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13u.  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made. He's a catcher so maybe it would have been different if he played somewhere else - certainly if he pitched. But as a receiver, I'm glad I walked him past 13u. Pitchers actually throw 90% over the plate instead of bouncing their pitches in the dirt 10' in front of the plate, they hold runners better so he has a chance to throw them out, and there appears to be less drama - more dugout fun and less 'can I play on this field' concerns. Curious about the experiences other catching families had on the big field jump. 

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Fall is a great time for experimentation, especially with the change to the big field.  Things are a lot more loose and laid back in the fall.  Things will change again in the spring. Once he reaches HS I would have him play in his class, except for maybe a special event every once in a while.  Have him work on his flexibility, getting more agile, quicker and stronger.  Good luck to your son moving forward!

4seamer, you didn't just jump him over 13u, you skipped 12u as well.

 

I just had my son skip 13u, but it was so he could play with his grade and get on the big field, plus he's 5'9, he really had no business swinging anything but a BBCOR!

 

The transition has gone well.  His throw downs are spot on from behind the plate, and while he has seen a major improvement in pitching accuracy from 12u he has noticed that the backstops seem to have gotten MUCH further away!  His curve ball breaks better than ever from the mound, and he's still able to hit the gaps to both sides, plus he loves that the gaps are even bigger!

 

No complaints about skipping over 13u from him, as for me, I like that he isn't the biggest one on the team anymore :- )

Originally Posted by 4seamer:

13u.  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made. He's a catcher so maybe it would have been different if he played somewhere else - certainly if he pitched. But as a receiver, I'm glad I walked him past 13u. Pitchers actually throw 90% over the plate instead of bouncing their pitches in the dirt 10' in front of the plate, they hold runners better so he has a chance to throw them out, and there appears to be less drama - more dugout fun and less 'can I play on this field' concerns. Curious about the experiences other catching families had on the big field jump. 

I don't know.  Around my parts, no 12u kid is going to be able to complete at 14u.  Can he throw to 2B on a line, no rainbow?  Otherwise, I'd be worried about some bad mechanical habits creeping in. 

Is he playing fall ball in little league or local travel team? 

Was it a tryout situation? So will he play w 14 yr olds in Spring as an 12 yr old? How's his hitting?

 

just remember many K kids start school reading, but by second grade they are all rdg

son is ahead of age peers now but other kids usu catch up. Good luck making the best of the opportunity of being there early. 

Originally Posted by 4seamer:

13u.  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made. He's a catcher so maybe it would have been different if he played somewhere else - certainly if he pitched. But as a receiver, I'm glad I walked him past 13u. Pitchers actually throw 90% over the plate instead of bouncing their pitches in the dirt 10' in front of the plate, they hold runners better so he has a chance to throw them out, and there appears to be less drama - more dugout fun and less 'can I play on this field' concerns. Curious about the experiences other catching families had on the big field jump. 

I'm a big proponent of raising the bar and taking every advantage of being able to play at a higher level as I feel it can only be a positive.  By doing so, you learn whether he can succeed at a higher level or not.  If he succeeds, then you look for more opportunities to raise the bar.  However, I would not "push" him to these levels as it should be your son's decision that he can enjoy what he wants to do.  The players that really succeed are those who have the drive to push themselves where they want to go. And your support in helping him achieve what he wants will go a long way towards his success.

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by 4seamer:

13u.  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made. He's a catcher so maybe it would have been different if he played somewhere else - certainly if he pitched. But as a receiver, I'm glad I walked him past 13u. Pitchers actually throw 90% over the plate instead of bouncing their pitches in the dirt 10' in front of the plate, they hold runners better so he has a chance to throw them out, and there appears to be less drama - more dugout fun and less 'can I play on this field' concerns. Curious about the experiences other catching families had on the big field jump. 

I don't know.  Around my parts, no 12u kid is going to be able to complete at 14u.  Can he throw to 2B on a line, no rainbow?  Otherwise, I'd be worried about some bad mechanical habits creeping in. 

I think it would depend on his size Golfman25. I know my son last year could have been competitive on the big field at age 12 in the Spring, but it was more fun to watch him tower over the other kids at Cooperstown. 

 

When he was called to the mound from 1B to pitch to the last few batters of the last inning there was an audible groan from the opposing team, looking at a 70mph pitch from a 50' mound had to have been scary!

