Getting good GPA bull at DIV I

Niner, That's a very unusual scenario. If the info is correct, the school must desperately want the kid PLUS they must feel he's going to be able to bring scores and GPA up. With that info, he wouldn't be clearinghouse eligible.

I can guarantee that a kid with a 1.7 and poor ACT scores has alot less options than a kid with a 3.0 and good scores.

Yes, a kid with lousy grades will still get offers, but he won't have nearly as many open doors as a kid with good grades. I think yuo need to reevaluate your opinion here. Some colleges are much tougher to get into than others. It's not like the kid is going to a top tier school, right?

Only thing I can figure is his ACT is good at the second try around, and they are going to get him some help as far as his studies go. Granted I do believe this kid can play DI I have not doubt he can. He has worked hard for it on the field. But to know the grade situation makes it difficult to accept.

I find it hard to see a kid with a 1.7 GPA get into a Division I school much less any other school of good repute

How long do you think a kid like this remains eligible????

And how does he get approved by the Clearinghouse--their GPA scale stops at 2.0 as the lowest

Niner, think what the other posters are saying is very valid, based on our experiences. Many more options with a good GPA and SAT....

It is not unheard of for a 'student' like this to be recruited and signed in the early period. It is also pretty common to learn in the spring that the student has either been denied admission to school, or has been declared ineligible by NCAA Clearinghouse.

As a coach, taking a flier on a 'student' like this might be a low risk venture. If he makes it, good for the kid & good for the coach. If he doesn't, a well prepared coach has already prepared an alternate plan.

I was under the impression from some coaches that they could not bring a kid on an official visit or make an offer if he had a core GPA below a 2.0 . I may be wrong but his SAT or ACT nust be decent to carry that kind of GPA.

dbg_fan got it right I think. The coach is taking a shot in the dark. This kid sounds like a JUCO candidate. Even if he brought his GPA up to 2.0, wouldn't his ACT or SAT's have to be off the charts to be cleared by the NCAA?

my hearty congrats to the player on his signing -

he must have done something right to attract a coach's attention as an early signee and deserves some respect & a pat on the back -

I figure a coach who's been recruiting him has a pretty good read on the situation

heck, look how the kid's ACT has improved in just 4 posts - no reason to think the GPA won't follow






.

I'm with BEE....give him an atta boy! I think we are all limited as to where we can go. At least I know I am. Think about it: If we all had high GPAs and ACTs, who would moderate the HSBBW?
Fungo

Fungo -

I don't know about official visits, but I do know that schools can extend NLI's to players who don't yet meet Clearinghouse standards. There was a player at my son's JUCO a couple of years ago who signed with a MAJOR MAJOR Div. 1 school, but ended up not being able to enroll because they found out he had only 12 college credits. he jumped to a NAIA school instead.

lhpx2,
I'm sure someone knows better than me but during my son's recruitment the school HAD to have a transcript of his grades and his clearinghouse information before they would do something???? and I can't remember what that something was. (offer? NLI?) Help out folks.
Fungo

NCAA schools will ask for this information before official visits. Not sure if they have to have it per NCAA or this is a school's choice.

The Standard language of the NLI includes the following paragraph:

quote:

Section 7: Letter Becomes Null and Void.
This NLI shall be declared null and void if any of the following occur:

A: Admissions Requirement.
This NLI shall be declared null and void if the institution named in this document notifies me in writing that I have been denied admission or, by the opening day of classes in the fall 2006 has failed to provide me with written notice of admission, provided I have submitted a complete admission application.

1. It is presumed that I am eligible for admission and financial aid until information is submitted to the contrary. Thus, it is mandatory for me, upon request, to provide a transcript of my previous academic record and an application for admission to the institution named in this document.

2. If I am eligible for admission, but the institution named in this document defers admission to a subsequent term, the NLI shall be rendered null and void. However, if I defer my admission, this NLI remains binding.

B. Eligibility Requirements.
This NLI shall be declared null and void if, by the opening day of classes in the fall of 2006, I have not met (a) the institution’s requirements for admissions, (b) its academic requirements for financial aid to athletes, or (c) the NCAA requirements for freshman financial aid (NCAA Bylaw 14.3) or the junior college transfer requirements.

1. If I become a nonqualifier (per NCAA Bylaw 14.3), this NLI shall be rendered null and void.

The University isn't taking much of a chance. If a player still doesn't meet the Universities Admission requirements after graduation, he may meet them by attending summer classes after graduation. It the admissions requirement still isn't met, then the University/College has no commitment at all.

Meanwhile, a player MAY become eligible down the road and you've scarfed up some talent. I'd advise the player in question to research alternatives. In a case like this it may be advisable to sign an NLI with a Juco with the understanding that persuing the 4 year college career is the players main intent.

Some colleges process the NLI and send the information on to the Admission Department. Depending on the institution, they may or may NOT be able to get the player into that school.

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom:
NCAA schools will ask for this information before official visits. Not sure if they have to have it per NCAA or this is a school's choice.

Before you can go on an official visit, the college must have received a copy of your transcript. This is an NCAA requirement.

Are scholarships not being tied to graduation rates? The way that I understand the situation is if a coach signs a student/athlete and that student/athlete flunks out or transfers the program will loose some portion of a baseball scholarship. Is this true? How could a coach take that type of risk?

HHH,
Is this a preliminary to "greyshirting"?

Hey what the heck, kudos to the kid, it's done in football all of the time. And, he might get drafted, so ther is no question about eligibility.

The parent going around town telling other parents makes no sense to me. Other than to show how much more important baseball is over one's education.

Bee,

Not doubting Niners' quote of 1.7 GPA - maybe that's his overall GPA, not the GPA for the core class requirements?? However, it's hard to believe his core GPA is higher than his overall, when you factor in gym class, etc into overall. If he is a senior, it's awfully late to pull that GPA up - if he does pull it up, it means he probably had the capability all along, and was slacking,

My question is this: HOW THE HECK IS HE GRADUATING FROM HS WITH A 1.7??!! Sounds like Jethro Bodine could have gotten past his 6th grade edgamacation and gone on to better things than being a double naught spy, if he went to that school.

