High school vs. Summer ball

How about school pride or playing with your friends or going to school the day after a great game knowing that people know you are a "baseball player". There is a lot more to baseball than just getting exposure. My son loves playing for the HS team. He loves his summer team as well, but he would NEVER give up playing for the HS team.

My Son has played Travel Ball from 12U up, High School Ball, College Ball and Summer Collegiate. He will never forget the friendships and the experience of the years playing for his High School.

Neither will his parents.

These were some of the most enjoyable years playing the game he loves.

Not every HS baseball player is looking to make a career out of it. Most kids move on with their life after HS while a few play on.

HS baseball is what it is. You play for your school, try and win county and state tournaments and sometimes you get in the local newspaper sports section for being a key contributor in a game.

HS summerball is more about exposure and individual benefits of playing as opposed to playing for a team with a long term team goal from the start of the season like HS ball.

As for summerball teams being stronger, of course they are. These teams are handpicked unlike school ball where it takes great coaching and a system to consistently field a competitive team year-in-and-year-out as you don't get to pick and choose the student body and the roster turns over every year while travel teams continue to handpick each summer.

I totally disagree HS baseball takes a backseat. One of the dynamics of HS baseball is it emphasizes playing as a team. You do things differently on a HS team, you do more things that are team oriented, on and off the field. You need to maintain grades for the privledge to play HS sports and it goes a long way even if you hang up the spikes after HS and can interview for a college and you can sell yourself by not only making the grade but lettering in one or more sports while maintaining the grades whether you plan on playing past HS or not.

With HS ball, You play for your school and your town. Nobody is going to care if the Diamond Dawgz beat the River Rats. Summer travel teams come and go where HS, you're trying to build a team thru 4 year cycles.

Too much emphasis here that HS baseball is supposed to be the be-all-end-all to college or pro ball and nothing else.

You gotta take a step back and look at the big picture and understand why kids play HS sports and how it can work for them in the future.

Both HS and travelball have their place and both serve a different purpose.

My College player has much fonder memories of his HS Team, teammates and experiences than with any of the great Summer teams he played for. As others have said, the HS experience encompasses much more than just the baseball. There is more emphasis on team, school spirit etc. My player went to school with many of his HS teammates from kindergarden while most Summer team members at 15-17U ages where basically one year relationships. Don't sell High School ball short.

Warningtrack son plays in a very competitive High School League and also plays on a top CDP program in the summer. They are just different, yet both are very good. The level of play for both is outstanding. In high school during league play every team has D1 players, each game is close. The tension on the field and in the stands is very noticeable. The kids want to win, they play for each other and the coaches - the people they see every day.

During the summer the talent is sometimes off the charts, but it is most certainly a different environment. More ab's and games most every day. Trips and memories that last a lifetime. Playing in front of college recruiters and pro scouts. Dreams of making it to the bigs. Working on their game while others take the summer off or move on the next sport. It's a different mindset but still the same game. Maybe I enjoy the summer more because of the road trips and the constant talk of baseball.........but the HS games in a 20 mile radius are certainly very fun.

Enjoy them both!

My son's best friends are on his Summer team, the talent on the school team is down and very few take baseball seriously. The school team isn't likely to venture far into the playoffs. The weather is much nicer when the Summer team plays and my son loves the fact that he faces and is surrounded by much better players in the Summer. He can't wait for the Summer season to get here!
In his case there's no comparison, Summer ball in a landslide! I can understand where it would be different for some, different kids have different personalities, my son always jelled better with the Summer kids and felt more of a kinship with them. If you let him prefer Summer ball I'll let you prefer the high school experience.

The coaches can make a big difference too and tip the scales in either direction.

It ALL starts with who's coaching that makes or breaks HS baseball program. For the past few years after my son played and during his HS playing years, the varsity teams were not very good in the W-L department but yet every summer, the teams played well and it was basically the same players in Legion but every spring and they got on varsity, it looked like a different team. When those same players were on freshman and JV teams, they were competitive and won their share of games. When you get decent talent year in and year out but the results are still the same, there's a reason why.

