has high school ball become irrelevant?

Colleges are playing at the same time! Recruiters can't leave their games to go watch high schoolers. That's why summer ball is so helpful to both players & recruiters.
Makes sense now,huh!

Well I would agree.

But doesn't the same hold true for football and basketball? I dont see "travel ball" taking over
these sports.

Im not saying its good or bad, just wondering about the shift.

Hijacked? That's a pretty strong word. Without high school baseball there would be very little travel baseball. In fact, there would be very little baseball of any kind.

Scouts still attend high school games, just like they always did. Not very often did scouts in the 60s or 70s or 80s show up at just any high school tgame looking for players. They went to the games where they were most likely to see a prospect.

That is the same these days, but maybe even more so. Many prospects are identified during the summer and fall and then get scouted heavily during their hs season. Top prospects will often draw large numbers of scouts to their hs games in the spring. This is a benifit to the players on the hs team and the opposing team.

In our state (Iowa) years ago you would hardly ever see a scout at a hs game. Now that players are identified, we see as many as 30-40 scouts at certain games.

The truth is, nothing has changed regarding scouting hs baseball. Certain games might have lots of scouts, most games will have no scouts. It's always been that way. There are not enough scouts to do it any other way.

The money thing always bothers me. We don't know what travel teams charge players. It's different from one team to the next. There are several teams that don't charge players very much and there are some that don't charge players anything. All these teams pay an entry fee, that is what we do.

All that said, if you were a scout or college recruiter, would you go to individual games to hopefully see a prospect or would you rather go to a place where you know you will see 100s of prospects? Once those players are discovered, their hs team will see scouts.

High School baseball has always been the most important stepping stone and it still is. Travel teams and organizations do not hold these events during high school season. High school baseball is very special and we would never do anything to change that. Especially not something like HIJACK it!

Regarding East Cobb... We don't speak on their behalf, but check and see if their best players see any scouts at their high school games in the spring. Kids like Jason Heyward, Kaleb Cowart, Chevez Clarke, etc. have seen tons of scouts at their hs games. Everyone on the field they play on sees tons of scouts that day. Some of that is due to what scouts saw during the summer.

Also, remember this... There are only certain events that draw huge crowds of scouts and recruiters. Those are the events that have proven to have many prospects over the long haul. Most of travel baseball is played without a lot of scouts and recruiters present.

Parents are never "forced" to pay big money! There are other ways for people who can not afford to be on a high priced team. Rather than complain, they should spend their time searching for answers.

Hijacked....probably the wrong choice, bad connotation.

Didnt mean to imply its bad.

Hope that clarifies.

Not complaining, just making some observations, expressing an opinion.

Not sure there is a shift although I agree that having money can help things - if the player has talent.

High School baseball is a spring sport yet the sport itself is a summer sport where the majority of the year's games are played in summer. Now you have travel and tournament teams that facilitate play in the summer. Maybe in years past you saw legion ball and organizations like that as more prevelant. As long as high school ball is played in the spring, I don't see it becoming irrelevant although I see there was a spring/alternative league in California this year. If that becomes a trend, then maybe the high school game will be threatened.

PS - if you are lamenting how many scouts/colleges there are in Georgia at high school games, imagine what it is like in Cleveland Ohio in the spring time. Winds howling off Lake Erie with snow flakes in the air for the first few weeks of the season. I assure you there are no scouts there under those conditions. All that said, I would have loved for my son to play in a league like East Cobb. Hopefully you can take advantage of that

As a select travel team coach I believe that the HS baseball season is critical in the players recruiting process.

HS sports are part of being a HS student--it is a source of pride--when my last guy graduated he was in the centerfold of yearbook in full uniform and bat in hand
HS baseball prepares the players for summer and fall ball--in addition if there were no HS baseball how would we travel team coaches find out about players especially a guy like myself who gets his players from HS coaches recommendations--
HS baseball will always be meaningful---college coaches may not get to many games, they are playing themselves, but what a HS players does in HS sets the tone for the rest of the process


Any step in the process that can help is RELEVANT !!!!!

