Dilemma

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
Batting Avg. - .099

Uhhhhh...I wouldn't be saying much until my kid can hit.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
Batting Avg. - .099

Uhhhhh...I wouldn't be saying much until my kid can hit.

Started every varsity game as a freshman at 5A school. Hit .307 during the season and .400 during the playoffs. Batting Avg. - .099 after 10 summer league games.

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
Started every game as a freshman at 5A school. Hit .307 during the season and .400 during the playoffs. Batting Avg. - .099 after 10 summer league games.

It's not about what he DID, but about what he does with each at bat. And while win/loss record may not be important to you as a parent, I GUARANTEE you it's important to that coach/club. IMO, I would tell my kid to work hard in his downtime to improve his hitting and stick it out where ever the coach thinks he can help the team. Besides, did the coach tell him he will NEVER be at position X again? My guess is no. Tell him to work hard to earn his position back.

But BY ALL MEANS, you WILL NOT get a refund. Besides, are you sure you wanna teach your kid to quit when things don't work out the way he expects the should?

quote:

Originally posted by NuffSaid:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TedWilliams:
Besides, are you sure you wanna teach your kid to quit when things don't work out the way he expects the should?

I do think the parents should teach the kid that a man's word means something. In this case, the coach flat out lied. Parents have plenty of evidence of such. Are we telling parents give us $X,000 for two months of baseball but don't ask us for anything, don't expect any accoutability, just sit in the stands and worship us as the almighty summer league coach. Right.....

i say if position X is catcher be grateful that he can play other positions against excellent competition.he was a frosh and played all year. if he played catcher during those h.s. games, by now he has dead legs and needs to stand. i hope this move by summer coach is in the kids best interest.if he ain't a catcher disregard this post.

Obviously, we only know of the situation as it's been detailed in this post and I'm not bashing the young man or the parents when I say that he's probably fairly lucky to be on the field only hitting .099. I hope you guys get what you're looking for and best of luck to Junior.

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:

Started every game as a freshman at 5A school. Hit .307 during the season and .400 during the playoffs.

Ummmm....congrats?

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:

Batting Avg. - .099 after 10 summer league games

Dude, you're kid still isn't hitting .100. What about the parents of the kid on the bench who's hitting .300 without regular AB's? Didn't they pay $X,000, too? But they weren't smart enough to get a guarantee I bet.


Wanna teach a life lesson? Let your kid play his way into the lineup and stop coddling him. Some people in life lie. How will your kid respond to adversity? Quit and find another team with "guaranteed" time? Let mommy and daddy call the people in charge? God bless America.

God bless America.[/QUOTE]

Right. We don't hold people accountable anymore. Lie, commit adultry (but let's call it an affair, that sounds nicer), have a few drinks before you get in that car, have *** before marraige and go ahead and get an abortion, no need to work the state will take care of you....God bless America is right.

quote:

Originally posted by Catcherz_Dad:
I hope you guys get what you're looking for and best of luck to Junior.

We were looking for reps so Junior could get better. We started looking in NOVEMBER 2010. I posted his batting average for full disclosure but that seems to be what everyone wants to focus on. So far no one cares that we were upfront in NOVEMBER and the coach LIED.

At what dollar amount can someone expect honesty? $1, $1,000, $10,000?

quote:

Started every game as a freshman at 5A school. Hit .307 during the season and .400 during the playoffs. Batting Avg. - .099 after 10 summer league games.

Started on Varsity?

quote:

Originally posted by Old School79:

quote:

Started every game as a freshman at 5A school. Hit .307 during the season and .400 during the playoffs. Batting Avg. - .099 after 10 summer league games.

Started on Varsity?

Hehe...yes, started on Varsity. That changes the message a little doesn't it.

Obviously, only you know the circumstances of the conversation, but I can't imagine a coach making an iron clad promise to a kid that he'll play a position an entire season regardless of performance or any other circumstance. Seems to me he gave the kid a chance and decided the lineup was stronger configured other ways.

My advice would be (1) take this as input that maybe junior fits better at another position and/or (2) even if position X is where he belongs, experience at other positions can be invaluable particularly down the road as he looks at the next level.

Bottom line from my experience, if you can hit you'll have opportunities to play and if you don't, generally defensive prowess alone won't be enough to keep you in the lineup if there are other options that are hitting.

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:

Right. We don't hold people accountable anymore. Lie, commit adultry (but let's call it an affair, that sounds nicer), have a few drinks before you get in that car, have *** before marraige and go ahead and get an abortion, no need to work the state will take care of you....God bless America is right.

...let your kid hit .099 and blame the coach for altering his playing time...

I give up. I must be the one with unrealistic morals. I realize he needs to get better at that plate, hence the outlay of cash for him to play 2 months of summer ball. I never said he was going to get fewer at bats, I said he wasn't getting to play the position I purchased in NOVEMBER.

Summer league parent motto:

'I will pay my money and not expect anything in return. I will not expect integrity or honesty from the coaches or the organization they represent. So help me hsbaseballweb posters..."

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:
...let your kid hit .099 and blame the coach for altering his playing time...

Is it the parents fault the kid can't hit or the paid coach? Hmmm.... Pay money, get nothing back. That's a good deal for someone.

If it were my son, I would tell him to make the most out of each opportunity in the field and at the plate no matter what position he is playing.

I'm positive that the coach intended to give him every chance at position X, but when he left for camp and the kid that played in position X in his absence played the field just as well and probably batted better than .099 should be given the same opportunity?

The coach must think highly of your son to keep playing him at Y and Z in hopes that his bat does come around.

Be thankful he is getting the playing time, even if its not the position he wants to play. It will make him a better well rounded player and person in the long run.

Ted---The cryo has given you a brain freeze.

You don't "purchase a position". All you can ask for is an opportunity. Sounds like Little Ted got one (which is all you can ask) and didn't make the most of it. If you're told that you won't have a chance to even compete for a playing spot then I think you have 'issues' but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Is it the parents' fault of the paid coach's fault that the kid is hitting double digits? Neither. It is the player's ultimate responsibility to get the job done.

Just my thoughts

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
I said he wasn't getting to play the position I purchased in NOVEMBER.

Wow.

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
Summer league parent motto:

'I will pay my money and not expect anything in return. I will not expect integrity or honesty from the coaches or the organization they represent. So help me hsbaseballweb posters..."

TedWilliams motto:

'I will pay my money and expect everything in return. It is ONLY about my kid. Performance on the field means nothing. This a business deal and nothing more. Now make my kid happy.

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
Is it the parents fault the kid can't hit or the paid coach? Hmmm.... Pay money, get nothing back. That's a good deal for someone.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not the parents' fault OR the coaches' fault. I've never seen coaches or parents swing a bat during a game.

It's ok for your son to be accountable. It's part of growing up.

