Getting good GPA bull at DIV I

quote:

Originally posted by PopTime:
I think maybe coaches will be less willing to take flyers on kids with questionable grades in the future. What I understand is that the NCAA will be "punishing" schools which don't graduate a certain percentage of players by lowering the amount of scholarships that they can give, as if it's not already ridiculously low. This is something I seem to remember hearing at a recruiting seminar a while back. There was a big stink being raised by schools who typically have a lot of kids drafted after their junior years, so I really don't know where it stands at this point.

There will be exceptions for baseball, because of the draft.

I understand Grateful's post now. As I said before, we don't know the circumstances, we don't know what teh coach was thinking. We only assume, because we tell our kids it's important to do well in school. Well, regardless, baseball or not, that is something your kids should know and do automatically, it does give more opportunities.

Wanting to know which school and coach so you can steer clear is really silly to me, considering we are just going on a parents post.
I'd be more interested in who the principlal is (which school), discussing other students academic abilities with parents. Now that's WRONG.
JMO

****lehead doll

Wow, you're tough

I have a problem with a student who does poorly at school up to his serior year in HS if it is not due to a dissability. He did not find out yesterday that he needed good grades. Why should he be allowed to get into a school if he made no effort during HS. Where were his parents? This student has other avenues that may be a better fit and allow him to show he can do better. He created the situation and has to fix it.

Parents divorced, on drugs, gamblers, the kid amtures late, to poor and kid has to work, Parents sick...could be a million reasons a kid does poorly and then picks it up.

I could go on and on...my apologies but I just have a real problem with people that will generalize about other peoples circumstances.
Is there anyone else that thinks it's a done deal for every 14 or 15 year old kid in America???

I'm glad to hear a success story even if it's one in a million. You know why! Because if a kid doesn't belong in school it'll tell itself. But if a kid never gets a chance (as you would have it) then we'll never know.

I have been told I am tough.
I believe that I fall into one of those catagories of reasons for my son not to do well.
Almost totally blind in 1999. Have regained a portion through laser surgery and was unable to help my son much but supported him in everything he did the best I could. Had many a chat about why he couldn't do this or that.
I know people worse off and their kids do well and were never turned away from a team. I always helped kids who s parents wouldn't support their kids. There is always help.
I asked where his parents were assuming there might be an issue and atleast a lck of direction.
There are other options as others have mentioned. JUCO and taking the year over. I believe thyat in the US there are so many opportunities for this young man to get his grades up. He dosen't even need to be a genious.
If you want something bad enough you have to work to get there.

quote:

by mrmom: if a kid doesn't belong in school it'll tell itself

alot of wisdom in that



.

quote:

Originally posted by Niner's Parent:
We press our kids to get good grades and this happens. Would make me a doubter if a were a young one again.

Seems like a lot of dust up over 1 kid. How many examples are out there of kids that got good grades and did get the opportunity...possibly over a poor student, THERE ARE MANY. How many schools walked away from this young man....plenty.

What does it matter if this kid gets a chance, good for him.

It's none of our business how the school makes the decision on how they selected their players. Baseball and life are never fair, some people get chances that others don't, some work harder others don't.

If the school wants to take a chance on him (if he actually gets in, and shows up on campus next year), it is their prerogative...after all it is a business.

This is getting TWISTED.

Maybe he shouldn't have to meet the minimum standards set by the NCAA and the schools. Why not stack him up in the corner no tests, assignments and give him a degree because he showed up to basket weaving 101.
Hi s dad by the way was well/sober enough to tell everyone how lousy he did. Must have been with his dying breaths.
I got no problem giving a guy a break as long as he works to get it. The guy who wrote the original thread was obviously surprised at the possibility of this guy getting an offer with horrific marks. I am making the assumption that he knows more than we do about the kids circomstances.
I am shocked at how many posters are willing to bend the standards which are already minimal.
The concept in life is "you work hard for what you want and you should succede.
Can't agree more "Life is unfair"

BobbleheadDoll

You make the assumption that someone is bending rules for this kid due to his grades. Well guess what, if he doesn't meet NCAA guidelines he won't be eligible. Period.

Someone is giving him a chance, based on the possibility that by the end of the year he will meet those guidelines.

His LOI (if he has signed one - for all we know it's nothing more than a verbal at this time) will be null and void if he does not meet the minimum requirements.

Kids do get rewards for good grades, high ACT or SAT scores etc. - it's called ACADEMIC scholarship money.

