Catcher/Pitcher talk....

I'm missing something here.

Do you and your son seriously believe telling a pitcher to hit his spots increases the likelihood that he will?

My first suggestion is for your son to tune out the pitcher's mom, which the pitcher probably did years ago.

If he absolutely feels compelled to go out and talk to to the pitcher, he can ask what he wants to throw or feels he has good command of. Maybe he can check to make sure the pitcher likes the way he's setting up or possibly give a word of encouragement if he can do so sincerely.

Beyond that, not much.

first thing we do is send mommy home to prepare dinner

Swampboy,

Fair enough. Telling the pitcher to hit his spots is kinda like coaches saying "come on now, just throw strikes". I get it, he's already trying to do that. However, telling someone to do the obvious when they aren't can sometime refocus them on the task at hand especially when mommy is taking them out of focus.

Unfortunately, the pitcher in question hasn't taken mommy out of the equation as the pitcher talks about it in the dugout.

If son (as the catcher) can't figure out which pitches the pitcher can control on a given day without asking, he probably needs to quit catching.

I like the idea of asking about setup.

He hands out encouragement regularly. When that stops working, he tends to get more direct. "start getting closer to your spots or next time the hitter will tag it, so focus on hitting the spots".

This is the only pitcher he struggles with.

slider, not sure I agree completely. But I think I get your point. In this case it was seting up way outside and throwing inside or down the pipe.

slbaseballdad,

I think your son (catcher) started with the right idea, but then hit a wrong nerve in the pitcher with the second part of his effort to help.

QUOTE:
"Anyway, son goes to mound when pitcher is having difficulty hitting spots and tells him to quit thinking about it and just get closer to his spots."

"Quit thinking about it" was probably a good start, but "get closer to his spots" probably has the reverse effect. The pitcher is trying to hit his spots, but is missing. Meanwhile, crazy mom is shouting advice that obviously isn't helping. Pitcher probably feels like telling his mom to do what he told your son to do.

If your son sees something specific that the pitcher is doing differently from what that same pitcher does when he's successful, he could point that out in an encouraging way. (Not try to change the pitcher's mechanics in the middle of a game, of course... just tell the pitcher if there is something about his mechanics that he notices he's doing differently.)

But most times, the catcher won't have that kind of advice for the pitcher. So he should make him laugh. Seriously, give him a reason to chuckle, to help him relax. Have a supply of one-line stupid riddles ready. Make fun of the batter's shoes. Whatever. Just help the pitcher relax. Don't tell him to relax; help him relax. Don't tell him to hit his spots. He's already trying to do that.


Good luck!

Julie

P.S. I am just a mom, not a coach or a pitching expert. But my son was a pitcher thru the college level, and I have a lot of experience watching pitchers struggle to hit their spots.

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Have a supply of one-line stupid riddles ready. Make fun of the batter's shoes. Whatever. Just help the pitcher relax. Don't tell him to relax; help him relax.

Good ideas...Thanks!

slbaseballdad,

If mom is in the pitcher's head, it may be a bigger problem than any catcher can solve.

Sometimes, there's nothing for the catcher to do but put the signs down and keep the ball in front of him.

Ultimately, the pitcher is responsible for the pitches he throws.

Best wishes.

My son is a catcher and from what he tells me he doesn't have just one approach he uses with all pitchers. Different pitchers respond to different things. Some he won't go out and talk to because it doesn't do any good, just ticks the pitcher off. Sounds like maybe this particular pitcher was one of those.

quote:

it's easier to catch it than to pitch it, start there.

Not really.. if I'm catching a bad pitcher, I'm likely chasing the ball all over the place. For one thing, I don't want those runners able to go anywhere. For another, I DO NOT let that ball hit the umpire. That's rule #1 in catching-- DO NOT let the ball hit the umpire.

OP, I'll agree with others though-- cussing out on the mound isn't going to get it done. A catcher has a hard job- we all know that. Part of that is being able to control the pitcher and that's difficult to do when a pitcher is struggling.

