My only baseball-playing kid is a HS 2020, so I admit I don’t know much. But the advice to attend camps at the Ivies surprises me. If my son had already had some contact with an Ivy and gotten some real encouragement (more than just passing notice), then I guess I could see it. But otherwise, to invest in plane tickets, etc. in hopes of getting noticed by one school at their camp seems like an expensive gamble. Even if your kid has the tools, he could always have a bad day. (Yeah, that can happen at a showcase, too... ). I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits. Do others have a different opinion?
Chico Escuela posted:My only baseball-playing kid is a HS 2020, so I admit I don’t know much. But the advice to attend camps at the Ivies surprises me. If my son had already had some contact with an Ivy and gotten some real encouragement (more than just passing notice), then I guess I could see it. But otherwise, to invest in plane tickets, etc. in hopes of getting noticed by one school at their camp seems like an expensive gamble. Even if your kid has the tools, he could always have a bad day. (Yeah, that can happen at a showcase, too... ). I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits. Do others have a different opinion?
Hi Chico,
My son has gotten a ton of camp invites from all types of schools. He's a 2019 and ,as he's gotten older, the invites seem to be a bit more "serious" if that makes sense i.e. not as much looking like a form letter created from a list the schools from some marketing database. He's also been in touch with several coaches who have suggested that he come to one camp or another. Now I don't know what the actual numbers are but several of them have made it a point to mention that X number of current players attended one of their camps or "we recruited 4 players just out of our winter session alone," etc. This is still a marketing technique something akin to holding a raw steak in front of a hungry dog when it comes to dads and their baseball kid who wants to play at the next level but I'm sure there's some truth in there somewhere :-)
Also, sometimes there will be multiple schools represented at these and they're typically willing to divulge that information if you ask. It usually won't be a competing level school e.g. you won't have the University of Arkansas showing up at a Mizzou hosted camp. If the camp is hosted by a P5 D1 you'll see D2/D3/NAIA/Juco maybe.
All that said, we have been to a few specific school camps - either those of direct interest to my son, or convenient to our area. I can honestly say that I've felt each one has been worth something in the overall process by my son simply being able to interact with the coaches and players at the level he would like to play, and learning about a day in the life of a college baseball player firsthand. There has also been quite a bit of recruiting wisdom imparted at these and that was invaluable early in our process. Not all coaches deal with recruiting in exactly the same way so, if your son is interested in a particular set of schools, it's good to have a feel for how those coaches operate and prioritize.
We've gotten a few lately from the northeast but, to your point, it's not really feasible right now for me to catch a flight up to PA for a day unless my son gets an email, phone call, or text directly from the HC or RC saying we'd REALLY like to see you. My two cents.
I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.
If a player has very targeted colleges he's interested in, that's the exception to attend their individual camps. BUT, you've got to make sure the baseball skills are a possible match for that level of school. Position players need to show more reps and game actions to increase the comfort of a college coach to recruit them.
Similar to the Duke camp there are normally a few high academic D3's that coach the individual Ivy camps, as well as a GTown or Patriot colleges.
I think this is a way to improve chances for position players capable of playing Ivy. I would do this with my boys if I had to do it all over again.
(The exception to above is: you don't need to go to an individual D3 camp, you can be seen by them at HF or Showball, they're looking for video and email to indicate players interest, then they'll seek you out at the HF type event)
Gov posted:I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.
If a player has very targeted colleges he's interested in, that's the exception to attend their individual camps. BUT, you've got to make sure the baseball skills are a possible match for that level of school. Position players need to show more reps and game actions to increase the comfort of a college coach to recruit them.
Similar to the Duke camp there are normally a few high academic D3's that coach the individual Ivy camps, as well as a GTown or Patriot colleges.
I think this is a way to improve chances for position players capable of playing Ivy. I would do this with my boys if I had to do it all over again.
(The exception to above is: you don't need to go to an individual D3 camp, you can be seen by them at HF or Showball, they're looking for video and email to indicate players interest, then they'll seek you out at the HF type event)
If I had it to over again (that would potentially a great thread BTW), that would be one thing I'd do differently. That plus have someone outside the family sit down with Junior early in Sophomore year to tell him, "What you think are good grades are not in fact good grades, if you want to go to an elite college or university".
