Coach I'm not totally disagreeing with you. I don't want to change the game any more than you do but if a simple rule or punishment can be implimented to eliminate even a few of the "avoidable" injuries, then why not do it?
Yes there will be someone called out or tossed by an ump that didn't have a clear view. So what? Isn't that better than losing another Buster Posey for the rest of the season, or longer?
Fans go to games to see the Buster Posey’s of the game. They don’t go to see his AAA replacement. Rules change over time to protect the players - be reasonable and use common sense. There is no less excitement at the play at home in HS or College ball with the rules there.
When inter-league play first started I went to a Dodger game vs Seattle. Ichiro was up to bat and got pegged in the head. A diehard Dodger fan next to me stood up and started yelling at HIS pitcher. “HEY what are YOU doing! Don’t take out the guy WE came to see”
I rest my case.
When inter-league play first started I went to a Dodger game vs Seattle. Ichiro was up to bat and got pegged in the head. A diehard Dodger fan next to me stood up and started yelling at HIS pitcher. “HEY what are YOU doing! Don’t take out the guy WE came to see”
I rest my case.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
Thanks JH for the info.
I just don't think we need to take one play where the catcher is not doing the right thing to totally change the rules of the game. I personally think it was a cheap shot but not something to change the rules.
Coach, he may not have been doing the "right thing" in regards of avoiding an injury after the hit, however he was doing the right thing to avoid such a blow. He was not blcking the plate. The hit was avoidable without an out. Cousins went out of his way to hit Posey.
sportsfan5 I guess what I'm saying is if there is going to be a rule change then let's give it a couple of weeks and let the emotion of this play die down. Then MLB, fans, teams and whoever can make a rational decision and judgement without over reacting. When rules / laws are created out of emotion we tend to try and take a sledgehammer to kill a fly.
I guess my example wasn't very good about the premature ejection (no puns intended) but I wouldn't have a problem with an ejection call here as a rule if that's all it is. Even use replay to make this call but I just don't want rule changes to be made out of emotion.
Also, I've never been a fan of if this such and such helps just one person then it's worth it. I hear it all the time in education and it's wrong because if all we're doing is helping one person then we're wasting our time and need to do something else. I know that's not what you're saying here but it's in the neighborhood of the same senitment. If it IS only a simple rule change then I can live with it but look at the NFL. They made a snap decision based on emotion when some high profile QBs got hurt. Look at where they are now. I just hope MLB doesn't do the same thing.
Jimmy I agree with everything you said. I believe it was a cheap shot made worse by Posey's technique. If he's set up the way he should be set up and Cousins goes out of his way to do what he did then I really doubt this thread is 5 pages long in record time.
I guess my example wasn't very good about the premature ejection (no puns intended) but I wouldn't have a problem with an ejection call here as a rule if that's all it is. Even use replay to make this call but I just don't want rule changes to be made out of emotion.
Also, I've never been a fan of if this such and such helps just one person then it's worth it. I hear it all the time in education and it's wrong because if all we're doing is helping one person then we're wasting our time and need to do something else. I know that's not what you're saying here but it's in the neighborhood of the same senitment. If it IS only a simple rule change then I can live with it but look at the NFL. They made a snap decision based on emotion when some high profile QBs got hurt. Look at where they are now. I just hope MLB doesn't do the same thing.
Jimmy I agree with everything you said. I believe it was a cheap shot made worse by Posey's technique. If he's set up the way he should be set up and Cousins goes out of his way to do what he did then I really doubt this thread is 5 pages long in record time.
Jimmy is spot on here. Yes Buster's technique was not very good. But the runner had every opportunity to avoid a violent hit and still score. That imo makes it a cheap shot. He went out of his way to deliver a violent blow on Buster. Cheap shot.
Veteran umpires who have been around the game and called it at a high level know the game of baseball. They also understand how its played. I listen to what they think. If my opinion falls on the same side with these guys I usually feel pretty good about how I see it.
Veteran umpires who have been around the game and called it at a high level know the game of baseball. They also understand how its played. I listen to what they think. If my opinion falls on the same side with these guys I usually feel pretty good about how I see it.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
He went out of his way to deliver a violent blow on Buster. Cheap shot.
My thought exactly.
Say what you want about him, but the home plate ump, Joe West, has been in the majors for 33 years. He was standing right there and ruled Scott Cousins 'safe'.
