Has anyone ever been in a situation where they know more than the head coach. I was talking to the guy they hired here it our school and he had never heard of a balk or a pick-off move....and hes been coaching for five years.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
All HS coaches have this problem 
How do you know that you know more than the head coach does?
Did you two take a test and compare grades?
BOF
All high school coaches do not have this problem---it is mostly parents who think they know more than the coach
Did you two take a test and compare grades?
BOF
All high school coaches do not have this problem---it is mostly parents who think they know more than the coach
that's a good question!quote:by C-Byrd: Has anyone ever been in a situation where they know more than the head coach. I was talking to the guy they hired here it our school and he had never heard of a balk or a pick-off move....and hes been coaching for five years.
sometimes schools will hire the best available guy and they learn on the job ...
usually not a problem as players and parents can help em get up to speed in 3-5 yrs.
btw, what's a balk?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
BOF
All high school coaches do not have this problem---it is mostly parents who think they know more than the coach
I thought that was obvious from my post.
fa·ce·tious /fəˈsiʃəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fuh-see-shuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: a facetious person.
–adjective 1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: a facetious person.
Of course the parents know more than the HS coach. That's why he's taking all that abuse for almost no pay and they're not.
Gee BOF,
Maybe if you had a smiley face...Oh you did, didn't you!
Maybe if you had a smiley face...Oh you did, didn't you!
coachbyrd,
I find that hard to believe. Most HS coaches know a lot more about baseball than most of the parents, and they virtually always know more about HS baseball. There are times when a parent knows more than the HS coach, but you can seldom tell who they are because they usually don't say anything at all.
I find that hard to believe. Most HS coaches know a lot more about baseball than most of the parents, and they virtually always know more about HS baseball. There are times when a parent knows more than the HS coach, but you can seldom tell who they are because they usually don't say anything at all.
I heard a comment one time at a coaching clinic that I thought was funny. Can't remember who said it.
"Most parents and youth coaches know everything except what they don't know".
I just laughed and nodded when I heard that.
"Most parents and youth coaches know everything except what they don't know".
I just laughed and nodded when I heard that.
This thread is pretty on target....
I always said my dream job was coaching at an ORPHANAGE!!
I always said my dream job was coaching at an ORPHANAGE!!
I don't know, I've known of a HS asst. coach who admitted he had never even played the game. At all. Ever. He was just out there trying to follow another coach's lead.
Wasn't getting paid, so I guess nobody could complain about not getting their money's worth.
Wasn't getting paid, so I guess nobody could complain about not getting their money's worth.
I'm lucky that I retired from the Head Coaching position before anyone discovered that I didn't know anything. Of course they had Strong indications! 
Texan, my dad coached football for a couple years and I believe before I was born coached football and I think was even a head coach for awhile. He had never played before-- his school just got football a few years ago. He coached for 5 or 6 years at my high school (where he currently teaches) and he knows very little about football. But the head coach wanted him there so he was
Also, he didn't play baseball in high school, and he's coached high school baseball for 20 years or so.
CoachB, you're just lucky you had good athletes that could outweigh the ignorance, huh?
Also, he didn't play baseball in high school, and he's coached high school baseball for 20 years or so.
CoachB, you're just lucky you had good athletes that could outweigh the ignorance, huh?
I was checking in at the Tournament Directors table at a late season tourney this past august. A group of local youth coaches who were assisting in the tournament operation were discussing the recent opening up of the local HS baseball coaches job.....
One coach said that it was about time.... that the coach was horrible and not the kind of man you wanted your son to play for.....
The youth coach group seemed to agree with him....and I just couldnt stand it....Since I have intimate knowledge of the program (my son is an alum)....
I reviewed the following facts......
in the past 5 years (his tenure)
1 section title
1 Co-section title
winningest program- baseball
Most Honor roll students- baseball
Least disciplinary incidents- baseball
most players playing college sports-baseball (my son included)
He is a fine young man, married w/ 2 children, HS teacher, middle school basketball coach as well.....
when asked if they knew of any of those facts, the youth coach group said no.......and forgive me, I couldnt help it........I had to add...
Then is safe to say you guys dont know anything about what is important in HS baseball and the coach you are so ready to crucify.........I didnt wait for a response.......
