Haverford

Kimb27 posted:

My son is visiting Haverford for the 2nd time and overnight.  Wondering if anyone has about the program and the atmosphere. We really like the coach. TIA

A player that I coached is in the program now. His parents are some of my best friends. I will send you a PM 

There was a story in the New York Times a couple years ago about the connection between Haverford baseball players and MLB front offices.  Apparently there is a strong alumni connection.  I found this to be a fascinating perspective on how a D3 ball player can make a career out of the game at the highest levels.  Here's the link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/0...nce-in-baseball.html

You are far more advanced in your process, ADBONO personal connection is one of the best decision points.

Below are some visuals:

Interesting, most of their players are from out-of-state

2019 Distribution by State

Distribution by Position

2018 Distribution by State

2017 Distribution by State

Team Performance last 5 years

Baseball budget for last 10 years.

Smitty28 this is one of the selling points for us.  My S wants to go into Sports Journalism. collegebaseballinsights, that's great info! I always look at the diversity of the roster as a huge plus. Thanks for taking the time to answer!

Kimb27 posted:

Smitty28 this is one of the selling points for us.  My S wants to go into Sports Journalism. collegebaseballinsights, that's great info! I always look at the diversity of the roster as a huge plus. Thanks for taking the time to answer!

No problem.

Here is there 2018 Equity in Athletes Insights.

"The Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act requires co-educational institutions of postsecondary education that participate in a Title IV, federal student financial assistance program, and have an intercollegiate athletic program, to prepare an annual report to the Department of Education on athletic participation, staffing, and revenues and expenses, by men's and women's teams. The Department will use this information in preparing its required report to the Congress on gender equity in intercollegiate athletics."

Here is a comparison of schools within the Conference.

2019

2018

Note, you will see some subtle difference between current and previous year.

Roster Size (Website/EADA)- what the school maintains on their official website vs what they report to Department of Education

Financials

Operating (Game-Day) Expenses

All expenses an institution incurs attributable to home, away, and neutral-site intercollegiate athletic contests (commonly known as game-day expenses), for (A) Lodging, meals, transportation, uniforms, and equipment for coaches, team members, support staff (including, but not limited to team managers and trainers), and others; and (B) Officials.

Total Expenses

All expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities. This includes appearance guarantees and options, athletically related student aid, contract services, equipment, fundraising activities, operating expenses, promotional activities, recruiting expenses, salaries and benefits, supplies, travel, and any other expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities.

Equity in Athletics for the reporting year in question is released in February of following year.

Great info. Attrition numbers are good to see.

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

You are far more advanced in your process, ADBONO personal connection is one of the best decision points.

 

Below are some visuals:

Interesting, most of their players are from out-of-state

2019 Distribution by State

Distribution by Position

2018 Distribution by State

2017 Distribution by State

 

 

Team Performance last 5 years

Baseball budget for last 10 years.

Personal connections have been far more effective in driving the recruiting process than scouting services. That is true in the case of every player I have helped advance from HS to college. 

Haverford is on my 2021 son's long list, and I would love to hear what people have to say as well, not just about their baseball program but about the college as a whole.  It is quite small (much smaller than my son's big public high school), but seems to get high marks from college rankings.  Please post here what you can. 

My 2020 son and I visited this summer.  Great school, campus is beautiful (lots of open space and trees, but very close to Philadelphia), and HC Beccaria impressed me very much.  It's on my son's current very-short list.  (Fwiw, son was also pleased to see that Bryn Mawr, a women's college, is next door, and he hopes contributes to a strong female/male imbalance in the area.)

A couple of other notes:  Haverford is a very small school (a plus IMO), but students can take classes at Swarthmore or Bryn Mawr (and vice versa), and as I recall also can take advantage of any concerts or other events on the other campuses.  The three schools make up the "Tri-College Consortium."  Tri-College students also can take classes at Penn (but only if a class is not offered within the consortium, I think).

Haverford was founded as a Quaker school, but is non-sectarian now.  They  place great emphasis on their honor code, and rely on students to make rules and policies for the college to an extent that is very unusual in my experience.  I recommend a visit.  I have joined my kids on a lot of college tours and the schools tend to blur together, but Haverford stood out to me as a distinctive institution.

Thanks Chico. We come from Quakers! But, I asked when we met the coach if was really Quaker at all at this point and you are correct. The Honor Code is huge and I love the consortium aspect. I grew up not far from there and there is so much to do as a college kid with about 30 schools within 20 miles and of course Philly. He's going the last weekend of Sept for the overnight and to watch a practice and alumni game.  Hoping it feels comfortable for him.