Sounds like he can handle the level of baseball at the school, but what about the academics?? He still has to be able to pass his course work at the U. Might be getting in over his head, academics-wise; if so where does that leave him??

Yes, it is possible to graduate with that low a GPA, provided his is a state where state tests determine passage of a course. My kid actually got a D in a course (American history) where he passed the state exam with honors. I'll not bore you with the story, but it can happen.

My son's Clearinghouse GPA was actually almost four-tenths higher than his "official" GPA, and neither was very good. A 2.0 Clearinghouse GPA means you have to have a 1010 on the SAT. Does it happen often that a low GPA can still make that score? No, but it does happen.

That son right now is a junior in college. His overall GPA for four semesters is like 2.8, and his semester will be about that.

So yes, push your kids to get the best grades they can. But know that a 90-plus fastball and a 6-5, 250 player that can run 4.5 has options others don't have, sometimes the same options as has the high honor student.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

oldVaman....except....what is more attainable by the average youth baseball player......good grades or a 90+ fastball?

I'd rather bet on a sure thing and/or promote the good grades........

I repeat--what Division I college accepts a student, forget if he is an athlete or not, with a 1.7 GPA

If they exist it has to be a very short list and once I see that short list thye go on my no no list-- what are they telling kids?

TR, I can see some colleges admitting 1.7 GPA kids, but what I can't imagine is them offering a scholarship to one. They may be scrutinized prior to admission, but I can see the need to get/keep enrollment up at some places being a deciding foce in admissions. That of course would be the exception, not the rule. Again, I can't imagine them passing the smell test in awarding scholarships.

As for TPM, who said that she couldn't see parents running around town saying their kid couldn't get into college because of grades, and somehow translating that to baseball being more important that education to those parents, you can't seriously think of that as a blanket statement. My son has poor grades and wants to play at his favorite D1 school, but I happen to know that it isn't going to be possible with those grades. When others ask about his future, I tell them that grades will be his Waterloo if he doesn't get off his ash. He's currently a Junior, so there is hope, but... I expect JUCO will be his only option...heck, they'll take just about anybody.

Re-reading the original thread starter to make sure of the point, but we are talking about a very infrequent event. There have to be some unique circumstances. But they do happen.

quote:

Originally posted by jaxnbulldog:
TR, I can see some colleges admitting 1.7 GPA kids, but what I can't imagine is them offering a scholarship to one. They may be scrutinized prior to admission, but I can see the need to get/keep enrollment up at some places being a deciding foce in admissions. That of course would be the exception, not the rule. Again, I can't imagine them passing the smell test in awarding scholarships.

As for TPM, who said that she couldn't see parents running around town saying their kid couldn't get into college because of grades, and somehow translating that to baseball being more important that education to those parents, you can't seriously think of that as a blanket statement. My son has poor grades and wants to play at his favorite D1 school, but I happen to know that it isn't going to be possible with those grades. When others ask about his future, I tell them that grades will be his Waterloo if he doesn't get off his ash. He's currently a Junior, so there is hope, but... I expect JUCO will be his only option...heck, they'll take just about anybody.

Question, would you go around telling people your son did very poorly in school but managed to get signed at a D1? Most probably not. If it was me, I would be vey happy and keep my mouth shut.

Folks this is not the norm and we don't know the whole story, you don't know his situation.
Besides, he only signed he has not been accepted. Maybe he has a disability, as I stated we all don't know but quick to pass judgement, myself included.

Here in Florida our JUCO's don't take just about everybody.

quote:

Originally posted by OldVaman:

My son's Clearinghouse GPA was actually almost four-tenths higher than his "official" GPA, and neither was very good.

OldVaman - I wondered how often this happens. My son's clearinghouse GPA was also higher than his overall GPA. C's in guitar, pottery, art - sheesh, how hard can those classes be?

I don't understand why a student that struggles like that would want to attempt it. Even though my son is a D1 qualifier, he (and we) was smart enough to realize how hard he would have to work right out of HS so chose the JUCO route. A much easier adjustment for a poor student.

As TPM and some others have stated, sometimes we are too quick to pass judgement on the issue of grades and academic effort.

It would be politically incorrect to say, "Why does that kid even attempt to go to a prestigious college if he has a hearing impairment?", or "Geez, the lazy kid, he could hear as well as my kid if he would just try harder." or "I can't see any disability, I think it's just an excuse."

Approximately 1 in 20 students in our high schools have a learning impairment in the form of ADD. Medically, it's a problem with the coating around some of the nerve fibers in the brain, and it causes "traffic jams" of information being sent through the nerves, and problems filtering out extraneous messages and focusing on the primary one. It can be detected on a specific type of brain scan that is rarely done because it's very expensive. Yet there are teachers and parents who think that it's not a medical condition, but evidence of laziness. Some others would call it a disability; I would call it a different-ability, or a need to sometimes learn in a different way.

I admire a young man I know who chose to work hard without any special accomodations or medication in HS to compensate for ADD and graduate from an academically demanding private high school with a B-/C+ GPA. He scored higher on standardized tests (ACT) than his GPA would predict, which helped him gain admittance to an academically respected D3 college (the ACT vs. GPA imbalance is fairly common in boys with ADD). Now he is playing baseball and maintaining a C+ average in his sophomore year of college. Would he prefer to earn an A average? Sure! But if he has to work as hard for his C+ as some others work for As, but he gets to play college baseball and graduate with a degree from a respected college - that is a very worthwhile accomplishment. I'm glad he didn't listen to some who wondered if he could succeed in college at all.

