Getting good GPA bull at DIV I

Niner, That's a very unusual scenario. If the info is correct, the school must desperately want the kid PLUS they must feel he's going to be able to bring scores and GPA up. With that info, he wouldn't be clearinghouse eligible.

I can guarantee that a kid with a 1.7 and poor ACT scores has alot less options than a kid with a 3.0 and good scores.

Yes, a kid with lousy grades will still get offers, but he won't have nearly as many open doors as a kid with good grades. I think yuo need to reevaluate your opinion here. Some colleges are much tougher to get into than others. It's not like the kid is going to a top tier school, right?

Only thing I can figure is his ACT is good at the second try around, and they are going to get him some help as far as his studies go. Granted I do believe this kid can play DI I have not doubt he can. He has worked hard for it on the field. But to know the grade situation makes it difficult to accept.

I find it hard to see a kid with a 1.7 GPA get into a Division I school much less any other school of good repute

How long do you think a kid like this remains eligible????

And how does he get approved by the Clearinghouse--their GPA scale stops at 2.0 as the lowest

Niner, think what the other posters are saying is very valid, based on our experiences. Many more options with a good GPA and SAT....

It is not unheard of for a 'student' like this to be recruited and signed in the early period. It is also pretty common to learn in the spring that the student has either been denied admission to school, or has been declared ineligible by NCAA Clearinghouse.

As a coach, taking a flier on a 'student' like this might be a low risk venture. If he makes it, good for the kid & good for the coach. If he doesn't, a well prepared coach has already prepared an alternate plan.

I was under the impression from some coaches that they could not bring a kid on an official visit or make an offer if he had a core GPA below a 2.0 . I may be wrong but his SAT or ACT nust be decent to carry that kind of GPA.

dbg_fan got it right I think. The coach is taking a shot in the dark. This kid sounds like a JUCO candidate. Even if he brought his GPA up to 2.0, wouldn't his ACT or SAT's have to be off the charts to be cleared by the NCAA?

my hearty congrats to the player on his signing -

he must have done something right to attract a coach's attention as an early signee and deserves some respect & a pat on the back -

I figure a coach who's been recruiting him has a pretty good read on the situation

heck, look how the kid's ACT has improved in just 4 posts - no reason to think the GPA won't follow






.

I'm with BEE....give him an atta boy! I think we are all limited as to where we can go. At least I know I am. Think about it: If we all had high GPAs and ACTs, who would moderate the HSBBW?
Fungo

Fungo -

I don't know about official visits, but I do know that schools can extend NLI's to players who don't yet meet Clearinghouse standards. There was a player at my son's JUCO a couple of years ago who signed with a MAJOR MAJOR Div. 1 school, but ended up not being able to enroll because they found out he had only 12 college credits. he jumped to a NAIA school instead.

lhpx2,
I'm sure someone knows better than me but during my son's recruitment the school HAD to have a transcript of his grades and his clearinghouse information before they would do something???? and I can't remember what that something was. (offer? NLI?) Help out folks.
Fungo

NCAA schools will ask for this information before official visits. Not sure if they have to have it per NCAA or this is a school's choice.

The Standard language of the NLI includes the following paragraph:

quote:

Section 7: Letter Becomes Null and Void.
This NLI shall be declared null and void if any of the following occur:

A: Admissions Requirement.
This NLI shall be declared null and void if the institution named in this document notifies me in writing that I have been denied admission or, by the opening day of classes in the fall 2006 has failed to provide me with written notice of admission, provided I have submitted a complete admission application.

1. It is presumed that I am eligible for admission and financial aid until information is submitted to the contrary. Thus, it is mandatory for me, upon request, to provide a transcript of my previous academic record and an application for admission to the institution named in this document.

2. If I am eligible for admission, but the institution named in this document defers admission to a subsequent term, the NLI shall be rendered null and void. However, if I defer my admission, this NLI remains binding.

B. Eligibility Requirements.
This NLI shall be declared null and void if, by the opening day of classes in the fall of 2006, I have not met (a) the institution’s requirements for admissions, (b) its academic requirements for financial aid to athletes, or (c) the NCAA requirements for freshman financial aid (NCAA Bylaw 14.3) or the junior college transfer requirements.

