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Basic Batsmanship

W wogdoggy500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by micmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by theEH:
Yes for a right handed on a inside to middle of the plate would be your right arm.
But on an outside pitch your power arm would become in part your Left arm.
Think about it??
I believe it's switches to your left arm the farther you get from the plate.
Maybe not a lot of power.
But more then your Right arm.
EH




Nope! Not in my opinion. The bottom hand is a guide and lever only, the top hand, forearm and wrist, provide the power.



pitch location doesnt make one arm stand out over the other,,the top is the power hand..with the outside pitch you let it get deeper and dont rotate as far..i love the outside high pitch to right field..love getting the meat of the barrel on the ball
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
Some people are easily confused.

If you have been reading the thread I have said that the lack of a video of a perfect swing means nothing.

Some people get it and some don't. The application is simple but so simple that people have a tendency to attempt to complicate it.

I have made the description so clear and simple from the start that the only way that any misunderstanding could come into play would be when others interject their thinking over the suggestion.

Tampa is just over the causeway bridge or a few other methods of transportation from Clearwater, but then so is St Pete and the rest of the country.

I've been over there plenty of times watching games and work outs, but I've also been to Orlando, Jupiter and Ft Myers among other places for baseball.

.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by wogdoggy:
quote:
Originally posted by micmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by theEH:
Yes for a right handed on a inside to middle of the plate would be your right arm.
But on an outside pitch your power arm would become in part your Left arm.
Think about it??
I believe it's switches to your left arm the farther you get from the plate.
Maybe not a lot of power.
But more then your Right arm.
EH




Nope! Not in my opinion. The bottom hand is a guide and lever only, the top hand, forearm and wrist, provide the power.



pitch location doesnt make one arm stand out over the other,,the top is the power hand..with the outside pitch you let it get deeper and dont rotate as far..i love the outside high pitch to right field..love getting the meat of the barrel on the ball




I agree!
T theEH1,000+ posts
quote:
In your opinion, which forearm and wrist brings the bathead through?


My feeling for a left handed batter.
That on an inside pitch.
The left arm is driving while the right arm is pulling through the zone.
On the Outside pitch, and the farther you go to the outside.
You lose the drive in your left arm, and must be made up by your right arm to continue the power of your at bat to the opposite field.
I hope your not confused by this post.
EH
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Quincy:
There is no power arm.

The role of the arms in the swing after putting the bat in motion is in maintaining string tension (holding onto the bat in its circular or parabolic path).

Muscles only contract when flexed.

In a rapid swing, there is only one flex and that is in starting the bat in motion.

.




Okay Quincy, I'll ask you the same questions I asked Chameleon and Bluedog that didn't get answered. If, as you say, the arms do nothing (except hold onto the bat) after they put the bat in motion, why would you need to hold onto the bat with your top hand once it got moving? If stopped, the bottom hand holding the bat will keep it in a circular path.

http://chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Profes..._AlbertPujols_02.pdf

How does Al get to contact position from photo number 20??? Can he let go of his top hand at this point??? To say that the arms are just along for the ride in a swing after first flex is like saying, when you bench press, once you explode the weight off your chest, the arms are just along for the ride. Get yourself under 300 pounds and give this theory a try.
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
He could let go with either hand by frame 22.

As long as he can maintain string tension (hold onto the bat) through the wrist break (or uncocking), the bat will hit the ball just as hard.

The reason that two hands are better is because the centripetal force would be more than one hand could handle.

This is pointed out in frame 26 of the .pdf.

Concerning the bench press, I stopped using weights when I weighed 150 lbs. My biceps were getting too large and I was losing range of motion.

In exploding my arms upward with 250 lbs, this same theory applies because I never had the full force of the weight in my hands again until it reached the top of the press.

What others are endorsing would be similar to stopping in the press at different stages to concentrate on various muscles.

This calls for more effort and less movement.

.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:
quote:
If, as you say, the arms do nothing (except hold onto the bat) after they put the bat in motion


Jumping to conclusions aren't you?




No, that's what he said. Do you also agree that Pujols could let go of both hands by frame 22 and it would have no effect on how hard the ball was hit? If so, why do broken bat shots usually end up in flares or weak ground balls and why do the hands continue through the swing with no bat to pull them through?
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by theEH:
There's a point of contact.
Do you understand the point of contact,
Thats when the bat hits the ball.