Great thread—thanks to all.
My son is a PO. I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers? (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)
And while I am at it, a couple of other questions: Do high academic D3s pay attention to players during the summer after their sophomore years, or do they generally wait? And any advice on what velo a pitcher needs to get interest from a U.Chicago/MIT/other school known much more for academic rather than athletic prowess? (I went to U.Chicago. While I was there, a Chicago Tribune columnist wrote that the school was known as a place where the male students had smaller biceps than their girlfriends’.)
...and I still wasn’t good enough to make the baseball team.
Chico Escuela posted:Great thread—thanks to all.
My son is a PO. I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers? (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)
My son is a 2018 PO. He attended multiple school camps and got offers from all but one of the schools he visited.
He was down to making a decision when a school we'd visited a lot stepped in at the last minute and asked him to come to another camp. I was pretty much done, their RC, HC and PC had seem him throw multiple times in games, at showcases and so on video. But son insisted — apparently they had some technology that measures spin rate and they wanted to see his stats on that. We went, they offered before the camp was over. They flat out said they wouldn't have offered if we hadn't done that last camp.
U. Chicago has a video of the 2018 Baseball team on their website. Take a look, what are your thoughts?
JCG posted:Gov posted:I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.
If a player has very targeted colleges he's interested in, that's the exception to attend their individual camps. BUT, you've got to make sure the baseball skills are a possible match for that level of school. Position players need to show more reps and game actions to increase the comfort of a college coach to recruit them.
Similar to the Duke camp there are normally a few high academic D3's that coach the individual Ivy camps, as well as a GTown or Patriot colleges.
I think this is a way to improve chances for position players capable of playing Ivy. I would do this with my boys if I had to do it all over again.
(The exception to above is: you don't need to go to an individual D3 camp, you can be seen by them at HF or Showball, they're looking for video and email to indicate players interest, then they'll seek you out at the HF type event)
If I had it to over again (that would potentially a great thread BTW), that would be one thing I'd do differently. That plus have someone outside the family sit down with Junior early in Sophomore year to tell him, "What you think are good grades are not in fact good grades, if you want to go to an elite college or university".
"What you think are good grades are not in fact good grades, if you want to go to an elite college or university".
Not to hijack thread (been meaning to start a thread on this) but the use of PG's self-reported academic info was key for this conversation. Being able to show Junior or one of my HS players what it takes academically to play college ball, much less HA college ball, is gone now that PG no longer allows access to players' self reported academic info. Their choice, their business, but it was a great motivator for at least one player I know to hit the weights AND the books.
Chico Escuela posted:Great thread—thanks to all.
My son is a PO. I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers? (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)
And while I am at it, a couple of other questions: Do high academic D3s pay attention to players during the summer after their sophomore years, or do they generally wait? And any advice on what velo a pitcher needs to get interest from a U.Chicago/MIT/other school known much more for academic rather than athletic prowess? (I went to U.Chicago. While I was there, a Chicago Tribune columnist wrote that the school was known as a place where the male students had smaller biceps than their girlfriends’.)
- Yes, consensus is with PO's for the individual camps matter less. UNLESS, it is a highly sought after college by your son.
- Emailing video and verified velo's in spring of HS Junior year suffices. The high academic D3's are hoping to snag players hoping for an Ivy spot, they are accustomed to being patient. They know the game, they won't waste time to early in the process.
- The high academic D3's hope to see you in June of incoming Senior summer, then they can follow you during the club summer tourney months. We saw JHopkins, few NESCACs at WWBA and Music City tourney's. They are still looking for baseball talent, just because they're D3 academic don't think all they care about are the academics.
- Velo: spoke with D3 academic coach last week - he said 83-85 is normal range with good command, with the occassional guy sitting north of 86. Look up draft picks from last year: Amherst P and maybe an MIT P, could be Scouting reports available online.
- Find out ahead of time which showcases or camps the targeted D3 will be at. Very key if considering June HF or Showball events, they sell out early. Inquire before the D3 starts their spring season, to increase chances of a timely response.