Ok I just had to say something. ARE YOU SERIOUS??? My son played from T-ball to the Perfect game last year and we were never promised a set postion!!!! Also, just a note: my son played Pitcher only in Perfect game! 17 & 18 yrs olds. Two weeks. I figured up everytime he got on the mound it was costing me almost $450 a game to see him perform!! This is Select Ball!! I agree let Junior realize that nothing in life is fair or Free. And the parents need to back off and let him decide if Select is for him. Many times it is not! Or they get Burned out! God Bless America! REALLY??

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
Is it the parents fault the kid can't hit or the paid coach? Hmmm.... Pay money, get nothing back. That's a good deal for someone.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not the parents' fault OR the coaches' fault. I've never seen coaches or parents swing a bat during a game.

It's ok for your son to be accountable. It's part of growing up.

Dude, whoever you are...I like you. We are more alike than this thread would suggest.

quote:

Originally posted by michelle33:
I figured up everytime he got on the mound it was costing me almost $450 a game to see him perform!!

You have more money than I do. It's hard to find work when you're a frozen head.

Does it offend you that I said to the coach (in November) "I want my kid to play 'X' position all summer, I don't mind if you say 'no' and I don't mind if he plays REC ball but this is what I expect for $X,000." Other coaches said 'not going do it' and I still have a good relationship with them. This coach said 'I'm OK with that, give me your money.'

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:
You have more money than I do. It's hard to find work when you're a frozen head.

Does it offend you that I said to the coach (in November) "I want my kid to play 'X' position all summer, I don't mind if you say 'no' and I don't mind if the plays REC ball but this is what I expect for $X,000." Other coaches said 'not going do it' and I still have a good relationship with them. This coach said 'I'm OK with that, give me your money.'

If this is the actual conversation then you both handled this wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by RLB:
If this is the actual conversation then you both handled this wrong.

When you are going to spend money on a product that is offered by multiple sources and cost over $1,000, how do you handle it? Do you have any expectations?

Naive of me but I let mine compete for whatever position he desires to play with the knowledge that ultimately the coach will place him where it best benefits the team. On occasion, those positions are one and the same on other occurrences they have not been. Competition among the boys will drive them to excel and things sort themselves out.

As a parent, I question any other parent who comes in demanding or requesting a specific position(unless maybe its a pitcher or catcher). Successful coaches and organizations know how to put players in the best position to succeed which ultimately helps the team. Making these requests puts kid before team and to me that is wrong but.....I am naive.

So if your son is hurting the team by his performance, what does the coach say to the other parents and kids that signed up to be on a competitive team.

"Sorry, I've got to play Jr., even though he's not performing up to expectations and I've got better options, but I made him a promise."

Did you make any guarantees on your son's performance? I'm betting that the coach made the assumption that he would hit better than a buck.

Just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:

quote:

Originally posted by RLB:
If this is the actual conversation then you both handled this wrong.

When you are going to spend money on a product that is offered by multiple sources and cost over $1,000, how do you handle it? Do you have any expectations?

You handled this wrong by requesting guarantees to begin with. The coaches that told you no were the ones that handled it correctly. The correct response to your poorly handled question is, 'we do not guarantee specific amounts of playing time nor specific positions but I can assure you each kid on the team will have the opportunity to earn a spot in the lineup.'

You are not realizing the future handicap you are putting on your kid. Realize that your son can't buy his way out of a job interview when he is done with college - if he is lucky enough to play baseball for years to come, this game just gets seemingly more unfair...in actuality it just gets more and more difficult with tougher breaks, the sooner you stop agenting the kid the better chance he will have at dealing with these breaks whether they are dealt to him in baseball or in a job interview.

You don't buy or pay for a position. You pay for many other aspects of the Summer, but a position is absolutely not one of them.


Also, if I were coaching I wouldn't have let him go on a week long church camp. You are the one that broke the commitment to the team.

quote:

Originally posted by RLB:

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:

quote:

Originally posted by RLB:
If this is the actual conversation then you both handled this wrong.

When you are going to spend money on a product that is offered by multiple sources and cost over $1,000, how do you handle it? Do you have any expectations?

You handled this wrong by requesting guarantees to begin with. The coaches that told you no were the ones that handled it correctly. The correct response to your poorly handled question is, 'we do not guarantee specific amounts of playing time nor specific positions but I can assure you each kid on the team will have the opportunity to earn a spot in the lineup.'

You are not realizing the future handicap you are putting on your kid. Realize that your son can't buy his way out of a job interview when he is done with college - if he is lucky enough to play baseball for years to come, this game just gets seemingly more unfair...in actuality it just gets more and more difficult with tougher breaks, the sooner you stop agenting the kid the better chance he will have at dealing with these breaks whether they are dealt to him in baseball or in a job interview.

You don't buy or pay for a position. You pay for many other aspects of the Summer, but a position is absolutely not one of them.


Also, if I were coaching I wouldn't have let him go on a week long church camp. You are the one that broke the commitment to the team.

Couldn't have said it better or more clearer, RLB.

Not more money just know that if I want my son to be seen by the best scouts you have to cough up thousands of dollars each year. My son will be playing college ball so obviously paying the money has paid off!! Good luck to you and your family!!

quote:

Originally posted by michelle33:
Not more money just know that if I want my son to be seen by the best scouts you have to cough up thousands of dollars each year. My son will be playing college ball so obviously paying the money has paid off!! Good luck to you and your family!!

OK, I have to hijack this post.
Your son is going to play college ball so the money has paid off. What if he plays 1 or 2 years, and then he's out of baseball? How many players start their college careers and actually finish them still on the field? If you spent $4k to $5k per summer for 4 years does it pay off?
I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I know of 7 kids right now that just finished their freshman year on college teams. 3 saw playing time, and two are already transferring after wasting a year of college.
How many really get that ROI on paying to play baseball?
Another kid I know never played summer baseball, but played for his HS team. Received a 50% scholarship offer to a DI JUCO. How did he make it without going all over the US playing select baseball?

quote:

Originally posted by Out in the sticks:

quote:

Originally posted by michelle33:
Not more money just know that if I want my son to be seen by the best scouts you have to cough up thousands of dollars each year. My son will be playing college ball so obviously paying the money has paid off!! Good luck to you and your family!!

OK, I have to hijack this post.
Your son is going to play college ball so the money has paid off. What if he plays 1 or 2 years, and then he's out of baseball? How many players start their college careers and actually finish them still on the field? If you spent $4k to $5k per summer for 4 years does it pay off?
I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I know of 7 kids right now that just finished their freshman year on college teams. 3 saw playing time, and two are already transferring after wasting a year of college.
How many really get that ROI on paying to play baseball?
Another kid I know never played summer baseball, but played for his HS team. Received a 50% scholarship offer to a DI JUCO. How did he make it without going all over the US playing select baseball?

Regarding ROI: there is risk in every investment. It is the family's decision to take the risk to spend the money on sources that do give the best opportunities for future success. This doesn't guarantee success though.

