Headfirst vs Showball

I'll start.

Not sure that travel and accomodations would be so similar. On the plus side for HF, hotels around Woodland are not too expensive.  On the minus side, it's not easy finding non-stops to the Sacramento airport, so you may find yourself flying into OAK or SFO, which could mean a 2+ hour drive to the venue.  SF State (Showball) is close to both airports, but hotels will be more expensive.

My 2017 did HF at a different Sac area venue almost 2 years ago, and it was a great experience. Very well run, lots of reps, lots of very engaged coaches. I could quibble about a few things, and I could bitch about the heat and lack of shade, but overall it was a very solid and I'm glad we went.

Looks like Showball knows what they're doing too, and at a glance their list of coaches is more interesting. But the venue only has one field.  That's a bit concerning in terms of reps. OTOH Woodland has 3 fields, and that's concerning in terms of getting eyes on your player.

As long as the coaches you want to see are there and know to look for your kid, you probably can't go wrong.

JCG - Thanks so much for the insight! Direct flights for us are not really an issue because they're not really an option unless we're going to Dallas, Memphis, Atlanta, St. Louis or Houston. There's a running joke where we are that to get to Heaven you'd have to go through Dallas so I'm not too concerned about getting to Sacramento without a connection. The tip about the hotels though is definitely something to consider. Also, I don't suspect the heat in Sac is going to phase us too much considering what summer baseball is like in our area :-)

The number of fields is definitely a factor so we'll just have to make sure to stay in touch with our coaches of interest and hope for the best. Again, I appreciate the input!

I'll chime in here to say my 2019 son did both HF (August in NY) and Showball Head Coaches (November in FL).  They were both fantastic, professional and well managed.  I agree with JCG, you won't go wrong.  

A few observations from my son's experience:

1) My son was noticed at both events, with follow-up from coaches (again, you can't go wrong)  

2) HF was a mix of RCs and HCs whereas Showball was ALL head coaches.  In many cases, my son was seen by the RC at HF and the HC at Showball so they both got to know him a bit.  With the four schools who seem most interested in him, the HC is the one communicating with him most (I don't know if that's good or bad).

3) Coaches seemed more accessible at HF than Showball, however and son was able to talk to more coaches at HF, whereas Showball had a session where they could go talk to coaches the first day but not as many opportunities to have time to talk

Good luck to your son!

At Showball you play a double header on the second day, on one adjacent field you have half the coaches watching you, then in the next game you switch fields and are playing with the other half of the coaches watching you.  All Coaches see you play in a game.  It's a faster pace, not much standing around for anyone.  Very efficient.

At Headfirst all the coaches will not necessarily see you play in a game.  They're all divided on four fields playing at the same time, they'll rotate.  Even if a coach is aware you're there, you could be playing when he's assigned on the field in another game.  They'll normally leave for a few minutes to watch you, but no guarantee you are up to bat and get a solid hit at that time, or getting a ground ball at your IF postion.  Less probability of seeing game actions being seen by the school you're really interested in.  If somehow a coach is really really interested in you, via video or being previously seen, he will make sure he sees you no matter what.

I thought coaches were equally accessable at both venues.

HF has more D3 coaches.  Showball has one summer and now, a fall event where there are all HC's attending.  

HF might have had a bit more refinement to it, and Showball sacrificing some of that in order to move everybody along efficiently. You want your game actions to be seen, my preference was Showball.

Edit: Yale's Frawley only goes to Headfirst. Amherst's Hamm prefers Showball.

corrected Frawley goes to HF

Tequila - is your son taking the ACT again?  The D3’s offer support through admissions, it will be helpful with the higher academic ones for his ACT  to be near the middle 50 % of accepted ACT scores.  Ex:  Johns Hopkins is 32-34, coaches make it clear they need a min 32 to get their support (there are exceptions in certain years). Not sure what level D3 your son is thinking about.  

Gov posted:

At Showball you play a double header on the second day, on one adjacent field you have half the coaches watching you, then in the next game you switch fields and are playing with the other half of the coaches watching you.  All Coaches see you play in a game.  It's a faster pace, not much standing around for anyone.  Very efficient.

At Headfirst all the coaches will not necessarily see you play in a game.  They're all divided on four fields playing at the same time, they'll rotate.  Even if a coach is aware you're there, you could be playing when he's assigned on the field in another game.  They'll normally leave for a few minutes to watch you, but no guarantee you are up to bat and get a solid hit at that time, or getting a ground ball at your IF postion.  Less probability of seeing game actions being seen by the school you're really interested in.  If somehow a coach is really really interested in you, via video or being previously seen, he will make sure he sees you no matter what.

I thought coaches were equally accessable at both venues.

HF has more D3 coaches.  Showball has one summer and now, a fall event where there are all HC's attending.  

HF might have had a bit more refinement to it, and Showball sacrificing some of that in order to move everybody along efficiently. You want your game actions to be seen, my preference was Showball.

Edit: Yale's Frawley only goes to Showball.  Amherst's Hamm prefers Showball.

Gov my 2019 was at Headfirst in New York last August and Coach Frawley was there - I attended a recruiting info session were he led the discussion.  I remember him b/c he is very outgoing and has a dynamic personality.  Not sure about any other session of HF, but he was there for our session.

Gov posted:

Tequila - is your son taking the ACT again?  The D3’s offer support through admissions, it will be helpful with the higher academic ones for his ACT  to be near the middle 50 % of accepted ACT scores.  Ex:  Johns Hopkins is 32-34, coaches make it clear they need a min 32 to get their support (there are exceptions in certain years). Not sure what level D3 your son is thinking about.  

 

Hi Gov, he took the ACT again a couple of weeks ago, will take it in April, and probably one other time based on what those results turn out to be. D3 programs of immediate interest for him right now include Pomona-Pitzer, Chapman, and Trinity (CT). He's got some D2s (and a couple of mid-low D1s) he's looking at, and even had coach communications with, as well but it seems the overall fit keeps coming back to higher academic D3. We've got his requirements/preferences pretty locked in, from an overall desired experience perspective, but suffice it to say that high ranked liberal arts schools in, or near, a metropolitan area are very high on the list. Thanks for all your insight!

"Edit: Yale's Frawley only goes to Showball.  Amherst's Hamm prefers Showball."

Frawley is listed as being at the HF we're looking at just FYI.

Qhead posted:

Gov posted:

At Showball you play a double header on the second day, on one adjacent field you have half the coaches watching you, then in the next game you switch fields and are playing with the other half of the coaches watching you.  All Coaches see you play in a game.  It's a faster pace, not much standing around for anyone.  Very efficient.

At Headfirst all the coaches will not necessarily see you play in a game.  They're all divided on four fields playing at the same time, they'll rotate.  Even if a coach is aware you're there, you could be playing when he's assigned on the field in another game.  They'll normally leave for a few minutes to watch you, but no guarantee you are up to bat and get a solid hit at that time, or getting a ground ball at your IF postion.  Less probability of seeing game actions being seen by the school you're really interested in.  If somehow a coach is really really interested in you, via video or being previously seen, he will make sure he sees you no matter what.

I thought coaches were equally accessable at both venues.

HF has more D3 coaches.  Showball has one summer and now, a fall event where there are all HC's attending.  

HF might have had a bit more refinement to it, and Showball sacrificing some of that in order to move everybody along efficiently. You want your game actions to be seen, my preference was Showball.

Edit: Yale's Frawley only goes to Showball.  Amherst's Hamm prefers Showball.

Gov my 2019 was at Headfirst in New York last August and Coach Frawley was there - I attended a recruiting info session were he led the discussion.  I remember him b/c he is very outgoing and has a dynamic personality.  Not sure about any other session of HF, but he was there for our session.

Oops - typo and apologize!!  Frawley goes to HF, Hamm goes to Showball.

tequila posted:

"Edit: Yale's Frawley only goes to Showball.  Amherst's Hamm prefers Showball."

Frawley is listed as being at the HF we're looking at just FYI.

That’s what I meant to write, my error.  Appreciate you guys catching that 

Similar question for my son's summer schedule. He is a 2019 P/corner IF. 6'2", 195. Low 80's FB, w/good control and secondary stuff. Pop in bat (86 exit velo). 1560 SAT 4.0 GPA, 1520 PSAT (perfect score). He is late getting on the recruiting scene due to an arm injury last year. He had surgery last Sept and went to the Harvard camp a few weeks ago and is back to form playing HS ball this spring. We are in PA but booked for HF in CA June 26-27. It will be part baseball, part college visits, part family vacation. Looking to fill out the rest of the summer with showcases/camps and not currently playing on a team other than potentially Legion to stay in shape and sharp. Thoughts on that approach?

Considering the following showcases/camps:

- Showball, ASBA Academic in July, Perfect Game Academic in FL, Duke's Camp in August, Baseball America (Top 96), maybe HF again on Long Island in Aug

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been there before. 

2019&21 Dad posted:

Similar question for my son's summer schedule. He is a 2019 P/corner IF. 6'2", 195. Low 80's FB, w/good control and secondary stuff. Pop in bat (86 exit velo). 1560 SAT 4.0 GPA, 1520 PSAT (perfect score). He is late getting on the recruiting scene due to an arm injury last year. He had surgery last Sept and went to the Harvard camp a few weeks ago and is back to form playing HS ball this spring. We are in PA but booked for HF in CA June 26-27. It will be part baseball, part college visits, part family vacation. Looking to fill out the rest of the summer with showcases/camps and not currently playing on a team other than potentially Legion to stay in shape and sharp. Thoughts on that approach?

Considering the following showcases/camps:

- Showball, ASBA Academic in July, Perfect Game Academic in FL, Duke's Camp in August, Baseball America (Top 96), maybe HF again on Long Island in Aug

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been there before. 

Based on my 2017's experience, he would have had plenty of good D3 options had he done just one event, so yes, I think your approach can work fine. (And obviously even Roy Hobbs can have a bad weekend so scheduling more than one event is wise.)

2019&21 Dad posted:

Similar question for my son's summer schedule. He is a 2019 P/corner IF. 6'2", 195. Low 80's FB, w/good control and secondary stuff. Pop in bat (86 exit velo). 1560 SAT 4.0 GPA, 1520 PSAT (perfect score). He is late getting on the recruiting scene due to an arm injury last year. He had surgery last Sept and went to the Harvard camp a few weeks ago and is back to form playing HS ball this spring. We are in PA but booked for HF in CA June 26-27. It will be part baseball, part college visits, part family vacation. Looking to fill out the rest of the summer with showcases/camps and not currently playing on a team other than potentially Legion to stay in shape and sharp. Thoughts on that approach?

Considering the following showcases/camps:

- Showball, ASBA Academic in July, Perfect Game Academic in FL, Duke's Camp in August, Baseball America (Top 96), maybe HF again on Long Island in Aug

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been there before. 

How is his baseball skill?  Any PG grade, or accolades via PBR?  He's got the grades, and nice size for being a P or corner IF, how's the glove?  How's the speed?  Keep getting the exit velo stronger and becoming a better hitter.  Spring HS ball should get him good reps, but the downtime between that and showcases could be concerning due to not seeing decent pitching to hit against.  The showcases will have Pitchers of all levels - 80-92FB, he has to make sure he's timed up so that he gives himself a chance while in front of the college coaches. 

 Has he been on a competitive summer club team?  While grades are great, don't forget these are baseball coaches trying to recruit the best possible players for their college.  Whether it's Harvard or Amherst, they want players, that happen to have the grades and scores.

Does he work with a throwing guy?  With his size and weight along with refined mechanics should make him more projectable.  There's time for him to continue to refine.

