Approaching college coach on playing time

There's no such thing as a position to lose unless a player is a stud. Every year brings new recruits and a new challenge to holding a position. I've seen kids start for two years and be replaced in the lineup.

How is the kid playing in his place doing?  The coach obviously saw something in the replacement player or he wouldn't have started him.  I find it hard to believe that the coach just surprised the soph on opening day....I've got to think he knew leading up to it that it was happening....and probably has gotten at least some kind of reasoning as to why the change was made. 

As a player, I would think the coach has established a protocol for approaching him about issues.  As the player, I would suggest following it.  That being said, I would approach coach, and ask what areas he feels I need to improve on.

Work hard.

Be better than the other guy.

And all's well.

If you're talking about the player - I think nearly any time is ok - 'cept maybe after a loss or bad day at the office.  Conversation should be about, 'What do I need to do to get better?' and 'What can I do to get more PT?'

 

And then the player should go do it.  Or do his best to do it.

 

If, by some chance, you're talking about a parent - then almost never.  (For me, I think it would be never…or lets say its never happened yet through 2 college playing sons).

 

The college season is VERY young - there will be plenty of lineup changes between now and end of season.

I agree it was the wrong approach to assume it was his position to lose.  My view coincides almost exactly with RJM...and justbaseball!!!  Not only do most players have to earn their spot every year, more than a few of those are earning their spot game to game.

What about your son approaching his position coach and/or the hitting coach?  The HC is making those playing time decisions for a reason.  He might not be willing to discuss playing time at all with your son. He might however be willing to talk about what your son needs to do to get in the line up, or what he is not doing which is keeping him out of the lineup, but I still think the hitting or position coach would be the place to start, if your son truly is in the dark.

Since you asked, my two cents is not to approach the coach at all.  He has already communicated to your son with the lineup card.  Your son knows exactly what it will take to get back into the lineup.  Hit and field better.  Your son already has had 10 opportunities to communicate with the coach.  Encourage him to use his production to communicate his desire for more playing time.  Last year was last year.  He needs to focus on those things under his control (his attitude and effort) and let everything else go that is out of his control (coaches decisions).  There is no entitlement in this game no matter how well last year went.   

Cleveland Dad.

 

I have a similar question but here are the facts with the situation

Son in his second year with a DII school as a pitcher. Saw 10 plus innings as a freshman with one start. Had an ERA of 2.47, (I do realize low inning s low era) but none the less did well.

 

When they returned this year in the fall the team had been loaded with pitchers from local Juco's and some Div I from all over. During the fall with the inter-squads and games that were played the coaches posted a performance chart of how well the pitchers did. Son was second with most K's and the second lowest ERA. His stats were better than the new guys. Now as a second year kid he knew that he knew  bumping one of the starts from the previous season would be a tough road, but he knew he could be a long reliever if needed.

So as he entered this spring season things really took a turn for the worse. The pitchers that were brought in from other schools got immediate starts and the pitchers from previous years were pushed down the rotation into the relief in which pushed my son out of the rotation. I understand the hierarchy of senior players who have worked hard and made the cut and have earned the spots. In which we had one returning starter in the weekend start rotation, he was the best we had four year guy with the school.

Here we are 18 games into the season and the three pitchers that have made the start cannot get past the 2nd or 3rd innings before the original starters(from last year) come in and try and correct the situation.

The closer that was brought in has let four games get away from him with walks and hit batsmen. Losing conference games by walks and HBP seems a little silly to me.

So here is my question.

Son has approached the coaches and the head coach has even said he has done very well in situations with the JV team holding some top Juc's to no hits and no runs in some games that he has pitched to stay sharp. Has approached the coaches in order to get some sort of idea of where he stands and it seems there are no clear answers, but the was told the starters (new guys) were on short leashes and that they were being nipped at by hungry underclassmen that have worked hard and been with the program for two and three years. I have expressed to him to continue to work hard, play hard and stand tall and all things will happen for a reason. It's tough to continually try and keep him pumped up when he see's what is going on, but none the less he is staying on task and working hard.

 

So the shirt leash means what? Wait till the games are getting way out of hand and pull the starters?

Wait till it's to late in making up new rotations and consistently losing games because starters cannot get past the first three innings?

Closers that cannot close and give up 2 and 5 run leads?

Do you wait till the conference playoffs are totally out of reach.

 

I am just wondering what some coaches think?