Also your sample size of 7 kids is entirely too small. Nearly every scholarship player in the Big 12, D1 JUCO, top tier NAIA's etc. played and invested money in baseball organizations. Expand that throughout the country and there is a ton of investments being returned throughout the country every year.

quote:

Originally posted by RLB:

quote:

Originally posted by Out in the sticks:

quote:

Originally posted by michelle33:
Not more money just know that if I want my son to be seen by the best scouts you have to cough up thousands of dollars each year. My son will be playing college ball so obviously paying the money has paid off!! Good luck to you and your family!!

OK, I have to hijack this post.
Your son is going to play college ball so the money has paid off. What if he plays 1 or 2 years, and then he's out of baseball? How many players start their college careers and actually finish them still on the field? If you spent $4k to $5k per summer for 4 years does it pay off?
I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I know of 7 kids right now that just finished their freshman year on college teams. 3 saw playing time, and two are already transferring after wasting a year of college.
How many really get that ROI on paying to play baseball?
Another kid I know never played summer baseball, but played for his HS team. Received a 50% scholarship offer to a DI JUCO. How did he make it without going all over the US playing select baseball?

Regarding ROI: there is risk in every investment. It is the family's decision to take the risk to spend the money on sources that do give the best opportunities for future success. This doesn't guarantee success though.

Also your sample size of 7 kids is entirely too small. Nearly every scholarship player in the Big 12, D1 JUCO, top tier NAIA's etc. played and invested money in baseball organizations. Expand that throughout the country and there is a ton of investments being returned throughout the country every year.

I understand my sample size of 7 kids is only a handful, but those guys are all I know of personally that made college rosters in 2011. There is a ton of investment being made during the summers. Are you saying that the $16-$20k that has been spent for 4 years of summer ball pays off because of making a roster, or that it equals out in what scholarship money is awarded to even out the investment?
I just see several kids that go to Junior College, D-III private schools, NAIA schools, etc.. and after 1-2 years they are out of baseball. I would think the percentages speak for themselves. Only the strong survive......

Fire away fellas...

quote:

Originally posted by Out in the sticks:

quote:

Originally posted by RLB:

quote:

Originally posted by Out in the sticks:

quote:

Originally posted by michelle33:
Not more money just know that if I want my son to be seen by the best scouts you have to cough up thousands of dollars each year. My son will be playing college ball so obviously paying the money has paid off!! Good luck to you and your family!!

OK, I have to hijack this post.
Your son is going to play college ball so the money has paid off. What if he plays 1 or 2 years, and then he's out of baseball? How many players start their college careers and actually finish them still on the field? If you spent $4k to $5k per summer for 4 years does it pay off?
I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I know of 7 kids right now that just finished their freshman year on college teams. 3 saw playing time, and two are already transferring after wasting a year of college.
How many really get that ROI on paying to play baseball?
Another kid I know never played summer baseball, but played for his HS team. Received a 50% scholarship offer to a DI JUCO. How did he make it without going all over the US playing select baseball?

Regarding ROI: there is risk in every investment. It is the family's decision to take the risk to spend the money on sources that do give the best opportunities for future success. This doesn't guarantee success though.

Also your sample size of 7 kids is entirely too small. Nearly every scholarship player in the Big 12, D1 JUCO, top tier NAIA's etc. played and invested money in baseball organizations. Expand that throughout the country and there is a ton of investments being returned throughout the country every year.

I understand my sample size of 7 kids is only a handful, but those guys are all I know of personally that made college rosters in 2011. There is a ton of investment being made during the summers. Are you saying that the $16-$20k that has been spent for 4 years of summer ball pays off because of making a roster, or that it equals out in what scholarship money is awarded to even out the investment?
I just see several kids that go to Junior College, D-III private schools, NAIA schools, etc.. and after 1-2 years they are out of baseball. I would think the percentages speak for themselves. Only the strong survive......

Fire away fellas...

I am saying there are plenty that aren't transferring and getting cut is all.

Please note my first paragraph on risk. This is the key to pretty much every thread created on Summer baseball that I read on this forum. It seems some fail to realize it is an opportunity with risk involved that could pay off.

One day I will be a father. I will asses my son's abilities. If he has a gift in music (he wouldn't get this from me) and enjoys the piano then I will decide to get him piano lessons at an early age. If he progresses and shows true skill then it may be something in which I would be willing to risk future monies with the thought that a musical scholarship is a possibility. If my kid likes baseball but isn't very good, I will encourage him to enjoy it but I wouldn't waste 20K traveling around when he could be developing other obvious talents.

I know that whatever my kid has ability in I will do what I can to give him the best opportunity to succeed. If I don't and I view it as, 'oh this has a poor ROI,' then I am the one that would live with the what if's (regret).

Going back to the original issue, I think there are a few things that go undefined.

1. After the coach supposedly agreed to allow Jr to play "X" position, you “handed the coach your money”. Did you make a check out to the coach or the organization? If you made the check out the organization, then the organization has some responsibility for their coaches. Did you ever check the coaches credentials? Had he ever played baseball in college or professionally? If a coach had a good record in his professional career, then the organization would stand by their decision to hire him and would value his opinion regarding all of his players.

2. You stated that you wanted your son to only play “X” position. Isn’t a player more versatile when he is able to step in and assume other positions when needed? If my son only played third base, then shame on me as parent to not give him the opportunity to experience and fully learn the game from all key positions. In my opinion, that is where leadership comes, able to step in and play a ballgame and get the job done. Teamwork is the entire team, not just the ability of one player, in one position. A good coach will see the potential in the player and help him in the areas that need the attention so he can be a better ballplayer.

3. Did your son ever take the time to talk to the coach? Coaches respect a ballplayer that is able to effectively communicate any disappointment in playing time. A respectable coach will give any ballplayer the chance to prove himself, but ultimately it’s the players responsibility to do the job. If he can’t get the job done, there will be someone else that can. That’s just life.

4. Last, when reading your original post, my deepest concern is that you wanted to “buy” your son a position. What does that tell the other players and their parents? That each position on the team has a price tag? Thank God that there is a coach out there that can’t be bought and doesn’t put a price on his players/positions, because that gives my son a fair chance to compete for a position based on his ability as a ballplayer, not according to my pocketbook.

Thank you StanMusial for asking questions pertinent to my original post. You have restored my faith in the hsbaseballweb audience.