1. If I become a nonqualifier (per NCAA Bylaw 14.3), this NLI shall be rendered null and void.

The University isn't taking much of a chance. If a player still doesn't meet the Universities Admission requirements after graduation, he may meet them by attending summer classes after graduation. It the admissions requirement still isn't met, then the University/College has no commitment at all.

Meanwhile, a player MAY become eligible down the road and you've scarfed up some talent. I'd advise the player in question to research alternatives. In a case like this it may be advisable to sign an NLI with a Juco with the understanding that persuing the 4 year college career is the players main intent.

Some colleges process the NLI and send the information on to the Admission Department. Depending on the institution, they may or may NOT be able to get the player into that school.

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom:
NCAA schools will ask for this information before official visits. Not sure if they have to have it per NCAA or this is a school's choice.

Before you can go on an official visit, the college must have received a copy of your transcript. This is an NCAA requirement.

Are scholarships not being tied to graduation rates? The way that I understand the situation is if a coach signs a student/athlete and that student/athlete flunks out or transfers the program will loose some portion of a baseball scholarship. Is this true? How could a coach take that type of risk?

HHH,
Is this a preliminary to "greyshirting"?

Hey what the heck, kudos to the kid, it's done in football all of the time. And, he might get drafted, so ther is no question about eligibility.

The parent going around town telling other parents makes no sense to me. Other than to show how much more important baseball is over one's education.

Bee,

Not doubting Niners' quote of 1.7 GPA - maybe that's his overall GPA, not the GPA for the core class requirements?? However, it's hard to believe his core GPA is higher than his overall, when you factor in gym class, etc into overall. If he is a senior, it's awfully late to pull that GPA up - if he does pull it up, it means he probably had the capability all along, and was slacking,

My question is this: HOW THE HECK IS HE GRADUATING FROM HS WITH A 1.7??!! Sounds like Jethro Bodine could have gotten past his 6th grade edgamacation and gone on to better things than being a double naught spy, if he went to that school.

Sounds like he can handle the level of baseball at the school, but what about the academics?? He still has to be able to pass his course work at the U. Might be getting in over his head, academics-wise; if so where does that leave him??

Yes, it is possible to graduate with that low a GPA, provided his is a state where state tests determine passage of a course. My kid actually got a D in a course (American history) where he passed the state exam with honors. I'll not bore you with the story, but it can happen.

My son's Clearinghouse GPA was actually almost four-tenths higher than his "official" GPA, and neither was very good. A 2.0 Clearinghouse GPA means you have to have a 1010 on the SAT. Does it happen often that a low GPA can still make that score? No, but it does happen.

That son right now is a junior in college. His overall GPA for four semesters is like 2.8, and his semester will be about that.

So yes, push your kids to get the best grades they can. But know that a 90-plus fastball and a 6-5, 250 player that can run 4.5 has options others don't have, sometimes the same options as has the high honor student.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

oldVaman....except....what is more attainable by the average youth baseball player......good grades or a 90+ fastball?

I'd rather bet on a sure thing and/or promote the good grades........

I repeat--what Division I college accepts a student, forget if he is an athlete or not, with a 1.7 GPA

If they exist it has to be a very short list and once I see that short list thye go on my no no list-- what are they telling kids?

TR, I can see some colleges admitting 1.7 GPA kids, but what I can't imagine is them offering a scholarship to one. They may be scrutinized prior to admission, but I can see the need to get/keep enrollment up at some places being a deciding foce in admissions. That of course would be the exception, not the rule. Again, I can't imagine them passing the smell test in awarding scholarships.

As for TPM, who said that she couldn't see parents running around town saying their kid couldn't get into college because of grades, and somehow translating that to baseball being more important that education to those parents, you can't seriously think of that as a blanket statement. My son has poor grades and wants to play at his favorite D1 school, but I happen to know that it isn't going to be possible with those grades. When others ask about his future, I tell them that grades will be his Waterloo if he doesn't get off his ash. He's currently a Junior, so there is hope, but... I expect JUCO will be his only option...heck, they'll take just about anybody.

