HS Coach Goes Ballistic-Curses Out Team (Audio)

Why does it have to be a good or bad question at all? Some will say it's good; others will disagree.

 

The question is, was it harmful.

fan,

 

Although there are words that carry terrible meanings, i.e as it relates to race, religion etc., I think you are placing way too much meaning in the F bomb.  Again, I can understand someone not fond of curse words, but I would not lose sleep over that one.  

I'm not losing sleep. I am offended if someone says F u to me. I can take critical comments, I can be told I am not doing my share, not showing heart.

 

Maybe its a girl guy thing?

 

I have no dog in the fight anymore, my son is finished with his career. His HS years were 4 of the best years ever in his entire career that spanned D1 PAC 12 Minor leagues.

 

They won the first ever section title for their HS, they had passion, it didn't have to be F u into them.

 

Its a discussion, people have different viewpoints.

 

It would become personal if anyone said F u to me.I don't like it .F u and F bomb are two different things to me. F bombs can be appropriate at times,but F U never in my mind.

 

 

Fan I totally understand. And for the record those words are not in my vocabulary anymore. In fact many things are not. But that's another story. I remember my career as a Police Officer. We were taught many things in the Academy. One was how to command respect with your presence and verbal commands. MF FU etc was not taught to us. It was "Halt Police" "Police Officer Stand Down" Etc Etc. Then I got on the street and was trying to take down an armed suspect who was running from a shooting and my training officer shouted "Stop MF or Im going to blow your Fing Head off!" Well the guy fell down and gave it up.

 

I later learned from experience that sometimes certain words carry a far greater meaning under certain circumstances. And sometimes the sure fire way to make someone understand that you are deadly serious is to go to that place they will surely understand you are serious.

 

Anyway I have enjoyed the conversation.

Coach May,

I know you, I know your heart.  I know the man you are. And as a cop dealing with what you dealt with now that is a different conversation entirely.

 

Always great to have good discussions with respect and consideration for each others beliefs and values.

 

Hope your family is well. We are good, very blessed.))

 

 

 

 

Thank you Fan. The family is doing well and I am so glad to hear the same about yours.

I don't see the big deal about the coach's speech. They must've played lousy and the coach let them hear it. However, after a few minutes, I'm sure most of them tuned him out anyway. The player taping it, not so good.

Great post Coach..... I think Coach used a great example...meaning sometimes you have got to get on the same level as the person(s) you are dealing with.  Sometimes that means using language that you wouldn't normally use, but one that you know will get their attention.  One that you know they will understand because it is the common spoken type of language amongst that group.

 

I used to curse a lot more before I had kids.  I will once in a while now, but while my kids were growing up, I just didn't do it around them.  Not a huge fan of it around kids, however, by the time they get to HS, they will be exposed to it anyway.  I'm fine with that.  I'm sure my kids curse now, but never around us or other adults, which I think is a good respectful thing.  

 

With that being said, I think athletes need a good butt whoopin' every now and then.  I know it's not HS, but this year my son's college team started the season 3-5 and had lost their 1st conference game.  Usually, it's the head coach who liked to cuss guys out, but after this loss, one of the more calm, friendly assistants just went off on the kids.  My son said he went on for about 20 minutes and totally went ballistic on the team.  Yelled and cursed so much, he lost his voice.  From that point on, the team went 37-12 to wind up with a 40-17 record, was ranked #10 in the country at the end of the season, played right up thru the championship game in the NCAA regionals and won every single series they played from that point on.  They won every conference series during the year, which had never happened in the coach's 17 year history which included a team that won a National Championship and finished runner-up another year.  

 

People say this doesn't work, that it is just a coach venting his frustrations on other people.  Maybe there is some of that in there, but it can also be an effective strategy.  Sometimes just being nice doesn't work.  Sometimes just talking things out doesn't work.  Sometimes you have to go to war - like it or not.

This topic comes up every so often and I still don't get it.

