Getting Jammed

Number One, He's pretty young so I wouldn't be too concerned. I would check to see if he strides to the ball, thus, making that inside pitch up his alley. Check to also see if he swings while striding . If so try to get him to learn to have his hands back and stride down BEFORE the hands come forward. He'll get better if you work with him on timing. Once he gets to the big field then you really need to work his mechanics. I'd check to see if he's wrapping the bat behind his head as well. These are all things that I see in my teachings.

Coach,

I've filmed him quite a few times and watched his swing. He definitely does stride first before swinging. When his front foot touches his hands are at his right shoulder (he's RH). As far as wrapping, his bat head moves up behind his helmet but I wouldn't call it excessive. He never seems to be really late or really early and hits most balls between the gaps.

The one thing I'm curious about is your question "I would check to see if he strides to the ball, thus, making that inside pitch up his alley." I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Perhaps this is an issue for him but I will need you to clarify your question. Should he stride to the same spot on each pitch or should he stride, say, a little open if the pitch is inside? Is that what you're getting at?

Thanks for your help.

Jon

http://home.fuse.net/kystorm/Game%201%20pics/Jake1.JPG

See if you can view this picture of him.

Jon

Check to see if his rear elbow is up high in the launch position. This can cause a long looping swing and make it easier for some to extend too early.

Extending too early can also cause handle hits.

Work on fixing it now. It just gets harder when they get older.

Thanks for the reply. He does not start with a high back elbow though I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. He does a good job, even if he's fooled, of keeping his hands back. In this next picture it's a change up and though his back foot has come up, his hands are back. The pitcher left it up and he hit this pitch into left center for a double.

http://home.fuse.net/kystorm/Game%201%20pics/Jake2.JPG


Jon

Since his back foot is up on the change up, it may be a tip that his weight is on his front foot when he makes contact.

I'm sure it allows him to see the ball better, so the high pitch is hittable.

Have him keep his weight on his back foot when he swings and let the weight shift with the swing bringing it forward.

Willj, the advice you are getting so far, is nowhere close to what you need to know......There are no quick fixes, your son needs to learn efficient swing technique......I would suggest you contact Steve at this e-mail address.....setpro25@yahoo.com...

He can get you started on the right track.....

Yes, I'm starting to realize that.

will

The best advice you you got was above- he is young don't get too concerned at this point--

I see it this way--if he is hitting for average and with power don't try to change what isnt broken--as he matures mentally and physically he will adapt to things that he may not now--sometimes we try to get too "smart" and too "technical"

After all he is just 12 years old

Well I really don't want to overwhelm him with technical stuff, especially since he hits the ball pretty well. He has asked me how to handle the inside fastball and I don't have an answer except to open up on it which I'm not sure if the best approach. Should he open up when he strides, or should he just start open? Or should he do neither of these?

Jon

will,

You cant tell much from a still picture - but alot of younger kids (and some older ones too LOL) - particularly with aluminum bats - do not load.


They keep their hands/arms/shoulders stationary and then they just drop or throw the bat on the ball - and if they have any strength - it works with middle and away pitches.

That is what aluminum does.

It doesnt work with a little heat inside.

Does he load as the pitch approaches?

I'm not a technical expert on swing mechanics but I'll describe what I see him do...as he takes a small stride (his front foot moves forward very little), he keeps his weight centered and turns his upper half back toward the catcher a bit (I call it an inward turn). As you can see in the first picture I posted, he has put his front foot down on the ball of the foot but the heel hasn't hit yet. His upper half is still slightly closed.

Would you call that loading? Or is it just window dressing? I can't feel what he's feeling, I can only observe what he's doing.

Will,

Like I said - you cant tell much from a still picture - but in the first photo - if he did swing at that pitch - I dont believe his hands/arms were in the best hitting position - given where the ball is.

There is one fundamental factor that no one has mentioned yet (those responding may have assumed this was being done}.

Is he making contact with the inside pitch while it is ~12-18" in front of the plate? If he is initiating the swing too late, then he would seem to be getting jammed.

He did not swing at the first pitch. He swung at the second one, which was a change up that fooled him pretty badly.

I'm not sure if he's getting the inside pitch early enough. Most balls he hits are between the gaps. Occasionally he'll turn on one and drive it to straightaway left or down the line. The balls he hits down the LF line do not hook. They are straight down the line.

Not sure if any of the info tells you anything or not.

And I forgot, when he's jammed, he hits those between the 2B and SS, where most of his hits normally go. It's very confusing (at least to me).

willi - all I am saying is to make sure he gets his "hands/arms/shoulders into proper hitting position". He looks like a big strong kid - and at that age - if they have balance - some hand/eye coordination and they get themselves loaded - they will knock the **** out of the ball.

Good luck.