BaseballDad62,

Somehow the word "hijack" hit me wrong. Doesn't sound like something good! I'm sure you meant no harm.

Personally I am a big believer in high school baseball. It's just not always the best place to scout. We are responsible for selecting the Aflac All American teams each year. We are also responsible for selecting the coaches of those teams. Every year we have selected high school coaches to coach these teams. That is out of respect for the many great high school coaches out there. Kenny May (HSBBW - Coach May) is on our short list and if we are still doing this he will be coaching an Aflac team at some point. Most high school coaches (not all) are in favor of any help their players can get in the off season for HS baseball.

I am a big believer in summer baseball, also, whether it is the things we do or legion ball or other summer baseball. Sometimes that can be the very best place to find players.

East Cobb has been around for quite awhile now. They are recognized as one of, if not the most successful, amateur programs ever. They have earned the attention they get from scouts and recruiters.

One of our associates started the league in California that Cleveland dad refers to. I don't think the purpose is to destroy high school baseball. It has given several players an opportunity, though. In some parts of the country high school baseball is actually being phased out due to limited budgets. That is happening internally more than caused by any outside source.

Ruining high school baseball is not something I want to be known for.

A lot of the players in the spring league that CD and PG referred to were actually redshirts from JCs as well as the kids from HS with situations that didn't work out for whatever reason. It certainly didn't detract from HS ball in any way.

quote:

HS sports are part of being a HS student--it is a source of pride

For many HS players, they are not even trying to play at the next level.For those that want to there are plenty of avenues to have son seen outside of HS baseball if your HS doesn't attract college scouts.Our family loved the HS experience and hope that HS baseball never goes away.

I love HS ball too. It has a special passion, competitiveness, meaning, and sense of team/family rarely found in summer/travel ball.

I am wondering are there showcases, camps, tournaments, summer teams etc in other sports like basketball and football.
My son plays basketball also and there is AAU ball but it doesn't seem to be as costly as baseball has become. Also what happens to those players that do not have money to play in showcases and tourney teams. Kids with talent and no money how do they get seen, besides legion and hs ball? Just wondering?

SportTmom22,

The correct answer is Nike. AAU basketball is an industry sponsored by Nike. There are about 25 National Programs headed by coaches that make their living at it. The payoff is when star 14 year old becomes Labron James in 5 years and Nike make $1BB selling sneakers over 15 years. There is also a whole underground economy in college booster programs. See T. Boone Pickens at OK St.

Very easy to see these youngsters in basketball and football. Not so easy in baseball.

If you are a super stud, IMO you will be found. But there are only a handful of super studs. If you are a pretty good DI, DII player and you live in Georgia, California, Texas, or Florida you will probably be found without a lot of effort. Otherwise, I think you better plan to spend some money. In our state we have a major university 30 minutes away, never once saw the coaches at a game (hs or aummer legion when younger) or really any scouts. The old coach used to go to legion games in the summer and try to find the local talent, current coach does not.
I have wondered why the NCAA ties these kids hands, as well. If you could get in your car and go to a college and throw or hit for a coach it would take 15-30 minutes. You could cover four to six schools in a weekend. That would be nice to kill numerous birds with one stone. Instead you pay for flight, hotel and camp fees and cover only one school.
And add to all that, that if you do sign with a school you are going to be lucky to get 25 to 35% unless you are a really good pitcher.
In the end it is paying off for us. Son is getting in to a great academic school (mid-level DI) that he may not have gotten in to without baseball and he is getting 35%.
Other son is being recruited in more than one sport - and I will say that it is getting out of hand no matter what sport you play. Only difference is in football and basketball you get 100% if you make it to the next level.

quote:

Kids with talent and no money how do they get seen, besides legion and hs ball? Just wondering?

If your son has the ability to play at the next level, and you don't think he is going to get seen at HS or legion, don't forget about the JC route. I know many people want their boys at a 4 year school rt away but there are a lot of spots on many rosters for JC players.My son went to some showcases, got minimal interest.Played a year at a local JC and got tons of interest.