1. Check was made out to the organization. I have reached out to the organization and they have not responded as of yet.
2. I've got 20 seasons of select baseball under my belt at this point and feel like I have a good understanding of the significance of those "3rd Weekend in June Elks Lodge 5 Team 15U Consolation Championships" so I really don't care if the summer team finishes above .500 for the season. I wanted my kid to enjoy his summer.
3. Yes, unfortunately it was after I had already 'spoken' to the coach. I have apologized to my son for that one.
4. It makes me smile this 'you can't buy a position talk'. The parent is the customer, the baseball organization is the supplier. In a free market the customer can negotiate anything he wants. I was very forthright with every coach who offered a spot on his team about what I felt I was buying. I didn't want a jersey, I didn't want a two month tryout, I wanted innings at position "X". My son goes to a public high school where I've had other kids play and I've never spoken to the coach about playing time in 6 years. In the summer, we as parents are paying for a product. The coach could have said I'll let him play position "X" for 3 innings a game and it will cost you 50% of the full fee. I may have gone for that.

quote:

Originally posted by StanMusial:
Going back to the original issue, I think there are a few things that go undefined.

1. After the coach supposedly agreed to allow Jr to play "X" position, you “handed the coach your money”. Did you make a check out to the coach or the organization? If you made the check out the organization, then the organization has some responsibility for their coaches. Did you ever check the coaches credentials? Had he ever played baseball in college or professionally? If a coach had a good record in his professional career, then the organization would stand by their decision to hire him and would value his opinion regarding all of his players.

2. You stated that you wanted your son to only play “X” position. Isn’t a player more versatile when he is able to step in and assume other positions when needed? If my son only played third base, then shame on me as parent to not give him the opportunity to experience and fully learn the game from all key positions. In my opinion, that is where leadership comes, able to step in and play a ballgame and get the job done. Teamwork is the entire team, not just the ability of one player, in one position. A good coach will see the potential in the player and help him in the areas that need the attention so he can be a better ballplayer.

3. Did your son ever take the time to talk to the coach? Coaches respect a ballplayer that is able to effectively communicate any disappointment in playing time. A respectable coach will give any ballplayer the chance to prove himself, but ultimately it’s the players responsibility to do the job. If he can’t get the job done, there will be someone else that can. That’s just life.

4. Last, when reading your original post, my deepest concern is that you wanted to “buy” your son a position. What does that tell the other players and their parents? That each position on the team has a price tag? Thank God that there is a coach out there that can’t be bought and doesn’t put a price on his players/positions, because that gives my son a fair chance to compete for a position based on his ability as a ballplayer, not according to my pocketbook.

Ted,

Why are you adamant that Jr play position "X" and only that position? To use an analogy, if I have an employee that "good" at his job and enjoys it, but I as the employer see other more valuable potential in him that will further his career, what should I do? Allow him to continue mediocre work that allows him to stagnate, or give him the opportunity to grow and become more valuable because of his versatile skills? I guess what I'm saying is that a parent we see things that our kids are capable of doing and want them to be successful, but there is value in what other people see in our kids as well.

As far as getting you're money back, I wouldn't expect it. Jr agreed to be a part of the team and did get playing time, which is probably more than other players got. I don't think any ballclub would refund the money because of a player didn't get to play position "X" the entire season. That message would be ****ing to any club.

For the first portion of the season each player should be given a relatively equal amount of playing time. After that you earn your time.

No wonder the team is a .500 team if you just have to pay for a spot and not earn anything.

Either the coach thought your kid would be really good so the "promise" was worth it, or he is a moron.

You act like you bought a lawn mower that isn't working right and you should get your money back.

And Stan was right, the kid should talk to the coach not you. He isn't in 2nd grade.

Did you pay more than other parents? If so I don't see where you have a legitimate gripe.

quote:

4. It makes me smile this 'you can't buy a position talk'. The parent is the customer, the baseball organization is the supplier. In a free market the customer can negotiate anything he wants. I was very forthright with every coach who offered a spot on his team about what I felt I was buying. I didn't want a jersey, I didn't want a two month tryout, I wanted innings at position "X". My son goes to a public high school where I've had other kids play and I've never spoken to the coach about playing time in 6 years. In the summer, we as parents are paying for a product. The coach could have said I'll let him play position "X" for 3 innings a game and it will cost you 50% of the full fee. I may have gone for that.

Ted, just stop. Your kid is not a product to barter with. You say you wanted him to enjoy the summer, let him enjoy it, he might like the other positions and learn something about himself and being a leader on this team. When you sell a car or a house and the buyer says they will only use it 3 days a week or on weekends do you take 50% of the asking price? If so, lets talk. When you buy groceries, clothes or go to the movies do you tell Mr Wal Mart that you only plan to wear this t-shirt once every 2 weeks so the price should be adjusted, or the movie is only 1/2 as long as Titanic, therefore... nope. that's the price. you either choose to pay it or you dont. You chose to pay the price for summer ball.

I think we all see where this 'transaction' ran off the rails, but I can't help but admire Ted's candid approach. I would say that the great majority of all of us have paid the thousands of dollars to the local programs in return for what we hope is quality coaching and long-lasting memories for our boys. Let's be honest with ourselves, however. How many times has the organization simply taken our money in exchange for some laundry? How many 10yo Patriot, DBAT, Tiger, [insert other club name here] teams are there out there that are simply wearing the "laundry"? Maybe Ted has a point here. The organizations are in this for one main reason and that's to be profitable. Why can't we as parents have some say in the product that we're buying? I realize that this is not the conventional view when it comes to team sports, but at what point is the line drawn between sports and business? Ted is not necessarily wrong here, but instead took an active approach as a consumer. And as a consumer, he has choices. He can pull his kid and jump to another team, sit tight and ride it out, or complain. Neither of which is really wrong in this situation if you view the parents as consumers. If the organization or team is profiting off of your payment, why are we not allowed a voice or input? Keep in mind though, Ted, while I quietly applaud your approach, Jr. will eventually have to earn his way. But I applaud nonetheless.

"What do you do as the parents? What do you do as the coach if parent calls 'BS' in an unfriendly manner? What do you do as the director of the club if the parents want their money back?"

Question #1 - complain to anyone with ears
Question #2 - in one ear and out the other
Question #3 - explain no refund policy

Hope your questions were answered.

I agree with Catcherz_Dad last post however.

quote:

Originally posted by PHS Fan:

quote:

4. It makes me smile this 'you can't buy a position talk'. The parent is the customer, the baseball organization is the supplier. In a free market the customer can negotiate anything he wants. I was very forthright with every coach who offered a spot on his team about what I felt I was buying. I didn't want a jersey, I didn't want a two month tryout, I wanted innings at position "X". My son goes to a public high school where I've had other kids play and I've never spoken to the coach about playing time in 6 years. In the summer, we as parents are paying for a product. The coach could have said I'll let him play position "X" for 3 innings a game and it will cost you 50% of the full fee. I may have gone for that.

Ted, just stop. Your kid is not a product to barter with. You say you wanted him to enjoy the summer, let him enjoy it, he might like the other positions and learn something about himself and being a leader on this team. When you sell a car or a house and the buyer says they will only use it 3 days a week or on weekends do you take 50% of the asking price? If so, lets talk. When you buy groceries, clothes or go to the movies do you tell Mr Wal Mart that you only plan to wear this t-shirt once every 2 weeks so the price should be adjusted, or the movie is only 1/2 as long as Titanic, therefore... nope. that's the price. you either choose to pay it or you dont. You chose to pay the price for summer ball.