LuckyCat posted:

Haverford is on my 2021 son's long list, and I would love to hear what people have to say as well, not just about their baseball program but about the college as a whole.  It is quite small (much smaller than my son's big public high school), but seems to get high marks from college rankings.  Please post here what you can. 

Truthfully, it's a fine school. But to enjoy the experience at a small school like that you have to really want to go there. Not "I would go there",  it has to be "I want to go there". It's an average sized high school in terms of size. There aren't going to be 300 person parties or Tuesday night parties. You will get a very specific type of student there. That may be what you guys are looking for but its not for everybody, make sure he does his homework.

Truthfully, outside a handful of small LA colleges I could never really justify the tuition for one. Schools like Williams, Tufts, Amherst make sense. The others - I could get the same degree from Penn State and most likely be in a much better position when I graduate. I hear a lot of talk about alumni connections and students who want to study business, but the vast majority of these schools are not target schools for anybody in finance/banking and only pump out 300-500 alumni a year. A school like PSU is going to churn out 10k alumni each year and are going to have bigger, better facilities more opportunities, lower tuition, etc. Then again, there are going to be more of the elite at smaller LA colleges. Just know the ballpark you're playing in and what you want out of it. If he wants a small school with a more dedicated student body and a broader social and academic experience that might be the way to go. If he's a social butterfly looking to stick to a set curriculum and have a ton of activities and opportunities on campus I would look elsewhere.

PABaseball posted:

Truthfully, it's a fine school. But to enjoy the experience at a small school like that you have to really want to go there. Not "I would go there",  it has to be "I want to go there". It's an average sized high school in terms of size. There aren't going to be 300 person parties or Tuesday night parties. You will get a very specific type of student there. That may be what you guys are looking for but its not for everybody, make sure he does his homework.

Truthfully, outside a handful of small LA colleges I could never really justify the tuition for one. Schools like Williams, Tufts, Amherst make sense. The others - I could get the same degree from Penn State and most likely be in a much better position when I graduate. I hear a lot of talk about alumni connections and students who want to study business, but the vast majority of these schools are not target schools for anybody in finance/banking and only pump out 300-500 alumni a year. A school like PSU is going to churn out 10k alumni each year and are going to have bigger, better facilities more opportunities, lower tuition, etc. Then again, there are going to be more of the elite at smaller LA colleges. Just know the ballpark you're playing in and what you want out of it. If he wants a small school with a more dedicated student body and a broader social and academic experience that might be the way to go. If he's a social butterfly looking to stick to a set curriculum and have a ton of activities and opportunities on campus I would look elsewhere.

I appreciate your perspective PABaseball, but, based on my own experience, I don't share this view.

I have an older son who is a rising junior at a small liberal arts college here in the south.  It has a good academic reputation and a strong and loyal alumni network, but it is not "Ivy adjacent," as they say, and doesn't rank quite as high as Haverford on most college rankings.  He could have gone to one of the big public universities in our part of the country, but he chose this small school instead and has never looked back.  I see how he has thrived there, and the quality of the education and attention he is receiving from committed professors in classes often with less than 20 students (he has brought home papers he has written and I've seen the kinds of thoughtful feedback he gets from them) and how those professors and other administrators at his college have supported him and encouraged him to reach for things and stretch himself, such that he has attained things (like really interesting and challenging internships and leadership positions) that he might not have pursued if he was an anonymous face in a sea of 20,000, 30,000, or more students.

Of course, small colleges aren't everyone's cup of tea.  And, I went to one of those big state schools like Penn State and I did fine.  But, I don't think I got as good an education or was put in as good a "position" upon graduation as my son at this small liberal arts college.  He plans to go to law school after he graduates, and I can see (as a lawyer myself) that they are preparing him very well for that next adventure.

The financial end of things, of course, can change the calculus for people.  My son was fortunate enough to receive generous scholarships from this school that made it affordable enough for us to let him go there.  We also saved from the moment he was born to be able to say yes if he wanted to go to a school like this.  I don't regret for a minute what we have spent on his education.

I believe the son of member cgc3 played from 2008-11 at Haverford. He hasn't logged in lately, but he may answer a PM if you're interested.

LuckyCat posted:

PABaseball posted:

Truthfully, it's a fine school. But to enjoy the experience at a small school like that you have to really want to go there. Not "I would go there",  it has to be "I want to go there". It's an average sized high school in terms of size. There aren't going to be 300 person parties or Tuesday night parties. You will get a very specific type of student there. That may be what you guys are looking for but its not for everybody, make sure he does his homework.

