to know the three best options for him this coming fall and winter. We live in Florida, but would be willing to travel. Obviously showcases are pay and play, but for any of these invitation only tourneys, how do you find a team that is looking for pitchers? The second part of my inquiry is related to invitations to various schools camps. I get invitations all the time to send my son to various camps, but I've been under the impression it is a money making solicitation. So aside from maybe sending him to a few at schools he has a genuine interest in, are there any which have enough scouts from various schools to justify the overall cost?"
Contrasted with your last several very knowledgeable posts in this thread about many showcases attended and how they function/interact with college coaches, I think there is more to Vector than Vector has provided in seeking and offering opinions and advice.
I quoted this just to show what you are all about. I never claimed the things you say I did. My vast experience as you imply is just based on my recent experiences with a handful of showcases by different organizations. Still it does not preclude me from sharing my experiences with others here on the site. In trying to help someone I did not expect for you to come here trying to continue a personal vendetta.
It is clear you disregard what I actually write and/or give your own interpretation and spin on things. For instance when I say I do not know the NCAA rule regarding volunteers and this issue, you turn around and say I claim to be "far more familiar" with NCAA rules than most. Aside from your sarcasm you are clearly misrepresenting what I said, but I guess since you do that for a living it comes easy. I will also note you cannot resist having the last word even when the other party requests the issue be dropped. Again that is something at least one other person has noted about you, and I am sure there are more who see it but remain silent.
I really do not want to make this personal and have stated as much. However you seem compelled to do so, and do not care whos thread you trample in the process. Most of what you have posted in this thread has nothing to do with the subject, and is nothing more than a veiled way of trying to get me annoyed. Why not just PM me and tell me how you think I am all wet? Or do you get some thrill out of a public sparring match where you are willing to look up old posts in an effort to make your point? That is really sad when you picture an adult man so invested that he needs to spend time doing past post research to try and attack another poster.
So for the record I invite you to carry out this immature behavior privately rather than inject this nonsense into any other posters threads.
To the OP, you have my apologies for getting involved in this back and forth with infielddad in your thread.
I've given my opinion for what it is worth and will not respond again to the inevitable reply he will feel compelled to post here.
So what is your opinion on ShowBall Showcases, for the OP?
Is it filled with volunteer assistants and others who cannot make decisions, with a few who can?
Or is/was it just one?
This was your post that led to the discussion you want to end.
Look, you can call me, or your view of the way I post on this board, immature and other names you might like. You can demean me and introduce the "lawyer" part as much as you want.
You can state I don't know the rules the way I think I do.
You can suggest as you want to suggest.
The point being made is about what you stated occurs or does not occur because of the coaches and lowly volunteer assistants who attend Showball Showcases..based on your experience.
I have said I have never been and know nothing about them. You have.
For those who asked in the beginning of this thread, their questions have still not been directly answered since you posted this:
"HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totem pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer."
You can deflect and put all the innuendo on me. I don't have any issue since our son won't ever need to make these choices.
What matters is getting a straightforward and clear answer about your "HOWEVER" for the OP and those who also were invited and asked.
Is your "HOWEVER" disclaimer accurate or not in terms of the coaches who attended when you and your son attended?
Is it filled with volunteer assistants and others who cannot make decisions, with a few who can?
Or is/was it just one?
This was your post that led to the discussion you want to end.
Look, you can call me, or your view of the way I post on this board, immature and other names you might like. You can demean me and introduce the "lawyer" part as much as you want.
You can state I don't know the rules the way I think I do.
You can suggest as you want to suggest.
The point being made is about what you stated occurs or does not occur because of the coaches and lowly volunteer assistants who attend Showball Showcases..based on your experience.
I have said I have never been and know nothing about them. You have.
For those who asked in the beginning of this thread, their questions have still not been directly answered since you posted this:
"HOWEVER, keep this in mind when making your decision. Not every coach who shows up is a decision maker. Some are nothing more than volunteer assistant coaches who are low on the totem pole. That is not to say all of them are nobodies because they also have the recruiting coordinators present in some cases, as well as an occasional head coach. Still many are not in a position to make decisions, much less have authority to make an offer."
You can deflect and put all the innuendo on me. I don't have any issue since our son won't ever need to make these choices.
What matters is getting a straightforward and clear answer about your "HOWEVER" for the OP and those who also were invited and asked.
Is your "HOWEVER" disclaimer accurate or not in terms of the coaches who attended when you and your son attended?