Now, I'm not calling this coach the greatest thing since connie mack, but he didnt deserve this.....He didnt deserve to have his job opened up either, but local politics are what they are......They are better coaches out there, but not too many better men........
I saw him the other night outside walmart where he was supervising our local HS students who were volunteering to man the salvation army donation kettle.....
He has some offers to coach again this spring and I offered to lend a hand in anyway I can........He is the kind of "man" I wanted coaching my son.....
One coach said that it was about time.... that the coach was horrible and not the kind of man you wanted your son to play for.....
The youth coach group seemed to agree with him....and I just couldnt stand it....Since I have intimate knowledge of the program (my son is an alum)....
I reviewed the following facts......
in the past 5 years (his tenure)
1 section title
1 Co-section title
winningest program- baseball
Most Honor roll students- baseball
Least disciplinary incidents- baseball
most players playing college sports-baseball (my son included)
He is a fine young man, married w/ 2 children, HS teacher, middle school basketball coach as well.....
when asked if they knew of any of those facts, the youth coach group said no.......and forgive me, I couldnt help it........I had to add...
Then is safe to say you guys dont know anything about what is important in HS baseball and the coach you are so ready to crucify.........I didnt wait for a response.......
Now, I'm not calling this coach the greatest thing since connie mack, but he didnt deserve this.....He didnt deserve to have his job opened up either, but local politics are what they are......They are better coaches out there, but not too many better men........
I saw him the other night outside walmart where he was supervising our local HS students who were volunteering to man the salvation army donation kettle.....
He has some offers to coach again this spring and I offered to lend a hand in anyway I can........He is the kind of "man" I wanted coaching my son.....
Someone once told me that coaching at a high youth level is a great job, as long as you don't mind having a bull's eye painted on your back.
The thing about baseball is, everyone's an expert in their own minds. And parents are typically unkind, biased and otherwise terrible towards coaches.
That being said, don't let anyone tell you there aren't bad coaches out there. There are. So if someone can give you concrete examples of a coach's incompetence, you might want to consider the possibility that he has indeed been saddled with one of the bad apples.
The thing about baseball is, everyone's an expert in their own minds. And parents are typically unkind, biased and otherwise terrible towards coaches.
That being said, don't let anyone tell you there aren't bad coaches out there. There are. So if someone can give you concrete examples of a coach's incompetence, you might want to consider the possibility that he has indeed been saddled with one of the bad apples.
There are bad coaches everywhere at every level and in every sport---but there is no need to use a broad brush
For a $2,000 stipend yew you get the opportunity to:
Feb: Start of the HS season practice 2 till dark 6 days per week. During Easter "vacation" you either practice or are away with the team at a tournament.
You get to tell 10-25 kids and parents that their son just played his last baseball game. (HS at least)
Season starts and you are either practicing or away at games and don’t get home until 8PM.. When not doing this you are reviewing film, stats, juggling line-ups. Oh yeah forgot about daily discussions with your Frosh/J.V. Coaches in the evenings.
Season ends and you are organizing summer teams. All summer you get to manage your summer teams.
Oh.....I forget that the HS maintenance staff has no clue about how to maintain a baseball field(s) So you get the additional task of making sure that the field is properly cared for. That’s right YOU become the head greenskeeper of 2 baseball fields.
You actually get two weeks away between summer ball and HS start again in August WOO HOO....
HS starts in Aug/Sept - up at 5:30AM for strength and conditioning work outs before school. More work outs after school. Organizing fall ball teams.
Nov-Dec work on winter workouts or winterball schedules/leagues. Recruiting athletes making sure baseball is a priority.
Oh I forgot what about your Real Job....
Oh and you get to hear what a slug you are from all the parents.
Sign me up.....
Feb: Start of the HS season practice 2 till dark 6 days per week. During Easter "vacation" you either practice or are away with the team at a tournament.
You get to tell 10-25 kids and parents that their son just played his last baseball game. (HS at least)
Season starts and you are either practicing or away at games and don’t get home until 8PM.. When not doing this you are reviewing film, stats, juggling line-ups. Oh yeah forgot about daily discussions with your Frosh/J.V. Coaches in the evenings.