He's actually very athletic, even with the size. His hand-eye coordination and concentration are excellent (you can see him still focused on the ball in the first pic) and he can pick up the spin on the ball very early. I test him by throwing curves and making him call the pitch out as soon as he can.

There are a few kids on his team bigger than he is but he hits it harder than all of them. He's never had a formal hitting lesson. We've just focused on 2 or 3 key things for him to work on and it's worked great to this point. But for him to play high school baseball like he wants to he will have to continue to work to improve. The great thing is he is receptive and wants to learn. But I only know so much and so I think perhaps it's time for me to take him to someone who knows the swing better than me.

Thanks for your help.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by willj1967:
The great thing is he is receptive and wants to learn. But I only know so much and so I think perhaps it's time for me to take him to someone who knows the swing better than me.

Thanks for your help.

Jon

Jon,

The fact that he is receptive and wants to learn is great.

And the fact that you realize that it may be time to get someone to help him is even better.

Just make sure you do your research on the folks you choose to help him.

Willj, your son needs to learn technique such as rotating into foot plant.....Weight shift momentum is something he needs to learn and understand, also....

He is probably keeping his weight on his backside....And, counter-rotating his shoulders is an improper loading process.....

Itsinthegame has given you good advice about learning how to load properly and about being careful who you choose to teach your son.........Hitting is about loading and unloading in an efficient manner....It's about moving the body properly....

I really would suggest you get in touch with Steve.....He can help you....

The players I teach for the first time are filmed from the side so I can see what he/she does with his hands, head, stride, etc.... From there you can show the player on the screen what he/she is doing and then teach the proper corrections. I start with the basics of bat selection, grip, etc...most younger players I teach 13/14 do not understand the back side explosion and usually there back foot never turns but leading up to that there are several factors that need to be taught. Just be patient.

When I asked if he was striding to the ball I meant does he stride toward the pitcher or toward the plate or where the ball is pitched.

I like John Malee's approach to the young hitters to have them stride with there foot down, not up on the balls of there feet . Its been successful for my players.

Wow, you just got a lot of advice...a lot, well, interesting advise. If he is getting jammed on the inside pitch there is only two things he needs to focus on. Hit the inside pitch well out in front of the plate and keep your hands inside the ball. That's it.

quote:

Originally posted by LouisianaTexan:
Wow, you just got a lot of advice...a lot, well, interesting advise. If he is getting jammed on the inside pitch there is only two things he needs to focus on. Hit the inside pitch well out in front of the plate and keep your hands inside the ball. That's it.

I agree with this. Try to hit the inside pitch out in front and keep hands inside the ball.

One thing I don't think has been mentioned but I feel is very important, is pitch anticipation. Have him look for and anticipate that pitch. If he doesn't get it, don't swing (unless he has 2 strikes). If he is going up to the plate with the plan of hitting any strike it is just to hard to cover both the inside and outside of the plate.

Comments about loading and unloading are right on. Even when learning to unload, a young hitter may get his hands too far away from his body. Hands inside the ball at contact are indeed important, but check his hand position when he begins unloading. They should be near his shoulders and at max 3-5 inches away from his body. They should stay close to the body all thru the swing and then inside the baseball. Good luck and be patient.

Coachblu, backside explosion?......I couldn't resist telling you this is really bad advice for any hitter.....

And, I can tell you don't understand the purpose of the stride....

Have you ever heard of rotation into footplant?......Weight shift momentum?....

For a 12 year old, I don't think we need to make it too compicated. I would just start with the fence drill, it will keep his swing short and keep his hands inside the ball. Only an educated guess without seeing a video though.

Blue Dog,
Explaining hitting is difficult enough having a player in front of you let alone trying to word things properly. Since your the hitting critic here please explain your theories here for me as your student. Thank You. AND YES, I do understand what questions your asking. This is a 12 year old kid were talking about.

Spinedoc, I would suggest to you to scrap the fence drill.....Promotes disconnection....

Coachblu, in all due respect, I have posted many posts explaining just what you are asking.....

Thank You. In all due respect could you tell us your credentials and what coaches you have learned from. Do you have a DVD that might help all us "incorrect" coaches. Unlike the "know it all" posting information I HAVEN'T found the best possible way yet so I'm still searching and when I find something that I've learned that works better I try it myself before teaching it. I have DVD's galore, been to pro camps, college camps etc and you know, there not showing me what I'm still searching for. I'm considering the Peavy and Englishbey
DVD's now. They seem to do some different things in teaching the hitting answers I'm looking for.

I'm still SEARCHING for the ANSWERS to be the BEST I can be. I'm not sitting back feeling I know it all because the percentages are still against us all. The ONE thing we can do for all our hitters is give them CONFIDENCE. I'm batting a thousand there.

quote:

Originally posted by COACHBLU25:
Thank You. In all due respect could you tell us your credentials and what coaches you have learned from. Do you have a DVD that might help all us "incorrect" coaches. Unlike the "know it all" posting information I HAVEN'T found the best possible way yet so I'm still searching and when I find something that I've learned that works better I try it myself before teaching it. I have DVD's galore, been to pro camps, college camps etc and you know, there not showing me what I'm still searching for. I'm considering the Peavy and Englishbey
DVD's now. They seem to do some different things in teaching the hitting answers I'm looking for.

