Getting good GPA bull at DIV I

I know that schools will accept players with not so great GPAs if a coach wants them - my own son is proof, although he was certainly better than 1.7, had good ACT scores, and was clearinghouse eligible. The kid that is being discussed is going to have a hard time getting numbers where they need to be for Clearinghouse. However, it's obvious that the coach was willing to gamble on the kid, so there may be things here we don't know. However, like topdogfan said, I have a hard time understanding a choice of a big school when a kid hasn't been a good HS student. Many kids will do better in college than they did in HS - but some do just the opposite.

TR Hit if you want to email me I will tell you the school. I did go look at PG websit, lol his GPA is down but ACT is up at 21. They have to be going off the ACT score. I could not imagine he would be in the top half of his class.

I also know a kid, good friend of my son that is attending a D1 school scored 18 on the ACT and had poor grades through high school.

Also you must realize in the State of Iowa you only have to pass four classes to play sports. You may take 8 , but 4 must be passed. Legislature is looking to change that and make student/athletes pass all classes.

I think we have to realize all states are different. However I still think we are setting this kid up to fail at a large university.

My guess is his core classes had a decent gpa.

Niner -Again, if he brought the ACT score up, he may be bringing the GPA up as well and may be planning on attempting to bring that ACT score up further. Plus, if I remember correctly, for clearinghouse they take the highest scores of each area from each ACT test. For example, the highest english, the higest math, etc. So, it's possible that the total points could be respectable. GPA is used by many as a reflection of a kid's academic effort, not necessarily their IQ. Again, the coach may know something we don't know.

quote:

by oldvaman: Just because you have good grades doesn't mean you deserve a scholarship, especially an athletic scholarship.

seemingly a minority view here

this is just the next level of continuing frustration for some -

it's not necessary to be a "scholar" to get thru college anyway

and anyone admitted CAN get thru if he's willing to work at it -
in reality easier for a ballplayer because of his peer group & support

the academic support programs "force" time management, have mandantory study tables with tutors available as needed - ya stay in that environment until you can prove you don't need it - 4+ yrs if need be -


Again, my props to the player - no frustation here

he's got an opportunity to get an education, play some ball, and leave behind the town that "knows what's best for him" & the principal who thinks he's a "no-account"

good luck - it's a win - win deal


.

This kid must be a special player, at least in the eyes of the coaches at this school.
For starters, they are banking on the kid raising the GPA to 2.0 and then putting up an ACT of 22 or higher just to be eligible. Even then, as TR says, what schools would admit the kid? I would never work with a kid like this unless he agreed to go JUCO first.
Make no mistake about it, grades are secondary to athletic talent at the D1 level. However, a player like this has to be considered a serious academic risk, and the punitive measures under the new academic reform movement make this scenario potentially very costly.
There are too many kids out there who can play and that take care of business in the classroom for coaches to take unnecessary risks on substandard students. It happens, but it happens far less in this day and age than some would have you think.
I suspect that the coach is rolling the dice here. He signs the kid to a LOI, but realizes that he may never reach eligibility or satisfy the admissions people. If he does and, coach has to really baby sit this player academically. He may be Babe Ruth on the field, but he's worthless and potentially costly if he's academically ineligible.

Posted by others:
"This kid sounds like a JUCO candidate."
"I expect JUCO will be his only option...heck, they'll take just about anybody."
"...smart enough to realize how hard he would have to work right out of HS so chose the JUCO route."
"We figured hey he is going JUCCO due to his grades."
"If you're not serious about the student part, go JUCO or some other route."

The myth of 'JUCO=easy' lives on. Every year alot of decent baseball players are shocked to find themselves ineligible to play JUCO ball. I'm sure their parents are no less shocked.

JUCOs are colleges, at least around here. Marginal students will probably find the academics and work load difficult.

"win-win" - you can't be serious. Support groups are one thing, but let's face it, it's going to take a VILLAGE to ensure this guy is eligible. I don't want to bet on someone's failure, and I like to give young folks the benefit of the doubt, but let's not pretend here. Clearly the D1 school here is just a backdrop for him to potentially launch a baseball career - and we know what the odds are for that. Does that make the kid a winner - not likely. Does the coach win? Wait til his NCAA APR stats catch up with him. What about deserving athletes who have already demonstrated classroom performance? Do they win? Maybe you know something the principal doesn't. Fine - give the kid the benefit of the doubt, but let's not pretend this approach represents the right thing to do. This certainly isn't a school I'd send my kid to.