There's no doubt travel ball is a better quality of ball. Travel ball is better for exposure. But both situations are kids having fun playing ball and parents having fun watching. It's also fun to watch travel teammates compete against each other in high school.

My son's two best friends came from baseball. While they attended different elementary schools they became friends during LL all-stars when they were twelve. They've played six years of school ball together. It's been fun to watch them grow as people and baseball players. Team-wise my son has been tighter with his summer teams. But that's because they often spend weekends together.

quote:

Originally posted by bacdorslider:
Having 2 sons both playing high school baseball and then summer/select/travel baseball what ever you want to call it. I am beginning to feel that the summer baseball is far better than high school.

For instance, high school baseball has a weaker schedule than the summer baseball. In our case the summer team has better talent on the roster, and plays better competition.

You get more exposure from summer baseball and once you factor in the showcase tourney's , college camps and such, high school baseball takes a back seat. I don't see a lot of benifits to high school baseball other than maybe winning a state tourney?

Does your son play another high school sport where he doesn't play select ball or plan to play in college? Now put yourself in the place of a parent with your baseball view whose kid is playing select and going on to college ball in that sport. How does the view look now?

The players on my son's high school team who won't (or can't) play college ball aren't trying any less hard than those who will. They also want to win as badly. Most of them make all the optional winter workouts. All of them play some level of summer ball.

Between club and scout ball it is sometimes tough to watch a HS game. They are not as competitive. It is what it is....

Lefty...

quote:

Originally posted by Sdlefty:
Between club and scout ball it is sometimes tough to watch a HS game. They are not as competitive. It is what it is....

Lefty...

My son's high school team won it's conference last year. They made it to a state tournament play in game. His summer team would kick the cr@p out of his high school team. I don't find it any less interesting to watch the high school team. It's my kid enjoying playing ball. And me enjoying watching.

Look at it from my shoes:

Up here we've had 3 1/2 sunny days to practice/play since February 28 (1st day of tryouts), even when it's sunny it barely cracks 45 degrees.

That's for EVERY High School up here.

Then add the possibility of bad coaching at your school, which is a definite possibility at a school. Which includes mishandling pitchers' arms in the cold, politics, bad game management which can frustrate players, etc.

THEN add the fact, and this goes along with #1, when you go to school in the morning, you have NO CLUE whether you are playing or not that day because whether up here changes in a minute.

Once May roles around it all gets better...

SUMMER FOR SURE

*rolls*

And add the fact that since we practice every day outside in the rain up here, most of us are sick.

My guy played a 28 game HS schedule and a 68 game summer schedule his senior year. And we have very competitive HS baseball, but those 3 months of summer were extremely competitive, gave exposure and FUN.

He's been to college and in pro ball.He was by Clemson coaches to consider giving up his last season of HS to begin at CU. He didn't even think twice about saying no thank you.

As for myself, I have watched son play HS ball, HS summer travel, college, college summer and pro. Each one has been special. To me there is a order in the progression and HS ball plays an important role, as bballman states, there is a lot more to baseball than getting exposure, there is also a lot more from baseball besides just playing the game.

Don't ever think that HS ball plays no importance in your son's baseball or their personal development. Let them enjoy it, whether you do or not, too bad, remember, it's not your game.

How about playing just because you love to play?

quote:

Originally posted by sgvbaseball:
How about playing just because you love to play?

WHAT????? You mean that's still possible? Surely you jest.

HS baseball helps teach some things for college baseball that you don't get in summer ball:

- Carrying the helmet bag as a rookie
- The Math teacher knows how to get hold of coach to tell him you currently stink in math and you better buckle down.
- If you get caught breaking some rules in school or at the dance, chances are the coach will find out and it'll cost you some playing time or running time
- That the rookie over in the corner needs a lift once in a while (both a car ride and an attaboy lift)
- That you better not tick off the Senior who can bench twice your weight.
- That the umpire is not just a guy you will see at this weekends big tournament - he'll remember you all 4 years at school if you show him up too bad.