My son played legion ball and it was a so much fun.Very good team.My son wasn't invited to our local CLUB team.They went after the big names in the area.My son received a substantial scolly at a great academic school.There are more ways to get there.

Many of these boys who go to these D1 schools rt out of HS, MANY leave after the first year.Many have no idea what it is like, they are no longer the BIG fish they are now like a minnow in a stream of talent.

I wish parents could just enjoy their boys play, wherever they are.So much focus on who is seeing you. So much stress. I know I stressed to but its not worth it.

Lots of college baseball out there.D1 isn't the only good baseball being played.I have talked to kids at all levels that are very happy.Many being GREAT athletes out of HS.At D3, D2, NAIA.

Just don't forget to enjoy the process, the family time with your son, and not just so focused on the results.

Lots of families don't have money right now.The economy is horrible.Dont stress about it.it will all work itself out.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
As a select travel team coach I believe that the HS baseball season is critical in the players recruiting process.

HS sports are part of being a HS student--it is a source of pride--when my last guy graduated he was in the centerfold of yearbook in full uniform and bat in hand
HS baseball prepares the players for summer and fall ball--in addition if there were no HS baseball how would we travel team coaches find out about players especially a guy like myself who gets his players from HS coaches recommendations--
HS baseball will always be meaningful---college coaches may not get to many games, they are playing themselves, but what a HS players does in HS sets the tone for the rest of the process


Any step in the process that can help is RELEVANT !!!!!

I agree with this ^ last sentence whole heartedly but let me add step forward... many HS programs are not this.

PG thanks and I won't have to be asked twice to accept that invitation I can assure you.

HS baseball is a players opportunity to represent his school and his community. Its an opportunity to play competitive baseball with the guys he has grown up with his whole life. Its his chance to play with those guys he has played with coming up in the game against other kids he has played against coming up in the game. Its a very special time in a baseball players life imo. For some its all the baseball they want. For others its just one part of the process.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:

quote:

Kids with talent and no money how do they get seen, besides legion and hs ball? Just wondering?

If your son has the ability to play at the next level, and you don't think he is going to get seen at HS or legion, don't forget about the JC route. I know many people want their boys at a 4 year school rt away but there are a lot of spots on many rosters for JC players.My son went to some showcases, got minimal interest.Played a year at a local JC and got tons of interest.

My son played legion ball and it was a so much fun.Very good team.My son wasn't invited to our local CLUB team.They went after the big names in the area.My son received a substantial scolly at a great academic school.There are more ways to get there.

Many of these boys who go to these D1 schools rt out of HS, MANY leave after the first year.Many have no idea what it is like, they are no longer the BIG fish they are now like a minnow in a stream of talent.

I wish parents could just enjoy their boys play, wherever they are.So much focus on who is seeing you. So much stress. I know I stressed to but its not worth it.

Lots of college baseball out there.D1 isn't the only good baseball being played.I have talked to kids at all levels that are very happy.Many being GREAT athletes out of HS.At D3, D2, NAIA.

Just don't forget to enjoy the process, the family time with your son, and not just so focused on the results.

Lots of families don't have money right now.The economy is horrible.Dont stress about it.it will all work itself out.

Love your posts. Wonderful, positive, uplifting advice. Almost every kid who goes on to play past high school is a minnow in the stream. Love that metaphor.

quote:

Originally posted by HitaHomer1:
If you are a super stud, IMO you will be found. But there are only a handful of super studs. If you are a pretty good DI, DII player and you live in Georgia, California, Texas, or Florida you will probably be found without a lot of effort. Otherwise, I think you better plan to spend some money. In our state we have a major university 30 minutes away, never once saw the coaches at a game (hs or aummer legion when younger) or really any scouts. The old coach used to go to legion games in the summer and try to find the local talent, current coach does not.
I have wondered why the NCAA ties these kids hands, as well. If you could get in your car and go to a college and throw or hit for a coach it would take 15-30 minutes. You could cover four to six schools in a weekend. That would be nice to kill numerous birds with one stone. Instead you pay for flight, hotel and camp fees and cover only one school.
And add to all that, that if you do sign with a school you are going to be lucky to get 25 to 35% unless you are a really good pitcher.
In the end it is paying off for us. Son is getting in to a great academic school (mid-level DI) that he may not have gotten in to without baseball and he is getting 35%.
Other son is being recruited in more than one sport - and I will say that it is getting out of hand no matter what sport you play. Only difference is in football and basketball you get 100% if you make it to the next level.

I think I agree with all that. Congrats to your son - any scholarship in baseball is a big deal.

HS ball has not become irrelevant!

Why?

Glory Days

I agree completely with Coach May's statement below:

HS baseball is a players opportunity to represent his school and his community. Its an opportunity to play competitive baseball with the guys he has grown up with his whole life. Its his chance to play with those guys he has played with coming up in the game against other kids he has played against coming up in the game. Its a very special time in a baseball players life imo. For some its all the baseball they want. For others its just one part of the process.
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And, I might add that many times your teammates during the summer and fall travel-ball seasons become your opponents during the high school season...lots of friendships are developed at your school and in the surrounding communities. As Coach said, it's a very special time in a baseball players life! I was in Georgia with my son for the WWBA 17u earlier this month. A retired MLB player was out there watching our team play, and one of our dad's happened to grow up in the same neighborhood at a rival school. It was fun listening to them talk about the old days. This gentleman spent a dozen years in the Majors, and he enjoyed talking about his HS years and the players he played with and against during that time.

As for the scouts, IMHO they'll show up where the talent is. My son and his HS teammates were lucky to have a player on the team that was being scouted by a number of clubs. He was drafted last month, and is currently playing Rookie Ball. The year before, three players from my son's league were drafted within the first four rounds, so they're out there. It's tough for college recruiters to come out to HS games during the spring, as they're in the middle of their baseball season too. However, they do have some down time during the season, and if you're lucky and live within an hour or so of a university, you'll see the coaches.

We live in the same area that the ABCL was formed for those looking for other alternatives. The Amateur Baseball Club League is great for those kids that either didn't make their HS team, or perhaps needed another fit for various reasons (ABCL had a few pretty good players). But it will never take over high school ball, and the ABCL Director isn't looking to do that either. High School baseball is still very relevant in our community!

I can only imagine how great it must be to have access to high school ball. color me envious.

I think the most important part of high school baseball is the relationship the players have with their teammates and the pride they take in representing their schools. That does not get replaced by the fact that the highly competitive baseball on the state and national levels begins in the summer. Playing with the guys you grew up with through Little League, middle school and then through the high school levels is a bond that means something special to the young players.

And scouts find their way to high school baseball games even in New Jersey if there are players to evaluate. My son's teammate two seasons ago was AFLAC All-American Chris Jenkins (Stanford). I attended a pre-season scrimmage and saw eight or nine scouts behind the backstop in 45-degree bitter March weather. Each time he pitched that season, you could count on a dozen or more pro scouts at every game. Obviously colleges rely on the summer schedules more heavily to recruit, since the college and high school seasons are concurrent.

Bear..The Boss Rules! I still believe HS ball still has its role in the development of a player. How big or small a role it plays depends on each situation.

After playing many years travel ball then getting to high school the level of play is low compared to Travel Ball. Unless you live in a big city areas, we see our best competition in high school games from the big city teams. I have hardly seen scouts at high school games but have heard the reports of a phenom ocassionally drawing some scouts to some games. As a matter of fact if you dont go to really big events your lucky to see scouts a summer Travel Tournaments. Your best cahnce for al ot of exposure is to stick wit hte really big events as in showcases or tournaments put on by the known organzations for these kinds of things. Dont take chances be sure your going to get exposure not just hoping some scout shows up. High School ball has its place but its down on the list for sure.