Try having just one arm on the bat with a 95mph fastball with movement, at point of contact??
EH




You're agreeing with me, right? That if you hit that 95mph fastball with one hand, the bat will give? IMO, you would have to have arms the size of legs and some serious grip pressure to keep that from happening.
T theEH1,000+ posts
Yes, you would.
The core is the key.
A solid core starts with the feet through the thighs and then to the core.
A big butt doesn't hurt.
Its like a counter weight.
All that is needed for inertia, and torque.
The arms and hands control the bat.
With out all, plus hand eye cordination and muscle memory.
Not counting pitch recognition.
EH
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
He could let go with either hand by frame 22.

As long as he can maintain string tension (hold onto the bat) through the wrist break (or uncocking), the bat will hit the ball just as hard.


No, that's what he said. Do you also agree that Pujols could let go of both hands by frame 22 and it would have no effect on how hard the ball was hit?

The reason that two hands are better is because the centripetal force would be more than one hand could handle.

This is pointed out in frame 26 of the .pdf.

why do the hands continue through the swing with no bat to pull them through?

They don't.
Last edited by Quincy
T theEH1,000+ posts
Has anybody ever swung a sledge hammer that weighed 12#s or more.
Swung it in a Horitzonal plain. And hit something solid like let's say Steel?
The impact is partially
Absorbed by the hands and arms through the shoulders.
So at point of impact the arms are basicly stopped.
But the ball isn't a solid non movable object.
Your core and arms can only go so far, before it starts meeting resistence.
That is way past point of impact.
EH
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by theEH:
Your core and arms can only go so far, before it starts meeting resistence.
That is way past point of impact.
EH


I'm not understanding your use of the term 'resistance'. It seems that you are saying that the bat slows as the result of the limited range of motion of the core and arms past the point of contact putting the strain on the hands.

In reality, the greatest strain is put on the hands at wrist break (or uncocking) when the bat velocity doubles, quadrupling centripetal force in the swing. This should happen just before contact.

.
Last edited by Quincy
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
Would you think that we limit the movement of the core (weight shift, shoulder and hip rotation, legs) intentionally?

Usually a quarter turn of the hips and shoulders is all it takes, even though their range of motion is greater.

Stopping the turn is also a balance aid.

This is done to start the bat slowing. The hands get the last bit of energy produced to dissipate.

We create resistance in the swing on purpose after contact.

.
Last edited by Quincy
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
TR,

Probably through an interpreter.

How is the weather up your way? I hear there are a few talented kids playing in the New Haven Series.
Last I heard you guys were expecting rain.

Mic,

Bat whip is caused by a combination of weight shift, hip turn and forearm flex.

Uncocking is the result of the weight in motion of the bat head.

.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Quincy:

It is actually constant accelleration until the end of the turn and wrist break (or uncocking).
.




Finally! You said it! Thank you! "CONSTANT-ACCELERATION-until the end of the turn and wrist break." In a vehicle, GAS or ELECTRICITY are the fuels and the accelerator is the regulator tied to the operator. If you take your foot off of the accelerator, the car will slow. In hitting, the top hand, wrist, fingers, forearm are the accellerators and strength in these parts are the fuel. If strength in these parts is not important (and if they are only along for the ride, they wouldn't be) then why is there a problem with someone taking steroids??? Why would hitters need to do anything other than core exercises? If the arms are just along for the ride and I am not pulling and pushing with my arms, why can I not just hold my arms loosely towards the Catcher, fire my hips and have my arms go flying forward?
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Quincy:
.

Mic,

Bat whip is caused by a combination of weight shift, hip turn and forearm flex.

Uncocking is the result of the weight in motion of the bat head.

.




So, at what point in his swing does Pujols stop "flexing" his forearm? Which forearm, by the way, is he flexing??? How does he flex his forearm??? I can flex mine by just squeezing my hand or by moving my wrist, but the maximum flex is when I do both at the same time.
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
quote:
Finally! You said it! Thank you! "CONSTANT-ACCELERATION-until the end of the turn and wrist break."


I've been saying this all along

quote:
In hitting, the top hand, wrist, fingers, forearm are the accellerators and strength in these parts are the fuel.


