HS Coach Goes Ballistic-Curses Out Team (Audio)

Whether or not the kids are traumatized isn't the point, whether it's appropriate for a HS baseball coach to behave like this is the point. It isn't.

 

And I like the scare quotes on boys, because we all know you can't be a real man unless you're willing to be screamed at by another real man. Oddly enough, my sons both seem to be doing fine without the adults in their lives popping a gasket at their failures.

Just for the record, all of these things (including the locker room rant) have been happening for as long as there have been kids.

Kids are different and parents are different as well. 

Yes, my point is that there are so many things for parents to worry about these days. For me (MY OPINION) some coach ranting on my sons team would be the least of my worries.

+1

There are also different opinions and they should be respected when someone gives one!

for many the only opinion that counts is their's and that causes a lot of problems.

More on the story in the local press:

 

 

http://www.whittierdailynews.c...but-well-intentioned

 

http://www.whittierdailynews.c...all-coach-kim-brooks

And part of the problem is that they think every "wrong" must be corrected. Just once I would like to see a school say "grow a pair" and move on.  

Of course they determine what is wrong. Grow a pair? They spend more time making excuses for poor performance. Why try to excel when everybody gets a trophy?  Unfortunately in the real world that is not the case.

I know that war is serious and Baseball is a game. But have you ever wondered why boot camp was so tough? Why the Drill Sgt was so hard on those young boys? Some coaches see a bigger picture. And they like anyone who is ultra competitive and passionate will push the limits. Baseball is a game but life is not. The same things that allow you to win at baseball translate to life itself. Protect your 18 year old in boot camp?

It's not a bad thing for your son to be put in situations that challenge him. I stand by my previous posts. Coach needs to clean up his vocab. Keep the passion.

He apologized!
Funny how life is.  Those bb players who cheated taking steroids apologized and were forgiven immediately but this guy is bad news?
This is my point..where do we draw the line as to what I ok and not ok? 
Different strokes for different folks.
Why are the players supporting him if he is bad news?
Anyway there are always two sides to every story.
I agree with Coach May. Bad words unnecessary but not the passion.

Unnecessary - yes.  Abusive - no.  I like someone else's description that they are used more like exclamation points on a statement.  

 

Sounds like opposing coaches as well as the players and the students all supported this guy.  He's obviously not a demon dressed as a baseball coach.

Does one black eye offset years of good?  I've never said he should use this language but that it's not that big of a deal.  Look at the articles - everything is pro Brooks.

 

1.  The former students said they loved his class and how he taught

 

2.  The community came out in support of him

 

3.  Starting pitcher said it was out of character for him to do this

 

4.  The guys said they weren't offended by this

 

5.  The coach apologized BEFORE all this blew up

 

6.  He goes above and beyond as a teacher for his students

 

Several other things in the article but these stood out to me.  When does the offense outweigh the good?  In this thread we have compared this action to racism, Hitler and all kinds of crazy stuff yet the people who it affected aren't bothered by it.  They seem to have moved on.  Sometimes people become "victims" because those who aren't in the situation talk them into being "victims" due to that's how they see it.  Maybe if we talked to people more instead of rallying to defend them without talking to them we would be more productive in society.

 

This molehill was literally blew into a mountain and all of us on here were at fault because we all chimed in before knowing how it would affect the people in the locker room.

Thing about the coach is that unlike the old school guys here,  he actually felt bad about what he did,  immediately regretted it, it seems, and apologized to his team.  He took responsibility for his actions.   Players forgave him.   That makes me have respect for him.  Some of you old school wannabe's who seem to think think a good chewing out with profanity is just the right thing at times, probably are wondering why he bothered to apologize.  I mean if he was perfectly in the right,  calling his players out in a profanity-laced tirade, then what exactly was there to apologize for?   Think he's gone all soft and new-agey on us or something? 

Atta boy - way to totally miss the point we were trying to make.  Nobody has encouraged this type of behavior - they just said it wasn't that big of a deal which it turned out not to be.  I think it's a great thing he did apologize and I'm glad more of the story came out to give us a better picture but at the end of the day it comes down to that it was not that big of a deal.  I've said things in field and classroom that I apologized for the next day.  Once again when does the offense outweigh the good?  

Drill sergeants aren't allowed to do what this coach did anymore. Source, source. Note that this policy goes back to at least the 90s.

 

You can run a HS team, and a bootcamp, without telling your players "fuck you" and still accomplish your goals.