Truthfully, outside a handful of small LA colleges I could never really justify the tuition for one. Schools like Williams, Tufts, Amherst make sense. The others - I could get the same degree from Penn State and most likely be in a much better position when I graduate. I hear a lot of talk about alumni connections and students who want to study business, but the vast majority of these schools are not target schools for anybody in finance/banking and only pump out 300-500 alumni a year. A school like PSU is going to churn out 10k alumni each year and are going to have bigger, better facilities more opportunities, lower tuition, etc. Then again, there are going to be more of the elite at smaller LA colleges. Just know the ballpark you're playing in and what you want out of it. If he wants a small school with a more dedicated student body and a broader social and academic experience that might be the way to go. If he's a social butterfly looking to stick to a set curriculum and have a ton of activities and opportunities on campus I would look elsewhere.

I appreciate your perspective PABaseball, but, based on my own experience, I don't share this view.

I have an older son who is a rising junior at a small liberal arts college here in the south.  It has a good academic reputation and a strong and loyal alumni network, but it is not "Ivy adjacent," as they say, and doesn't rank quite as high as Haverford on most college rankings.  He could have gone to one of the big public universities in our part of the country, but he chose this small school instead and has never looked back.  I see how he has thrived there, and the quality of the education and attention he is receiving from committed professors in classes often with less than 20 students (he has brought home papers he has written and I've seen the kinds of thoughtful feedback he gets from them) and how those professors and other administrators at his college have supported him and encouraged him to reach for things and stretch himself, such that he has attained things (like really interesting and challenging internships and leadership positions) that he might not have pursued if he was an anonymous face in a sea of 20,000, 30,000, or more students.

Of course, small colleges aren't everyone's cup of tea.  And, I went to one of those big state schools like Penn State and I did fine.  But, I don't think I got as good an education or was put in as good a "position" upon graduation as my son at this small liberal arts college.  He plans to go to law school after he graduates, and I can see (as a lawyer myself) that they are preparing him very well for that next adventure.

The financial end of things, of course, can change the calculus for people.  My son was fortunate enough to receive generous scholarships from this school that made it affordable enough for us to let him go there.  We also saved from the moment he was born to be able to say yes if he wanted to go to a school like this.  I don't regret for a minute what we have spent on his education.

It goes to show everybody's journey and decision making process is a individual choice.   Good stuff.  Good dialog.

LuckyCat posted:

PABaseball posted:

Truthfully, it's a fine school. But to enjoy the experience at a small school like that you have to really want to go there. Not "I would go there",  it has to be "I want to go there". It's an average sized high school in terms of size. There aren't going to be 300 person parties or Tuesday night parties. You will get a very specific type of student there. That may be what you guys are looking for but its not for everybody, make sure he does his homework.

Truthfully, outside a handful of small LA colleges I could never really justify the tuition for one. Schools like Williams, Tufts, Amherst make sense. The others - I could get the same degree from Penn State and most likely be in a much better position when I graduate. I hear a lot of talk about alumni connections and students who want to study business, but the vast majority of these schools are not target schools for anybody in finance/banking and only pump out 300-500 alumni a year. A school like PSU is going to churn out 10k alumni each year and are going to have bigger, better facilities more opportunities, lower tuition, etc. Then again, there are going to be more of the elite at smaller LA colleges. Just know the ballpark you're playing in and what you want out of it. If he wants a small school with a more dedicated student body and a broader social and academic experience that might be the way to go. If he's a social butterfly looking to stick to a set curriculum and have a ton of activities and opportunities on campus I would look elsewhere.

I appreciate your perspective PABaseball, but, based on my own experience, I don't share this view.

I have an older son who is a rising junior at a small liberal arts college here in the south.  It has a good academic reputation and a strong and loyal alumni network, but it is not "Ivy adjacent," as they say, and doesn't rank quite as high as Haverford on most college rankings.  He could have gone to one of the big public universities in our part of the country, but he chose this small school instead and has never looked back.  I see how he has thrived there, and the quality of the education and attention he is receiving from committed professors in classes often with less than 20 students (he has brought home papers he has written and I've seen the kinds of thoughtful feedback he gets from them) and how those professors and other administrators at his college have supported him and encouraged him to reach for things and stretch himself, such that he has attained things (like really interesting and challenging internships and leadership positions) that he might not have pursued if he was an anonymous face in a sea of 20,000, 30,000, or more students.

Of course, small colleges aren't everyone's cup of tea.  And, I went to one of those big state schools like Penn State and I did fine.  But, I don't think I got as good an education or was put in as good a "position" upon graduation as my son at this small liberal arts college.  He plans to go to law school after he graduates, and I can see (as a lawyer myself) that they are preparing him very well for that next adventure.