OMG. I CAME HERE LOOKING FOR INFO ON SHOWBALL AND INSTEAD I GET TO SEE TWO ADULTS (?) VERBALLY SPARRING. ITS THE SECOND THREAD IN AS MANY DAYS WHERE PEOPLE TAKE To using this as a soapbox instead of sticking to the op. CANT WE USE PMs TO WORK OUT PERSONAL DIFFERENCES AND LEAVE THE THREAD FORWHAT IT WAS MEANT FOR. SHEESH, NUFF SAid.
I signed my son up pto attend last years Showball Showcase @ $595.00
He was signed up as a pitcher and we were very unhappy at the way things were run.
Yes we did have rain and this is how it went.
Saturday, Raining - All the position players were inside the cages getting hitting evaluations, Pitchers sat inside listeneing to a few coaches telling them about their accomplishments, NOT once did they actually try to teach anything to these kids.
Sunday - My son pitched 1 inning, just like all the other pitchers and was then given an evalutation saying need to work harder on all pitches, I compared to other kids i knew there and all evaluations were the same.
Basically broke down to $595.00 + Expenses for 1 Inning
None of the coaches interacted with the kids, they st there talked, laughed and had a good time, they were paid by showball, so what did they care.
After this i went directly to PG, Signed him up for their Underclassman event at the end of December and was extremly impressed and satisfied at the way they run their event.
Will never do a showball again BUT will definetly do a PG again
SAVE YOUR MONEY AND GO TO A PERFECT GAME EVENT
Son had a rough outing at Perfect game since it was in the 30's due to extreme cold front but received an 8.5 rating, they said all pitches were good with movement and topped out at 88, not bad for a 2013
He was signed up as a pitcher and we were very unhappy at the way things were run.
Yes we did have rain and this is how it went.
Saturday, Raining - All the position players were inside the cages getting hitting evaluations, Pitchers sat inside listeneing to a few coaches telling them about their accomplishments, NOT once did they actually try to teach anything to these kids.
Sunday - My son pitched 1 inning, just like all the other pitchers and was then given an evalutation saying need to work harder on all pitches, I compared to other kids i knew there and all evaluations were the same.
Basically broke down to $595.00 + Expenses for 1 Inning
None of the coaches interacted with the kids, they st there talked, laughed and had a good time, they were paid by showball, so what did they care.
After this i went directly to PG, Signed him up for their Underclassman event at the end of December and was extremly impressed and satisfied at the way they run their event.
Will never do a showball again BUT will definetly do a PG again
SAVE YOUR MONEY AND GO TO A PERFECT GAME EVENT
Son had a rough outing at Perfect game since it was in the 30's due to extreme cold front but received an 8.5 rating, they said all pitches were good with movement and topped out at 88, not bad for a 2013
I think I am now officially ill.
Southfldad, great news on your son. 88 is GREAT for a 2013 btw.
Southfldad, great news on your son. 88 is GREAT for a 2013 btw.
I have seen these guys pop up a lot. They advertise a lot of big D1 schools that attend. I think it would be a waste of time for us being my son is more of a D2/D3/Junior College player. I am curious to see how others felt it was ran.
I was going to stay out of it but looks like these posts keep mysteriously getting off the subject of the thread and get pushed in the direction of Perfect Game. I felt like I had to chirp in after I saw the typical dogging of camps on this website. My Son happened to attend both of these camps last summer.
To be fair to Showball, this website is overrun with fulltimers on the Perfect Game Staff. Pumping their product. Small camps don't have a chance anymore. Why is a staff member of Perfect Game posting on a thread that is supposed to be about Showball? Perfect Game is a huge company with tremendous advertising power. Have you seen their advertisment on Wrigley Field? Or how about the fact that - PERFECT GAME IS THE MAIN SPONSOR OF THIS WEBSITE THAT YOU ARE READING! (That being said I'm sure this will be removed).
Anyway, sorry for my rant. Lets get down to business. The Perfect Game camp was worth the money. I like the staff as they were very polite and helpful through the whole process. It was a professionally run event. There were plenty of staff there to answer questions and I liked the evaluation process. Of course I wanted my son to be rated a 10 but according to them he's not even close. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder right? There were a few college coaches in attendance but as the gentleman stated above they did not guarantee coaches. For the cost and the fact he's now on the online database that coaches can search is a plus...(without his evaluation I hope, lol.) it's good value.
Showball puts on a good camp. What struck me is all the coaches actually attended. I was a little leery at first because I haven't heard of these guys before. It was a pretty impressive line-up of D1 Schools. 30 Coaches at once watching my Son take BP was a great experience. These coaches have to see him play before anything happens so why not "kill two birds with one stone". Again, the staff was polite and ready to answer any questions. I would rate it a very good bang for your buck. Priced the same as most camps but a lot more exposure.
