Play hard and play smart
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I'm sorry, but I consider it your problem and not theirs that you were down 9-1. I understand where you're coming from, but look at it from their perspective.. when do you get game situations where you can practice stuff?? It can't be practiced in practice because you don't have the game situation.
I was taught the scoreboard doesn't dictate the way you play the game.
I was taught the scoreboard doesn't dictate the way you play the game.
An 8 run lead is no time for mercy---I have to say coach at that point you can still pull it out===the onus is on you---is your team so bad they cannot make up 8 runs?
They were not showing you up at all--they were striving to make sure you did not get back up off the mat!!!
They were not showing you up at all--they were striving to make sure you did not get back up off the mat!!!
quote:Am I way out of line? Do any of you think along the same lines as I do?
Yep....Worry about your own team, not how the other coach chooses to run his team and and go back and fix whatever it is that made your team get pasted.
Make your team better.
Who was bunting and stealing? Starters? Backups that need the experience? 8 runs isn't an insurmountable lead in hs ball.
And I never take my foot of the gas till we hit the 10-run rule mark, for pitching purposes if nothing else.
Who was bunting and stealing? Starters? Backups that need the experience? 8 runs isn't an insurmountable lead in hs ball.
And I never take my foot of the gas till we hit the 10-run rule mark, for pitching purposes if nothing else.
i ease up depending on team..10 i quit running and bunting..12 usually stop being aggressive.
I believe it was Whitey Herzog back in the 80's who said,"When they stop hitting home runs, I'll stop running."
Now this was pro ball, but if you are playing a good team, as soon as you let up, the players let up, and next thing you know you have a 2 run lead or you are behind.
Take it as a compliment that they didn't want to give your team a chance to come back. It is a different way to look at it, but I would say they respected your team too much to let up.
Now this was pro ball, but if you are playing a good team, as soon as you let up, the players let up, and next thing you know you have a 2 run lead or you are behind.
Take it as a compliment that they didn't want to give your team a chance to come back. It is a different way to look at it, but I would say they respected your team too much to let up.
Nicholas25...I understand that if you were taught that way, then we might expect you to react the same way. Understandable.
But I'm with the others. Worry about your own club and getting better. If the other team was standing there calling your team losers and bums, then that is one thing. If they were playing the game within the rules, then you gotta suck it up man.
Are you sure your reaction isn't emotional due to a good butt spanking?
But I'm with the others. Worry about your own club and getting better. If the other team was standing there calling your team losers and bums, then that is one thing. If they were playing the game within the rules, then you gotta suck it up man.
Are you sure your reaction isn't emotional due to a good butt spanking?
local middle school scored 15 runs in first inning. Coach was flumoxed as to what to do. He slowed down the game after the 5th run scored. He asked the umpires what to do with out insulting the other team. (They called the game at 3 1/2 innings.) (Team was clearly out of its league. our side was cheering for them - they seemed like a group of good kids.)
Some of the things I've heard suggested is to bunt, bat from the other side, slow the runners down. 9 runs isn't a lot. Maybe the other coach thought you were strong enough to come back. I've seen it done - been on both ends.
Some of the things I've heard suggested is to bunt, bat from the other side, slow the runners down. 9 runs isn't a lot. Maybe the other coach thought you were strong enough to come back. I've seen it done - been on both ends.
as someone said above, 8 runs is not that insurmountable. pitchers could change, etc. maybe in the last inning, but not in the 6th. I wouldn't consider it before it was 10 runs.
and i agree, the coach may have been showing you some respect, thinking you could've come back. apparently, you didn't agree with him..
thinking back, this happened to our team when we were eleven. we were getting crushed. we lost 19-0. the other team was bunting. I was livid. but 19-0 at age 11 is a little different..
and i agree, the coach may have been showing you some respect, thinking you could've come back. apparently, you didn't agree with him..
thinking back, this happened to our team when we were eleven. we were getting crushed. we lost 19-0. the other team was bunting. I was livid. but 19-0 at age 11 is a little different..