I watched a conference game against a top rival and the coach for the other team just could not get a pitcher to overcome some bad pitching in one game. He went to the pen 8 times and did not WAIT until the damage was too far out of control.

 

 

seventhinning:

 

Look at the previous responses for your answer. Coaches play the best players -- or, put another way, coaches play the players in whom they have confidence. If your son is not pitching, he has not won the confidence of the coaches for whatever reason. He can talk to them all he wants, but he needs to be careful and judicious or else it could easily backfire on him. The best he can do is to work hard, remain positive and, especially, be prepared for whatever opportunities come his way. You never know when that will be, but I have seen plenty of players -- down on their situations -- fail because they either were not fully prepared for the chance or, perhaps, they just were not good enough.

The time to ask this question is at the end of the Fall or beginning/end of the Spring season not in the middle of the season. 

 

Every situation is different due to the player, team, and coaching dynamics.   I've observed it is wrong to presume coaches use logic in filling out their lineups.    Some coaches put their lineup together based on stats.  Some coaches play hunches.  Some coaches play who's hot in practice.    Some coaches play the kid who's dad is funding the AD or HC's salary.  Some coaches put in experienced upperclassmen over inexperienced underclassmen.  Some coaches play their favorites.  Some coaches play to situations.   The bottom line is you don't know what is going through their heads, and you can't control it.

 

Your son can control what he does and how he does it.  If this really starts eating at him and affecting other aspects of his life (school work, think about quitting the team, etc) then maybe it is time to ask the coach what he needs to do to get more playing time.  He needs to keep in mind that this has the potential to backfire on him.  JMO.

This is a very simple question to answer...

 

How soon is too soon to speak to his professors about those C's that should be A's?

How soon is too soon to speak to his boss about the promotions he's been passed on?

 

 

 

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com

And in my opinion you should never try. These coaches are playing for their livelihood. And no matter what you think they are going to play the best players they perceive will help them remain successful and keep their jobs. Their employment will end if they do not win.

 

I would never expect or put up with a coach questioning what I am doing in my job, so why would I ever question him? And how could he ever have any idea how to do my job?

 

Opportunities will arise for your son to perform during the season; it is baseball after all. He needs to perform when they do.

seventhinningstrecth - those things you list as concerns appear to be outside of your son's and your control.  Worrying about those things will only detract from the task at hand.  Life is unfair and especially baseball.  Maybe the coach is going off the radar gun for the time being and not the stats.  Maybe he is going to give the high velocity guys the long leash even though they can't hit the broad side of the barn for the time being.

 

The best thing you can do for your son is to encourage him.  He cannot control what the coaches decide to do.  He cannot control injustice.  Leave these things to God.  Encourage your son to be ready for one opportunity.  That is all he can control.  Also, as hard as it is, encourage him to root for those kids who are struggling in front of him.  That kind of good vibe has away of turning around as a blessing for your son.  Focus on attitude and effort and leave everything else go.  Those are the keys to success at baseball. 

I totally understand the desire to see your kid play or your son wanting to take the field.  However, the only thing your son can control is his hard work and to display that at his 11th opportunity.  If he's done all he could do and still not taking the field, maybe that's the wrong fit for him.  Approaching the coach about playing time in a whining fashion is a no-go.  However, if he approaches the coach with "coach, can you give me some constructive feedback to improve on", that will let him know what exactly he needs to improve. 

  Leave these things to God.  Encourage your son to be ready for one opportunity.

 

Well said, and I appreciate the responses, and that is exactly what we are doing,

 

The cream will always rise to the top

Coming from a little different prospective I'll share a brief conversation I had once with a coach. My son tried out & made a travel team coached by a former DI college coach (we decided to play for a different team so never played for him). We had a couple of telephone conversations prior to making a decision where he shared some of his coaching philosophies. Forgot how it came up but he told of a player that had done something trivial to irk him. He then sat the player waiting for the player to ask why. As the season went on the player never asked why he wasn't playing so the coach didn't play him. Coach said if the player wasn't interested he wasn't going to play. When the season ended the player moved on. Seemed kind of silly to me but the coach wanted to be asked why.

I'll suggest tweaking this just a bit... "be ready for the NEXT opportunity".  If there is the mindset that there will only be one opportunity, it can become extremely difficult for the player to perform.  Along with "seize the moment" must come some realistic awareness that failure is an ever-present part of baseball.