Before the Showball camp I read a few things on this board and decided to call one of the college coaches listed on their website. I called Sammy Esposito from University of South Carolina to get a better feel for the camp from a Coaches perspective. Sammy had a lot of good things to say about the Showball organization. Seeing they just won the College World Series and he's been working with them for the last three years I took his word on it.
To get any reliable information on any camp here I would do my own research outside of this website & constrains of the main sponsor.
Question is - will this post get removed?
To be fair to Showball, this website is overrun with fulltimers on the Perfect Game Staff. Pumping their product. Small camps don't have a chance anymore. Why is a staff member of Perfect Game posting on a thread that is supposed to be about Showball? Perfect Game is a huge company with tremendous advertising power. Have you seen their advertisment on Wrigley Field? Or how about the fact that - PERFECT GAME IS THE MAIN SPONSOR OF THIS WEBSITE THAT YOU ARE READING! (That being said I'm sure this will be removed).
Anyway, sorry for my rant. Lets get down to business. The Perfect Game camp was worth the money. I like the staff as they were very polite and helpful through the whole process. It was a professionally run event. There were plenty of staff there to answer questions and I liked the evaluation process. Of course I wanted my son to be rated a 10 but according to them he's not even close. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder right? There were a few college coaches in attendance but as the gentleman stated above they did not guarantee coaches. For the cost and the fact he's now on the online database that coaches can search is a plus...(without his evaluation I hope, lol.) it's good value.
Showball puts on a good camp. What struck me is all the coaches actually attended. I was a little leery at first because I haven't heard of these guys before. It was a pretty impressive line-up of D1 Schools. 30 Coaches at once watching my Son take BP was a great experience. These coaches have to see him play before anything happens so why not "kill two birds with one stone". Again, the staff was polite and ready to answer any questions. I would rate it a very good bang for your buck. Priced the same as most camps but a lot more exposure.
Before the Showball camp I read a few things on this board and decided to call one of the college coaches listed on their website. I called Sammy Esposito from University of South Carolina to get a better feel for the camp from a Coaches perspective. Sammy had a lot of good things to say about the Showball organization. Seeing they just won the College World Series and he's been working with them for the last three years I took his word on it.
To get any reliable information on any camp here I would do my own research outside of this website & constrains of the main sponsor.
Question is - will this post get removed?
Rounder,
Where did you gather all this information? You are welcome to your opinion, but your stating things in such a way that they aren't really opinions. And both of your two posts are the same.
First of all, I don't think anyone on our staff posts here other than me. And I hardly ever post anything negative about anyone else. Personally I know nothing about the subject of this thread. Even if I did, I wouldn't post if it were negative. I can't control what others post if they aren't employed by PG.
The whole subject of sponsoring/advertising has been addressed here many times. We consider what we do here a donation. Many years ago Bob howdeshell started a donation aspect of the site for those interested in helping. There was no advertising back then. I've never asked for any advertisement or favors. I've even asked our advertisement be taken down a few times.
I don't consider us the main sponsor of the site, we are only trying to help the site just as we have always done. Your post is an example of why I didn't want any advertising. Julie kind of insisted on the advertising because she thought it was the right thing to do.
I'm only mentioning this because of what you have written. I ask for no favors and have been involved in several diplomatic disagreements with many of the same posters you are claiming are PG staff members. I assure you they are not!
And I didn't realize we advertised at Wrigley Field. If that is true I need to thank the person who did this, seeing we sure don't pay for any advertising there.
Not sure why you have posted this, but you sure have things confused. I don't have a problem with what you think, but what you have posted is not accurate.
I should also let you know that it is against NCAA rules for a college coach to endorse these things in any publication including message boards. If they could we would have too many endorsements to mention them all. They can talk though and many do. It has worked out well for us. Call the same school and see what they have to say.
Now that I've replied to your rant with one of my own, welcome to the site and thanks for the nice words. While I might not agree with everything you've posted, I do agree with you regarding people doing the research.
BTW, We don't constrain anyone here! I see no reason why anyone would remove your post, but that is not up to me.
Best of luck to your son.
Where did you gather all this information? You are welcome to your opinion, but your stating things in such a way that they aren't really opinions. And both of your two posts are the same.
First of all, I don't think anyone on our staff posts here other than me. And I hardly ever post anything negative about anyone else. Personally I know nothing about the subject of this thread. Even if I did, I wouldn't post if it were negative. I can't control what others post if they aren't employed by PG.
