I deal with players of all ages.
I don't try to explain what is involved in the swing. I show them the launch. Tell them that gravity will bring the bat down to the ball and 'just swing your hands at the ball'. The rest takes care of itself.
Being raised an RC also, I know exactly what you mean. I would place the unexplainable under Aquinas' proofs for the existence of God. Sometimes we just have to say, "I don't know".
I was called a 'heretic' on a regular basis in high school.
And perhaps in terms of baseball you might now also be termed a heretic
You still have not answered the full question---I didnt say deal with --I asked who do you teach---gravity?
DUH
You still have not answered the full question---I didnt say deal with --I asked who do you teach---gravity?
DUH
As I have said many times, I don't teach, I give tips.
I look at what a player does naturally and suggest variations. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Most often they work.
I spoke with one third baseman in the off season about using the whole field when hitting and forgetting about the short left field. He's had a better year.
I'm not the 'God of Baseball" but I know a few things.
.
I look at what a player does naturally and suggest variations. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Most often they work.
I spoke with one third baseman in the off season about using the whole field when hitting and forgetting about the short left field. He's had a better year.
I'm not the 'God of Baseball" but I know a few things.
.
Quincy
Many of us know a few things but we dont' use the "I have the answer" approach
You are in Tampa are you not?---can you meet us in Jupiter and show us what you know or do not know?
We will find time for you to talk and give "tips" to our kids---can you handle that that? perhaps you can make my coaches smarter
Many of us know a few things but we dont' use the "I have the answer" approach
You are in Tampa are you not?---can you meet us in Jupiter and show us what you know or do not know?
We will find time for you to talk and give "tips" to our kids---can you handle that that? perhaps you can make my coaches smarter
If my health allows I plan to be there.
I'll stop by to say hello.
I'll stop by to say hello.
Your health????
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Your health????
Mental health apparently.
It's one thing to NOT understand physics, it's a wholly other thing to spout **** and claim it's the truth.
Why have some of you people bothered to prolong this this thread. You should know better.
z-
mechanically, there needs to be a "circular" or even tightening handpath from bathead launch/"connection" (connection to uncoiling torso from when coil reverses to contact).
the radius to the center of rotation of the bat needs to avoid getting longer or ther is premature 9before contact) deceleration which screws up timing.
the muscles have to resist the bat flying out
N=man, who has to sprinkle some real stuff in the mix to keep the fog machine going:
http://www.******.com/NEWWEB/best%20of%20max00.htm
"This is where disconnection creates a problem i.e. the player loses connection to the rotational axis just prior to contact i.e. allows the hands to go linear.
"This is what happens with many players who think that extension is simply a matter of allowing the bat to get extended and in so doing actually create an infinite radius of rotation which can be viewed as creating infinite bat rotational inertia (I=M*R*R)....."
and
"As an aside, I never answered a question you asked on another web site (subject was giving up on swing). My interpretation of professor Adair's analysis is that once the center of mass of the bat is allowed to leave the path of the hands, centripetal acceleration (whip effect) will now try to pull the bat out of your hands. The further the center of mass gets from the center of motion (typically the batters spinal column, the greater the force ((V^2/R)*M, where M=mass of bat, V=speed of center of mass and R = distance from center of motion). But V (speed of bat) will decrease as momentum is sucked out of system (system being bodies mass in rotation). The momentum transfer process is instantaneous. The goal is to get the bat head fully extended at the point of bodies maximum momentum (before the limits of muscle travel/force drop off). Once the head of the bat (center of mass) leaves my hand path, a self feeding extension will take place (self feeding because centripetal acceleration is V^2/R and V=R*W, where W=hitters body rotational velocity, thus centripetal acceleration = ((R*W)*(R*W))/R which equals R^2*W^2/R or R*W^2; centripetal acceleration will increase as the radius increases assuming W^2 remains reasonably stable (extend bat at bodies maximum rotational velocity, i.e. bodies maximum rotational momentum)). If the bodies angular momentum (rotational momentum) is significantly larger than the bats extended momentum, the bat head will continue to accelerate outwards rapidly (the radius R, gets bigger, acceleration gets bigger, accelerates faster, etc). The faster I can get the bat head extended, the sooner I reach maximum bat head speed (assuming I am at maximum rotational momentum). So far I have stuck with professor Adair’s model (weight on end of rope).But, if I rely on only the whip effect, I might not get the bat extended before I start to lose momentum because of the body slowing down (reached the limits of muscle travel). Unlike professor Adairs weight on the end of a rope, a bat is rigid. I can assist the bat head getting extended by the wrists pushing the bat head out faster (wrists release in a chopping motion). This helps get the bat head out of my hand path faster, especially at the beginning when the head is just starting out of the path and has only a small centripetal acceleration. This extension, where the arms, wrists are trying to force the bat head out is what I mean by not giving up on the swing (follow through). The batter tries to drive/extend the bat out using his wrists and arms at the same time pulling his back hip around as hard as possible."