The financial end of things, of course, can change the calculus for people.  My son was fortunate enough to receive generous scholarships from this school that made it affordable enough for us to let him go there.  We also saved from the moment he was born to be able to say yes if he wanted to go to a school like this.  I don't regret for a minute what we have spent on his education.

I believe both perspectives (PABaseball and Lucky Cat) are equally true. 

The small, HA D3 will be a great experience for those seeking a liberal arts education (which provides a great foundation for graduate school), being able to interact with intellectuals and getting intimate attention from professors.  Baseball is likely available for most decent high school players

The big school experience gives you the weekend football experience, the band, fight songs etc., and a more focused education (Engineering, Business etc.), which helps you land a good job right away out of graduation.  But, Baseball is only available to the very elite high school players.

Both can be great experiences...it all depends on what the student wants.

AD2018 posted:

LuckyCat posted:

PABaseball posted:

Truthfully, it's a fine school. But to enjoy the experience at a small school like that you have to really want to go there. Not "I would go there",  it has to be "I want to go there". It's an average sized high school in terms of size. There aren't going to be 300 person parties or Tuesday night parties. You will get a very specific type of student there. That may be what you guys are looking for but its not for everybody, make sure he does his homework.

Truthfully, outside a handful of small LA colleges I could never really justify the tuition for one. Schools like Williams, Tufts, Amherst make sense. The others - I could get the same degree from Penn State and most likely be in a much better position when I graduate. I hear a lot of talk about alumni connections and students who want to study business, but the vast majority of these schools are not target schools for anybody in finance/banking and only pump out 300-500 alumni a year. A school like PSU is going to churn out 10k alumni each year and are going to have bigger, better facilities more opportunities, lower tuition, etc. Then again, there are going to be more of the elite at smaller LA colleges. Just know the ballpark you're playing in and what you want out of it. If he wants a small school with a more dedicated student body and a broader social and academic experience that might be the way to go. If he's a social butterfly looking to stick to a set curriculum and have a ton of activities and opportunities on campus I would look elsewhere.

I appreciate your perspective PABaseball, but, based on my own experience, I don't share this view.

I have an older son who is a rising junior at a small liberal arts college here in the south.  It has a good academic reputation and a strong and loyal alumni network, but it is not "Ivy adjacent," as they say, and doesn't rank quite as high as Haverford on most college rankings.  He could have gone to one of the big public universities in our part of the country, but he chose this small school instead and has never looked back.  I see how he has thrived there, and the quality of the education and attention he is receiving from committed professors in classes often with less than 20 students (he has brought home papers he has written and I've seen the kinds of thoughtful feedback he gets from them) and how those professors and other administrators at his college have supported him and encouraged him to reach for things and stretch himself, such that he has attained things (like really interesting and challenging internships and leadership positions) that he might not have pursued if he was an anonymous face in a sea of 20,000, 30,000, or more students.

Of course, small colleges aren't everyone's cup of tea.  And, I went to one of those big state schools like Penn State and I did fine.  But, I don't think I got as good an education or was put in as good a "position" upon graduation as my son at this small liberal arts college.  He plans to go to law school after he graduates, and I can see (as a lawyer myself) that they are preparing him very well for that next adventure.

The financial end of things, of course, can change the calculus for people.  My son was fortunate enough to receive generous scholarships from this school that made it affordable enough for us to let him go there.  We also saved from the moment he was born to be able to say yes if he wanted to go to a school like this.  I don't regret for a minute what we have spent on his education.

I believe both perspectives (PABaseball and Lucky Cat) are equally true. 

The small, HA D3 will be a great experience for those seeking a liberal arts education (which provides a great foundation for graduate school), being able to interact with intellectuals and getting intimate attention from professors.  Baseball is likely available for most decent high school players

The big school experience gives you the weekend football experience, the band, fight songs etc., and a more focused education (Engineering, Business etc.), which helps you land a good job right away out of graduation.  But, Baseball is only available to the very elite high school players.

Both can be great experiences...it all depends on what the student wants.

You have to be way better than “most decent high school players” to play baseball at Haverford.  It is (probably) a top 50 D3 program. 

Haverford is every bit the college as the mentioned NESCAC’s. Kids from these schools pour into New York finance, Washington politics and top grad schools. 

adbono posted:

AD2018 posted:

LuckyCat posted:

PABaseball posted:

 

 

I believe both perspectives (PABaseball and Lucky Cat) are equally true. 

The small, HA D3 will be a great experience for those seeking a liberal arts education (which provides a great foundation for graduate school), being able to interact with intellectuals and getting intimate attention from professors.  Baseball is likely available for most decent high school players

The big school experience gives you the weekend football experience, the band, fight songs etc., and a more focused education (Engineering, Business etc.), which helps you land a good job right away out of graduation.  But, Baseball is only available to the very elite high school players.