Just to clarify things. The dad didn't blab it all over town. Just to people in general, other parents whos kids play on the team. The kid even posted his GPA on the Pefect Game Website last year. I have seen this young man at JUCCO visits when my son has been there. We figured hey he is going JUCCO due to his grades. The next thing we see on the news he signed with an D1 school. The principal at the high school told me personallythis past summer, the kid would never get into a D1 school with the grades he was making. We were saying the kid was an awesome player and his grades came up.

My kid who is top half of his class 24 ACT and busted his can this last semester to get a 3.5 is saying what the heck!?

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
As TPM and some others have stated, sometimes we are too quick to pass judgement on the issue of grades and academic effort.
.
.
I admire a young man I know who chose to work hard without any special accomodations or medication in HS to compensate for ADD and graduate from an academically demanding private high school with a B-/C+ GPA. He scored higher on standardized tests (ACT) than his GPA would predict, which helped him gain admittance to an academically respected D3 college (the ACT vs. GPA imbalance is fairly common in boys with ADD). Now he is playing baseball and maintaining a C+ average in his sophomore year of college. Would he prefer to earn an A average? Sure! But if he has to work as hard for his C+ as some others work for As, but he gets to play college baseball and graduate with a degree from a respected college - that is a very worthwhile accomplishment. I'm glad he didn't listen to some who wondered if he could succeed in college at all.

MN-Mom - I wasn't meaning to pass judgement. I understand what you are saying. My son has ADHD and Tourette as I have discussed on other threads.

What I probably should have said was that there are easier routes to get where he wants to end up than to put what might be extreme pressure on himself to succeed where it might be more difficult for him. I have just seen my son struggle too much with his academics (through no fault of his own) to let him put himself in that position.

I've worked in 2 high schools in the past 10 years, and a son attended another where I frequently volunteered. In my experience the majority of students with learning disabilities are identified, and accomodated.....further they are in the minority. Also in my experience......a lot more students don't do the work for reasons other than a disability......1 in 20 with ADD.....well I'm estimating 5 in 20 with IDLW (I don't like work).

Think whenever possible cop outs should be avoided.....and Niner's Parent....you have to know that your son will be better off with the better grades.....don't you? The kid with the 1.7 lucked out, but probably not in the long run....if he doesn't improve academically.

Everything is situational, but when possible (medically, etc.), kids need to concentrate on school work more than the baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by Niner's Parent:
Just to clarify things. The dad didn't blab it all over town. Just to people in general, other parents whos kids play on the team. The kid even posted his GPA on the Pefect Game Website last year. I have seen this young man at JUCCO visits when my son has been there. We figured hey he is going JUCCO due to his grades. The next thing we see on the news he signed with an D1 school. The principal at the high school told me personallythis past summer, the kid would never get into a D1 school with the grades he was making. We were saying the kid was an awesome player and his grades came up.

My kid who is top half of his class 24 ACT and busted his can this last semester to get a 3.5 is saying what the heck!?

I know a story like this just shocks us all, because we (I do often) also preach how important it is to get good grades.
But we just don't know the whole situation and should not be quick to jump to conclusions.
I personally don't know why a principal is discussing another students grades with another parent.
Maybe that coach saw something in that player that we can't understand. Maybe he offered him a chance that to some would seem ridiulous. It would be interesting to find out if the player gets accepted. Either way, it should not discourage anyone from not doing their best in school.
I know of a player who had terrific grades, great SAT. No one came knocking on his door, until spring, with inside help. He just wasn't that good on the field as he was when he was younger. Sounds crazy, but it happens.

I say the principal should be fired for running off at the mouth like that. If you don't, can't ot won't help the kid, at least shut up and don't hurt him.

Just because you have good grades doesn't mean you deserve a scholarship, especially an athletic scholarship. Athletic scholarships go to the players that will help you win, period.

I know of plenty of good high school students who failed in college because they couldn't handle the first academic adversity they'd ever faced. Frankly, give me a kid who fought for a 2.75 in high school and will fight for a 2.2 in college anytime. Especially if he can hit with two strikes.

Do good grades help? Of course. I don't want to waste my scholarship money on a kid whose chances of graduating aren't terribly good. But it doesn't do me any good to give the money to a kid who isn't going to help my club that much, either. Let the financial aid office take care of those kids.

I want the kids who will help me win ... and kids who will graduate. And, in most cases, in that order.

OldVaman.....I thought it was a given in this discussion that the kids could play ball?

Grades have NOTHING to do with baseball talent.

Most coaches would be thrilled to get a talented ball player with really good grades. Icing on the cake.

But coaches need to win. And first and foremost they are looking for talent to help them win.

It sounds like this kid is 1)talented and 2)either very lucky, or did some serious research if he found a place to play despite such poor grades.

In no way does that take away from what you have been teaching your children about the importance of hard work in the classroom.

There will always be exceptions to any rule. I for one wouldn't want my future to depend on my being one of those exceptions. Much better to be in a position to choose.

topdogfan,

I did not mean my post as a criticism of anyone's posts in this thread, but just to show another side of the story based on what I've seen through the years. Too many times I've seen adults (and I'm referring to local teachers and parents, not internet forum members) jump to negative conclusions, usually assuming laziness, because the young man I was talking about chose NOT to make his condition public knowledge, NOT to inform teachers at his school, and NOT to ask for any special accommodations. As arizonared mentioned, "Think whenever possible cop outs should be avoided.....". This young man chose not to ask for special rules about test taking or other measurements because he felt that real life wouldn't offer any special rules for him later in life.

I guess my purpose in posting above was to suggest that we try not to pass judgment about any of these kids. I think it's great that we send the message to players and parents on this forum about how many college opportunities can be opened up by maintaining good grades in high school. In my own family, my 04 had narrower choices than does my 06, who has a good chance of being accepted at any college he desires, and is likely to receive some academic money. It sure makes it easier on his parents this time around!