Baseball scholarship money is for athletic excellence. The two are distinct and seperate, and rightly so.

quote:

by bbblhddoll: This is getting TWISTED . . . . I am shocked at how many posters are willing to bend the standards

??? maybe you'd be kind enough to point ONE out






.

AParent you are absolutly correct. That is the assumption I make and I also made the other assumption that he offer was contingent. As I don't know anything about the guy Ihad to make those assumptions.
I guess I am shocked more by the responses that seem to accept poor academics. In our efforts to get an offer the schools were asking for strong academics as a precurser to the likelyhood of my son surviving the rigorous routine of practice,travel and study.
Some of the guys who had good GPA and SAT did not do well at mid term.
The coaches told me they did not want to take a student who was not likely going to survive leaving him short a player.

it may be this topic is merely "titled wrong"

quote:

by niner's parent: My kid who is top half of his class 24 ACT and busted his can this last semester to get a 3.5 is saying what the heck!?

it appears from that info provided that
HE COULD INDEED GET INTO MOST ANY U.S. University

but - - - to play ball???

well, that would (rightly) be up to coaches, wouldn't it???


.

Bee I said bend and not break.

bobblehead,
I understand there are several pages here so I'll wait patiently for you to locate examples of those who are advocating "bending the standards", as you had suggested

. . . . . . .

. . . . .

. . .



.

I know of circumstances where D1 schools wanted a player (who had a learning disability) who had a 2.7 GPA and a very low SAT. One school was willing to fly him down tutor him for a couple weeks for the SAT and have him retest. All schools assured him if he could be cleared by NCAA he would be accepted in the schools and would recieve help to stay elig to play baseball.
Unfair? ...Yes it is its unfair that he has a learning disablity and as hard as he works he could never go to these schools with out being a gifted baseball player... Just as some gifted students will go to college and never play baseball.

I'm not understanding what the problem is here. ALL schools have admission guidelines as does the NCAA they are MINIMUM requirement guidelines. Either a student qualifies or he doesn't. Each and every coach is (or should be) held accountable fot the academic standing of his players. Some coaches are willing to maybe take a chance on a certain player in hopes there may have been circumstances which led to that student maybe not performing up to his potential academically while in high school. That is up to the coach and the university admissions office. Every coach I've spoken to about my son so far has asked for grades, classes and test scores..it WILL have a bearing as their roster is set for a couple of reasons; they only have so much athletic scholarship money available so if a student can receive academic money(which can never be cut as long as the player maintains the academic standards set by the university) it frees up athletic money for others who may not be as gifted students. Also if a coach is looking at 2-3 players to fill a particular need with very little difference in playing abilities the player with a stronger academic background is going to get the first shot. Coaches cannot afford to lose players to academics, there is too much time and effort put in to setting a roster to have it fall apart due to poor grades. The true blue chipper is always going to have opportunities that many other very good players may not have but once there they will have to meet the same standards as the rest of the student body, if that university is willing to take that chance that is their choice. So, except for those few exceptional players GPA will have a strong bearing on receiving D1 offers.

Just because someone posts something doesn’t make it so. I could say a player signed at the University of Alabama and had a 1.1 GPA and a 10 on his ACT. I think some of the numbers may be a little less than accurate. Besides, we have no idea if the ACT was measured on a Jugs or a Stalker.... and the 1.1 GPA may have been into the wind on a wet field.
Fungo

njbb,

quote:

I know of circumstances where D1 schools wanted a player (who had a learning disability) who had a 2.7 GPA and a very low SAT. One school was willing to fly him down tutor him for a couple weeks for the SAT and have him retest.

That wasn't USC was it? They just got hammered for something very similar. From the USC violations report:

quote:

In summer, 2001 when the former associate athletics director ordered the tutor to provide tutoring services to student-athletes 1 and 2, the tutor, the academic advisor and at least one other academic advisor knew that it was impermissible for the institution to provide tutoring to transfers who were not yet enrolled

I would venture a guess that more mental energy has been expended on this thread than has gone into the 1.7 in question...

I was not aware that it was not allowed
No, the school was not USC, wonder how many schools do this?????

VA_Sportsmom....good one

This whole thread started with a bit of hearsay. Would have been thrown out of court long ago.

njbb, I is hard to believe but it is an infraction to give a special benefit to a student athlete.
The school can only give the same help that it gives and is available to all students.
My son visited a school during the quiet period and the coordinator could only show him around the school and give him information that would be given to any student. This school was 3000 miles away and unfortunately that was the only time he could go.
I think it stems from the NCAA mai concern that the student is academically sound.
I think this is a great thread and has become more phylosophical than a real situation. I have learned some interesting things here.