Both can be great experiences...it all depends on what the student wants.

You have to be way better than “most decent high school players” to play baseball at Haverford.  It is (probably) a top 50 D3 program. 

Great school so I am not taking a shot here but...they aren't a top 50. They aren't even top 3 in the Centennial which is not the toughest league in the Mid Atlantic. 

Most decent HS players can't play at good D3 baseball programs, which Haverford certainly qualifies for. 

old_school posted:

Great school so I am not taking a shot here but...they aren't a top 50. They aren't even top 3 in the Centennial which is not the toughest league in the Mid Atlantic. 

Most decent HS players can't play at good D3 baseball programs, which Haverford certainly qualifies for. 

I have no dog in this fight and I've never seen a Centennial Conference game, but Haverford was 3rd in the conference in 2019    (Prior years they were 5th, then 2d two years in a row before that.)

Seriously though:  Since Johns Hopkins is 2x or more larger than the other schools in the conference, I take it they are the proverbial 300 lb. gorilla.  Are the others perennially playing catch-up?  

I can confirm the coach is a good guy and doesn't say he wants you unless he REALLY does. The field is gorgeous for a D3.  The top four/five teams in the conference are very competitive, despite Hopkins usually being the bully on the block. Baseball culture is fun and they do send an unusual # of guys into pro ball mgmt as do a number of other LA colleges (Amherst, for example).  Just dropped first year son off at Swarthmore. He was recruited at Haverford but thought it was too small for him. So he's going to a big school like Swarthmore ().

SMOKEMEINSIDE that made me laugh!  May be making a visit there too.  Thanks for the insight.  My son really likes the coach and his candor. He seems to really want him there, so we will see how it goes after the overnight.  We picked the perfect weekend, there's an intrasquad game and then an alumni game and BBQ. so, we will all get a great feel for the team and culture.

Chico Escuela posted:

old_school posted:

Great school so I am not taking a shot here but...they aren't a top 50. They aren't even top 3 in the Centennial which is not the toughest league in the Mid Atlantic. 

Most decent HS players can't play at good D3 baseball programs, which Haverford certainly qualifies for. 

I have no dog in this fight and I've never seen a Centennial Conference game, but Haverford was 3rd in the conference in 2019    (Prior years they were 5th, then 2d two years in a row before that.)

Seriously though:  Since Johns Hopkins is 2x or more larger than the other schools in the conference, I take it they are the proverbial 300 lb. gorilla.  Are the others perennially playing catch-up?  

Correct with an overall record for 5 yrs of about .500 baseball. They are solid team but not top tier. If you don’t get to see a lot games you might be suprised what is out there. 

old_school posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

old_school posted:

Great school so I am not taking a shot here but...they aren't a top 50. They aren't even top 3 in the Centennial which is not the toughest league in the Mid Atlantic. 

Most decent HS players can't play at good D3 baseball programs, which Haverford certainly qualifies for. 

I have no dog in this fight and I've never seen a Centennial Conference game, but Haverford was 3rd in the conference in 2019    (Prior years they were 5th, then 2d two years in a row before that.)

Seriously though:  Since Johns Hopkins is 2x or more larger than the other schools in the conference, I take it they are the proverbial 300 lb. gorilla.  Are the others perennially playing catch-up?  

Correct with an overall record for 5 yrs of about .500 baseball. They are solid team but not top tier. If you don’t get to see a lot games you might be suprised what is out there. 

Old School, I hope it was clear I was just kidding around with my comment about Haverford's conference record.  I like the college, but I know next to nothing about the baseball program other than that I hear good things about the HC and I know they have a number of alumni in MLB front offices.

I'm curious though:  When you say I might be surprised what is out there--do you mean surprised positively or negatively (by the level of play, I think you mean? or something else?)?  I have seen almost no D3 baseball, so I really don't know what to expect.

I have seen a lot of D3 baseball, a ton of D1 baseball, and even more JuCo baseball. Haverford is pretty good and you can’t judge them just by their record.  Unlike many schools they don’t put their best lineup on the field in non-conference games. 

I've also seen very little D3 baseball but remember how HA D3 Middlebury beat the living snot out of Dartmouth (on their field) this Spring ... with big contributions by the freshman son of one of our regular contributors!! I'm confident it takes a whole lot more to play at these schools than being a "decent HS player."

LuckyCat posted:

PABaseball posted:

Truthfully, it's a fine school. But to enjoy the experience at a small school like that you have to really want to go there. Not "I would go there",  it has to be "I want to go there". It's an average sized high school in terms of size. There aren't going to be 300 person parties or Tuesday night parties. You will get a very specific type of student there. That may be what you guys are looking for but its not for everybody, make sure he does his homework.