He was safe and I dont think I have heard anyone say he was not safe. He was clearly safe. That is not the issue here. And he was within the rules of the game to plow Posey.
What we are talking about here is wether or not it was a cheap play or not. You can be within the rules of the game, be safe and still take a cheap shot on someone.
What we are talking about here is wether or not it was a cheap play or not. You can be within the rules of the game, be safe and still take a cheap shot on someone.
Could he have scored without the big crash? Looking at endless slow motion replays and still photographs- probably. Still, I stop short of calling it cheap. The rest is up to the baseball gods.
What gets me about this whole thing is, while guys occasionally run into one another, direct contact between opposing players in baseball is limited to simple 'tagging', minor dust-ups at second... and destroying the catcher.
What gets me about this whole thing is, while guys occasionally run into one another, direct contact between opposing players in baseball is limited to simple 'tagging', minor dust-ups at second... and destroying the catcher.
What I find interesting is that the majority of posters seem to believe that it was a "cheap" shot while most baseball commentators don't feel the same.
I have watched the replay several times and it looks to me like Posey was making a move to block the plate sliding to his left before contact was made. That would be the catcher's job in a tie game in extra innings. The play is a part of the game and catchers have the ability to inflict damage on runners too (look at the replay of Ben Revere getting smashed by a catcher.
If you want to avoid this, the rule would have to be no blocking the plate by a catcher and no contact by a runner. Seems like that would be still be subject to problems with the catcher having to move to catch a throw up the third base line.
For Posey's agent to be sounding off seems very self serving. I hope Posey comes back from his injury just like Carlos Santana has. Was there the same outcry last year when Santana was injured on a collision at home plate?
I have watched the replay several times and it looks to me like Posey was making a move to block the plate sliding to his left before contact was made. That would be the catcher's job in a tie game in extra innings. The play is a part of the game and catchers have the ability to inflict damage on runners too (look at the replay of Ben Revere getting smashed by a catcher.
If you want to avoid this, the rule would have to be no blocking the plate by a catcher and no contact by a runner. Seems like that would be still be subject to problems with the catcher having to move to catch a throw up the third base line.
For Posey's agent to be sounding off seems very self serving. I hope Posey comes back from his injury just like Carlos Santana has. Was there the same outcry last year when Santana was injured on a collision at home plate?
I have watched it several times as well. What I see is this. The runner veers inside before Buster even has the baseball. And while Buster is in the process of setting up to catch the ball. He is clearly not blocking the plate when the runner veers to the inside to take him out. A slide to the backside would have allowed him to score without taking out the catcher. Now thats what I see. I see a runner who has made up his mind he is going to hammer the catcher.
Everyone has an opinion. Yes you can plow the catcher at the ML level of play. And I am one of those people that simply believes it should be used as a last resort. In this case I do not believe it was. And that is why I see it as a cheap shot. Others are free to believe what they want to believe. No problem we all have our own opinion.
Everyone has an opinion. Yes you can plow the catcher at the ML level of play. And I am one of those people that simply believes it should be used as a last resort. In this case I do not believe it was. And that is why I see it as a cheap shot. Others are free to believe what they want to believe. No problem we all have our own opinion.
No doubt he sized him up and brought the wood. In my mind, he did what he felt he needed to do to score the run.
No problem. He certainly did score the run. All I am saying is he could have scored the run by simply going backside and he didn't HAVE to hammer Buster to score the run. If you think he had to hammer him to score then fine.
Where I have a problem with hammering the catcher is when you can score without hammering him. If you have no other choice and its in the rules then fine. If you have another option but you choose to hammer him anyway that is where I call it a cheap shot. And when he sized up him he had another option in my opinion.
But like I said thats just my opinion.
Where I have a problem with hammering the catcher is when you can score without hammering him. If you have no other choice and its in the rules then fine. If you have another option but you choose to hammer him anyway that is where I call it a cheap shot. And when he sized up him he had another option in my opinion.
But like I said thats just my opinion.
I agree that it looks like the runner veers left to create contact. I believe he was doing it because in his mind Posey was going to catch the ball and block the plate preventing the score.
For arguments sake - what if Posey had caught the ball a fraction of a second earlier cleanly and then pushed the runner off the plate preventing the score if he tried to slide to the outside part of the plate. Happens all the time in MLB.