My point is that if I'm up by 8 in the 6th and if I push 2 more runs across the game is over (mercy rule - 10 after 5) then my kid at 70 pitches doesn't have to go back out and I don't have to burn another pitcher because I have a game tomorrow and one on Monday I'll squeeze the last sonofabitch home. I'll explain it to you afterwards, but I'll do it and sleep fine.
I've seen 9 runs scored in a 1/2 inning between 2 good varsity teams. It's hs baseball. Get better.
I've seen 9 runs scored in a 1/2 inning between 2 good varsity teams. It's hs baseball. Get better.
Amen ironhorse - you said it best. Get the game over with as quickly as possible. I say go for 12 runs so you can have a couple to play with. 9 - 1 is not a bad score and is not impossible to come back on.
Look your upset and ticked off and it's understandable but you cannot control what the other team does. Control what you can control. Make your team better.
Each time you say that the other team is bush league to your players you send the wrong message. They are now given an excuse for why they got beat - the other team is jerks.
Put the responsibility back on your kids. They messed up so they have to get better.
You want to let up after 8 run lead then that is your choice but who's fault is it if the other team comes back on you? Either way - up or down - your team allowed the other team to score 8 runs on you.
Look your upset and ticked off and it's understandable but you cannot control what the other team does. Control what you can control. Make your team better.
Each time you say that the other team is bush league to your players you send the wrong message. They are now given an excuse for why they got beat - the other team is jerks.
Put the responsibility back on your kids. They messed up so they have to get better.
You want to let up after 8 run lead then that is your choice but who's fault is it if the other team comes back on you? Either way - up or down - your team allowed the other team to score 8 runs on you.
If you are talking High School Federation rules and the pitcher's innings are limited, then try and get the game over with as soon as possible, and however you feel you can do it. I just don't see how what the other team does (swing away, sac bunt, steal, whatever), should have any impact on how you feel. Sorry.
Nicholas25,
I understand where your coming from and believe that when a team is way ahead you should call the dogs off to a certain degree. That being said I don't think 8 runs is that big of a lead. Two weeks ago my sons team was losing 7 to 0 going into the last inning. After a three run shot and a solo shot, then before you new it the game ended in a 7-7 tie. Teams will also bunt, steal and squeeze to get those last 2 runs so they can get to the ten run rule and save their pitching.
JMO
Banditsbb
I understand where your coming from and believe that when a team is way ahead you should call the dogs off to a certain degree. That being said I don't think 8 runs is that big of a lead. Two weeks ago my sons team was losing 7 to 0 going into the last inning. After a three run shot and a solo shot, then before you new it the game ended in a 7-7 tie. Teams will also bunt, steal and squeeze to get those last 2 runs so they can get to the ten run rule and save their pitching.
JMO
Banditsbb
quote:Originally posted by Nicholas25: In fact, I have never been around a genuine baseball man, who doesn't understand the unwritten rules and codes of the game. When you are up by a bunch late, just play the game, don't try to squeeze them across.
No offense, but since in another thread you were saying that even though it's your first year coaching you think you're qualified and ready to be a head coach, statements like this tell me your not.
Get some experience and then revisit some of these topics.
Nicholas25
Just a word or two of advice from an old warhorse---loose the idealistic approach if you want to last in this game--- idealism does not lead to success
Just a word or two of advice from an old warhorse---loose the idealistic approach if you want to last in this game--- idealism does not lead to success
A couple of comments:
1) They were probably trying to get to +10 for the mercy rule and end the debacle.
2) Based on the way you guys played, you should be happy for them to GIVE you outs via the bunt.
3) Why is +8 the magic number? Personally, I will call off the dogs when we are +11 but not before then. If you want to complain, get someone out.
1) They were probably trying to get to +10 for the mercy rule and end the debacle.
2) Based on the way you guys played, you should be happy for them to GIVE you outs via the bunt.
3) Why is +8 the magic number? Personally, I will call off the dogs when we are +11 but not before then. If you want to complain, get someone out.
quote:Originally posted by Nicholas25:
Brother, you have never seen me organize and run a practice, teach a fundamental skill, motivate a player, make a strategic move, or do anything to benefit a baseball program.