Many things on this board that are posted are heresay. I happen to know the family and the school. I saw the GPA posted on PG as well as others in my area. The GPA is now off and an ACT is posted. I am sorry people, the kid is not special ed or has not been in the past. He just plain doesnt have it upstairs and coming from a small and I mean very small high school to then attend a very major univeristy where there may be 300 people in a classroom, is not a smart move for the kid. He is going to obviously try and maintain grades just so he can be on the field to play. That is sending the wrong message to my kid and this is what this thread was about. My kids is going to college to have success in the classroom, which in turn reflects the life he will live later and how he will eventually support his family. Baseball is right up there in first. You gotta have both.

So now he makes the team and pass by the skin of his teeth to play. Four year later, what is he gonna do. Wow I have my degree in my hand, I didnt learn jack ****, now put me in the world to work with what I was taught. Hell I made it on the ball field, but the real working world is another story. He may end up busing tables. Is that what you go to college for?
And we all know his chances of being drafted.

Maybe the schools can provide add'l help for student athlete with classified learning disability

interesting, and I DO agree that a wrong message is being sent

a player who seems willing to accept a pretty hard road has his laundry hung out by some envious parent

niner says "Four year later, what is he gonna do. Wow I have my degree in my hand"

odds are, he'll be your son's BOSS!!

good luck,
btw, high maintanence parent comes to mind?

quote:

Originally posted by Niner's Parent:
Many things on this board that are posted are heresay. I happen to know the family and the school. I saw the GPA posted on PG as well as others in my area. The GPA is now off and an ACT is posted. I am sorry people, the kid is not special ed or has not been in the past. He just plain doesnt have it upstairs and coming from a small and I mean very small high school to then attend a very major univeristy where there may be 300 people in a classroom, is not a smart move for the kid. He is going to obviously try and maintain grades just so he can be on the field to play. That is sending the wrong message to my kid and this is what this thread was about. My kids is going to college to have success in the classroom, which in turn reflects the life he will live later and how he will eventually support his family. Baseball is right up there in first. You gotta have both.

So now he makes the team and pass by the skin of his teeth to play. Four year later, what is he gonna do. Wow I have my degree in my hand, I didnt learn jack ****, now put me in the world to work with what I was taught. Hell I made it on the ball field, but the real working world is another story. He may end up busing tables. Is that what you go to college for?
And we all know his chances of being drafted.

I don't think the purpose of this website is to come to discredit any player, coach, school, regardless of not mentioning names.
Regardless of you knowing the player or not, to state he has nothing upstairs and saying he isn't going to make it, now or later on, about your conversation with the principal reveals to me, that you should be more concerned with what goes on in your own house, not someone elses. Who are you to judge what happens to others?
I know of many circumstances that could make your head spin of where kids got into schools they shouldn't have. Doesn't look very fair to my kid either, but as a responsible parent we discussed the fact that this is what happens in life, in just about everything you do, not just baseball, try to deal with it the best you can and learn to be a better person because of it. And actually, it's none of your business son.
I am not always understanding of things that happen myself, and I may have messed up saying things I shouldn't have, but not on a public forum. Ultimately, unless it did something to hurt me or my family, it is not my business.

Unless you were there when the coach offered this player an opportunity, I take everything as hearsay.

Chairman,

Niner's parent, your last post sounds like plain old-fashioned jealousy.

"Four year later, what is he gonna do. Wow I have my degree in my hand . . . He may end up busing tables. Is that what you go to college for?"

So what are you saying? That life is only fair if someone sends him directly to the job busing tables right after high school? I hope the kid ends up owning the restaurant - or a chain of them.

Fair.

Very interesting concept.

This kid "just plain doesn't have it upstairs".

He obviously has just enough going for him upstairs to realize he can use the baseball talent he was given to help him get the college degree.

How in the world can that send the wrong message to your kid?

Life is all about using whatever skills you are given - whether those skills are logic skills, writing skills, athletic skills, musical skills, or simply the ability to make folks feel good about themselves.

Fair ?

Don't you think this kid would much prefer to "have it upstairs" along with his baseball talent? After all, your son has both. Why shouldn't he have both.

What lesson should this teach your son?

Perhaps to respect folks who learn to get ahead in life by using what they do have instead of moaning about what they don't have.