Hard to tell what goes through a player's mind in that fraction of a second when he must determine whether to slide or try to bowl the catcher over. I have seen some plays where the runner has gone "headhunting" on this type of play. I just didn't see it on this play. I just hope that Buster comes back next year and continues what should be a great career.
For arguments sake - what if Posey had caught the ball a fraction of a second earlier cleanly and then pushed the runner off the plate preventing the score if he tried to slide to the outside part of the plate. Happens all the time in MLB.
Hard to tell what goes through a player's mind in that fraction of a second when he must determine whether to slide or try to bowl the catcher over. I have seen some plays where the runner has gone "headhunting" on this type of play. I just didn't see it on this play. I just hope that Buster comes back next year and continues what should be a great career.
Buster is a great kid and an outstanding player. We know him very well and baseball fans like him too.
I have mixed emotions about this play. It did look like the collision could have, maybe should have, been avoided. However, we would need to be in that runners shoes (or head) to understand exactly what happened.
Scott Cousins is a player trying to build a successful career. He is trying to score a run. If he avoids the contact and is somehow tagged out, what will his manager and teammates think? Will the decision makers think he is soft? Or will they think he is willing to do anything it takes?
It’s also safer for the runner to avoid the collision, that catcher has some hard equipment on. We have all seen runners get hurt on similar plays. Actually I saw a young kid break his neck (end his career) colliding with shin guards.
IMO… These things are fairly instantaneous decisions. You either commit to the outside or you commit to the collision. Once that decision is made, it is nearly impossible to change your path. He decided to go with the collision. I wish he had gone the other way, but I can see why things like this can happen. He doesn’t have slo-motion replay to guide him.
I fully believe that Cousins did what he thought was the right thing to do at the time. Unfortunately it ended up in a serious injury for Buster. The only way to avoid this in the future is to change the rules. I would bet there would be many differing opinions regarding that rule change. For sure, agents should not be in charge of the rules. Many have been injured, why is it so much more important now than it was when all the others were injured?
I have mixed emotions about this play. It did look like the collision could have, maybe should have, been avoided. However, we would need to be in that runners shoes (or head) to understand exactly what happened.
Scott Cousins is a player trying to build a successful career. He is trying to score a run. If he avoids the contact and is somehow tagged out, what will his manager and teammates think? Will the decision makers think he is soft? Or will they think he is willing to do anything it takes?
It’s also safer for the runner to avoid the collision, that catcher has some hard equipment on. We have all seen runners get hurt on similar plays. Actually I saw a young kid break his neck (end his career) colliding with shin guards.
IMO… These things are fairly instantaneous decisions. You either commit to the outside or you commit to the collision. Once that decision is made, it is nearly impossible to change your path. He decided to go with the collision. I wish he had gone the other way, but I can see why things like this can happen. He doesn’t have slo-motion replay to guide him.
I fully believe that Cousins did what he thought was the right thing to do at the time. Unfortunately it ended up in a serious injury for Buster. The only way to avoid this in the future is to change the rules. I would bet there would be many differing opinions regarding that rule change. For sure, agents should not be in charge of the rules. Many have been injured, why is it so much more important now than it was when all the others were injured?
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Many have been injured, why is it so much more important now than it was when all the others were injured?
There is always a "last one" that leads to change. It doesn't matter if it's the worst or not...it's a matter of timing. Sometimes people are just ready for change.
Baseball has been largely about money for years. But what money represents changes. Sometimes it's ticket sales, sometimes it's salaries. This time it might be about the team protecting its investment or the players proetecting their financial future.
Time will tell.
quote:Many have been injured, why is it so much more important now than it was when all the others were injured?
Well, I can think of one immediately:
Owners like $$$$$, lots of it. Buster Posey, as evidenced by this thread and sports talk shows/ESPN/MLB.com is a hugely popular player who plays the game right and has major charisma.
Not only is Posey one terrific player, he has captivated the Bay Area(not just core baseball fans). Children love him.
He isn't just good for the game. He is far more than that; in less than one short year, he has become a face of the game for many.
Necessarily, fans and the public don't/won't pay to watch Eli Whiteside and won't take a Saturday or any other time to turn on the TV because Eli is catching.
Secondly, I think the media/slow motion and "violence" of the collision needs to be considered in terms of the present knowledge and awareness. Check SI.com right now to see the still photo and the image it creates and leaves.
Brain damage in NFL players, concussions( Mike Matheney in the Bay Area), and perhaps current thinking raise the specter that might be more receptive to the concept that major injuries, if they can be mitigated, don't need to be "part of the game."