No I haven't. My point is there is more to it than just those things. Such as when to be idealistic and when to be realistic. I don't mean any offense by that. I've been in your shoes.
I still say you would be best served by working under a "genuine baseball man" for a few years. Being a player, knowing the game, and being a successful coach are vastly different skill sets.
ps - I bet the butler coach wasn't made HC his first year in coaching. There's a reason why.
If you coach long enough you will lose and win a game that you were up or down 8 in the 6th inning.
quote:
Some of the things I've heard suggested is to bunt, bat from the other side, slow the runners down. 9 runs isn't a lot. Maybe the other coach thought you were strong enough to come back. I've seen it done - been on both ends.
Gimmicks like batting from the opposite side is much more insulting and rubbing it into the face of the losers. Play it straight up.
Slowing down the runners is fine as long as teams aren't slowing it down so much like if a batter hits a gap shot to the fence and only takes a single when it was a legit double.
quote:Am I way out of line? Do any of you think along the same lines as I do?
You asked a question about how people felt in a certain situation and now people have responded how they felt. You got answers you didn't want to hear and now you are telling us we got you wrong.
No offense but you aren't ready to be a head coach. There is so much more to it than making out a line up card, creating / executing a practice schedule or running drills. This stuff is easy compared to the rest of it.
Nobody says you have to like losing but you have to learn how to handle it.
THe other night we got mercy ruled and it was just like how you explained your game. We played very ugly. My guys started complaining that the other team was stealing and stuff. I just told them if you don't like then get them out. It wasn't the other team's fault we played terrible.
Remember this - it's not the score you should be embarassed by but the performance of your team. One of them you can control - the other you cannot.
I am taking much of this response from a previous post of mine........an 8 run lead in HS baseball is not BUSH.......and it isnt BUSH in college ball either....
I have umpired many of these types of games and I am a firm believer in playing the game out. There are rules to cover lopsided games.
The object of baseball is to score more runs than your opponent. Play the game hard until such time as the rules end the game.
(In PA it is 15 runs after 3 innings, 10 runs after 5.)
Too many times in my career I have seen injury come about when players pull up or take it easy, or bat from the other side of the plate, or play positions that they normally dont play. I feel the risk or the fun is just not worth it....
Now, once the run rule is reached, I am not saying you should continue to hit and run, steal or be super agressive on the basepaths, but just play the game.........
To me, this is an opportunity to play your team members who wouldnt normally get to.....get the score you need, and then substitute.....the game is served, players get game time, coaches get to see next years team in action while garnering real varsity experience....
In many cases, the coaches will come and ask that I call "lots of strikes"..........I understand that thought but cant bring myself to do it. 2 reasons....one I just cant call a ball a strike...personal hangup.....not in my makeup.......and 2 it screws up my zone.......I have worked for years to develop what I call a consistent zone and by wavering I find that its harder to concentrate on my zone in the next game.
As a coach you will see your team come back from a large deficit to win and you will feel different.....or you are going to get your jock handed to you 22-0 and really know what bush is.......an 8 run lead isnt ....
just my .02
I have umpired many of these types of games and I am a firm believer in playing the game out. There are rules to cover lopsided games.
The object of baseball is to score more runs than your opponent. Play the game hard until such time as the rules end the game.
(In PA it is 15 runs after 3 innings, 10 runs after 5.)
Too many times in my career I have seen injury come about when players pull up or take it easy, or bat from the other side of the plate, or play positions that they normally dont play. I feel the risk or the fun is just not worth it....
Now, once the run rule is reached, I am not saying you should continue to hit and run, steal or be super agressive on the basepaths, but just play the game.........
To me, this is an opportunity to play your team members who wouldnt normally get to.....get the score you need, and then substitute.....the game is served, players get game time, coaches get to see next years team in action while garnering real varsity experience....