The next time you watch a college game, take a look at the starters.  Everyone of them was a stud at some point in their career.  Now, take a look at the bench.  Everyone of them was a stud at some point in their career.  That starter had better understand that with the next recruiting class, the coach has done his best to recruit someone better than him.  That's the facts.  My daughter is a junior.  They have recruited several players to take her position.  She understands that if she does not produce they will take her spot.  College coaching is tough.  They work hard to do team bonding but then again, every player knows that every other player on that team is battling for 9 starting spots.  

Part of that is because of turnover.  Coaches can't just assume that kids they bring in as freshman will be around for 4 (or even 3) years.  Kids change schools all the time....baseball related or not.  No coach can possibly bring in a kid and say "You'll start all 4 years and I won't recruit anyone else".  Coaches are there to win.  If you're the top player you'll play....but as CoachB said, it's the coaches job to bring in the best of the best every year.  If a kid is starting this year...and the coach finds someone better to bring in next year he'd be crazy not to do it.  Tough spot for both the kids and the coach, but when your job depends on winning, you've got to do what you can to make sure that happens.

Our team had a bunch of turnover for this year.  We lost 11 or 12 seniors and I believe 5 other guys.  Couple academic and 3 that transferred.  They brought in 5 freshmen and 12 Junior College and D1 transfers.  Very competitive.  If you don't perform, you don't play.  Every year, there will be plenty of guys waiting in line to take your place.  Shoot, in the middle of every season, there are guys waiting to take your spot.  

 

My son is a pitcher and was hoping to be a starter this year.  Did very well during the fall.  At his fall meeting, coaches told him they were looking at him to be a starter and gave him a few things to work on during the break.  Came back and did well in all the intersquads in the spring.  Didn't give up a single run the whole month of January.  Season starts and he is not a starter.  The 3 weekend starters are new guys that are transfers.  He is a conference reliever, which is good, but he still wants to start.

 

I have told him the same thing everyone here is saying.  Hang in there, pitch good when you get in in relief.  Eventually, something will happen and you will get a chance to start.  One of the starters will most likely get a tweak or an injury or one of them will have a string of bad outings and when something like that happens you need to be ready.  I would NEVER hope for one of those things, but, it's baseball and it happens over the course of a long season.  When it does, the next guy needs to step up.  He understands that and has done well in his relief role so far.  

 

That's all you can do.  You never know what's in a coaches mind.  He may just like the way the guy looks.  He may just have a gut feeling about a guy, whatever.  But regardless, the other players need to do everything they can to be a team guy, work on their game and be ready when the opportunity presents itself.  

I know some get upset that a coach brings in JUCOs.  Well, as a player and/or parent, one questions that should have been asked was how much a college coach does this.  Also, things are now changing but most college scholarships are year to year.  Even if you are a starter, you are not guaranteed a spot on the team next year until that coach makes the offer and you accept it.  You might be accepting a scholarship for less than the first or second year.  Yes, players do transfer a lot and it is becoming even more apparent that this trend is increasing.  Go look at various rosters and see how many players are on that roster that have HS and some other college listed. 

 

Per talking to the coach, I didn't address this.  My child's coach sent out a letter to each set of parents and it says on there that he does not expect to talk to any parent unless it is on his terms.

Coach, I'm not upset about it.  It comes with the territory.  I'm just letting some here know about the variables.  The other thing people need to look for is how many kids coaches keep on the roster,  I know it's not an issue at D1 schools because the limit is 35, but for all other levels, there is no limit.  Although my son's D2 school has a lot of JUCO and D1 transfers, they keep their roster reasonable.  There are 30 players on the roster this year, Last year, I believe there were 32.  I have looked at other D2 rosters in our state and surrounding states and some D2 schools have upwards of 40-45 players listed.  That would be another tough situation.  Competing against A LOT more players for a spot.

 

Even if a school brings in all freshmen and have a 30 man roster, the competitiveness remains.  No players spot is guaranteed.  No one comes into any season knowing they automatically have a spot.  Everything is competitive and you better live up to the expectations the coach has for you.  

 

And what you said earlier about EVERYONE on the team being the stud before they got there is spot on as well.  Especially if you are on a competitive, contending team.  Everyone there was "the man" before coming to school there.  It's not easy.  It is a challenge that every player needs to step up to.

When is the right time?

 

For parents, NEVER.

 

For players, I don't think there's ever a bad time to go to the coach and say, "What can I do to earn more playing time?  Where am I coming up short?"

 

I do think players mis-handle this a lot, if their approach is more to blame the coach or to project an air of entitlement. 