mechanically, there needs to be a "circular" or even tightening handpath from bathead launch/"connection" (connection to uncoiling torso from when coil reverses to contact).
the radius to the center of rotation of the bat needs to avoid getting longer or ther is premature 9before contact) deceleration which screws up timing.
the muscles have to resist the bat flying out
N=man, who has to sprinkle some real stuff in the mix to keep the fog machine going:
http://www.******.com/NEWWEB/best%20of%20max00.htm
"This is where disconnection creates a problem i.e. the player loses connection to the rotational axis just prior to contact i.e. allows the hands to go linear.
"This is what happens with many players who think that extension is simply a matter of allowing the bat to get extended and in so doing actually create an infinite radius of rotation which can be viewed as creating infinite bat rotational inertia (I=M*R*R)....."
and
"As an aside, I never answered a question you asked on another web site (subject was giving up on swing). My interpretation of professor Adair's analysis is that once the center of mass of the bat is allowed to leave the path of the hands, centripetal acceleration (whip effect) will now try to pull the bat out of your hands. The further the center of mass gets from the center of motion (typically the batters spinal column, the greater the force ((V^2/R)*M, where M=mass of bat, V=speed of center of mass and R = distance from center of motion). But V (speed of bat) will decrease as momentum is sucked out of system (system being bodies mass in rotation). The momentum transfer process is instantaneous. The goal is to get the bat head fully extended at the point of bodies maximum momentum (before the limits of muscle travel/force drop off). Once the head of the bat (center of mass) leaves my hand path, a self feeding extension will take place (self feeding because centripetal acceleration is V^2/R and V=R*W, where W=hitters body rotational velocity, thus centripetal acceleration = ((R*W)*(R*W))/R which equals R^2*W^2/R or R*W^2; centripetal acceleration will increase as the radius increases assuming W^2 remains reasonably stable (extend bat at bodies maximum rotational velocity, i.e. bodies maximum rotational momentum)). If the bodies angular momentum (rotational momentum) is significantly larger than the bats extended momentum, the bat head will continue to accelerate outwards rapidly (the radius R, gets bigger, acceleration gets bigger, accelerates faster, etc). The faster I can get the bat head extended, the sooner I reach maximum bat head speed (assuming I am at maximum rotational momentum). So far I have stuck with professor Adair’s model (weight on end of rope).But, if I rely on only the whip effect, I might not get the bat extended before I start to lose momentum because of the body slowing down (reached the limits of muscle travel). Unlike professor Adairs weight on the end of a rope, a bat is rigid. I can assist the bat head getting extended by the wrists pushing the bat head out faster (wrists release in a chopping motion). This helps get the bat head out of my hand path faster, especially at the beginning when the head is just starting out of the path and has only a small centripetal acceleration. This extension, where the arms, wrists are trying to force the bat head out is what I mean by not giving up on the swing (follow through). The batter tries to drive/extend the bat out using his wrists and arms at the same time pulling his back hip around as hard as possible."
I think effortless power is a "feel" that comes form a combo of;
1- "good timing" which means hitting max batspeed/"escape velocity"/"release" right at contact
2- contact on sweetspot of bat and near center of ball
3- well matched plane of swing. momentum has direction, direction needs to be lined up for efficient collision of bat and ball
this is the same feel you get in golf when you hit the 'back of the ball' at max clubhead speed on the sweetspot with clbface square to direction of swing plane which results in what golfers call "good compression". this means an effcient collisin that has a particular type of feel you might describe as "effortless power".