- Coach Fitz at UofChicago is a good guy, very relaxed, been around. His AC is the former HC at Northwestern...they're trying to build a program. They need to improve their indoor facilities.
Edit: If the colleges are easy for you to get to, their camps are a lot cheaper than the HF or Showball events, so why not? Especially if they're top schools of interest for your son.
Iowamom23 posted:Chico Escuela posted:Great thread—thanks to all.
My son is a PO. I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers? (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)
My son is a 2018 PO. He attended multiple school camps and got offers from all but one of the schools he visited.
He was down to making a decision when a school we'd visited a lot stepped in at the last minute and asked him to come to another camp. I was pretty much done, their RC, HC and PC had seem him throw multiple times in games, at showcases and so on video. But son insisted — apparently they had some technology that measures spin rate and they wanted to see his stats on that. We went, they offered before the camp was over. They flat out said they wouldn't have offered if we hadn't done that last camp.
Good to know—thanks. Just wondering: were these mostly schools within driving distance of home? My son wants (at least for now) to go to school in a different part of the country. I’d like to minimize air travel. Although if I’m going to spend close to $300k on college anyhow, then another few grand for plane tickets is a good investment, I guess. Trying to figure out the smartest strategy for this...
BigTaco, thanks for the tip re: video of the current Maroons. Not sure I’m a qualified judge, but I will check that out later when I’m on an Internet connection fast enough for video. (And to be clear: I knew some very good athletes at Chicago. In many cases, they had made a conscious choice to focus on academics instead of sports in college. But nobody’s first thought about the school is “athletics.”)
My son was "recruited" to play at MIT (graduated HS in 2010). I use quotes because the "recruit" is weighed in the general admission pool; no coach pull or slots.
We visited during spring break junior year in response to an open offer to visit extended the previous summer at HF. Met and toured campus with RC and then son attended a game. Son said the kids were calculating the parabolic arc of the ball when one of the MIT players hit a dinger. The previous summer (rising junior) son was mid-low 80s.
Of all the schools we visited (dozens over time), MIT was the friendliest and most unusual. Both kids loved the atmosphere.
Son decided to pass because of the lack of an assured spot (RC had shared some really sad stories - like the kid who turned down a lowball Arizona offer only to get rejected at MIT). Because a kid is way out on a limb in waiting for admissions, if you apply to MIT, apply to many other schools. That having been said, I understand that MIT grads don't have much trouble finding decent jobs.
Looking back, high academic D3s do "soft" recuiting whenever they see a potential match in skills, academics and scores. Dozens of D3 coaches approached and spoke to my son during his HF and Stanford camps as a rising junior. (As an aside, the kids at these camps should have sealed envelopes with transcripts and scores.) The coaches are building relationships and nothing makes a potential recruit feel wanted then a coach remembering his name the following year. (Coach Frawley at Yale is a true master of this art.)
Goosegg: Wow, MIT is asking a lot. Do folks have any info about other D3 schools that take this approach? When schools are taking 10% or fewer of their applicants, it’s awfully tough to advise a kid to turn down a guaranteed place at another college in hopes the admissions office likes his file. MIT could fill its class a few times over with kids who have perfect grades and 1600 SATs, as could a number of other high academic schools. Is there a list somewhere of institutions that don’t give the nod to otherwise-qualified athletes?
My 2018 was very late to the recruiting game, and went to both Showball and HF showcases in August 2017. They were one after the other, on Long Island. My son much preferred HF. Better fields, better contact with coaches, better run drills, etc.. Keep in mind that he stunk it up at the plate at Showball and tore the cover off the ball at HF, as well as fielded well at SS/OF, and showed off his sub 7.0/60 speed, and his 90+mph OF arm. That biased him towards HF, I think. He had a 3.6 GPA with a rigorous schedule(coaches don't care, admissions do) and a 33 ACT.