Season ends and you are organizing summer teams. All summer you get to manage your summer teams.
Oh.....I forget that the HS maintenance staff has no clue about how to maintain a baseball field(s) So you get the additional task of making sure that the field is properly cared for. That’s right YOU become the head greenskeeper of 2 baseball fields.
You actually get two weeks away between summer ball and HS start again in August WOO HOO....
HS starts in Aug/Sept - up at 5:30AM for strength and conditioning work outs before school. More work outs after school. Organizing fall ball teams.
Nov-Dec work on winter workouts or winterball schedules/leagues. Recruiting athletes making sure baseball is a priority.
Oh I forgot what about your Real Job....
Oh and you get to hear what a slug you are from all the parents.
Sign me up.....
FOB
What is your point?
What is your point?
I was brought to this school to be the offensive coordinator for the football team...In addition to that I am helping with the baseball team which is fine because I love the game and helped coach it the last 6 years at my old school..I also pitched for four years in college......the head baseball coach did not even play baseball in high school..he coached at some school for three years before and won 4 games total...our school is more of a football school but i hate to lose and i hate to see kids taught something that is not right..im not saying i know everything but i am going to struggle working with this guy...how do you coach high school ball and not know what a pick off is
How do you take a job as an assistant and not know what the Head Coach is all about?-- Home work is in order before saying I will take the job
1) playing isn't necessarily a prerequisite to being a good coachquote:by c-bird: the head baseball coach did not even play baseball in high school..he coached at some school for three years before and won 4 games total...our school is more of a football school but i hate to lose and i hate to see kids taught something that is not right..im not saying i know everything but i am going to struggle working with this guy...how do you coach high school ball and not know what a pick off is
2) IF your accessment is on target, then he's obviously doing it for the money
3) IF doing it for the money, he'd come out ahead being a greeter at walmart
4) maybe you could help with the pick-off move drills
5) IF ya bash your boss on a national message board, don't be surprised to be fired on a national message board?
A buddy of mine was hired at a high school and was in the same situation you seemed to be in coachbyrd. All he did was tried to back the head coach at times he needed backing and tried to tell him the ideas and things he wanted to see them work on in practice. This coach he worked under knew he knew nothing about baseball, even told some people that. After 2 years the coach was fired and because of his time he put in and the fact that he never bad mouthed him he got the job. He taught what he knew and never stepped on the toes of the coach and is now a good coach in a good program.
So my suggestion is buy your time teach what you know, keep learning and don't step on someone's toes, there was a reason he got the job, some reason but a reason, and if he is as bad as you say there will be some reason he will be released.
So my suggestion is buy your time teach what you know, keep learning and don't step on someone's toes, there was a reason he got the job, some reason but a reason, and if he is as bad as you say there will be some reason he will be released.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
FOB
What is your point?
pic·to·ri·al·ize /pɪkˈtɔriəˌlaɪz, -ˈtoʊr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pik-tawr-ee-uh-lahyz, -tohr-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), -ized, -iz·ing. to make pictorial; illustrate or represent with or as if with pictures.
Also, especially British, pic·to·ri·al·ise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1865–70; pictorial + -ize]
—Related forms
pic·to·ri·al·i·za·tion, noun
Bee got it head on.
The coach is most likely trying to help out some kids, so if you know SOOOO much about baseball help him out, don't post a question that has no answer a message board.
BOF
Who said I know sooooooooo much? YOU?
Another "Fool on the Hill" with a new name--or is it the same one ?
It is truly scarey when posters use numerous IDS to post behind the screen--those with confidence can use their true ID and not multiple internet IDS---BOF you are one insecure individual
Who said I know sooooooooo much? YOU?
Another "Fool on the Hill" with a new name--or is it the same one ?
It is truly scarey when posters use numerous IDS to post behind the screen--those with confidence can use their true ID and not multiple internet IDS---BOF you are one insecure individual
I was at a Tom House pitching clinic a few years back and this topic came up. Tom offered that from his perspective that as your child goes from Little League to High School, College, Minor League and Majors that each step of the way you would like to think the coaching gets better when in fact it gets worse. He was serious. One lesson from that comment might be to get used to it.