I just want to clarify that I in no way think that JUCO's are easy, I honestly don't know what the academics are like. But just from the volumes I've read and researched it seems that the admissions requirements are a lot less strict. to quote from "The High School Players Guide to College Baseball": JC's generally offer an open door admissions policy so you don't have to worry about getting in. You must, however, meet one of the following requirements: 1. Graduate from high school 2. Receive a high school equivalency diploma 3. Pass a national test such as a GED." I meant no offense to the gentleman from Western NY. If my son ends up at a JUCO and plays ball, we'll be tickled pink. They get noticed, no doubt, tons of kids drafted every year.

quote:

Originally posted by PioneerDad:
Posted by others:

"...smart enough to realize how hard he would have to work right out of HS so chose the JUCO route."

The myth of 'JUCO=easy' lives on. Every year alot of decent baseball players are shocked to find themselves ineligible to play JUCO ball. I'm sure their parents are no less shocked.

JUCOs are colleges, at least around here. Marginal students will probably find the academics and work load difficult.

The one quoted above is mine, so I will explain myself. My son looked at a couple D1's where their freshman comp classes had a couple hundred students. My son's comp class (and all his others at his juco) have less than 30. At U. of KY. the students in those classes are sitting in the halls watching lectures on monitors, taught by graduate assistants because there is not enough seating in the classroom. That is not in the least conducive to the success of a marginal student.

His coach requires study tables almost every night and they are on top of what is going on in the classroom. I know those supports are available at all schools, but the class size alone was a BIG turnoff to him.

ok.

Pioneer Dad - My reference to JUCO (which is what my own son is a freshman at) is that they can simply offer more assistance for the player who hasn't been a strong student - whether that be by choice, disability, etc. They have smaller classes and typically are more oriented towards helping a player succeed in the classroom. My son's JUCO has mandatory study tables four nights/week! I think it's a wonderful transition for many students - not knocking them at all. There are also many excellent students at JUCO (that is a big misconception that all the students are challenged academically) - players that aren't sure of what school they want to attend, players looking for more financial support than NCAA, players looking to be drafted before three years are up. It is not a route for a kid who just can't perform in the classroom or has no desire to be successful in that area. They'll struggle there as well.

quote:

Originally posted by PopTime:
ok.

Sorry PopTime, I hit post too soon. Went back and finished my thoughts

TDF
And your points are good ones!

tdf - Your son's school sounds like my son's school!

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom:
tdf - Your son's school sounds like my son's school!

Small world, huh?

quote:

by va_mom: Fine - give the kid the benefit of the doubt, but let's not pretend this approach represents the right thing to do. This certainly isn't a school I'd send my kid to.

how can you be certain that it's NOT your son's school?


this topic parallels many others

"my LL guy worked his butt off and the lazy 1B got all the awards 'cause he hit a few HR's"

"my HS guy never missed a weight room session, but the guy that seldom showed up was All-State"

"my guy with pin-point control (AKA 72 mph) is overlooked", & the guy who's throwing 88 mph is getting all the looks"

now- "the guy who can MASH is getting college opportunities, over the guy that can study"

what's next??

"my guy (Ortiz) is overlooked, just because the other guy
(ARod) is an ANOINTED YANKEE"






.

Don't let's get started on that!!!!!

Bee, I know because we did our homework - checked APRs, grad rates, admission stats, GPAs, and addressed it specifically with the coach. My point is, there are other more suitable baseball opportunities for the case in question rather than taking up spots in a D1 college that better serve quality athletes who really want to learn. In regard to your parallels, my guy wasn't overlooked, but I've seen some smart, talented kids (not charity cases either) take a back seat to academic risk cases who flame out within a year - a total waste of precious scholarship money.

quote:

by va_mom: My point is, there are other more suitable baseball opportunities for the case in question rather than taking up spots in a D1 college that better serve quality athletes who really want to learn.

pehaps YOU could form a committee to review these type of cases

OOPS, that committee already exists

it's called ADMISSIONS







.

I already serve on a scholarship committee, and the admissions folks at the schools we chose don't need any help as they do a fine job. Speaking of taking up space, what's with your posts?

What bothers me and you hear it often is the jock who is doing "F" work and getting a "D" because of Athletic pressure. If this was the case for this 1.7 kid, what is his real gpa. It borders on being impossible to be able to have a 1.7 gpa and still have passed all the core reqirements to get into a D1 school.

I'm with TR and his question

quote:

All things aside I still ask the question--what D-1 school accepts baseball player with a 1.7 GPA regardless of his SAT/ACT scores ?