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He's not even close to the other kid's in strength or size. So no, his throws to second aren't on a rope, his hits to the outfield aren't as deep, and it takes him longer than everyone to get down the line. But that's my point - with 17 kids on the feeder team, and all of them several years older than him, he's always in the lineup game day (3-11 with 6 walks), he's catching the championship games now (to the horror of some of the parents), and yes, he's even thrown out a few runners (a rope that bounces 30' in front of bag and probably gets there in 2.6 or so). So for those questioning if he is going to really compete at that level, no, of course not. Clearly he's doing ok behind the dish but that's why I have him there - to have a chance to slow the game down a bit earlier in his career.

Originally Posted by 4seamer:

He's not even close to the other kid's in strength or size. So no, his throws to second aren't on a rope, his hits to the outfield aren't as deep, and it takes him longer than everyone to get down the line. But that's my point - with 17 kids on the feeder team, and all of them several years older than him, he's always in the lineup game day (3-11 with 6 walks), he's catching the championship games now (to the horror of some of the parents), and yes, he's even thrown out a few runners (a rope that bounces 30' in front of bag and probably gets there in 2.6 or so). So for those questioning if he is going to really compete at that level, no, of course not. Clearly he's doing ok behind the dish but that's why I have him there - to have a chance to slow the game down a bit earlier in his career.

Being "always in the lineup game day", I'd say he's competing just fine.  And he's probably learning a lot playing at this level now.  GOOD for him! 

Originally Posted by 4seamer:

He's not even close to the other kid's in strength or size. So no, his throws to second aren't on a rope, his hits to the outfield aren't as deep, and it takes him longer than everyone to get down the line. But that's my point - with 17 kids on the feeder team, and all of them several years older than him, he's always in the lineup game day (3-11 with 6 walks), he's catching the championship games now (to the horror of some of the parents), and yes, he's even thrown out a few runners (a rope that bounces 30' in front of bag and probably gets there in 2.6 or so). So for those questioning if he is going to really compete at that level, no, of course not. Clearly he's doing ok behind the dish but that's why I have him there - to have a chance to slow the game down a bit earlier in his career.

I'm happy that you are happy 4seamer.  If you start to feel unhappy about your son's performance or his ability to truly hang with the older players, or his lack of playing time; I would encourage you to take a step back a year or so until the puberty stick evens out a few things.

I have a similar situation were I have two sons 11,13. We had to play fall baseball at 14u and only two players were 14. After a 20 game season playing at 60'6" mounds and 90' bases. I'll be coaching our 12u majors next spring and my 11 year old(he'll be 12) and the four other kids that also played on the fall team, that'll also be 12, look at the 12u field like a tee-ball park. All five I honestly don't know how other teams are going to make contact when they pitch. The confidence in pitching and almost effortlessly way they drill the ball over the fence is going to be nothing but fun. We live in a small town population less then 6,000 and I'm going to be coaching 4 kids who can hit over 65 on the gun. It seemed to all be linked to jumping up to regular size field's then back to LL fields. I've been coaching in some way since all these kids were 8 and look forward to a break out season next spring. Three years ago when I suggested to our board that this group should be groomed for the majors division when they turn 12  all thought I was dreaming. Now they see it takes years to build top competitive teams and it's very possible even with a pool of 35 kids to pick from.
Yeah I don't think you are following my point, as a small town we usually can't complete against 90% of the teams we play. This is the first year were trying to play at the highest level and it took years of work to get a good program on track. Maybe you think baseball is about winning and losing but for me it's away to teach young kids that anything is possible if you work for it. I've coached plenty of games were we were the recipient of teams running up scores against us to get a higher seed in some tournament. Can't control that, can't complain, but if you work hard in practice and believe that you can improve, over the course of years a program with 35 kids can take on programs with 300 kids trying to make the "majors" team. So when our little farm town takes the field against big suburban teams, win our lose we will complete and we will complete because the lesson of hard work, goal setting and teamwork will pay off. That's a lesson each kid will take away and be able to use their whole life and that's why I coach.

JT37, welcome to the site.  I read your bio.  Pretty cool that you have kids who love the game so much.  There is no doubt that it will be fun for them to hit a few out on the short field. However, you may want to consider a few things...

 

If they love the game as much as you say, they undoubtedly want to play at the next level and the next, etc.  They would benefit far more, in that regard, from playing on the big field this coming spring instead of wasting a year playing against competition that can't even touch their pitching.  If they are as good as it sounds, it probably wouldn't be to difficult to get the next league up (pony or whatever 13 ad up league is in your area) to allow them to play.

