Bonds Indicted

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
2seamer....See you stalking me on these boards again.

Get a life.

You go, Barry.

Stalking you? Don't flatter yourself. You've just got a history over the last couple of years of making dumb comments concerning the entire Bonds saga.

As one of a few here that used to make insightful posts, your comments used to carry credibility with many posters. Over time, you've lost that..preferring instead to make snide personal attacks, then deleting your posts.

This is a board that has a wide range of readers..some experienced, some that are "wide-eyed" at how much they have to learn, and kids that are impressionable, and don't have a clue.

This is a serious topic, with ramifications for kids of all ages, ranging from butterfly chasing tee-ballers, to those trying to make the HS team, to those trying to make it out of Rookie Ball.

If you've got some useful content to provide, then by all means, please do. If you want to be a snide, bitter know-it-all...then expect to be called on it.

"You go Barry"...if you lied to the Grand Jury, then you go...straight to jail..

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by H1: "just lied (to a Grand Jury, while under oath)".
Can't speak for anyone else, but that's a big deal to me.

ok, but that's "allegedly lied to a grand jury" in Bonds case

wasn't congress hearing under oath?
and hasn't it been confirmed those guys lied?



perhaps congress doesn't want to start pointing fingers at liers, it could come back to bite 'em in the azz

McGwire didn't lie, he didn't answer, and Sosa couldn't "Habla Ingles".

They were under oath, and after Palmeiro tested positive, there was thought given to charging him with perjury. However, his positive test was after the hearing, so they couldn't conclusively prove that he'd used steroids prior to the hearing.

If they could've..he would've been charged.

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Dad....He's been charged, no more no less.

I remember being on the boards when the two writers failed to divulge their sources for the leak of the Grand Jury transcripts so they could write their book...in jail for 2 years. Most of the people on the board defended them.

Let the scenario play out with Barry.

Everyone knew that OJ did it, too. Except the people that mattered didn't believe it.

I defended those writers. They got a story out that MLB was trying to gloss over. The funny thing is, the leak that provided them with the info was on either the Bonds or Balco defense team. I'd imagine that they were probably fed up with his smugness and feeling of invincibility.

It's always in vogue to attack the messenger. You and a couple of your "foxhole buddies" fired shots constantly at Jose Canseco for writing his book, too. The truth is, the publicity surrounding Canseco's book is probably the first step taken towards cleaning up the mess that MLB had become. It's still got a long ways to go.

quote:

by 2smr: after Palmeiro tested positive, there was thought given to charging him with perjury. However, his positive test was after the hearing, so they couldn't conclusively prove that he'd used steroids prior to the hearing.

of course - - thoughts being that after being grilled under oath by congress the fine young Palmeiro says to himself "that chit must be pretty good, I better try some"

I dont see it as that complicated.

In Barry's world - it is all about Barry.
In the Federal Court system - it will now be all about Barry.
LOL

Bye bye Barry

This whole thing is motivated by money. Barry apparently had visions of the big payday chasing the record. But he just didn't think he could match up against that steroid using Mcguire across the bay in Oakland so he decided he needed an edge. He just didn't have a Canseco available tto shoot-him-up.

And now there is a Federal Prosecutor thinking he will get his bona fides taking down Barry and make a lot of money after the winfall from Balco data fell in his lap and then he publishes his book on "How I took Down Barry Bonds".

As in Watergate many years ago, follow the money and it gets easier to determine motivations.

SF Giants announcer and ex-Giants pitcher Krukou said it best when he stated that Barry Bonds is taking a bullet for all the players of the steroid generation.

Test everyone in baseball and dump anyone that is dirty...then I will believe there is a "real" effort to clean up "the game" and make the "integrity" of the game have true meaning. Until then this is all show with no meaning.

JMO

Barry publicly challenged them to do something.

So - they did something.

Barry has always felt he was bigger than the game.

Barry was wrong.