VASportsmom

"This isn't a school I would send my son to"

You just proved my point about options. That is precisely the advantage the kid who has good grades has over kids like this one. They can pick and choose which school they want to go to.

A kid like this is limited to a handful of schools willing to take on a huge risk. He has limited himself. It takes tremendous talent to find yourself in a situation like this. Your player of "average D1 talent" is not going to be so lucky.

So don't despair. Hitting the books and getting good grades DOES help you. It just doesn't put you ahead of the player with more talent.

quote:

by va_mom: Speaking of taking up space, what's with your posts?

known as page layout & white space

in part a carry over from english lit - stretching a 2 page essay into 5, easier on the eyes, etc


thanks

for

noticing


.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by va_mom: Speaking of taking up space, what's with your posts?

known as page layout & white space

in part a carry over from english lit - stretching a 2 page essay into 5, easier on the eyes, etc

I apologize for not reading through all 4 pages to get here, but 1.7- what school is it. I find it impossible to believe. With 1.7 in HS, how will this young man stay eligible to play in college? How was he eligible to play in HS? What coach would take a chance with this?

At most, if true, it is must be some weird aberration. When my son went through the process, we went to many events, talked to dozens of schools, never heard of anyone interested in a 1.7, unless that was their time to first base

A couple pages back, the question was asked about how often the core GPA is higher than overall. My guess is that for average or worse students, that it happens quite frequently. Since the core GPA for Clearinghouse purposes is figure on a formula of what classes are required [3 English, 2 Math, 2 Science, one more from that group, 2 Social Studies, 2 more from THAT group, 2 foreign language, etc] it is possible to have a couple of Ds in math, english, science, and they are not factored in to your core GPA. This will become less prevalent starting in 07, when 16 core classes are required, vice 14 now.

For whatever reason the kid has a 1.7 [ADD, lazy, just plain stupid, or whatever] it hardly is a ringing endorsement for the school he plans to attend, nor is it a portent of a four year career there, the specter of flunking out, notwithstanding. Hopefully for the kid, he has the ability/makes the choice/gets the help required, in order to make the most ACADEMICALLY at his new D1, lest he fall by the wayside.

Sounds to me like this boy is being set up for failure or he's just going there until he thinks he'll be drafted. Personally, I wouldn't want to do that to my son. He was diagnosed with ADHD by the school in elementary school. He always had to work harder to get B's and C's. In HS, didn't want to be "different" so refused to take advantage of many of the opportunities he could have taken advantage of, like untimed tests, etc. If it was a subject he liked, he did well, and if he didn't like it, well, he just got by. I thought he should take the juco route since they usually do have smaller classes and extra help. He didn't want to go that route and instead chose a smaller D-III. I have to admit, I had a thought or two that he'd decide college wasn't for him once he got there but he's really surprised us. His grades are better and he actually will meet w/professors on his own if he needs extra help. Maybe this young man will mature and take advantage of the extras his school may have too. But you're right about a D-I in many cases having oversized classes and you can become just a number whereas in a smaller setting the professors actually know you by name. If I were his parents, I'd really have to think about setting my son up for failure.

PAbbMom,
You bring up a good point. Might be if he is expected to be drafted he signed for leverage in the draft, with no intentions of attending. Coaches do offer opportunities to some who they know will never set foot ona college campus.

I happen to know of quite a few highly ranked who were signed at certain schools (because they probably weren't going anyway) and drafted. I happend to notice their GPA/SAT on PG profile and although they qualified under the clearinghouse,couldn't for the life of me figure out how they would get through school.

This thread is one of the most intriguing threads I have seen. I just looked at it for the first time......and after reading all of the posts, I realize that we have an unbelievable number of 'glass half empty people'.

quote:

Originally posted by grateful:
This thread is one of the most intriguing threads I have seen. I just looked at it for the first time......and after reading all of the posts, I realize that we have an unbelievable number of 'glass half empty people'.

Say what?

Yeah Grateful.....please explain.....is the kid with the 1.7 in the top half or bottom half?

....if 1.6 is still the minimum at the end of the freshman year, he's in the eligible half.

Sorry ladies, but I didn't mean to be vague.....but I had to go into the living room to watch some more of the CMA Award Show.....awesome......and just now Brooks and Dunn did their new song "Believe".......it was fabulous........that kid who has a 1.7 has a coach who may believe in that kid more than anybody else ever has.......don't know........but isn't it great when somebody believes in you? or in anyone?

I have three older kids, and a young'un.

The oldest had trouble in school, she has a learning disability and has a slight case of CP. She recieved TOO much help in High School, and when it came time to go to college, she was lost, she then went to a JUCO, but by that time had lost interest and dropped out, got married and moved on with her life.