But at the same time I can put myself in the shoes of the parent of that senior who was mentioned at the start of this thread. Maybe that boy and his parents have struggled through his entire school career, trying to find ways to help him succeed, but always on that borderline of failing, whether through some disability or a simple lack of mental ability. Yes, I realize it could be through a lack of effort, but I personally do not believe that that is most often the primary reason for low grades. There are kids who will never become starters on the varsity baseball team no matter how hard they try, and kids who will not earn an A average no matter how hard they work. The boy may have had many frustrations and disappointments in his school years, but finally someone gives him the opportunity to sign a DI NLI. Maybe he and his parents realize that his chances of attending that school are slim and realize he may end up at another school, but are just thankful for this moment of feeling good about something connected with school, and something he has accomplished.

I do not mean AT ALL by this explanation to criticize the opinions and anecdotes offered above, but just to add another view to this discussion. I wanted to share my thoughts in case it would help anyone to see the other side of the story in similar situations among their own acquaintances.

arizonared

I think that's fair. But what I was reacting to was what I detected as frustration that someone with lesser academic credentials got an athletic offer over someone with higher academic credentials.

Grades are great. Period. I wish some of my kids had them, and I'm happy that some of my kids do.

But talent decides who gets athletic scholarships.

Grades can help you get an athletic scholarship, especially if you're talking about a would-be tie-breaker.

But this is one time where the better talent wins, almost always.

OldVaman....agree....better talent wins the athletic contest....

If you look around every year, there are some guys that sign D1 and then SWEAT making it into the college of their choice that made the offer. I know several who had to attend summer school between HS and College in order to be academically eligible the first year.

I hear of 1-2 each year that get signed by big "State U" and can't cut it academically and end up attending "Not the State College" ... It generally acts as a wake-up call and they have fine college athletic careers.

You don't BLAME "State U" for chasing the best talent available. You don't BLAME the kid if he has to take summer classes to be academically eligible and you don't BLAME "State U" if he can't get accepted. It happens and with the new Academic Guidelines, the admission restrictions are going to get tougher.

I expect the HC of the college program to inform the student before he receives his NLI in the mail of this simple fact. "You've made it onto our campus athletically, but NOT academically yet and you have some hard work ahead of you." It puts the ball back in the students court. He has all fall and spring to bring up grades, bring up his SAT/ACT and demonstrate that he can be a successful student.

If he's not willing to work hard enough to do that, then the NLI ended up being worth EXACTLY the paper it was written on, but nothing more.

Let's be honest. These days, one can "achieve" a D-average in HS just by consistently showing up. Grades may have "nothing to do with baseball talent", but the question here seems to be the reverse - how much should baseball talent weigh in the (D1)college admission/scholarship process. I, for one, believe in the concept of student-athlete. Isn't that at least the spirit of the NCAA regs? If you're not serious about the student part, go JUCO or some other route. I get the part about possible extenuating circumstances, but does anyone really believe a HS 1.7 is going to succeed at the college level with the added responsibility of producing on the field? More likely, they'll take up space and money for a year or two (straining the bounds of eligibility) before signing a deal and moving on. There are plenty of superior athletes amongst the good students who are more deserving of a D1 spot. I share Niner's frustration.

All things aside I still ask the question--what D-1 school accepts baseball player with a 1.7 GPA regardless of his SAT/ACT scores ?

I know that schools will accept players with not so great GPAs if a coach wants them - my own son is proof, although he was certainly better than 1.7, had good ACT scores, and was clearinghouse eligible. The kid that is being discussed is going to have a hard time getting numbers where they need to be for Clearinghouse. However, it's obvious that the coach was willing to gamble on the kid, so there may be things here we don't know. However, like topdogfan said, I have a hard time understanding a choice of a big school when a kid hasn't been a good HS student. Many kids will do better in college than they did in HS - but some do just the opposite.

TR Hit if you want to email me I will tell you the school. I did go look at PG websit, lol his GPA is down but ACT is up at 21. They have to be going off the ACT score. I could not imagine he would be in the top half of his class.

I also know a kid, good friend of my son that is attending a D1 school scored 18 on the ACT and had poor grades through high school.

Also you must realize in the State of Iowa you only have to pass four classes to play sports. You may take 8 , but 4 must be passed. Legislature is looking to change that and make student/athletes pass all classes.

I think we have to realize all states are different. However I still think we are setting this kid up to fail at a large university.

My guess is his core classes had a decent gpa.

Niner -Again, if he brought the ACT score up, he may be bringing the GPA up as well and may be planning on attempting to bring that ACT score up further. Plus, if I remember correctly, for clearinghouse they take the highest scores of each area from each ACT test. For example, the highest english, the higest math, etc. So, it's possible that the total points could be respectable. GPA is used by many as a reflection of a kid's academic effort, not necessarily their IQ. Again, the coach may know something we don't know.

quote:

by oldvaman: Just because you have good grades doesn't mean you deserve a scholarship, especially an athletic scholarship.

seemingly a minority view here

this is just the next level of continuing frustration for some -

it's not necessary to be a "scholar" to get thru college anyway

and anyone admitted CAN get thru if he's willing to work at it -
in reality easier for a ballplayer because of his peer group & support

the academic support programs "force" time management, have mandantory study tables with tutors available as needed - ya stay in that environment until you can prove you don't need it - 4+ yrs if need be -


Again, my props to the player - no frustation here

he's got an opportunity to get an education, play some ball, and leave behind the town that "knows what's best for him" & the principal who thinks he's a "no-account"

good luck - it's a win - win deal


.

This kid must be a special player, at least in the eyes of the coaches at this school.
For starters, they are banking on the kid raising the GPA to 2.0 and then putting up an ACT of 22 or higher just to be eligible. Even then, as TR says, what schools would admit the kid? I would never work with a kid like this unless he agreed to go JUCO first.
Make no mistake about it, grades are secondary to athletic talent at the D1 level. However, a player like this has to be considered a serious academic risk, and the punitive measures under the new academic reform movement make this scenario potentially very costly.
There are too many kids out there who can play and that take care of business in the classroom for coaches to take unnecessary risks on substandard students. It happens, but it happens far less in this day and age than some would have you think.
I suspect that the coach is rolling the dice here. He signs the kid to a LOI, but realizes that he may never reach eligibility or satisfy the admissions people. If he does and, coach has to really baby sit this player academically. He may be Babe Ruth on the field, but he's worthless and potentially costly if he's academically ineligible.