Bye bye Barry

Well I was being rather tongue-in-cheek about it, but since you offered I'll express just a thought I've had about this past season.

I believe the prosecutor informed Selig's office that they had the goods on Barry. But Selig had a decision to make about whether to give up Barry and what that would mean for MLB BB.

I think a deal was cut where Barry got to pursue the record, and BB got its pound of flesh while it made a ton of money.

I don't believe BB will expunge the record even after Barry gets convicted, because it adds flavor to the history of the game. But I also think that Barry had to agree to go through the crucible for MLB BB. (take the bullet). He's at the end of his career and he gets the record and made all that money...now he gets to lie on the beach in Tahiti like Brando.

Consider this, Barry is the biggest name in BB to ever be indicted and that means he gives all the other guys some cover. It will all work out to the benefit of BB, the prosecutor and Barry.

It's all good. Everyone wins even the fans...they got to watch history being made and now they get to use Barry as the whipping boy in countless arguments...and that creates interest in MLB BB. What a deal! JMO

I don't see how they can take down Bonds and ignore everyone else; although, I must keep reminding myself he is being indicted for perjury, not for illegally taking drugs.

Much will depend on what comes out through the recent bust and any associated testimony concerning other names.

$6 billion would seem to indicate that the controversy is not crippling the gate.

I, too, don't believe they'll do anything about the record; numbers int he game are too intertwined. And the Cincinnati Reds are still listed as the winners of the 1919 series, sans asterisk.

Remember that MLB is a business...leave all that romantic stuff out of it, eg., "BB is life", etc.

Selig knows he must maintain the thing that makes MLB BB unique as far as business is concerned and guarantees that MLB BB will continue to thrive and grow worldwide, which is the long term goal of all the owners.

The thing he must protect is the "Sherman-Act Exemption". With that monoply BB has a unique advantage that no other business has in our country.

As long as BB could make money off of Barry he had a place at the table. But now after the record is broken his leverage is gone...money has dried up as far azs his "star". BB is more than willing 6to sacrifice anyone that doesn't make money and threatens to expose to much light on the possible owners mismanagement of the steroids issue.

Barry is already yesterday's news. Now its A-Rod and the new breed of players from all over the world....let the competition begin.

The world is now MLB's oyster and either players realize the money will be tied to not only your performance but how you represent your country. The game is going international and the Barry's who had more of a provincial approach to their exisitence will not last long in the new MLB.

JMO

The Mitchell Report, and the latest big steroid bust, will hopefully provide names of guilty players..unless the Player's Union can somehow prevent the release of names.

I don't see Barroid as being a sacrificial lamb at all. He was offered immunity for truthful testimony..he accepted that immunity..and he then apparently lied on multiple counts. He made matters worse by contunuing to shoot off his mouth, basically throwing down the gauntlet of "catch me if you can". Apparently he was under the mistaken impression that the extra 60 pounds of muscle he gained made him bigger than the game.

I heard a Bud Selig interview the other day..he was trumpeting MLB's drug testing plan as the best in sports. That was just another sign that MLB needs a new Comissioner, because their testing plan has more holes than a block of Swiss cheese.

The only way the game will truly be cleaned up is with a strong Commissioner, and a thourough testing plan that covers HGH as well as steroids, testosterone, and other hormones. It must be constantly upgraded and refined to catch up with the chemists that create "designer steroids" by altering the composition of known steroids formulations.

If you think that all of the players have stopped, as Commisioner Selig seemed to think, then you're sadly mistaken. The Olympics have a much more stringent testing program, and they constantly catch athletes cheating. With the money to be made in MLB, there will always be players looking to push the envelope.

I would rather watch amateur and college BB any day of the week.
Tired of cheaters.

