[QUOTE]Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Voodoo,
"Those are almost exactly the numbers I have from the MLBPA - and the %'s decreases I cited are correct. I'm confused by your post."
Guess I'm getting old quicker than I thought. I misunderstood what you were referring to. You're right the % of increase has decreased. However, the numbers still ain't bad. the real problem is with median salary. that had declined steadily with the bigger $$$ the star players are getting but that's who sells the tickets.
Voodoo;
Interesting topic. Just a couple of questions for you - I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent. He was asking approx. $9 mill in arbitration, Jays offering 6. They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap, and with Delgado's salary gone next year these numbers fit for the team - I assume that's why there is no signing bonus here either. I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks', I assume Landry works for them? Wouldn't they have looked over the numbers?
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
Interesting topic. Just a couple of questions for you - I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent. He was asking approx. $9 mill in arbitration, Jays offering 6. They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap, and with Delgado's salary gone next year these numbers fit for the team - I assume that's why there is no signing bonus here either. I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks', I assume Landry works for them? Wouldn't they have looked over the numbers?
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
Voodoo;
"I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent."
True he would have been a Free Agent after the '05 season.
"They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap"
Right I understand the backloading aspect. However my point was that he should have gotten $$$ in a Signing Bonus even if he spread it out or backloaded the Signing Bonus.
"with Delgado's salary gone next year"
Wouldn't bet the farm on that. First of all he likes it in Toronto & would rather stay there if they show any commitment to fielding a championship caliber team, Second they are saying they'd like to keep him, Third how do they push out the door their All-Time leader in EVERY meaningful offensive category for nothing in return? They might increase their payroll $4 - $6 million & pay Delgado what he's worth or dump Hinske's contract so they can keep Carlos & stay under their budget.
"I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks'"
He was with Randy & Alan until they left SFX & went back on their own. For whatever reason, he chose Landry & SFX over the Hendricks'. He'll be paying for that mistake for the next 4 years.
Voodoo;
"I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent."
True he would have been a Free Agent after the '05 season.
"They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap"
Right I understand the backloading aspect. However my point was that he should have gotten $$$ in a Signing Bonus even if he spread it out or backloaded the Signing Bonus.
"with Delgado's salary gone next year"
Wouldn't bet the farm on that. First of all he likes it in Toronto & would rather stay there if they show any commitment to fielding a championship caliber team, Second they are saying they'd like to keep him, Third how do they push out the door their All-Time leader in EVERY meaningful offensive category for nothing in return? They might increase their payroll $4 - $6 million & pay Delgado what he's worth or dump Hinske's contract so they can keep Carlos & stay under their budget.
"I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks'"
He was with Randy & Alan until they left SFX & went back on their own. For whatever reason, he chose Landry & SFX over the Hendricks'. He'll be paying for that mistake for the next 4 years.
CANADIANLEFTY:
Here's an interesting article re
elgado staying with the J's
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam040124/col_elliott-sun.html
Here's an interesting article re
elgado staying with the J'shttp://slam.canoe.ca/Slam040124/col_elliott-sun.html
Voodoo
It depends on who you listen to.
The sentiment appears to be 50/50 with regard to
whether he will stay or go...
The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?
I have personally heard both scenario's suggested.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
It depends on who you listen to.
The sentiment appears to be 50/50 with regard to
whether he will stay or go...
The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?
I have personally heard both scenario's suggested.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
Voodoo;
Thanks for the info. I think his contract isn't too bad if you look at the fact he doesn't have to go through arbitration this year or next, and he's being paid what he's worth for '06 and '07. However, I understand your point about the signing bonus, especially tax-wise - just makes no sense not to have it.