1- "good timing" which means hitting max batspeed/"escape velocity"/"release" right at contact
2- contact on sweetspot of bat and near center of ball
3- well matched plane of swing. momentum has direction, direction needs to be lined up for efficient collision of bat and ball
this is the same feel you get in golf when you hit the 'back of the ball' at max clubhead speed on the sweetspot with clbface square to direction of swing plane which results in what golfers call "good compression". this means an effcient collisin that has a particular type of feel you might describe as "effortless power".
quote:I think effortless power is a "feel" that comes form a combo of;
1- "good timing" which means hitting max batspeed/"escape velocity"/"release" right at contact
2- contact on sweetspot of bat and near center of ball
3- well matched plane of swing. momentum has direction, direction needs to be lined up for efficient collision of bat and ball
Tom, I think you've done it.
You have answered the question that has been puzzleing people for years here.
Can we see if we can answer this question.
Whats Faster the speed of Light.
Are the Speed of Dark???
EH
No such thing as the speed of dark, or dark for that matter. Dark is just the absense of light.
quote:No such thing as the speed of dark, or dark for that matter. Dark is just the absense of light.
Are is it that Light is being absorbed by Dark.
Are maybe Dark Parts to allow light to travel through it???
Which would mean it's able to think and move faster then light???
Think about it??
EH
tom, I don't know who you quoted but that man has so many many screwed up concepts of physics that it isn't even funny. Plus he clearly mistakes centrifugal for centripetal force.
Do you want an easy way to prove this? Think of riding a bicycle in a circle. Your feet can only pedal the bike in a straight line. Yet you can alter the path of the bike by applying energy via the steering. Is there any inward centripetal force? Of course not, the axis is imaginary just like in a bat swing.
So for the last time, centripetal force has absolutely nothing to do with a bat swing.
P.S. Yes, this thread should have been done long time ago so I'll leave this to the quacks.
Do you want an easy way to prove this? Think of riding a bicycle in a circle. Your feet can only pedal the bike in a straight line. Yet you can alter the path of the bike by applying energy via the steering. Is there any inward centripetal force? Of course not, the axis is imaginary just like in a bat swing.
So for the last time, centripetal force has absolutely nothing to do with a bat swing.
P.S. Yes, this thread should have been done long time ago so I'll leave this to the quacks.
Z-Dad,
Again you exhibit your lack of understanding.
In your example there is no string to create the tension necessary.
Charlatan indeed.
It is better to remain quiet so that people may suspect that you are a fool rather than to speak and remove any doubts they may have had.
.
Again you exhibit your lack of understanding.
In your example there is no string to create the tension necessary.
Charlatan indeed.
It is better to remain quiet so that people may suspect that you are a fool rather than to speak and remove any doubts they may have had.
.
quote:So for the last time, centripetal force has absolutely nothing to do with a bat swing.
P.S. Yes, this thread should have been done long time ago so I'll leave this to the quacks.
Z-Dad, my area of interest does not include the meaning of "centripetal" force, however, one thing I'm sure of.......Tom is no "quack" as it pertains to his knowledge of throwing or hitting a baseball.....He knows of what he speaks, at least in this arena of things...
Just a thought from a quack.....
z-
see wikipedia for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force
you have to use the muscles to overcome the inertia of the bat that otherwise will fly off/not keep turning turn from the path it is on. that is a centripetal force.
ball on string type mechanics apply to the "rotational component" of the swing.
the swing also has a handle torque component. that's where things start to get controversial.
see wikipedia for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force
you have to use the muscles to overcome the inertia of the bat that otherwise will fly off/not keep turning turn from the path it is on. that is a centripetal force.
ball on string type mechanics apply to the "rotational component" of the swing.
the swing also has a handle torque component. that's where things start to get controversial.
quote:Originally posted by tom.guerry:
the swing also has a handle torque component. that's where things start to get controversial.
I sure would like for someone to show me this in a video or frame by frame. I think I know what you are talking about, but from one person to the next it seems to change a little. In the Albert Pujols frame by frame, which frame does it start and when does it finish?