I'm still SEARCHING for the ANSWERS to be the BEST I can be. I'm not sitting back feeling I know it all because the percentages are still against us all. The ONE thing we can do for all our hitters is give them CONFIDENCE. I'm batting a thousand there.

Amen.

There are many ways to teach and many theories out there. Offering suggestions and advice is great, but to degrade others that their theories or practices are wrong is just not right. It is ok to agree to disagree, but don't bash others. It isn't very professional and makes you look bad, whether you have more knowledge or not.

GOOD LUCK on getting The Dog to go in depth on anything besides what is actually printed in his book, or is spoken on his "guys" DVD....

he and another on here used to just blurt out negative comments at everyone, but never explained anything... I offered my phone number to him to discuss the difference in our philosophies - to see if it was same thing just said in different way - never heard my phone ring...

to me, it is teaching what you see at the Major League level... and getting players to do it. I'm not sure who The Dog work with or for, but I guess if he is getting his players to succeed, that is the main key - reaching overall future potential...

his buddy used to tell me that it is about scapular rotation, not shoulder rotation - i didn't have the heart to expalin to him anatomically they are the same thing.. that's why it is referred to as the "shoulder blade."

also his partner-in-crime explained to me their theory was getting started with the pelvis - not using legs at all except for foundation to rotate on.. so I emailed his partner all of the major muscles that "act" on the pelivis - oddly enough they all connect at one end on pelvis and the other end at the knee - now correct me if I am wrong, but don't we refer to that region as the leg? yet the leg is just there for foundation?

He and his buddy told me my theories are completely incorrect... though I have worked with well over 300 players that were either soph, juniors, or seniors and all -that's 100%- have gone to college on scholarship. I have had 13 players drafted in the last two years, one in the 1st round, two in the second round... I have clients that i have worked with since their early high school days - 14 currently in the minors, and three on major league rosters.. i have 54 former clients currently playing in college right now...

The bottom line is get the players to reach their overall potential. Three key parts of hitting; learn how to properly use lower body to support upper body in the swing, properly teach how to keep hands "inside" the path of baseball, and to properly teach how to make the plane of your swing match the path the ball is taking to homeplate for longest amount of time (or greatest distance).

One thing you learn on here is that some people just put others down just to do so and act like God almighty on here... others use this as a forum to learn/teach other who want to question/learn.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Spinedoc, I would suggest to you to scrap the fence drill.....Promotes disconnection....

I guess I don't see to big of a problem with dosconnection with the fence drill if used properly. I use it more as a reminder than anything, and I think it is more a drill to learn a basic swing path, how you incorporate it into your swing is more of a BP thing.

If you are impartial to the fence drill, have you had any experience with the Procut bat weights. I have seen several kids that had long casting swings shorten them up with the handle weights. At the same time, I think donut weights actually encourage casting, simple physics tells you that adding weight to the "hitting end" of the bat will pull your hands away from your center of gravity.

Any opinions??

Spinedoc, learn the bio-mechanics and motor skills involved in a high level swing....It's about knowing how to move the body in an efficient manner to be able the swing the bat effectively with consistency and power.....

Connection and posture play a key role.....Any drill which encourages the hands and arms to be proactive are bad drills.....

Diablo, you used to preach swing on the plane of the pitch...Until, I proved to you that a pitch doesn't have a plane......

Now, you say, swing on the path of the pitch....If the pitch is a 12 to 6 curve ball, do you swing straight up?.....

I really want to hear your answer.....

quote:

Originally posted by willj1967:
Well I really don't want to overwhelm him with technical stuff, especially since he hits the ball pretty well.

Jon

Bluedog
You have to realize the question that is being asked, you are not trying to answer his question. He and his 12 YEAR OLD SON don't want to be overwhelmed by "technical stuff". I was trying to give a few helpful hints that have worked with many players that I know without giving him a Doctoral Thesis on the clinical biomechanics of the baseball swing.

I will admit that I enjoy much of the ****** information, but you will never be able to teach it in that manner over the internet. I have a BS in Human Biology and I am a college Anatomy and Physiology professor who lectures nationally on balance and proprioception, and you are losing me.

I believe that it is the perfect example of paralysis by analysis.

I agree that if someone doesn't understand this stuff, they shouldn't try to teach it......

The trick is to research enough to understand it....

The only way is the Blue Dog way and still nobody knows who he is other to be a shill for a some GURU

He answers questions with questions and degrading remarks--I truly think he is a cyberspace instructor and has never taught kids one on one.

Real Life Experience VS Lab Guys