As far as Delgado, I was referring to his current deal being off the books, which is way out of whack for these times-so maybe they can re-sign him for $10 million or so next year, and stay in their "budget". Or maybe Ted Rogers will spend some of his $, instead of crying poor. Delgado isn't as well-respected by fans here as some former Jays, despite his numbers, most likely because they have been a poor to average team the last 10 years.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
Thanks for the info. I think his contract isn't too bad if you look at the fact he doesn't have to go through arbitration this year or next, and he's being paid what he's worth for '06 and '07. However, I understand your point about the signing bonus, especially tax-wise - just makes no sense not to have it.
As far as Delgado, I was referring to his current deal being off the books, which is way out of whack for these times-so maybe they can re-sign him for $10 million or so next year, and stay in their "budget". Or maybe Ted Rogers will spend some of his $, instead of crying poor. Delgado isn't as well-respected by fans here as some former Jays, despite his numbers, most likely because they have been a poor to average team the last 10 years.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
Voodoo,
Re: Your point about median decrease.
Do you see a realistic potential for a widening of the "haves and have-nots" mentality in the compensation game for individual players over the next few years?
Re: Your point about median decrease.
Do you see a realistic potential for a widening of the "haves and have-nots" mentality in the compensation game for individual players over the next few years?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
Voodoo
"The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?"
Commitment from ownership? Check the standings from last June. At that point the J's had a better record than the Marlins & their owner spent NADA to improve that team, in fact they dumped Shannon Stewart's salary for next to nothing just to field a cheaper team, not a better team.
The Marlins on the other hand picked up Helling, Conine & Urbina. That's the commitment I'm talking about.
Voodoo
"The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?"
Commitment from ownership? Check the standings from last June. At that point the J's had a better record than the Marlins & their owner spent NADA to improve that team, in fact they dumped Shannon Stewart's salary for next to nothing just to field a cheaper team, not a better team.
The Marlins on the other hand picked up Helling, Conine & Urbina. That's the commitment I'm talking about.
"Delgado isn't as well-respected by fans here as some former Jays, despite his numbers, most likely because they have been a poor to average team the last 10 years."
Poor choice by J's fans. He's a much better player than anyone they've had befor. The numbers don't lie. If anything he should be credited for doing so well on poor teams as well as taking less money to stay in Toronto in 2000 than he would have gotten as a Free Agent.
The chances of him staying for $10 million are as good as you being elected Miss Ontario.
Poor choice by J's fans. He's a much better player than anyone they've had befor. The numbers don't lie. If anything he should be credited for doing so well on poor teams as well as taking less money to stay in Toronto in 2000 than he would have gotten as a Free Agent.
The chances of him staying for $10 million are as good as you being elected Miss Ontario.
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Voodoo,
Re: Your point about median decrease.
Do you see a realistic potential for a widening of the "haves and have-nots" mentality in the compensation game for individual players over the next few years?
I think it's almost unavoidable.
VooDoo
Please bear with me:
I am trying to understand the difference in club philosophy...
Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman
The Jays need pitching to go along with their 2nd highest team BA.....They picked up Lilly, Hentgen and Batista.
Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great.
If not...doesn't the team suffer a competitive disadvantage...reducing the long-term flexibility of acquiring "right-now" needs?
How long do you extend him?
Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?
He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?
Do you pay him top dollar to DH?
Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?
Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?
If you can shed some light.....
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
Please bear with me:
I am trying to understand the difference in club philosophy...
Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman
The Jays need pitching to go along with their 2nd highest team BA.....They picked up Lilly, Hentgen and Batista.
Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great.
If not...doesn't the team suffer a competitive disadvantage...reducing the long-term flexibility of acquiring "right-now" needs?
How long do you extend him?
Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?
He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?
Do you pay him top dollar to DH?
Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?
Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?
If you can shed some light.....
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
VooDoo
"Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman"
Agreed. However there was that whole World Series thing.
"Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great."
Based on his recent production & most important, his character & work ethic, I see no reason to expect a precipitous decline in performance.
"How long do you extend him?"
3-5 years IMO.
"Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?"
Honestly, I think they're just trying to field the cheapest 3rd place team they can until their prospects develop... IF they develop.