.

"first thing we do is send mommy home to prepare dinner."

What's for dinner mom? Really? Not again? Yuck!

I dunno' Marty...mom said we're having Bellicose Burgers, Triple Digit Decibel Salad, and Extra Sour Sauerkraut.



.

Pitcher might need a quick mental break to just ease the tension a bit. It may not work at all, but maybe tell a joke or point out a hottie or something like that. If he's struggling, he's most likely already thinking about every little piece of advice he's ever gotten.

Trust me, your son's pitching advice isn't going to help much. Besides, what are the chances that your son (or any catcher at that age, really) truly knows enough about pitching to spot flaws and make the proper suggestion for adjustment. Maybe I'm wrong and he's know pitching mechanics inside and out. Or maybe he knows what Bob Gibson thought Tim McCarver knew ("Get back behind the plate...all you know about pitching is that you can't hit it").

I see your point, IF the pitcher is that wild it is tough on the catcher, I was under the impression that he was just off a few inches, when the OP said not hitting your spots. there's a different between not hitting spots and throwing wild. At and rate, with my sons, when the catcher comes out they usually just tell the to relax, go over the situation again, and tell them they have good stuff, and do what they do......

BUT if the pitcher is wild I would do the best I can until the coach either tells me to go to the mound of the coach pulls him

Good points made in posts above:

twotex:
"Different pitchers respond to different things."

True. Basically, if the pitcher indicates to your son that his input is not helping him... then it's not.

Emanski's Heroes:
"Besides, what are the chances that your son (or any catcher at that age, really) truly knows enough about pitching to spot flaws and make the proper suggestion for adjustment."

I agree, it would be unusual for a freshman catcher to recognize mechanical flaws correctly AND be sure that the advice applies to this pitcher.

Julie

"Dude, tell your mom to shut the hell up."

.

Better yet...



And bonus...the color matches her lipstick too!




.

quote:

I was under the impression that he was just off a few inches, when the OP said not hitting your spots.

Missing by feet not inches. He would be very happy if they were just missing by inches.

Thanks for everyones input. I'll be passing this along.

Appropriate communication is a must between pitch and catcher. In HS my son anticipated that he would have problems talking with catchers, and for that matter other players down the road so he took HS and college Spanish.

Disclaimer: Some on this site may consider this a "racey" or smarta$$ thought, but he has found it beneficial in his playing career, and eventually may also help out in his future baseball related "real life" job.

rz1 anybody offended by that statement doesn't really know baseball. Good for your son to take the initiative to learn Spanish.

This is a tough one because what can a catcher truly do by talking to the pitcher? Words of motivation aren't going to fix anything. You can't go out there and say "hey man it will be alright - you'll do better". It's not going to work and you have to face sometimes that a pitcher doesn't have it or isn't a pitcher.

The pitcher isn't going to say anything to his mom because it's his mom. He's got to go home with her so this pitcher might be a washout because of his mom which is sad.

Catchers should only go out for these reasons

1. crossed up on signs / make sure on same page with signs
2. talk about a scouting report on a hitter
3. adjust how they are going to approach someone that goes against the scouting report


There might be a few more but not too many. The pitcher pitches and the catcher catches. Neither one is a cheerleader or psychiatrist.

coach- I would add a #4 also. There are many times where a pitcher may feel as if they are a bit overwhelmed throughout the game. The mound can be a VERY lonely place when things aren't going your way, and the loneliness can seem like it lasts for days. Often times a pitcher can be so wrapped up in the situation around them or the emotions that they feel because of the happenings of the game that they lose their mental composure. Mental composure can be a difficult read for a coach or a catcher because it is sometimes difficult to see a pitcher losing it (the "poker face" remains on). I feel that during times of the game that might seem a bit overwhelming for a pitcher, or a time of a game where the momentum seems to be turning for the other team's benefit, it could behoove the catcher to take a mound visit. Talk about the weather, a teacher, a girlfriend, how stupid an opponent's socks look. Anything that could be construed as a normal conversation that could take the pitcher out of the element of feeling overwhelmed and back into the feeling that he is accustomed to.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Appropriate communication is a must between pitch and catcher. In HS my son anticipated that he would have problems talking with catchers, and for that matter other players down the road so he took HS and college Spanish.