Of course Tom offerred that assesment when he was a consultant. He may have another opinion now that he is the pitching coach at UCLA.
Finally, now that its the end of the year it might be a good time for awards. I would like to nominate TR for the Bluto Blutarsky award for starting the most food fights on this site. Any seconds or other nominations?
Of course Tom offerred that assesment when he was a consultant. He may have another opinion now that he is the pitching coach at UCLA.
Finally, now that its the end of the year it might be a good time for awards. I would like to nominate TR for the Bluto Blutarsky award for starting the most food fights on this site. Any seconds or other nominations?
I never said i knew alot about baseball...it is his team not mine...it is my job to help out which i will do...all i did was ask if anyone had been in a situation like this before...i was just looking for advice... i dont want to take over but there are certain things every ball player should be taught and they cant be taught if the coach doesnt know everything....he never even played ball....thank those of you who understood the question and didnt feel the need to knock me for asking
CoachByrd:
Don't worry too much about what your head coach doesn't know. Just do your dead level best to get as much info to the kids as you can... You don't have to go against him if you can get him to agree that there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Use your experience as a good thing for the players... not as a hammer to get your way.
Example: If he's not up to par on balks, you say to him, how about I take a few minutes today to go over some balk stuff with the pitchers??? Or coach, carve me out some time in the next day or two to go over balk stuff with everybody so our baserunners and pitchers will be up to snuff.
Let's find a positive here: you can instruct him right along with them... he's going to see that you have experience that he doesn't have...
By the end of the year he could learn a lot and you two might be a good team (he may have organizational skills or personnel skills you can gain from)....
Good luck and stay positive...
Don't worry too much about what your head coach doesn't know. Just do your dead level best to get as much info to the kids as you can... You don't have to go against him if you can get him to agree that there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Use your experience as a good thing for the players... not as a hammer to get your way.
Example: If he's not up to par on balks, you say to him, how about I take a few minutes today to go over some balk stuff with the pitchers??? Or coach, carve me out some time in the next day or two to go over balk stuff with everybody so our baserunners and pitchers will be up to snuff.
Let's find a positive here: you can instruct him right along with them... he's going to see that you have experience that he doesn't have...
By the end of the year he could learn a lot and you two might be a good team (he may have organizational skills or personnel skills you can gain from)....
Good luck and stay positive...
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
BOF
Who said I know sooooooooo much? YOU?
Another "Fool on the Hill" with a new name--or is it the same one ?
It is truly scarey when posters new numerous IDS to post behind the screen--those with confidenc ecan use their true ID and not multiples internet IDS---BOF you are one insecure individual
I will be very careful with my words TR since I have read some of your posts and you have been here quite some time and seem to have some insight. (food fights aside)
1. I have been on this site for about 6 months and have received some good advice regarding my son’s baseball experience. I have also received advice that I take with a grain of salt.
2. I have had only one posting name. BOF. It is as public as I want it to be to protect my son’s identity for obvious reasons. I frankly think it is fairly creative acronym. (see number 5 below)
3. I have PM’d others and have been very open, even giving out my phone number.
4. I apologize if my post appeared to criticize you, but it was directed to the original poster. Read it again and maybe you can see where I was going with it. As a general comment please read my posts (and maybe others) thoroughly before jumping the gun.
5. I may be many things, but insecure is not one of them. I admit that I can be quite facetious. My wife will be more than happy to give you a list of my many personality flaws.
6. I have a particular sensitivity to the amount of work it takes to manage a baseball team and coach kids and frankly am sick and tired or parents, posters and others criticizing coaches who put in many many many hours of work on behalf of kids. They may not be perfect, but most are doing the best they can. Like most things in life you will never know what it is like until you walk in their shoes.
If I wanted to offend you I would have posted something like “ Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberry” (darn number 5 again)
Merry Christmas!
BOF,
My wife has a pretty good list built up too.
Fortunately, she'll usually only share it with me.
My wife has a pretty good list built up too.
Fortunately, she'll usually only share it with me.
As in any occupation, there are good and there are bad. The situation can be more complicated in big football areas, where sometimes a football asst. coach is "volunteered" to coach baseball whether he wants to or not, and whether or not he has the qualifications.
Goodness knows, however, none of the HS coaches are in it for the money.