You weren't one of the ones who failed to see that the coach had done something wrong.  You said as an administrator you understood the school's actions.   So I wasn't actually referring to you.  

Three points -

 

1) No one has said that coaches should not try to motivate or cannot yell to make points.  Teaching kids and giving them feedback about effort, practice and results is all part of that.  The issue is the tactics and to some degree I think the likely frequency of Mr. Brooks actions. 

 

2) Why does anyone question the effort or toughness of the players?  This is a voluntary activity that they have probably committed a couple thousand hours to in the 6-8 years prior to reaching HS and in HS probably another 500+ hours or more per year.  It is non sense to think players want to lose, do not put work into it or somehow are laying down on their coach for some irrational selfish motivation.  

 

3)  Any discussion with 12-15 or more people involved and in the workplace (yes HS baseball is a workplace for coaches) should have no expectation of privacy.  Why is that so tough to understand?  If anyone here never talked to their son about what the coaches are talking about I would be stunned.    

 

Random thought - I wonder how he'd react to me standing next to the fence while he was sitting on the bucket during the game and screaming at him..."You know coach you must really fxxxing suck because your team plays like horsesXXX." or maybe "Coach your team is a fxxxing embarrassment to the town." I bet he'd love this "Coach it looks to me like the best part of your coaching might have landed on the bed sheet" and I went on and on abusing him for just 2 innings. 

 

Do you think he would sit there and take it as a "passionate motivational speech by a caring fan" or get pissed?  I am guessing B and I might have a fight on my hands.  If correct, why would anyone on the other end of his crap be different? 

 

What would happen if a player tells the coach "fxxx you."  He's gone in a NY minute and everybody is talking about how lazy, disrespectful and terrible today's kids are and the coach was right to drop that troublemaker, cancer, selfish good for nothing.

 

Seems to me he got what the player would have for saying the same thing to him. 

 

 

 

 

Players don't tell coaches fyou...there is a hierarchy that determines, who gets to do the bitching.

 

I can't read minds, or make assumptions....however is it possible he knew that there would be those rallying for his head on a platter, so he apologized to save his job?  Would you still respect him if that was the case?

Definitely Abusive.  Totally uncalled for.  The kind of thing that can get you sued for creating a hostile work environment under Federal Civil Rights laws.   Not acceptable at all by a person in power toward a person under his or her power.   Outdated and ineffective.   Plus totally pointless.

We've already determined that the workplace is different from the locker room.  NO ONE will EVER get sued under the Federal Civil Rights laws for saying F*** you to someone or cursing at them.  That is just a ridiculous comment. I understand people have different views about this, but to make a comment that someone is committing a federal civil rights crime by cursing at someone is just out of touch.  Come on SluggerDad.

 

I'm doing my best to back out of this thread.  I hope I can accomplish my goal.

Literally?

Yes, call Jackie Chiles, he will get right on it!! (any Seinfeld fans?)

It's not a CRIME -- it would be a CIVIL suit. And believe me, if you go about cursing at your employees or those whom you supervise  on a regular basis,  you'd better expect to be in hot water.  (especially if those employees are members of some "protected class."   To be precise, the law doesn't in general prevent you from being a jerk to your employees but it does prevent you from being a jerk to them because of their race or gender.  You'd have a tougher time suing a general purpose jerk than you would have a suing a racist,sexist, bigoted jerk of any kind.  But that's not to say you could never sue the general purpose jerk.  

We haven't actually determined that the workplace and locker room are different enough environments to allow this behavior, and the US military thinks it's inappropriate for boot camp, so I'm not really sure how it could be appropriate for a HS locker room.

 

Also, coaches being sued for various reasons (won't bother with the coaches suing players): here, here, and here.  Note that I'm not making a comment on the appropriateness of these lawsuits, or whether one would be appropriate in this particular case, but the idea that there's no way a coach could get sued for this is definitely wrong.

Figure of speech

No, it's not. It has a specific meaning and using as a figure of speech is a direct contradiction to what that meaning is.

And where did that happen here???  Why even bring something like this up when it doesn't even remotely apply???  Just to continue to stir the waters??  Everyone has a right to their opinion, but not to just make stuff up.

Don Haskins  - one of the meanest SOB coaches ever born.  NO player ever played for him that at some point didn't hate his guts.  As old school as they come.  He played for Coach Iba in the 50's.  He went on to beat Adolph Rupp in the National Championship in 1966,  the first time any NCCA team started 5 black athletes. 

 

Coach Haskins was known for his famous tirades on his players after games, and during halftime.  When he died, it was reported in the El Paso Times, that more former players attended his funeral than any other head coach before. 