Please tell me you're not an attorney. In each case you mention above, the consumer buys something from a supplier and then the CONSUMER gets to decide how much they use it. In the example we are dicussing on this post, the consumer buys something from a supplier and the SUPPLIER gets to decide how much the consumer who paid for the product gets to use it. Jeez......

quote:

Originally posted by StanMusial:
Ted,

Why are you adamant that Jr play position "X" and only that position? To use an analogy, if I have an employee that "good" at his job and enjoys it, but I as the employer see other more valuable potential in him that will further his career, what should I do? Allow him to continue mediocre work that allows him to stagnate, or give him the opportunity to grow and become more valuable because of his versatile skills? I guess what I'm saying is that a parent we see things that our kids are capable of doing and want them to be successful, but there is value in what other people see in our kids as well.

As far as getting you're money back, I wouldn't expect it. Jr agreed to be a part of the team and did get playing time, which is probably more than other players got. I don't think any ballclub would refund the money because of a player didn't get to play position "X" the entire season. That message would be ****ing to any club.

I'm not sure the Employer/Employee example has any relevance to this discussion. The Employer (the guy writing the checks) can tell the Employee (the guy cashing the checks) to do whatever he wants. In this case the guy cashing the checks told the guy writing the check one thing and then did another.

Maybe the example doesn't mean anything to you but it was an ANALOGY! If you don't like the team go somewhere else but you've already invested your money. If you leave it teaches your child to quit when the going gets tough.

Ted, this is select baseball. If you wanted rep time for Jr. take him to a field and work with him. I appreciate every kid that gets out on a field and EARNS his position. That's the way for the kid to own his achievement, not get it handed to him on a platter.

quote:

Originally posted by StanMusial:
If you wanted rep time for Jr. take him to a field and work with him.

How many scouts will be at this field? Sorry...couldn't resist!


I personally can see a little of both sides. I've experienced a situation with one of the big clubs that didn't sit right with me. We as parents are paying the coach's salary. I do think there should be some two-way communication and not a deaf ear from the coach or club. When I (it was 10U) brought up an issue the coach refused to listen and threatened to kick Jr. off the team. To this day I know he was wrong with what he did. But he is soley in charge and can do whatever he wants. We all sign away any rights to question that when we put our John Hancock on the dotted line.

So which is better? To quit the team and move and as some of you say "teach you child to quit" or to stay and bend over and teach your child that they have to take whatever is dished out? I guess this goes back to the title of this thread.

Fortunately now my son has a great team, he loves his teammates and has a great coach. Life is good for him!

Ted, sounds like you were misled and deserve your money back. However, IMO you were naive in your approach of this situation and you're not doing junior any favors by trying to micro-manage his development -- both from a mental and physical perspective.

I find it hard to believe a coach would give an iron clad guarantee of what and how much of a position a kid would play throughout a season, but if it happened and the coach doesn't live up to the commitment, then the organization should refund the money and reprimand the coach or return junior to position X, inform the other players on the team of the commitment and offer them a chance to leave the team and get a refund.

quote:

Originally posted by StanMusial:
Maybe the example doesn't mean anything to you but it was an ANALOGY!

Unless we have a common language (words) we will not be able to communicate effectively. In this case, the scenario you presented of Employer/Employee was the exact opposite of the situation being discussed on this post.

a•nal•o•gy
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.

You see the heart and the pump are doing the same thing. On this post Party A is Paying Party B and Party B is telling Party A what to do. In your scenario, Party A is Paying Party B AND Party A is telling Party B what to do. I agree 100% with your Employer/Employee scenario.

I have a question for you, Ted, that i guess is being over - looked: what does you son want to do? isn't that what is important? Does he like the team he is on and want to stay put, playing when and where the coach tells him to play? or does he want off the team? You see, i have found in my own experience that most of the time my son is completely ok with being pulled from the game so another teammate ( who he really likes) can get playing time. he understands that every player on his team is good and therefore the playing time has to be shared. Sometimes i think the parents take it harder than the players do when their son is on the bench. Have you asked your son what he wants to do? maybe that is a good starting point. He just may surprise you. High school boys are like that!

Bidding on positions is just fundamentally wrong to me. Trust the coaches judgment and roll with it. If junior doesn't get the playing time he feels he deserves or isn't seeing the positions he desires then junior needs to address with coach what he can do to achieve his goals.

I envision a parent between innings popping out to the 3rd base coaches box with his ATM card as coach whips out his card swipper to be paid for the inning junior just got at his guaranteed spot...good times.

Takes a lot of the fun out of the game and diminishes some of the coaches expertise.

On another note is it possible that because junior knew\thought he was guaranteed a position he let up and didn't focus on earning his spot as much as he otherwise would have?

quote:

Maybe, just maybe, it's not the parents' fault OR the coaches' fault. I've never seen coaches or parents swing a bat during a game.

It's ok for your son to be accountable. It's part of growing up.

Oh no, the cat's out of the bag. Maybe, he will figure it out now

Interesting thread. I, like CatcherzDad (previous page), kind of admire Ted's candidness and direct approach...particularly with this thread. He's taken some lumps but presents some though-provoking sentiments.

BTW, as I read all of the posts I believe when Ted refers to "purchasing a position" he is not talking about anything over and above the basic team fee but rather just the fact that he feels he negotiated a position deal for his kid and it isn't working out that way.

So most of you have given responses that I agree with...that Ted is probably not doing Junior a ton of favors by trying to guarantee a playing position. We probably all agree that there are no guarantees in life and that lesson is better learned younger than later. Not sure Ted agrees with us, but that is the way of the world.

However...I have some other thoughts/angles that may be the basis of Ted's frustrations. Lets put it this way, I've seen some of these play out over two sons who have been through this meat grinder.

1. There is no doubt, whatsoever, that there are coaches and teams out there that 'recruit' and make promises to kids based on expectations of what will happen. That is, "this is a very talented middle infielder so yes Mr. Williams, we can promise you that Junior will be the starting SS for the summer."

When this doesn't pan out, there is trouble...often. And we see that here, I think. As was pointed out, bad/inexperienced assertion by the coach, but in reality Ted should be wise enough to understand that the coach screwed up.

2. We also know, without a doubt, that teams need a certain operating budget and will take $$ from parents who can pay to fill in the roster spots and fill the bank account to survive the summer. Some are foolish enough to make promises. Some are devious enough to make promises that they cannot keep. Some think nothing of taking $$ and making promises they know they cannot keep and parents just don't usually call 'em on it and life goes on. Is this Ted's situation? If so, we should lay this one on the coaches...but Ted should be wondering why this is the one team/coach that accepted his "deal" while the others would not. Shoulda been a warning signal Ted!