If you have a good one, appreciate them that much more...
Goodness knows, however, none of the HS coaches are in it for the money.
If you have a good one, appreciate them that much more...
quote:I would like to nominate TR for the Bluto Blutarsky award for starting the most food fights on this site.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son.
quote:5. I may be many things, but insecure is not one of them.
me too .. at least I don't think so
I do appologize if I came across that way ...
I'll try to do better in the future ... if possible
sorry for the rant
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
BOF,
My wife has a pretty good list built up too.
Fortunately, she'll usually only share it with me.
It's the USUALLY
Now that we (I) have totally hijacked this thread I think Trojan-Skipper gave you the most succinct answer.
As you are probably aware, running a successful baseball program takes lots of people beyond the head coach. Since you were a pitcher, you probably know a lot about pitching. Offer to set up the schools pitching program from Frosh to Varsity, or find a place that you can make a difference to the program.
Everyone has the same objective find a spot where you can contribute the most and assist in getting him some support from others where he needs some help.
Good Luck!
As you are probably aware, running a successful baseball program takes lots of people beyond the head coach. Since you were a pitcher, you probably know a lot about pitching. Offer to set up the schools pitching program from Frosh to Varsity, or find a place that you can make a difference to the program.
Everyone has the same objective find a spot where you can contribute the most and assist in getting him some support from others where he needs some help.
Good Luck!
Since this thread has already been hijacked by the "you don't know nothing and every high school coach in the country knows more than you because they do and that is that and you are stupid even if you are in the MLB Hall of Fame you are a baseball stupid parent because you dare to question the competence of any High School Coach" crowd I have a simple question for discussion for the sane who wish to respond.
How are high school coaches selected in your state and are there any minimum competence or other requrements?
I will start with West Virginia. High School coaches are selected by the County superintendent who is usually, unless there is some point of controversy, rubber stamping the suggestion of the High School's Athletic Director. But there are some restrictions involved. First, any employee of the school system has priority over any person employed outside of the school system REGARDLESS OF TRAINING, BACKGROUND, OR ANYTHING ELSE. So anytime any parent/teacher wants to coach, they can boot out even the most long tenured coach who is not an employee of the school system (the only exception I know of being for registered *** offenders). That is it. They never had to play baseball, study baseball or "done their homework before taking the job". And I have seen it abused so many times by a parent/teacher it makes me sick. But West Virginia must be in the dark ages, right? I am certain you folks from other states can point out to me how the system of selection in your state is far superior, always fair and inevitably ends up with the most qualified person for the job, right?
TW344
How are high school coaches selected in your state and are there any minimum competence or other requrements?
I will start with West Virginia. High School coaches are selected by the County superintendent who is usually, unless there is some point of controversy, rubber stamping the suggestion of the High School's Athletic Director. But there are some restrictions involved. First, any employee of the school system has priority over any person employed outside of the school system REGARDLESS OF TRAINING, BACKGROUND, OR ANYTHING ELSE. So anytime any parent/teacher wants to coach, they can boot out even the most long tenured coach who is not an employee of the school system (the only exception I know of being for registered *** offenders). That is it. They never had to play baseball, study baseball or "done their homework before taking the job". And I have seen it abused so many times by a parent/teacher it makes me sick. But West Virginia must be in the dark ages, right? I am certain you folks from other states can point out to me how the system of selection in your state is far superior, always fair and inevitably ends up with the most qualified person for the job, right?
TW344
igball
If you don't even know where Tom House how can anyone debate with you---House is at USC not UCLA
If you don't even know where Tom House how can anyone debate with you---House is at USC not UCLA
thanks. i knew the mash potatoes were on their way.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
BOF
Who said I know sooooooooo much? YOU?
Another "Fool on the Hill" with a new name--or is it the same one ?
It is truly scarey when posters new numerous IDS to post behind the screen--those with confidenc ecan use their true ID and not multiples internet IDS---BOF you are one insecure individual
TR how can anyone debate with you if you can not spell.....
igball: got my vote
So if a kid goes to a camp at the college he committed to, and makes some minor adjustments to his swing as recommended at that camp, what does the kid do when HS coach (who never played HS ball)tells him that what he is doing now is incorrect?