Let's be realistic. Posey needs some type of significant surgery. Any such procedure carries risks, including infection and complications. In the Bay Area, this situation is being compared to Joe Montana when he had back surgery and faced career ending risks...in a fan's eyes.
Posey is taking on such a persona, maybe even bigger than Montana because information can be captured so quickly, because kids love him, true fans love him, marginal fans love him, the media loves him, and even those who don't know much about baseball love him.
I agree with sportsfan5 - change the rules and I believe I said that before he posted. His son is a catcher and a first round draft choice. If any of us had our catcher bowled over and injured like Posey, none of us would be arguing "oh shucks, thems da breaks of the game" (improper grammar intentional).
As I mentioned, there will be many different opinions regarding changing the rules. I would be interested in hearing what Buster thinks about changing the rules.
Ray Fosse was an "All Star" catcher that got run over by Pete Rose in the 1970 All Star game.
Ray Fosse: no need for rule changes
I do think safety should always be a concern when it comes to the rules. So who knows, maybe there will be a rule change. Lately, Football has made several rule changes in the interest of safety.
Ray Fosse was an "All Star" catcher that got run over by Pete Rose in the 1970 All Star game.
Ray Fosse: no need for rule changes
I do think safety should always be a concern when it comes to the rules. So who knows, maybe there will be a rule change. Lately, Football has made several rule changes in the interest of safety.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
As I mentioned, there will be many different opinions regarding changing the rules. I would be interested in hearing what Buster thinks about changing the rules.
Ray Fosse was an "All Star" catcher that got run over by Pete Rose in the 1970 All Star game.
Ray Fosse: no need for rule changes
I do think safety should always be a concern when it comes to the rules. So who knows, maybe there will be a rule change. Lately, Football has made several rule changes in the interest of safety.
PG - thanks for posting that. Ironically, I used the Ray Fosse example earlier in this thread for arguing why the rules ought to be changed. I am open to reason but have always been against bowling over the catcher. Obviously, any rule change should not allow them to block access to the plate either imho.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
I have watched it several times as well. What I see is this. The runner veers inside before Buster even has the baseball. And while Buster is in the process of setting up to catch the ball. He is clearly not blocking the plate when the runner veers to the inside to take him out. A slide to the backside would have allowed him to score without taking out the catcher. Now thats what I see. I see a runner who has made up his mind he is going to hammer the catcher.
Everyone has an opinion. Yes you can plow the catcher at the ML level of play. And I am one of those people that simply believes it should be used as a last resort. In this case I do not believe it was. And that is why I see it as a cheap shot. Others are free to believe what they want to believe. No problem we all have our own opinion.
I see that also. My opinion is same as yours.
I don't think it would be fair for sportcasters to call Cousins out, that's why they are not doing so, because the play is allowed, but I will bet they have a lot more to say off camara about what he did.
Major League has hundreds of Scott Cousins in the game, not many Buster Poseys. Their is a certain respect that the Poseys get that others don't. I really don't think that Cousins intended to cause the damage he did, more to get attention from a run at the plate. Unfortunetly he didn't think it would be negative.
I guess I feel cheated, have seen Posey play since college and it was evident then he was special. I am not sure many realize catchers like him don't come around that often.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff: If he avoids the contact and is somehow tagged out, what will his manager and teammates think? Will the decision makers think he is soft? Or will they think he is willing to do anything it takes?
Bad set of circumstances, the worst case scenerio...but bottom line this is the ultra competitive culture of pro ball...the same culture that has pitchers throw at batters for a range of understood but unspoken reasons. You can change the rules, but can you, or do you want to change the culture?
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My son is known as a hard-nosed player but no one has EVER called him a dirty player. These following pictures I am going to share are of him from pro ball and the college summer leagues. I can assure everyone that he was high-fived by every coach and player on the team after these respective plays but I am against the rules that allow these collisions in the first place.
From pro ball:
From the college summer league:
From pro ball:
From the college summer league:
CD,
I don't see the catcher being blindsided. Isn't that the issue. That is what made the play "cheap" or "dirty".
JMO.
I don't see the catcher being blindsided. Isn't that the issue. That is what made the play "cheap" or "dirty".
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
CD,
I don't see the catcher being blindsided. Isn't that the issue. That is what made the play "cheap" or "dirty".
JMO.