Posted by others:
"This kid sounds like a JUCO candidate."
"I expect JUCO will be his only option...heck, they'll take just about anybody."
"...smart enough to realize how hard he would have to work right out of HS so chose the JUCO route."
"We figured hey he is going JUCCO due to his grades."
"If you're not serious about the student part, go JUCO or some other route."

The myth of 'JUCO=easy' lives on. Every year alot of decent baseball players are shocked to find themselves ineligible to play JUCO ball. I'm sure their parents are no less shocked.

JUCOs are colleges, at least around here. Marginal students will probably find the academics and work load difficult.

"win-win" - you can't be serious. Support groups are one thing, but let's face it, it's going to take a VILLAGE to ensure this guy is eligible. I don't want to bet on someone's failure, and I like to give young folks the benefit of the doubt, but let's not pretend here. Clearly the D1 school here is just a backdrop for him to potentially launch a baseball career - and we know what the odds are for that. Does that make the kid a winner - not likely. Does the coach win? Wait til his NCAA APR stats catch up with him. What about deserving athletes who have already demonstrated classroom performance? Do they win? Maybe you know something the principal doesn't. Fine - give the kid the benefit of the doubt, but let's not pretend this approach represents the right thing to do. This certainly isn't a school I'd send my kid to.

I just want to clarify that I in no way think that JUCO's are easy, I honestly don't know what the academics are like. But just from the volumes I've read and researched it seems that the admissions requirements are a lot less strict. to quote from "The High School Players Guide to College Baseball": JC's generally offer an open door admissions policy so you don't have to worry about getting in. You must, however, meet one of the following requirements: 1. Graduate from high school 2. Receive a high school equivalency diploma 3. Pass a national test such as a GED." I meant no offense to the gentleman from Western NY. If my son ends up at a JUCO and plays ball, we'll be tickled pink. They get noticed, no doubt, tons of kids drafted every year.

quote:

Originally posted by PioneerDad:
Posted by others:

"...smart enough to realize how hard he would have to work right out of HS so chose the JUCO route."

The myth of 'JUCO=easy' lives on. Every year alot of decent baseball players are shocked to find themselves ineligible to play JUCO ball. I'm sure their parents are no less shocked.

JUCOs are colleges, at least around here. Marginal students will probably find the academics and work load difficult.

The one quoted above is mine, so I will explain myself. My son looked at a couple D1's where their freshman comp classes had a couple hundred students. My son's comp class (and all his others at his juco) have less than 30. At U. of KY. the students in those classes are sitting in the halls watching lectures on monitors, taught by graduate assistants because there is not enough seating in the classroom. That is not in the least conducive to the success of a marginal student.

His coach requires study tables almost every night and they are on top of what is going on in the classroom. I know those supports are available at all schools, but the class size alone was a BIG turnoff to him.

ok.

Pioneer Dad - My reference to JUCO (which is what my own son is a freshman at) is that they can simply offer more assistance for the player who hasn't been a strong student - whether that be by choice, disability, etc. They have smaller classes and typically are more oriented towards helping a player succeed in the classroom. My son's JUCO has mandatory study tables four nights/week! I think it's a wonderful transition for many students - not knocking them at all. There are also many excellent students at JUCO (that is a big misconception that all the students are challenged academically) - players that aren't sure of what school they want to attend, players looking for more financial support than NCAA, players looking to be drafted before three years are up. It is not a route for a kid who just can't perform in the classroom or has no desire to be successful in that area. They'll struggle there as well.

quote:

Originally posted by PopTime:
ok.

Sorry PopTime, I hit post too soon. Went back and finished my thoughts

TDF
And your points are good ones!

tdf - Your son's school sounds like my son's school!

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom:
tdf - Your son's school sounds like my son's school!

Small world, huh?

quote:

by va_mom: Fine - give the kid the benefit of the doubt, but let's not pretend this approach represents the right thing to do. This certainly isn't a school I'd send my kid to.

how can you be certain that it's NOT your son's school?


this topic parallels many others

"my LL guy worked his butt off and the lazy 1B got all the awards 'cause he hit a few HR's"

"my HS guy never missed a weight room session, but the guy that seldom showed up was All-State"

"my guy with pin-point control (AKA 72 mph) is overlooked", & the guy who's throwing 88 mph is getting all the looks"

now- "the guy who can MASH is getting college opportunities, over the guy that can study"

what's next??

"my guy (Ortiz) is overlooked, just because the other guy
(ARod) is an ANOINTED YANKEE"






.

Don't let's get started on that!!!!!

Bee, I know because we did our homework - checked APRs, grad rates, admission stats, GPAs, and addressed it specifically with the coach. My point is, there are other more suitable baseball opportunities for the case in question rather than taking up spots in a D1 college that better serve quality athletes who really want to learn. In regard to your parallels, my guy wasn't overlooked, but I've seen some smart, talented kids (not charity cases either) take a back seat to academic risk cases who flame out within a year - a total waste of precious scholarship money.

quote:

by va_mom: My point is, there are other more suitable baseball opportunities for the case in question rather than taking up spots in a D1 college that better serve quality athletes who really want to learn.

pehaps YOU could form a committee to review these type of cases

OOPS, that committee already exists

it's called ADMISSIONS







.

I already serve on a scholarship committee, and the admissions folks at the schools we chose don't need any help as they do a fine job. Speaking of taking up space, what's with your posts?

What bothers me and you hear it often is the jock who is doing "F" work and getting a "D" because of Athletic pressure. If this was the case for this 1.7 kid, what is his real gpa. It borders on being impossible to be able to have a 1.7 gpa and still have passed all the core reqirements to get into a D1 school.