He had already been in contact with a few schools prior to the showcases, but this was the first time that they had seen him in person. After the showcases, he had multiple contacts both from coaches that he had alerted of his presence beforehand, and ones he had never contacted. Off the top of my head, there was Carleton, Macalester, U of Chicago, Wesleyan, Middlebury, McGill, Stevens(I think?), Swarthmore and a few more. There was slight interest from Davidson, some school in VA, Dartmouth, and Columbia in the D1 camp.
On top of that he had interest from schools with lesser academics in the D2's/JC's, although it's hard to determine where they got their info from. Grapevine?
When you leave it late like we did, it gets to be very hard to make all the camp invitations, as they take place in a condensed time in the fall, before the ED dates in November. A couple of schools lost interest when he told them he couldn't make their camps because of his schedule...he was also playing Fall ball for a very good traveling team that he had committed to, and, because he was looking at some really good schools, and had to keep his marks up. Made for a stressful fall, and would've been very expensive if he had followed up on all the camp invites.
All turned out well, as he ended up at a school that he really, really, likes, but I believe that if he had any chance at playing D1(not a big concern on his part) he would've had to have started earlier than he did. Many coaches there indicated that he could play at mid/low level D1's, but we didn't have the time, money, and energy to chase down every option out there. I firmly believe that if he was 6'2"+ rather than his 5'9" on tippy toes then he would have had more interest. He already had schools indicating interest in converting him to P because of his arm strength, but for every one of those there were two schools whose eyes glazed over once they realized his height.
Overall, I am a big believer in the Academic camps, and especially HF, if your player is academically inclined. Zero sleazeball factor. As a Dad, I acted as a go between/lackey for my kid at times to let coaches know where and when they could meet, but otherwise I stayed out of things, unless I knew the coach a bit already and we were on friendly terms. Even then, I was highly conscious of not being "that Dad".
Can anyone tell me whether I am more likely to find Dartmouth at HF or Showball? Right now I see the other Ivies well represented at all sessions of both. But Dartmouth is at one or two westcoast sessions of Showball (I am on the east coast) and not at all at HF. Ms. Chico went to Dartmouth, so it's a fairly important question in my household. Any idea why the Big Green aren't showing up at more showcases?
I know they go to the AZ Jr. Fall Classic. That's a bit further east!
it could be that they are not done with their showcase schedule yet. I will say, in the last three years, I don't think Dartmouth has been to HF, and as you probably know they're not yet on the schedule this year.
Dartmouth was at the August HF on Long Island last year.
good to know. Was not at HF events in California.
Chico Escuela posted:Can anyone tell me whether I am more likely to find Dartmouth at HF or Showball? Right now I see the other Ivies well represented at all sessions of both. But Dartmouth is at one or two westcoast sessions of Showball (I am on the east coast) and not at all at HF. Ms. Chico went to Dartmouth, so it's a fairly important question in my household. Any idea why the Big Green aren't showing up at more showcases?
Dartmouth AC Evan Wells is very responsive. Your son should be reaching out directly to him right now to find out where the Dartmouth Coaches will be.
Last year, we saw Dartmouth at: PC at Nov HF, AC Wells at Stanford Camp and AZ Fall Classic, AC Wells at PG WWBA, Dart HC at Showball Head Coaches Camp. Where the coaches were last year says nothing about where they will be this year, the coaches constantly refine the showcases they'll attend.
Evan Wells is no longer at Dartmouth but Gov’s point remains the same. Reach out to the current coaches. They may be able to be specific about dates and places.
Jonathan Anderson was the point of contact when my 2015 was looking at Dartmouth. He went to a number of events including Showball. He was the coach who did the "write-up" for my son and was in the dugout December of his sophomore year at Showball. He's still active w/ Dartmouth and website says recruiting is part of his responsibilities. He was the one that we talked to most at Junior Days and wanted son's schedule and transcript. I would say he's the #2 under Coach Whalen.
Ripken Fan posted:Jonathan Anderson was the point of contact when my 2015 was looking at Dartmouth. He went to a number of events including Showball. He was the coach who did the "write-up" for my son and was in the dugout December of his junior year at Showball. He's still active w/ Dartmouth and website says recruiting is part of his responsibilities. He was the one that we talked to most at Junior Days and wanted son's schedule and transcript. I would say he's the #2 under Coach Whalen.