The whole subject of sponsoring/advertising has been addressed here many times. We consider what we do here a donation. Many years ago Bob howdeshell started a donation aspect of the site for those interested in helping. There was no advertising back then. I've never asked for any advertisement or favors. I've even asked our advertisement be taken down a few times.
I don't consider us the main sponsor of the site, we are only trying to help the site just as we have always done. Your post is an example of why I didn't want any advertising. Julie kind of insisted on the advertising because she thought it was the right thing to do.
I'm only mentioning this because of what you have written. I ask for no favors and have been involved in several diplomatic disagreements with many of the same posters you are claiming are PG staff members. I assure you they are not!
And I didn't realize we advertised at Wrigley Field. If that is true I need to thank the person who did this, seeing we sure don't pay for any advertising there.
Not sure why you have posted this, but you sure have things confused. I don't have a problem with what you think, but what you have posted is not accurate.
I should also let you know that it is against NCAA rules for a college coach to endorse these things in any publication including message boards. If they could we would have too many endorsements to mention them all. They can talk though and many do. It has worked out well for us. Call the same school and see what they have to say.
Now that I've replied to your rant with one of my own, welcome to the site and thanks for the nice words. While I might not agree with everything you've posted, I do agree with you regarding people doing the research.
BTW, We don't constrain anyone here! I see no reason why anyone would remove your post, but that is not up to me.
Best of luck to your son.
PG Staff,
By responding to my post and mentioned your own words I believe I've proven my point that PG has a relationship with this website and has paid staff who work on it.
I appreciate your candid response. I think we can both agree on doing your own research before ANY money is spent on any orgainzation.
There has to be a better way than getting info from a site where any Joe Schmo can chime in and dog an orgainization. I bet half of the comments here were made by kids who never even attended these camps. Maybe we could have an exit poll for each camp or a questioneer for only camp participants, done by a third party. I think that would take some of the partiality out of it.
As to comment about the NCAA Violation for me mentioning a coach who I called to get more info, I think you are very misguided and take extreme offense to it. I don't think the NCAA has any sanction over ME stating that I made a phone call to do my research. You should be very careful being a paid staff member of PG, pointing NCAA violation fingers and trying to attach them to various organizations. Unless your on the NCAA Rules Committee I'd advise not to do so. I'm sure there would be some liabilty there if proven wrong. So, of course you got me thinking and I did some research.
Your organization as stated on your home page is a "Scouting Service". So while looking at the NCAA bylaws I found that YOU ARE CORRECT, Perfect Game cannot use ANY Coaches endorsement because you guys are a "RECRUITING SERVICE". The Showcases you run are different than Camps such as Team One, Showball & Top96. So by even stating in your post above that "THEY CAN TALK AND MANY DO. IT HAS WORKED OUT WELL FOR US. CALL THE SAME SCHOOL AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY". So if your pointing fingers;\, you yourself are in violation. It is a NCAA violation to suggest to call the same school to consult with a coach about a recruiting organization. See the NCAA Bylaw below:
- "11.3.2.5 Recruiting Service Consultants.
Institutional athletics department staff members may not endorse, serve as consultants or participate on advisory panels for any recruiting or scouting service involving prospective student-athletes."
Now the statement I made in my previous post about making a phone call to a coach to gather more information about a Camp is a different animal. I AM allowed to enquire about a camp with a coach: "An institution’s athletics department personnel MAY SERVE IN ANY capacity (e.g., counselor, guest lecturer, CONSULTANT) in a non-institutional, privately owned camp/clinic. See below:
- Other Non-Institutional Privately Owned Camps/Clinic (Bylaw 13.12.2.3.3)
An institution’s athletics department personnel may serve in any capacity (e.g., counselor, guest lecturer, consultant) in a non-institutional, privately owned camp/clinic, provided the camp or clinic is operated in accordance with restrictions applicable to institutional camps (e.g., open to any and all entrants, no fee or reduced admission to or employment of athletics award winners). In the sports of football and basketball, participation in such camps/clinics is limited to the months of June, July and August.
Sir, before you point fingers at me for violating NCAA rules please know the rules yourself. To be technical I believe you could place my comment under this NCAA Bylaw. - "Camp/Clinic brochures are no longer restricted in content and design by NCAA rules. It is permissible to include quotes from previous camp participants and their parents, pictures of institutional facilities, quotes from prospects' coaches, information regarding a team's record and seasons, detailed information about the athletics department, and pictures and biographical information about the coaching staff.
I really don't have the time reply to your next post. I have a job outside of baseball and to that point I am envious of you in that you are paid to do this. I still value PG as a recruiting service and may even use you guys again in the future. Pardon me again, but I am a little sensitive when somebody accuses me of breaking the rules. I respect the NCAA and what it does for young men.