I'm with TR and his question

quote:

All things aside I still ask the question--what D-1 school accepts baseball player with a 1.7 GPA regardless of his SAT/ACT scores ?

VASportsmom

"This isn't a school I would send my son to"

You just proved my point about options. That is precisely the advantage the kid who has good grades has over kids like this one. They can pick and choose which school they want to go to.

A kid like this is limited to a handful of schools willing to take on a huge risk. He has limited himself. It takes tremendous talent to find yourself in a situation like this. Your player of "average D1 talent" is not going to be so lucky.

So don't despair. Hitting the books and getting good grades DOES help you. It just doesn't put you ahead of the player with more talent.

quote:

by va_mom: Speaking of taking up space, what's with your posts?

known as page layout & white space

in part a carry over from english lit - stretching a 2 page essay into 5, easier on the eyes, etc


thanks

for

noticing


.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by va_mom: Speaking of taking up space, what's with your posts?

known as page layout & white space

in part a carry over from english lit - stretching a 2 page essay into 5, easier on the eyes, etc

I apologize for not reading through all 4 pages to get here, but 1.7- what school is it. I find it impossible to believe. With 1.7 in HS, how will this young man stay eligible to play in college? How was he eligible to play in HS? What coach would take a chance with this?

At most, if true, it is must be some weird aberration. When my son went through the process, we went to many events, talked to dozens of schools, never heard of anyone interested in a 1.7, unless that was their time to first base

A couple pages back, the question was asked about how often the core GPA is higher than overall. My guess is that for average or worse students, that it happens quite frequently. Since the core GPA for Clearinghouse purposes is figure on a formula of what classes are required [3 English, 2 Math, 2 Science, one more from that group, 2 Social Studies, 2 more from THAT group, 2 foreign language, etc] it is possible to have a couple of Ds in math, english, science, and they are not factored in to your core GPA. This will become less prevalent starting in 07, when 16 core classes are required, vice 14 now.

For whatever reason the kid has a 1.7 [ADD, lazy, just plain stupid, or whatever] it hardly is a ringing endorsement for the school he plans to attend, nor is it a portent of a four year career there, the specter of flunking out, notwithstanding. Hopefully for the kid, he has the ability/makes the choice/gets the help required, in order to make the most ACADEMICALLY at his new D1, lest he fall by the wayside.

Sounds to me like this boy is being set up for failure or he's just going there until he thinks he'll be drafted. Personally, I wouldn't want to do that to my son. He was diagnosed with ADHD by the school in elementary school. He always had to work harder to get B's and C's. In HS, didn't want to be "different" so refused to take advantage of many of the opportunities he could have taken advantage of, like untimed tests, etc. If it was a subject he liked, he did well, and if he didn't like it, well, he just got by. I thought he should take the juco route since they usually do have smaller classes and extra help. He didn't want to go that route and instead chose a smaller D-III. I have to admit, I had a thought or two that he'd decide college wasn't for him once he got there but he's really surprised us. His grades are better and he actually will meet w/professors on his own if he needs extra help. Maybe this young man will mature and take advantage of the extras his school may have too. But you're right about a D-I in many cases having oversized classes and you can become just a number whereas in a smaller setting the professors actually know you by name. If I were his parents, I'd really have to think about setting my son up for failure.

PAbbMom,
You bring up a good point. Might be if he is expected to be drafted he signed for leverage in the draft, with no intentions of attending. Coaches do offer opportunities to some who they know will never set foot ona college campus.

I happen to know of quite a few highly ranked who were signed at certain schools (because they probably weren't going anyway) and drafted. I happend to notice their GPA/SAT on PG profile and although they qualified under the clearinghouse,couldn't for the life of me figure out how they would get through school.

This thread is one of the most intriguing threads I have seen. I just looked at it for the first time......and after reading all of the posts, I realize that we have an unbelievable number of 'glass half empty people'.

quote:

Originally posted by grateful:
This thread is one of the most intriguing threads I have seen. I just looked at it for the first time......and after reading all of the posts, I realize that we have an unbelievable number of 'glass half empty people'.

Say what?

Yeah Grateful.....please explain.....is the kid with the 1.7 in the top half or bottom half?

....if 1.6 is still the minimum at the end of the freshman year, he's in the eligible half.

Sorry ladies, but I didn't mean to be vague.....but I had to go into the living room to watch some more of the CMA Award Show.....awesome......and just now Brooks and Dunn did their new song "Believe".......it was fabulous........that kid who has a 1.7 has a coach who may believe in that kid more than anybody else ever has.......don't know........but isn't it great when somebody believes in you? or in anyone?

I have three older kids, and a young'un.

The oldest had trouble in school, she has a learning disability and has a slight case of CP. She recieved TOO much help in High School, and when it came time to go to college, she was lost, she then went to a JUCO, but by that time had lost interest and dropped out, got married and moved on with her life.

My middle daughter is 19, struggled to get A's and B's in High School, with the occasional C in math. She worked her tail off, and is now a very successful college student.

My son is 17, a Jr. in HS, in the top 10 percent of his class, never brings a book home, never studies. I worry about him in college because it's been too easy for him.

My point? I think you have to learn how to study to succeed in college, no matter how smart you are.

I had a 31 ACT, top 3 in my class, and failed out of Northern Illinois because I found out the Sigma Alpha Mu's had parties every other night.

quote:

but isn't it great when somebody believes in you?

You know what guys.....someone posted earlier and said that nowadays....if you just show up for class....you get a passing grade....and that is the truth......

So....if we have a player with a 1.7....don't think he is putting out any effort....but then again we can all second guess forever...we really don't know the particulars.....

But....unless there are some extremely extenduating circumstances.....why does a kid with a 1.7 deserve any more special consideration then a kid working hard at his studies......??????

Yeah.....because he can throw hard and run well......

I'd rather believe in the potential of a kid who will work for both......academics and baseball......

It is easier to believe in a kid who has proven that he will work hard and get good grades, but as many have said, we aren't privy to all the circumstances with this particular kid.