 

It really won't be all that much fun for them if the team is going to be as dominant as you indicate...  not for them and certainly not for the other teams.  If they have to play on the small field again, it may make sense to offer to "split up the dynasty" and spread these kids around so there will at least be competition among the teams.  Then the boys can play together in all-stars and go up against the leagues with more kids to draw from.   

 

I know these thoughts are not going to be well received when you first read them.  Try to think two years down the road... four years...   Also, try to think ahead as to how the 12 majors season will play out for everyone in the league.  Yup, dominating in a league where maybe you and the boys have taken some lumps in years past probably has quite a bit of appeal at first glance.  What would really be impressive, though, is if you could look beyond and see the big picture.

 

In any case, congrats on being able to enjoy kids who love playing!

Last edited by cabbagedad

PS - I didn't see your second post while I was typing.  If competing against bigger neighbor towns (I assume, during all-stars) is and has been a goal the boys (and coach) have been working toward the last few years, I would re-emphasize my second point.  If you split up the better players (sounds like you will have most of them), it will create at least a little better competitive environment for the regular league season and allow the better hitters and pitchers to battle against each other instead of being mostly on one team. 

Thank you for reply. It's not about revenge or winning by run rules. I'd take a .500 season with wins and losses decided by 3 or less runs. I do plan on playing in tournaments were we'd be playing up and anytime we may ahead I'd practice class be not running up the score. These kids took a lot of lumps and worked hard to become better. They have a legitimate chance to compete against some of the best programs in our state and win or lose they earned it. There's 3 divisions we can play in and we've decided to play in the toughest against the best programs in or state. Big picture is I don't what these kids to peek at 12 and our varsity team hasn't had a winning season in over 30 years. I'm just trying to build a program from the ground up. Following kids from when their 8 until their young men when thier seniors. State titles, tournament championships are great but more importantly is if you truly want to succeed in life, or any other goals you set, hard work over time, educating yourself about what you want to achieve and bouncing back from setbacks can help you become anything you want. Not complaining about how other teams are bigger or the have more kids to pick from. Almost anybody can succeed with smart hard work and true dedication. Baseball is something I understand and I try to use it to do more than make good ball players but good well rounded young men who understand how they can achieve what they want in life.

I do not like to talk in age groups.. its about competition. Competition drives you to be better... or not.  You see it in younger siblings that are driven to compete with the older ones. "Water will seek its own level" BUT the challenge must be presented.  More is gained by the team that is challenged, struggling to be .500; than the team that "blows the competion away".  

As a catcher, the first time I warmed up an outstanding pitcher, his first pitch hit me in the chest!!! That never happened again! 

Last edited by Coach Rick
That's partly my whole point, these kids have been beat up over and over then started making progress toward the point where they can now compete with towns tens times bigger with much more of a pool of players to pick from. I'm not anticipated we're going to blow out any teams but it'll be fun to watch them play and compete with the teams that always seem to be in the state finals in toughest division. That's the lesson, it doesn't matter how big or good your opponent is because you can only control how much you what something and if you want it bad enough you work, educate yourself, and go get it. You can't make excuses that we're to small and don't have enough standout players to play with the big boys. You work, practice and play. If we wanted to we could play with other teams from towns or size but with no disrespect we'd probably destroy them. Instead we feel we have a chance against the very best. My guess is that we finish slightly over .500.

Well, I guess I'm just really confused by the information. 

Earlier, you said " I'll be coaching our 12u majors next spring and my 11 year old(he'll be 12) and the four other kids that also played on the fall team, that'll also be 12, look at the 12u field like a tee-ball park. All five I honestly don't know how other teams are going to make contact when they pitch." 

 

And now you say "My guess is that we finish slightly over .500."

Last edited by cabbagedad
We wanted to play fall ball but needed some younger players to fill the rooster.  Because of some kids we had we had to play in a older division,14u. That meant four players plus my son had to play in big league field dimensions. Now when they pitch and hit they aren't looking at over 300' fences and 90' base paths. They also are pitching 12' closer to home. I was excited to watch them have a couple practices after the fall season on their LL field because they seem much more confident and over powering when they pitch.
Originally Posted by JT37:
We wanted to play fall ball but needed some younger players to fill the rooster.  Because of some kids we had we had to play in a older division,14u. That meant four players plus my son had to play in big league field dimensions. Now when they pitch and hit they aren't looking at over 300' fences and 90' base paths. They also are pitching 12' closer to home. I was excited to watch them have a couple practices after the fall season on their LL field because they seem much more confident and over powering when they pitch.