Disclaimer: Some on this site may consider this a "racey" or smarta$$ thought, but he has found it beneficial in his playing career, and eventually may also help out in his future baseball related "real life" job.

No disclaimer necessary. It's a fact - if it wasn't there wouldn't be interpreters on MLB payrolls. Also, 2013's high school team has two students for whom Spanish is their primary and native language. Almost all the English-speaking players are taking Spanish in school and they use this as an opportunity to learn a baseball vocabulary and to help the Spanish-speaking players learn the English terminology.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:


Catchers should only go out for these reasons

1. crossed up on signs / make sure on same page with signs
2. talk about a scouting report on a hitter
3. adjust how they are going to approach someone that goes against the scouting report


There might be a few more but not too many. The pitcher pitches and the catcher catches. Neither one is a cheerleader or psychiatrist.

Should be the "Golden Rules" for new catchers. Any pitching advice tends to take a pitcher out of the game. Right up there with repeatidly putting down same sign and having the pitcher shake him off 10 times.

Was it Bob Gibson upon being approached by the catcher on the mound who said. " Get back there. The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it"

Thanks dswann

JH I will agree as long as it doens't happen very often. In very limited cases a catcher can possibly help to refocus but nowhere near as much as the OP is having to do with the pitcher in his case.

Son is a catcher. Catching coach told him long ago that once you hand the ball back to the pitcher, you've lost his ear. So anytime he visits the mound he holds on to the ball until he is done talking to the pitcher. The strategy has worked but als has led to many pitchers standing there with their hand held out...........

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Thanks dswann for the possible Bob Gibson quip...

Was it Bob Gibson upon being approached by the catcher on the mound who said " Get back there. The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it."

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To define the relationship between the pitcher and catcher is anything but boring, yet is crucial to any successful program.

Yes, I tell my catchers they have the tough job of keeping pitchers motivated and emotionally stable and more so on the field then in school.

I also teach my catchers I look to them to
be responsible for pitcher productivity and success.

Coaches can help with advice and encouragement between innings as well,

During in the field situations the catcher must provide the pitcher with more encouragement than advice.

Between innings, I always have the catcher sit next to the pitcher (that is unless a perfect is being tossed, and then the pitcher sits alone on the far side of the dugout or bench.)

During game situations but off the field, the catcher can provide that advise and encouragement.

I like it when catcher's call the game.
I have also had pitchers call there own game (and from the mound)

I am not a huge fan of the catcher calling time out, going to the mound, and whatever.

I teach my catchers to have some idea about
a pitcher's strengths and weaknesses, what is 'working' that inning, what's not working now.

To me, I am not fond of coaches calling signals or making situational decisions.

At any level, teach correctly and each pitcher will become quite capable of the fundamentals and will be playing the game correctly.

And yes, that is why Pitchers are #1 in the book.
Catchers are #2.

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
coach- I would add a #4 also. There are many times where a pitcher may feel as if they are a bit overwhelmed throughout the game. The mound can be a VERY lonely place when things aren't going your way, and the loneliness can seem like it lasts for days. Often times a pitcher can be so wrapped up in the situation around them or the emotions that they feel because of the happenings of the game that they lose their mental composure. Mental composure can be a difficult read for a coach or a catcher because it is sometimes difficult to see a pitcher losing it (the "poker face" remains on). I feel that during times of the game that might seem a bit overwhelming for a pitcher, or a time of a game where the momentum seems to be turning for the other team's benefit, it could behoove the catcher to take a mound visit. Talk about the weather, a teacher, a girlfriend, how stupid an opponent's socks look. Anything that could be construed as a normal conversation that could take the pitcher out of the element of feeling overwhelmed and back into the feeling that he is accustomed to.