 

If the Biology teach told the kid that got a 52 on the midterm you are a f'ing idiot and need to work harder in front of the whole class they would not be considered "passionate" (crap cop out BTW) they would be considered unprofessional.  Coach of any sport in HS same thing.  This guy should be dumped immediately and without question and if he is a teacher he should face discipline in that position as well and perhaps terminated there.  

 

The recording and shaming of these animals needs to go on until it stops for good at the HS level in ALL sports.

 

For what it is worth, the Baby boomers of which I am one have done infinitely more damage to this country than any generation.  Today's kids have been left with a harder world because we have botched up many things.  We are the spoiled and selfish generation and if we raised our kids that way...big surprise.

Baseball is a team sport, biology is not.  If a student gets a 52 on a biology midterm, he alone lives with the consequence of that.  It doesn't affect the other students performance or their future in the field, nor the teachers.  Baseball is not like that.  If a player isn't performing it affects everyone on the team and it affects the team's and coaches future.  If the poor performance is due to lack of effort or focus or attitude or composure, or whatever, a good butt kicking can be very effective.  This is time-tested in sports going back to Lombardi and many, many others.  I'm fine with this and in fact would be disappointed if my son's coach took losing and poor performance calmly and as "oh whatever".  As far as foul language, I think this is overblown too.  I don't use it but I'm not offended by it.  This isn't church, it's sports, and sports involves roughness and toughness and physicality.  I agree with those that said this type of language can be very effective at quickly getting one's attention.  The only part of this I have trouble with is saying F U to a player or players - that is an unnecessary attack and is never acceptable.

Hate to get into politics, but if our generation screwed things up, maybe it's because we're the generation that came up with the participation trophy, not keeping score in games, outlawing dodgeball, winding up with the highest numbers of people on welfare and depending on government programs than any other generation, winding up with more national debt than any other time in the history of the country, being politically correct to the point where you can't make a comment about anything without getting shamed for it....  I can go on and on.  I don't think our generation, as a whole has done things the right way. 

 

This guys is old school.  If anyone doesn't think that our generation has done things the right way, maybe we need to go back to the way it used to be done in many, many ways.  I agree with you luv baseball.  We have screwed things up.  What this coach did in this instance is not one of those things.  Not being able to do this is one of the things that we have screwed up.  Kids need to hear the truth when they don't do good.  They need to have someone be harsh with them at times.  They need to be held accountable for their actions.  A locker room and a class room are two different places with different expectations.  If a kid walks around tackling other students in a classroom, he would be expelled.  If he tackles other students on a football field, he is applauded and may earn a big scholarship.  Two different environments and they shouldn't be compared.

Great post bballman!

Not a great post  bballman.  A HS locker room IS a classroom.  A HS coach IS a teacher.  HS sports are not business, the way professional sports are.  They don't exist for entertainment purposes primarily.  They exist solely as a function of the teaching mission of the HS.  If HS coaches don't get that they are teachers, they don't belong there.  Look most HS athletes will play their last game in HS.  HS sports aren't primarily about preparing young athletes for college or the pros.  It's about preparing them for life -- the same way that the what goes on in the classroom is about preparing them for life. 

 

Plus what in god's good name does a grown man swearing at teenage kids have to do with holding them accountable?  Absolutely nothing. Is that how you hold your employees accountable, by swearing up and down in their faces just to vent your sense of frustration and rage?

I don't get it either.  Well,  I sort of do.   These guys who go on and on about how a locker room is not  a classroom are the ones who are pretty clueless. They are stuck in some other day, I suspect. They remember fondly their abusive coaches of old.  I remember those guys too -- but not so fondly.    I think their nostalgia for the good old days means that they don't have a clue, basically, about how a  contemporary educational institution in the 21st century functions.  They tend to think of a coach as akin to a drill sergeant or something, rather than a HS teacher.  They seem to believe different rules for the treatment of teenagers  should apply to coaches than to teachers in general.  

