HS Coach Goes Ballistic-Curses Out Team (Audio)

It means you know how to duck and cover.

The fact that this tiraid was even posted in the "media" shows how far we have digressed.  It is much to do about nothing.  It was relatively mild.  A few f bombs and we all get our panties in a bunch.  Really?  

Ok I'll bite, I don't like all the f bombs, I don't like the calling out of specific players.  I like the passion just wish he had found different words.  I like that he expects more from his team.  I wish my son could have played for him.

JH today's kids are more entitled (thanks to their parents).  They are also in better shape, work just as hard if not harder and make more sacrifices to succeed than any players in the past.  MLB players today are bigger, stronger faster.  

also can we end the participation trophy talk.  No decent player past the age of 7 cares or wants a participation trophy.  If you son does that's on you not him.

All these kids are now traumatized because the coach cursed at them? Should he have cursed no but I find more troubling is the player or players who taped it and ran to the administration. It just reinforces my opinion of how soft the kids are today.

Personally , other than calling out individuals, I have no problem with it. Kids these days are so coddled by parents, teachers, coaches, etc. , that they have no accountability to anyone but their spoiled selves. Back when I coached, the first thing I told parents and kids was, I cuss, if that offends you , good day, good luck, we'll see you around the field.

Tom, 

You and I differ because I am OK with calling out individuals in that scenario - a team meeting.  I would guess his point was no one on the team is performing/giving effort

This guy has nothing on my football coach in HS.  If he didn't have F coming out of his mouth every other word then he was asleep.  One time when I was a sophomore we were having a terrible practice in August.  It was close to 100 degrees, we were in full pads, with reversible jersey on (so we were actually wearing two) and hadn't had a water break in about an hour due to our terrible practice.  Anyway, he calls us together and lays into us.  He said "you make me so mad I want to eat dirt".  Then he proceeded to reach down and grab a bunch of dirt (grass had been dead for several weeks) and ate it.  He literally chewed the dirt and then swallowed it.  Then he cussed us out with dirt flying out on every cuss word.  Another time he got us together and prayed for us.  In the prayer he said about every curse word and even created a few.  He was mean and at the time not fond of it but looking back it helped me to become tougher and more disciplined.  Could he have taught us the same things without cussing just as effectively?  No doubt - there are many ways to get this stuff done.  But there's no way in the world me and my buddies would have as many great stories to tell when we get together.  We had an alumni game couple weeks ago and I wasn't able to make it in.  But from reading facebook posts he was still the same and leading up to it everyone who played for him wanted him to come in at halftime and lay into them for old times sake.  I have fond memories of back then due to him (and many other things).  He called us out individually but he cared and while we got mad at him we got over it.  He helped turn us into men and into winners.  

My college baseball coach was a jack a$$ and we hated him.  On the surface you would think that he and my football coach were the same in how they acted but it was night and day.  He cussed us but you could tell he didn't care.  To him our winning was about making him look good instead of like in football where winning was about the team.  He would ridicule us in front of the team and even fans.  Me and my college baseball buddies still get together and tell stories about him like my football coach but it's not the same.  We tell them to remind ourselves how bad he was although we do enjoy our time together.

But you know what?  Both teams won.  In football we finished in final four and state runner up.  In baseball we finished second in conference both years I played for him.  Was it due to them or due to our talent I don't really know.  But in terms of helping me become who I am today they both had an impact.  My football coach taught me how to be a winner and my baseball coach taught me how not to be a loser.  At the end of the day that's what matters and this can be done even if the guy is a cusser as long as your players know you care.

As an administrator now I truly cannot defend a coach if a parent comes up complaining about their language.  I try to downplay it as best I can but at the end of the day if parents want to push it there's nothing I can do to make it go away.  Me telling the parent their kid needs to be tougher only makes the problem worse.  

In regards to the issue of kids today being weaker / entitled more I don't really know.  I think standards have changed for the worse in the environment they are brought up in.  But some days I think our future is in trouble because these kids don't get it.  Then other days I feel good knowing they will do great things.  That's the thing with kids - you never know one day what you're going to get.  With all people you don't know how mentally tough someone is until they have to be and I feel that overall most people are tougher than they think they are.  But even the best falter under the pressure sometimes.  There's only so much you can teach in terms of mental toughness but you can teach them how to get back up after they fall and everyone falls.  So maybe if this current kid generation is being raised weak - hopefully they have learned to get up strong because that's really the only other choice they have. 