And p.s. there is nothing wrong with waiting tables. Respect does not come from your job title.

quote:

Originally posted by PitchDad08:
Niner's parent, your last post sounds like plain old-fashioned jealousy.

"Four year later, what is he gonna do. Wow I have my degree in my hand . . . He may end up busing tables. Is that what you go to college for?"

So what are you saying? That life is only fair if someone sends him directly to the job busing tables right after high school? I hope the kid ends up owning the restaurant - or a chain of them.

In defense of Niner, I would venture to say that, the green ugly monster has emerged in all of us at sometime or another. It's how you handle it that makes a difference in one's life.

Actually, I give teh coach lots of credit. He obviously sees something in this player that others may not, willing to give him a chance to prove that he has some worth, even if it is only on the baseball field for now. My impression is that Niner can't handle his son not having that spot on that big D1, instead may have to "settle" for something else and he feels his son deserves better, thouh maybe others may not see it that way. Do not use an excuse for what happens to others for what doesnot happen for you. Very bad lesson.

Long long time ago a CEO of a major company gave a black american an opportunity to work under him that many couldn't understand. He obviously saw something in him that others didn't, not as the buzz was, he only got it because of his color. Some thought he was crazy (teh CEO), he was not following the usual policy of the company awarding the BEST, SMARTEST for the opportunity. The company was in trouble, and the individual took a concept and turned the whole company back to a major contender and put mega money back into stockholders pockets. The individual also became the successor when the CEO stepped down, he had proved something to all the non believers, he could do what others couldn't though he may not have been the right person many thought should have teh job, he took adversity and diversity and proved them wrong.
My two thoughts on this story. One, the CEO went against the norm and gave this person a chance.
Two, as long as the CEO had approval of his board members, it was no one else's business.

It isn't fair that the uneducated gigolo who lives next door to me makes five times the money I make, and has many more intimate encounters than I have!!!!

C'mon.....we all have our own theories and definitions of concepts. Our own definitions may not be universal.

When my kids were very young, at the age when many kids use the phrase, "That's not fair", I nipped that in the bud by telling my kids that everything is fair, that everybody has the ability to make something of themselves and their circumstances. I haven't heard them use that phrase in over a decade.

I realize this isn't what the topic is about, but it is related to what many are writing.

Our kids can take whatever message they want from the situation involved in this thread. Everybody CHOOSES to take whatever message they want based on how they choose to perceive the situation.

Our country is based on accepting diversity, but often some of our most intelligent people have difficulty accepting opinions and actions that are contrary to what they think is right.

All situations are not clear cut. Every person is in a unique position to perceive reality in his/her own way.

We can choose to whine and complain about the messages that we 'think' somebody's actions are sending, or we can choose to be responsible for our own successes and shortcomings. Either choice we make, somebody else's actions are not in our control.

We all choose something. We can control what we think, which in turn controls our emotions, and our emotions can, either fortunately or unfortunately, influence our actions and words.

grateful,

Nice philosophical post. Another way of saying part of it:

"The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be..."

John Milton, Paradise Lost

I started and then stopped reading this thread a few days ago.

He just plain doesn't have it upstairs.
He just plain doesn't have it upstairs.
He just plain doesn't have it upstairs.
He just plain doesn't have it upstairs.

Hmmm. Nope. Not sounding any more intelligent yet....

Hooray for this kid! I wish him the very best. ESPECIALLY if he is indeed learning disabled.
And just how would one know if he had any disability or not? Perhaps the principal enlightened a parent about that as well?

Personally, the principal needs to be taken out and horse whipped in my opinion.

And by the way, to some degree, a learning disabled student may have some advantage over a "regular" student/athlete. (There are all these messy federal laws regarding those "learning disabled / special ed" kids). Visit the US DOE website for more details.

I suppose some folks would think that's unfair as well....

Good post Grateful, very thoughtful....with lots of truth.

MN-Mom,.....I'll use that quote if you don't mine....with my son....can see need for it from time to time....

Good luck to the young man with the 1.7....and yes, the principal should be reprimanded....

News is Georgia Tech just put on prbation for using 19 academically ineligible players in various sp[orts over a 4 year period.
Interesting!

re-post by me on the GT probation -

quote:

unfortunate, but don't read too much into it

the 17 infractions spanned 7 yrs, they were self-discovered, self-reported and self-remedied by GT, and deemed un-intentional by the NCAA

it's the first EVER NCAA action on GT, so unfortunatly some pretty competent people will get stirred up

btw, baseball NOT involved

a ps - compliance can be a pretty tangled web. on one occasion I had a compliance issue that I sought advice from the NCAA on, the NCAA guy who developed/interprets rules in this area was WRONG & the school compliance officer was correct - go figure



.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
a ps - compliance can be a pretty tangled web. on one occasion I had a compliance issue that I sought advice from the NCAA on, the NCAA guy who developed/interprets rules in this area was WRONG & the school compliance officer was correct - go figure

.