3. We also know that really good players have slumps. When our older son was in college, there was a player hitting about .160 and playing far more over another player hitting about .300. Parents of .300 player were very upset and he ended up transferring after that year. Funny thing was, anyone could see that the .160 player was the better player (he ended up being a 1st round draft pick a year later when he his over .300, smashed HRs and was the freakin' stud we all knew he should/could/would be). Is Ted's son that stud who is just in a slump and the reality is that the coach should stick with his initial instinct and keep playing him? In other words should the coach not give in to the stat-happy parents who only look at a spreadsheet and not what the real talent level is?

Ok, I know that last one will not be popular and no doubt in my mind that Ted's son would STILL be better off in the long run if the coach benches him (for a little while at least) and Junior gets the clear message that (lack of) performance has consequences. But I just wanted to throw it out there anyways.

BTW, good luck Ted! (And I mean that sincerely. )But overall, I think you're applying the principles of integrity in one direction only. I admire your steadfastness and candidness, but IMO you should also think about 'integrity' as it applies to 'accountability' and 'fairness to others.'

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Interesting thread. I, like CatcherzDad (previous page), kind of admire Ted's candidness and direct approach...particularly with this thread. He's taken some lumps but presents some though-provoking sentiments.

BTW, as I read all of the posts I believe when Ted refers to "purchasing a position" he is not talking about anything over and above the basic team fee but rather just the fact that he feels he negotiated a position deal for his kid and it isn't working out that way.

So most of you have given responses that I agree with...that Ted is probably not doing Junior a ton of favors by trying to guarantee a playing position. We probably all agree that there are no guarantees in life and that lesson is better learned younger than later. Not sure Ted agrees with us, but that is the way of the world.

However...I have some other thoughts/angles that may be the basis of Ted's frustrations. Lets put it this way, I've seen some of these play out over two sons who have been through this meat grinder.

1. There is no doubt, whatsoever, that there are coaches and teams out there that 'recruit' and make promises to kids based on expectations of what will happen. That is, "this is a very talented middle infielder so yes Mr. Williams, we can promise you that Junior will be the starting SS for the summer."

When this doesn't pan out, there is trouble...often. And we see that here, I think. As was pointed out, bad/inexperienced assertion by the coach, but in reality Ted should be wise enough to understand that the coach screwed up.

2. We also know, without at doubt, that teams need a certain operating budget and will take $$ from parents who can pay to fill in the roster spots and fill the bank account to survive the summer. Some are foolish enough to make promises. Some are devious enough to make promises that they cannot keep. Some think nothing of taking $$ and making promises they know they cannot keep and parents just don't usually call 'em on it and life goes on. Is this Ted's situation? If so, we should lay this one on the coaches...but Ted should be wondering why this is the one team/coach that accepted his "deal" while the others would not. Shoulda been a warning signal Ted!

3. We also know that really good players have slumps. When our older son was in college, there was a player hitting about .160 and playing far more over another player hitting about .300. Parents of .300 player were very upset and he ended up transferring after that year. Funny thing was, anyone could see that the .160 player was the better player (he ended up being a 1st round draft pick a year later when he his over .300, smashed HRs and was the freakin' stud we all knew he should/could/would be). Is Ted's son that stud who is just in a slump and the reality is that the coach should stick with his initial instinct and keep playing him? In other words should the coach not give in to the stat-happy parents who only look at a spreadsheet and not what the real talent level is?

Ok, I know that last one will not be popular and no doubt in my mind that Ted's son would STILL be better off in the long run if the coach benches him (for a little while at least) and Junior gets the clear message that (lack of) performance has consequences. But I just wanted to throw it out there anyways.

BTW, good luck Ted! (And I mean that sincerely. )But overall, I think you're applying the principles of integrity in one direction only. I admire your steadfastness and candidness, but you should think about 'integrity' as it applies to 'accountability' and 'fairness to others.'

Well said, JB. Hopefully Ted can wade through the majority of these posts and come out on the other side a better informed baseball parent. We all wish you the best, Ted and hope that Jr. has a productive summer.

I agree, very well said.

Ted, I'm with you buddy. Been there, done that!(no my son was an "All-American, D-1" recruit, but just a great kid with good baseball potential and as happens too often, promised alot by the recruiting Coach). BUT, I can add: Once that Coach gets you and your son onto his web...oops, I mean "team", he can and will do whatever he wants on play time, ABs, etc (I guess that concession is somewhere in that fancy-one sided "contract" we sign when we give them our check). AND...if that is not enough, just wait till the REALLY important games/tourneys begin when the Coach may likely bring in "RINGERS" from Odessa or El Paso and give them your sons' position, (doesn't matter that you paid the full amount and the ringer probably didn't pay a dime!) or ask you if you will put the RINGER up in your home for the summer "for free", while you and your son watch "RINGER" play your position and/or that of your teammates! I guess that is why it is called "Select" ball...the Coach MUST get the money, then "Select" who he wants to play. So it could be worse!

The good news is IMO it probably WAS NOT the intent, directive, or action reflective of the organization you and your signed up with. (In our case we stayed with the Organization, HUGE mistake with that Coach...this is where the "Buyer Beware" notice should be). Soo might do a little more background work on the COACH next time. I can not say enough good things about our new coaches AND the same about the organization. As for the money and the rough experience, consider both life lessons- for yourself and your son. GOOD LUCK

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Interesting thread. I, like CatcherzDad (previous page), kind of admire Ted's candidness and direct approach...particularly with this thread. He's taken some lumps but presents some though-provoking sentiments.

BTW, as I read all of the posts I believe when Ted refers to "purchasing a position" he is not talking about anything over and above the basic team fee but rather just the fact that he feels he negotiated a position deal for his kid and it isn't working out that way.

So most of you have given responses that I agree with...that Ted is probably not doing Junior a ton of favors by trying to guarantee a playing position. We probably all agree that there are no guarantees in life and that lesson is better learned younger than later. Not sure Ted agrees with us, but that is the way of the world.

However...I have some other thoughts/angles that may be the basis of Ted's frustrations. Lets put it this way, I've seen some of these play out over two sons who have been through this meat grinder.

1. There is no doubt, whatsoever, that there are coaches and teams out there that 'recruit' and make promises to kids based on expectations of what will happen. That is, "this is a very talented middle infielder so yes Mr. Williams, we can promise you that Junior will be the starting SS for the summer."

When this doesn't pan out, there is trouble...often. And we see that here, I think. As was pointed out, bad/inexperienced assertion by the coach, but in reality Ted should be wise enough to understand that the coach screwed up.

2. We also know, without a doubt, that teams need a certain operating budget and will take $$ from parents who can pay to fill in the roster spots and fill the bank account to survive the summer. Some are foolish enough to make promises. Some are devious enough to make promises that they cannot keep. Some think nothing of taking $$ and making promises they know they cannot keep and parents just don't usually call 'em on it and life goes on. Is this Ted's situation? If so, we should lay this one on the coaches...but Ted should be wondering why this is the one team/coach that accepted his "deal" while the others would not. Shoulda been a warning signal Ted!