I think multiple HF camps (June and July) could be good, giving himself repeated chances in front of the same coaches.  Duke Camp in August as an incoming senior is very late for a power conf college, unless he's RHP throwing 90+ with command, or a great glove corner launching bombs out of the park.  Duke picks up their last cherry picks at the PG WWBA and similar tournaments where the prospects are high level late bloomer pitchers, or high level hitters hitting advanced pitching. Same for other high academic D1's.  Georgetown and Columbia were still looking for two power hitting corner players at the PG WWBA and the Showball HC event the past July.  Harvard held off making some formal offers until their early August Camp.  The Ivy camps always have 4-6 other college coaches attending (normally D3's and Patriot D1's).  Princeton HC feeds some players he likes but has no room for to GTown HC.  

You need to find a way to stay in top baseball shape in between showcases.  Def more thoughts on this, but gotta run, hopefully no typos here.... 

tequila posted:

Gov posted:

Tequila - is your son taking the ACT again?  The D3’s offer support through admissions, it will be helpful with the higher academic ones for his ACT  to be near the middle 50 % of accepted ACT scores.  Ex:  Johns Hopkins is 32-34, coaches make it clear they need a min 32 to get their support (there are exceptions in certain years). Not sure what level D3 your son is thinking about.  

 

Hi Gov, he took the ACT again a couple of weeks ago, will take it in April, and probably one other time based on what those results turn out to be. D3 programs of immediate interest for him right now include Pomona-Pitzer, Chapman, and Trinity (CT). He's got some D2s (and a couple of mid-low D1s) he's looking at, and even had coach communications with, as well but it seems the overall fit keeps coming back to higher academic D3. We've got his requirements/preferences pretty locked in, from an overall desired experience perspective, but suffice it to say that high ranked liberal arts schools in, or near, a metropolitan area are very high on the list. Thanks for all your insight!

Have your son find out directly from Pomona HC what showcases or camps he'll be attending, same with Trinity (HC is awesome).  Pomona coach very direct with his academic requirements.  With Trinity your son is good now.

Gov posted:

2019&21 Dad posted:

Similar question for my son's summer schedule. He is a 2019 P/corner IF. 6'2", 195. Low 80's FB, w/good control and secondary stuff. Pop in bat (86 exit velo). 1560 SAT 4.0 GPA, 1520 PSAT (perfect score). He is late getting on the recruiting scene due to an arm injury last year. He had surgery last Sept and went to the Harvard camp a few weeks ago and is back to form playing HS ball this spring. We are in PA but booked for HF in CA June 26-27. It will be part baseball, part college visits, part family vacation. Looking to fill out the rest of the summer with showcases/camps and not currently playing on a team other than potentially Legion to stay in shape and sharp. Thoughts on that approach?

Considering the following showcases/camps:

- Showball, ASBA Academic in July, Perfect Game Academic in FL, Duke's Camp in August, Baseball America (Top 96), maybe HF again on Long Island in Aug

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been there before. 

How is his baseball skill?  Any PG grade, or accolades via PBR?  He's got the grades, and nice size for being a P or corner IF, how's the glove?  How's the speed?  Keep getting the exit velo stronger and becoming a better hitter.  Spring HS ball should get him good reps, but the downtime between that and showcases could be concerning due to not seeing decent pitching to hit against.  The showcases will have Pitchers of all levels - 80-92FB, he has to make sure he's timed up so that he gives himself a chance while in front of the college coaches. 

 Has he been on a competitive summer club team?  While grades are great, don't forget these are baseball coaches trying to recruit the best possible players for their college.  Whether it's Harvard or Amherst, they want players, that happen to have the grades and scores.

Does he work with a throwing guy?  With his size and weight along with refined mechanics should make him more projectable.  There's time for him to continue to refine.

I think multiple HF camps (June and July) could be good, giving himself repeated chances in front of the same coaches.  Duke Camp in August as an incoming senior is very late for a power conf college, unless he's RHP throwing 90+ with command, or a great glove corner launching bombs out of the park.  Duke picks up their last cherry picks at the PG WWBA and similar tournaments where the prospects are high level late bloomer pitchers, or high level hitters hitting advanced pitching. Same for other high academic D1's.  Georgetown and Columbia were still looking for two power hitting corner players at the PG WWBA and the Showball HC event the past July.  Harvard held off making some formal offers until their early August Camp.  The Ivy camps always have 4-6 other college coaches attending (normally D3's and Patriot D1's).  Princeton HC feeds some players he likes but has no room for to GTown HC.  

You need to find a way to stay in top baseball shape in between showcases.  Def more thoughts on this, but gotta run, hopefully no typos here.... 

 

 

Thanks for your well thought out reply Gov. To answer your questions, he has played on several high quality travel teams and had success so I think the baseball talent is there for a D3/Patriot (maybe Ivy). But his playing time and showcasing has been significantly hampered by injury. He did a PBR event last Jan '16, where he got his exit velo, but the injury hurt his arm velo #'s. He is a good fielder and getting faster although not fast (7.6 60). He has worked with a pitching coach and has very good mechanics according to one nationally known pitching guy. We were thinking Legion could be a relatively inexpensive way to help him stay ready between showcases, but you raise a good point as to the quality of pitching he may see there. 

Thinking once he is in top form in May we do a recruiting video and send it out to targeted schools with email telling them where he will be in the summer. Meantime keep training/refining/prepping and playing somewhere ahead of HF in June. Then do at least one or two more high academic showcases after that in the summer.  Does it make sense to do the PG Academic the week before the HF CA? Seems like PG's value is more in getting the numbers than about coach exposure. Just not sure that warrants spending $2k to go down there. 

As for schools of interest, he seems to favor technical schools (MIT, CalTech, Pomona/Mudd, U. Chicago) over Ivy's, and definitely wants the academic side to drive the process. 

2019&21 Dad posted:

Gov posted:

2019&21 Dad posted:

Similar question for my son's summer schedule. He is a 2019 P/corner IF. 6'2", 195. Low 80's FB, w/good control and secondary stuff. Pop in bat (86 exit velo). 1560 SAT 4.0 GPA, 1520 PSAT (perfect score). He is late getting on the recruiting scene due to an arm injury last year. He had surgery last Sept and went to the Harvard camp a few weeks ago and is back to form playing HS ball this spring. We are in PA but booked for HF in CA June 26-27. It will be part baseball, part college visits, part family vacation. Looking to fill out the rest of the summer with showcases/camps and not currently playing on a team other than potentially Legion to stay in shape and sharp. Thoughts on that approach?

Considering the following showcases/camps:

- Showball, ASBA Academic in July, Perfect Game Academic in FL, Duke's Camp in August, Baseball America (Top 96), maybe HF again on Long Island in Aug

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been there before. 

How is his baseball skill?  Any PG grade, or accolades via PBR?  He's got the grades, and nice size for being a P or corner IF, how's the glove?  How's the speed?  Keep getting the exit velo stronger and becoming a better hitter.  Spring HS ball should get him good reps, but the downtime between that and showcases could be concerning due to not seeing decent pitching to hit against.  The showcases will have Pitchers of all levels - 80-92FB, he has to make sure he's timed up so that he gives himself a chance while in front of the college coaches. 

 Has he been on a competitive summer club team?  While grades are great, don't forget these are baseball coaches trying to recruit the best possible players for their college.  Whether it's Harvard or Amherst, they want players, that happen to have the grades and scores.

Does he work with a throwing guy?  With his size and weight along with refined mechanics should make him more projectable.  There's time for him to continue to refine.

I think multiple HF camps (June and July) could be good, giving himself repeated chances in front of the same coaches.  Duke Camp in August as an incoming senior is very late for a power conf college, unless he's RHP throwing 90+ with command, or a great glove corner launching bombs out of the park.  Duke picks up their last cherry picks at the PG WWBA and similar tournaments where the prospects are high level late bloomer pitchers, or high level hitters hitting advanced pitching. Same for other high academic D1's.  Georgetown and Columbia were still looking for two power hitting corner players at the PG WWBA and the Showball HC event the past July.  Harvard held off making some formal offers until their early August Camp.  The Ivy camps always have 4-6 other college coaches attending (normally D3's and Patriot D1's).  Princeton HC feeds some players he likes but has no room for to GTown HC.  

You need to find a way to stay in top baseball shape in between showcases.  Def more thoughts on this, but gotta run, hopefully no typos here.... 

 

 

Thanks for your well thought out reply Gov. To answer your questions, he has played on several high quality travel teams and had success so I think the baseball talent is there for a D3/Patriot (maybe Ivy). But his playing time and showcasing has been significantly hampered by injury. He did a PBR event last Jan '16, where he got his exit velo, but the injury hurt his arm velo #'s. He is a good fielder and getting faster although not fast (7.6 60). He has worked with a pitching coach and has very good mechanics according to one nationally known pitching guy. We were thinking Legion could be a relatively inexpensive way to help him stay ready between showcases, but you raise a good point as to the quality of pitching he may see there. 

Thinking once he is in top form in May we do a recruiting video and send it out to targeted schools with email telling them where he will be in the summer. Meantime keep training/refining/prepping and playing somewhere ahead of HF in June. Then do at least one or two more high academic showcases after that in the summer.  Does it make sense to do the PG Academic the week before the HF CA? Seems like PG's value is more in getting the numbers than about coach exposure. Just not sure that warrants spending $2k to go down there. 

As for schools of interest, he seems to favor technical schools (MIT, CalTech, Pomona/Mudd, U. Chicago) over Ivy's, and definitely wants the academic side to drive the process. 

If he is targeting the schools you listed, if given the chance and supported by the coach should really consider going ED. My son verbally committed to CMS (Mudd) but did not get accepted. His scores were higher than your sons so just a heads up.   

He is definitely doing Early Action at the technical schools. Can't afford to do Early Decision as we'll need all the financial aid we can get and can't do it if not enough.

When is it best to attend headfirst or showball?  After Sophmore year or after Junior year?  I have a 2020 grad that will most likely want to attend a good academic school.

Many schools will give you a FA pre-read before you apply ED.

BTW both at both Harvey Mudd and Caltech there is no coach assistance with admissions.  I believe there is at MIT. Not sure about Chicago.  

JCG posted:

Many schools will give you a FA pre-read before you apply ED.

BTW both at both Harvey Mudd and Caltech there is no coach assistance with admissions.  I believe there is at MIT. Not sure about Chicago.  

Yes we found that out

RoyHobbs9 posted:

When is it best to attend headfirst or showball?  After Sophmore year or after Junior year?  I have a 2020 grad that will most likely want to attend a good academic school.

For D3 summer after Junior year.  For D1 it's better to get on their radar earlier, if possible.

JCG posted:

Many schools will give you a FA pre-read before you apply ED.

BTW both at both Harvey Mudd and Caltech there is no coach assistance with admissions.  I believe there is at MIT. Not sure about Chicago.  

U of Chicago can support...as well as Pomona. 

Pitzer too. 

We know a kid -- not baseball, different sport -- who was promised admission to Pomona ED. For whatever reason he was rejected.  But the coach was able to get him in RD at Pitzer. 

JCG posted:

RoyHobbs9 posted:

When is it best to attend headfirst or showball?  After Sophmore year or after Junior year?  I have a 2020 grad that will most likely want to attend a good academic school.

For D3 summer after Junior year.  For D1 it's better to get on their radar earlier, if possible.

If your son is a position player try to get to one of the Ivy camps summer and fall of his incoming Junior year (if he's interested and capable of playing Ivy).  Two days with all the coaches seeing skills and game actions.  Then go to the fall Junior year HF, Showball, or AZ Fall Classic, the Ivy coaches attending will have all ready seen you and actually know you.  Helpful for position players.