 

In reality this is often a concern of parents who are on the outside looking in.  Quite often the player knows full well why someone beat him out.  Player may not want parents to know everything about it.  Player will definitely not want parents to stick their noses in.

bballman, my response was not intentionally directed to you although I see how it looked like that.  That concern with JUCO is something many softball programs go through and so, my daughter's team is no different.  They did not get a JUCO this year.  

 

There are great comments here about the player addressing the problem.  My daughter's coach has an open door with the players and it is a real open door.  We all know that sometimes that statement is made but coaches don't adhere to it or get angry when approached by players.  My daughter loves the coach she is playing for.  He is as upfront with the players as humanly possible.  He is the same at the end of the season when he does his player evaluations with each player.  We should all be so lucky as to have someone like that who isn't afraid of telling a player that it didn't work out and so, maybe it would be better for the player to go elsewhere.  

 

In my case, there is no reason for me to ever talk to the coach.  My child makes a point of going to his office to talk about the team, classes, her goals this season and goals for the team.  Most of the players do as well.  That is how it should be done.

Your son might consider back channels if he has a relationship with an assistant coach. A simple discussion over the situation. It is not at all unusual at this level for a player to have done some small thing that totally turned a coach off and not even know it. An assistant might be able to shed some light without drawing the ire of the HC.

No problem coach.  You've made some good points.  Lots to think about.

 

I personally would never approach the coach with any play time issues.  I may say hello or give a nod of the head or at the most make a non baseball related comment in a social situation, but never talk baseball.  I think players can talk to the coach, but I don't think, at least at this point, my son would.  If he ever approaches me about anything related to play time, I basically just tell him to get better.  I'm much more encouraging and nice about it, but that's the message.  Get better and make the most of your opportunities when you get them.

 

I think some coaches are much more approachable than others.  Some coaches want to keep that distance between them and the players and some want to be closer to them.  I don't have a big problem with either, but it is the way it is.  I think roothog66 makes a good point in that it might be easier to approach an assistant than the head coach at times.  I think the assistants overall might be less inclined to keep that distance.

Thanks to all of you for some great insight and viewpoints!  I have advised my son to go to the coach but he is reluctant for now and I advised him that his conscious will guide him the right way.  

Not sure who said it above, but some coaches make playing decisions based on how the kid looks getting off the bus.  Statistics for some coaches mean nothing, as here are the stats of a D1 starter:

 

SEASON	Avg	GP	GS	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SLG%	BB	HBP	SO	GDP	OB%	SF	SH	SB	PO	A	E	FLD%
2012	.151	28	16	53	5	8	2	0	0	3	.189	8	7	22	2	.338	0	1	0	116	12	2	.985
2013	.222	52	44	158	20	35	10	0	3	20	.342	16	3	56	4	.302	2	6	0	268	38	8	.975
2014	.129	10	9	31	3	4	3	0	0	5	.226	3	1	8	0	.222	1	0	0	49	12	1	.984
Total	.194	90	69	242	28	47	15	0	3	28	.293	27	11	86	6	.300	3	7	0	433	62	11	.978

As a parent. Never when it comes to playing time. As a player every single day. Speak with your work ethic. Your attitude. Your performance. No matter what happens out of your hands it must job impact what is in your hands. Forget the stats, stop trying read it. Put your head down and grind it.

You want to earn playing time? Earn it. Going to a coach as a parent is not an option IMO. Player- Get in there and grind. Don't wait for an opportunity prepare for an opportunity. And the coach is talking with the line up card. You talk with how you react to that line up card.

You are singing to the choir with me Coach May.  Baseball cannot be perfected - even by big leaguers.  Thus, asking the coach what you need to improve upon seems superfluous to me.  Every player needs to improve every day in all aspects of the game.  If you don't find yourself in the lineup, you already have your answer - get better. 

You know how some coaches are against making changes when the team is hot and on a roll.

my 2 random cents. as a coach i don't liket that, 'what should i improve on' line. Everything is the only honest answer... so you mean if i tell you to start hitting shots to the gap you will do it? wow, that was awesome coaching.

I would never advise a kid to use the term PT to a coach, as in, how can i get more PT.

Son, we are here to win games. we are a team. PT is for some NBA guy who has an agent.

Those pitchers that are being past up are usually at the mercy of one thing, a radar gun. I'd bet ya a sausage those new guys light it up a little better, they can't get outs apparently, but they get opportunities because of that little electronic beast.

Good luck to the kids... it does sound like they are doing their job when they get their chance... they just have to hang in there.