3. We also know that really good players have slumps. When our older son was in college, there was a player hitting about .160 and playing far more over another player hitting about .300. Parents of .300 player were very upset and he ended up transferring after that year. Funny thing was, anyone could see that the .160 player was the better player (he ended up being a 1st round draft pick a year later when he his over .300, smashed HRs and was the freakin' stud we all knew he should/could/would be). Is Ted's son that stud who is just in a slump and the reality is that the coach should stick with his initial instinct and keep playing him? In other words should the coach not give in to the stat-happy parents who only look at a spreadsheet and not what the real talent level is?

Ok, I know that last one will not be popular and no doubt in my mind that Ted's son would STILL be better off in the long run if the coach benches him (for a little while at least) and Junior gets the clear message that (lack of) performance has consequences. But I just wanted to throw it out there anyways.

BTW, good luck Ted! (And I mean that sincerely. )But overall, I think you're applying the principles of integrity in one direction only. I admire your steadfastness and candidness, but IMO you should also think about 'integrity' as it applies to 'accountability' and 'fairness to others.'

/End thread. Well said.

This is another classic example of a coach having to look out for the interests of each player on the team and the team as a whole while the parent is only concerned with one member of the team.

This is the reason not everyone coaches because they only see things from their own selfish point of view.

Ted, when you are (or your son is) a pro then the contract plays a big part in determining your playing time. Don't think either of you are there yet. How do you know another player wasn't also promised a shot at position X as well? If you didn't pay anymore than another parent what makes you entitled to anything extra?

And if you help raise more money for your sons school team next spring should he play more?

quote:

Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
/End thread. Well said.

Amen. I would like to share some of the things the hsbaseballweb congregation has taught me over the last day or so.

• “You shall not steal” and “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” do not apply to summer league coaches or the organizations they represent.
  
• A man’s word is less important than the “417th 3rd Weekend in June Elks Lodge 15U 5-Team Consolation Championship”.
  
• Do not struggle during summer league; you will be banished to the bench.
  
• Your summer league fee guarantees you a very expensive t-shirt, nothing more, nothing less. Oh, and a hat!
  
• And my favorite, courtesy of RLB (who doesn’t have kids yet), the baseball gods are less forgiving than the God who made the heavens and earth and sent His Son to die for our sins.
  

I may print these on a t-shirt. PM me your size if you're interested.

They are taking me back to the cryogenic chamber. Best of luck to everyone.

quote:

Your summer league fee guarantees you a very expensive t-shirt, nothing more, nothing less. Oh, and a hat!

And, an opportunity...........

That you, nor your son, have done anything with.

When I saw FO had posted here, I opened up the thread and see lively debate from all over.

I skimmed over some of the posts so forgive in advance if my take is redundent.

Having been through the college experience, and now professional, my take is that versatility is one of the greatest virtues a ballplayer can have. It doubles, triples, and sometimes quadruples their chances to get on the playing field at the uber-competitive levels beyond high school.

Unless I have misread something here, this coach is being highly reasonable. Rather than bench your son for the low batting average, he is offering playing time at other positions. This sounds like a gift to me and you should thank the coach for the opportunity. Moreover, this will be great training for that all-important versatility component in college. Don't focus on the negatives here. Convince your son of the blessings in this situation and smile

Again, I apologize in advance if someone else has already offered this perspective.

Highschool freshman parent, CD.......

And, another great Texas Master Debate.

Sounds like he paid too little............

And, hasn't learned that you don't have to pay if your son is good.

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:

Do not struggle during summer league; you will be banished to the bench.
.

See this is the one where I and most people get lost. After little league, rec league, whatever you want to call it don't you feel any accountability to "produce to play"?

I get other parts but I don't get this part of your position at all. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:
Highschool freshman parent, CD.......

And, another great Texas Master Debate.

Sounds like he paid too little............

And, hasn't learned that you don't have to pay if your son is good.

Thanks FO!

In my mind, my son should have always been the shortstop but it wasn't always the case because what the coach decides to do is out of your control.

When he tried out for the freshman team with over 100 kids trying out, he made the team as the starting center fielder which was mildly shocking. People that knew me tried to goad me by saying "Aren't you upset your son is not playing shortstop?" I said (as I looked at the 25 players or so sitting on the bench), "Hell no, I am just thankful he is in the lineup!" The next year he was the starting 3rd baseman on JV's and that did not bother me either. He became the varsity starting shortstop as a junior. All through his pre-high school career, he pitched, played second, third, and shortstop. Looking back, I am positive this was a key component to his development and future success beyond high school. I said it above but versatility is a gift. Embrace it.

And, is very likely a troll.........

Or, is MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder)

Dissociative identity disorder is characterized by the presence of two or more distinct or split identities or personality states that continually have power over the person's behavior. With dissociative identity disorder, there's also an inability to recall key personal information that is too far-reaching to be explained as mere forgetfulness. With dissociative identity disorder, there are also highly distinct memory variations, which fluctuate with the person's split personality.

The "alters" or different identities have their own age, ***, or race. Each has his or her own postures, gestures, and distinct way of talking. Sometimes the alters are imaginary people ; sometimes they are animals. As each personality reveals itself and controls the individuals' behavior and thoughts, it's called "switching." Switching can take seconds to minutes to days. When under hypnosis, the person's different "alters" or identities may be very responsive to the therapist's requests.

So, Ted, did you really want a response on the 3 questions in your OP? If so, I think you have enough feedback from which to frame a plan to address the situation.

The impression I get from your posts, however, is that you wanted validation for how you believe you've been wronged and support to confront the summer program/coach that misled you. I'd suggest that you can stomp away and sarcastically malign posters that have provided contrarian views, or you might realize that you asked for input and there are a number of posters on this board that have years and years of experience and wisdom with respect to baseball matters such as this and there may be an opportunity to learn from the question which should help you in future discussions with coaches of summer teams.

Only other thing I would add is that IMO, at this point in junior's career (summer after Fr year), his future in baseball will be much more impacted by things like character, attitude, enthusiasm, work ethic, and approach to the game than it ever would be by what marginal improvements he can make in his physical skills during that time period.

Let me help you all out with a few words that I've said so many times here...

Money changes everything!

I long for the days when kids get a number pinned to their back, have a try out day, and get called by a coach to play on a team of no choice to them.

Then parents and players would have to learn to deal with the hard knocks of life regardless of how they choose to spend their paycheck.

Well Said!!!

quote:

Originally posted by BackstopDad32:

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:

Do not struggle during summer league; you will be banished to the bench.
.

See this is the one where I and most people get lost. After little league, rec league, whatever you want to call it don't you feel any accountability to "produce to play"?

I get other parts but I don't get this part of your position at all. Sorry.