I agree with you TPM. I am arguing to take the collision play out of the game. No more blocking the plate, no more bowling the catcher.
I can see why 70% fans voted not to change the rule, although I personally don't like it.
Perhaps there needs to be clarification, as to what is acceptable and what is not. It has nothing to do with sissyfying the game. Their is a lot of stuff that goes on that we don't even know about. Teams send messages to each other back and forth without anyone really getting hurt, I personally have no issue with that.
I just believe that there are some written and unwritten rules that are part of the game, and for me blindsiding is not one of them.
Perhaps there needs to be clarification, as to what is acceptable and what is not. It has nothing to do with sissyfying the game. Their is a lot of stuff that goes on that we don't even know about. Teams send messages to each other back and forth without anyone really getting hurt, I personally have no issue with that.
I just believe that there are some written and unwritten rules that are part of the game, and for me blindsiding is not one of them.
PGStaff posted a link to an article that quotes a different article. His link has a phrase in the title (which Jerry accurately captured) of "no need for rules changes".
But that's not what Ray Fosse said. From the original article by John Shea:
"The game has been around more than 100 years, and now they're going to start protecting catchers?" Fosse asked. "I can't see anything that can be changed. In high school, you can't run over a catcher. But that's high school. This is professional baseball. The idea is to score runs. If the catcher has the ball and he's standing there, the runner has to stop? Is that the protection?
"I can't believe anything can be done, and I don't see how you could regulate something like that."
That's different than "no need". And those of us who have watched FED or NCAA baseball know that it is possible to regulate these collisions, and to sharply reduce the frequency of potentially injurious incidents. Probably Ray Fosse hasn't watched many college games in the last few years, and so doesn't know the practical application of rules designed to reduce the number of collisions.
It will take a change to two behaviors that are currently allowed in pro ball: Catchers do sometime blocks the plate, and runners retaliate by crashing into the catcher. Sometimes runners crash the catcher even when he isn't blocking. If we require runners to attempt to avoid, and penalize obstruction at the plate, there will be far fewer collisions. We'll still have train wrecks when the throw carries the catcher into the runners path, but it will put a stop to intentional collsions.
But that's not what Ray Fosse said. From the original article by John Shea:
"The game has been around more than 100 years, and now they're going to start protecting catchers?" Fosse asked. "I can't see anything that can be changed. In high school, you can't run over a catcher. But that's high school. This is professional baseball. The idea is to score runs. If the catcher has the ball and he's standing there, the runner has to stop? Is that the protection?
"I can't believe anything can be done, and I don't see how you could regulate something like that."
That's different than "no need". And those of us who have watched FED or NCAA baseball know that it is possible to regulate these collisions, and to sharply reduce the frequency of potentially injurious incidents. Probably Ray Fosse hasn't watched many college games in the last few years, and so doesn't know the practical application of rules designed to reduce the number of collisions.
It will take a change to two behaviors that are currently allowed in pro ball: Catchers do sometime blocks the plate, and runners retaliate by crashing into the catcher. Sometimes runners crash the catcher even when he isn't blocking. If we require runners to attempt to avoid, and penalize obstruction at the plate, there will be far fewer collisions. We'll still have train wrecks when the throw carries the catcher into the runners path, but it will put a stop to intentional collsions.
quote:Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
PGStaff posted a link to an article that quotes a different article. His link has a phrase in the title (which Jerry accurately captured) of "no need for rules changes".
But that's not what Ray Fosse said. From the original article by John Shea:
"The game has been around more than 100 years, and now they're going to start protecting catchers?" Fosse asked. "I can't see anything that can be changed. In high school, you can't run over a catcher. But that's high school. This is professional baseball. The idea is to score runs. If the catcher has the ball and he's standing there, the runner has to stop? Is that the protection?
"I can't believe anything can be done, and I don't see how you could regulate something like that."
That's different than "no need". And those of us who have watched FED or NCAA baseball know that it is possible to regulate these collisions, and to sharply reduce the frequency of potentially injurious incidents. Probably Ray Fosse hasn't watched many college games in the last few years, and so doesn't know the practical application of rules designed to reduce the number of collisions.
It will take a change to two behaviors that are currently allowed in pro ball: Catchers do sometime blocks the plate, and runners retaliate by crashing into the catcher. Sometimes runners crash the catcher even when he isn't blocking. If we require runners to attempt to avoid, and penalize obstruction at the plate, there will be far fewer collisions. We'll still have train wrecks when the throw carries the catcher into the runners path, but it will put a stop to intentional collsions.