 

"I remember the first time I met him I was kind of scared," Tim Hardaway said. "I was looking into the eyes of the bear and I was mumbling, but after the meeting, I thought 'he wasn't that bad.' As a coach, he was great coach but he was a better person." 

Still, Hardaway said he will miss most the quieter moments with the man who had become a beloved friend, trading stories about family and about life. "I'm just saddened to hear that a great person, a great coach has passed away," he said. "My prayers go out to his family. It's a sad day in the basketball family because one of the great ones is gone."

 

"The word unique does not begin to describe Don Haskins," former Texas Tech coach Bob Knight said. "There is no one who has ever coached that I respected and admired more than Don Haskins. I've had no better friend that I enjoyed more than Don Haskins."

 

John Wooden was different than Haskins, but obviously Haskins approach compared to Wooden, did not affect how his players felt about him, any different than Wooden's approach.  The sad narrative to my post, is guys like this are going to be extinct, killed off by those who believe that fyou equals abuse or civil rights violations, or that a locker room should be the same as the break room....sad indeed.

 

From the articles that have come out, it appears the players on this HS team have no problems with the approach of their coach either.

 

Oh please forgive my transgression in the choosing of my words in order to express my thought.  Due to your great wisdom and intelligence I have now learned a great and valuable lesson.  Please find it in your power to grace me with wonderful compliments and maybe a unicorn or two.  I really enjoy rainbows I wish a million of them to grace you and yours for your wonderful contributions to this message board.

 

That's sarcasm above - pretty sure I nailed it.

Or you could hire my cousin, His name is Vinny

The point was that just this sort of thing, said in a work context,  to certain people  (or even just in the hearing of certain people, even if not directed to them)  can, in fact, get you sued out the whazoo, in Federal Court.  Even if you don't intend to offend, or intend to single out certain people, it can still get you sued  (and successfully).   So, just from a practical stand point,  probably not a good idea to go about using this sort of language.  

Anyone can sue anyone for anything in our society, but that is a whole can of worms I don't even want to open up in this thread.  That doesn't make this case a civil rights issue, either civil or criminal.  I think it would be best to stick to the specifics of this situation.

Yes, let's be an ass.

Mission accomplished. BTW you started this by nitpicking a very, very small mistake that didn't take away from my point.  

The players passed around the recording because they thought it was funny. Based on this I don't think they felt threatened. They also passed it around as a reminder they can play better. Parents vouched for the coach as a good teacher who also pushes students in the classroom. Those poor players and students to have such as awful person in their life. Someone who is passionate about their finding success.

 

Only the words were wrong. Some people motivate by getting excited and passionate.

How mature..."you started this."

 

It's not nitpicking. You said something that was the opposite of what you meant. That happens all too often here, and with people looking to read into things as it is, you should realize that things like that become firestarters in a hurry. In this thread alone, there are at least three times where someone is immaturely mischaracterizing or adding ludicrous, nonexistent points to someone's argument to tear them down.

Yet you never critiqued any of them for their transgressions.  So why did I get to be the lucky one?

Slider - What if after he F'us the player the player F'us him?  I think it is not reasonable to expect a 16/17 year old to take on a coach that controls everything and get anywhere productive but that is my opinion.

If this guy has a substantial record without this kind of history, recognized he was out of line and was out in front of this before it hit the air then I am OK with a 2nd chance on a very short leash.  Respect him....I doubt that is going to happen.  He blasted people that cannot defend them selves so nothing to respect there, ever. 

 

The thing is he would be a very unusual cat to have a spleen blow like this years into coaching and for it to be his maiden voyage.  Plus as PG stated earlier there was a lot of me and I in his rant.  Seems a little inconsistent.

 

PG statement about a lot of me, is not what the majority of this post has been about, it has been about the ass chewing....if the statements were not about him and directed soley on the player, then the f'you's are ok???....not getting where you are going with the PG statement.

 

If coach f'yous the player, and the player f'yous the coach, the player is gone....their is chain of command that goes along with who does the disciplining, same in my house, I discipline the kids, not the reverse...hope that is the same in most parent's houses.  I think it is VERY reasonable to expect 16/17 year olds to begin learning to take on a coach that controls everything...HE is the coach, HE is the boss....HE learns that now, or does not play very long.

 

The respect comment I made, was directed at someone else on here saying they now respect him because he apologized....my comment was, maybe he was out in front of the line, because he knew the witch hunt was brewing...if so, nothing to respect.