Looks like you have a loyal following on this board and I'm sure I'll get trashed for voicing my opinion; as you say I am entitled to it.
- I'd put my money on this post being removed before the later.
By responding to my post and mentioned your own words I believe I've proven my point that PG has a relationship with this website and has paid staff who work on it.
I appreciate your candid response. I think we can both agree on doing your own research before ANY money is spent on any orgainzation.
There has to be a better way than getting info from a site where any Joe Schmo can chime in and dog an orgainization. I bet half of the comments here were made by kids who never even attended these camps. Maybe we could have an exit poll for each camp or a questioneer for only camp participants, done by a third party. I think that would take some of the partiality out of it.
As to comment about the NCAA Violation for me mentioning a coach who I called to get more info, I think you are very misguided and take extreme offense to it. I don't think the NCAA has any sanction over ME stating that I made a phone call to do my research. You should be very careful being a paid staff member of PG, pointing NCAA violation fingers and trying to attach them to various organizations. Unless your on the NCAA Rules Committee I'd advise not to do so. I'm sure there would be some liabilty there if proven wrong. So, of course you got me thinking and I did some research.
Your organization as stated on your home page is a "Scouting Service". So while looking at the NCAA bylaws I found that YOU ARE CORRECT, Perfect Game cannot use ANY Coaches endorsement because you guys are a "RECRUITING SERVICE". The Showcases you run are different than Camps such as Team One, Showball & Top96. So by even stating in your post above that "THEY CAN TALK AND MANY DO. IT HAS WORKED OUT WELL FOR US. CALL THE SAME SCHOOL AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY". So if your pointing fingers;\, you yourself are in violation. It is a NCAA violation to suggest to call the same school to consult with a coach about a recruiting organization. See the NCAA Bylaw below:
- "11.3.2.5 Recruiting Service Consultants.
Institutional athletics department staff members may not endorse, serve as consultants or participate on advisory panels for any recruiting or scouting service involving prospective student-athletes."
Now the statement I made in my previous post about making a phone call to a coach to gather more information about a Camp is a different animal. I AM allowed to enquire about a camp with a coach: "An institution’s athletics department personnel MAY SERVE IN ANY capacity (e.g., counselor, guest lecturer, CONSULTANT) in a non-institutional, privately owned camp/clinic. See below:
- Other Non-Institutional Privately Owned Camps/Clinic (Bylaw 13.12.2.3.3)
An institution’s athletics department personnel may serve in any capacity (e.g., counselor, guest lecturer, consultant) in a non-institutional, privately owned camp/clinic, provided the camp or clinic is operated in accordance with restrictions applicable to institutional camps (e.g., open to any and all entrants, no fee or reduced admission to or employment of athletics award winners). In the sports of football and basketball, participation in such camps/clinics is limited to the months of June, July and August.
Sir, before you point fingers at me for violating NCAA rules please know the rules yourself. To be technical I believe you could place my comment under this NCAA Bylaw. - "Camp/Clinic brochures are no longer restricted in content and design by NCAA rules. It is permissible to include quotes from previous camp participants and their parents, pictures of institutional facilities, quotes from prospects' coaches, information regarding a team's record and seasons, detailed information about the athletics department, and pictures and biographical information about the coaching staff.
I really don't have the time reply to your next post. I have a job outside of baseball and to that point I am envious of you in that you are paid to do this. I still value PG as a recruiting service and may even use you guys again in the future. Pardon me again, but I am a little sensitive when somebody accuses me of breaking the rules. I respect the NCAA and what it does for young men.
Looks like you have a loyal following on this board and I'm sure I'll get trashed for voicing my opinion; as you say I am entitled to it.
- I'd put my money on this post being removed before the later.
First I have no affiliation with PG and my son has not yet even attended a PG Event, but is registered for NorthEast Sunshine. So honestly I don't know personally one way or the other. However, I am a seasoned veteran of Public Message Boards, I'm a huge Ford Mustang fan and have been on those boards for years and other Youth baseball boards more recently. One Major Problem with this form of communication is the loss of "subtext" that is essential in face to face conversation. Sometimes written words appear to be attacks and accusations when they were not intended to be. I did not read :
"I should also let you know that it is against NCAA rules for a college coach to endorse these things in any publication including message boards. If they could we would have too many endorsements to mention them all. They can talk though and many do. It has worked out well for us. Call the same school and see what they have to say."
To be an accusation that you or the named college Coach committed an NCAA rules violation, but I can see how you could have interpreted it that way. In my experience too many threads end up as fights due to the miscommunication caused by the limitations of this format.