In many cases, the coaches will come and ask that I call "lots of strikes"..........I understand that thought but cant bring myself to do it. 2 reasons....one I just cant call a ball a strike...personal hangup.....not in my makeup.......and 2 it screws up my zone.......I have worked for years to develop what I call a consistent zone and by wavering I find that its harder to concentrate on my zone in the next game.
As a coach you will see your team come back from a large deficit to win and you will feel different.....or you are going to get your jock handed to you 22-0 and really know what bush is.......an 8 run lead isnt ....
just my .02
Sorry to take so long to get back with you but we have had a pretty heavy schedule this week.
The "other" stuff really isn't easy to describe. It's the stuff that goes on that you really can't prepare for and nobody ever tells you about. It's something you just have to go through and experience.
To be honest with you I believe I was just like you 10 years ago - idealistic and have all the answers. I came to a place that had a horrible history in baseball and I was about 24 years old. I knew I would come in and change everything because I had all the answers. I thought everyone would love me and we would become a great baseball school.
I was an idiot - a complete moronic idiot.
Now I'm not saying that is how you are but you have projected an image through your posts that you know more than the head coach or would put in a better effort than the head coach. That might be the case but this is still a guy who has went through the "other stuff" and earned his leeway.
Basically the other stuff is....
balancing the egos of parents and players
dealing with the paperwork
working the umps
networking with other coaches
There is a bunch more stuff but I can't really describe it and I feel it's something you have to go through to understand what I am talking about. Maybe one of the other coaches can explain it better what I am talking about.
The "other" stuff really isn't easy to describe. It's the stuff that goes on that you really can't prepare for and nobody ever tells you about. It's something you just have to go through and experience.
To be honest with you I believe I was just like you 10 years ago - idealistic and have all the answers. I came to a place that had a horrible history in baseball and I was about 24 years old. I knew I would come in and change everything because I had all the answers. I thought everyone would love me and we would become a great baseball school.
I was an idiot - a complete moronic idiot.
Now I'm not saying that is how you are but you have projected an image through your posts that you know more than the head coach or would put in a better effort than the head coach. That might be the case but this is still a guy who has went through the "other stuff" and earned his leeway.
Basically the other stuff is....
balancing the egos of parents and players
dealing with the paperwork
working the umps
networking with other coaches
There is a bunch more stuff but I can't really describe it and I feel it's something you have to go through to understand what I am talking about. Maybe one of the other coaches can explain it better what I am talking about.
Back in the day when they did not have the 15 and 10 run rule as they have today in high school most coaches adhered to the as they say unwritten rule. But say today there is a 15 run rule after say 3 innings and a 10 run rule after 5 why not go the extra mile get the runs and go home. Less innings your guys have to pitch. Just a thought. It is not baseball but that is what those that make the rules have made the game today. As an old timer it is ugly but there is a reason.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nicholas25:
[QUOTE]
Will pray for you.
If your team is playing many others (ie. 99%) and
if any are ahead by 8 runs in the 3rd/4th inning, yes, several will pray for you after they bury you!
You team may never resurrect!
Mercy rule / guidelines in HS are debated at the beginning of the year. It typically becomes an umpire nightmare (who want more $$$). May you never find a mercy rule at D-1 colleges.
A seven run lead with metal is NOT safe anymore.
Lastly, no mercy rule enables teams to get players PT.
Peace
postscript: For those that have been on both sides, you know what this message is. For those that have only been on one side, and for a while (i.e Terps),
walking out to the bus, thru the oppositions battle space, and the trip home is........ humbling.) For those that have never seen or heard about the other side,...........you are long overdue!
[QUOTE]
Will pray for you.
If your team is playing many others (ie. 99%) and
if any are ahead by 8 runs in the 3rd/4th inning, yes, several will pray for you after they bury you!
You team may never resurrect!
Mercy rule / guidelines in HS are debated at the beginning of the year. It typically becomes an umpire nightmare (who want more $$$). May you never find a mercy rule at D-1 colleges.
A seven run lead with metal is NOT safe anymore.
Lastly, no mercy rule enables teams to get players PT.