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
It all comes together in circular motion (the swing).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_motion
.
Quincy,
Are you talking about the bat being in a centripetal force or the core of the body? I just don't see how anyone can think the energy in a swing as far as the bat is concerned could be moving toward the center.
Centripetal force in this case is caused by rotation.
The body or core rotates.
Linear motion is created by the arms and weight shift.
(arms being hands, forearms, wrists and triceps primarily)
String tension is created and maintained by the arms.
The bat is trying to move away from the body due to the linear motion created.
The arms, holding the bat not allowing it to escape, are exerting a string tension that causes the bat to follow the rotation of the core.
Since the bat cannot escape, it is moving toward center in its circular path while still trying to escape.
If you consider that a circle is 360 degrees, at each degree of change in the circular path centripetal accelleration and angular accelleration are increasing the speed of the bat in motion.
Since the core only rotates approximately one quarter turn and stops, the forearms, hands and wrists are left to maintain control of the bat in motion.
Since the bat speed is so great, it causes the wrists to break (or uncock).
Follow through, decelleration and maintaining the swing path are left to the hands, wrists and forearms.
.
The body or core rotates.
Linear motion is created by the arms and weight shift.
(arms being hands, forearms, wrists and triceps primarily)
String tension is created and maintained by the arms.
The bat is trying to move away from the body due to the linear motion created.
The arms, holding the bat not allowing it to escape, are exerting a string tension that causes the bat to follow the rotation of the core.
Since the bat cannot escape, it is moving toward center in its circular path while still trying to escape.
If you consider that a circle is 360 degrees, at each degree of change in the circular path centripetal accelleration and angular accelleration are increasing the speed of the bat in motion.
Since the core only rotates approximately one quarter turn and stops, the forearms, hands and wrists are left to maintain control of the bat in motion.
Since the bat speed is so great, it causes the wrists to break (or uncock).
Follow through, decelleration and maintaining the swing path are left to the hands, wrists and forearms.
.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
Centripetal force in this case is caused by rotation.
The body or core rotates.
Linear motion is created by the arms and weight shift.
(arms being hands, forearms, wrists and triceps primarily)
String tension is created and maintained by the arms.
The bat is trying to move away from the body due to the linear motion created.
The arms, holding the bat not allowing it to escape, are exerting a string tension that causes the bat to follow the rotation of the core.
Since the bat cannot escape, it is moving toward center in its circular path while still trying to escape.
If you consider that a circle is 360 degrees, at each degree of change in the circular path centripetal accelleration and angular accelleration are increasing the speed of the bat in motion.
Since the core only rotates approximately one quarter turn and stops, the forearms, hands and wrists are left to maintain control of the bat in motion.
Since the bat speed is so great, it causes the wrists to break (or uncock).
Follow through, decelleration and maintaining the swing path are left to the hands, wrists and forearms.
.
So, you are saying that the top hand doesn't uncock the wrists?
quote:Since the bat speed is so great, it causes the wrists to break (or uncock).
In order for the top hand to cause the wrists to uncock, the top hand would have to be moving faster than the speed of the bat.
If in fact one were to uncock the wrists using the top hand, the swing would be slow enough for it to do so. Thus since the swing is slower it would have less effect on contact.
.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:quote:Since the bat speed is so great, it causes the wrists to break (or uncock).
In order for the top hand to cause the wrists to uncock, the top hand would have to be moving faster than the speed of the bat.
If in fact one were to uncock the wrists using the top hand, the swing would be slow enough for it to do so. Thus since the swing is slower it would have less effect on contact.
.
Is this an AFLAC commercial? I'm speechless now. If you can, get a clip of Tony Gwynn, Jr. hitting the ball down the rt. field line the other night for the game tieing hit against the Padres and tell me that again after you've seen it.
If you look at the clip, Gwynn is holding his hands on the bat while the bat uncocks the wrists.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1...rl=&type=v_sub&_mp=1
.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1...rl=&type=v_sub&_mp=1
.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
If you look at the clip, Gwynn is holding his hands on the bat while the bat uncocks the wrists.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1...rl=&type=v_sub&_mp=1
.