Concur with JCG if looking at D3's.  If D3 academics are of interest initiate emails with them spring HS junior year...albeit a bit early, but they'll start getting to know you, and they'll seek you out when they see you at the June HF camps. 

2019&21 Dad posted:

Gov posted:

2019&21 Dad posted:

Similar question for my son's summer schedule. He is a 2019 P/corner IF. 6'2", 195. Low 80's FB, w/good control and secondary stuff. Pop in bat (86 exit velo). 1560 SAT 4.0 GPA, 1520 PSAT (perfect score). He is late getting on the recruiting scene due to an arm injury last year. He had surgery last Sept and went to the Harvard camp a few weeks ago and is back to form playing HS ball this spring. We are in PA but booked for HF in CA June 26-27. It will be part baseball, part college visits, part family vacation. Looking to fill out the rest of the summer with showcases/camps and not currently playing on a team other than potentially Legion to stay in shape and sharp. Thoughts on that approach?

Considering the following showcases/camps:

- Showball, ASBA Academic in July, Perfect Game Academic in FL, Duke's Camp in August, Baseball America (Top 96), maybe HF again on Long Island in Aug

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been there before. 

How is his baseball skill?  Any PG grade, or accolades via PBR?  He's got the grades, and nice size for being a P or corner IF, how's the glove?  How's the speed?  Keep getting the exit velo stronger and becoming a better hitter.  Spring HS ball should get him good reps, but the downtime between that and showcases could be concerning due to not seeing decent pitching to hit against.  The showcases will have Pitchers of all levels - 80-92FB, he has to make sure he's timed up so that he gives himself a chance while in front of the college coaches. 

 Has he been on a competitive summer club team?  While grades are great, don't forget these are baseball coaches trying to recruit the best possible players for their college.  Whether it's Harvard or Amherst, they want players, that happen to have the grades and scores.

Does he work with a throwing guy?  With his size and weight along with refined mechanics should make him more projectable.  There's time for him to continue to refine.

I think multiple HF camps (June and July) could be good, giving himself repeated chances in front of the same coaches.  Duke Camp in August as an incoming senior is very late for a power conf college, unless he's RHP throwing 90+ with command, or a great glove corner launching bombs out of the park.  Duke picks up their last cherry picks at the PG WWBA and similar tournaments where the prospects are high level late bloomer pitchers, or high level hitters hitting advanced pitching. Same for other high academic D1's.  Georgetown and Columbia were still looking for two power hitting corner players at the PG WWBA and the Showball HC event the past July.  Harvard held off making some formal offers until their early August Camp.  The Ivy camps always have 4-6 other college coaches attending (normally D3's and Patriot D1's).  Princeton HC feeds some players he likes but has no room for to GTown HC.  

You need to find a way to stay in top baseball shape in between showcases.  Def more thoughts on this, but gotta run, hopefully no typos here.... 

 

 

Thanks for your well thought out reply Gov. To answer your questions, he has played on several high quality travel teams and had success so I think the baseball talent is there for a D3/Patriot (maybe Ivy). But his playing time and showcasing has been significantly hampered by injury. He did a PBR event last Jan '16, where he got his exit velo, but the injury hurt his arm velo #'s. He is a good fielder and getting faster although not fast (7.6 60). He has worked with a pitching coach and has very good mechanics according to one nationally known pitching guy. We were thinking Legion could be a relatively inexpensive way to help him stay ready between showcases, but you raise a good point as to the quality of pitching he may see there. 

Thinking once he is in top form in May we do a recruiting video and send it out to targeted schools with email telling them where he will be in the summer. Meantime keep training/refining/prepping and playing somewhere ahead of HF in June. Then do at least one or two more high academic showcases after that in the summer.  Does it make sense to do the PG Academic the week before the HF CA? Seems like PG's value is more in getting the numbers than about coach exposure. Just not sure that warrants spending $2k to go down there. 

As for schools of interest, he seems to favor technical schools (MIT, CalTech, Pomona/Mudd, U. Chicago) over Ivy's, and definitely wants the academic side to drive the process. 

Does it make sense to do the PG Academic the week before the HF CA? Seems like PG's value is more in getting the numbers than about coach exposure. Just not sure that warrants spending $2k to go down there. 

There's no guarantee which coaches will be at PG Academic - I'd reach out now and find out if the targeted colleges will be there.  If your son can post some good numbers it will obviously help him; he can attach the PG write up in emails and he'll automatically gain exposure with other colleges, but those colleges may not be schools he's targeting.  If going high academic you need to execute target marketing. 

It would help you to know your sons baseball capability - get some feedback, perhaps an assessment by his club coaches, or a scout.  This would serve as a sanity check when you're trying to guide your sons recruiting plan.     

There's a member here who had his son go to the PG Academic incoming Junior and incoming Senior summers - Harvard HC was there and saw him both times and called him immediately after the second camp to recruit him.  He plays for Harvard now, but just one story. 

I'd prefer to spend the $2k now, toward speed instruction, skill refinement, and developing an unmistakable monster bat.   

Also the Pg Academic showcase has been scheduled during the SAT subject tests for the past few years, kind of ironic but made it not feasible for many top academic kids.  

Good advice on this thread so far.  Also FYI HF splits up into teams once the "showcase" part is over after the first half day.  Your son gets two games each day (with specific pitching rules and only 5 batters er inning no matter what to speed things along), so he will be sitting around when the other set of teams are playing their games.  It is not a great time to talk to coaches during that down time as they are busy with the games going on then.  The best time to approach coaches is during a game if lucky enough to have them in your dugout or on the field, or right after the game if lucky enough to have them watching your game (those watching sit behind a screen behind home plate).  

comments above seem accurate to me.  Have done both Showball and HF in the last year with my 2019.  Our experience with HF was there were coaches available to talk between games, just not all the coaches, all the time.  Showball was a little more challenging getting with the coaches but I think that's because HF practically forces the kids to engage.  Their booklet is very helpful, too.  Showball does use a second field that in SF apparently will be only a few minutes away from SF State for the overflow. Coaches stay put; kids rotate.  So all kids should be seen, just not at the same time.  I think the early games especially on the second day are better attended at each event than the last games.

Liked both events, though son preferred Showball. He thought the second day of HF was exhausting.  Two notes that may reinforce what's above.  Go to the event where most of your target schools will be, and let them know you're coming a few weeks ahead of time. Especially helpful to include a video, and then have your kid seek these coaches out at the events.  I've had a few great conversations myself with coaches at these events, but I've only tried to talk with coaches of programs my sons are NOT interested in.

final note: give your kid at least one full day off between events if possible. These things are stressful for the kids, it's usually very hot, and there are few shady spots at each field.

Good Luck!

Tequila,

Getting back to your original post...if your target schools are mostly at HF and your son has recent communications with them then I would confirm that they will be at HF.   Take a quick count and base your decision on the quality of target schools and quantity.  Then I would follow Smokeminsides advice of informing them you will be there and include a video and any milestone updates to the coaches.  At the end of the day both of these showcases have recruited many folks on this board.  The differences are slight but you have to pick who is best for you and your son.   As always,, JMO

Recruited = Passion + Skill + Exposure + Persistence + Luck

Thanks Fenway and Smokem...all good advice and I really appreciate it. We ended up registering for the HF camp but I really don't think we would have gone wrong either way. Primary schools of interest are at both so I ended up having to simply make a decision which I based on a pros/cons comparison we put together. In a perfect world, we could do both but the budget has its limits :-)

Thanks again for everyone's feedback on this. It's been very helpful!

2019&21 Dad posted:

 

Considering the following showcases/camps:

- Showball, ASBA Academic in July, Perfect Game Academic in FL, Duke's Camp in August, Baseball America (Top 96), maybe HF again on Long Island in Aug

Appreciate any thoughts from those who have been there before. 

My son (2020 RHP) went to the Oct 2017 Duke camp. He enjoyed it and it was a great chance to see how a D1 athlete lives (my boy raved about the weight room), but it didn’t offer much in the way of exposure,  Yes, coaches watch the games, but there are a lot of kids there with widely varying skill levels.  Players do not get written evaluations or other formal feedback. For the money, it was a very good experience (we didn’t need plane tickets to get to Durham), but I wouldn’t think of it as an element of your recruiting strategy. 

Chico, VERY helpful and important feedback.  Not sure you can answer this but do you think they honed in on potential D1 kids at the camp? Or were they just running drills and focusing on that? Thanks!

The October Duke camp had coaches from 8 or 10 schools, which was great; but most were D2 and D3 schools and not high-academic, so not likely a match for kids aiming for Duke.

My son was a rising sophomore and not throwing 95 mph, so I can’t say how Duke treated kids it was actually recruiting. Kids were divided into teams and a coach assigned to each. My son’s team’s coach was from a N Carolina D2.  My son liked his coach, but he wasn’t from a school son is interested in.

Duke coaches were watching every game, as were coaches from other schools. They were writing down radar gun readings for the Ps, but didn’t tell my son (or any others, so far as I know) what the readings were.

In October there were rising 9th graders who weighed about 90 lbs pitching to 6’2” HS upperclassmen (and vice versa), so it’s a mixed bag. My son said he didn’t get any useful coaching feedback, but it may be he just didn’t want to talk with me about it. And it rained, which eliminated some games/activities.

Camp was well run and fun. I think it was good to let my son play in a showcase-type environment for college coaches before he does the real thing. The players did timed runs, etc., but they didn’t get any kind of report on their results.  

If a Duke coach personally requests that your kid attend, then it might have some recruiting value. Otherwise, it’s a fun weekend, your son might learn a few things and can see a Power 5 team’s baseball facilities and also view a bit of the Duke campus...  It was worth the $250 or so we paid to do it once, but I probably wouldn’t do it again unless at a much smaller school that my son was targeting or a school that asked to see him at their camp. 

Good feedback on the Duke camp. Son said he wouldn't want to play at Duke (or any top D1 really). He wants to play ball, but wants to focus more on the academic side as a Physics, Math or Engineering major. So that's putting us looking at top D3 academics or maybe Ivy's. So we'll do HF in CA in June, and probably Showball in July in NY. Beyond that we'll see what interest is there and if we go to individual school camps or other academic camps/showcases.

If focused on D3 only, HF and Showball are both great camps the summer before Senior year.  Find a way for the targeted D3 to see you more than once. Find out which specific camps and showcases the targeted D3 will attend. My 2018 was focused on Ivy's, but had a few targeted D3's as backups.  The D3 he committed to saw him 4 times (PG WWBA, Chicagoland Showcase, two Showball events).  This D3 HC knew my son was seeking Ivy, so he was patient, it was good my son made an effort to get to know the targeted D3 HC's.  This paid off when it came to August when the Ivy's weren't quite panning out. (my son is a MIF)

If a position player is focused on D1 high academic schools: the summer and fall of incoming Junior year are critical to be seen.  A position player needs more time to get reps and display game actions.  If you are focused on a couple of Ivy's, attending their two day camps the summer or fall of Junior year could be helpful. After the individual camp the coaches will have a very good idea of your abilities, and know who you are. Then, if you attend the Junior year Nov HF or Showball Camps a few months later they'll likely seek you out (assuming your abilities are a possible fit).  After Nov Junior year you'll know if you're being recruited by an Ivy. 

Attending a HF or Showball your incoming summer as a Junior will also compliment, just know that it may be difficult to display your game actions. (How many innings can go by without a ball hit at SS or 2B)  If you have a BIG bat you'll get noticed, period.  If your club team is not playing tournaments that will draw your targeted schools, do not be uncomfortable about missing a club tourney - go to a HF or Showball.