Peace
postscript: For those that have been on both sides, you know what this message is. For those that have only been on one side, and for a while (i.e Terps),
walking out to the bus, thru the oppositions battle space, and the trip home is........ humbling.) For those that have never seen or heard about the other side,...........you are long overdue!
. Many years ago we got really smacked and the other team rubbed in real good. the next year the shoe was on the other foot. We were ahead by a bunch. I made my substitutions.(no reentry or mercy rule back then) I did not steal or bunt but I did not hold runners at third. If they could score I waved them in. Upon scoring a run one of the coaches yelled whats the matter did we not have enough runs. I calmly replied I have a good memory what goes around comes around. End of story
Here are a couple of things that you need to consider.
1. Do you think your team should have been able to compete with the other team, or were they that much better than you?
2. Were they executing these plays well or was your team struggling defensively?
3. When they were ahead by 8, were you still trying to win the game? Would you bunt and steal in order to get back in the game?
Personally, if we can end a game in 5 we will. I like to stay up by ten. We will steal or hit and run in order to stay out of a double play. Things also depend on our opponent. If we feel like we are that much stronger than our opponent and do not feel a threat, we will call off the dogs earlier. If we feel we are playing a strong team, we will do all we can to put them away early. That is respect for the game and your opponent. Do not let your players learn to let down in life when things go their way or they will not know what to do when things do not. That does not mean you should not show class. Running a squeeze play, or stealing against a weak opponent when up by a very large margin is not class, but it does not sound like you were a weak opponent in this case. I could be wrong.
1. Do you think your team should have been able to compete with the other team, or were they that much better than you?
2. Were they executing these plays well or was your team struggling defensively?
3. When they were ahead by 8, were you still trying to win the game? Would you bunt and steal in order to get back in the game?
Personally, if we can end a game in 5 we will. I like to stay up by ten. We will steal or hit and run in order to stay out of a double play. Things also depend on our opponent. If we feel like we are that much stronger than our opponent and do not feel a threat, we will call off the dogs earlier. If we feel we are playing a strong team, we will do all we can to put them away early. That is respect for the game and your opponent. Do not let your players learn to let down in life when things go their way or they will not know what to do when things do not. That does not mean you should not show class. Running a squeeze play, or stealing against a weak opponent when up by a very large margin is not class, but it does not sound like you were a weak opponent in this case. I could be wrong.
In baseball particularly sometimes good teams have as they say one of those days. Pitcher cant find the strike zone everything the other team hits finds a hole. so sometimes weakness is not an issue
quote:HSBBWeb Old Timer
Nicholas25,
I agree with Will that all teams can have one of those days. It sounds like that was the case for your team, tip your hat to the opponent and focus on preventing the things they did that you were not able to stop. When a bad team has a bad day everyone in the park knows it and you coach a little differently against that situation. That does not occur very often. Keep track when your team loses a game and you will usually see it is in one inning that the game takes a turn. If you lay down with a lead, you will be the coach giving the "if we play each inning with our best effort..." speech! Good luck to you, most coaches are good people, the one's that aren't will be very easy to spot; they will be the one's that lack success and class with the players, parents, and total program. These are things you will learn as you go along. This site is a good place to come and ask questions as well as share ideas.
I try to end the game as soon as I can, anything can happen in h.s. baseball.
As an example, last season we were up on team by 9 runs after 5. The opposing coach wanted to know if we wanted to call it (they are from a neighboring state that plays an 8 run rule). I suggested we continue, saying something like "the way your guys hit, coach, you're never out of it". Sure enough, they came back and beat us....and the team I was coaching won 30 games last season!
That's why I always stay agressive until I have no doubt it's over. To me there is absolutely no shame in sac bunting or stealing the game-ending/winning run into scoring position.
But I will admit there is a fine line between assuring yourself a win and running it up. I think it was Bobby Bowden that told Lou Holtz once.."Coach, it's not my job to keep my guys out of your end zone!".