Hmm..  I have a 12u team planning on playing in a SNIT real soon. If you have 5 arms all throwing 65 plus - and they all throw strikes - I need to call you!    

Originally Posted by 4seamer:

13u.  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made. He's a catcher so maybe it would have been different if he played somewhere else - certainly if he pitched. But as a receiver, I'm glad I walked him past 13u. Pitchers actually throw 90% over the plate instead of bouncing their pitches in the dirt 10' in front of the plate, they hold runners better so he has a chance to throw them out, and there appears to be less drama - more dugout fun and less 'can I play on this field' concerns. Curious about the experiences other catching families had on the big field jump. 

Having 3 boys gone through league ball I think you would have been better off being patient and giving your son the ability to play to his potential.  My son never got to the big field until age the summer he almost turned 15. 

In our area league ball progressively moved the mound and base distances until freshman year of high school.  I just don't see the need to hurry the process especially if there is a lot of talent in the area. 

In our small town my son is the only one left from his league teams that is still playing and has the most chance of playing college baseball.  

There is just so much that goes on in a young man's life starting at age 14 through age 19 that you would be surprised at how many lose interest in the sport altogether by their senior year. 

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by 4seamer:

13u.  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made. He's a catcher so maybe it would have been different if he played somewhere else - certainly if he pitched. But as a receiver, I'm glad I walked him past 13u. Pitchers actually throw 90% over the plate instead of bouncing their pitches in the dirt 10' in front of the plate, they hold runners better so he has a chance to throw them out, and there appears to be less drama - more dugout fun and less 'can I play on this field' concerns. Curious about the experiences other catching families had on the big field jump. 

I don't know.  Around my parts, no 12u kid is going to be able to complete at 14u.  Can he throw to 2B on a line, no rainbow?  Otherwise, I'd be worried about some bad mechanical habits creeping in. 

I think it would depend on his size Golfman25. I know my son last year could have been competitive on the big field at age 12 in the Spring, but it was more fun to watch him tower over the other kids at Cooperstown. 

 

When he was called to the mound from 1B to pitch to the last few batters of the last inning there was an audible groan from the opposing team, looking at a 70mph pitch from a 50' mound had to have been scary!

 

Just keep the fire to complete burning in your son's heart.  Because most likely at age 17 or so there will be a few other kids that will be equal or better in talent and size.   

 

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

Yup, got all that.  Just don't understand how you can have five pitchers at the 12u level that will be confident and over-powering to the degree that other teams won't be able to make contact yet you will finish just slightly over .500.  Oh, well.  I'm sure it's just me.  Never mind.

 

 

It's not just you.  The story doesn't make sense. I think he is projecting way too much.  So they had experience on the "big" field and now they are too cool to play on the "little" field.  They are going to "dominate" with 65 mph pitching and big bats but only go .500. 

 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

Yup, got all that.  Just don't understand how you can have five pitchers at the 12u level that will be confident and over-powering to the degree that other teams won't be able to make contact yet you will finish just slightly over .500.  Oh, well.  I'm sure it's just me.  Never mind.

 

 

It's not just you.  The story doesn't make sense. I think he is projecting way too much.  So they had experience on the "big" field and now they are too cool to play on the "little" field.  They are going to "dominate" with 65 mph pitching and big bats but only go .500. 

 

 The bats have to work at the same time as the pitching and frankly at 12u you don't know which personality is going to show up!  My son pitched 70mph at 12u, but he had to deal with not only keeping his 12u brain on the game, and trying to figure out where the ump wanted it, but he also had two catchers that couldn't track his incoming pitches and forget it if it was in the dirt (blocking didn't really exist yet).

 

12u is really truly an any given day baseball event.  You have 200-250' fences, drop ten bats, and 50x70 fields...and a group of boys just discovering girls...if you look up inconsistent in the thesaurus it should say 12u baseball next to it.

No offense intended, but I've always wondered about the fact that every time someone is "playing up", their opponent is "playing down."
 
Why were 14u players--on the verge of high school--OK with playing in a league that included 11 yr-old opponents?  What was in it for them?
 
Originally Posted by 4seamer:

  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made.