As a parent it could be helpful if you have an objective assessment of your sons playing ability and measurables.  Does his playing ability, measurables, and physical size project to mid D1?   Are his academics in line with the expections of admissions for his targeted high academic college?  If your son wants to play OF for an Ivy, is he running sub 6.9, does he have a strong bat. Could be a wake up call that he's not ready for a particular camp or showcase.  It's better to deploy funds toward improving speed and strength, refine skills, strengthen the bat.  Delay attending an incoming Junior HF or Showball until Nov of his Junior year.  That 6 months could be valuable in adding speed, strength, and improving the bat. Attending a HF event is $995 plus airfare and lodging - could be $2500 spent.

If you're a PO seeking D1 high academic - Such a tricky thing to keep a healthy arm. Attending a July HF or Showball in July, or waiting for October's AZ Classic, and/or a Nov HF or Showball...  Could be better to rest then re-ramp back up in the Fall for Oct and Nov events.  It's also a chance to refine mechanics and regain some strength from a long hot summer.  Plenty of members here with kids pitching for Ivy's, they can tell you about velocities that are recruited.     

Duke Camp: my son also went the Fall of his Soph year.  He had a good MIF glove, average bat, solid gamer on the field, 5'6 140lbs wet.  It was inexpensive, fun, he got a feel for where he stood.   While his glove was complemented, his arm strength, speed and bat were not at the level to stand out among over 150+ kids.  Even if you go Junior year, HC Pollard is trying to be a top power 5 baseball team, he's looking for serious stand out talent.  Duke will invite players they've identified from previous months tournaments (PG WWBA or Music City Classic).  We saw 3-4 players pulled to the side, parents included.  I would have preferred to spend the $1500 toward an instructor who could truly strengthen sons bat.  This could be a good camp if you really want Duke, but do you have the stuff that Duke wants at the time you attend their camp?

If we were to do this all over again:

Summer Incoming Junior year: 

• Attend either July HF or Showball Camp 
• One or two Ivy Camps (August)
• Keep up with summer club tournaments to continue facing advanced pitching
• Hopefully the club team is playing a tournament where some of the Ivy's will attend (all Ivy's were at the PG WWBA, as well as a few of the high academic D3's).

Fall Junior year:

• Attend one or two other Ivy camps (Sept - Oct)
• AZ Fall Showcase (Oct)
• November HF or Showball

Incoming Senior summer:

• June HF and July HF or Showball (may miss a club tournament)

Note: Summer before Senior year: few Ivy's and GTown's were still seeking BIG bat corner position players (saw this at July HC Showball event, Georgetown and Columbia) 

The Duke Camp was a good one.  We did get a written report on all the measurable data.  I'm in NC, so it wasn't too expensive.  The data was good since it showed my 2020 what he was up against.  They had some really good ball players there. 

Mudnyeri posted:

The Duke Camp was a good one.  We did get a written report on all the measurable data.  I'm in NC, so it wasn't too expensive.  The data was good since it showed my 2020 what he was up against.  They had some really good ball players there. 

We thought it was good as well.  Now, a few years later I'm thinking: would I do it again?  If we were living within a reasonable driving distance (4-5hours), I would, even if he was a Soph. Son had a great experience. 

I'd prefer to do it again if son was a Junior and if his measurables and abilities would stand out.  Sub 6.9, throwing and exit velo's at 90, plus capable of impressing with a bat.  If you can play and have those measurables they'll be watching.  

My 2019 son did Duke camp summer before 9th grade and again winter of sophomore year. (By the way he loved Duke and the camps and got great feedback from them). While he was definitely noticed and even was told by Head Coach and RC that he would hear from them, by the middle of son’s sophomore year they had 10 commits from his class.  Unless your son becomes a rock star between soph and junior year, I wouldn’t spend much time with Duke after sophomore year. They tend to be in the early recruiting bucket. Not quite as much as some of the other ACC and SEC schools, but they will have moved on for juniors with the exception of star standouts. And if you’re a parent of a frosh or soph and Duke is high on their list, get to them now. Don’t wait. 

Midwest Mom posted:

My 2019 son did Duke camp summer before 9th grade and again winter of sophomore year. (By the way he loved Duke and the camps and got great feedback from them). While he was definitely noticed and even was told by Head Coach and RC that he would hear from them, by the middle of son’s sophomore year they had 10 commits from his class.  Unless your son becomes a rock star between soph and junior year, I wouldn’t spend much time with Duke after sophomore year. They tend to be in the early recruiting bucket. Not quite as much as some of the other ACC and SEC schools, but they will have moved on for juniors with the exception of star standouts. And if you’re a parent of a frosh or soph and Duke is high on their list, get to them now. Don’t wait. 

Concur. If your skills and abilities will stand out, go.  Son had a teammate who was 5'11 180 lbs as an 8th grader, throwing 86, he stood out.  Grades didn't.

Duke is also located in a hot bed of talent, tons of teams to watch to pick up talent.  They might recruit a few players from their camps out of the 150-200 that attend.  

Since we went to the subject of college camps, can someone knowledge chime in what, if any, recent NCAA camp rule changes effect exposure?

I know there is a new(ish) rule, but don't know the details.

My only baseball-playing kid is a HS 2020, so I admit I don’t know much.  But the advice to attend camps at the Ivies surprises me.  If my son had already had some contact with an Ivy and gotten some real encouragement (more than just passing notice), then I guess I could see it.  But otherwise, to invest in plane tickets, etc. in hopes of getting noticed by one school at their camp seems like an expensive gamble. Even if your kid has the tools, he could always have a bad day. (Yeah, that can happen at a showcase, too... ).  I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.  Do others have a different opinion?  

Chico Escuela posted:

My only baseball-playing kid is a HS 2020, so I admit I don’t know much.  But the advice to attend camps at the Ivies surprises me.  If my son had already had some contact with an Ivy and gotten some real encouragement (more than just passing notice), then I guess I could see it.  But otherwise, to invest in plane tickets, etc. in hopes of getting noticed by one school at their camp seems like an expensive gamble. Even if your kid has the tools, he could always have a bad day. (Yeah, that can happen at a showcase, too... ).  I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.  Do others have a different opinion?  

Hi Chico,
My son has gotten a ton of camp invites from all types of schools. He's a 2019 and ,as he's gotten older, the invites seem to be a bit more "serious" if that makes sense i.e. not as much looking like a form letter created from a list the schools from some marketing database. He's also been in touch with several coaches who have suggested that he come to one camp or another. Now I don't know what the actual numbers are but several of them have made it a point to mention that X number of current players attended one of their camps or "we recruited 4 players just out of our winter session alone," etc. This is still a marketing technique something akin to holding a raw steak in front of a hungry dog when it comes to dads and their baseball kid who wants to play at the next level but I'm sure there's some truth in there somewhere :-)

Also, sometimes there will be multiple schools represented at these and they're typically willing to divulge that information if you ask. It usually won't be a competing level school e.g. you won't have the University of Arkansas showing up at a Mizzou hosted camp. If the camp is hosted by a P5 D1 you'll see D2/D3/NAIA/Juco maybe.

All that said, we have been to a few specific school camps - either those of direct interest to my son, or convenient to our area. I can honestly say that I've felt each one has been worth something in the overall process by my son simply being able to interact with the coaches and players at the level he would like to play, and learning about a day in the life of a college baseball player firsthand. There has also been quite a bit of recruiting wisdom imparted at these and that was invaluable early in our process. Not all coaches deal with recruiting in exactly the same way so, if your son is interested in a particular set of schools, it's good to have a feel for how those coaches operate and prioritize.

We've gotten a few lately from the northeast but, to your point, it's not really feasible right now for me to catch a flight up to PA for a day unless my son gets an email, phone call, or text directly from the HC or RC saying we'd REALLY like to see you. My two cents.

I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.

If a player has very targeted colleges he's interested in, that's the exception to attend their individual camps.  BUT, you've got to make sure the baseball skills are a possible match for that level of school.  Position players need to show more reps and game actions to increase the comfort of a college coach to recruit them.   

Similar to the Duke camp there are normally a few high academic D3's that coach the individual Ivy camps, as well as a GTown or Patriot colleges. 

 I think this is a way to improve chances for position players capable of playing Ivy. I would do this with my boys if I had to do it all over again.

(The exception to above is:  you don't need to go to an individual D3 camp, you can be seen by them at HF or Showball, they're looking for video and email to indicate players interest, then they'll seek you out at the HF type event)

Gov posted:

I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.

If a player has very targeted colleges he's interested in, that's the exception to attend their individual camps.  BUT, you've got to make sure the baseball skills are a possible match for that level of school.  Position players need to show more reps and game actions to increase the comfort of a college coach to recruit them.   

Similar to the Duke camp there are normally a few high academic D3's that coach the individual Ivy camps, as well as a GTown or Patriot colleges. 

 I think this is a way to improve chances for position players capable of playing Ivy. I would do this with my boys if I had to do it all over again.

(The exception to above is:  you don't need to go to an individual D3 camp, you can be seen by them at HF or Showball, they're looking for video and email to indicate players interest, then they'll seek you out at the HF type event)

If I had it to over again (that would potentially a great thread BTW), that would be one thing I'd do differently.  That plus have someone outside the family sit down with Junior early in Sophomore year to tell him, "What you think are good grades are not in fact good grades, if you want to go to an elite college or university".

Great thread—thanks to all. 

My son is a PO.  I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers?  (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)

And while I am at it, a couple of other questions:  Do high academic D3s pay attention to players during the summer after their sophomore years, or do they generally wait?  And any advice on what velo a pitcher needs to get interest from a U.Chicago/MIT/other school known much more for academic rather than athletic prowess?  (I went to U.Chicago.  While I was there, a Chicago Tribune columnist wrote that the school was known as a place where the male students had smaller biceps than their girlfriends’.)

...and I still wasn’t good enough to make the baseball team.

Chico Escuela posted:

Great thread—thanks to all. 

My son is a PO.  I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers?  (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)

My son is a 2018 PO. He attended multiple school camps and got offers from all but one of the schools he visited.

He was down to making a decision when a school we'd visited a lot stepped in at the last minute and asked him to come to another camp. I was pretty much done, their RC, HC and PC had seem him throw multiple times in games, at showcases and so on video. But son insisted — apparently they had some technology that measures spin rate and they wanted to see his stats on that. We went, they offered before the camp was over. They flat out said they wouldn't have offered if we hadn't done that last camp.

U. Chicago has a video of the 2018 Baseball team on their website. Take a look, what are your thoughts?

JCG posted:

Gov posted:

I have always heard that going to a college camp is not generally a way to get discovered by a school, and that schools don’t generally think of camps as sources for recruits.

If a player has very targeted colleges he's interested in, that's the exception to attend their individual camps.  BUT, you've got to make sure the baseball skills are a possible match for that level of school.  Position players need to show more reps and game actions to increase the comfort of a college coach to recruit them.   

Similar to the Duke camp there are normally a few high academic D3's that coach the individual Ivy camps, as well as a GTown or Patriot colleges. 

 I think this is a way to improve chances for position players capable of playing Ivy. I would do this with my boys if I had to do it all over again.

(The exception to above is:  you don't need to go to an individual D3 camp, you can be seen by them at HF or Showball, they're looking for video and email to indicate players interest, then they'll seek you out at the HF type event)

If I had it to over again (that would potentially a great thread BTW), that would be one thing I'd do differently.  That plus have someone outside the family sit down with Junior early in Sophomore year to tell him, "What you think are good grades are not in fact good grades, if you want to go to an elite college or university".