Truthfully, outside a handful of small LA colleges I could never really justify the tuition for one. Schools like Williams, Tufts, Amherst make sense. The others - I could get the same degree from Penn State and most likely be in a much better position when I graduate. I hear a lot of talk about alumni connections and students who want to study business, but the vast majority of these schools are not target schools for anybody in finance/banking and only pump out 300-500 alumni a year. A school like PSU is going to churn out 10k alumni each year and are going to have bigger, better facilities more opportunities, lower tuition, etc. Then again, there are going to be more of the elite at smaller LA colleges. Just know the ballpark you're playing in and what you want out of it. If he wants a small school with a more dedicated student body and a broader social and academic experience that might be the way to go. If he's a social butterfly looking to stick to a set curriculum and have a ton of activities and opportunities on campus I would look elsewhere.

I appreciate your perspective PABaseball, but, based on my own experience, I don't share this view.

I have an older son who is a rising junior at a small liberal arts college here in the south.  It has a good academic reputation and a strong and loyal alumni network, but it is not "Ivy adjacent," as they say, and doesn't rank quite as high as Haverford on most college rankings.  He could have gone to one of the big public universities in our part of the country, but he chose this small school instead and has never looked back.  I see how he has thrived there, and the quality of the education and attention he is receiving from committed professors in classes often with less than 20 students (he has brought home papers he has written and I've seen the kinds of thoughtful feedback he gets from them) and how those professors and other administrators at his college have supported him and encouraged him to reach for things and stretch himself, such that he has attained things (like really interesting and challenging internships and leadership positions) that he might not have pursued if he was an anonymous face in a sea of 20,000, 30,000, or more students.

Of course, small colleges aren't everyone's cup of tea.  And, I went to one of those big state schools like Penn State and I did fine.  But, I don't think I got as good an education or was put in as good a "position" upon graduation as my son at this small liberal arts college.  He plans to go to law school after he graduates, and I can see (as a lawyer myself) that they are preparing him very well for that next adventure.

The financial end of things, of course, can change the calculus for people.  My son was fortunate enough to receive generous scholarships from this school that made it affordable enough for us to let him go there.  We also saved from the moment he was born to be able to say yes if he wanted to go to a school like this.  I don't regret for a minute what we have spent on his education.

It works both ways. If you're heading to a massive school (20k+) then you're going to have to put in the legwork and make sure you're not another face in the 250 person lecture. Sure there are going to be smaller classes at a school with only 1500 kids, but there are still discussion sections at the large publics. English, labs, history classes will all have sections of around 20.

Either way I get what you're saying. My point was more or less you have to really want  to go there. It can't just be a yeah it's a good school I'll go. That has to be the atmosphere you want. Still a very good school and can open doors. The point was that in relation to the price tag there could be better options if you were not all in on wanting the small school feel. If small school is what is desired then it's a no brainer to take a closer look at. 

Baseball Mom2020 I guess it would have to be a decision regarding playing time.  Will your son play at the low D1 like he would at the D3? And I may be wrong, but are there low D1s with the same type of academics as a HA D3? Lots kids get drafted out of D3 and JUCO. If you're good, they find you. Especially pitchers.

Chico Escuela posted:

old_school posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

old_school posted:

 

Old School, I hope it was clear I was just kidding around with my comment about Haverford's conference record.  I like the college, but I know next to nothing about the baseball program other than that I hear good things about the HC and I know they have a number of alumni in MLB front offices.

I'm curious though:  When you say I might be surprised what is out there--do you mean surprised positively or negatively (by the level of play, I think you mean? or something else?)?  I have seen almost no D3 baseball, so I really don't know what to expect.

You might be surprised how good it is. Many people don't understand even on this forum. The comments made sometimes while not necessarily intentional are just uninformed and cheapen what the game is. From the commitment required, to the time demanded, to the effort put in from the players. Even comments like  "most decent HS player"

Maybe I misunderstood how the decent is being used but the lineups I see day after day at the D3 level are filled with HS guys who were first team players...not my definition of decent. Pitching depth is really the biggest glaring weakness. 

Whatever it is all good. 

baseball mom2020 posted:

A little off topic but - my son has had interest from HA very low D1 and several HA D3 Nescac. Yesterday while talking to someone (whose kid played baseball in college) they said go for the D1 because D3 is pretty much "club" baseball and he will never get noticed. I don't think thats true but its left this nagging thought in the back of my mind. So with academics being pretty equal is it better to play in a very low D1vs high Nescac?

My point, thank you.