Why don't we end the argument with both organizations put forth a useful service. Participants of both have had good things and bad things to say and it is up to each potential customer to do their own research and decide if it is a venue for their child. To describe the proponents of one as their employees or children who never even attended the event they describe is just plain silly.
Frankly no one here wants to read a back and forth ****ing match that ruins so many threads. Like the vast majority of members I utilize this Message Board as a valuable tool to learn how to best assist my son in chasing his dream. Some posts have been more helpful then others, some have ulterior financial motives but all in all I have obtained a wealth of knowledge from the experiences of these posters that I do not believe I could have gained anyplace else. I recently went to a presentation by one of the "Professional" Recruitment Companies not only did he not tell me anything I didn't already learn here, but he was actually mistaken on several of his assertions and I came away convinced I could do a better job by myself based upon the help and advice i get here.
so lets stop the name calling and go back to sharing advice, information, ideas, war stories and now my personal favorite updates on the success of members children in college and professional ball.
"I should also let you know that it is against NCAA rules for a college coach to endorse these things in any publication including message boards. If they could we would have too many endorsements to mention them all. They can talk though and many do. It has worked out well for us. Call the same school and see what they have to say."
To be an accusation that you or the named college Coach committed an NCAA rules violation, but I can see how you could have interpreted it that way. In my experience too many threads end up as fights due to the miscommunication caused by the limitations of this format.
Why don't we end the argument with both organizations put forth a useful service. Participants of both have had good things and bad things to say and it is up to each potential customer to do their own research and decide if it is a venue for their child. To describe the proponents of one as their employees or children who never even attended the event they describe is just plain silly.
Frankly no one here wants to read a back and forth ****ing match that ruins so many threads. Like the vast majority of members I utilize this Message Board as a valuable tool to learn how to best assist my son in chasing his dream. Some posts have been more helpful then others, some have ulterior financial motives but all in all I have obtained a wealth of knowledge from the experiences of these posters that I do not believe I could have gained anyplace else. I recently went to a presentation by one of the "Professional" Recruitment Companies not only did he not tell me anything I didn't already learn here, but he was actually mistaken on several of his assertions and I came away convinced I could do a better job by myself based upon the help and advice i get here.
so lets stop the name calling and go back to sharing advice, information, ideas, war stories and now my personal favorite updates on the success of members children in college and professional ball.
Rounder,
Welcome to the site. I understand that your job prevents you from spending too much time here, but I suggest that when time allows, you review some of PG Staff's past comments. Obviously, you won't be able to read all 6K plus. Just pick any topic of particular interest. I believe you will see a pattern. The pattern I see is a guy who could not possibly be more forthright, fair, insightful, helpful and patient. Every post I read, I am left thinking how well PG Staff handles the balance between his professional position and his willingness to share personal opinions and advice as well as professional experiences. And, yes, he is willing to stand and protect his name and his company when he feels it is appropriate. I don't know PG Staff and don't have any affiliation with PG (nor with HSBBW), nor do countless others on this site who have expressed similar sentiment. I am not saying this to bash you, only to encourage you to gain some additional background and insight that may (or may not?) be helpful should you continue this dialog.
Also, I think that the non-partial information you seek is here if you search. I have done searches on various camps and showcases here and the majority of the posts have come from folks like yourself who have had personal experience with said camp and are willing to share thier experiences for the benefit of others. Thank you for that.
Welcome to the site. I understand that your job prevents you from spending too much time here, but I suggest that when time allows, you review some of PG Staff's past comments. Obviously, you won't be able to read all 6K plus. Just pick any topic of particular interest. I believe you will see a pattern. The pattern I see is a guy who could not possibly be more forthright, fair, insightful, helpful and patient. Every post I read, I am left thinking how well PG Staff handles the balance between his professional position and his willingness to share personal opinions and advice as well as professional experiences. And, yes, he is willing to stand and protect his name and his company when he feels it is appropriate. I don't know PG Staff and don't have any affiliation with PG (nor with HSBBW), nor do countless others on this site who have expressed similar sentiment. I am not saying this to bash you, only to encourage you to gain some additional background and insight that may (or may not?) be helpful should you continue this dialog.
Also, I think that the non-partial information you seek is here if you search. I have done searches on various camps and showcases here and the majority of the posts have come from folks like yourself who have had personal experience with said camp and are willing to share thier experiences for the benefit of others. Thank you for that.
Rounder,
I see you are new to this site. You speak about "researching". Perhaps you should research the person you seem to be attacking, PGStaff. Clearly, you are not aware of who he is, and more importantly, his contributions to this forum. PGStaff has provided invaluable information to all of us. Further, PGStaff is always aware and extremely careful not to say anything negative about anyone or any service.