I agree with you here JH, but as coach2709 stated, hopefully it doesn't happen often. In the classic movie BULL DURHAM, one of the funniest clips in the movie was the visit to the mound by the assistant/pitching coach after Crash and the entire infield met at the mound....

(Asst Coach) It looks like a convention out there, pretty soon they’re gonna call the role. (Head coach) GET OUT THERE!. (Asst coach) whats goin on here? (Crash) Well.. one of Knuke’s eyelids are jammed, and we need a live chicken?.. live chicken to get the hex off of Jose’s glove, and nobody seems to know what to get Jimmy or Millie for their wedding present. We are dealing with a lotta "Stuff" out here. (Asst. coach) Well uhhh candlesticks are always nice and maybe a place setting…lets go get em.

Sometimes you just need to break things up to change the ryhthm of the game. Similar to a batter stepping out and calling time to break things up. As a pitcher (years ago), the last thing I wanted was my catcher to come out and tell me to hit my spots! Today, there's no doubt that my son wouldn't be a big fan either...on the other hand, a little joke, or conversation to help the pitcher relax (Besides the other 3 situations coach pointed out) should be welcome. Sometimes it comes down to the relationship the catcher has with his pitchers. Keep it simple, and keep it fun!

QUOTE]
(Asst Coach) It looks like a convention out there, pretty soon they’re gonna call the role. (Head coach) GET OUT THERE!. (Asst coach) whats goin on here? (Crash) Well.. one of Knuke’s eyelids are jammed, and we need a live chicken?.. live chicken to get the hex off of Jose’s glove, and nobody seems to know what to get Jimmy or Millie for their wedding present. We are dealing with a lotta "Stuff" out here. (Asst. coach) Well uhhh candlesticks are always nice and maybe a place setting…lets go get em.
[/QUOTE]

This makes a good point. I also agree with JH to a point. Another of my favorite lines is from "For the Love of the Game".

Gus Sinski: "The boys are all here for ya, we'll back you up, we'll be there, cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball, right now, right this minute, because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw."

I know its just a movie, but, how in the world can you not get motivated with that line. The last 2 lines are the important ones in this case I think. These young men are still motivated by the strike out. Just throw it to the mit and let the team do their jobs. Just focus on that, hitting your spots.

Maybe what he's learning is what we as adults may take for granted. The skill to recognize that communication is a personal, individualized and unique thing. He just needs to figure out how to communicate with this particular pitcher. (easier said than done) He atleast knows of one way that doesn't work.

quote:

The boys are all here for ya, we'll back you up, we'll be there, cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball, right now, right this minute, because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw."

Hey- Are you sure this wasnt a conversation that NY MET David Wright had with Billy Wagner some months ago as teammates?

Bear, thats a great post.

After a year of pounding some of the above thoughts into my 12yo son's head, I think he's starting to understand that his job isn't to give the pitcher useless advice - just to help them stay focused and relaxed.

Last night he called time after our pitcher walked his second batter in a row. He went out to the mound and spoke to the pitcher for about 10 seconds - they both started cracking up and he turned and jogged back to the plate. The pitcher settled down and struck out the next batter to end the inning.

When my son got back to the dugout I asked him what he had said...

"I told him him we needed Megan Fox and he was giving us Betty White."

If this baseball thing doesn't work out I guess he has a future in stand-up.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:

I like it when catcher's call the game.
I have also had pitchers call there own game (and from the mound)

I'm glad he's doing it from the mound! I could see him wearing himself out running behind home to give himself a sign and then running back out to shake the sign off and then running - well, you get the idea!

Sorry Bear, couldn't resist, Your comment "from the mound" just put that picture in my head...

But your post was great!

Back when my son caught, he used humor quite a bit...he's now SS and will still occasionally step up to the grass and say something to a pitcher he feels needs some words...