Totally agree. High school and college baseball are excellent versions of the game imho and neither has suffered in excitement by "regulating" the collision.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Totally agree. High school and college baseball are excellent versions of the game imho and neither has suffered in excitement by "regulating" the collision.
I feel the NCAA and FED rules have done wonders towards this end; if OBR were to add it I think it would have the secondary effect of nearly (if not totally) eliminating the illegal collision at the lower levels.
From the San Jose Mercury News sports blog:
"I left him a lane, but he chose to come at me", Posey said.
"Posey also said while he didn’t want to “villify” Cousins, he “had a choice to slide or come at me, and he came directly at me.” Posey would like MLB and the MLBPA to look at plays like this and possibly make a rule change. He said he feels fortunate he only ripped up his leg, and didn’t sustain some kind of back or neck injury that could’ve put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life."
"I left him a lane, but he chose to come at me", Posey said.
"Posey also said while he didn’t want to “villify” Cousins, he “had a choice to slide or come at me, and he came directly at me.” Posey would like MLB and the MLBPA to look at plays like this and possibly make a rule change. He said he feels fortunate he only ripped up his leg, and didn’t sustain some kind of back or neck injury that could’ve put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life."
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
From the San Jose Mercury News sports blog:
"I left him a lane, but he chose to come at me", Posey said.
"Posey also said while he didn’t want to “villify” Cousins, he “had a choice to slide or come at me, and he came directly at me.” Posey would like MLB and the MLBPA to look at plays like this and possibly make a rule change. He said he feels fortunate he only ripped up his leg, and didn’t sustain some kind of back or neck injury that could’ve put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life."
Great point by the "kid" and another reason why people love Posey.
Why does EVERY 1st and 3rd base coach in ALL of baseball now wear helmets? Because Mike Coolbaugh is dead. Ironically, a helmet would not have saved Coolbaugh but why does a catcher (or someone egged-on to collide into them) have to wind up in a wheel chair before we change this unecessary rule?
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Interesting...
Tonight/just now...Giants game....Man on third...dribbler to Lincecum...throws home...Whiteside (the Giants Replacement catcher)...gives the runner a wide lane to slide in...and he scores on a close play. Whiteside crowds off some of that space and the runner is likley tagged out. Bochey comes out, gets tossed.
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Interesting...
Tonight/just now...Giants game....Man on third...dribbler to Lincecum...throws home...Whiteside (the Giants Replacement catcher)...gives the runner a wide lane to slide in...and he scores on a close play. Whiteside crowds off some of that space and the runner is likley tagged out. Bochey comes out, gets tossed.
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Saw the same thing, observer44. It looked like Whiteside might have been told to be safe. Bochey was fired up.
Bright side the kid called up, Brandon Crawford (a local kid from Pleasanton) to fill in at shortstop got a grand slam on his first major league hit.
Bright side the kid called up, Brandon Crawford (a local kid from Pleasanton) to fill in at shortstop got a grand slam on his first major league hit.
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Now on in the bottom of the eighth on a single to left...Prince Fielder (known for this)comes barreling into Whiteside who this time is in the way, takes a blow and potentially saves the game.
I wonder if the coaching staff suggested to Whtiteside after the earlier play that he cover a little more of the baselne this time...hmmm...
And it looks like no one told fielder that he was supposed to find a lane..
And so it goes...
That's the culture...both ways.
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Now on in the bottom of the eighth on a single to left...Prince Fielder (known for this)comes barreling into Whiteside who this time is in the way, takes a blow and potentially saves the game.
I wonder if the coaching staff suggested to Whtiteside after the earlier play that he cover a little more of the baselne this time...hmmm...
And it looks like no one told fielder that he was supposed to find a lane..
And so it goes...
That's the culture...both ways.
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Fielder just tried to take out Whiteside at the plate, but Whiteside was standing and able to back away after tagging him out. Whiteside had the ball while Fielder was about 10 feet from the plate. Fielder had his arms crossed for a big time slam.
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Watched the replay and it was still a pretty hefty coliision...you are so right Tool....Fielder in with crossed arms and loading up..you might even say looking for contact, going after whiteside...but Whiteside was up on his feet and taking the charge (moving backwards slightly)...absorbed the blow...made a potentially epic collision look pretty minimal...an excellent play on his part.