"What you think are good grades are not in fact good grades, if you want to go to an elite college or university".

Not to hijack thread (been meaning to start a thread on this) but the use of PG's self-reported academic info was key for this conversation.  Being able to show Junior or one of my HS players what it takes academically to play college ball, much less HA college ball,  is gone now that PG no longer allows access to players' self reported academic info.  Their choice, their business, but it was a great motivator for at least one player I know to hit the weights AND the books.  

Chico Escuela posted:

Great thread—thanks to all. 

My son is a PO.  I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers?  (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)

And while I am at it, a couple of other questions:  Do high academic D3s pay attention to players during the summer after their sophomore years, or do they generally wait?  And any advice on what velo a pitcher needs to get interest from a U.Chicago/MIT/other school known much more for academic rather than athletic prowess?  (I went to U.Chicago.  While I was there, a Chicago Tribune columnist wrote that the school was known as a place where the male students had smaller biceps than their girlfriends’.)

1. Yes, consensus is with PO's for the individual camps matter less.  UNLESS, it is a highly sought after college by your son.
2. Emailing video and verified velo's in spring of HS Junior year suffices.  The high academic D3's are hoping to snag players hoping for an Ivy spot, they are accustomed to being patient.  They know the game, they won't waste time to early in the process. 
3. The high academic D3's hope to see you in June of incoming Senior summer, then they can follow you during the club summer tourney months.  We saw JHopkins, few NESCACs at WWBA and Music City tourney's.  They are still looking for baseball talent, just because they're D3 academic don't think all they care about are the academics.
4. Velo: spoke with D3 academic coach last week - he said 83-85 is normal range with good command, with the occassional guy sitting north of 86. Look up draft picks from last year: Amherst P and maybe an MIT P, could be Scouting reports available online.  
5. Find out ahead of time which showcases or camps the targeted D3 will be at.  Very key if considering June HF or Showball events, they sell out early.  Inquire before the D3 starts their spring season, to increase chances of a timely response.
6. Coach Fitz at UofChicago is a good guy, very relaxed, been around.  His AC is the former HC at Northwestern...they're trying to build a program.  They need to improve their indoor facilities.

Edit: If the colleges are easy for you to get to, their camps are a lot cheaper than the HF or Showball events, so why not?  Especially if they're top schools of interest for your son.

Iowamom23 posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

Great thread—thanks to all. 

My son is a PO.  I take it the consensus here is school camps matter less for pitchers?  (So long as you have verified velo readings from a showcase or three and some video to send...)

My son is a 2018 PO. He attended multiple school camps and got offers from all but one of the schools he visited.

He was down to making a decision when a school we'd visited a lot stepped in at the last minute and asked him to come to another camp. I was pretty much done, their RC, HC and PC had seem him throw multiple times in games, at showcases and so on video. But son insisted — apparently they had some technology that measures spin rate and they wanted to see his stats on that. We went, they offered before the camp was over. They flat out said they wouldn't have offered if we hadn't done that last camp.

Good to know—thanks. Just wondering: were these mostly schools within driving distance of home?  My son wants (at least for now) to go to school in a different part of the country.  I’d like to minimize air travel. Although if I’m going to spend close to $300k on college anyhow, then another few grand for plane tickets is a good investment, I guess. Trying to figure out the smartest strategy for this...

BigTaco, thanks for the tip re: video of the current Maroons. Not sure I’m a qualified judge, but I will check that out later when I’m on an Internet connection fast enough for video. (And to be clear: I knew some very good athletes at Chicago. In many cases, they had made a conscious choice to focus on academics instead of sports in college. But nobody’s first thought about the school is “athletics.”)

My son was "recruited" to play at MIT (graduated HS in 2010). I use quotes because the "recruit" is weighed in the general admission pool; no coach pull or slots. 

We visited during spring break junior year in response to an open offer to visit extended the previous summer at HF. Met and toured campus with RC and then son attended a game. Son said the kids were calculating the parabolic arc of the ball when one of the MIT players hit a dinger. The previous summer (rising junior) son was mid-low 80s.

Of all the schools we visited (dozens over time), MIT was the friendliest and most unusual. Both kids loved the atmosphere.

Son decided to pass because of the lack of an assured spot (RC had shared some really sad stories - like the kid who turned down a lowball Arizona offer only to get rejected at MIT). Because a kid is way out on a limb in waiting for admissions, if you apply to MIT, apply to many other schools. That having been said, I understand that MIT grads don't have much trouble finding decent jobs.

Looking back, high academic D3s do "soft" recuiting whenever they see a potential match in skills, academics and scores. Dozens of D3 coaches approached and spoke to my son during his HF and Stanford camps as a rising junior. (As an aside, the kids at these camps should have sealed envelopes with transcripts and scores.)  The coaches are building relationships and nothing makes a potential recruit feel wanted then a coach remembering his name the following year. (Coach Frawley at Yale is a true master of this art.)

Goosegg: Wow, MIT is asking a lot.  Do folks have any info about other D3 schools that take this approach?  When schools are taking 10% or fewer of their applicants, it’s awfully tough to advise a kid to turn down a guaranteed place at another college in hopes the admissions office likes his file.  MIT could fill its class a few times over with kids who have perfect grades and 1600 SATs, as could a number of other high academic schools. Is there a list somewhere of institutions that don’t give the nod to otherwise-qualified athletes?

My 2018 was very late to the recruiting game, and went to both Showball and HF showcases in August 2017. They were one after the other, on Long Island. My son much preferred HF. Better fields, better contact with coaches, better run drills, etc.. Keep in mind that he stunk it up at the plate at Showball and tore the cover off the ball at HF, as well as fielded well at SS/OF, and showed off his sub 7.0/60 speed, and his 90+mph OF arm. That biased him towards HF, I think. He had a 3.6 GPA with a rigorous schedule(coaches don't care, admissions do) and a 33 ACT.

   He had already been in contact with a few schools prior to the showcases, but this was the first time that they had seen him in person. After the showcases, he had multiple contacts both from coaches that he had alerted of his presence beforehand, and ones he had never contacted. Off the top of my head, there was Carleton, Macalester, U of Chicago, Wesleyan, Middlebury, McGill, Stevens(I think?), Swarthmore and a few more. There was slight interest from Davidson, some school in VA, Dartmouth, and Columbia in the D1 camp.

    On top of that he had interest from schools with lesser academics in the D2's/JC's, although it's hard to determine where they got their info from. Grapevine?

 When you leave it late like we did, it gets to be very hard to make all the camp invitations, as they take place in a condensed time in the fall, before the ED dates in November. A couple of schools lost interest when he told them he couldn't make their camps because of his schedule...he was also playing Fall ball for a very good traveling team that he had committed to, and, because he was looking at some really good schools, and had to keep his marks up. Made for a stressful fall, and would've been very expensive if he had followed up on all the camp invites.

  All turned out well, as he ended up at a school that he really, really, likes, but I believe that if he had any chance at playing D1(not a big concern on his part) he would've had to have started earlier than he did. Many coaches there indicated that he could play at mid/low level D1's, but we didn't have the time, money, and energy to chase down every option out there. I firmly believe that if he was 6'2"+ rather than his 5'9" on tippy toes then he would have had more interest. He already had schools indicating interest in converting him to P because of his arm strength, but for every one of those there were two schools whose eyes glazed over once they realized his height.

 Overall, I am a big believer in the Academic camps, and especially HF, if your player is academically inclined. Zero sleazeball factor. As a Dad, I acted as a go between/lackey for my kid at times to let coaches know where and when they could meet, but otherwise I stayed out of things, unless I knew the coach a bit already and we were on friendly terms. Even then, I was highly conscious of not being "that Dad". 

Can anyone tell me whether I am more likely to find Dartmouth at HF or Showball?  Right now I see the other Ivies well represented at all sessions of both.  But Dartmouth is at one or two westcoast sessions of Showball (I am on the east coast) and not at all at HF.  Ms. Chico went to Dartmouth, so it's a fairly important question in my household.  Any idea why the Big Green aren't showing up at more showcases?

I know they go to the AZ Jr. Fall Classic.  That's a bit further east!

it could be that they are not done with their showcase schedule yet.  I will say, in the last three years, I don't think Dartmouth has been to HF, and as you probably know they're not yet on the schedule this year.

Dartmouth was at the August HF on Long Island last year.

good to know.  Was not at HF events in California.

Chico Escuela posted:

Can anyone tell me whether I am more likely to find Dartmouth at HF or Showball?  Right now I see the other Ivies well represented at all sessions of both.  But Dartmouth is at one or two westcoast sessions of Showball (I am on the east coast) and not at all at HF.  Ms. Chico went to Dartmouth, so it's a fairly important question in my household.  Any idea why the Big Green aren't showing up at more showcases?

Dartmouth AC Evan Wells is very responsive.  Your son should be reaching out directly to him right now to find out where the Dartmouth Coaches will be.

Last year, we saw Dartmouth at:   PC at Nov HF, AC Wells at Stanford Camp and AZ Fall Classic, AC Wells at PG WWBA, Dart HC at Showball Head Coaches Camp.  Where the coaches were last year says nothing about where they will be this year, the coaches constantly refine the showcases they'll attend.

Evan Wells is no longer at Dartmouth but Gov’s point remains the same. Reach out to the current coaches. They may be able to be specific about dates and places. 

Jonathan Anderson was the point of contact when my 2015 was looking at Dartmouth. He went to a number of events including Showball. He was the coach who did the "write-up" for my son and was in the dugout December of his sophomore year at Showball. He's still active w/ Dartmouth and website says recruiting is part of his responsibilities.  He was the one that we talked to most at Junior Days and wanted son's schedule and transcript.  I would say he's the #2 under Coach Whalen.

Ripken Fan posted:

Jonathan Anderson was the point of contact when my 2015 was looking at Dartmouth. He went to a number of events including Showball. He was the coach who did the "write-up" for my son and was in the dugout December of his junior year at Showball. He's still active w/ Dartmouth and website says recruiting is part of his responsibilities.  He was the one that we talked to most at Junior Days and wanted son's schedule and transcript.  I would say he's the #2 under Coach Whalen.

I think Anderson was responsive to emails as well.  I didn't realize Wells had moved on.....

Thanks to all.  The Dartmouth web site has detailed instructions about the info they want from potential recruits.  I will remind Chico, Jr. (again) that he needs to get in contact.  It would be nice if Dartmouth joins all the other Ivies at HF this year.  One-stop shopping (and cheaper)...

If I had to do it all over again I would choose HF & Targeted school camps. It used to be the Ivies had unwritten rule of no recruiting until Junior year. (2.5 yrs of grades and early test scores). Upenn changed that & now the Ivies are actively hunting P's earlier. Son went to Columbia, Lehigh, Yale, Dartmouth Upenn  , Fordham over 3 years. Columbia (Best Run) Dartmouth (By far worst). He played for a well known travel team and had 2 offers from D1 schools from Virginia. He wasnt interested based on location & still looking Ivy. He needed to improve SAT. Attended HF in August on Long Island. Very pleasurable and he got a ton of contacts. Wooster, Kenyon, Wesleyan (CT) were at forefront. StevensTech & Muhlenberg in mix.  I was impressed with the HF process. He chose a school with a 63k price tag, but gave him ALOT of Merit based Aid. 

Final thoughts: Ivy contention if You have a 3.9 & min 1320 SAT. I think this is will keep your kids file active.

Grades & Test Scores Count: Grades from Freshman Year thru Senior year count bigtime. Invest in SAT Test Prep classes. Best investment / ROI

HF Price Tag is pricey but worth it.