I can say it is a fact that many students who were high achievers in high school have failed (miserably) academically in college......and many high risk kids have succeeded tremendously in college.

Most of you are correct in saying that the coach offering the scholarship is taking a big risk; that is correct. Stealing home is risky, but when done successfully is unbelievably satisfying.

It is the coach's and the institution's risk, not our risk. It is also a risk taking a hard throwing pitcher who has control problems, but coaches do it. Who are any of us to say that the coach is wrong for taking the kid.

Many of us who contribute to these forums have written many times about the importance of getting good grades in high school, and it is important, but it isn't the only thing.

I would have loved to have a local kid a few years ago who had a 1.7 GPA.....but my school wouldn't admit him, though I tried to lobby for him. He has a learning disability. After being at over 100 Division I games in the last couple years, I am convinced this kid could be succeeding at a Division I school on the baseball field, and with help in the classroom. He decided not to go to school at all. Nobody ever believed in him as a student. When he didn't get into my school, he decided he didn't want to be in that uncomfortable environment anymore, so now he is mowing lawns, landscaping, working hard and doing it well. I know him very well, and his family, as he had been a teammate of my son's for several years. He would have gone to school if we just would have given him the opportunity. I was willing to take that risk.

That doesn't mean that other good, hard working students were not being given consideration by this coach.....it really has nothing to do with any other kid. There are high achieving kids who have poor attitudes and are distractions on teams.....or their parents cause problems, and coaches take risks on them.

Which would you prefer, a good, unselfish kid with bad grades, or a self-centered high achieving cancer of a kid on your team? In a heartbeat, I pick kid #1.

I think maybe coaches will be less willing to take flyers on kids with questionable grades in the future. What I understand is that the NCAA will be "punishing" schools which don't graduate a certain percentage of players by lowering the amount of scholarships that they can give, as if it's not already ridiculously low. This is something I seem to remember hearing at a recruiting seminar a while back. There was a big stink being raised by schools who typically have a lot of kids drafted after their junior years, so I really don't know where it stands at this point.

Grateful, You do bring up some very good points. What you said was actually echoed by a coach that recruited my own son. We were concerned that the school might be too "academic" for him although he was admitted to the school. The coach expressed exactly what you said - almost using those exact words as a matter of fact. To him, a high GPA or ACT wasn't what made a good student or baseball player. He felt my son was a "winner". It is a good thing to have someone feel that way about you. As I said earlier, it is possible that this coach knows something we don't or as you said has a reason to believe in the kid.

The NCAA,Clearing House and the schools set standards for a reason. The rules are there to ensure that a student has a reasonable chance to graduate. The standards are relatively low. To these people the academics are the most important goal of a student not the sport.
I have a problem with a student who does poorly at school up to his serior year in HS if it is not due to a dissability. He did not find out yesterday that he needed good grades. Why should he be allowed to get into a school if he made no effort during HS. Where were his parents?
This student has other avenues that may be a better fit and allow him to show he can do better. He created the situation and has to fix it.
The NCAA has had a long history of trying to clean up the over zealous coaches and cheating that used to go on. What is wrong with having to achieve a goal which requires good grades and athletic skills. I know lots of great ball players who know they are not NCAA players and who don't like academics. One wants to be a carpenter. He is attending a JUCO and loves it.

quote:

Originally posted by PopTime:
I think maybe coaches will be less willing to take flyers on kids with questionable grades in the future. What I understand is that the NCAA will be "punishing" schools which don't graduate a certain percentage of players by lowering the amount of scholarships that they can give, as if it's not already ridiculously low. This is something I seem to remember hearing at a recruiting seminar a while back. There was a big stink being raised by schools who typically have a lot of kids drafted after their junior years, so I really don't know where it stands at this point.

There will be exceptions for baseball, because of the draft.

I understand Grateful's post now. As I said before, we don't know the circumstances, we don't know what teh coach was thinking. We only assume, because we tell our kids it's important to do well in school. Well, regardless, baseball or not, that is something your kids should know and do automatically, it does give more opportunities.

Wanting to know which school and coach so you can steer clear is really silly to me, considering we are just going on a parents post.
I'd be more interested in who the principlal is (which school), discussing other students academic abilities with parents. Now that's WRONG.
JMO

****lehead doll

Wow, you're tough

I have a problem with a student who does poorly at school up to his serior year in HS if it is not due to a dissability. He did not find out yesterday that he needed good grades. Why should he be allowed to get into a school if he made no effort during HS. Where were his parents? This student has other avenues that may be a better fit and allow him to show he can do better. He created the situation and has to fix it.

Parents divorced, on drugs, gamblers, the kid amtures late, to poor and kid has to work, Parents sick...could be a million reasons a kid does poorly and then picks it up.

I could go on and on...my apologies but I just have a real problem with people that will generalize about other peoples circumstances.
Is there anyone else that thinks it's a done deal for every 14 or 15 year old kid in America???

I'm glad to hear a success story even if it's one in a million. You know why! Because if a kid doesn't belong in school it'll tell itself. But if a kid never gets a chance (as you would have it) then we'll never know.

I have been told I am tough.
I believe that I fall into one of those catagories of reasons for my son not to do well.
Almost totally blind in 1999. Have regained a portion through laser surgery and was unable to help my son much but supported him in everything he did the best I could. Had many a chat about why he couldn't do this or that.
I know people worse off and their kids do well and were never turned away from a team. I always helped kids who s parents wouldn't support their kids. There is always help.
I asked where his parents were assuming there might be an issue and atleast a lck of direction.
There are other options as others have mentioned. JUCO and taking the year over. I believe thyat in the US there are so many opportunities for this young man to get his grades up. He dosen't even need to be a genious.
If you want something bad enough you have to work to get there.

quote:

by mrmom: if a kid doesn't belong in school it'll tell itself

alot of wisdom in that



.

quote:

Originally posted by Niner's Parent:
We press our kids to get good grades and this happens. Would make me a doubter if a were a young one again.