Redbird, yea, I get that . Sometimes calling out players is a way to get their attention. In my experience, kids are very resilient, they hear , and move on. I have no problem with a coach getting his point across, kids want to win, but don't always give their best. Remember in Bull Durham when Crash tells Coach, they're kids, scare them . lol

How would you like to coach a player who was going to rat you out to others by taping you.  

Nowadays, I think that any coach or teacher has to always be under the assumption that they are being taped by a kid with an iPhone, and act accordingly.

Personally,  I think the coach is a weak-ass dick.  I understand sometimes needing to deliver a stern message.  But an old guy --- he looks pretty old -- he has to resort to cursing and yelling to reach and teach his players is pretty sad.   Imagine a class room teacher who had to result to  that sort of crap to motivate his/her students.  You think that would be tolerated? You think anybody would praise that teacher? 

Well, a HS baseball coach isn't an army general, he's essentially a teacher, leader, motivator.    Seems to me, he's utterly failed and is deeply frustrated by his failure. And what does he do, lash  out at his players with profanity.   If he lashed out at his friend or spouse or co-workers like that -- people over whom he had no power or no built-in expectation that they would just sit there and take it -- he'd get his sorry ass kicked up and down perhaps.    He exploits the fact that his players can't stand up for themselves, but have to just sit there and take it.   But that to me is a sign of weakness not of strength.  Respect is a two way street.  You want players to respect you,you respect  them back. You be honest with them, sure.  You let them know when they let you and themselves down.   But you don't have to treat them like this.  This wasn't about them.  This was about him.  They were just there to be the receptacles into which he could vent his frustration and anger. 

If you're not prepared for everything you do or say to be recorded these days, especially around kids who are never far from their phones, you're an idiot. If that means you have to add a layer of decorum, suck it up and do it, or live with the potential consequences.

Context is everything. I curse in front of my kids a lot. I don't curse in front of (or especially at) my students. My kids curse around me, they don't curse at school, or in front of their coaches. This ain't rocket science.

If I conducted myself like this coach does,  I'd be scared out of my wits.  But all the more reason not to behave this way.    Again, imagine a classroom teacher who talked to his/her students this way.  NOBODY would accept that from a classroom teacher.  Well,a HS baseball coach is essentially just a TEACHER whose classroom is the baseball field.   

Finally found time to listen to it...gotta say...doesn't really bother me at all.  I had a tough coach in HS, didn't get so foul-mouthed like this guys bu tough....I'm a better person for it.  This guy reminds me Lefthooks first HS coach his freshman year....He was ex-military, taught at a military academy and was extremely demanding...just like this guy.  My son loved him, my wife and I had no probs with the way he addressed the team or my son.  He left after his freshman year and then we got the complete opposite and are still dealing with the aftermath of that.  I can tell you that this years SR's, some who initially complained about the past coach, were sorely missing his coaching style. 

Could this coach have laid off the F' bomb a little..sure...is/was it a traumatizing event for those kids...I seriously doubt it.  I think it was more of an eye opener that some of them better work a little harder!

Have you been around HS age athletic kids in a locker room and heard they way they talk to each other?  The things they call each other and they way they talk are right in line with the way this coach talked to them.

slugger - when you get past that a coach, and teacher are both employed by a school district, the similarities stop.  You are correct, I don't expect a math teacher to talk to a student that way, however I am not shocked that a coach would, nor do I mind, in the context of what I heard on the recording.  The US Army has recruiting officers, and drill sergeants, both in the military, however their demeanors are quite different.

The way kids talk to each other is a completely different matter from the way a Coach talks to kids.  The kids are equals.  They will give as good as they get.  Coach is an authority figure. Players have no standing to talk back to Coach in the same way.  

You do know that the coach was suspended and has apologized for his language.   You think the school was wrong to suspend him and that he was wrong to apologize?

Seriously, what if a classroom teacher lashed out at his/her students like that?  Would you still find it acceptable?  Why is it unacceptable for a classroom teacher but acceptable for a coach -- who is just a teacher whose classroom is made of grass and dirt?

Schools, fortunately, don't agree with you.   A coach is a teacher,  Sports are not separate from the educational mission of the school.  It is an extension of it.  Coaches are not classroom teachers, but if they do not regard themselves as teachers, they should get out  of the youth coaching business.  period. 