Thanks for getting the clip! If his top hand is not pushing/throwing the bathead through, then it is impossible to have a check swing. If you pause the clip right on the edge of the orange box in the bottom left hand corner, you will see th knob pointed directly at the ball. Now, if you asked him how he got the bat head to the ball, what do you think he would say?
Consider that he throws the bat into the swing at the ball.
Once the bat is in motion, he continues to look at the ball through contact.
He allows the bat to uncock the wrists while he is still looking at the ball.
In this type of swing, there are no check swings since it allows the extra fraction of a second to decide wether or not he is going to swing at all.
Trusting his swing, he looks at the pitch, determines the speed and location and swings.
Notice how he maintains the same swing plane (for lack of a better term) through contact.
.
Once the bat is in motion, he continues to look at the ball through contact.
He allows the bat to uncock the wrists while he is still looking at the ball.
In this type of swing, there are no check swings since it allows the extra fraction of a second to decide wether or not he is going to swing at all.
Trusting his swing, he looks at the pitch, determines the speed and location and swings.
Notice how he maintains the same swing plane (for lack of a better term) through contact.
.
quote:In order for the top hand to cause the wrists to uncock, the top hand would have to be moving faster than the speed of the bat.
Rethink that. Not disagreeing with all of what you've said, but the second part of this sentence is not accurate.
agree with noreast here.
If the bat is turning about a center that starts close to the knob abd shrinks to a point between the hands, the top hand does not have to move much since it's close to the center of rotation.
What the muscles do here is very automated and complex.
My best guess is that the back scap stays pinched to the spine so the shoulders rotate without disconection while, approaching contact, first there is extension widening tha angle at the back elbow as the back forearm supinates, then there is flexion of the back arm or less resistance to flexing the back arm so the back elbow comes away from the slot before contact on the more outside pitch (stays in slot until contact for inside).
This arm action gives the unbroken top wrist feel that Williams described which is a control mechanism
for the timing of uncoiling of the torso so that release/ascape velocity is right at contact.
As Williams said, a swing can work fine if the top hand wrist is unbroken at or breaks only at contact.
If the bat was/is causing the arms to passively come with it as it does after "relelase", then you see immediate deceleration and the lead arm chickenwing/extend/lift at the lead shoulder.
If the bat is turning about a center that starts close to the knob abd shrinks to a point between the hands, the top hand does not have to move much since it's close to the center of rotation.
What the muscles do here is very automated and complex.
My best guess is that the back scap stays pinched to the spine so the shoulders rotate without disconection while, approaching contact, first there is extension widening tha angle at the back elbow as the back forearm supinates, then there is flexion of the back arm or less resistance to flexing the back arm so the back elbow comes away from the slot before contact on the more outside pitch (stays in slot until contact for inside).
This arm action gives the unbroken top wrist feel that Williams described which is a control mechanism
for the timing of uncoiling of the torso so that release/ascape velocity is right at contact.
As Williams said, a swing can work fine if the top hand wrist is unbroken at or breaks only at contact.
If the bat was/is causing the arms to passively come with it as it does after "relelase", then you see immediate deceleration and the lead arm chickenwing/extend/lift at the lead shoulder.
As stated, what the muscles do here is very automated and complex.
But what remains is that the speed of the bat and force in the swing is what uncocks the wrists.
The hands and wrists are holding onto the bat to maintain string tension which causes the bat to continue in the circular path.
Isn't this a description of the follow through and decelleration.
Of course, as Williams stated, a swing can work fine if the top hand wrist is unbroken at or breaks only at contact, it is still not the optimum swing.
While it is true that the wrists would never have uncocked if turned by the top hand, I used the term to attempt to keep things simple.
.
But what remains is that the speed of the bat and force in the swing is what uncocks the wrists.
The hands and wrists are holding onto the bat to maintain string tension which causes the bat to continue in the circular path.
quote:If the bat was/is causing the arms to passively come with it as it does after "relelase", then you see immediate deceleration and the lead arm chickenwing/extend/lift at the lead shoulder.
Isn't this a description of the follow through and decelleration.
Of course, as Williams stated, a swing can work fine if the top hand wrist is unbroken at or breaks only at contact, it is still not the optimum swing.
quote:In order for the top hand to cause the wrists to uncock, the top hand would have to be moving faster than the speed of the bat.