Re-reading the original thread starter to make sure of the point, but we are talking about a very infrequent event. There have to be some unique circumstances. But they do happen.

quote:

Originally posted by jaxnbulldog:
TR, I can see some colleges admitting 1.7 GPA kids, but what I can't imagine is them offering a scholarship to one. They may be scrutinized prior to admission, but I can see the need to get/keep enrollment up at some places being a deciding foce in admissions. That of course would be the exception, not the rule. Again, I can't imagine them passing the smell test in awarding scholarships.

As for TPM, who said that she couldn't see parents running around town saying their kid couldn't get into college because of grades, and somehow translating that to baseball being more important that education to those parents, you can't seriously think of that as a blanket statement. My son has poor grades and wants to play at his favorite D1 school, but I happen to know that it isn't going to be possible with those grades. When others ask about his future, I tell them that grades will be his Waterloo if he doesn't get off his ash. He's currently a Junior, so there is hope, but... I expect JUCO will be his only option...heck, they'll take just about anybody.

Question, would you go around telling people your son did very poorly in school but managed to get signed at a D1? Most probably not. If it was me, I would be vey happy and keep my mouth shut.

Folks this is not the norm and we don't know the whole story, you don't know his situation.
Besides, he only signed he has not been accepted. Maybe he has a disability, as I stated we all don't know but quick to pass judgement, myself included.

Here in Florida our JUCO's don't take just about everybody.

quote:

Originally posted by OldVaman:

My son's Clearinghouse GPA was actually almost four-tenths higher than his "official" GPA, and neither was very good.

OldVaman - I wondered how often this happens. My son's clearinghouse GPA was also higher than his overall GPA. C's in guitar, pottery, art - sheesh, how hard can those classes be?

I don't understand why a student that struggles like that would want to attempt it. Even though my son is a D1 qualifier, he (and we) was smart enough to realize how hard he would have to work right out of HS so chose the JUCO route. A much easier adjustment for a poor student.

As TPM and some others have stated, sometimes we are too quick to pass judgement on the issue of grades and academic effort.

It would be politically incorrect to say, "Why does that kid even attempt to go to a prestigious college if he has a hearing impairment?", or "Geez, the lazy kid, he could hear as well as my kid if he would just try harder." or "I can't see any disability, I think it's just an excuse."

Approximately 1 in 20 students in our high schools have a learning impairment in the form of ADD. Medically, it's a problem with the coating around some of the nerve fibers in the brain, and it causes "traffic jams" of information being sent through the nerves, and problems filtering out extraneous messages and focusing on the primary one. It can be detected on a specific type of brain scan that is rarely done because it's very expensive. Yet there are teachers and parents who think that it's not a medical condition, but evidence of laziness. Some others would call it a disability; I would call it a different-ability, or a need to sometimes learn in a different way.

I admire a young man I know who chose to work hard without any special accomodations or medication in HS to compensate for ADD and graduate from an academically demanding private high school with a B-/C+ GPA. He scored higher on standardized tests (ACT) than his GPA would predict, which helped him gain admittance to an academically respected D3 college (the ACT vs. GPA imbalance is fairly common in boys with ADD). Now he is playing baseball and maintaining a C+ average in his sophomore year of college. Would he prefer to earn an A average? Sure! But if he has to work as hard for his C+ as some others work for As, but he gets to play college baseball and graduate with a degree from a respected college - that is a very worthwhile accomplishment. I'm glad he didn't listen to some who wondered if he could succeed in college at all.

Just to clarify things. The dad didn't blab it all over town. Just to people in general, other parents whos kids play on the team. The kid even posted his GPA on the Pefect Game Website last year. I have seen this young man at JUCCO visits when my son has been there. We figured hey he is going JUCCO due to his grades. The next thing we see on the news he signed with an D1 school. The principal at the high school told me personallythis past summer, the kid would never get into a D1 school with the grades he was making. We were saying the kid was an awesome player and his grades came up.

My kid who is top half of his class 24 ACT and busted his can this last semester to get a 3.5 is saying what the heck!?