The coach has been suspended  (and rightfully so)

http://www.whittierdailynews.c...y-laced-tirade-audio

Slugger, take out the F bombs and I have absolutely no problem if my kids math teacher gets in his arse to get him motivated.  I do not expect my kids' classroom teachers to approach, handle or talk to my kids the same way my kids athletic coaches do.  The classroom is a forced setting, kids have no choice.  Athletics is an optional setting, different expectations, desires and goals.  I find it hard to believe that the players who "opted" to play for this coach did not know that he is very passionate about his team and is very demanding when it comes to performance/winning.  It is a very widely accepted fact that coaches at that level coach to "WIN", not just participate, otherwise they won't be HC for long.

Does the suspension surprise me...no.  I am sure it was done to quell the outside attention of the player who did this and his parents.

Does his apology surprise me...no.  I am sure he would have do so internally in some way to his players and staff.

slugger - we are without a doubt going to disagree on this.  Of course the school suspended him, my coach in the early 80's would have been suspended, as would most of us on this site that had similar coaches in HS sports.  The reason this one is suspended and others from "back in the day" were not, is due to the fact that little "Johnny" just can't be talked to like that...the kids won't put up with it, nor will little "Johnny's" parents, in fact I would hope these parents have enrolled each player in that locker room into intense psychological counseling, and I further hope the parents of those kids are debating a class action law suit for potential disability caused from PTSD. 

Its a shame, since coaches like this are a dying breed, being made extinct by a political correct society, that eliminates opportunities for "teaching" moments with our young "men".  Had my father heard my HS coach had this after game talk, he likely would have said, "you probably deserved it, sounds like you boys were dogging it, and get your head out of your ass".

Slugger I respect your position and as an administrator now I would have to side with you but the personal side of me thinks this truly isn't a big deal in grand scheme of things.  If getting yelled / cussed at by a coach is the worst thing to ever happen to them they have lived a good life.  I can't truly say that how I was treated in high school will help me for bad times.  I think it did but I can't say definitively.  

You're right a teacher in a classroom shouldn't cuss out kids but you know what I've done it.  I had a kid who was a punk - smart and could do well but a punk.  He was giving all kinds of grief in class but not enough for me to send him to the office.  So one day early in the semester I walked back to where he was sitting by himself and turned my back to the class.  In a very low voice to where only he could hear me I told him if he didn't start behaving and acting right I was going to kick his a$$.  I said almost everything I could think of I would do to him if he kept doing what he was doing.  His eyes got bigger and bigger and finally he started shaking his head yes.  After that he gave me no problems rest of the time he was in my class and he always talked to me when he saw me in the hall.  After school that day I went and told the principal what I did just in case he (or his parents) wanted to complain.  Principal had no problem with it.  But I have no idea how it would have went down if he / parents had complained.  I felt the best way to reach that kid was to find a way to relate to him in ways he knew.  Whoever said it earlier in the thread to go listen to the music the kids listen to is right.  It's horrible and makes what this coach or what I said look like nothing.  

I find it very hypocritical for a parent to let their kids listen to this music and then get onto a coach for occasionally using profanity.  When I have kids doing some sort of group work in class I hear them dropping cuss words all the time.  When I get onto them about it they truly don't understand why it's wrong.  When our teams create pre-game music they don't understand why I won't allow cussing in it.  

I just don't understand why parents allow it in one aspect but get all bent out of shape in another.

First,  I doubt the kids are traumatized.  Like lots of people have said, their music is full of this sort of stuff.  

But the music isn't directed at them personally.   It's one thing to listen to a song that full of curse words, where none of them is directed at you.   It's another thing to be on the receiving end of a stream of profanity directed at you  (and your teammates) personally.

It's one thing for equals to get in a swearing contest with each other -- which could lead to blows eventually.   So even that is not good.  It's another thing to have a person with power over you,  directing such taunts and insults to you personally.  Especially when the power imbalance is so great.

Look there is nothing wrong with stern, directed messages.   But the profanity and also the ranting aren't really necessary, are counterproductive,  and probably aren't very effective.   They are more about the coach and his frustrations, than anything else.  He's just venting his rage and disappointment at  this point.   What's the point of that venting?  To make himself feel better?  To motivate his players?  I bet more  the former than the latter.   Wonder how good he feels now?     I bet he wished he had found a better, more effective, less damaging to himself and his players way of delivering a message. 

I think it's a sign of weakness and lack of real teaching and motivational skill that made him resort to that profanity.  He probably was at  least as mad at himself as he was his players. But he took it out on his players rather than  himself.   (It's a poor workman who blames his tools, you know.)