I think Anderson was responsive to emails as well. I didn't realize Wells had moved on.....
Thanks to all. The Dartmouth web site has detailed instructions about the info they want from potential recruits. I will remind Chico, Jr. (again) that he needs to get in contact. It would be nice if Dartmouth joins all the other Ivies at HF this year. One-stop shopping (and cheaper)...
If I had to do it all over again I would choose HF & Targeted school camps. It used to be the Ivies had unwritten rule of no recruiting until Junior year. (2.5 yrs of grades and early test scores). Upenn changed that & now the Ivies are actively hunting P's earlier. Son went to Columbia, Lehigh, Yale, Dartmouth Upenn , Fordham over 3 years. Columbia (Best Run) Dartmouth (By far worst). He played for a well known travel team and had 2 offers from D1 schools from Virginia. He wasnt interested based on location & still looking Ivy. He needed to improve SAT. Attended HF in August on Long Island. Very pleasurable and he got a ton of contacts. Wooster, Kenyon, Wesleyan (CT) were at forefront. StevensTech & Muhlenberg in mix. I was impressed with the HF process. He chose a school with a 63k price tag, but gave him ALOT of Merit based Aid.
Final thoughts: Ivy contention if You have a 3.9 & min 1320 SAT. I think this is will keep your kids file active.
Grades & Test Scores Count: Grades from Freshman Year thru Senior year count bigtime. Invest in SAT Test Prep classes. Best investment / ROI
HF Price Tag is pricey but worth it.
DO NOT GO TO A SHOWCASE OR CAMP UNTIL JUNIOR IS READY. My son was small freshman year 5'6" & no where near physically where he needed to be. Impressions from coaches are hard to change. This was my fault. By summer of 2017 My son was a completely different person from previous 2 years.
Hope this helps & these are my thoughts based on our experiences.
Waffles&icecream posted:
DO NOT GO TO A SHOWCASE OR CAMP UNTIL JUNIOR IS READY. My son was small freshman year 5'6" & no where near physically where he needed to be. Impressions from coaches are hard to change. This was my fault. By summer of 2017 My son was a completely different person from previous 2 years.
Great post--thanks. And brings up something I have been wondering about: I know every kid develops differently and no one can offer a truly informed opinion without seeing someone play, but I have been cogitating over whether to take my 2020 to HF this August, or wait until next year (after his junior season). His goal is high academic: Ivy or a handful of D1s, or else probably D3. Son is a RHP. He's 6'0 and 190 lbs., unlikely to get taller but just got into lifting and serious training this winter and his coaches say there is a fair amount of untapped potential there. Currently sits around 83 mph; by August expects/hopes to be 85+.
1) Is son likely to attract any interest from Ivies or other high academic D1s in August 2018. (That is, would they put him on their list to check out in 2019?) 2) Would a trip to HF this year have any value otherwise--say by getting some early notice from D3s? 3) Would HF in 2018 have any potential downside (other than the cost)? Is it better to wait until son is throwing harder? I have some time to decide, but August HF seems to fill up by early summer.
I would wait for oct or Nov HF event. I think he may get lost in shuffle in the late summer one, as most of those kids are gonna be seniors. Just my 2 cents.
Chico,
I know baseball has been very, very good to you! ;-)
My two cents....let's assume your son has the academic chops to get into Dartmouth or any Ivy. Big assumption, but let's go with it for now. The quickest way to get an Ivy's attention is for your son to get attention of other D1 mid-majors thereby proving he has the necessary skills & talent and is "fishing in the right pond". If a handful of mid-major D1s show interest and begin offering then it is just a matter of him getting the right SATs/ACTs and some exposure to get the Ivy coaches support through Admissions. If you look at the majority of Ivy starters or guys that are getting significant playing time, I'll guarantee you that they've been offered at other D1 mid-majors. These are the guys that have recruiting leverage because they have something coaches want.
I wanted to give you another perspective to consider. Make sense? Good luck.