As an example, last season we were up on team by 9 runs after 5. The opposing coach wanted to know if we wanted to call it (they are from a neighboring state that plays an 8 run rule). I suggested we continue, saying something like "the way your guys hit, coach, you're never out of it". Sure enough, they came back and beat us....and the team I was coaching won 30 games last season!
That's why I always stay agressive until I have no doubt it's over. To me there is absolutely no shame in sac bunting or stealing the game-ending/winning run into scoring position.
But I will admit there is a fine line between assuring yourself a win and running it up. I think it was Bobby Bowden that told Lou Holtz once.."Coach, it's not my job to keep my guys out of your end zone!".
I would probably call the dogs off around 11 or 12 runs up. You keep mentioning basketball and football but these are different sports where there is no mercy rule to stop a game and save a pitcher for either a tournament game or maybe for a conference game two days later. I agree you should probably stop fullcourt pressing up 30 pts with 2 minutes left because there is no mercy rule and obviously you have won the game. Yes, throwing a deep bomb with 2 minutes left in the fooball game up by 42 pts is probably bush because once again there is no mercy rule and you could just run the ball. An 8 run lead in the fifth inning or late in the game is not a given and if you can end it right now then there is no reason you shouldnt do that. Now if it was 17-0 and they were doing that then you may have a case. Just my two cents. I hope you have a good season.
quote:Originally posted by Nicholas25:
I realize I am in the minority with my views (at least on this site), and we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks guys for all of your replys.
hahaha...so you ask a question and don't get the answer you were looking for and you agree to disagree? Too funny.
quote:Originally posted by Nicholas25:
No Way Guys, we take full responsibility for our play. We do not allow excuses! Yesterday in practice the players hopefully learned a lesson, and payed a price for not showing up to play.
Nicholas, I'm an old veteran of the game. I've been in a few hundred wins (600+) and only about 150-200 losses. So, I hope that you think I've been around some. I've coached baseball in this country and was once honored to represent our country abroad in both Lithuania and Russia. You keep saying that you want to make sure that the game is taught right. Right in who's estimation? Who's unwritten rules are you going by? Who made you the judge on all of this? You have some great baseball people in this thread. I read some of their responses both in this thread and elsewhere on this site and to be honest, they have given you very sound advice. I don't want to offend any of them by leaving their names out but Will, Redbird et. al. have no stake in this and they have stated that this rule of 8 and no bunting and no stealing isn't an UNWRITTEN RULE. Heck, the advice to worry about your team is great advice. You don't have any control over the opponent. Control what you do. You can take a situation like this and make it what you want. My bet, and agreeing with the others, is that they wanted to short game you so that it would end. They'd save thier pitcher's arm and they'd get their players home. More than once or twice I've done this and no one has ever said a word. Now, if it were a larger lead and we had the game won, then, that might have been different.
Nicholas, I used the above quote from the first page and wanted to address this. So, are you suggesting that you punished these kids? That is what I take out of this. So, did you do baseball which they sorely need or did you run them? Did you run them telling them how much heart they lacked, how they backed off and how they are losers? Nicholas, I hope you didn't. If so, what you proved is that you took a bunch of guys that have limited skills and wasted a day when they could get better by replacing it with a day where you made them hate baseball. I'd appreciate knowing but really, that's ok. Nicholas, I've done this for a long time as I've said, don't assume that because people don't agree with you that they are wrong and don't know baseball. Use these resources to improve. Don't take it all personal. You have a lot of people here that have been there and done that. Believe me, I'm in awe of a few in this thred. Take care!
Ironhorse, great comment on page 1.
quote:We played terrible yesterday, struggled in every aspect of the game. We were down 9-1 late in the game What inning? and the opposing team sac. bunted twice, Did these result in two outs? and stole bases! I was furious! I was taught that if you were up by 8 or more late in the game How late in the game? you quit putting runners in motion, and held runners when they get to third base. I do note see a reason to sac. bunt late in the game when you are up by 8 or more. Neither can I! I consider this bush league. As someone who loves the game, and loves to see it taught the right way, this frustrates me. You would think a high school head coach would understand the unwritten rules of the game.