Baseballmom, if you son is being recruited by a low level HA D1 and Nescac who do you want him to get noticed by? 

How do you define "better to play" what is the grading criteria? So much of it is an individual choice and preference but playing low level D1 HA will probably get you a record of 15-40 or so and having your teeth kicked in for the first 5 weeks of the season by teams totally out of your league...how does that sound for better? 

Edit - "D3 is pretty much "club" baseball and he will never get noticed."- sorry but this comment by whomever you were talking to is just inaccurate and to be honest stupid. I have a son playing D3 baseball and a 2nd one playing D1 club baseball, they aren't the same, they aren't close and your informant doesn't know a damn thing about what they speak. 

Kimb27 posted:

Baseball Mom2020 I guess it would have to be a decision regarding playing time.  Will your son play at the low D1 like he would at the D3? And I may be wrong, but are there low D1s with the same type of academics as a HA D3? Lots kids get drafted out of D3 and JUCO. If you're good, they find you. Especially pitchers.

"Lots of kids get drafted out of D3" is not really true.  A few kids get drafted.  This is where doing research matters.  All these things collegebaseballinsights keeps posting on here; look at how many players play summer ball, and high-level summer ball, that's an interesting number, varies widely among D3s.  For low D1s, there are low-baseball-level D1s that are HA, and there are those that are not.  Look at the % of juniors and seniors who are transfers (JUCO, or from P5) at these schools; some are as high as 80%, and those are the players who actually get playing time (look at the stats).  So just going to a low-level D1 is not a guarantee of anything; you have to look at each school specifically.

PABaseball posted:

It works both ways. If you're heading to a massive school (20k+) then you're going to have to put in the legwork and make sure you're not another face in the 250 person lecture. Sure there are going to be smaller classes at a school with only 1500 kids, but there are still discussion sections at the large publics. English, labs, history classes will all have sections of around 20.

Either way I get what you're saying. My point was more or less you have to really want  to go there. It can't just be a yeah it's a good school I'll go. That has to be the atmosphere you want. Still a very good school and can open doors. The point was that in relation to the price tag there could be better options if you were not all in on wanting the small school feel. If small school is what is desired then it's a no brainer to take a closer look at. 

What you are saying is how to choose a college if playing baseball is not in the picture.  But on this site, playing baseball is usually a (big) part of the decision.  Most people do not make a choice between playing baseball at a large state D1 or at a D3 LAC.  Certainly many make the choice for large school without baseball over small school with baseball, and I know we all say choose a school where you would be happy if baseball ended, but if baseball is at all a priority, then you are limited to the schools that want you to play baseball. Are you implying that "non-D1 players" shouldn't be thinking about baseball at all?  It's not all about making it to the next level, some of it is about playing the game where you are.

smokeminside posted:

I can confirm the coach is a good guy and doesn't say he wants you unless he REALLY does. The field is gorgeous for a D3.  The top four/five teams in the conference are very competitive, despite Hopkins usually being the bully on the block. Baseball culture is fun and they do send an unusual # of guys into pro ball mgmt as do a number of other LA colleges (Amherst, for example).  Just dropped first year son off at Swarthmore. He was recruited at Haverford but thought it was too small for him. So he's going to a big school like Swarthmore ().

You should rent a place in Greenwich CT for the month of April.

It simply doesnt matter if a player is at a D3 or a D1: if he has pro-potential he will be found and drafted/signed. It doesn't matter whether he plays in a college quasi-MILB stadium or on a field without dirt basepaths, he will be found. 

(If the player won't start for a "low HA D1" he's not likely to move to the next level, anyway.)

If baseball has earned a player the leverage to get admitted to that HA school (regardless of division), the family has done its job. [And the HA definition I'm using is extremely narrow.]

Focus on the opportunities a college offers him for life after college: internships, grad school options, employment options. Focus of what the college offers him during college: being taught to critically think, being taught to communicate clearly in writing and orally, fulfilling (as best as possible) his intellectual potential, becoming a leader, finding and exploring new heretofore unexpected interests, socializing opportunities, building post-college networks, and the rest which matures him. That is what a decade of baseball focus has earned for the overwhelming majority of college players; going pro is for a small minority (and within this group the vast majority will be working in the real world within just a few years of the draft, anyway).

Where will your son thrive (as best can be guessed for a teenager)? Some in small LAs, some not; some in rural areas, some in cities.

Baseball got him there, so figure out where the best springboard to his intellectual success and future employment lies.