As for the players,  these are HS players in a competitive program in California.   I don't know this school first hand, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that these boys work their asses off to get where they are.  In these parts, many, many are called, but few  are chosen.  I suspect that most of them train all year round, play highly competitive travel ball, lift, condition,  take hitting instructions, pitching instruction, etc.  In short, they  have a level of dedication to their craft that kids of my generation -- and I was a three sport varsity athlete in HS, and a D1 varsity athlete --  though not in baseball cause that was my 3rd best sport --  all through college -- simply lacked.  Sure today's kids are in many ways coddled.  My HS wrestling coach used to walk around our practices with a knitting needle.  He'd stick it up your rear if he though you were dogging it during practice.  I thought "fucker" was his nickname for all of us --  he used  it so much.  But those were other  times. Times change.  But in terms of what players  give and go through to master their sports these days,  they are pretty damned awesome.  They deserve to be treated with respect and not belittled. (It is, I think, an unfortunate trend that kids specialize so early.    The three sport athlete is something of a dying breed  (though we do have two on our Varsity this year.  And in addition we have three others who are two sport  - but that's just 5 out of 24 who play a sport other than baseball) 

Random thought here - why are these profane words so profane?  What about them makes them so bad that we have a two page (and growing) debate as to whether we should use them?  I've always wondered about this.  Why is s**t worse than poop?  It meas the same thing but calling someone a s**thead is taken much differently than a poophead.  Ones insulting to the point some will fight over it while the other one is considered kinda cute.  

Battlestar Galactica came up with "frack" to get around not being able to use the F bomb.  Mothertrucker is acceptable over MFer although we're talking about the difference of two letters.

Coach2709,

I took what you said and just turned and called my wife a Fu*#$N B*&%H. She does not think they are just words, did not think it was kind of cute and I now have a lump on my head and I wish I had my cup on. 

Well, back in the day I had an English teacher.  Big guy, drafted by the Vikings.  He found out a bunch of students had cheated on a test.  Boy did he read us the riot act-- for an entire hour.  I got a D, no way I cheated, and I was scared chitless.  The guy was a fantastic teacher.   

So sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do.  It is sad that we are so overly sensitive in this day that teachers/coaches must walk on eggshells.  This tirade is nothing.  The reaction is a bunch of BS. 

You're 100% right.  They are just words.  In HS my coaches used the term "craphead."  Whenever you did something wrong, out came the "craphead" this and "craphead" that.  Us HS kids thought it was funny. 

There is the old Bob Knight video that explains how the F word can be used to express so many things.  Anger, surprise, dismay.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5-akqjKzII

And don't forget the newest curse word -- "Bob Saget."   

I think the coach is low-class, but shouldn't be fired.

IMO, profanity-laced music lyrics are also low-class.

A few points:

I don't think anybody would want to be recorded on their worst days.  I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt.  I think JH is spot-on.  Of course their are some entitled kids out there, just as there have always been.  I work in a school and the majority of the kids I see are respectful, diligent, ambitious, and work a lot harder than I ever did.

There are plenty of kids who are disrespectful, lazy, and unambitious too - just as there have always been.  I actually laugh out loud at the "kids these days" stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is6xa3UlTYs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY0_jeOUB6Q

Bolts, I was just going to post that video.

+1, 2, 3 and 4.

Coach May quote:

Like I said the F bombs I can live without. The passion?  I can't live without.

I agree with you Coach May! I want my son to play with the guy who has the passion!

Most parents don't want anyone to speak to their children using those type of words.  I get that, but that is not what happens in the real world.

If this bothers you as a player don't ever go to college and never consider  becoming a pro! If it bothers you and you are a parent of a HS, college player, or a paid professional, its not your game or your business!  Don't encourage your sons to tape, or video private conversations.

My son has probably played with more coaches/managers than anyone who has posted in this topic.  There are all sorts of guys out there, but DK will tell you that the best of them all are the guys who have fire in their belly and expect their players to play with that fire as well, if not, then they have got to understand that speeches/rants like this might often occur.  My son got trashed after one game in which he totally sucked in at the pitchers meeting after the game, he was embarrassed and he was mad at the coach for weeks. But he sure did clean up his act!!!!  He told me that he never wanted to be embarrassed like that ever again. He also knew that guy would do anything for his players, and often young players don't get that until they look back at those situations that helped them to better their game.

Some of you know who I am talking about and this coach, after 8 years still has a strong relationship with him. 

What bothers me is why the need to tape and send off this topic?  To embarrass the coach? If that is the reason, that player better also look at himself in the mirror and ask, what could I have done better! 