A couple other things I'd like to know about this situation aside from those in red above. Did the opponents have reserves in the game at that time? Once again, how late in the game? Last inning?
I also have a question for all the coaches posting here. Have you ever sac bunted in the last inning with an 8 run lead? And... Have you ever sac bunted ever with an 8 run lead?
I have coached well over a thousand games and honestly can not ever remember once putting on a sac bunt with an 8 run lead. I have continued to run with an 8 run lead, though.
I think it's embarrassing to give a player the bunt sign with an 8 run lead. Please do not take this as not wanting to score or end the game early.
I do understand the value in ending the game early if possible, just would rather do it without bunting. I'm guessing that most of you guys posting here would not give the bunt sign with an 8 run lead. Maybe I'm wrong!
quote:Originally posted by Nicholas25:quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:quote:Originally posted by Nicholas25:
No Way Guys, we take full responsibility for our play. We do not allow excuses! Yesterday in practice the players hopefully learned a lesson, and payed a price for not showing up to play.
Nicholas, I'm an old veteran of the game. I've been in a few hundred wins (600+) and only about 150-200 losses. So, I hope that you think I've been around some. I've coached baseball in this country and was once honored to represent our country abroad in both Lithuania and Russia. You keep saying that you want to make sure that the game is taught right. Right in who's estimation? Who's unwritten rules are you going by? Who made you the judge on all of this? You have some great baseball people in this thread. I read some of their responses both in this thread and elsewhere on this site and to be honest, they have given you very sound advice. I don't want to offend any of them by leaving their names out but Will, Redbird et. al. have no stake in this and they have stated that this rule of 8 and no bunting and no stealing isn't an UNWRITTEN RULE. Heck, the advice to worry about your team is great advice. You don't have any control over the opponent. Control what you do. You can take a situation like this and make it what you want. My bet, and agreeing with the others, is that they wanted to short game you so that it would end. They'd save thier pitcher's arm and they'd get their players home. More than once or twice I've done this and no one has ever said a word. Now, if it were a larger lead and we had the game won, then, that might have been different.
Nicholas, I used the above quote from the first page and wanted to address this. So, are you suggesting that you punished these kids? That is what I take out of this. So, did you do baseball which they sorely need or did you run them? Did you run them telling them how much heart they lacked, how they backed off and how they are losers? Nicholas, I hope you didn't. If so, what you proved is that you took a bunch of guys that have limited skills and wasted a day when they could get better by replacing it with a day where you made them hate baseball. I'd appreciate knowing but really, that's ok. Nicholas, I've done this for a long time as I've said, don't assume that because people don't agree with you that they are wrong and don't know baseball. Use these resources to improve. Don't take it all personal. You have a lot of people here that have been there and done that. Believe me, I'm in awe of a few in this thred. Take care!
Ironhorse, great comment on page 1.
Thank you coach for your reply. I do not believe in running a team for losing. I do believe a team needs to be sent a message that it is not ok to show up not ready to play baseball. Before I get asked the question, I did not determine they were not ready to play simply because we played terrible! I determined we were not reay to play when we had FIVE players who up late for pregame work before we hit the road (there was not school). As a coach, and I am sure you will agree, you know when your team is ready to play and when they are not. We always run after we stretch and before we throw. We stepped the intensity of our running up to teach a lesson. Then we went to work to correct the fundamental mistakes we made during the course of the game. We had a very nice practice teaching baseball, we would never waste an invaluable opportunity on the field, to only run. As you know, there are not many off days when the season begins, they are precious, and can not be wasted. We have played with a lot of heart, determination, and passion since. I appreciate all you coaches, players, parents, and fans on this website. I wish you nothing but the best.
I would say this is the first problem. They shouldn't be able to "step it up" when running. It should be full-go already.