And many more.

Back ... You brought back some memories. When my son was a freshman he thought he would make a name for himself knocking down the senior captain in a tryout scrimmage. This was after the guy went deep just a few feet foul. He knocked him on his tail, then stuck him out. The coach loved it. The captain's teammates heckled him the rest of practice. My son had to carry two equipment bags in addition to his own equipment back to the locker room. He said he wore them on his shoulders like a badge of honor.

There are some VERY good high school posting on the Web here, no disrespect to you, the kids who play for you are very fortunate!
Last night my 27yo stopped by to pick up the grandkids who were here to redecorate the house. I figured HE would have chosen High school as the best memory over travel because he was more of a social butterfly and had many friends at school, they had a very good team, great fan support and a great Coach. To my surprise he said as well that Summer was easily his choice of great memories and enjoyment. The kids he played with in the Summer had the same goals and were more like minded than the kids on the school team.
High school baseball here is a great opportunity to get conditioning in and reps, interact with various personalities and skill levels and work on your game, and if you're lucky enough to have a great coach your game and life direction can get a big boost. Either way the high school baseball experience will teach you about life and help you grow as a person. But as far as enjoyment and memories, both my sons chose Summer in a landslide.

High School Ball is Spring Training for the Elite players.

quote:

Originally posted by Backstop-17:
HS baseball helps teach some things for college baseball that you don't get in summer ball:

- Carrying the helmet bag as a rookie
- The Math teacher knows how to get hold of coach to tell him you currently stink in math and you better buckle down.
- If you get caught breaking some rules in school or at the dance, chances are the coach will find out and it'll cost you some playing time or running time
- That the rookie over in the corner needs a lift once in a while (both a car ride and an attaboy lift)
- That you better not tick off the Senior who can bench twice your weight.
- That the umpire is not just a guy you will see at this weekends big tournament - he'll remember you all 4 years at school if you show him up too bad.

And many more.

Last year warningtrack son was a freshman on the varsity. The senior stud used to give my son a ride home and took him under his wings. I can't stress enough how much that helped. I am sure my son will do the same.

Great post above, thanks.

New and interesting topic.

School ball is more like a family reunion where as summer ball is a party with your friends. Both can be enjoyable, but in different ways.

Bacdoorslider- aren't wives usually right????

Keep reading and learning here and like most of us it has made us better baseball parents. High school ball is ultimately (in many cases) about a sense of community that far outlasts the HS season. Fans are proud of their HS players and you'll meet people in years to come that will remember watching your son play and congratulate you on how good your son was in high school.

We went to a local D1 college game last night with our high school teammates on different teams and it was awesome to see so many people from our community (45 minutes away) turn out to see them play. These boys are juniors in college now but people in our home town still follow them.

So, relax and enjoy high school because it goes by way to fast and in the summer just make sure your guys are on good travel teams.

Wives are like the captain of a ship. They are right by definition.

Enjoy both for what they are. No matter what they are in the grand scheme of his baseball journey.

I believe the worst thing anyone can do is trash HS ball to the other parents. This usually happens when a kid is not starting or playing where a parent thinks he should be playing on the high school teams. Said parent will typically make comments about how HS is meaningless and the coach is an idiot, and how they can't wait until "real baseball" starts in June. Bad move and classless IMO.

Kid on my son's JV team got a double yesterday. First hit that kid got in 2 years. The kids on the team yelled as loudly for him than they did my son's 375 ft homer that day (forgive the brag).

Come to think of it, the kids on the team may have yelled louder for the double. It was such a big deal to all of those boys. I loved it and I clapped wildly, too.