The NCAA sounds somewhat as competent as the IRS, Bee

from what I heard re the probation

there's a (kinda) rare situation where you can get a D in a class, AND - be
WELL WITHIN UNIVERSITY academic standards,
WELL WITHIN NCAA academic standards,

yet fall OUTSIDE NCAA progress toward major standards



.

quote:

Originally posted by itsagreatgame:
And by the way, to some degree, a learning disabled student may have some advantage over a "regular" student/athlete. (There are all these messy federal laws regarding those "learning disabled / special ed" kids). Visit the US DOE website for more details.

I suppose some folks would think that's unfair as well....

Having had way too much experience with those messy federal laws, I can say that a lot of kids would have NO chance at success in school without them.

Long ago I thought that sometimes life is just unfair and you learn to deal with it - now I believe that (at least when it comes to school) fairness is actually giving each kid what he or she needs to be successful. IF that includes laws mandating accommodations then so be it - and believe me I am not a fan of too much government regulation. When I was a kid in the 60's, the 'special ed' kids had perpetual recess. Fortunately learning disabled kids today are not written off as a waste of time to teach!

itsagreatgame - I know you are not saying those laws are unfair, but just have to add my take on them

topdogfan:
As a parent of a student with documented disabilities, and a parent of a student in a large, otherwise well respected public high school whose Special Ed department could care less about the learning disabled and federal and state law (until the ENTIRE SpEd department was overhauled this year) and as the parent of same student with disabilities that had his IEP ignored more often than not, and as a parent of same said student who actually had to enlist the aid of a professional advocate / attorney, and all but file federal discrimination charges as well as an ethics complaint with the state education agency, just let me say...

Thanks for your support.

Feel blessed that you have had a positive experience with the learning disabled near and dear to you. In our situation, the fact that the school district had six lawsuits pending may have had something to do with the sudden overhaul of the school/district SpEd department. It's a shame it had to come to that but there was some comfort in knowing we were not alone, warped as that may seem on the surface. Unfortunately, it does not reverse the liability my kid has incurred as a result. Those liabilities reach far outside the classroom. Once a kid is labeled, well, you know, he's labeled for a while. Fortunatley, said kid is working very hard to 'catch up' and if there is anything at this point that prevents him from getting some sort of baseball scholarship, it won't be his ability on the field (proven otherwise to too many professionals) and it won't be an SAT score or gpa. It will be an ignorant adult that can't see the value in those messy federal laws, silly accommodations and modifications, who doesn't "believe that he has any problem learning just like the others".

I honestly tried to get through this entire year without going off on this tangent. And as "public" as this forum is or is not, I had always vowed not to give anyone even the slightest hint of my son's situation. There are many on this board that know him or know of him. But as the topic took on a life of it's own to some extent and veered to the topic of disabilities, it would be grossly unfair of me not to mention there are kids out there that DO deserve a chance if they have the ability on the field and a hope of success in the classroom.

Sorry - an emotional topic with me and those emotions sometimes preclude the coherent expression of the written word. I guess the kid comes by it somewhat honestly....

quote:

Originally posted by itsagreatgame:
Feel blessed that you have had a positive experience with the learning disabled near and dear to you.
...
Sorry - an emotional topic with me and those emotions sometimes preclude the coherent expression of the written word. I guess the kid comes by it somewhat honestly....

its - I do feel blessed, but any positive experiences we may have had were due to someone else going before us fighting the system as you are now.

Totally understand the emotions

lol

Now the thread turns to me being jealous, interesting how you turn things. Cheap shot. I see why some dont post here and just read.

I still say grades and the kids succes in life are the most important, regardless of what you think my intent is.

As far as the principl goes this kid is on the team. WE as parents are all people that know one another and talk regularly. This is NO secret. I guess some dont get this. It is public knowledge in this town and others who play against this kids team. Again it was public on the PG website up till recently. The parents were obviously not hiding it. Now because his gpa is low you want to place him as disabled. Well he's not. Maybe he should of had an IEP, then there would be some understanding to it.

Maybe some of you need to reread what I have posted.