 

Good luck to them with that point of view.  They may not realize it, but they are just pissing  in the wind.  There isn't a school district in this country, I suspect, that would put up with this sort of behavior from coaches anymore. And with good reason, I believe. 

bball - not suggesting for a moment that poor performance is acceptable or shouldn't be challenged.  But John Wooden could dress down some of the all time great players without ever uttering a foul word or raising his voice, and he was dealing with men and not 16 year olds.

 

The screaming and cursing are nothing more and nothing less than abusive...always have been in 1914 or 2014.  There is nothing to be proud of by screaming and cussing at a 16 year old.  It is embarrassing and shameful behavior by someone who is supposed to be a role model and leader of young men.  I have said this every time this comes up...this is a school related activity and as such the rules governing what happens in the building govern what happens everywhere the school business is done.  

 

Also please do not talk about college, the army or jobs in the future.  When people are adults and enter contracts in the world it is not the same as being a trapped audience as a teenager. 

 

I just can't buy into the "Old school" notion that somehow that was ever acceptable.

It's been a few days since this appeared on the board and I have since thought about my failure to get my kids to clean up after themselves around the house, I've wondered what would happen if I took this approach. Lord knows I have felt the way this coach did but I guess restraint is still the better part of valor.

It was abusive.  How many adults in your own kids life would you allow to curse and yell at your son face to face like that just to get some frustration off their chest?   IF your 16 or 17 son came to you and the told you that your 50 year old neighbor was cursing and yelling at him like that, what would you say to you son?  Deal with? Sit there and take it like a man and learn from it?  

Obviously, this is a topic that people are going to have to disagree on.  Opinions are too strong on both sides.  I'll stick with my comments.  I just don't think having high expectations and trying to get kids to give their all is a bad thing.  And sometimes it takes more than what is expected in a classroom.  And I will never stop thinking that a locker room/athletic field is different than a classroom.  The kids are learning in both environments, true.  But they are learning different lessons and the methods to learn those lessons are different.

slugger,

 

after a quick cursory tally it appears this posts stands at:

 

25 posters have no problem with it

 

you, luv, fan, mcm, jac, oldskool, coach25 are against

 

Rather telling.

 

 

 

 

To be honest with you Slugger?  The first question I would ask is "What did YOU do?".  If he did something he shouldn't have, yeah, I would probably tell him he deserved it and don't do it again.  

And that's supposed to show what exactly? 

Yep and in 1950 you would have found 75% of people were fine with segregated schools.  They were out of touch then and just didn't know it.  Things change and generally for the better and this is one of those things that needs to happen.

bball - I think we agree more than you think....difference in opinion is in tactics not accountability.  Hang with'em.

Yeah, because the majority's opinion is always right...

 

If you can't motivate your players without cursing at them, you should consider looking into another line of work. You should be benching or cutting them before you reach this point. That applies to a lot more than just HS sports, too.

 

Around here, HS coaches are required to be teachers in the school district (preferably at the actual HS). There's literally no way my son's HS coaches would still have a job after a rant like this. Oddly enough, they don't have any trouble running a successful program despite never cursing at the kids, and rarely even yelling at them.

 

And this BS that "this generation" is coddled or entitled is absurd. Kids, and their parents, haven't changed.  I heard the same crap as a kid, and I know my parents did, too, and yet each generation of parents somehow discovers that it's their kids' generation that's the problem. Not their own kids, of course, or their parenting, heaven forbid.

OK I don't get this - just because you had a bad experience / memories of this time means that our fond recollection of them makes us wrong - how is that?   How is me remembering those times fondly make me clueless?  I have no doubt that my coach treating me that way helped me to become a stronger person along with what my parents (who could light me up as well) did.  Just because you didn't enjoy or get anything out of that time doesn't make you right in judging this as wrong.  If you believe this is wrong that is fine because you can make that choice but to say we are clueless is wrong.  This approach works but so does a lot of other ways.  A coach has to know how to reach his kids / team.  