While it is true that the wrists would never have uncocked if turned by the top hand, I used the term to attempt to keep things simple.
.
quote:Originally posted by tom.guerry:
agree with noreast here.
If the bat is turning about a center that starts close to the knob abd shrinks to a point between the hands, the top hand does not have to move much since it's close to the center of rotation.
I agree. There is not much movement of the hands at all in the swing, but they do have to move to be effective. The only practicle analogy I can think of to explain it is, pushing someone on a swing. You use your wrists and fingers to push the person faster, even though they are already moving yet in reality the wrists and fingers move very little as far as distance goes.
What the muscles do here is very automated and complex.
My best guess is that the back scap stays pinched to the spine so the shoulders rotate without disconection while, approaching contact, first there is extension widening tha angle at the back elbow as the back forearm supinates, then there is flexion of the back arm or less resistance to flexing the back arm so the back elbow comes away from the slot before contact on the more outside pitch (stays in slot until contact for inside).
This arm action gives the unbroken top wrist feel that Williams described which is a control mechanism
for the timing of uncoiling of the torso so that release/ascape velocity is right at contact.
As Williams said, a swing can work fine if the top hand wrist is unbroken at or breaks only at contact.
Yes, it breaks there, but it starts to uncock well before then.
If the bat was/is causing the arms to passively come with it as it does after "relelase", then you see immediate deceleration and the lead arm chickenwing/extend/lift at the lead shoulder.
Chameleon,
The approaches that we have presented sound very much the same.
I thank you for being able to explain the mechanical advantage in a more understandable fashion.
.
The approaches that we have presented sound very much the same.
I thank you for being able to explain the mechanical advantage in a more understandable fashion.
.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
Chameleon,
The approaches that we have presented sound very much the same.
According to you maybe.
But to me - they dont sound even remotely similar.
Chameleon is a spunky monkey - but his posts on hitting are some of the best we have ever had here IMO.
On the other hand - your posts seem to belie the fact that you have never really played the game.
Just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
Very interesting thread.
And while I use different words and may not agree with every detail of Quincy's description, I believe I "feel" what he feels.
Here is a great example of two of the best ever...."swinging before the foot gets down".
I wouldn't go as far to say contact is at touchdown.....but I know what he means. There is a large difference between "feel" and "looks". What a hitter feels compared to how it looks on video.
I would say....the launch of their swing puts their foot down. The foot isn't down first...then swing. And, the swing is so quick that "feel" wise it feels almost simutaneous.
And....if you want to be successful....you better be teaching feel....because that is what the hitter must deal with "in the box".
Notice neither of these two hitters use the Epstein "toe touch to heel drop" to launch their hips. Their hips launch as soon as they pick up their stride foot. Rotation begins at that moment. It is NOT a "firing" of the hip. There is NOT a defined moment of aggressive hip turn. There IS a stretching that occurs as they open the hips. There is a crescendo of the hip turn....that stretches and stretches and stretches...until it's so tight that the hitter must release. This stretching is countered by the upper body which has a "hold" on the system. A hold that in fact is going rearward as they turn the barrel rearward. While the "hold" is in effect...the stretching gets tighter and tighter. And when the hitter finally says "go"...the stretch is released and the bat is whipped through the zone. This IS the mechanical advantage that the highest level swingers use.
A great example would be if a hitter had a bungee cord on his wrists and someone was behind him holding the other bungee cord end. At the moment just BEFORE "go"...if the "holder" released the cord you would have two different results depending on the mechanics they use. In the toe touch/heel droppers...the don't swing until the front foot is down hitters....the cord would simply drop toward the ground with a slight forward movement. That hitter has tightened the bungee cord just to remove slack and he's waiting for "go" to accelerate the bat and thereby create a large pull on the cord.....he's waiting to "fire" the hips....he's waiting to apply his brute force rotation. The extent of his "slack removal prior to swinging" is limited to just making the bungee cord taught...tight. He doesn't keep stretching it beyond that.