"He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?"
I doubt it. Why should he? He's produced at the top level of MLB, shouldn't he deserve to be paid the same way?
"Do you pay him top dollar to DH?"
Don't agree that he'll just DH. He'll continue to be adequate @ 1B. Would you rather have JT Snow's defense & his 51 RBI's?
"Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?"
Can't compare the two players. Hinske has only had 1 good year. J's are better off with Delgado & dumping Hinske if they're too cheap to increase the budget.
"Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?"
Rules are made to be broken. If 27 was the end, how do you account for Bonds? Clemens? etc.
VooDoo
"Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman"
Agreed. However there was that whole World Series thing.
"Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great."
Based on his recent production & most important, his character & work ethic, I see no reason to expect a precipitous decline in performance.
"How long do you extend him?"
3-5 years IMO.
"Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?"
Honestly, I think they're just trying to field the cheapest 3rd place team they can until their prospects develop... IF they develop.
"He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?"
I doubt it. Why should he? He's produced at the top level of MLB, shouldn't he deserve to be paid the same way?
"Do you pay him top dollar to DH?"
Don't agree that he'll just DH. He'll continue to be adequate @ 1B. Would you rather have JT Snow's defense & his 51 RBI's?
"Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?"
Can't compare the two players. Hinske has only had 1 good year. J's are better off with Delgado & dumping Hinske if they're too cheap to increase the budget.
"Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?"
Rules are made to be broken. If 27 was the end, how do you account for Bonds? Clemens? etc.
quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile:
The chances of him staying for $10 million are as good as you being elected Miss Ontario.
lol... thanks alot!
What do you think he would get for 3-4 years in today's market? Right now he's being paid approx 1/3 of the payroll.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
"What do you think he would get for 3-4 years in today's market? Right now he's being paid approx 1/3 of the payroll."
Considering Guerrero got 5 years @ $14 million/year & Delgado has better numbers, doesn't have an uninsureable bad back, is a better presence in the community etc. my guess is he'll be able to get 3-4 years @ what he's currently making $18.5 million.
"What do you think he would get for 3-4 years in today's market? Right now he's being paid approx 1/3 of the payroll."
Considering Guerrero got 5 years @ $14 million/year & Delgado has better numbers, doesn't have an uninsureable bad back, is a better presence in the community etc. my guess is he'll be able to get 3-4 years @ what he's currently making $18.5 million.
I would be floored if he gets
that kind of money, especially
from the Jays. He has said before
he has the money and now it's time to win.
We will have to wait and see.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
that kind of money, especially
from the Jays. He has said before
he has the money and now it's time to win.
We will have to wait and see.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
"I would be floored if he gets
that kind of money, expecially
from the Jays."
Nobody thought he'd get what his present deal pays him either. Hope you land softly.
"I would be floored if he gets
that kind of money, expecially
from the Jays."
Nobody thought he'd get what his present deal pays him either. Hope you land softly.
VooDoo
I am light on my feet
or as my husband says: "light in the loafers"
Who was the GM who made that last deal with
Carlos?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
I am light on my feet
or as my husband says: "light in the loafers"
Who was the GM who made that last deal with
Carlos?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
quote:
Originally posted by Chill:
VooDoo
"Who was the GM who made that last deal with
Carlos?"
Gord Ash(currently Asst. G.M. in Milwaukee) was the GM @ the time.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
voOdoo,
Do you know where I can find the signing bonuses for rounds 10-20 from years past? I've found 1-10, but am missing those. Any help would be appreciated.
Do you know where I can find the signing bonuses for rounds 10-20 from years past? I've found 1-10, but am missing those. Any help would be appreciated.
quote:
Originally posted by MrOctober:
voOdoo,
Do you know where I can find the signing bonuses for rounds 10-20 from years past? I've found 1-10, but am missing those. Any help would be appreciated.
Only source I can think of is Baseball America. I believe they've published a draft almanac which may have the info you're looking for.