I see you are new to this site. You speak about "researching". Perhaps you should research the person you seem to be attacking, PGStaff. Clearly, you are not aware of who he is, and more importantly, his contributions to this forum. PGStaff has provided invaluable information to all of us. Further, PGStaff is always aware and extremely careful not to say anything negative about anyone or any service.
quote:Originally posted by Rounder:
- I'd put my money on this post being removed before the later.
Is that comment part of your signature, or are you just continuing to repeat it? If it is the latter, why?
I'd also like to ask you why you register with the intention of of making this subject your sole focus?
Could it be that you have a competing interest and want to impugn a competitor? See how that speculation is coming out of left field when it is not based on anything concrete?
I have been one of the more vocal posters in this thread and have no connection with SB, PG, UA or T96. My son has attended events from all four this past year, and as a result I have come to certain conclusions about each. I and other parents come to this site to learn, and if possible give back to other posters looking to help their sons. So to assume this site is either loaded with staff members of these different organizations, or kids who never even attended these camps is misguided.
I believe the regulars here are pretty savvy and would quickly ferret out anyone looking for self promotion.
You are new to the forum, so I'd suggest you get your feet wet slowly rather than doing a cannonball and getting people all wet until they get a chance to know you.
BTW - Welcome to the forum.
Rounder,
I apologize if you think what I posted was an accusation. I just don't think it was right to post a comment made to you by a coach who you identified by name. Did you tell him you were going to post his name on one of the most popular amateur baseball sites? There is no violation at all because he didn't post anything or do anything wrong.
In addition, we have a very good relationship with the coaches at South Carolina. We see them often throughout the year.
My reply was directed at the accusations YOU made. False accusations at that! I don't like getting involved in these things, but some of the information you posted was flat out wrong and there are people here who know that. Including the owner of the site!
I am the only person that posts here (that I know of) that is a PG staff member. I'm fairly certain that most of our staff never visits this site. That's just the way it is, we don't pay staff to visit or contribute to message boards.
I have no interest in trashing you and you've even said some things about PG that are complimentary. I just don't understand why you are so upset about this. Of course it concerns me and what we do when inaccurate information gets into the public. But why are you so concerned about this topic?
Regarding Showball, say whatever you wish. They very well could be the greatest thing in baseball. I simply don't know, because I've never been to any of the events they hold and I don't know them. For sure I have never suggested that anyone say anything negative on this sight, about anything.
I never planned in being involved in this discussion, I didn't bring up PG in this thread. It's not even something we would consider a competitive situation. We really don't have to downplay anyone, not sure what we would need to do that for. We are actually doing fairly well the way it is. It wouldn't bother me if hundreds of kids decided to go to a certain event.
Many on here compliment Head First. Some have even said it's sometimes a better option than PG Academic events. I can't say anything there either, because I have never been to a Head First event either. But I have to believe they do a great job based on what every one says about them on here. Same goes for the Stanford Camp, Area Codes, East Coast Pro, USA Baseball, etc. Actually I've been to some of those so I do know they are outstanding and I don't mind telling people that. But you will not find me posting anything negative about a team, player, coach or baseball business. If I have, it was a big mistake on my part. And I have never, not once, asked anyone to post anything negative or to promote Perfect Game on this site. That is just the truth.
Sounds like you are very knowledgeable and could contribute in other topics that would be more important to yourself, your son and others. I hope you decide to do that.
I apologize if you think what I posted was an accusation. I just don't think it was right to post a comment made to you by a coach who you identified by name. Did you tell him you were going to post his name on one of the most popular amateur baseball sites? There is no violation at all because he didn't post anything or do anything wrong.
In addition, we have a very good relationship with the coaches at South Carolina. We see them often throughout the year.
My reply was directed at the accusations YOU made. False accusations at that! I don't like getting involved in these things, but some of the information you posted was flat out wrong and there are people here who know that. Including the owner of the site!
I am the only person that posts here (that I know of) that is a PG staff member. I'm fairly certain that most of our staff never visits this site. That's just the way it is, we don't pay staff to visit or contribute to message boards.
I have no interest in trashing you and you've even said some things about PG that are complimentary. I just don't understand why you are so upset about this. Of course it concerns me and what we do when inaccurate information gets into the public. But why are you so concerned about this topic?
Regarding Showball, say whatever you wish. They very well could be the greatest thing in baseball. I simply don't know, because I've never been to any of the events they hold and I don't know them. For sure I have never suggested that anyone say anything negative on this sight, about anything.