I think travel ball has suffered significant "mission creep" so to speak.  Used to be (maybe 10+ years ago) only the really good players played travel ball.  These days, there are probably some locales and ages where 50% of kids are playing travel ball and there are lots of teams that, if not for the snazzy uniforms, look like your average park ball team.  So what is a good 12u team supposed to do?  They can either continue to beat up on some mediocre 12u teams or they can go compete against average 14u teams (who aren't really that good for 14u but can provide ample competition for the 12u team.)  I'm guessing only the really good teams get to use "elite" and "premiere" in their names - that must be the difference.

Originally Posted by freddy77:
No offense intended, but I've always wondered about the fact that every time someone is "playing up", their opponent is "playing down."
 
Why were 14u players--on the verge of high school--OK with playing in a league that included 11 yr-old opponents?  What was in it for them?
 
Originally Posted by 4seamer:

  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made.

You act like there is a choice.  If team X decided they needed whatever the 11 year old had to offer (likely speed), then team Y has no control over that.  I would suspect that the 11 year old would not be able to truly hang with the elite players in that age group.  That is where levels come in.  In GA there are Major/AAA/AA/A teams.  The AA teams do not play Major teams and the AAA teams don't play A teams.  If you have a high caliber player there is an appropriate spot for them.  Conversely, if you have that 14u kid that is still 5' tall and 95#'s there is a level for him as well.

 

P.S. I'm positive the poster meant to say 30" not 30'.  I've seen PG score of 10 catchers throw a bouncing throwdown 30 inches out so it's not unheard of.

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by freddy77:
No offense intended, but I've always wondered about the fact that every time someone is "playing up", their opponent is "playing down."
 
Why were 14u players--on the verge of high school--OK with playing in a league that included 11 yr-old opponents?  What was in it for them?
 
Originally Posted by 4seamer:

  He's still only 11 (12 in Nov) but went from the small field to the big field in August playing in 14u. Best decision I ever made.

You act like there is a choice.  If team X decided they needed whatever the 11 year old had to offer (likely speed), then team Y has no control over that.  I would suspect that the 11 year old would not be able to truly hang with the elite players in that age group.  That is where levels come in.  In GA there are Major/AAA/AA/A teams.  The AA teams do not play Major teams and the AAA teams don't play A teams.  If you have a high caliber player there is an appropriate spot for them.  Conversely, if you have that 14u kid that is still 5' tall and 95#'s there is a level for him as well.

 

P.S. I'm positive the poster meant to say 30" not 30'.  I've seen PG score of 10 catchers throw a bouncing throwdown 30 inches out so it's not unheard of.

Good point about levels. Even within the "Majors" teams there is a wide variation between, say, the top dozen or fifteen teams in the country (for example, the teams that have a realistic shot at winning the NYBC at 12U) and an average, or even a pretty good, Majors team.

My son played up at 10, 11 and 12......then played a second year at 12U so he could do some pitching.  Played 13U on a top level team.....then 14U.   We tried as much as we could to not play any 15U teams the next year.....tried to play exclusively 16U.  I think it worked well for him.  He also played "local" where he got to play against his own age every year.  He wasn't always the best player on his travel teams....but I really think the experience of playing against kids a year older helped him out a lot.  He's got a late April birthday....so in some cases, the kids were almost 2 full years older than him.  Never had any issues....even though we played the top tourneys in the Eastern half of the country.  If your son's skillset allows him to play up, I would definitely do it.

His HS feeder team (in Florida) is made up of kids I would guess are AA-type 14u players, with an exception or two. Being a 12u major player, and a good one to boot, it's not that hard to play beside them talent wise, although he's clearly not as strong.

 

He's doing well. He's gotten over the hardest part of being accepted by his peers.. they have all played together for years in Little League where he just waltzed in and took a spot which benched a player who normally played more. He's earned his respect by working hard right beside them. There was more parental anxiety than player issues.

 

I got the video of his tryout and his pop throws skipped on the clay about 5' from the bag. Looked farther from the stands. He can make the throw with an arch but we have him skip the ball off the dirt so he maintains his throws on a line.

 

As for one person's question about him being able to complete with elite 14u kids, OMG no.. I wouldn't have him out there if this was a 14u major Florida team. He's played with some of the better 13u major kids and that's about where the true separation beings. He guest plays with a 13u AAA travel ball team and he hangs pretty easy in those tournaments.

 

 

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