In the highest level swingers....when the holder releases the bungee cord....remember I'm speaking of the moment BEFORE "go"....the cord would be aggressively yanked forward because of the stretch that the highest level hitters have going on BEFORE launch.
Their launch more resembles a release (although there is a WAY to do that optimally) than it does a sudden application of force to move the barrel.
Now...what does the video show? It will show what appears to be the "sudden application of force" as if brute strength rotation is being applied. I maintain that is nonsense. It is WAY too slow developing. What is happening is a sudden speed up of the body but only because the hold has been released.
And Quincy's experience of taking a young hitter and teaching this process and seeing an immediate difference mirrors my experience. The kid is not suddenly stronger. His vision didn't suddenly get better. But, he did suddenly get a mechanical advantage. The "stretch and fire" mechanics and their differences (to what most believe occurs) was first taught to me by Donny Buster....Swingbuster.....an often misunderstood hitting genius.
All other attempts to swing with what I call "brute force rotation" are suboptimal. You can find mlb players that do that. Several of them. Some of them quite good. But that speaks to their athletic ability....not their mechanics.
The very best use the highest level mechanics. And I believe Quincy is doing a fairly good job of describing them.
And he is absolutely right when he says...."get in the box and try it".
Most of you have never experienced what he's describing. And, until you do, you're short changing yourself.
P.S. PGStaff......have your sons been taught to put their stride foot down first when pitching and then drop the heel and rotate? I think not. There is a definite rotation into footplant. The hitting move is identical........and the upper body's control over it.....over the release of it....at precisely the right moment....is how the great hitters deal with all the different pitch speeds, directions, and locations. Their swing launch is instantaneous. It simply has to be. And this hips opening creating stretch that is controlled by the upper body until release is the ONLY way to do it optimally.
Waiting for touchdown to drop the heel so as to do all that has to be done in .2 seconds AND cover the zone is what all you nay sayers are asking.
And it is simply impossible to do.
That may be your opinion and you are welcome to it.
Had I never played, I wouldn't know the results of the method. I'm just not presenting it well apparently.
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Quincy,
In your words:
"Had I never played, I wouldn't know the results of the method. I'm just not presenting it well apparently."
What was your playing experience? What was the highest level you played at?
In your words:
"Had I never played, I wouldn't know the results of the method. I'm just not presenting it well apparently."
What was your playing experience? What was the highest level you played at?
Awfully quiet in here...
With the exceptions of the personal attacks, this thread has been the subject of very good debate.
We have seen that people with balance issues tend to lunge in a very high speed swing or cannot control the bat at such speeds.
We have also compared techniques that believe that all facets of the swing are conscious movements as well as others who believe that the great majority of the swing is reflexive and subconcious.
We have also compared the flat bat into the zone as compared to the circular path through the zone.
We have addressed issues of strong front side with the loss of balance and power on off speed pitches as compared to weak front side with the ability to stay back longer on the off speed pitch.
We touched on the duration of the pitch to the plate, the duration of pitch recognition and duration of the swing after pitch recognition.
.
We have seen that people with balance issues tend to lunge in a very high speed swing or cannot control the bat at such speeds.
We have also compared techniques that believe that all facets of the swing are conscious movements as well as others who believe that the great majority of the swing is reflexive and subconcious.
We have also compared the flat bat into the zone as compared to the circular path through the zone.
We have addressed issues of strong front side with the loss of balance and power on off speed pitches as compared to weak front side with the ability to stay back longer on the off speed pitch.
We touched on the duration of the pitch to the plate, the duration of pitch recognition and duration of the swing after pitch recognition.
.
Quincy,
This obviously has been an extremely popular thread that has talked about many many different things. There have been hundreds of posts on here, and you should be proud of that.
If my asking what about your playing experience is a personal attack, I'll take that as an answer myself. Again, I am just looking for a straight answer. If you want me to start another thread for "Asking Quincy" I will, but it was just a question. Not a personal attack.
This obviously has been an extremely popular thread that has talked about many many different things. There have been hundreds of posts on here, and you should be proud of that.
If my asking what about your playing experience is a personal attack, I'll take that as an answer myself. Again, I am just looking for a straight answer. If you want me to start another thread for "Asking Quincy" I will, but it was just a question. Not a personal attack.