Great thread.  I guess everyone gets to choose through their own lens. I have enjoyed reading the posts from both "sides". 

Maybe it's Augie Garrido and a motivational speech and the team pulls together and achieves great things.  Players learn a life's lesson and it is with them forever.

Maybe the next step is an out of control coach and an assault on a minor.

None of us were there, or know the full context.  A few, or even multiple cuss words are ok for high school kids, doesn't bother me.  Chew their ass with a purpose.  But some of them could have been 14/15.  And if directed at them, maybe a good life lesson, or a story they can post on some future board about "the good old days". Or maybe effect them for life.  Or run them out of baseball or worse.

So, down vote on the coach, admin did the right thing.

I'm all for the passion.  If you are concerned about someone taping you, welcome to the good old days.  

I hope the coach had the below quote in mind and the team goes on to win state...

"There are two ways to build a team. You either get better players or get the players you've got to play better."

I think he is over the top for a HS coach.His mouth is disgusting. Yes my son heard it and worse in college, not that intense in the minor leagues. Not all players will play past HS.

I don't think his lashing is constructive at all. Yelling and getting on with it is one thing,telling a player F u is over the top.

At the same time my son would not want us involved. He would of just took it. Don't know if that is a good thing or not.

I swam highly competitively and had an old school coach. You knew when you messed up,didn't work hard enough, and he gave out the punishment. he never used profanity or got that personal. He got into me a time or two but in a way that to this day I admire and respect him.

Sluggerdad: I see where you're coming from. You make it perfectly clear here:

It's one thing to listen to a song that full of curse words, where none of them is directed at you.   It's another thing to be on the receiving end of a stream of profanity directed at you  (and your teammates) personally.

But think about it -- what IS the difference, really? Does the latter harm them in a way the former doesn't?

You're kinda equating words with physical abuse in a "one has the power, one doesn't" way.

Are they really the same? Not in my experience.

While I can't speak to this specific case, a song can't verbally abuse you, and a coach/teacher/parent/boss absolutely can, and there's an enormous difference between the two. Especially when it's an adult/child relationship, there can definitely be abuse that's just verbal.

Ok, I'm still in it.

For those appalled, I'll defer to TPM, in that if you do not like this, you should likely right, wrong, or indifferent, not play sports at the HS level or aspire to play beyond HS.

Does over the top exist?......You bet!  Had this been directed at one kid, for everyone to hear, yes not good, however he spread the wealth team wide.

Full disclosure:  Some may, or may not know, a while back I had a somewhat soul baring post regarding being a very over the top coach, you can search if you'd like to read.  Not as it related to my other players, but instead as it relates to my son.  This coach pales in comparison.  I'm not proud of it, and I made a personal promise to never be that guy again.  Some of the things I did was borderline abusive, if not completely so.  I was never that way towards my team, but my poor son had hell to pay.  Having said that, although I do not condone those words, or actions, BFS, Jr is who he is today in part because of the entirety of his young baseball career, both good and bad.  He has accomplished much, strives for much more, and has the admiration of his coaches, and players.  He has racked up many accolades in his young baseball endeavor, however one of the best compliments that was made, was when his coach sent a text to me a few months ago.  Quote: "apart from Jr.'s baseball talent, he is one of those special kids, with an  innocence that has never had a bad day". 

My point, is that I truly believe that even though some may not agree with the words used, there is valuable lessons to learn from accountability, gut checks, and passion.  This coach brought to light all of those.

Yes, there is unacceptable coaches behavior.....I have firsthand experience with that.  This my friends, is not that.

At the risk of continuing a thread that may be about played out (Great post, bds -- I remember that confessional) -- I have to ask you, jac:

If we stipulate that verbal abuse can be damaging -- i.e., over time in a marriage -- the question is, do you really believe THESE boys -- THESE high school baseball players -- are harmed in a permanent way by this?

If you say yes, I'll suggest to you that you might be part of the problem.

(And yes, I realize that might be hurtful. Take comfort in the fact that I didn't say F-ing deal with it.)

Not saying they are harmed by this ,it just shows no class.JMO

And to say those that don't see it their way better not play beyond HS, come on a 14,15 year old kid is a lot different than a 18-22 year old.

Being harmed isn't the issue, the issue is he is over the top.

Agree to disaqree.

And to say that a parent who doesn't like this is part of the problem is ridiculous.

So gut checks are great. Passion is the only way to play the game. But Your all saying that telling someone F u is a good thing??? Really

Glad Im not married to any of you)