They are the accellerators initially. Once the bat is in motion, it flows at that speed until wrist uncocking without additional exertion.


quote:
If strength in these parts is not important


I have never said that strength in these areas is not important.

quote:
If the arms are just along for the ride and I am not pulling and pushing with my arms, why can I not just hold my arms loosely towards the Catcher, fire my hips and have my arms go flying forward?


In reality, you could but not get as much bat speed or control.

quote:
So, at what point in his swing does Pujols stop "flexing" his forearm? Which forearm, by the way, is he flexing??? How does he flex his forearm??? I can flex mine by just squeezing my hand or by moving my wrist, but the maximum flex is when I do both at the same time.


He flexes both forearms and wrists at the same time. The triceps actually start the bat moving.

.
Last edited by Quincy
W wogdoggy500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by micmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by Quincy:

It is actually constant accelleration until the end of the turn and wrist break (or uncocking).
.




Finally! You said it! Thank you! "CONSTANT-ACCELERATION-until the end of the turn and wrist break." In a vehicle, GAS or ELECTRICITY are the fuels and the accelerator is the regulator tied to the operator. If you take your foot off of the accelerator, the car will slow. In hitting, the top hand, wrist, fingers, forearm are the accellerators and strength in these parts are the fuel. If strength in these parts is not important (and if they are only along for the ride, they wouldn't be) then why is there a problem with someone taking steroids??? Why would hitters need to do anything other than core exercises? If the arms are just along for the ride and I am not pulling and pushing with my arms, why can I not just hold my arms loosely towards the Catcher, fire my hips and have my arms go flying forward?



Why would hitters need to do anything other than core exercises? If the arms are just along for the ride and I am not pulling and pushing with my arms, why can I not just hold my arms loosely towards the Catcher, fire my hips and have my arms go flying forward?


if you think the arms and hands are just along for the ride,you will only hit a minimal of balls on the sweet spot..hold your hands and arms still and just tilt and see how well you do..if the arms didnt mean anything why do half these players have arms like popeye?
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by wogdoggy:
quote:
Originally posted by micmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by Quincy:

It is actually constant accelleration until the end of the turn and wrist break (or uncocking).
.




Finally! You said it! Thank you! "CONSTANT-ACCELERATION-until the end of the turn and wrist break." In a vehicle, GAS or ELECTRICITY are the fuels and the accelerator is the regulator tied to the operator. If you take your foot off of the accelerator, the car will slow. In hitting, the top hand, wrist, fingers, forearm are the accellerators and strength in these parts are the fuel. If strength in these parts is not important (and if they are only along for the ride, they wouldn't be) then why is there a problem with someone taking steroids??? Why would hitters need to do anything other than core exercises? If the arms are just along for the ride and I am not pulling and pushing with my arms, why can I not just hold my arms loosely towards the Catcher, fire my hips and have my arms go flying forward?



Why would hitters need to do anything other than core exercises? If the arms are just along for the ride and I am not pulling and pushing with my arms, why can I not just hold my arms loosely towards the Catcher, fire my hips and have my arms go flying forward?


if you think the arms and hands are just along for the ride,you will only hit a minimal of balls on the sweet spot..hold your hands and arms still and just tilt and see how well you do..if the arms didnt mean anything why do half these players have arms like popeye?




I agree, I just can't get Quincy, Bluedog and Chameleon to admit that. I'm going to have to have my Daughter/Mechanical Engineer to figure out the weight to motion difference in two moving objects that collide while coming from opposite directions.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
wogdoddy

It was a very simple question---I think the MLB hitters would laugh at all the terms being used---use them with Manny or Vlad or Ichiro or Say hey Willie and see what response you get

Not belittling anyone doggy---just trying to make it "real"

There is no need for engineers to be figuring this out--- hitting a baseball is a natural act for some and not for others---we are getting too scientific with regard to the game. It isnt that difficult if you just go out and play it
W wogdoggy500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
wogdoddy

It was a very simple question---I think the MLB hitters would laugh at all the terms being used---use them with Manny or Vlad or Ichiro or Say hey Willie and see what response you get

Not belittling anyone doggy---just trying to make it "real"

There is no need for engineers to be figuring this out--- hitting a baseball is a natural act for some and not for others---we are getting too scientific with regard to the game. It isnt that difficult if you just go out and play it



i agree with you on that
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