DO NOT GO TO A SHOWCASE OR CAMP UNTIL JUNIOR IS READY. My son was small freshman year 5'6" & no where near physically where he needed to be. Impressions from coaches are hard to change. This was my fault. By summer of 2017 My son was a completely different person from previous 2 years.

Hope this helps & these are my thoughts based on our experiences.

Waffles&icecream posted:

 

DO NOT GO TO A SHOWCASE OR CAMP UNTIL JUNIOR IS READY. My son was small freshman year 5'6" & no where near physically where he needed to be. Impressions from coaches are hard to change. This was my fault. By summer of 2017 My son was a completely different person from previous 2 years.

 

Great post--thanks.  And brings up something I have been wondering about:  I know every kid develops differently and no one can offer a truly informed opinion without seeing someone play, but I have been cogitating over whether to take my 2020 to HF this August, or wait until next year (after his junior season).  His goal is high academic: Ivy or a handful of D1s, or else probably D3.  Son is a RHP.  He's 6'0 and 190 lbs., unlikely to get taller but just got into lifting and serious training this winter and his coaches say there is a fair amount of untapped potential there.  Currently sits around 83 mph; by August expects/hopes to be 85+. 

1) Is son likely to attract any interest from Ivies or other high academic D1s in August 2018.  (That is, would they put him on their list to check out in 2019?)  2) Would a trip to HF this year have any value otherwise--say by getting some early notice from D3s? 3) Would HF in 2018 have any potential downside (other than the cost)?  Is it better to wait until son is throwing harder?  I have some time to decide, but August HF seems to fill up by early summer.     

I would wait for oct or Nov HF event. I think he may get lost in shuffle in the late summer one, as most of those kids are gonna be seniors. Just my 2 cents.  

Chico,

I know baseball has been very, very good to you!  ;-) 

My two cents....let's assume your son has the academic chops to get into Dartmouth or any Ivy.  Big assumption, but let's go with it for now.  The quickest way to get an Ivy's attention is for your son to get attention of other D1 mid-majors thereby proving he has the necessary skills & talent  and is "fishing in the right pond".   If a handful of mid-major D1s show interest and begin offering then it is just a matter of him getting the right SATs/ACTs and some exposure to get the Ivy coaches support through Admissions.   If you look at the majority of Ivy starters or guys that are getting significant playing time, I'll guarantee you that they've been offered at other D1 mid-majors.   These are the guys that have recruiting leverage because they have something coaches want.

I wanted to give you another perspective to consider.  Make sense?  Good luck.

I'd think about AZ JR Fall Classic Academic game. ( there are multiple threads here on the topic) It's well-represented by Ivies, and would give your kid a little more time, and put the kid pretty square into the current recruiting class for those schools.  Logistically it may be a little tricky as you probably won't have to cut a non-refundable check right now, but your son would need to find a team that's going.

fenwaysouth posted:

Chico,

I know baseball has been very, very good to you!  ;-) 

My two cents....let's assume your son has the academic chops to get into Dartmouth or any Ivy.  Big assumption, but let's go with it for now.  The quickest way to get an Ivy's attention is for your son to get attention of other D1 mid-majors thereby proving he has the necessary skills & talent  and is "fishing in the right pond".   If a handful of mid-major D1s show interest and begin offering then it is just a matter of him getting the right SATs/ACTs and some exposure to get the Ivy coaches support through Admissions.   If you look at the majority of Ivy starters or guys that are getting significant playing time, I'll guarantee you that they've been offered at other D1 mid-majors.   These are the guys that have recruiting leverage because they have something coaches want.

I wanted to give you another perspective to consider.  Make sense?  Good luck.

This is an important point and I think worth some thread drift.  

While there are certainly some high-academic D3 players who could play for some Ivy or other D1 programs, and maybe even be impact players, Ivy league teams have more in common with other D1 teams than they do with high academic D3 teams.  For example, last weekend California, IMO a very solid Pac 12 team, swept 4 games from Brown, but 3 of those 4 games were one-run games - one was on a walk off.  The same Cal team played Oregon State, the #1 team in the nation this past weekend, and were swept, but two games were decided by a total of 3 runs, and the third game was a one-run game through 7.  But for a few key errors they could have won 2 out of 3.   My long winded point is that Brown and OSU are not that far apart. Having seen those three teams, play, as well as having seen some hi-ac d3's play this year, I'm pretty darn confident that the D3 teams ARE that far apart from Brown.  

As far as that relates to Chico Jr, to be totally honest, until and unless he gets his velo substantially higher he's probably better off fishing in the D3 pond.

Chico:

It's really a tough decision on when to send a player to HF summer- especially if looking at High Academic D1s/Ivies. Son went to HF the summer before junior year, just as your son is positioned to do. He had done some showcases previously and HF (and Showball Magacamps in December) were the events which had the highest # of schools that showed interest in him and he was vetting. He had something to show (top 60-time), and many of these schools had video and transcripts. My son is a position player, who showcased as a MI/CF.

For some schools on his list at the time (e.g. Bucknell), their focus was on the year previous to his--they really weren't looking until September to turn the page and look at his graduation year. Son was looking at the Ivy League, and I think had HF been "the event", August as a rising senior would be too late for D1/Ivy. The D3s at HF even early showed interest, though with their timetables, HF rising senior is right as decisions are starting then, after a number of D1s have filled rosters.

Fenway's point in bold print, was spot on; my son and I saw it first hand.  After ranked Big State U. offered my son, the timetable for where he would eventually commit accelerated. Good luck to you and Chico Jr!

[good to know someone out there remembers the original Chico Escuela]

Thanks all.  A wealth of useful info and much appreciated.  I guess I will wait out the HS season, or at least until HF August sessions get close to full, before Chico Jr. and I make any decisions.  I also will do some research about the AZ All-Academic game, which looks interesting (although we are on the east coast). 

Jr. is my youngest, so I have seen the college application meat grinder up close before, but not with a potential athlete.  From what I saw, if you have the requisite grades and test scores at the Ivies and other top academic schools, then you go into a pool with about a 5-10% chance of admission.  Once in that 5% pool, then if you have won a Nobel Prize (or at least a Westinghouse), or there is a building on campus named after a grandparent, then you can feel fairly confident.  But D1 athletes are almost assured admission so long as they make the standards for the 5-10% pool, and D3 sometimes offers athletes a leg up.  Chico Jr. is much more likely to throw a 90 mph fastball than win a Physics Nobel. Might as well aim high, but I know there are lots of great colleges out there outside D1 (I went to one). 

Just after I hit "post," I got an email from HF in response to one I sent them.  The email says they see a roughly 40-25-25-10% split between rising seniors, juniors, sophomores and freshmen, respectively.  Thought that might be useful info for others also.

Chico Escuela posted:

..................................................................................

Jr. is my youngest, so I have seen the college application meat grinder up close before, but not with a potential athlete.  From what I saw, if you have the requisite grades and test scores at the Ivies and other top academic schools, then you go into a pool with about a 5-10% chance of admission.  Once in that 5% pool, then if you have won a Nobel Prize (or at least a Westinghouse), or there is a building on campus named after a grandparent, then you can feel fairly confident.  But D1 athletes are almost assured admission so long as they make the standards for the 5-10% pool, and D3 sometimes offers athletes a leg up.  Chico Jr. is much more likely to throw a 90 mph fastball than win a Physics Nobel. Might as well aim high, but I know there are lots of great colleges out there outside D1 (I went to one). 

Chico - To further clarify, Ivy athletes have a "leg up" and don't have to come through the "front door" with regular admissions where it is most competitive 5-15% admissions rate.  As long as an Ivy recruit's academics are within 2 standard deviations of the incoming class there is a potential "admissions side door" with coach support through ED admissions.  If the ED recruits academics are on par with the incoming class his or her chances are really, really good.   For an Ivy recruit, understanding this balance of where you stand academically and athletically is incredibly important.   Those folks that have lived through this process can tell you about all the sleep they've lost thinking about this stuff!  ;-) 

That may indeed be the HF split but because ANYONE can pay and go, I have skepticism about those percentages.   There are quite a few dreamers there (guys who have not given up the dream to play collegiately, or maybe parents who have not given up, and do not have the requisite skills).  I'm not saying they are all seniors, but the numbers are not meaningful as the split is not the same thing as boys who received offers because of HF.  

Of course it really just depends on your checkbook, and your son's skillset.  As others have mentioned as a position player, it helps to get in front of targeted coaches more than once.  As others have mentioned, Ivies have accelerated their timetables, and while they may still be looking in July (used to be August only but HF put in an east coast earlier date because Showball was eating their lunch), they pretty much know who they want by then and have many if not most slots filled.  Asterisk if your kid is throwing 90+ though.  

Son #2 went rising junior and again rising senior year.  Both helped his recruitment in different ways.  We saw a freshman there my son's rising senior year who threw high 80's but also saw a senior who threw 70's.  Believe it or not both got commitments.  

Annnnd Showball now says Dartmouth HC Whalen is coming to their Aug. 7-8 camp in New York.  Man, when you ask a question on this site, you really get results.  

https://showballbaseball.com/c...amp-2018-new-york-2/

Both are very good.

In my opinion the best is I95 Metro Baseball.

Big reason?  1 FIELD.  EVERY coach watched my kid.  Plus the stadium adds to it.

Reviving this thread for two reasons (I hope folks don't mind):

     1)  Upthread a ways, someone asked if the new NCAA rule prohibiting "recruiting conversations" with D1s prior to Sept 1 of Junior year was affecting HF and Showball as opportunities for underclassmen to gain exposure.  My 2020 son just finished a HF showcase.  I have no experience from prior to the rule change, but I can say my son and I thought HF was great and he got a lot out of it.  Players who have not passed the magic Sept. 1 mark were pretty much limited to introducing themselves to a coach and giving a few brief words about why they were interested in his school.  That probably has very little recruiting value, but Son got the experience of having to approach and introduce himself to coaches, which was great.  Post-HF, my son has heard from a few D1s with lightly personalized camp invites that say the coach saw him at HF.  My sense is that schools generally aren't doing more than than that for players younger than 2019.  

       Keep in mind that the new rule does not apply to D3s, which are most of the schools at HF.  I don't think D3s generally recruit players prior to the summer of their junior year anyhow, but at least D3 coaches didn't have to be on guard to avoid potential infractions of the new regime.  My son told me some D1 coaches actually said words to the effect of "I don't want to seem rude, but I'm very limited in what I can talk with you about."

     All in all, HF was a great experience for my 2020.  I assume he will do HF or Showball in the fall when he is past the Sept. 1 mark, and probably next summer, too--and when he does those, I think he will be more relaxed because he knows what to expect and has some idea what the competition is like.  HF also did a very good job explaining recruiting and inspiring teenaged boys to actively direct their own efforts to play college baseball. 

     2)  My son is a PO, so he threw two innings on HF Day 1 and three innings on Day 2.  ("Inning" here meaning he faced six batters, each of which started with a 1-1 count.)  That came to about 115 pitches over two days, including 40+ on day 1.  Not what Dr. Andrews would recommend and the boy had a sore arm, but he seems to be OK. 

     Showball's web site says that they have pitchers throw a bullpen in front of coaches on Day 1, then pitch in two games on Day 2.  Coaches are watching all three sessions, so kids are going to try to throw hard.  That means my kid would pitch not only on consecutive days, but three times in two days.  I know it's just for the one weekend, but am I wrong to be concerned?  Anyone else have experience with this that they can share please?