Seems like a lot of dust up over 1 kid. How many examples are out there of kids that got good grades and did get the opportunity...possibly over a poor student, THERE ARE MANY. How many schools walked away from this young man....plenty.

What does it matter if this kid gets a chance, good for him.

It's none of our business how the school makes the decision on how they selected their players. Baseball and life are never fair, some people get chances that others don't, some work harder others don't.

If the school wants to take a chance on him (if he actually gets in, and shows up on campus next year), it is their prerogative...after all it is a business.

This is getting TWISTED.

Maybe he shouldn't have to meet the minimum standards set by the NCAA and the schools. Why not stack him up in the corner no tests, assignments and give him a degree because he showed up to basket weaving 101.
Hi s dad by the way was well/sober enough to tell everyone how lousy he did. Must have been with his dying breaths.
I got no problem giving a guy a break as long as he works to get it. The guy who wrote the original thread was obviously surprised at the possibility of this guy getting an offer with horrific marks. I am making the assumption that he knows more than we do about the kids circomstances.
I am shocked at how many posters are willing to bend the standards which are already minimal.
The concept in life is "you work hard for what you want and you should succede.
Can't agree more "Life is unfair"

BobbleheadDoll

You make the assumption that someone is bending rules for this kid due to his grades. Well guess what, if he doesn't meet NCAA guidelines he won't be eligible. Period.

Someone is giving him a chance, based on the possibility that by the end of the year he will meet those guidelines.

His LOI (if he has signed one - for all we know it's nothing more than a verbal at this time) will be null and void if he does not meet the minimum requirements.

Kids do get rewards for good grades, high ACT or SAT scores etc. - it's called ACADEMIC scholarship money.

Baseball scholarship money is for athletic excellence. The two are distinct and seperate, and rightly so.

quote:

by bbblhddoll: This is getting TWISTED . . . . I am shocked at how many posters are willing to bend the standards

??? maybe you'd be kind enough to point ONE out






.

AParent you are absolutly correct. That is the assumption I make and I also made the other assumption that he offer was contingent. As I don't know anything about the guy Ihad to make those assumptions.
I guess I am shocked more by the responses that seem to accept poor academics. In our efforts to get an offer the schools were asking for strong academics as a precurser to the likelyhood of my son surviving the rigorous routine of practice,travel and study.
Some of the guys who had good GPA and SAT did not do well at mid term.
The coaches told me they did not want to take a student who was not likely going to survive leaving him short a player.

it may be this topic is merely "titled wrong"

quote:

by niner's parent: My kid who is top half of his class 24 ACT and busted his can this last semester to get a 3.5 is saying what the heck!?

it appears from that info provided that
HE COULD INDEED GET INTO MOST ANY U.S. University

but - - - to play ball???

well, that would (rightly) be up to coaches, wouldn't it???


.

Bee I said bend and not break.

bobblehead,
I understand there are several pages here so I'll wait patiently for you to locate examples of those who are advocating "bending the standards", as you had suggested

. . . . . . .

. . . . .

. . .



.

I know of circumstances where D1 schools wanted a player (who had a learning disability) who had a 2.7 GPA and a very low SAT. One school was willing to fly him down tutor him for a couple weeks for the SAT and have him retest. All schools assured him if he could be cleared by NCAA he would be accepted in the schools and would recieve help to stay elig to play baseball.
Unfair? ...Yes it is its unfair that he has a learning disablity and as hard as he works he could never go to these schools with out being a gifted baseball player... Just as some gifted students will go to college and never play baseball.

I'm not understanding what the problem is here. ALL schools have admission guidelines as does the NCAA they are MINIMUM requirement guidelines. Either a student qualifies or he doesn't. Each and every coach is (or should be) held accountable fot the academic standing of his players. Some coaches are willing to maybe take a chance on a certain player in hopes there may have been circumstances which led to that student maybe not performing up to his potential academically while in high school. That is up to the coach and the university admissions office. Every coach I've spoken to about my son so far has asked for grades, classes and test scores..it WILL have a bearing as their roster is set for a couple of reasons; they only have so much athletic scholarship money available so if a student can receive academic money(which can never be cut as long as the player maintains the academic standards set by the university) it frees up athletic money for others who may not be as gifted students. Also if a coach is looking at 2-3 players to fill a particular need with very little difference in playing abilities the player with a stronger academic background is going to get the first shot. Coaches cannot afford to lose players to academics, there is too much time and effort put in to setting a roster to have it fall apart due to poor grades. The true blue chipper is always going to have opportunities that many other very good players may not have but once there they will have to meet the same standards as the rest of the student body, if that university is willing to take that chance that is their choice. So, except for those few exceptional players GPA will have a strong bearing on receiving D1 offers.

Just because someone posts something doesn’t make it so. I could say a player signed at the University of Alabama and had a 1.1 GPA and a 10 on his ACT. I think some of the numbers may be a little less than accurate. Besides, we have no idea if the ACT was measured on a Jugs or a Stalker.... and the 1.1 GPA may have been into the wind on a wet field.
Fungo

njbb,

quote:

I know of circumstances where D1 schools wanted a player (who had a learning disability) who had a 2.7 GPA and a very low SAT. One school was willing to fly him down tutor him for a couple weeks for the SAT and have him retest.

That wasn't USC was it? They just got hammered for something very similar. From the USC violations report:

quote:

In summer, 2001 when the former associate athletics director ordered the tutor to provide tutoring services to student-athletes 1 and 2, the tutor, the academic advisor and at least one other academic advisor knew that it was impermissible for the institution to provide tutoring to transfers who were not yet enrolled

I would venture a guess that more mental energy has been expended on this thread than has gone into the 1.7 in question...

I was not aware that it was not allowed
No, the school was not USC, wonder how many schools do this?????

VA_Sportsmom....good one

This whole thread started with a bit of hearsay. Would have been thrown out of court long ago.