I'd think about AZ JR Fall Classic Academic game. ( there are multiple threads here on the topic) It's well-represented by Ivies, and would give your kid a little more time, and put the kid pretty square into the current recruiting class for those schools. Logistically it may be a little tricky as you probably won't have to cut a non-refundable check right now, but your son would need to find a team that's going.
fenwaysouth posted:Chico,
I know baseball has been very, very good to you! ;-)
My two cents....let's assume your son has the academic chops to get into Dartmouth or any Ivy. Big assumption, but let's go with it for now. The quickest way to get an Ivy's attention is for your son to get attention of other D1 mid-majors thereby proving he has the necessary skills & talent and is "fishing in the right pond". If a handful of mid-major D1s show interest and begin offering then it is just a matter of him getting the right SATs/ACTs and some exposure to get the Ivy coaches support through Admissions. If you look at the majority of Ivy starters or guys that are getting significant playing time, I'll guarantee you that they've been offered at other D1 mid-majors. These are the guys that have recruiting leverage because they have something coaches want.
I wanted to give you another perspective to consider. Make sense? Good luck.
This is an important point and I think worth some thread drift.
While there are certainly some high-academic D3 players who could play for some Ivy or other D1 programs, and maybe even be impact players, Ivy league teams have more in common with other D1 teams than they do with high academic D3 teams. For example, last weekend California, IMO a very solid Pac 12 team, swept 4 games from Brown, but 3 of those 4 games were one-run games - one was on a walk off. The same Cal team played Oregon State, the #1 team in the nation this past weekend, and were swept, but two games were decided by a total of 3 runs, and the third game was a one-run game through 7. But for a few key errors they could have won 2 out of 3. My long winded point is that Brown and OSU are not that far apart. Having seen those three teams, play, as well as having seen some hi-ac d3's play this year, I'm pretty darn confident that the D3 teams ARE that far apart from Brown.
As far as that relates to Chico Jr, to be totally honest, until and unless he gets his velo substantially higher he's probably better off fishing in the D3 pond.
Chico:
It's really a tough decision on when to send a player to HF summer- especially if looking at High Academic D1s/Ivies. Son went to HF the summer before junior year, just as your son is positioned to do. He had done some showcases previously and HF (and Showball Magacamps in December) were the events which had the highest # of schools that showed interest in him and he was vetting. He had something to show (top 60-time), and many of these schools had video and transcripts. My son is a position player, who showcased as a MI/CF.
For some schools on his list at the time (e.g. Bucknell), their focus was on the year previous to his--they really weren't looking until September to turn the page and look at his graduation year. Son was looking at the Ivy League, and I think had HF been "the event", August as a rising senior would be too late for D1/Ivy. The D3s at HF even early showed interest, though with their timetables, HF rising senior is right as decisions are starting then, after a number of D1s have filled rosters.
Fenway's point in bold print, was spot on; my son and I saw it first hand. After ranked Big State U. offered my son, the timetable for where he would eventually commit accelerated. Good luck to you and Chico Jr!
[good to know someone out there remembers the original Chico Escuela]
Thanks all. A wealth of useful info and much appreciated. I guess I will wait out the HS season, or at least until HF August sessions get close to full, before Chico Jr. and I make any decisions. I also will do some research about the AZ All-Academic game, which looks interesting (although we are on the east coast).
Jr. is my youngest, so I have seen the college application meat grinder up close before, but not with a potential athlete. From what I saw, if you have the requisite grades and test scores at the Ivies and other top academic schools, then you go into a pool with about a 5-10% chance of admission. Once in that 5% pool, then if you have won a Nobel Prize (or at least a Westinghouse), or there is a building on campus named after a grandparent, then you can feel fairly confident. But D1 athletes are almost assured admission so long as they make the standards for the 5-10% pool, and D3 sometimes offers athletes a leg up. Chico Jr. is much more likely to throw a 90 mph fastball than win a Physics Nobel. Might as well aim high, but I know there are lots of great colleges out there outside D1 (I went to one).
Just after I hit "post," I got an email from HF in response to one I sent them. The email says they see a roughly 40-25-25-10% split between rising seniors, juniors, sophomores and freshmen, respectively. Thought that might be useful info for others also.