Chico Escuela posted:

Reviving this thread for two reasons (I hope folks don't mind):

     1)  Upthread a ways, someone asked if the new NCAA rule prohibiting "recruiting conversations" with D1s prior to Sept 1 of Junior year was affecting HF and Showball as opportunities for underclassmen to gain exposure.  My 2020 son just finished a HF showcase.  I have no experience from prior to the rule change, but I can say my son and I thought HF was great and he got a lot out of it.  Players who have not passed the magic Sept. 1 mark were pretty much limited to introducing themselves to a coach and giving a few brief words about why they were interested in his school.  That probably has very little recruiting value, but Son got the experience of having to approach and introduce himself to coaches, which was great.  Post-HF, my son has heard from a few D1s with lightly personalized camp invites that say the coach saw him at HF.  My sense is that schools generally aren't doing more than than that for players younger than 2019.  

       Keep in mind that the new rule does not apply to D3s, which are most of the schools at HF.  I don't think D3s generally recruit players prior to the summer of their junior year anyhow, but at least D3 coaches didn't have to be on guard to avoid potential infractions of the new regime.  My son told me some D1 coaches actually said words to the effect of "I don't want to seem rude, but I'm very limited in what I can talk with you about."

     All in all, HF was a great experience for my 2020.  I assume he will do HF or Showball in the fall when he is past the Sept. 1 mark, and probably next summer, too--and when he does those, I think he will be more relaxed because he knows what to expect and has some idea what the competition is like.  HF also did a very good job explaining recruiting and inspiring teenaged boys to actively direct their own efforts to play college baseball. 

     2)  My son is a PO, so he threw two innings on HF Day 1 and three innings on Day 2.  ("Inning" here meaning he faced six batters, each of which started with a 1-1 count.)  That came to about 115 pitches over two days, including 40+ on day 1.  Not what Dr. Andrews would recommend and the boy had a sore arm, but he seems to be OK. 

     Showball's web site says that they have pitchers throw a bullpen in front of coaches on Day 1, then pitch in two games on Day 2.  Coaches are watching all three sessions, so kids are going to try to throw hard.  That means my kid would pitch not only on consecutive days, but three times in two days.  I know it's just for the one weekend, but am I wrong to be concerned?  Anyone else have experience with this that they can share please?

I share your concern. 2019 did HF in CA in June and that was fine - 1 inning 1st day, 2 consecutive innings 2nd day. That's fine. We saw Showball's schdule laid out as you described, and son's concern was heating back up for game 2 after having thrown in game 1 earlier, plus the max effort (radar gun) bullpen the day before. So that is the major reason he is doing HF again in Aug on Long Island. Just hoping MIT coach is there for that Aug 6-7 session to follow up on their meeting in CA. Thanks for the thread - always helpful to come on here for info and perspective.

My son did HF Session 1 in CA (1 inning on day 1 and 2 innings on day 2 -- perhaps 25 pitches on day 1 and 50 on day 2) and was scheduled to attend Showball in NY. I had the same concern so I called Showball and worked out with them the following schedule -- no bullpen on day 1, and on day 2 they agreed to have him pitch the last two innings of the first game, and the first two innings of the second game. So, essentially, 4 innings in a row.

With any of the camps, you are the paying customer, your son should do as much (or as little) as you feel comfortable with. Another example: my son skipped the medicine ball throw, shuttle runs, and vertical jump testing for pitchers on day 1 at HF. IMO, that testing wasn't likely to improve the likelihood that he would pitch his best in the late afternoon game, so he skipped it.

That's a good idea! Applaud you for your creativity and assertiveness, wish I had thought of it. Son decided not to do the max effort throw on Day 1 @ HF this time. Said he felt it a little on Day 2. He is a 2 way player so he'll hit and take ground balls Day 1, just not the radar gun throw. Also doing the Brown camp Aug 12. 

2019&21 Dad posted:

That's a good idea! Applaud you for your creativity and assertiveness, wish I had thought of it. Son decided not to do the max effort throw on Day 1 @ HF this time. Said he felt it a little on Day 2. He is a 2 way player so he'll hit and take ground balls Day 1, just not the radar gun throw. Also doing the Brown camp Aug 12. 

The way HF works, as described to me by a coach, is the D1 radar stats are shared to all coaches the night after D1.  If the numbers are good, coaches will then go watch that player on D2.  If you skip the radar, you may be missing an opportunity to be seen.  Food for thought....

Thanks for the insight. Son isn't lighting up the gun, so not sure that would attract more eyes on D2. He's contacted certain schools of interest already and will continue to talk with them to let them know where to see him. Plus, having done HF already will give him a little more comfortability with the schedule and knowing what to expect which hopefully will help his performance. 

Fwiw, at HF my son was able to talk with very few coaches on Day 2.  On Day 1, even during games, coaches were moving between fields and were fairly easy to find and approach.  On D2, most seemed to have a plan in mind and to go from game to game to see specific players--they were seldom anywhere other than behind the plate on one of the fields.  It looked to me as if they used D1 to decide who to follow on D2, and that their D2 agendas were fairly set.

Agree w/Mr. Escuela. Players should have communications (email, text or in person) with coaches prior to D2 to have them be seen by schools of specific interest. 

CTbballDad posted:

2019&21 Dad posted:

That's a good idea! Applaud you for your creativity and assertiveness, wish I had thought of it. Son decided not to do the max effort throw on Day 1 @ HF this time. Said he felt it a little on Day 2. He is a 2 way player so he'll hit and take ground balls Day 1, just not the radar gun throw. Also doing the Brown camp Aug 12. 

The way HF works, as described to me by a coach, is the D1 radar stats are shared to all coaches the night after D1.  If the numbers are good, coaches will then go watch that player on D2.  If you skip the radar, you may be missing an opportunity to be seen.  Food for thought....

The max effort throw is for position players, right?

In my son's experience, the radar readings -- and a scouting report written by the assigned coach -- was shared with all the coaches after Day 1, but the radar readings were from the 1 inning thrown on Day 1. Of course, the scouting report/radar is not shared with the players (or parents!) but sometimes a coach in the dugout will tell a kid what it said -- at least that is what happened in my son's case.

2019Dad posted:

The max effort throw is for position players, right?

In my son's experience, the radar readings -- and a scouting report written by the assigned coach -- was shared with all the coaches after Day 1, but the radar readings were from the 1 inning thrown on Day 1. Of course, the scouting report/radar is not shared with the players (or parents!) but sometimes a coach in the dugout will tell a kid what it said -- at least that is what happened in my son's case.

I think all of that is correct.  Pitchers who also want to play in the field at HF were specifically told they could choose to skip the max velo throw (or any of the Day 1 skills part).

Not getting velo numbers or any other feedback is a little frustrating.  One tip I can offer:  My son said the catcher he threw to on Day 1 passed on some velo numbers he overheard the coaches discussing while son was pitching.  (In NY, coaches were behind a net screen on the field directly behind the C.)  If I were a P, I'd ask my catcher to keep his ears open and let me know what he hears.

I also was surprised that pitching evaluators were using pocket radars and were only measuring velo on a few pitches.  For almost $1,000 per player, I expected to see real radar guns on tripods with pitch data fed into a laptop.  I'm not complaining--just surprised.

Something I found interesting:  the coaches writing the pitching evals frequently told the catcher what pitch to call, so they could see different looks for each P.  The thing is, the batter could clearly hear the calls, too.  Which maybe shows (again) that college coaches really aren't looking at whether a pitcher gives up hits or a batter goes 4-for-4; instead I suppose they are more concerned about form / mechanics / projectability.  I think players often forget this (so do dads). 

Chico Escuela posted:

2019Dad posted:

The max effort throw is for position players, right?

In my son's experience, the radar readings -- and a scouting report written by the assigned coach -- was shared with all the coaches after Day 1, but the radar readings were from the 1 inning thrown on Day 1. Of course, the scouting report/radar is not shared with the players (or parents!) but sometimes a coach in the dugout will tell a kid what it said -- at least that is what happened in my son's case.

I think all of that is correct.  Pitchers who also want to play in the field at HF were specifically told they could choose to skip the max velo throw (or any of the Day 1 skills part).

Not getting velo numbers or any other feedback is a little frustrating.  One tip I can offer:  My son said the catcher he threw to on Day 1 passed on some velo numbers he overheard the coaches discussing while son was pitching.  (In NY, coaches were behind a net screen on the field directly behind the C.)  If I were a P, I'd ask my catcher to keep his ears open and let me know what he hears.

I also was surprised that pitching evaluators were using pocket radars and were only measuring velo on a few pitches.  For almost $1,000 per player, I expected to see real radar guns on tripods with pitch data fed into a laptop.  I'm not complaining--just surprised.

Something I found interesting:  the coaches writing the pitching evals frequently told the catcher what pitch to call, so they could see different looks for each P.  The thing is, the batter could clearly hear the calls, too.  Which maybe shows (again) that college coaches really aren't looking at whether a pitcher gives up hits or a batter goes 4-for-4; instead I suppose they are more concerned about form / mechanics / projectability.  I think players often forget this (so do dads). 

Chico, funny story on that -- my son got lucky and knew his HF catcher well (they had played scout ball together last fall and go to rival high schools). At one point the catcher called a changeup and my son shook him off. The catcher puts down changeup again, my son shakes him off again, and the catcher, by way of explanation, points to one of the coaches behind the screen! lol, OK, changeup it is!

2019Dad posted:

Chico, funny story on that -- my son got lucky and knew his HF catcher well (they had played scout ball together last fall and go to rival high schools). At one point the catcher called a changeup and my son shook him off. The catcher puts down changeup again, my son shakes him off again, and the catcher, by way of explanation, points to one of the coaches behind the screen! lol, OK, changeup it is!

Good story

At HF my son threw a curveball that ended up being a HR.  I'd *like* to think the batter knew it was coming (but I'm not sure).  

 

Something I found interesting:  the coaches writing the pitching evals frequently told the catcher what pitch to call, so they could see different looks for each P.  The thing is, the batter could clearly hear the calls, too.  Which maybe shows (again) that college coaches really aren't looking at whether a pitcher gives up hits or a batter goes 4-for-4; instead I suppose they are more concerned about form / mechanics / projectability.  I think players often forget this (so do dads). 

Interesting--didn't see this in son's recruiting journey, and he did many showcases. Many showcases do favor the P with 1-1 start count. Batter really only got advantage when P reached 4 balls on batter, which required pitcher to throw fastballs only. "Skills set" of a showcase generally was where the position guys were noticed more. Sure it helps the batter who hits balls hard and square. Always found it interested to watch guys launch balls in BP, yet K every AB in game. 

In one particular showcase though , the games mattered to son, as one coach wanted to see him bunt for a hit, and the other wanted to time him stealing a base. Some showcases requested  runners on base, and son was always a willing participant for that role. 

Gov posted:

If focused on D3 only, HF and Showball are both great camps the summer before Senior year.  Find a way for the targeted D3 to see you more than once. Find out which specific camps and showcases the targeted D3 will attend. My 2018 was focused on Ivy's, but had a few targeted D3's as backups.  The D3 he committed to saw him 4 times (PG WWBA, Chicagoland Showcase, two Showball events).  This D3 HC knew my son was seeking Ivy, so he was patient, it was good my son made an effort to get to know the targeted D3 HC's.  This paid off when it came to August when the Ivy's weren't quite panning out. (my son is a MIF)

If a position player is focused on D1 high academic schools: the summer and fall of incoming Junior year are critical to be seen.  A position player needs more time to get reps and display game actions.  If you are focused on a couple of Ivy's, attending their two day camps the summer or fall of Junior year could be helpful. After the individual camp the coaches will have a very good idea of your abilities, and know who you are. Then, if you attend the Junior year Nov HF or Showball Camps a few months later they'll likely seek you out (assuming your abilities are a possible fit).  After Nov Junior year you'll know if you're being recruited by an Ivy. 