I sure hope that nobody considers Owner Selig to be a strong commissioner---the guy they need already took the NFL job

Test everyone in baseball and dump anyone that is dirty...then I will believe there is a "real" effort to clean up "the game" and make the "integrity" of the game have true meaning. Until then this is all show with no meaning.
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everyone wants to be tough on steroids...until it's them.
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i think that is the best idea i've heard. if their using,they need to have pay a price. but every one not just the no names.

tr your right we need a no BS commish.

2seamer you're worried about the gotcha aspects of the "game" within the game. You will never catch everyone...100%. Its just not possible. Why? Because if history has shown us anything its that the creativeness of the human being is always one step ahead of thosr that want to put human behavior in a tight neat little box. Life will always find away around the barriers to break out and live free of controls.

The owners will put some sort of testing in place, hire a good publicist to promote the facade and brag about every new iteration to catch the next l "designer drug version" And the "game" within the game will play on.

You're right about one thing though, it's about the money and that is the only driving motivating factor tha5t makes sense to stop all of this.

Pay the players extra dollars in bonus to stay clean!!

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:

Pay the players extra dollars in bonus to stay clean!!

That would be an interesting compensation policy, if you don't take drugs you get say $$,000.

So the players who would not take drugs would be the guys who are making $300,000/yr or what ever the min is since it would be a lot of money for them and those who would take drugs would be the A-Rods, that are making $30,000,000/yr since they will even get stronger and the bonus for not taking drugs would not mean anything to him.

Or maybe the guys who are making $300,000 would be more motivated to take drugs, so he too can make $30,000,000/yr and he thinks the risk/reward is worth the extra zeros!

Homerun04 it does seem possible that the incentive to stay clean using bonus money could get some players to risk the incentive in reverse to go with the "dirty" guys to continue the "game".

But I think it could be structured so the guys make the bonus based upon being "clean". But as an disincentive to get tested once as "dirty" the player is suspended for that season, loses his income and the bonus. The player with the mega-bucks contract would have much more to lose than the minimum-contract player, but the sanction results in the same impact to both.

Three strikes and the player is out of baseball for life.

Just a thought. JMO

After following this thread for awhile I've decided to add my two cents. I think everyone can agree that Bonds is one of the biggest names in baseball right now. With Bonds being indicted on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice, I think something very important is being accomplished here.

Our High School s****r team got a new coach this year. Had a early meeting to let the players know what was expected of them. At the top of the list was that he would not tolerate any disrespect to his coaches. After a pretty intense workout one practice a senior player lost his temper and went off on the head coach. Coach threw him of the team.

This player did everything possible to make the coach have to take him back. Went to the A.D. and many teachers from our school( coach was not a teacher).
This player thought because he was a star player that he was above the rules. I think that many players in Major League Baseball think they are above the rules. If and when Bonds is found guilty of these charges it will send a clear message to players. The next time a player stands before a grand jury they will think very seriously about what comes out of their mouth. I don't think baseball owners will clean this steroid mess up without outside help. Hopefully this is a beginning. As for all the people who think holding Bonds accountable for his actions will accomplish nothing. I'd be willing to bet you won't see many football players fighting dogs after the Mike Vick case as a good example. I think the only way players stop is if the consequences are to great. As the father of a 16yr baseball player, steroids are something that I feel very strongly against.


JMO

Banditssbb

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
2seamer you're worried about the gotcha aspects of the "game" within the game. You will never catch everyone...100%. Its just not possible. Why? Because if history has shown us anything its that the creativeness of the human being is always one step ahead of thosr that want to put human behavior in a tight neat little box. Life will always find away around the barriers to break out and live free of controls.

Pay the players extra dollars in bonus to stay clean!!

You're right, you'll never stop it 100%. The Olympics are proof of that..they have a very stringent testing program, and they're constantly catching those that try to beat the system. Logic will tell you that with the numbers being caught, then there are some slipping through.

MLB needs a more stringent program that's constantly advancing in it's testing capabilities. The temptation to cheat and try to get away with it is just too strong.

As for paying players to stay clean..why? Instead, don't pay them if they test positive.