Sometimes baseball should just be enjoyed as baseball. Not a means to an end, not a business, just boys playing baseball for the love of the game. I lost track of that for awhile, but thanks to some words of wisdom on this site I have my head on straight again.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
How about school pride or playing with your friends or going to school the day after a great game knowing that people know you are a "baseball player". There is a lot more to baseball than just getting exposure. My son loves playing for the HS team. He loves his summer team as well, but he would NEVER give up playing for the HS team.

Curious, if your son's HS had a summer team, would he rather play there or with the travel team?

and when your'e not playing you get to practice 3 hours every day. What would you be doing during this time if it weren't for the school team.

quote:

Originally posted by bacdorslider:
We practice in some form or fashion 5 days a week and take two days off to play XBOX and go fishing, etc So to answer your question, if we did not have HS ball we would still be practicing since we were doing that as a routine long before he was old enough to play HS ball.

I'm warming up to high school ball, but in my opinion, even at the best high schools, it is lacking in as much as coaching and development are concerned. I like to play against better competition and right now school ball does not offer that.

High school ball is what it is......and I think we have belabored the point, some folks see it as a great thing, I do not.

Don't stereotype high school programs. My son's high school has a fall ball team. It's a place for any player to prove his ability. My son skipped travel fall of his soph year to play for the high school and won a starting position for the spring. Spring tryouts became a formality. He was the first soph to start opening day in six years. They have a FASST (fitness, agility, speed, strength training) three times a week from November through February. There are optional baseball workouts three days a week from November through February. The coach warns players in September don't show up for tryouts in any less than mid season form if they expect to make varsity. The coach has made it his business to get to know as many colleges coaches as possible since he became a head coach five years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by That's Baseball:

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
How about school pride or playing with your friends or going to school the day after a great game knowing that people know you are a "baseball player". There is a lot more to baseball than just getting exposure. My son loves playing for the HS team. He loves his summer team as well, but he would NEVER give up playing for the HS team.

Curious, if your son's HS had a summer team, would he rather play there or with the travel team?

Travel team by far. Very few good players play on the summer team that is offered. Mostly for 9th graders and sophomores who are not on a good summer team. If you think HS varsity teams are not competitive, HS summer teams are even worse. Here in Ga, a coach is not allowed for force players to play in the summer. Some strongly encourage it and don't technically force them to, but they do.

I will tell you this, competition in our area here in Georgia is pretty stiff in HS ball. We are in 5A in North Fulton County. Not far from East Cobb. The teams are not as good as the top travel teams, but many of them could give many travel teams a run for their money. Every game is competitive and any team in our region can beat any other team on any given night. It is far from like watching a rec game, I'll tell you that.

So, no question, he loves HS ball in the spring and would never want to give it up, but he would much rather play for the summer team in the summer. Much more competition vs. the HS summer team and much more exposure for the next level.

quote:

Originally posted by Play2win:
High School Ball is Spring Training for the Elite players.

That's about as bad a "generalization" as I've every heard.

So, no question, he loves HS ball in the spring and would never want to give it up, but he would much rather play for the summer team in the summer. Much more competition vs. the HS summer team and much more exposure for the next level. (Quote from bballman):

bballman,

and there are just as many that would cite just the opposite preference! PrimeJr. too grew up in E. Cobb baseball. When he comes home in the Summer after his college season and readies to play summer College ball, he reflects on his High School experiences, Championships etc, and not once has there been a memorable discussion about a Summer team accomplishment or experience. The level of competition was fantastic at both, for the record, but that isn't the primary reason he prefers one over the other. I'm sure if the HS competition was deplorable, as it is in some areas, that he might look at it differently. Not a right or wrong answer here, both should be viewed as great opportunities and the memories treasured!

quote:

Originally posted by Play2win:
High School Ball is Spring Training for the Elite players.

Do any of the non elite parents like you?