VC,
I am curious as to why/how you know so much about Delgado.
I am curious as to why/how you know so much about Delgado.
quote:
Originally posted by baseonballs50:
VC,
I am curious as to why/how you know so much about Delgado.
I have to confess. I am his secret love child from an ilicit relationship with Barbara Bush during Spring Training many years ago.
My half Brother in the White House refuses to acknowledge me so I take out my frustration posting on different internet sites.
Only you know this so please keep it between us.
VC,
Your weird sense of humor and scarcasm breeds familiarity, I will be sure to keep it between us.
Your weird sense of humor and scarcasm breeds familiarity, I will be sure to keep it between us.
baseonballs
If you have interest in CDelgado
I can send you a PT with a link
Very informative...
No sarcasm.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
If you have interest in CDelgado
I can send you a PT with a link
Very informative...
No sarcasm.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
Chill,
Thank you very much for your help, with no sarcasm. I have all the info I need on Delgado from his agent.
Thank you very much for your help, with no sarcasm. I have all the info I need on Delgado from his agent.
voodoo,
How many years of experience do you have in the agent business as it relates to the draft?
Also, based on your experience, are some clubs better/worse as far as negotiations go for a draft pick?
Lastly, what type of work do you do prior to the draft as far as trying to improve a player of your's standing? Just curious.
How many years of experience do you have in the agent business as it relates to the draft?
Also, based on your experience, are some clubs better/worse as far as negotiations go for a draft pick?
Lastly, what type of work do you do prior to the draft as far as trying to improve a player of your's standing? Just curious.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrOctober:
voodoo,
"How many years of experience do you have in the agent business as it relates to the draft?"
>20
"Also, based on your experience, are some clubs better/worse as far as negotiations go for a draft pick?"
Yes some teams will make more of an effort to get players signed reasonably quick for "market value" & into rookie league. Other teams will wait to see the direction of the market & react to it not wanting to "set the bar". Still others will flat out say that another team would give a player "x" dollars to sign but our organization doesn't have those kind of dollars to work with.
"Lastly, what type of work do you do prior to the draft as far as trying to improve a player of your's standing? Just curious."
Taking for granted you're talking about a premium player, my goal is to try to get him to the team with the best player development program. For a player who is a mid-level pick, there isn't much I can do other than inform their family what their options are & what not to say to scouts, cross checkers etc.
Bear in mind, as I've stated in previous posts, it is my firm belief that the most important aspect of the draft is to end up with a team that has a good player development program. Same as if you're kid is a potential Dr., you'd want him to go to a college with a good track record of producing graduates that go to good Med. Schools.
voodoo,
"How many years of experience do you have in the agent business as it relates to the draft?"
>20
"Also, based on your experience, are some clubs better/worse as far as negotiations go for a draft pick?"
Yes some teams will make more of an effort to get players signed reasonably quick for "market value" & into rookie league. Other teams will wait to see the direction of the market & react to it not wanting to "set the bar". Still others will flat out say that another team would give a player "x" dollars to sign but our organization doesn't have those kind of dollars to work with.
"Lastly, what type of work do you do prior to the draft as far as trying to improve a player of your's standing? Just curious."
Taking for granted you're talking about a premium player, my goal is to try to get him to the team with the best player development program. For a player who is a mid-level pick, there isn't much I can do other than inform their family what their options are & what not to say to scouts, cross checkers etc.
Bear in mind, as I've stated in previous posts, it is my firm belief that the most important aspect of the draft is to end up with a team that has a good player development program. Same as if you're kid is a potential Dr., you'd want him to go to a college with a good track record of producing graduates that go to good Med. Schools.
voodoo - what's your take on the Royals & how they handled their picks last yr after the first few rounds, the effect it had last yr, this yr and in the future??
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bee:
vodoo - what's your take on the Royals & how they handled their picks last yr after the first few rounds, the effect it had last yr, this yr and in the future??