Interesting, no outrage on the part of announcers or teams.
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Watched the replay and it was still a pretty hefty coliision...you are so right Tool....Fielder in with crossed arms and loading up..you might even say looking for contact, going after whiteside...but Whiteside was up on his feet and taking the charge (moving backwards slightly)...absorbed the blow...made a potentially epic collision look pretty minimal...an excellent play on his part.
Interesting, no outrage on the part of announcers or teams.
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quote:Originally posted by observer44:
Interesting, no outrage on the part of announcers or teams.
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Shouldn't be surprising. Good clean hits. You pretty much get the outrage on the cheap shots, like Cousins'.
What is the rule at other bases? Can the runner try to dislodge the ball or bowl over the fielder to prevent the ball from being caught? Why shouldn't the rule be the same regardless of which base it is?
Jimmy is so right, no outrage because the catcher had the ball and he saw it coming.
Interesting watching the Marlins game, when Cousins came up they didn't defend him but said the play was legal.
No one said it wasn't, it was just cheap.
Got to send those guys an email.....
Interesting watching the Marlins game, when Cousins came up they didn't defend him but said the play was legal.
No one said it wasn't, it was just cheap.
Got to send those guys an email.....
I've now watched the video carefully. Guess I don't see anything so wrong other than the terrible result.
The Collision
Please pause just before the throw touches Buster's mitt. At that point Cousins is at least two full strides from the plate. Even before that Cousins saw the play and he had to know the ball was going to beat him easily. He had to think he was going to be an easy out. Yes, Buster is in front of the plate but he is in the process of catching the throw, covering the plate and making a tag. If Buster actually catches the throw Cousins is a very easy out unless he does what he did IMO. There is no way that Cousins could know that Buster didn't have the ball in his mitt.
Very unfortunate, but at the risk of being hated, I would rather have my player do what Cousins did in that same exact situation. He did what he thought he needed to do, willing to get the job done, score an important run. Once again had Buster caught the throw, Cousins was an easy out at the plate, very little chance to score with any slide. Also if you pause at a point before the actual contact you will see that this was not a blindside. Buster did give him the plate, but he was going to take it away before Cousins actually got there.
That said, I wouldn't be against a rule change if it eliminated these collisions. We love Buster, we even picked him as an Aflac All American and he wasn't drafted until the 50th round out of high school. I hate seeing him get injured, but Buster didn't use proper technique on that play and Cousin's (not knowing the ball was on the ground) did what he determined was his only chance to score. The only thing wrong with all this is possibly the rule that allows it. I'm all for safety! Until then it will always be part of the game at that level. Blocking the plate is also very much part of the game and it is an important skill for catchers. A runner that is not willing to run over a catcher in these situations will not gain the respect of his teammates and organization.
Anyway, rather than vilify Cousins for trying to do his job, I'm praying that Buster comes back strong.
The Collision
Please pause just before the throw touches Buster's mitt. At that point Cousins is at least two full strides from the plate. Even before that Cousins saw the play and he had to know the ball was going to beat him easily. He had to think he was going to be an easy out. Yes, Buster is in front of the plate but he is in the process of catching the throw, covering the plate and making a tag. If Buster actually catches the throw Cousins is a very easy out unless he does what he did IMO. There is no way that Cousins could know that Buster didn't have the ball in his mitt.
Very unfortunate, but at the risk of being hated, I would rather have my player do what Cousins did in that same exact situation. He did what he thought he needed to do, willing to get the job done, score an important run. Once again had Buster caught the throw, Cousins was an easy out at the plate, very little chance to score with any slide. Also if you pause at a point before the actual contact you will see that this was not a blindside. Buster did give him the plate, but he was going to take it away before Cousins actually got there.
That said, I wouldn't be against a rule change if it eliminated these collisions. We love Buster, we even picked him as an Aflac All American and he wasn't drafted until the 50th round out of high school. I hate seeing him get injured, but Buster didn't use proper technique on that play and Cousin's (not knowing the ball was on the ground) did what he determined was his only chance to score. The only thing wrong with all this is possibly the rule that allows it. I'm all for safety! Until then it will always be part of the game at that level. Blocking the plate is also very much part of the game and it is an important skill for catchers. A runner that is not willing to run over a catcher in these situations will not gain the respect of his teammates and organization.
Anyway, rather than vilify Cousins for trying to do his job, I'm praying that Buster comes back strong.