Imo.

smokeminside posted:

I can confirm the coach is a good guy and doesn't say he wants you unless he REALLY does. The field is gorgeous for a D3.  The top four/five teams in the conference are very competitive, despite Hopkins usually being the bully on the block. Baseball culture is fun and they do send an unusual # of guys into pro ball mgmt as do a number of other LA colleges (Amherst, for example).  Just dropped first year son off at Swarthmore. He was recruited at Haverford but thought it was too small for him. So he's going to a big school like Swarthmore ().

Nice Smoke!  Swat is a cozy campus, 30minute train ride to downtown Philly.  HC Midkiff is a solid guy and straight shooter...my 2018 spoke seriously with him and really liked his ambition to build his baseball program.  The field is nice, hopefully they improved the bleachers for the (numerous fans...). 

Friends son just graduated playing LAX for Swat and really like it....kid is now starting analyst program at GS after some cache internships offered  to Swat kids.

Former club teammate of son chose low D1 HA school in Patriot league.  Solid lefty hitter and OF... rec'd minimal  ABs...he was miserable not being able to get on the field and still traveled the D1 schedule all the time.  He truly wishes he wasn't so caught up playing D1 and opted for a HA D3 where he likely would have thrived and been able to play at least half the games.  Kid is far from pro prospect material (that can always change), but he lacked the work ethic to refine his game which seriously reduces upside.  This Patriot school has a student population less than Middlebury I believe....  

As stated above, the difference between D1 and D3 is primarily pitching. The frustrating thing for son, and frankly, for me to watch, were the non-conference game opposition where the secondary P's were throwing less than 75 with 60mph CB.  It was miserable to watch, and son was hitting a spread of 10-15mph for FB....so many hitters lunging at the damn ball just to get into play. Patience required.

The NESCAC D3 games I've seen had really solid MIF's and a CF, every other team seemed to lack depth behind the plate...

With lower D1's it was really hit or miss with their ability....Conference game with a good D3 would threaten them easily.  But still the difference would be pitching depth.  

Focus on the best school to help position your son for his future.  Get out of the D1 think.

JMO

EDIT: Apologies for off the OP thread...the mentioning of Swat, the comps with Low D1 HA seemed to lead down this path.

baseball mom2020 posted:

... Yesterday while talking to someone (whose kid played baseball in college) they said go for the D1 because D3 is pretty much "club" baseball and he will never get noticed. I don't think thats true but its left this nagging thought in the back of my mind. So with academics being pretty equal is it better to play in a very low D1vs high Nescac?

That is far too broad of a statement.  There are D3 programs and conferences that are quite competitive and have players drafted with some relative regularity (yes, I know, not many from D3 in general).  And, there are some D1 programs and conferences that would really surprise the average college baseball fan with how low the level of play is.  Most folks "whose kid played baseball in college" do not have a broad scope of the college baseball landscape outside of that which their son played, some local play and what they see on TV.   Take comments with a grain of salt.  You really have to dig with each program and conference.

As example, if a player chose a D1 over a D3 because of the D1 label and that schools was a perennial loser but the D3 school was competitive year in and year out, he would most likely come to regret his choice. 

To add:  I have seen more than a few "all-league" level HS players sit or get cut from some better D3 teams.

Bingo Cabbage

Anyone stating D3 ball is equivalent to club baseball doesn’t know what they’re talking about. D3 players work just as hard as D1 players. D1 players are bigger, faster and stronger making the game quicker and more challenging.

On average, about fifteen D3 players are drafted per year. A handful more get signed as free agents. It’s usually late blooming pitchers throwing 90+ senior year.

If a player is recruited by several D3’s and one mid major D1 is the D1 overrating him and he’s a long shot to earn playing time? Or have a lot of D1’s misjudged the player? Chances are it’s the former.

RJM posted:

Anyone staring D3 ball is equivalent to club baseball doesn’t know what they’re talking about. D3 players work just as hard as D1 players. D1 players are bigger, faster and stronger making the game quicker and more challenging.

On average, about fifteen D3 players are drafted per year. A handful more get signed as free agents. It’s usually late blooming pitchers throwing 90+ senior year.

If a player is recruited by several D3’s and one mid major D1 is the D1 overrating him and he’s a long shot to earn playing time? Or have a lot of D1’s misjudged the player? Chances are it’s the former.

Or, the player woke up to: odds of playing professionally? The mediocre acceptance rate mid D1 will not help position me for initial career options out of college. (Advisory, Banking, HFund, Law, Medicine....)  

Concur with thoughts about college club ball.

Interesting: on sons NESCAC team there were several juniors that likely had only D3 opportunity's coming out of school, epitome of late bloomers, played solid ball the past season and would have competed well for Mid D1 IF starting spots.  One of the kids had an offer from a solid UNC school, but opted to be able to play right away at a HA D3, and leverage his baseball toward a career in medicine.