 

Same as a teacher.  I've lit classrooms up before when I felt like they were dogging it.  Granted I didn't cuss but I didn't hold back on how I felt their effort and performances were.  Every year my test scores are typically some of the best and I get the worst kids in the school.  Now  I'm teaching AP classes and guess what?  They sometimes dog it and get lazy.  So I light them up.  Last year was my first year teaching this AP class and it was also the first time in about 3 or 4 years anyone passed the AP test.  I have kids tell me all the time they would rather have my class than the other teachers because they know I'm funny in class, I work them hard in class and I light them up in class when they need it.  When I was at my other school I taught the exact same class as the guy beside me.  He was nice and never yelled or said anything negative but his kids would get out of his class and come over to my class to get the content.  I think a lot of classroom problems would go away if teachers would be more stern and demanding out of their kids.  

 

I'm not advocating teachers / coaches (I agree they are the same) should be allowed to go on cussing / yelling tangents whenever they want.  It's like anything else - you do it too much then it loses it's effect.  We don't even know if this was a one time incident with this coach or regular.  If it's regular then I can see some discipline being involved because you will lose your team but if this is a once a year or ever so many years then it's not that big of a deal.  

Kumbaya, Kumbaya, Kumbaya.

 

Face it.  The fact is that humans respond to pain.  When make purchases based on pain.  We eat based on pain.  We go to work based on pain.  Everything we do is a response to pain or potential pain.   

 

Sometimes that pain is a good butt chewing. 

slugger,

 

after a quick cursory tally it appears this posts stands at:

 

25 posters have no problem with it

 

you, luv, fan, mcm, jac, oldskool, coach25 are against

 

Rather telling.

 

What does it tell?

 

That is really a ridiculous comment.Rather telling ? Like our belief is ignorant or behind the times??

 

As I said before a coach saying you played like ....., or get your heads out of your a... Your playing like f I can hang with as it is what it is. Again saying F YOU to a players face,is never ok to me. It should not be Ok .Its appalling that parents think their sons being told F U to perform and maybe get to the next level because they are tough is so ridiculous.

 

My son played in the minor leagues for two seasons and was NEVER spoke to like this.Sure they had team meetings, one night after a horrible game and being at the field since one, game at 7,they had a practice at 1030 pm to go over the basics.They never said F U to any player.

 

Anyway enough said.

 

 

You guys can have at it, comparing an old school coach to segregation, racism, heck I am sure it is also akin to to what Hitler did.

 

We are not raising young boys to become men....being able to take a harmless but chewing is part of it.

 

Say goodbye to a dying breed:

 

 Say hello to our future men:

 

 

I bet you guys are mad at me....you might even want to cuss at me,....but I'm glad you won't, that just would not be right.

My dad and mom would both ask me what I did to deserve it.  If the neighbor was wrong they would tell me to ignore it because it only becomes harmful if the people around you talk you into it thinking it's harmful.  

 

Couple of years ago I ripped a kid on the sideline during a football game without cussing and really nobody in stands knew it.  I stood beside him with our backs to the stands and lit into him.  He failed to put any effort into something we worked on all week and the result was the play got blew up.  His mom called for a meeting with me, head coach, AD at the time, principal and few others.  This is a mom who NEVER wanted her kid to get yelled at or disciplined or anything by anyone.  Through elementary, middle school and JV sports she has ran off coaches because they tried to get onto him for poor effort.  She tried to railroad me in this meeting but I wouldn't have any of it.  I told her I wasn't going to change the way I coached and if she didn't want her son to be around that then take him off the team.  After the meeting was over the boy apologized for his mom acting like that.  He was embarrassed she wanted to get onto me over that.  He ended up getting an offer to play college football and was doing well.  Story he told me is he quit about two thirds through the season because he didn't like one of the coaches.  I may be wrong but he quit because he didn't have the fire to excel because nobody was allowed to challenge him and get more out of him .  Maybe he never had it to begin with and was never going to get it but it was definitely not allowed to be tried to put into him.