I never planned in being involved in this discussion, I didn't bring up PG in this thread. It's not even something we would consider a competitive situation. We really don't have to downplay anyone, not sure what we would need to do that for. We are actually doing fairly well the way it is. It wouldn't bother me if hundreds of kids decided to go to a certain event.
Many on here compliment Head First. Some have even said it's sometimes a better option than PG Academic events. I can't say anything there either, because I have never been to a Head First event either. But I have to believe they do a great job based on what every one says about them on here. Same goes for the Stanford Camp, Area Codes, East Coast Pro, USA Baseball, etc. Actually I've been to some of those so I do know they are outstanding and I don't mind telling people that. But you will not find me posting anything negative about a team, player, coach or baseball business. If I have, it was a big mistake on my part. And I have never, not once, asked anyone to post anything negative or to promote Perfect Game on this site. That is just the truth.
Sounds like you are very knowledgeable and could contribute in other topics that would be more important to yourself, your son and others. I hope you decide to do that.
Well said PG.
Hopefully he will absorb what you and the others said and realize we are all here to contribute to the betterment of young men chasing their dreams. Debates do occur as we all know but in the end it has a way of making people think and do their own research.
YGD
Hopefully he will absorb what you and the others said and realize we are all here to contribute to the betterment of young men chasing their dreams. Debates do occur as we all know but in the end it has a way of making people think and do their own research.
YGD
Yea, I found this site while researching Showball and I'd have to say is all I hear is smack talk and camp bashing on this thread. I think the only thing I can take away from this is to make some more phone calls. I say delete everyone's comments!
BBaller44 -
I just reread the thread and it seems to me that just about all the posts were favorable. Vector was even somewhat favorable and infielddad took him to task for his statement about associate or assistant coaches. No one that I can see stated anything negative. In fact it sounds like a good opportunity that is well run with a lot of coaches and schools in attendence. I never heard of showball before, but after reading this thread I would seriously consider sending my son.
Not sure what you are talking about...
I just reread the thread and it seems to me that just about all the posts were favorable. Vector was even somewhat favorable and infielddad took him to task for his statement about associate or assistant coaches. No one that I can see stated anything negative. In fact it sounds like a good opportunity that is well run with a lot of coaches and schools in attendence. I never heard of showball before, but after reading this thread I would seriously consider sending my son.
Not sure what you are talking about...
BBaller44,
I can't help noticing that you are posting from the same IP number as Rounder.
Rounder,
I'm the owner of this website, and I just wanted to clarify a few points that you made.
Perfect Game does indeed help make this website possible thru a donation each year, but there have never been ANY strings attached to their donation. I had to ask Jerry (PGStaff) 4 or 5 times before he let me put up a banner giving Perfect Game some credit for their sponsorship. He didn't want "advertising", but I said it was unfair that his organization was not recognized for their generosity. He finally said okay.
Thru the 5+ years I have owned the site, I have occasionally contacted Jerry asking if he wanted an untrue, unkind post removed. I contacted him about those few posts NOT because I felt any obligation, but because I've met Jerry and his wife several times, as well as meeting several other staff members at PG, and I know what truly kind and honest people they are. But whenever I asked him, Jerry has always said, "Don't worry about it; please don't give us any special treatment."
Many more of our members know Jerry and the folks at Perfect Game and can vouch for their honesty and integrity. I just wanted to clarify those couple of points.
Julie
I can't help noticing that you are posting from the same IP number as Rounder.
Rounder,
I'm the owner of this website, and I just wanted to clarify a few points that you made.
Perfect Game does indeed help make this website possible thru a donation each year, but there have never been ANY strings attached to their donation. I had to ask Jerry (PGStaff) 4 or 5 times before he let me put up a banner giving Perfect Game some credit for their sponsorship. He didn't want "advertising", but I said it was unfair that his organization was not recognized for their generosity. He finally said okay.
Thru the 5+ years I have owned the site, I have occasionally contacted Jerry asking if he wanted an untrue, unkind post removed. I contacted him about those few posts NOT because I felt any obligation, but because I've met Jerry and his wife several times, as well as meeting several other staff members at PG, and I know what truly kind and honest people they are. But whenever I asked him, Jerry has always said, "Don't worry about it; please don't give us any special treatment."
Many more of our members know Jerry and the folks at Perfect Game and can vouch for their honesty and integrity. I just wanted to clarify those couple of points.
Julie
quote:Originally posted by MN-Mom:
BBaller44,
I can't help noticing that you are posting from the same IP number as Rounder.
Julie
I guess they thought that some of us would actually beleive that 2 posters were doing searches on the same showcase here on the HSBBW..today.