My middle daughter is 19, struggled to get A's and B's in High School, with the occasional C in math. She worked her tail off, and is now a very successful college student.

My son is 17, a Jr. in HS, in the top 10 percent of his class, never brings a book home, never studies. I worry about him in college because it's been too easy for him.

My point? I think you have to learn how to study to succeed in college, no matter how smart you are.

I had a 31 ACT, top 3 in my class, and failed out of Northern Illinois because I found out the Sigma Alpha Mu's had parties every other night.

quote:

but isn't it great when somebody believes in you?

You know what guys.....someone posted earlier and said that nowadays....if you just show up for class....you get a passing grade....and that is the truth......

So....if we have a player with a 1.7....don't think he is putting out any effort....but then again we can all second guess forever...we really don't know the particulars.....

But....unless there are some extremely extenduating circumstances.....why does a kid with a 1.7 deserve any more special consideration then a kid working hard at his studies......??????

Yeah.....because he can throw hard and run well......

I'd rather believe in the potential of a kid who will work for both......academics and baseball......

It is easier to believe in a kid who has proven that he will work hard and get good grades, but as many have said, we aren't privy to all the circumstances with this particular kid.

I can say it is a fact that many students who were high achievers in high school have failed (miserably) academically in college......and many high risk kids have succeeded tremendously in college.

Most of you are correct in saying that the coach offering the scholarship is taking a big risk; that is correct. Stealing home is risky, but when done successfully is unbelievably satisfying.

It is the coach's and the institution's risk, not our risk. It is also a risk taking a hard throwing pitcher who has control problems, but coaches do it. Who are any of us to say that the coach is wrong for taking the kid.

Many of us who contribute to these forums have written many times about the importance of getting good grades in high school, and it is important, but it isn't the only thing.

I would have loved to have a local kid a few years ago who had a 1.7 GPA.....but my school wouldn't admit him, though I tried to lobby for him. He has a learning disability. After being at over 100 Division I games in the last couple years, I am convinced this kid could be succeeding at a Division I school on the baseball field, and with help in the classroom. He decided not to go to school at all. Nobody ever believed in him as a student. When he didn't get into my school, he decided he didn't want to be in that uncomfortable environment anymore, so now he is mowing lawns, landscaping, working hard and doing it well. I know him very well, and his family, as he had been a teammate of my son's for several years. He would have gone to school if we just would have given him the opportunity. I was willing to take that risk.

That doesn't mean that other good, hard working students were not being given consideration by this coach.....it really has nothing to do with any other kid. There are high achieving kids who have poor attitudes and are distractions on teams.....or their parents cause problems, and coaches take risks on them.

Which would you prefer, a good, unselfish kid with bad grades, or a self-centered high achieving cancer of a kid on your team? In a heartbeat, I pick kid #1.

I think maybe coaches will be less willing to take flyers on kids with questionable grades in the future. What I understand is that the NCAA will be "punishing" schools which don't graduate a certain percentage of players by lowering the amount of scholarships that they can give, as if it's not already ridiculously low. This is something I seem to remember hearing at a recruiting seminar a while back. There was a big stink being raised by schools who typically have a lot of kids drafted after their junior years, so I really don't know where it stands at this point.

Grateful, You do bring up some very good points. What you said was actually echoed by a coach that recruited my own son. We were concerned that the school might be too "academic" for him although he was admitted to the school. The coach expressed exactly what you said - almost using those exact words as a matter of fact. To him, a high GPA or ACT wasn't what made a good student or baseball player. He felt my son was a "winner". It is a good thing to have someone feel that way about you. As I said earlier, it is possible that this coach knows something we don't or as you said has a reason to believe in the kid.

The NCAA,Clearing House and the schools set standards for a reason. The rules are there to ensure that a student has a reasonable chance to graduate. The standards are relatively low. To these people the academics are the most important goal of a student not the sport.
I have a problem with a student who does poorly at school up to his serior year in HS if it is not due to a dissability. He did not find out yesterday that he needed good grades. Why should he be allowed to get into a school if he made no effort during HS. Where were his parents?
This student has other avenues that may be a better fit and allow him to show he can do better. He created the situation and has to fix it.
The NCAA has had a long history of trying to clean up the over zealous coaches and cheating that used to go on. What is wrong with having to achieve a goal which requires good grades and athletic skills. I know lots of great ball players who know they are not NCAA players and who don't like academics. One wants to be a carpenter. He is attending a JUCO and loves it.