Chico Escuela posted:..................................................................................
Jr. is my youngest, so I have seen the college application meat grinder up close before, but not with a potential athlete. From what I saw, if you have the requisite grades and test scores at the Ivies and other top academic schools, then you go into a pool with about a 5-10% chance of admission. Once in that 5% pool, then if you have won a Nobel Prize (or at least a Westinghouse), or there is a building on campus named after a grandparent, then you can feel fairly confident. But D1 athletes are almost assured admission so long as they make the standards for the 5-10% pool, and D3 sometimes offers athletes a leg up. Chico Jr. is much more likely to throw a 90 mph fastball than win a Physics Nobel. Might as well aim high, but I know there are lots of great colleges out there outside D1 (I went to one).
Chico - To further clarify, Ivy athletes have a "leg up" and don't have to come through the "front door" with regular admissions where it is most competitive 5-15% admissions rate. As long as an Ivy recruit's academics are within 2 standard deviations of the incoming class there is a potential "admissions side door" with coach support through ED admissions. If the ED recruits academics are on par with the incoming class his or her chances are really, really good. For an Ivy recruit, understanding this balance of where you stand academically and athletically is incredibly important. Those folks that have lived through this process can tell you about all the sleep they've lost thinking about this stuff! ;-)
That may indeed be the HF split but because ANYONE can pay and go, I have skepticism about those percentages. There are quite a few dreamers there (guys who have not given up the dream to play collegiately, or maybe parents who have not given up, and do not have the requisite skills). I'm not saying they are all seniors, but the numbers are not meaningful as the split is not the same thing as boys who received offers because of HF.
Of course it really just depends on your checkbook, and your son's skillset. As others have mentioned as a position player, it helps to get in front of targeted coaches more than once. As others have mentioned, Ivies have accelerated their timetables, and while they may still be looking in July (used to be August only but HF put in an east coast earlier date because Showball was eating their lunch), they pretty much know who they want by then and have many if not most slots filled. Asterisk if your kid is throwing 90+ though.
Son #2 went rising junior and again rising senior year. Both helped his recruitment in different ways. We saw a freshman there my son's rising senior year who threw high 80's but also saw a senior who threw 70's. Believe it or not both got commitments.
Annnnd Showball now says Dartmouth HC Whalen is coming to their Aug. 7-8 camp in New York. Man, when you ask a question on this site, you really get results.
Both are very good.
In my opinion the best is I95 Metro Baseball.
Big reason? 1 FIELD. EVERY coach watched my kid. Plus the stadium adds to it.
Reviving this thread for two reasons (I hope folks don't mind):
1) Upthread a ways, someone asked if the new NCAA rule prohibiting "recruiting conversations" with D1s prior to Sept 1 of Junior year was affecting HF and Showball as opportunities for underclassmen to gain exposure. My 2020 son just finished a HF showcase. I have no experience from prior to the rule change, but I can say my son and I thought HF was great and he got a lot out of it. Players who have not passed the magic Sept. 1 mark were pretty much limited to introducing themselves to a coach and giving a few brief words about why they were interested in his school. That probably has very little recruiting value, but Son got the experience of having to approach and introduce himself to coaches, which was great. Post-HF, my son has heard from a few D1s with lightly personalized camp invites that say the coach saw him at HF. My sense is that schools generally aren't doing more than than that for players younger than 2019.
Keep in mind that the new rule does not apply to D3s, which are most of the schools at HF. I don't think D3s generally recruit players prior to the summer of their junior year anyhow, but at least D3 coaches didn't have to be on guard to avoid potential infractions of the new regime. My son told me some D1 coaches actually said words to the effect of "I don't want to seem rude, but I'm very limited in what I can talk with you about."
All in all, HF was a great experience for my 2020. I assume he will do HF or Showball in the fall when he is past the Sept. 1 mark, and probably next summer, too--and when he does those, I think he will be more relaxed because he knows what to expect and has some idea what the competition is like. HF also did a very good job explaining recruiting and inspiring teenaged boys to actively direct their own efforts to play college baseball.