I agree with the issue of holding young men (that's how they want to be viewed at this age... not as "kids") accountable, and using internal competition to push them. It makes them better adults in the long run, better athletes, better students, better...better...better at everything.

But, I also have never recruited a player to be on my team that I didn't think would play, and play a lot. Unlike most HS ball situations, the player gets to choose his summer team (to a degree...obviously there are some teams these guys may try out for and not make, but in the end, if offered a spot, you choose to take the opportunity).

Granted, with 13 position players this year and 2 PO's, not all of my players are at the same level from a talent perspective. Some bat lead-off, some bat 4th, some bat at the bottom of the lineup. I have one of my 5-6 OFs who is my primary CF... in my view, he's more suited there than the other ones, when he's in the game. Some guys go through a slump, and sit a few games (we play 7-8 a week sometimes...so even if they play 4-5 games in that timeframe, its still a lot of baseball, right?).

I'm doubting that most select, summer coaches "banish" one of their players to the end of the bench, unless there is a disciplinary issue. It has nothing to do with who paid what, but more to do with the fact we don't have 25 kids on the roster like some HS teams do, or the fact we committed to the young man that he has a spot on the team, and is a valuable asset to it (whether he plays 75% of the games or 90% of the games...I don't think I've ever had a healthy position player who played less than 7 out of 10 games when everything is said and done).

One year I did have a parent tell me they didn't pay to have their son laying down a sac bunt. He was typically a middle of the order hitter, and they wanted him to drive in runs. Really? So now we are dictating game strategy? C'mon. From a completely selfish side of things, I understood the thinking, but this is a team game, and on a competitive team there are other hitters who can perform.

I don't know TW or who his son plays for, but for most coaches (school, select, college), the roster can often be in a very fluid state. It's almost always in a state of flux due to injuries/nagging aches/fatigue (60+ games in 10 weeks can do that), if nothing else. Throw in a trip out of town (which is one variable here, although I understand this was communicated before taking the spot), and it can create more instability.

With all the moving parts, it very often (and I believe should) comes down to what is best for the _team_, even if that means players are moving around on the field, in the batting order, or resting a game or two.

I agree with CD's post 100%, and I was never good enough to play D1 ball, much less pro ball. But as a competitive NAIA athlete, who chose that route over sitting for a year or two hoping I'd have a shot to see the field at a better "baseball" program, I was thankful I could play numerous positions when I went off to college. Started 4 years and wouldn't trade that for anything. Only the last 2 years did I play what I considered to be my best/primary position (SS).

All this being said, I'm disappointed _if_ TW was "promised" something that is now being pulled off the table. But again, I'd never recruit kids who can't play for me. I've had some parents (and kids) mad at me, and think I am stupid, for not giving their son a spot...and some of those guys have grown up and have developed into outstanding ballplayers who compete very well against my team now. I think I did them a favor by having them find a team where they played a lot and developed when they were younger.

But without hearing the coach's side of the story, I'm not going to throw him under the bus. He may have some reasons for the change in direction (regardless of the player's .100 batting average) that not even TW knows yet. Maybe TWjr knows because the coach has communicated it to him?

Stay cool and stay hydrated... lots of ball left to be played this summer.

One year I did have a parent tell me they didn't pay to have their son laying down a sac bunt. He was typically a middle of the order hitter, and they wanted him to drive in runs. Really? So now we are dictating game strategy? C'mon. From a completely selfish side of things, I understood the thinking, but this is a team game, and on a competitive team there are other hitters who can perform.

[/QUOTE]

I have news for alot of parents out there, you will see more bunting next year in HS baseball than you ever have. The 14U team I'm helping, we bunt a lot, we hit and run a ton, we've squeezed home a bunch of runs. The kids love it because we have won way more than we've lost.

TW, best of luck to you and yours.

quote:

I have news for alot of parents out there, you will see more bunting next year in HS baseball than you ever have.

Nah, it will just seem that way with the new BBCOR's

quote:

Originally posted by TedWilliams:


Amen. I would like to share some of the things the hsbaseballweb congregation has taught me over the last day or so.

• “You shall not steal” and “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” do not apply to summer league coaches or the organizations they represent.
  
• A man’s word is less important than the “417th 3rd Weekend in June Elks Lodge 15U 5-Team Consolation Championship”.
  
• Do not struggle during summer league; you will be banished to the bench.
  
• Your summer league fee guarantees you a very expensive t-shirt, nothing more, nothing less. Oh, and a hat!
  
• And my favorite, courtesy of RLB (who doesn’t have kids yet), the baseball gods are less forgiving than the God who made the heavens and earth and sent His Son to die for our sins.
  

I may print these on a t-shirt. PM me your size if you're interested.

They are taking me back to the cryogenic chamber. Best of luck to everyone.

Stop using religion as a shield, it has nothing to do with what was said. It is dirty and cheapens everything you say.

Also, not having kids doesn't make what I say any less valid. You seem somewhat close minded and I don't expect you to understand and I am not invested enough to explain.

I hope Jr. gets earns his spot, has a great Summer and continues to have a great HS career as well.

TW,
You ought to look at this as a bit blessing. If your son can excel at another position, that is one more option for him to move on to the next level. When your son only plays one position, he's gotta one of the best at that positon.(not just 5A-starter good!), but when he could pan out at a couple of other spots, there's more of a chance he could have a niche in a college program (and that's what I assume you're working toward).
Your coach did some shady stuff, but treat this as a learning experience, and get your ABs this year. Good luck and hang in there!

TW,

You're the one that posted the original "dilemma". All the congregation must be wrong and I guess that makes you God.

Seriously, take the log out of your own eye. (Matthew 7:5)

Apologies to anyone who I have offended. My attempt at humor during the last few posts may not have been received as intended. The bottom line for me is this:

When someone lies to me about how they are going to treat my kid I get upset. This kid is 14, I imagine I'll have the same reaction when he's 24, 34, 44 or 54.

Please no more about this being 'Select Baseball', batting averages or the benefit of playing multiple positions, those points have been made. Look at your kid and ask yourself if someone told you they were going to treat him one way and did the opposite, how would you feel?

Hey TW...I am picking up what you are putting down...BUT...it's called...that's how it is.

As a current player in select ball i can say no spot is ever guaranteed. If your son has to have his dad pay for a spot on the field, what is that teaching him? you earn what you work for and going 3/30 then having a week of church camp doesnt help. maybe the team played better with someone else at his position. surely you didnt think theyd play with 8 till he got back?

My point is no matter what the coach told you, he gave him a try at the position desired and then found a better fit as of right now when he went to camp. Personally if i was hitting 100 id be scared everyday to check the lineup.

monkeyboy,

I'm so tired, my head is cold and I have no body. Would you please explain to our young friend Sibley03 the meaning of your cartoon and how once someone posts said cartoon, globally accepted internet forum rules prohibit any mention of anything that has already been mentioned ad-nauesum.

Thank you.
TW