I never compared it to racism, or segregation.

Again I didn't say a butt chewing was an issue I said saying F U is an issue.

Not very telling at all....unless you assume everyone with an opinion feels compelled to post it.

For some reason, the folks who accept this particular coach's abusive rant seem to think that those who reject it don't believe in accountability or high standards or pushing kids.  

 

High standards and accountability are not at issue here.  If you think this kind of thing is the only way to hold players accountable to high standards, then you really have a pretty limited imagination.    But I can't believe anybody really has so little imagination or creativity that they can't think of less abusive and more effective and powerful ways to get  a message across and hold players accountable than this crap.   So I suspect that something else is really going on -- some kind of rebellion against the drift of contemporary times.  

A locker room isn't a classroom.  And baseball isn't a class - it's an extracurricular activity.  And a coach isn't necessarily a teacher (many aren't).  And there's no grades on the report card for baseball.  So to ascribe your narrow set of "classroom rules" and bring politics, civic activism ("let's all record things we don't like and post on the internet") into a discussion on sports is what's ridiculous and clueless.  This discussion is about what's appropriate behavior for a coach.  You are free to disagree with what he said or how he said it, but it has nothing to do with biology class.

 

And with regard to your opinion of the good old days and 21st century education - today's education stinks and doesn't hold a candle to what was offered 30 years ago, at least in California.  Sometimes the way things have always been done don't need fixing.

Hmmm...abusive, degrading attitude and behavior toward other disempowered human beings is acceptable to a majority of people.  I think it fits and is precisely why I choose that analogy.

 

The point is that at one time segregation was "old school" and supported in law.  It changed because change is generally good.  This unacceptable behavior on school grounds is not as egregious as barring the school house door but is totally unacceptable now as segregated schools were (in the good old days) 75 years ago.  Peoples attitudes just haven't caught up yet.  Someday they will and the video of this coach and others like him will speed that day.  

Does anyone know...was this a first time this happened.  Why was it recorded?

Slugger, I haven't heard anyone here say that this is the ONLY way to hold people accountable.  Everyone that has spoken on this issue has said that it is A way to hold people accountable.  There are many tricks in the bag and this is just one of them that can be used in conjunction with the others.

 

fan, I understand what you are saying.  But if you go back and listen, I think what this coach was doing was really more saying F*** you to the action than to the person.  "You can't dive for a ball in the infield, f***you.  You can't make a routine play, f*** you."  He was talking about what they were doing more than talking about the person.  That's my take anyway.

Smitty - The results of the educational system are a whole other can of worms.  But more of those kids are better equipped to function in the world that is coming than you think.

While sports are an extracurricular activity and not exactly the same as the classroom they are sponsored and governed by same entity ..the School Board.  The rules laid down for behavior apply despite any opinion to the contrary.  I doubt the sports coaches have any written permission to be abusive and any School Board Charter in the USA.  Slice it up any way you want but it is just a fact.

 

As for the video of things we don't like and want changed...it is a tactic that works well.  Fire hoses and police dogs being turned on blacks in the South turned America's attitude about civil rights.  Soldiers in body bags on the 6 O'clock news ended Vietnam.  Bad behavior never stands the light of day....ever.  This won't either.  The viral video is a 21st Century news outlet.

 

 

And I REALLY can't even believe that a verbal butt whoopin' is being compared to segregation.  It is so ludicrous it's beyond belief to me.  Segregation involved governmental LAWS that would not allow a race of people to do certain things.  By LAW they could not sit in the front of the bus.  By LAW, they could not drink at the same water fountains.  By LAW, they could not vote.  That is SO MUCH different than someone sitting in a room listening to a coach telling them they played a baseball game without heart.  There is no LAW that says the player has to sit there and listen.  There is no LAW that would put them in jail if they decided not to play baseball.

 

Come on guys.  This comparison is so far out of bounds as to border on the ridiculous.