The difference is these games have time limits. As a basketball coach I can decide no way, no how does the other team have enough time to mount a comeback. In baseball if the team that's behind gets hot, they get all the time they want for a comeback.quote:If you were a basketball coach and a team was fullcourt pressing up by 30 late in game, would that have an impact on how you feel? If you were a football coach and the opposing team was throwing it deep down the field up by 4 touchdowns late in the game, would that have an impact on how you feel?
quote:Originally posted by Nicholas25:
Our program has a new direction, and sometimes you have to teach kids that the old ways are no longer acceptable.
Nicholas, and that is a great idea. However, you do it in several ways. Bulldog19 was a fiery competitor. I coached against him and he knows the program I ran. He'd be the first to acknowledge that the coaching staff at his school as well as myself get after it. However, we get the kids to buy into it. It isn't overnight. In the end, if you care about the fundamentals and teach the game and then have the kids come along beside you, you'll make it a program. What you're going to have to first do is discover how to make it a program and not just a team.
Here is something for you to think about and what I call, The Qualities of a Baseball Knight.
1. He wants the toughest and best competition in practice and in games because it makes him better.
2. He would rather his team win conference than himself make All-Conference.
3. Whether in the game or not, he wants all of his teammates to do well.
4. He practices hard and pays the price because he knows that most Baseball games are won or lost due to preparation.
5. He deals honestly with his coaches and teammates. He understands that disloyalty to either coaches or teammates hurts the team and will not be tolerated.
6. He never assesses blame.
7. He pays attention to detail.
8. He never likes losing but he is gracious in losing. He understands that he represents his team, coaches, school and community.
9. He will never back down from competition.
10. He practices to make small strides in his game each and every day to enable him to be a complete baseball player by the end of his playing career as a Knight.
11. He realizes that his off-court behaviors, demeanor and attitude affect the team, coaching staff, school and community.
12. He realizes that if we lose, it is not “his fault.” Losing is a team loss. He also realizes that if we win, it is not strictly because of him. Winning is a team win.
13. He realizes that the difference between most players is not so great that hard work cannot overcome it.
14. He puts the time and effort in during the off-season in the plyo-metric and weight conditioning program to enable his team to have success.
15. He would rather build character than be a character!
This or things like this is the first step to building a program. Then, great teams will follow. However, you have to get a tradition started first.
Nicholas,
After you have thought through the list I provided, here is something else to think on. What do you say to the players in practice? That is important! I have sayings that I constantly scream, say, repeat, ...
Nicholas, you can go to our Middle School and ask any ball player any of these and they'll instantly know them. In fact, you can go all the way down to 4th grade and you'll find some young men that will know them. That is how you turn a program around. You know what, until then you're going to get your lunch handed to you. BUT, once you have it moving and growing, it will thrive on itself. Winning will beget winning IF you allow it to happen. JMHO!
After you have thought through the list I provided, here is something else to think on. What do you say to the players in practice? That is important! I have sayings that I constantly scream, say, repeat, ...
- Take one day off and you know it. Take two days off and your opponent knows it. Take three days off and everyone knows it.
- Repetition is no fun but it's the reason we have won.
- In the warrior's code there's no surrender. Though your body says quit, your spirit cries never. Deep in your soul's an undying ember that knows it you against you. That's the paradox that drives us all.
- Don't be sorry. Be better!
- There are three types of people in this world. Those that makes things happen. Those that watch things happen. And, those to whom things happen!
- Excellence IS EXPECTED!
Nicholas, you can go to our Middle School and ask any ball player any of these and they'll instantly know them. In fact, you can go all the way down to 4th grade and you'll find some young men that will know them. That is how you turn a program around. You know what, until then you're going to get your lunch handed to you. BUT, once you have it moving and growing, it will thrive on itself. Winning will beget winning IF you allow it to happen. JMHO!
Nicholas, you want to remind us of your situation again.. I went to check and your first post had been edited..
If I remember correctly, you're an assistant coach under a head coach who has been there awhile, right? Why exactly would there be massive change all the way through the program if the head coach is still there?
If I remember correctly, you're an assistant coach under a head coach who has been there awhile, right? Why exactly would there be massive change all the way through the program if the head coach is still there?
This is a super thread, especially the second half, thanks to all who have posted for some great stuff.