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
So, no question, he loves HS ball in the spring and would never want to give it up, but he would much rather play for the summer team in the summer. Much more competition vs. the HS summer team and much more exposure for the next level. (Quote from bballman):

bballman,

and there are just as many that would cite just the opposite preference! PrimeJr. too grew up in E. Cobb baseball. When he comes home in the Summer after his college season and readies to play summer College ball, he reflects on his High School experiences, Championships etc, and not once has there been a memorable discussion about a Summer team accomplishment or experience. The level of competition was fantastic at both, for the record, but that isn't the primary reason he prefers one over the other. I'm sure if the HS competition was deplorable, as it is in some areas, that he might look at it differently. Not a right or wrong answer here, both should be viewed as great opportunities and the memories treasured!

Prime, are you saying that your son would rather have played for his HS summer team in the summer rather than his summer travel team?

My comment is basically saying he loves HS ball, but would rather play with his travel team in the summer. He has great friends he has been playing with for years on his summer travel team and loves it. Believe me, I'm not saying that I'm against HS ball or think it's not worth it. Read my whole post again. I'm saying that the level of competition in HS where we play is great. I'm just commenting that he would rather play for the travel team in the summer vs playing for the HS team in the summer.

WOW.

Some of these posts just blow my mind. Why even play HS ball then? It seems like it is "beneath" some of you and your sons. Oh wait a minute...from some of these responses, I'm assuming that you play with your son when he plays right?

Sure, it can be disheartening, for a really good player to have a BAD high school program. I've seen that...it's tough.

But for those few who go onto play college ball...what about getting stuck behind the best prospect around in their position?

Or for the next lucky few, getting put on a Rookie level team that's absolutely horrible? Staying in cheap, nasty motels? Riding on buses 3 nights a week. Getting paid less than most fast food workers to work that hard?

THAT is the DOWNSIDE of travel ball. Kids that are never forced to work through adversity. Never experienced sitting on the bench and having to prove themselves. In travel ball, you just move to another team. Not so easy in High School.

My Dad took a new job when I was a rising 10th grader. I had made the JV in 8th, started (pitcher) in 9th and even been pulled up some to Varsity. Then we moved. I didn't know ANYONE on that team. Didn't know the coaches. Didn't know the players. I made the JV as a 10th grader. Hardly played at all. Finally got a shot, pitched my way out of another pitcher's jam. Back to the bench I went.

Got another shot...did my best.

Got pulled up to play with the Varsity in a local tournament...I was considered to 'cannon fodder' to eat innings. I pitched well. Back down I went. Two of the Varsity pitchers got measles. I got pulled up out of desperation by the V coach. Won two District games. Stayed up.

Life isn't easy. Sometimes your boss knows less than you do, and he's a real *****. Doesn't mean he's not your Boss. If you don't teach your kid that now, life is going to be tough for him. Either that or he'll enjoy living with you until the's 30 and whining about how everyone is out to get him.

Just my take.

Bac ... All I can say at this point is you just don't get it. And you're coming off like a rookie high school parent. Almost every poster on this board has a kid who's a college prospect and plays travel in the summer. But we also "get" high school ball and enjoy it for what it is. You're also coming off as an elitist and uninformed in front of some of the best high school coaches you could ever obtain advice from. And guess what? Some of them are also travel coaches getting players to college ball. Some of them get their high school players to college ball. Please note: There is no such thing as an elite middle school age travel team. Elite denotes college prospect.

quote:

Originally posted by bacdorslider:
If we could play summer/travel/select ball during the high school season, that would be ideal and HS baseball would not be needed....lets face it with budgets cuts and the economy I don't know for how much longer non revenue generating sports will be around anyway....
Every year people complain that the coach keeps too many kids, it's not about kids making the team and playing baseball, it's about kids making the money for the team, 15 players gens this much money, but 20 players gens another 25%
There are not as many players on the team in summer ball, the players are better, the competion is better, chance to be seen is better, scouts can see more kids at one tourney than traveling around. Hey this has been going on in high level HS basketball for 20 years....AAU teams , summer basketball that's were Caliperi goes to find them.

Great...just what we need...baseball to be more like "high level" basketball.