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
As TPM and some others have stated, sometimes we are too quick to pass judgement on the issue of grades and academic effort.
.
.
I admire a young man I know who chose to work hard without any special accomodations or medication in HS to compensate for ADD and graduate from an academically demanding private high school with a B-/C+ GPA. He scored higher on standardized tests (ACT) than his GPA would predict, which helped him gain admittance to an academically respected D3 college (the ACT vs. GPA imbalance is fairly common in boys with ADD). Now he is playing baseball and maintaining a C+ average in his sophomore year of college. Would he prefer to earn an A average? Sure! But if he has to work as hard for his C+ as some others work for As, but he gets to play college baseball and graduate with a degree from a respected college - that is a very worthwhile accomplishment. I'm glad he didn't listen to some who wondered if he could succeed in college at all.

MN-Mom - I wasn't meaning to pass judgement. I understand what you are saying. My son has ADHD and Tourette as I have discussed on other threads.

What I probably should have said was that there are easier routes to get where he wants to end up than to put what might be extreme pressure on himself to succeed where it might be more difficult for him. I have just seen my son struggle too much with his academics (through no fault of his own) to let him put himself in that position.

I've worked in 2 high schools in the past 10 years, and a son attended another where I frequently volunteered. In my experience the majority of students with learning disabilities are identified, and accomodated.....further they are in the minority. Also in my experience......a lot more students don't do the work for reasons other than a disability......1 in 20 with ADD.....well I'm estimating 5 in 20 with IDLW (I don't like work).

Think whenever possible cop outs should be avoided.....and Niner's Parent....you have to know that your son will be better off with the better grades.....don't you? The kid with the 1.7 lucked out, but probably not in the long run....if he doesn't improve academically.

Everything is situational, but when possible (medically, etc.), kids need to concentrate on school work more than the baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by Niner's Parent:
Just to clarify things. The dad didn't blab it all over town. Just to people in general, other parents whos kids play on the team. The kid even posted his GPA on the Pefect Game Website last year. I have seen this young man at JUCCO visits when my son has been there. We figured hey he is going JUCCO due to his grades. The next thing we see on the news he signed with an D1 school. The principal at the high school told me personallythis past summer, the kid would never get into a D1 school with the grades he was making. We were saying the kid was an awesome player and his grades came up.

My kid who is top half of his class 24 ACT and busted his can this last semester to get a 3.5 is saying what the heck!?

I know a story like this just shocks us all, because we (I do often) also preach how important it is to get good grades.
But we just don't know the whole situation and should not be quick to jump to conclusions.
I personally don't know why a principal is discussing another students grades with another parent.
Maybe that coach saw something in that player that we can't understand. Maybe he offered him a chance that to some would seem ridiulous. It would be interesting to find out if the player gets accepted. Either way, it should not discourage anyone from not doing their best in school.
I know of a player who had terrific grades, great SAT. No one came knocking on his door, until spring, with inside help. He just wasn't that good on the field as he was when he was younger. Sounds crazy, but it happens.

I say the principal should be fired for running off at the mouth like that. If you don't, can't ot won't help the kid, at least shut up and don't hurt him.

Just because you have good grades doesn't mean you deserve a scholarship, especially an athletic scholarship. Athletic scholarships go to the players that will help you win, period.

I know of plenty of good high school students who failed in college because they couldn't handle the first academic adversity they'd ever faced. Frankly, give me a kid who fought for a 2.75 in high school and will fight for a 2.2 in college anytime. Especially if he can hit with two strikes.

Do good grades help? Of course. I don't want to waste my scholarship money on a kid whose chances of graduating aren't terribly good. But it doesn't do me any good to give the money to a kid who isn't going to help my club that much, either. Let the financial aid office take care of those kids.

I want the kids who will help me win ... and kids who will graduate. And, in most cases, in that order.

OldVaman.....I thought it was a given in this discussion that the kids could play ball?

Grades have NOTHING to do with baseball talent.

Most coaches would be thrilled to get a talented ball player with really good grades. Icing on the cake.

But coaches need to win. And first and foremost they are looking for talent to help them win.

It sounds like this kid is 1)talented and 2)either very lucky, or did some serious research if he found a place to play despite such poor grades.

In no way does that take away from what you have been teaching your children about the importance of hard work in the classroom.