Attending a HF or Showball your incoming summer as a Junior will also compliment, just know that it may be difficult to display your game actions. (How many innings can go by without a ball hit at SS or 2B)  If you have a BIG bat you'll get noticed, period.  If your club team is not playing tournaments that will draw your targeted schools, do not be uncomfortable about missing a club tourney - go to a HF or Showball.

As a parent it could be helpful if you have an objective assessment of your sons playing ability and measurables.  Does his playing ability, measurables, and physical size project to mid D1?   Are his academics in line with the expections of admissions for his targeted high academic college?  If your son wants to play OF for an Ivy, is he running sub 6.9, does he have a strong bat. Could be a wake up call that he's not ready for a particular camp or showcase.  It's better to deploy funds toward improving speed and strength, refine skills, strengthen the bat.  Delay attending an incoming Junior HF or Showball until Nov of his Junior year.  That 6 months could be valuable in adding speed, strength, and improving the bat. Attending a HF event is $995 plus airfare and lodging - could be $2500 spent.

If you're a PO seeking D1 high academic - Such a tricky thing to keep a healthy arm. Attending a July HF or Showball in July, or waiting for October's AZ Classic, and/or a Nov HF or Showball...  Could be better to rest then re-ramp back up in the Fall for Oct and Nov events.  It's also a chance to refine mechanics and regain some strength from a long hot summer.  Plenty of members here with kids pitching for Ivy's, they can tell you about velocities that are recruited.     

Duke Camp: my son also went the Fall of his Soph year.  He had a good MIF glove, average bat, solid gamer on the field, 5'6 140lbs wet.  It was inexpensive, fun, he got a feel for where he stood.   While his glove was complemented, his arm strength, speed and bat were not at the level to stand out among over 150+ kids.  Even if you go Junior year, HC Pollard is trying to be a top power 5 baseball team, he's looking for serious stand out talent.  Duke will invite players they've identified from previous months tournaments (PG WWBA or Music City Classic).  We saw 3-4 players pulled to the side, parents included.  I would have preferred to spend the $1500 toward an instructor who could truly strengthen sons bat.  This could be a good camp if you really want Duke, but do you have the stuff that Duke wants at the time you attend their camp?

If we were to do this all over again:

Summer Incoming Junior year: 

• Attend either July HF or Showball Camp 
• One or two Ivy Camps (August)
• Keep up with summer club tournaments to continue facing advanced pitching
• Hopefully the club team is playing a tournament where some of the Ivy's will attend (all Ivy's were at the PG WWBA, as well as a few of the high academic D3's).

Fall Junior year:

• Attend one or two other Ivy camps (Sept - Oct)
• AZ Fall Showcase (Oct)
• November HF or Showball

Incoming Senior summer:

• June HF and July HF or Showball (may miss a club tournament)

Note: Summer before Senior year: few Ivy's and GTown's were still seeking BIG bat corner position players (saw this at July HC Showball event, Georgetown and Columbia) 

Where did your son commit to/where is he playing? What is the Chicagoland Showcase you mention? 

mom2baseballplayer posted:

Gov posted:

If focused on D3 only, HF and Showball are both great camps the summer before Senior year.  Find a way for the targeted D3 to see you more than once. Find out which specific camps and showcases the targeted D3 will attend. My 2018 was focused on Ivy's, but had a few targeted D3's as backups.  The D3 he committed to saw him 4 times (PG WWBA, Chicagoland Showcase, two Showball events).  This D3 HC knew my son was seeking Ivy, so he was patient, it was good my son made an effort to get to know the targeted D3 HC's.  This paid off when it came to August when the Ivy's weren't quite panning out. (my son is a MIF)

If a position player is focused on D1 high academic schools: the summer and fall of incoming Junior year are critical to be seen.  A position player needs more time to get reps and display game actions.  If you are focused on a couple of Ivy's, attending their two day camps the summer or fall of Junior year could be helpful. After the individual camp the coaches will have a very good idea of your abilities, and know who you are. Then, if you attend the Junior year Nov HF or Showball Camps a few months later they'll likely seek you out (assuming your abilities are a possible fit).  After Nov Junior year you'll know if you're being recruited by an Ivy. 

Attending a HF or Showball your incoming summer as a Junior will also compliment, just know that it may be difficult to display your game actions. (How many innings can go by without a ball hit at SS or 2B)  If you have a BIG bat you'll get noticed, period.  If your club team is not playing tournaments that will draw your targeted schools, do not be uncomfortable about missing a club tourney - go to a HF or Showball.

As a parent it could be helpful if you have an objective assessment of your sons playing ability and measurables.  Does his playing ability, measurables, and physical size project to mid D1?   Are his academics in line with the expections of admissions for his targeted high academic college?  If your son wants to play OF for an Ivy, is he running sub 6.9, does he have a strong bat. Could be a wake up call that he's not ready for a particular camp or showcase.  It's better to deploy funds toward improving speed and strength, refine skills, strengthen the bat.  Delay attending an incoming Junior HF or Showball until Nov of his Junior year.  That 6 months could be valuable in adding speed, strength, and improving the bat. Attending a HF event is $995 plus airfare and lodging - could be $2500 spent.

If you're a PO seeking D1 high academic - Such a tricky thing to keep a healthy arm. Attending a July HF or Showball in July, or waiting for October's AZ Classic, and/or a Nov HF or Showball...  Could be better to rest then re-ramp back up in the Fall for Oct and Nov events.  It's also a chance to refine mechanics and regain some strength from a long hot summer.  Plenty of members here with kids pitching for Ivy's, they can tell you about velocities that are recruited.     

Duke Camp: my son also went the Fall of his Soph year.  He had a good MIF glove, average bat, solid gamer on the field, 5'6 140lbs wet.  It was inexpensive, fun, he got a feel for where he stood.   While his glove was complemented, his arm strength, speed and bat were not at the level to stand out among over 150+ kids.  Even if you go Junior year, HC Pollard is trying to be a top power 5 baseball team, he's looking for serious stand out talent.  Duke will invite players they've identified from previous months tournaments (PG WWBA or Music City Classic).  We saw 3-4 players pulled to the side, parents included.  I would have preferred to spend the $1500 toward an instructor who could truly strengthen sons bat.  This could be a good camp if you really want Duke, but do you have the stuff that Duke wants at the time you attend their camp?

If we were to do this all over again:

Summer Incoming Junior year: 

• Attend either July HF or Showball Camp 
• One or two Ivy Camps (August)
• Keep up with summer club tournaments to continue facing advanced pitching
• Hopefully the club team is playing a tournament where some of the Ivy's will attend (all Ivy's were at the PG WWBA, as well as a few of the high academic D3's).

Fall Junior year:

• Attend one or two other Ivy camps (Sept - Oct)
• AZ Fall Showcase (Oct)
• November HF or Showball

Incoming Senior summer:

• June HF and July HF or Showball (may miss a club tournament)

Note: Summer before Senior year: few Ivy's and GTown's were still seeking BIG bat corner position players (saw this at July HC Showball event, Georgetown and Columbia) 

Where did your son commit to/where is he playing? What is the Chicagoland Showcase you mention? 

Sending you PM.

The Chicagoland Showcase represents the top 3-4 players on most of the Chicagoland High Schools.  Google it...there are two components: both for top players as well as players with gpa's north of 3.3/3.5.  Lots of HA colleges, similar to HF and Showball.  If your son is one of the better players on the varsity team he should have the option to attend.

2019Dad posted:

My son did HF Session 1 in CA (1 inning on day 1 and 2 innings on day 2 -- perhaps 25 pitches on day 1 and 50 on day 2) and was scheduled to attend Showball in NY. I had the same concern so I called Showball and worked out with them the following schedule -- no bullpen on day 1, and on day 2 they agreed to have him pitch the last two innings of the first game, and the first two innings of the second game. So, essentially, 4 innings in a row.

With any of the camps, you are the paying customer, your son should do as much (or as little) as you feel comfortable with. Another example: my son skipped the medicine ball throw, shuttle runs, and vertical jump testing for pitchers on day 1 at HF. IMO, that testing wasn't likely to improve the likelihood that he would pitch his best in the late afternoon game, so he skipped it.

How did your son like Showball as compared to Headfirst? My son attended HF in  NY as a rising junior-has your son been to HF in NY and CA? Wondering how they compare. Where did your son commit to? Was one showcase more helpful than the other? 

Mom2, sending you a pm

I think I have written this in another thread, but here is my $0.02:  

My 2020 son did HF in NY the summer before his junior year (2018), and SB in Bradenton that fall.  He did Showball in Boston the summer before his senior year (2019). HA recruiting really doesn't start until players have three years of HS grades available, so don't go to one of these events before you are a rising senior and expect to get seriously recruited.  But if you can afford it, I think it's worthwhile to attend one of these camps as a rising junior.  Going "early" gives a player the chance to see what the events are like, to talk with some coaches and maybe lay a foundation for an email and telephone correspondence during junior year.  For this purpose, HF may be the best bet, since it is MUCH easier for players to meet coaches there than at SB.  HF Day 1 includes some time when coaches are available and players are invited to meet and talk with them.  HF was my son's first time dealing with college coaches face-to-face, and the experience of introducing himself and carrying on brief conversations was very valuable.  I think that was great preparation for the phone calls, texts and meetings with coaches during the following spring and summer.

HF is very well organized.  You are given a schedule showing which coaches will be on which fields.  HF also includes several informational talks for players and one for parents--these have some good info, especially if you are new to the process.  

SB does have head coaches.  This has to be a good thing, but I don't know how big that advantage actually is.  Not surprisingly, the camp before my son's senior year was the most productive one he went to, and led to him committing to the school he's attending next year. That camp happened to be SB, but I think he would have gotten similar results from HF.  Both camps are great for being seen by HA schools.  There is a lot of overlap, but it is worth putting the lists of colleges attending side-by-side and determining where you can be seen by the coaches you are most interested in.  Neither camp had every school my son was targeting--for him, SB had a slight advantage this past summer when it came to having most of the colleges he wanted to be seen by.

My son also decided he preferred SB's format, because he said he didn't want to attend the HF informational speeches again.  (He's 18 years old and knows everything...)  SB is almost all business--you go, you play, and you leave.  Unless a coach happens to be assigned to the dugout where your kid is playing, at SB it can be difficult to find them.  (Of course, if a coach knows he wants to meet a player, the coach will make sure they talk.)  But keep in mind: your kid is highly unlikely to get recruited unless he has been in touch with a school via email beforehand and they are expecting to see him.  Shaking hands with a coach at camp is worthwhile--it's good for coaches to put a face with the name they have seen via email; but the meet-and-greets at HF are not a substitute for doing the legwork to get recruited.   

In my experience HF is definitely better run.  At both SB events we attended, scheduling was a little chaotic (long story).  Most importantly, my son was scheduled to pitch at 8 am on Day 2 of SB in 2019.  They decided to start the game early to get a jump on the day, and so they literally put my kid on on the mound at 7:45 a.m. after only letting him throw about five pitches on flat ground to warm up.  He never really got loose--and his velo was a full 5 mph slower than it was an hour later when he pitched his second game with an actual warm up.  The college he will be playing for this fall saw him pitch in game 2.  My son did hear from one or two coaches who saw game 1, but most of the interest he got was from coaches who saw the game he got to warm up for...  

I like SB and I recommend it.  But I do think HF is more organized and provides some worthwhile experiences beyond just the games.  On field, the camps look very, very similar.  You can't go wrong with either one, and IMO the schools attending each camp should be the main factor in your decision.