2) My son is a PO, so he threw two innings on HF Day 1 and three innings on Day 2. ("Inning" here meaning he faced six batters, each of which started with a 1-1 count.) That came to about 115 pitches over two days, including 40+ on day 1. Not what Dr. Andrews would recommend and the boy had a sore arm, but he seems to be OK.
Showball's web site says that they have pitchers throw a bullpen in front of coaches on Day 1, then pitch in two games on Day 2. Coaches are watching all three sessions, so kids are going to try to throw hard. That means my kid would pitch not only on consecutive days, but three times in two days. I know it's just for the one weekend, but am I wrong to be concerned? Anyone else have experience with this that they can share please?
Chico Escuela posted:Reviving this thread for two reasons (I hope folks don't mind):
1) Upthread a ways, someone asked if the new NCAA rule prohibiting "recruiting conversations" with D1s prior to Sept 1 of Junior year was affecting HF and Showball as opportunities for underclassmen to gain exposure. My 2020 son just finished a HF showcase. I have no experience from prior to the rule change, but I can say my son and I thought HF was great and he got a lot out of it. Players who have not passed the magic Sept. 1 mark were pretty much limited to introducing themselves to a coach and giving a few brief words about why they were interested in his school. That probably has very little recruiting value, but Son got the experience of having to approach and introduce himself to coaches, which was great. Post-HF, my son has heard from a few D1s with lightly personalized camp invites that say the coach saw him at HF. My sense is that schools generally aren't doing more than than that for players younger than 2019.
Keep in mind that the new rule does not apply to D3s, which are most of the schools at HF. I don't think D3s generally recruit players prior to the summer of their junior year anyhow, but at least D3 coaches didn't have to be on guard to avoid potential infractions of the new regime. My son told me some D1 coaches actually said words to the effect of "I don't want to seem rude, but I'm very limited in what I can talk with you about."
All in all, HF was a great experience for my 2020. I assume he will do HF or Showball in the fall when he is past the Sept. 1 mark, and probably next summer, too--and when he does those, I think he will be more relaxed because he knows what to expect and has some idea what the competition is like. HF also did a very good job explaining recruiting and inspiring teenaged boys to actively direct their own efforts to play college baseball.
2) My son is a PO, so he threw two innings on HF Day 1 and three innings on Day 2. ("Inning" here meaning he faced six batters, each of which started with a 1-1 count.) That came to about 115 pitches over two days, including 40+ on day 1. Not what Dr. Andrews would recommend and the boy had a sore arm, but he seems to be OK.
Showball's web site says that they have pitchers throw a bullpen in front of coaches on Day 1, then pitch in two games on Day 2. Coaches are watching all three sessions, so kids are going to try to throw hard. That means my kid would pitch not only on consecutive days, but three times in two days. I know it's just for the one weekend, but am I wrong to be concerned? Anyone else have experience with this that they can share please?
I share your concern. 2019 did HF in CA in June and that was fine - 1 inning 1st day, 2 consecutive innings 2nd day. That's fine. We saw Showball's schdule laid out as you described, and son's concern was heating back up for game 2 after having thrown in game 1 earlier, plus the max effort (radar gun) bullpen the day before. So that is the major reason he is doing HF again in Aug on Long Island. Just hoping MIT coach is there for that Aug 6-7 session to follow up on their meeting in CA. Thanks for the thread - always helpful to come on here for info and perspective.
My son did HF Session 1 in CA (1 inning on day 1 and 2 innings on day 2 -- perhaps 25 pitches on day 1 and 50 on day 2) and was scheduled to attend Showball in NY. I had the same concern so I called Showball and worked out with them the following schedule -- no bullpen on day 1, and on day 2 they agreed to have him pitch the last two innings of the first game, and the first two innings of the second game. So, essentially, 4 innings in a row.
With any of the camps, you are the paying customer, your son should do as much (or as little) as you feel comfortable with. Another example: my son skipped the medicine ball throw, shuttle runs, and vertical jump testing for pitchers on day 1 at HF. IMO, that testing wasn't likely to improve the likelihood that he would pitch his best in the late afternoon game, so he skipped it.