There will always be exceptions to any rule. I for one wouldn't want my future to depend on my being one of those exceptions. Much better to be in a position to choose.

topdogfan,

I did not mean my post as a criticism of anyone's posts in this thread, but just to show another side of the story based on what I've seen through the years. Too many times I've seen adults (and I'm referring to local teachers and parents, not internet forum members) jump to negative conclusions, usually assuming laziness, because the young man I was talking about chose NOT to make his condition public knowledge, NOT to inform teachers at his school, and NOT to ask for any special accommodations. As arizonared mentioned, "Think whenever possible cop outs should be avoided.....". This young man chose not to ask for special rules about test taking or other measurements because he felt that real life wouldn't offer any special rules for him later in life.

I guess my purpose in posting above was to suggest that we try not to pass judgment about any of these kids. I think it's great that we send the message to players and parents on this forum about how many college opportunities can be opened up by maintaining good grades in high school. In my own family, my 04 had narrower choices than does my 06, who has a good chance of being accepted at any college he desires, and is likely to receive some academic money. It sure makes it easier on his parents this time around!

But at the same time I can put myself in the shoes of the parent of that senior who was mentioned at the start of this thread. Maybe that boy and his parents have struggled through his entire school career, trying to find ways to help him succeed, but always on that borderline of failing, whether through some disability or a simple lack of mental ability. Yes, I realize it could be through a lack of effort, but I personally do not believe that that is most often the primary reason for low grades. There are kids who will never become starters on the varsity baseball team no matter how hard they try, and kids who will not earn an A average no matter how hard they work. The boy may have had many frustrations and disappointments in his school years, but finally someone gives him the opportunity to sign a DI NLI. Maybe he and his parents realize that his chances of attending that school are slim and realize he may end up at another school, but are just thankful for this moment of feeling good about something connected with school, and something he has accomplished.

I do not mean AT ALL by this explanation to criticize the opinions and anecdotes offered above, but just to add another view to this discussion. I wanted to share my thoughts in case it would help anyone to see the other side of the story in similar situations among their own acquaintances.

arizonared

I think that's fair. But what I was reacting to was what I detected as frustration that someone with lesser academic credentials got an athletic offer over someone with higher academic credentials.

Grades are great. Period. I wish some of my kids had them, and I'm happy that some of my kids do.

But talent decides who gets athletic scholarships.

Grades can help you get an athletic scholarship, especially if you're talking about a would-be tie-breaker.

But this is one time where the better talent wins, almost always.

OldVaman....agree....better talent wins the athletic contest....

If you look around every year, there are some guys that sign D1 and then SWEAT making it into the college of their choice that made the offer. I know several who had to attend summer school between HS and College in order to be academically eligible the first year.

I hear of 1-2 each year that get signed by big "State U" and can't cut it academically and end up attending "Not the State College" ... It generally acts as a wake-up call and they have fine college athletic careers.

You don't BLAME "State U" for chasing the best talent available. You don't BLAME the kid if he has to take summer classes to be academically eligible and you don't BLAME "State U" if he can't get accepted. It happens and with the new Academic Guidelines, the admission restrictions are going to get tougher.

I expect the HC of the college program to inform the student before he receives his NLI in the mail of this simple fact. "You've made it onto our campus athletically, but NOT academically yet and you have some hard work ahead of you." It puts the ball back in the students court. He has all fall and spring to bring up grades, bring up his SAT/ACT and demonstrate that he can be a successful student.

If he's not willing to work hard enough to do that, then the NLI ended up being worth EXACTLY the paper it was written on, but nothing more.

Let's be honest. These days, one can "achieve" a D-average in HS just by consistently showing up. Grades may have "nothing to do with baseball talent", but the question here seems to be the reverse - how much should baseball talent weigh in the (D1)college admission/scholarship process. I, for one, believe in the concept of student-athlete. Isn't that at least the spirit of the NCAA regs? If you're not serious about the student part, go JUCO or some other route. I get the part about possible extenuating circumstances, but does anyone really believe a HS 1.7 is going to succeed at the college level with the added responsibility of producing on the field? More likely, they'll take up space and money for a year or two (straining the bounds of eligibility) before signing a deal and moving on. There are plenty of superior athletes amongst the good students who are more deserving of a D1 spot. I share Niner's frustration.

All things aside I still ask the question--what D-1 school accepts baseball player with a 1.7 GPA regardless of his SAT/ACT scores ?