It showed that the Royals priorities had changed from building the best Minor League system to building the best that fit their budget which was slashed by ownership right before the draft.
vodoo - what's your take on the Royals & how they handled their picks last yr after the first few rounds, the effect it had last yr, this yr and in the future??
It showed that the Royals priorities had changed from building the best Minor League system to building the best that fit their budget which was slashed by ownership right before the draft.
slashed draft budget = slashed commitment to player development??
and does it continue this yr??
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
and does it continue this yr??
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
What will the commissioners office present for this years slotted amounts? Will they have an increase over last year, stay the same, or decrease? If adjusted upward what % increase will it be and if moved down what justification could be presented?
quote:
Originally posted by PCX:
What will the commissioners office present for this years slotted amounts? Will they have an increase over last year, stay the same, or decrease? If adjusted upward what % increase will it be and if moved down what justification could be presented?
They will try to continue the trend of Bonuses decreasing. If it were up to Kenesaw "Molehill" Selig, you would have to pay for the privilege of playing professional baseball.
voodoo,
Would love to hear your take on the Mets wonderful winter adventure.
Would love to hear your take on the Mets wonderful winter adventure.
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:
voodoo,
Would love to hear your take on the Mets wonderful winter adventure.
Short answer...Think their Major League team has improved(that's not setting the bar high). Still won't contend though.
Their Minor League/Player Development system is still a black hole.
Bottom line, if it were my kid, I'd rather see him drafted by another organization.
Voodoochile
While we are asking, could you comment on the most publicized trade that never happened? Is the Manny for Arod trade dead and buried, or merely in a deep sleep? It appeared that Gene Orza/Tom Hicks/Larry L. killed the deal. I can't tell who is mostly responsible. Inquiring Red Sox fans wanna know.
While we are asking, could you comment on the most publicized trade that never happened? Is the Manny for Arod trade dead and buried, or merely in a deep sleep? It appeared that Gene Orza/Tom Hicks/Larry L. killed the deal. I can't tell who is mostly responsible. Inquiring Red Sox fans wanna know.
quote:
Originally posted by Dad04:
Voodoochile
While we are asking, could you comment on the most publicized trade that never happened? Is the Manny for Arod trade dead and buried, or merely in a deep sleep? It appeared that Gene Orza/Tom Hicks/Larry L. killed the deal. I can't tell who is mostly responsible. Inquiring Red Sox fans wanna know.
Strictly my 2 centavos:
1)Think Manny & ARod got the contracts they & their Agents asked for... nobody forced them to sign so they should shut up & honor their deals. If the "shoe was on the other foot" & the team had tried to change the terms & conditions, they would have howled like a scalded dog.
2) Think/hope the deal is dead as it is a distraction to all players on both teams. Eventually, they have to play Baseball so the less said the better.
3)The MLBPA opposed the deal out of concern that it would result in NFL type deals where players are signed to deals & then coerced into lowering their salaries so they don't get cut. Granted MLB deals are guaranteed but the MLB according to what their reps told me considers this a "slippery slope" situation.
Voodoo
Thanks. I agree as an outsider its a potential slippery slope but was hoping for ARod and Maggs switched out for Nomar and Manny, if possible.
Hoping for the locker room to get back to baseball and the Red Sox to finally get by the Yanks this time. I like their chances.
http://www.ragincajuns.com/Baseball/baseball.htm
Thanks. I agree as an outsider its a potential slippery slope but was hoping for ARod and Maggs switched out for Nomar and Manny, if possible.
Hoping for the locker room to get back to baseball and the Red Sox to finally get by the Yanks this time. I like their chances.
http://www.ragincajuns.com/Baseball/baseball.htm
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dad04:
I like their chances.
Me 2.
I like their chances.
Me 2.
Dad04
This is the year, right??
Mr & Mrs. Hamm are ready.......jk
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
This is the year, right??
Mr & Mrs. Hamm are ready.......jk
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
